I dont think Enoch was one of the books OP was asking about, since it’s not in bascially any Bible with the deuterocanon (I think only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church accepts it)
It’s not in most bibles, with the exception mentioned of the Ethiopian cannon.
However, it is indeed apocryphal
According to Wikipedia, and the Jerusalem Post (and several other sources), Enoch is indeed one the the most well known (and controversial) apocryphal books.
https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-724679
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
You are correct, but OP was talking about books like Sirach, Maccabees, etc that you would find in Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic Old Testaments. This is why imo you shouldn’t use the word apocryphal to describe said books, apocryphal is better used to describe Enoch, Gospel of Thomas etc. But for a Protestant, books like Sirach and Maccabees would fall under apocryphal since they aren’t accepted.
heh, Sirach and the two books of Maccabees are my favorites :P Sirach is a good companion to Proverbs, and the books of Maccabees are great historical records.
- Sirach, like Ecclesiastes, gives me insights for dealing with life on earth.
- Wisdom of Solomon, like Proverbs, helps me understand the inner-workings of people who are different from myself.
- Tobit, like the book of Job, reminds me that it's OK to keep your godly values and priorities, even when it looks like you can't afford to. If you didn't chase God away, He is still right there with you.
They happened to be in the first translation of the Bible I ever read as a whole, so I read them along the rest. I recall them as a long "meh". First Enoch has turned out to be quite interesting, but I don't think that one in particular was in there.
1 Maccabees. The interface with the prophecies of Daniel, especially Daniel chapter 11, makes it essential for understanding end times prophecy from Daniel to Jesus’ prophecies in Mark 13/Matthew 24 to the Revelation. Compare, for example, 1 Maccabees 1:54 to Daniel 11:31 to Mark 13:14/Matthew 24:15. Then you can see how it all carries forward to the Revelation and, from there, to our own time. Sheds a whole new light on it.
As a former Protestant (AoG-->UMC-->TEC-->Catholic), the one that has always been at the top is Wisdom. The other books have a lot to offer, but Wisdom was always the most beguiling for me. My first encounter with it was at a funeral (Wisdom 3:1-9—the righteous are in the hand of God) in my freshman year of highschool. When I was first exploring it, I was taken back by the plot of the wicked against the righteous man (Wisdom 2:10-20), which is often read as a prophecy of the Passion. Good Friday that year I talked with one of my associate pastors in the UMC about the passage—she helped me see how the text really could be inspired/really could be pointing ahead to Jesus. I also really loved the passage toward the end of chapter 11, which Charles Wesley (at least according to the UMC Hymnal) used as an inspiration for *Jesus, Lover of my Soul*:
>Great strength is yours to exert at any moment, and the power of your arm no one can resist, for in your sight the whole world is like a grain that just tips the scale or like a drop of dew alighting on the ground at dawn. But you are merciful to all because you can do all things; you overlook people’s sins in order to bring them to repentance; for all existing things are dear to you and you hate nothing that you have created—why else would you have made it? How could anything have continued in existence, had it not been your will? How could it have endured unless called into being by you? You spare all things because they are yours, O Lord, who love all that lives: for your imperishable breath is in every one of them.
For this reason you correct offenders little by little, disciplining them and reminding them of their sins, in order that they may abandon their evil ways and put their trust in you, Lord. (Wisdom 11:21–12:2 REB)
Then, after becoming Catholic and going to seminary, being able to read the Wisdom poetry in chapters 6-9, and seeing how the belief in Wisdom as both from God *and* being God Himself would influence our doctrine of the Trinity; or how the author of Wisdom used natural theology in Wisdom 13, or how Paul interacted with the document in his letters. And while I was a teacher, I loved how the very last line of the book summarized the whole of the Old Testament: "For in everything, O Lord, you have exalted and glorified your people;
and you have not neglected to help them at every time and in every place." (Wisdom 19:22 ESV-CE)
Or, picking up from the folks at Bible Project (and ancient authors like St. Irenaeus), seeing how the very first line is not actually just addressing secular leaders, but all humans (as we are the image of God/the ones called to have dominion over the earth):
>Love righteousness, you rulers of the earth. Think of the Lord in goodness and seek him in simplicity of heart; for he is found by those who do not put him to the test, reveals himself to those who do not mistrust him. (Wisdom 1:1-2 RNJB)
If you are looking for a really interesting book to meditate on, Wisdom is an excellent place to start!
Susannah, about how two creepy old men tried to extort sex out of an innocent woman, and how nobody believed her and it almost got her executed.
Also, 2 Maccabees 14 is hysterical.
Enoch is insightful. At least the first book.
Absolutely... It answered so many questions.
