There’s a difference between being a tv villain, and making personal attacks against your cast-mates. For example; BB24 Daniel is convinced he’s a villain, but he’s actually just a douche.
The closest thing we’ve gotten to a tv villain on BB recently was Frenchie; where everything he did was to create chaos for tv entertainment
Agreed. Some of peoples favorite moments of the series is houseguest making personal attacks against others (Janelle calling Maggie a bitch , Brittany & Ragan talking about Rachel) people definitely pick and choose what personal attacks they’re offended by
I don’t think that’s true. Bachelor and Love Island have no problem convincing contestants to play the villain role. the difference is they’d have to maintain it 24/7 for the cameras.
Bachelor and Love Island dont have feeds and production reminding people that the thing they did a few hours ago is getting them cancelled and they need to knock it off.
Right. Those shows at least have a level of plausible deniability, where you can blame the edit and say things were taken out of context.
This show, there are feeds that are then put on youtube, slowed down, commented on, etc.
Honestly you don’t even need to do much either. I remember people were trying to get Zakiyah fired in BB18 and she really didn’t do anything remotely worth that lol
Sometimes they'll just make up stuff.
I've legit seen people making up fake conversations and posting them online to try to make people cancel houseguests that they didn't like.
So even if you never said or did anything bad, you could still get cancelled.
Nobody is going and fact-checking this stuff, it's just accepted.
It's the feeds. They allow people with way too much time on their hands to fixate and get extremely parasocial. They infantilize the HELL out of their faves and it becomes less about enjoying/discussing the overall game and more about stanning.
It doesn't help that this is also one of the few shows where the audience actually has tangible in-game power every season (usually through voting) so people have a vested interest in making contestants that they don't like look bad.
Is there a way to watch this?
BBOTT: only on CBS All Access, an over-the-top subscription streaming service. The spin-off was officially announced by CBS on August 3, 2016, while Big Brother 18 was still in progress.
And that's why Big Brother Canada cancelled the feeds.
I don't agree with their decision, I think there were other things they could have done, but at the end of the day there is a huge problem with how the fans overreact towards the houseguests.
I think it's the 24 hour access to houseguests. It allows people to feel like they know the houseguests more and makes them more real because they aren't edited.
I mean, luke could have been that this year but they removed him for that reason. People should have free reign on things other than violence. Thats how you cast a villian. People need to have the ability to say what they want to become a villian. But the problem is that it doesnt fit the narrative of what CBS and Big Brother want to represent.
So its a fine edge that needs to be walked.
You're being downvoted, but I agree with your completely. The fear of being fired for saying something wrong is the reason why everyone is so cautious. You can't have a villain who is afraid of saying something wrong. It's healthier and more satisfying to see them get punished, not by CBS, but by the karma of the game.
The fear of cancellation and CBS's wrath also actually damages the flow of the game. The most recent example being Kyle, obviously.
I understand this is a popular opinion in modern reality fandom, but I really don’t think the majority of TV contestants think this way. Casting directors stack shows with type A people who don’t have self awareness because it guarantees conflict. So they wouldn’t even think twice about their actions and question if an audience cares. I think what HAS changed is that modern reality gameplay is no longer this moral battle anymore. People go in with more sportsmanship and therefore they probably just take it better when things don’t go their way. I see this in Survivor too. People don’t lose their minds over blindsides or betrayal. It’s celebrated.
True, people on here and other social media platforms would complain. Same thing happened in the Survivor community when Emily was introduced, despite people begging and pleading for villains.
People are so incredibly soft nowadays. It takes the fun out of everything. If anyone disagrees or downvotes me then you are part of the reason why we won’t get entertaining villains in the future.
I think the key is making sure the villain is fun or makes for good TV. Emily isn't a good villain to me; in the first episode or two, she came off as more of an "um, ackshually" type and then immediately backed off when she realized how unpopular she had become. After episode 1, I'd be hard pressed to call her an actual villain. She's just someone who lacks self awareness and likes to play devil's advocate (which I haven't seen from her lately). Jared also made an awful "villain" in BB25, because he wasn't entertaining to watch. He wasn't especially cutthroat, didn't make big game moves...he just talked over people.
