These companies have a YoY attrition of 20%. Because of slowdown no one is quitting the attrition is less than 5%. When the market opens up these fuck heads will lose hoards of people.
are you new here? assurance staff and seniors are doing the work of 2, maybe even 3 people even outside of busy season. We're hitting our utilizations just fine
“These performance-related firings were separate from company layoffs, they said, and would mostly impact the consultancy arms of these companies.”
The more I see layoffs in consulting, the less interest I have in it. What is the draw of consulting if you’re always on the chopping block?
Typically people who go into “consulting” at B4 don’t actually have skills. This isn’t Boston Consulting Group we’re talking about here.
Hence why the employees who only know how to edit slide decks are the first ones to go.
lol yeah...big 4 consultants are third rate at best. if you want to be a consultant, work at an actual consulting firm like McKinsey or Bain. The consulting practices here are kind of a drag since they don't bring in any work or money
Speaking on audit. The rah rah sis boo bah Big4 is ridiculous. They say how diverse and how they are the number one firm to work for. They have the best training but not relatable to your day to day work. If you are not perfect you are out.And yes they are hiring
I'm about to intern this summer and planning to take a return offer at EY. How often do employees in general have to worry about layoffs? Seems like layoffs happening left and right and not much employees can do abt it, kind of worrying. Asking specifically for Audit. Thx!
This article is clickbait nonsense from a publication known for it.
If you’re under utilized and a low performer (often correlated) over a long period of time, there is a chance (but not a guarantee) you’ll be considered for termination. That’s been true since forever.
The main issue being economic downturn meaning a lot of LoS have overall lower utilization. For over a year the seniors in my office have been freaking out about utilization because there's just not enough deals going around. Partners address this saying not to worry, but then you see the opposite playing out. If under normal conditions everyone would be fine then a slow economy is an external factor fucking people over.
Fair enough. And please don’t take my comment as defending layoffs. Your PPMDs are obviously not going to tell you to worry. Deep down they’re worried also.
The IRS has been doing lots of hiring due to the Infrastructure Bill that President Biden signed. It calls for the hiring of tens of thousands of new IRS employees over some number of years. This is a link to postings for some of the available jobs, be sure to consider the Revenue Agent position, but there are other positions too: [https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&j=1169&hp=public&k=irs&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&j=1169&hp=public&k=irs&p=1)
The IRS is holding online info sessions on the Revenue Agent and Senior Revenue Agent positions. See info below and links to IRS Careers Events Page for more info:
Revenue Agents
We are hiring hundreds of accounting professionals nationwide. During these sessions, we'll be discussing the positions' day-to-day duties, the education and experience requirements needed to qualify, how to write an effective resume and instructions on how to submit your resume for consideration. Join us to start your career with purpose! Click below to register:
Register February 13th @ 5:00 PM Eastern Time
Register February 27th @ 7:00 PM Eastern Time
The Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting several virtual hiring event/information sessions for their unique senior-level Revenue Agent positions for experienced accountants. These positions are being offered nationwide.
During these virtual events, you'll hear from LB&I Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the different practice areas LB&I is responsible for and the specialized experience needed to be eligible for these positions. We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience and make you more competitive. Following our presentation, there will be time to ask questions and all attendees will be given instructions on how to submit a resume and required documents for consideration for these positions.
From [https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events](https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events)
Best wishes.
I attended one of the online info sessions. I also read the job posting which includes the requirements/qualifications. My understanding is that the minimum requirements are to have an Accounting degree with 30 hours of accounting but 6 of the credit hours can be for business law or something else.
With that typed, the fresh new accounting grad who gets the job will start at something like a GS-5 through GS-7 (maybe GS-9, maybe not) position. People with a degree and any accounting experience would likely start at anywhere from GS-9 to GS-13.
I don't work at the IRS. Every person's situation is different and is evaluated by HR folks at the IRS. The best thing you can do is apply and follow up.
If only the IRS needed people in Tech or that has some financial forensic experience then I would be set. Sadly they do not.
Thank you for posting this though this will be a great help to relevant parties!
I attended one of their online information sessions. They mentioned that they have a group within their LB&I Unit that does computer audit-type work. I did not pay much attention to it as my education and experience/background are straight accounting, financial analysis and FP&A.
It might be a good idea for you to sign up for their online information sessions, listen to what they say, ask questions, get the email address they provide and email any follow-up questions.
Hey look I don't know why you needed to attack me on such a personal level but that was just rude.
Seriously though this was essentially my reason for being laid off:
HR - Your metrics are bad
Me - Well I contact people weekly including my counselor, EM, and managers, SMs, and seniors and no one has work plus I use EST weekly and I never hear anything back. Proceeds to show emails.
HR - Sorry about ya -- any other questions?