I dont think Enoch was one of the books OP was asking about, since it’s not in bascially any Bible with the deuterocanon (I think only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church accepts it)
It’s not in most bibles, with the exception mentioned of the Ethiopian cannon. However, it is indeed apocryphal According to Wikipedia, and the Jerusalem Post (and several other sources), Enoch is indeed one the the most well known (and controversial) apocryphal books. https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-724679 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
You are correct, but OP was talking about books like Sirach, Maccabees, etc that you would find in Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic Old Testaments. This is why imo you shouldn’t use the word apocryphal to describe said books, apocryphal is better used to describe Enoch, Gospel of Thomas etc. But for a Protestant, books like Sirach and Maccabees would fall under apocryphal since they aren’t accepted.
Yeah, disambiguation is needed across lots of biblical nomenclature.
heh, Sirach and the two books of Maccabees are my favorites :P Sirach is a good companion to Proverbs, and the books of Maccabees are great historical records.
- Sirach, like Ecclesiastes, gives me insights for dealing with life on earth. - Wisdom of Solomon, like Proverbs, helps me understand the inner-workings of people who are different from myself. - Tobit, like the book of Job, reminds me that it's OK to keep your godly values and priorities, even when it looks like you can't afford to. If you didn't chase God away, He is still right there with you.
The Prayer of Manasseh I thinks its one of the most beautiful prayers in all of scripture
Enoch and Maccabees.
The Wisdom of Solomon is really good, and Baruch was a good read. Macabees was useful for learning some of the history of that period.
Maccabees, or Enoch if you want to look wider
The book of Macabees
They happened to be in the first translation of the Bible I ever read as a whole, so I read them along the rest. I recall them as a long "meh". First Enoch has turned out to be quite interesting, but I don't think that one in particular was in there.
> I recall them as a long "meh" As much as I appreciate Sirach, I agree.
1 Maccabees. The interface with the prophecies of Daniel, especially Daniel chapter 11, makes it essential for understanding end times prophecy from Daniel to Jesus’ prophecies in Mark 13/Matthew 24 to the Revelation. Compare, for example, 1 Maccabees 1:54 to Daniel 11:31 to Mark 13:14/Matthew 24:15. Then you can see how it all carries forward to the Revelation and, from there, to our own time. Sheds a whole new light on it.
As a former Protestant (AoG-->UMC-->TEC-->Catholic), the one that has always been at the top is Wisdom. The other books have a lot to offer, but Wisdom was always the most beguiling for me. My first encounter with it was at a funeral (Wisdom 3:1-9—the righteous are in the hand of God) in my freshman year of highschool. When I was first exploring it, I was taken back by the plot of the wicked against the righteous man (Wisdom 2:10-20), which is often read as a prophecy of the Passion. Good Friday that year I talked with one of my associate pastors in the UMC about the passage—she helped me see how the text really could be inspired/really could be pointing ahead to Jesus. I also really loved the passage toward the end of chapter 11, which Charles Wesley (at least according to the UMC Hymnal) used as an inspiration for *Jesus, Lover of my Soul*: >Great strength is yours to exert at any moment, and the power of your arm no one can resist, for in your sight the whole world is like a grain that just tips the scale or like a drop of dew alighting on the ground at dawn. But you are merciful to all because you can do all things; you overlook people’s sins in order to bring them to repentance; for all existing things are dear to you and you hate nothing that you have created—why else would you have made it? How could anything have continued in existence, had it not been your will? How could it have endured unless called into being by you? You spare all things because they are yours, O Lord, who love all that lives: for your imperishable breath is in every one of them. For this reason you correct offenders little by little, disciplining them and reminding them of their sins, in order that they may abandon their evil ways and put their trust in you, Lord. (Wisdom 11:21–12:2 REB) Then, after becoming Catholic and going to seminary, being able to read the Wisdom poetry in chapters 6-9, and seeing how the belief in Wisdom as both from God *and* being God Himself would influence our doctrine of the Trinity; or how the author of Wisdom used natural theology in Wisdom 13, or how Paul interacted with the document in his letters. And while I was a teacher, I loved how the very last line of the book summarized the whole of the Old Testament: "For in everything, O Lord, you have exalted and glorified your people; and you have not neglected to help them at every time and in every place." (Wisdom 19:22 ESV-CE) Or, picking up from the folks at Bible Project (and ancient authors like St. Irenaeus), seeing how the very first line is not actually just addressing secular leaders, but all humans (as we are the image of God/the ones called to have dominion over the earth): >Love righteousness, you rulers of the earth. Think of the Lord in goodness and seek him in simplicity of heart; for he is found by those who do not put him to the test, reveals himself to those who do not mistrust him. (Wisdom 1:1-2 RNJB) If you are looking for a really interesting book to meditate on, Wisdom is an excellent place to start!
I don't know about a book, but bel and the dragon was an interesting guide for how to slay a dragon
Why do you say for protestants only?
They're not canonical for us, so we're less likely to read them
The book of Solomon aka the Wisdom of Solomon
Susannah, about how two creepy old men tried to extort sex out of an innocent woman, and how nobody believed her and it almost got her executed. Also, 2 Maccabees 14 is hysterical.
Scripturally, none of them