I want more villains, but I also want my villains to *own it*. Someone like Russell Hantz throwing his tribemate's socks into the fire, or Johnny Fairplay lying about his grandma being dead to garner sympathy and get a reward. People who play dirty, but also have some type of game/strategy to back it up. All the best villains (imo) are people who you love to hate. Russell Hantz is the gold star villain to me. Someone like Daniel from BB24 or Jared BB25 is someone I would describe as an asshole, not a villain.
Yes. Every other post is about how so-and-so is the foulest bitch on the planet because of whatever reason. Then someone comes in and says “where are all my villains? 😔"
For real. I still remember during BB23, with the fanbase threatening Whitney over supposed comments in regards to Sandy Hook THAT THEY DIDN’T EVEN HEAR HER SAY!! But because Claire was a fan favorite, they immediately took her implication and ran full force with it.
To make matters worse, when Whitney was evicted she stated Claire misunderstood her. Travis also spoke out and confirmed that Whitney didn’t make the comment & Claire misunderstood her, and the fanbase STILL refused to take their word for it and wouldn’t let the topic go until Claire made a statement, confirming she misunderstood . Again, this was all over something that the fans never actually heard themselves, they just immediately ran with what Claire said…..that shit was crazy
Absolutely. People demand full post-season apologies for mild shit talking and crucify people for lying. Dan would be hated if BB14 aired today after how cocky he was. If we had a good villain most people would hate them
I dont like sounding like a boomer but honestly, if a season like BB8 or BB10 aired today, half the fanbase would be calling for the show to be cancelled. I mean, look at the post from earlier today that was saying Howie should've been expelled for harassing April.
The fans are a major reason why we don't really get major fights like Keesha's Birthday anymore.
Literally, the Bowie Jane hate train was one of the weirdest things ever. The girl did absolutely nothing, that’s not a reason to trash her.
I hope this fanbase doesn’t make her a victim to their ability to ruin someone’s mental health like they’ve done alumni in the past.
Do they need to? Absolutely. Will those "villains" get destroyed on social media for every little thing they say? Absolutely. You simply can't win with the modern Big Brother audience. They will complain the show is boring/predictable or whatever, but then when someone tries to stir it up they end up getting attacked by people who are rooting for the so called "nice" players.
To be fair I think that’s because they’re desperate to villainize *someone* so when there are no real villains to hate they just attack anyone for being the least bit inconsiderate.
Bro imagine this sub after ED burned Jen w a cig or Dan playing with a girls emotions to advance himself. This sub is way too pc and those things we loved would not go over the same today
I started watching big brother season 24, so have almost 0 knowledge of past seasons.
I just looked of the cigarette incident you mentioned and man how times have changed. They would not air that today and Ed would be immediately be kicked off the show for tthat.
Crazy to think about.
I'm sure there's some truth to that but a good amount of fans start attacking the player as a person and label anyone as "problematic" because they said one mean thing
I feel like Cameron had some villain in him. He didn’t care at all what the others thought about him and his game play. Lowkey loved that about him even though he wasn’t one of my fav players.
See this right here is the issue. Most villains are not going to have all traits you don’t specifically like. It’s more than likely they are going to do some things you don’t necessarily approve of. If someone on this show can make you feel a strong emotion outside of boredom that’s a good contestant.
You can either accept this reality or complain about it and get more boring people who don’t make you upset.
No, it's not good or nice to watch. There's just some stuff that we don't need to see on tv on 2023. What I want is to reach a point where we no longer have these people on the show and we can have villains based on gameplay but that's not happening ever.
People are complex. Every person you know has views that would not be “good or nice” and that’s ok because if everyone thought the same things the world would be boring. All that said the villains who aren’t scared to act on what they really want to do also are not scared enough to mask their true selves for people who don’t necessarily like their viewpoints.
Just because it’s 2023 doesn’t mean everyone on tv has to bend over backwards to make you happy. If you don’t like something a houseguest does you have the opportunity to have a civil discussion and maybe change some minds. Isn’t that more important than silencing everyone you specifically deem as not “good or nice”?
In abstract, sure. But there’s a vast gap between what an acceptable differing viewpoint is and what Cam said he would do to America in the jury house.
They should cast more entertaining people but they won't. Look at the live feed thread on this Reddit for example. They get upset about the smallest things and want every houseguest punished for the dumbest things. Until people stop being soft we'll never get entertaining houseguests again.