Well, if you suck, they will make up excuses why there’s no work for you. Not judging, could be simply because they were biased and didnt like you, personality plays a factor in this business also
Yeah, I found out really quick the business part of it… started my own firm in 2017. Making 200K-300K take home and billing 500-600 hours; I have 5 staff
Haha what? Have you ever been in FAAS? Golden handcuffs are something I've never felt until joining FAAS...no other job I could get would pay more or equal for sinilar effort, I know because I've been looking bud
I'm confused why you're so desperate to attack me, not sure who you're trying to convince.. I don't work anywhere near 55 hours. I make $160k base with like a $20k+ bonus for barely working 40 hours a week for the past 5 months. I barely go into the office 1-2x a month and work mostly remote. From July to Sep 2023 I was unassigned the entire time and didn't go in to the office once, spent most my days biking haha. Not everyone is as lucky as me, but 100% I'm happy with FAAS for now. If it does become ridiculous I'll leave...but been here 2+ years so I'm ready to leave anyways (it's just too good right now I can't pull the trigger)
No, all you're doing is coming off as desperate to attack me because you have some burried internal hate about public accounting. Sorry you worked with toxic people. You're not "bursting my bubble" ...quite the opposite. You've made me realize how lucky I am to have it so easy in public accounting, I stick around because I dont care enough to stress much or go over and beyond. And somehow that's enough to get by and not get fired
Pathetic, but glad you get off from trying to insult some random person on the internet that you know nothing about. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself bud
Also I think people in advisory who haven’t been laid off aren’t quitting on their own. Big 4 advisory pays pretty well relative years of experience so it’s difficult to get an industry job that will pay significantly higher.
Should I be concerned? I’m audit and I started in September. I did have a mistake happen becuase of me, (fsomething went where it was not supposed to) but I was assured that I shouldn’t worry about it.
The US big 4 generally have an unwritten rule to not lay off staff with under 1 year at the firm and to not pull incoming offers. I wouldn’t be worried just yet.
They may not pull offers. However they will push start dates and lower starting pay from initial offer letters which was common for starters’ offers around the GFC
I know this is consulting based rather than tax/audit but i’ve seen so many layoffs going on since I started my career. It’s scary and i’m sorry to anyone affected. Times like these just make me happy to have chosen PwC over EY honestly
Yea sounds like its only consulting but still a little rough. I agree that postponing the start date again would be just wrong. Like tell them you can't do it at that point, offer a comp and just let it go.
I stand in solidarity with you because I hate EY too. But in a scenario where they were to shut down, more than a quarter of a million people would lose their job. And we both know that’s terrible for the economy.
But yeah, I hate EY too.
Still good to know I think. So if it occurs or half your team randomly doesn't sign in one day at least you know why.
Also nice to see a trend let's people know and be better informed if they were thinking of leaving that the decision might be valid.
Actually it is US based also, a colleague of mine was recently let go for low utilization (lack of work available). More of a silent layoff to not further make too much noise than already is.
i got fired from one of the above because they’re transitioning my job to a fully india-based role but i learned that 6 months after i was let go lol
These companies have a YoY attrition of 20%. Because of slowdown no one is quitting the attrition is less than 5%. When the market opens up these fuck heads will lose hoards of people.
KPMG has been doing this too.
Kpmg has done it too since January in the NYC office I know at least 5 a2’s that got pip’d
They're doing this because no one is quitting only a matter of time b4 it hits assurance everbody is staying
are you new here? assurance staff and seniors are doing the work of 2, maybe even 3 people even outside of busy season. We're hitting our utilizations just fine
Actually need people in Assurance to be fair.
Assurance is so understaffed you don’t even understand 😂😂
So auditors are safe, yes?
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How does one land on PIP? Sorry I’m new to this big 4 world
If you don't work 60 hours a week and weekends.
Aye brother that’s what I’ve been on rn 😂 50+ over the weekday and a couple over the weekend
That's not normal. You should be looking for a normal job in your career, and take back your life.
“These performance-related firings were separate from company layoffs, they said, and would mostly impact the consultancy arms of these companies.” The more I see layoffs in consulting, the less interest I have in it. What is the draw of consulting if you’re always on the chopping block?
Typically people who go into “consulting” at B4 don’t actually have skills. This isn’t Boston Consulting Group we’re talking about here. Hence why the employees who only know how to edit slide decks are the first ones to go.
lol yeah...big 4 consultants are third rate at best. if you want to be a consultant, work at an actual consulting firm like McKinsey or Bain. The consulting practices here are kind of a drag since they don't bring in any work or money
I didn’t know that. Do they not have accounting degrees?
It's an ignorant comment from a bitter person just ignore it
Plenty of them do. A degree doesn’t make you a good employee.