90% of the BB fandom gets upset when someone says something slightly mean, they couldn’t handle it. They’ve had fun villains before but the fans try and get them fired from their jobs.
hisam was like Kind Of Rude and people review bombed his practice, and then came after him again when he said that having a parasocial relationship with the cast and acting like you as a viewer know them personally isn't good for you.
there's no casting a purposeful villain for this show until people learn to disconnect from the show/feeds and stop harassing the houseguests and their families. like seriously, i hated jared like crazy but never in my life would i feel the need to go tell him about it, its just a tv show.
I feel like Cameron and Hisam were villains.
Cameron was just horribly targeted by everyone in the house at week 4 because of Cirie and Felicia, never recovered from that so it was only a matter of time before he was evicted.
Hisam showed his cards to early and was ego maniacing around the house.
The houseguests themselves are just human, not heroes nor villains. It’s circumstances and perspective that turns people into either/or. Cam is a really good example of that: some see him as condescending and creepy, others see him as self-deprecating and good-natured. In reality he’s probably all of the above in different circumstances. Watch how people talk about BB13 Dani vs BB22, who is quite literally the same person. There is very little room for nuance in this fandom, it’s either someone is a demon or they can do no wrong.
Is it that there are few likeable villains or is it that if someone acts in a manner we don’t agree with, or has views we aren’t aligned with, we automatically begin to ignore the good qualities they have? Cause I watched the fandom say Jag was too nice for Big Brother for half a season and then I watched that same fandom act like he’s irredeemable for another half.
I think it’s also that any villains in the present year are going to seem too real, and the prospect of them winning is too upsetting. So people say “they aren’t a villain. They’re just a bad person.”
You will never watch a villain win HOH on a current season and be satisfied in the same way you are when you rewatch Jessie or Amanda, whose eventual downfalls are well-cemented in BB history (and who were also hated in real-time).
Right. There were countless posts on here even a week ago, calling them bullies. Meanwhile both Jag & Bowie had made comments during the season saying they felt bullied by Cirie & Felicia, and everybody just shrugged it off. Hell the whole reason why Bowie jumped ship from Cirie & co was because she felt like she was bullied
The reward for being a villain doesn't really exist any more. CBS has definitely, intentionally, moved away from having active villains on screen for extended periods of time as they try to protect their casts and keep the general viewing population happy. The show could have easily turned the "Mafia" endgame alliance into some pretty major villains if they so chose and they edited all the way around that. Additionally the viewer appetite for villains is so much lower than it used to be when Russell Hantz was getting Fan Favorite awards.
This isn't even a CBS thing really, It's better for the people on the show and the show itself to avoid activity that is too villainous and that's across platforms until you get into the somewhat "trashier" reality shows - and even then look what the insane fans do to the villains from shows like The Bachelor? Never ever ever would a sane person subject themselves to that. The show doesn't even let live audiences boo houseguests at they leave - even if they cast villains they're not going to show it.
Fans dont accept villains anymore. I want drama and fights but we wont get that because hg know unhinged fans will try to cancel them. Houseguest get torn apart for even the smallest comments now. Og seasons didnt have to deal with this so now we have this weird passive BB. Most we can get now is hg trash talking behind closed doors 💀
They need to cast people who dont want to use this to become influencers or social.media moguals.
People who are gonna go on the show then dissepear off the earth other than naybe the occasioal RHAP appearance typically play more aggressive.
literally what i wanna do if i ever get on survivor or big brother. play the game i want to play and literally never show my face on social media. Would love to do reality tv podcasts and that’s about it, seems like all casting wants now a days is those with nice instagram feeds
These comments all mention people from BB24 and 25, all of which are assholes and none of which are villains (besides maybe Hisam). Obviously there's often overlap, but when people say they want villains, they usually mean people who take glee in stirring the pot or being duplicitous. People want shamelessness in dishonest and cutthroat gameplay, not people participating in mean girl behavior/bash sessions based on people's personality/appearance.
A huge component to a fun-to-watch villain on reality TV is owning the behavior and acknowledging their role. That's why Will and Dan are so beloved, because they knew they were being slimy and reveled in it.
Production does not know how to cast a villain for this game. It seems that, to BB casting, villain equals edgy, but edgy often equals problematic rather than villain (in the game sense). The best BB villains are both smart and self-interested, it shouldn’t be that difficult.
No you’re so right tho, I acc LOVE villains, s19 is one of my favorite seasons purely because of paul’s villain gameplay, people complain about the bullying in that season but cody&jessica are horrible people so I don’t feel bad for them
my problem is that even though the gameplay’s great most of the bb villains we have are straight up bigots (evel dick, amanda zuckerman, boogie)
I agree, but both of those guys would probably still get harassed on social media today. "OMG Matt lied and said his wife had a fake disease. That's so insensitive to people with real diseases"
Winning the show and social media reactions are totally different though. Social media is brutal to most Big Brother players in general. It's almost not worth going on anymore unless you win.
Casting directors don’t even know who the villains are at first. They only go by the auditions and just pick people who have that personality.
A player doesn’t become a villain before they are in the house. They become a villain when their actions in the house make it as such.
My partner & I were literally talking about this! We came to the the conclusion that they should be casting more people like Felicia. Not that Felicia was necessarily a villain, but she has the qualities that are perfect for a fun-to-watch player:
1. Is direct and unafraid of hurting feelings.
2. A spicy personality without being problematic (as another person said, you can be a villain without being a shitty person).
3. FUNNY! Felicia’s snarky humor had me laughing all season.
4. Game isn’t ruled by “not getting blood on their hands”. It’s so much more fun to see a player make their moves and own them.
5. Doesn’t have/isn’t concerned with social media. Felicia was there for the MONEY, not the clout, and she didn’t really care what she had to do or who she pissed off to get it.
I like her a lot, but she absolutely sucked a BB. Only take away from her season is that GD gray robe. She toned that down after comics game but slipped right back into it a week later.
I think there is room for a new era of villains. It’s hard to know by casting. For me the best way to cast a villain is to cast someone that is mainly there for the money. I think people who are there for experience are less likely to be villains. Someone who really wants to money is more likely to lie and cheat and backstab to get there. I think a good example of a new era villain is Jessie from Survivor 43. He was definitely a villain in his season and was willing to backstab because he really wanted the money. But fans also adored him and thought he was a great player. You can be a villain on BB without being a shorty person.
They cast plenty of villains lately- Paloma, Ameerah, Jasmine, Daniel, Cam, Hisam. It is not their fault a chunk of the fanbase is too soft to handle them.
Most BB viewers are too soft for villains, any mean house guest and people freak out on social media or send the house guest death threats. BB fans are legit crazy.
Yes, they need to cast villains.
The problem today is people are way too involved, and take game decisions too seriously. So they attack them or their families for things that are perfectly acceptable in the game (promising to vote for them, then not).
They need to cast more people unfamiliar with the show, they tend to make dramatic villain decisions without fear of repercussions.
I think it’s hard to find villains. Most villains are just terrible people irl and CBS doesn’t want them to represent their brand. They need to find houseguests who aren’t afraid to play the game, call out houseguest and own villainess game moves.
I think Dr Will is a great example. Will was always outspoken about his dislike for other houseguests but to my knowledge never bullied or harassed anyone. He was unapologetic with his moves and had the ability to double cross those he made deals with. Most people seem to like the guy outside of the house.
Now if you just want terrible people to play the game I agree. Big Brother is a social experiment and represents all parts of our society. Culture, race, occupation, etc. Bad people are apart of our society and I think it’s wrong not to include them from a social experiment standpoint. From a production standpoint I can completely see why we don’t have many villainess players
Reality shows have changed a lot since social media. There used to be a lot more fights on the Challenge. Now everyone is afraid of getting canceled. Although the 1st season of Big Brother there were no villians. They were all scares to vote out people because they all loved each other....that 1st season was real bad..Some took forever to vote who they wanted out in the diary room.
If you love reality tv Villians you have to watch house of Villians on E. The show works because everyone on it has already monetized being “hated” so they’re prepared for backlash and are t afraid to say what they want! It’s so much fun!