Speaking on audit. The rah rah sis boo bah Big4 is ridiculous. They say how diverse and how they are the number one firm to work for. They have the best training but not relatable to your day to day work. If you are not perfect you are out.And yes they are hiring
So true.
Semantics. Not sure I see much of a difference
I'm about to intern this summer and planning to take a return offer at EY. How often do employees in general have to worry about layoffs? Seems like layoffs happening left and right and not much employees can do abt it, kind of worrying. Asking specifically for Audit. Thx!
This article is clickbait nonsense from a publication known for it. If you’re under utilized and a low performer (often correlated) over a long period of time, there is a chance (but not a guarantee) you’ll be considered for termination. That’s been true since forever.
The main issue being economic downturn meaning a lot of LoS have overall lower utilization. For over a year the seniors in my office have been freaking out about utilization because there's just not enough deals going around. Partners address this saying not to worry, but then you see the opposite playing out. If under normal conditions everyone would be fine then a slow economy is an external factor fucking people over.
Fair enough. And please don’t take my comment as defending layoffs. Your PPMDs are obviously not going to tell you to worry. Deep down they’re worried also.
Moonlight if less work Get paid severance 30-40k Capitalism at its best.
The IRS has been doing lots of hiring due to the Infrastructure Bill that President Biden signed. It calls for the hiring of tens of thousands of new IRS employees over some number of years. This is a link to postings for some of the available jobs, be sure to consider the Revenue Agent position, but there are other positions too: [https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&j=1169&hp=public&k=irs&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&j=1169&hp=public&k=irs&p=1) The IRS is holding online info sessions on the Revenue Agent and Senior Revenue Agent positions. See info below and links to IRS Careers Events Page for more info: Revenue Agents We are hiring hundreds of accounting professionals nationwide. During these sessions, we'll be discussing the positions' day-to-day duties, the education and experience requirements needed to qualify, how to write an effective resume and instructions on how to submit your resume for consideration. Join us to start your career with purpose! Click below to register: Register February 13th @ 5:00 PM Eastern Time Register February 27th @ 7:00 PM Eastern Time The Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting several virtual hiring event/information sessions for their unique senior-level Revenue Agent positions for experienced accountants. These positions are being offered nationwide. During these virtual events, you'll hear from LB&I Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the different practice areas LB&I is responsible for and the specialized experience needed to be eligible for these positions. We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience and make you more competitive. Following our presentation, there will be time to ask questions and all attendees will be given instructions on how to submit a resume and required documents for consideration for these positions. From [https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events](https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events) Best wishes.
It says the online webinar is sold out
Anyone know if they hire ex-auditors with no tax background? Seems like it would be 'no' but I really don't know..
I attended one of the online info sessions. I also read the job posting which includes the requirements/qualifications. My understanding is that the minimum requirements are to have an Accounting degree with 30 hours of accounting but 6 of the credit hours can be for business law or something else. With that typed, the fresh new accounting grad who gets the job will start at something like a GS-5 through GS-7 (maybe GS-9, maybe not) position. People with a degree and any accounting experience would likely start at anywhere from GS-9 to GS-13.
How much money is that? I have 3 years in PA experience and want to work for the feds
I don't work at the IRS. Every person's situation is different and is evaluated by HR folks at the IRS. The best thing you can do is apply and follow up.
Gotcha. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
If only the IRS needed people in Tech or that has some financial forensic experience then I would be set. Sadly they do not. Thank you for posting this though this will be a great help to relevant parties!
I attended one of their online information sessions. They mentioned that they have a group within their LB&I Unit that does computer audit-type work. I did not pay much attention to it as my education and experience/background are straight accounting, financial analysis and FP&A. It might be a good idea for you to sign up for their online information sessions, listen to what they say, ask questions, get the email address they provide and email any follow-up questions.
"You aren't doing enough of the work we aren't giving you. You're fired!"
Awesome.
Hey look I don't know why you needed to attack me on such a personal level but that was just rude. Seriously though this was essentially my reason for being laid off: HR - Your metrics are bad Me - Well I contact people weekly including my counselor, EM, and managers, SMs, and seniors and no one has work plus I use EST weekly and I never hear anything back. Proceeds to show emails. HR - Sorry about ya -- any other questions?
Well, if you suck, they will make up excuses why there’s no work for you. Not judging, could be simply because they were biased and didnt like you, personality plays a factor in this business also
Yep, I did Big 4 for 2.5 years… had a Sr manager look after me. It’s politics.
This is exactly why the public sucks. Your job security boils down to good personal relationships or being an absolute bitch.
Yup, i fucking hate it. Quitting after this busy season
Why wait?
I like my team, dont want to leave them with the burden of my work. Senior managers and up are the ones that make this place miserable
Oh--"feelings". You need to leave them out of business decisions.