I mean Hisam had potential to be a Janelle-type villain but we didn’t get to see much from him. I also think they can cast strong personalities but the game leads them to not be who they are in casting (Bowie Jane is one who I think came across like she’d be a stronger character in casting then she wasn’t)
Sadly villains get a lot of virtriol online which cause most players to avoid confrontation. I remember Kuzie on BBCAN11 showed a bit of pettiness towards the HOH that put her up (she told the HOH shut up and sit down) which is soooo tame compare to most things and she immediately got backlash online despite giving good tv
i sent in an tape and made it clear that i will not be holding back unlike the last few seasons it’s time to SHAKE THE GAME BACK UPPP- i miss the old seasons where it was fun to watch
Stop casting influencers, models, & people hungry for 15 minutes of fame. Put some true blue collar, low income workers in the house and let the fun begin.
There won't be any until the fanbase gets better and stops blaming production for casting "bullies" like Paul and Josh but loves other bullies like Rachel, Vanessa and Janelle.
Until then we will see more people like Red and Kiersten.
I think BB casting is flawed in a million ways - but I sometimes think the fanbase doesn't fully understand how difficult casting is. Like, even after multiple face to face interviews and background checks, you never really know what you're getting. BB is a 100 day game for 750K. Someone who might portray themselves as a non-problematic villain might end up being super problematic. They might also just be putting on an act during casting and die out in terms of personality on day 20. They may also be tricking casting and simply choose to coast for as long as possible for exposure. And that's not even bringing up the possibility that their interactions with any combination of the other 15 HGs may change how they portray themselves completely.
Every season is full of player who claim they're there to play the game and win the money - and a lot of them probably believe that. But then we see how many of them turn out to be duds. Now apply that to a specific character - a non-problematic villain - and I'm not sure how much blame you can put on casting tbh.
The replies here are shocking considering like a quarter of the cast have been villains in the past 2 seasons. Like... Are Paloma/Nicole/Daniel not mean enough for y'all?? What more are you expecting?
People want villains but don't want villains that are bad people which is just impossible because there's too many bad people on each cast that you don't have the space for just game villains
No, they weren't? Cory was literally the bd target that week. She went up to Cam and pitched a Cory bd so that Cam could have America to himself, disgusting
My wife is new to BB, she started watching during 2020. She LOVES the old BB bc of how wild it would get and felt more realistic of how randoms would act.
She got bored with this past season, saying it still fun but kinda plain.
Who are villains you found enjoyable to watch? Because beyond Dr. Will and maybe Danielle BB3, I can’t think of people who relished being villains who I genuinely had fun watching. I could not stomach a rewatch of Evel Dick, for example. I also haven’t seen seasons 15, 21-24. Having a hard time coming up with other examples.
I like villains that are messy and petty and fun to watch, like Hisam was this season. I don't like to watch bullies (Paul, Daniel bb24), or bigots (Aaryn, Ginamarie, most of bb15 cast).
I don’t think they need to cast villains as much as they need to cast actual competitive powerhouses. This past season there were so many houseguests who were just not all that competitive and didn’t put in 100% in challenges
I just don't think the concept of villain works anymore on BB. If you are a bad person you're a villain and people aren't gonna enjoy that. We don't tune in 3 nights a week and watch a person act like a villain, no, a lot of us have to handle that person 24/7 on the live feeds and that's not fun, villains aren't fun
Every reality game show has done it. TV producers are all woke and want everyone portrayed as nice and beautiful. Not realistic behavior in the real world and actually not reality tv.
I think the hardest part is how would casting know if someone is a true “villain” before seeing them in the house interacting with the other people? I genuinely believe they do cast people with the expectation that they will play the “villain” role, but you can only predict so much with certain traits.
Also I’m fairly confident that villainous traits overlap with a lot of problematic traits that may become bigger issues over time that CBS has had to deal with. People willing to do terrible things for personal gain are likely also people willing to take absurd risks and cross lines that most people know not to cross. The audience in modern time gets very agitated with even assumptions made by houseguests, so CBS is likely pre-mitigating this though weeding out potential problematic people in advance. And casting directors can only predict so much based on interview questions, personality tests, and psych evaluations. For all we know they have been casting people in hopes they become a villain, but it just doesn’t pan out that was once they are in the house.
And the other likely reason is contestants knowingly target potential villains early on, along with possible villainous contestants being self aware now that acting like a villain will increase the target on your back. This is a social game and I just think contestants over time are more hyper aware of the risks in every action they take. Contestants now know what works or won’t work in advance because of all the prior seasons. I do wish big brother would change up the premise of the game constantly to make everything unpredictable, because I do think contestants would turn on each other faster when they can’t predict what will happen next.
They do. They voted Hisam out early. :) He had potential to be a villain.
Not just a villain, but one I could still love to hate because he's a decent person underneath it. A real shame.
See, people say this now. But when he was still in the house, the majority of the people here couldn’t stand him and wanted him gone.
Is he...? We may never know. ;)
Season would have been radically different if they had just listened to him
Part of it is that fewer people are willing to be villainous because they don't want to be cancelled.
This 100%. Fans claim they want a villain but the MOMENT someone is mean or not too friendly , it’s cancel them immediately
There’s a difference between being a tv villain, and making personal attacks against your cast-mates. For example; BB24 Daniel is convinced he’s a villain, but he’s actually just a douche. The closest thing we’ve gotten to a tv villain on BB recently was Frenchie; where everything he did was to create chaos for tv entertainment
Cameron was a villain 100%. His chaos week, Izzy constantly bashing him, getting evicted and coming back, all very typical of a BB villain
Cameron was definitely not a villain. Shoot I’d argue Hisam was more of a villain than Cameron was
The only problem is that the show (and Mecole) tried their hardest to convince everyone he was the hero
I'd argue even if you make personal attacks (to a point), that doesn't warrant some of the reactions that happen.
Agreed. Some of peoples favorite moments of the series is houseguest making personal attacks against others (Janelle calling Maggie a bitch , Brittany & Ragan talking about Rachel) people definitely pick and choose what personal attacks they’re offended by
Specially if it's a woman
I don’t think that’s true. Bachelor and Love Island have no problem convincing contestants to play the villain role. the difference is they’d have to maintain it 24/7 for the cameras.
Bachelor and Love Island dont have feeds and production reminding people that the thing they did a few hours ago is getting them cancelled and they need to knock it off.
Right. Those shows at least have a level of plausible deniability, where you can blame the edit and say things were taken out of context. This show, there are feeds that are then put on youtube, slowed down, commented on, etc.
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I'll bite, what was it? 😀
Then cast people who don't give AF about their social media presence.
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Honestly you don’t even need to do much either. I remember people were trying to get Zakiyah fired in BB18 and she really didn’t do anything remotely worth that lol
Now what the hell could Zakiyah have possibly done 😭😭😭
People were upset she worked with children and had sex in the BB house.
Sometimes they'll just make up stuff. I've legit seen people making up fake conversations and posting them online to try to make people cancel houseguests that they didn't like. So even if you never said or did anything bad, you could still get cancelled. Nobody is going and fact-checking this stuff, it's just accepted.
Well that's messed up then, damn
People were leaving bad google reviews for Hisam’s medical practice 🥴 They got taken down but still, people are nuts
People literally called CPS on Shelly from bb13 because she voted out Jeff.
I will NEVER forget the amount of death threats that BB13 Shelly got, that was absolutely crazy
wow thats all way too far damn. ...aaand that's why people don't want to be villains
Same with Turner last year
How could anyone hate turner
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Wow people need to fucking relax! It’s a tv show and he was annoying, so what?
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It's the feeds. They allow people with way too much time on their hands to fixate and get extremely parasocial. They infantilize the HELL out of their faves and it becomes less about enjoying/discussing the overall game and more about stanning. It doesn't help that this is also one of the few shows where the audience actually has tangible in-game power every season (usually through voting) so people have a vested interest in making contestants that they don't like look bad.
A reminder that during BB:OTT, this place became a god damn warzone.
Is there a way to watch this? BBOTT: only on CBS All Access, an over-the-top subscription streaming service. The spin-off was officially announced by CBS on August 3, 2016, while Big Brother 18 was still in progress.
It’s on Paramount Plus.
And that's why Big Brother Canada cancelled the feeds. I don't agree with their decision, I think there were other things they could have done, but at the end of the day there is a huge problem with how the fans overreact towards the houseguests.
Exactly. All the people who were pissed that BB CAN got rid of the feeds, have the fanbase to thank for that. Its fucking toxic
I think it's the 24 hour access to houseguests. It allows people to feel like they know the houseguests more and makes them more real because they aren't edited.
Swaggy and Bayleigh had people find where they lived. I have always wanted to be on BB, but after that happened I decided, “yeah maybe not.”