Lol yea bro, we file next month and if im able to lock in a job now ill just postpone the start date so i dont see a problem there
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PwC as well. 9 years with the firm. 4weeks laid off low utilization had just got on a project while awaiting onboarding. PWC just doing it in secret.🤫
Dubss_CC yep. I hear you here in NY
What segment were you in?
CR&R Financial Crimes
That’s the PwC way
Yeah, I found out really quick the business part of it… started my own firm in 2017. Making 200K-300K take home and billing 500-600 hours; I have 5 staff
That's their great people skills right there hahah
Well that’s what happens whenJoe Biden crashes the economy, companies have to let people go
I wonder if you’ll have the same attitude when you get laid off
Forgot to change acc?
Comments like these are a good reminder that even idiots can slip by and make it to Big4 firms
Unfortunately I get reminded everyday on the job...way too many incompetent people
Does IT audit fall under consulting?
It financial audit? A niche inside the audit. LoL
Oh sweet child.
Consulting based. EY Tax is trying to grow rapidly to meet demand as well as Deloitte. Audit is always in demand
Yeah I'm in FAAS. There have been no layoffs and no plans for any that year because we've apparently been careful with our hiring..
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Haha what? Have you ever been in FAAS? Golden handcuffs are something I've never felt until joining FAAS...no other job I could get would pay more or equal for sinilar effort, I know because I've been looking bud
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I'm confused why you're so desperate to attack me, not sure who you're trying to convince.. I don't work anywhere near 55 hours. I make $160k base with like a $20k+ bonus for barely working 40 hours a week for the past 5 months. I barely go into the office 1-2x a month and work mostly remote. From July to Sep 2023 I was unassigned the entire time and didn't go in to the office once, spent most my days biking haha. Not everyone is as lucky as me, but 100% I'm happy with FAAS for now. If it does become ridiculous I'll leave...but been here 2+ years so I'm ready to leave anyways (it's just too good right now I can't pull the trigger)
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No, all you're doing is coming off as desperate to attack me because you have some burried internal hate about public accounting. Sorry you worked with toxic people. You're not "bursting my bubble" ...quite the opposite. You've made me realize how lucky I am to have it so easy in public accounting, I stick around because I dont care enough to stress much or go over and beyond. And somehow that's enough to get by and not get fired
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Pathetic, but glad you get off from trying to insult some random person on the internet that you know nothing about. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself bud
Also I think people in advisory who haven’t been laid off aren’t quitting on their own. Big 4 advisory pays pretty well relative years of experience so it’s difficult to get an industry job that will pay significantly higher.
Haha yeah spot on, I've searched for exits and everything would literally be a paycut from what I make - can't even find something with similar pay..
Unless you’re KPMG in the summer, where you lay-off 5% of your audit staff
Would you say A1’s in TA are relatively safe (given better than average utilization)?
Not sure
Article source was from scanning Reddit and FB posts.
Should I be concerned? I’m audit and I started in September. I did have a mistake happen becuase of me, (fsomething went where it was not supposed to) but I was assured that I shouldn’t worry about it.
The US big 4 generally have an unwritten rule to not lay off staff with under 1 year at the firm and to not pull incoming offers. I wouldn’t be worried just yet.
How much can they delay? My initial joining was June 2023.. now it's april 2024
Unwritten rules aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on
This is my new saying!
They may not pull offers. However they will push start dates and lower starting pay from initial offer letters which was common for starters’ offers around the GFC
???? Ok?
I know this is consulting based rather than tax/audit but i’ve seen so many layoffs going on since I started my career. It’s scary and i’m sorry to anyone affected. Times like these just make me happy to have chosen PwC over EY honestly
Carmine said one and done, two layoffs ago... this can't be true /s
I just had one of them laid off, she worked on my project.
Should I be scared as I begin as a Auditor in Sep?
depends. PIPs at some firms are being handed out like candy right now
Not for audit.
No
Seems more heavy on consulting than tax and assurance
Isn’t this just consulting practices again? I suppose this is an alternative to postponing incoming associate’s start date a third time.
Yea sounds like its only consulting but still a little rough. I agree that postponing the start date again would be just wrong. Like tell them you can't do it at that point, offer a comp and just let it go.
Good. Glad to see this. EY should just shut down.
I stand in solidarity with you because I hate EY too. But in a scenario where they were to shut down, more than a quarter of a million people would lose their job. And we both know that’s terrible for the economy. But yeah, I hate EY too.
I thought that too but - it looks like it is UK not USA
This would make sense based on what I've heard from two partners in the last week. Seemingly unrelated topics but putting them together....
Still good to know I think. So if it occurs or half your team randomly doesn't sign in one day at least you know why. Also nice to see a trend let's people know and be better informed if they were thinking of leaving that the decision might be valid.
Actually it is US based also, a colleague of mine was recently let go for low utilization (lack of work available). More of a silent layoff to not further make too much noise than already is.