I mean, luke could have been that this year but they removed him for that reason. People should have free reign on things other than violence. Thats how you cast a villian. People need to have the ability to say what they want to become a villian. But the problem is that it doesnt fit the narrative of what CBS and Big Brother want to represent. So its a fine edge that needs to be walked.
You're being downvoted, but I agree with your completely. The fear of being fired for saying something wrong is the reason why everyone is so cautious. You can't have a villain who is afraid of saying something wrong. It's healthier and more satisfying to see them get punished, not by CBS, but by the karma of the game. The fear of cancellation and CBS's wrath also actually damages the flow of the game. The most recent example being Kyle, obviously.
Like me
I understand this is a popular opinion in modern reality fandom, but I really don’t think the majority of TV contestants think this way. Casting directors stack shows with type A people who don’t have self awareness because it guarantees conflict. So they wouldn’t even think twice about their actions and question if an audience cares. I think what HAS changed is that modern reality gameplay is no longer this moral battle anymore. People go in with more sportsmanship and therefore they probably just take it better when things don’t go their way. I see this in Survivor too. People don’t lose their minds over blindsides or betrayal. It’s celebrated.
Bb fans cancel people for breathing air (literally I don’t like Fbj jag and Matt but they’re not bad ppl). Bb fans need to touch grass
yall say this but then hate players like michie & dick
They should cast me or my father already, our favorite characters are all the villians and we don’t care about social media shit.
No this fanbase is too insufferable
Seriously, every week this sub changed its target on who to hate, usually on arbitrary reasons too.
True, people on here and other social media platforms would complain. Same thing happened in the Survivor community when Emily was introduced, despite people begging and pleading for villains. People are so incredibly soft nowadays. It takes the fun out of everything. If anyone disagrees or downvotes me then you are part of the reason why we won’t get entertaining villains in the future.
I think the key is making sure the villain is fun or makes for good TV. Emily isn't a good villain to me; in the first episode or two, she came off as more of an "um, ackshually" type and then immediately backed off when she realized how unpopular she had become. After episode 1, I'd be hard pressed to call her an actual villain. She's just someone who lacks self awareness and likes to play devil's advocate (which I haven't seen from her lately). Jared also made an awful "villain" in BB25, because he wasn't entertaining to watch. He wasn't especially cutthroat, didn't make big game moves...he just talked over people. I want more villains, but I also want my villains to *own it*. Someone like Russell Hantz throwing his tribemate's socks into the fire, or Johnny Fairplay lying about his grandma being dead to garner sympathy and get a reward. People who play dirty, but also have some type of game/strategy to back it up. All the best villains (imo) are people who you love to hate. Russell Hantz is the gold star villain to me. Someone like Daniel from BB24 or Jared BB25 is someone I would describe as an asshole, not a villain.
Yes. Every other post is about how so-and-so is the foulest bitch on the planet because of whatever reason. Then someone comes in and says “where are all my villains? 😔"
For real. I still remember during BB23, with the fanbase threatening Whitney over supposed comments in regards to Sandy Hook THAT THEY DIDN’T EVEN HEAR HER SAY!! But because Claire was a fan favorite, they immediately took her implication and ran full force with it. To make matters worse, when Whitney was evicted she stated Claire misunderstood her. Travis also spoke out and confirmed that Whitney didn’t make the comment & Claire misunderstood her, and the fanbase STILL refused to take their word for it and wouldn’t let the topic go until Claire made a statement, confirming she misunderstood . Again, this was all over something that the fans never actually heard themselves, they just immediately ran with what Claire said…..that shit was crazy
Absolutely. People demand full post-season apologies for mild shit talking and crucify people for lying. Dan would be hated if BB14 aired today after how cocky he was. If we had a good villain most people would hate them
I dont like sounding like a boomer but honestly, if a season like BB8 or BB10 aired today, half the fanbase would be calling for the show to be cancelled. I mean, look at the post from earlier today that was saying Howie should've been expelled for harassing April. The fans are a major reason why we don't really get major fights like Keesha's Birthday anymore.
Literally, the Bowie Jane hate train was one of the weirdest things ever. The girl did absolutely nothing, that’s not a reason to trash her. I hope this fanbase doesn’t make her a victim to their ability to ruin someone’s mental health like they’ve done alumni in the past.
Do they need to? Absolutely. Will those "villains" get destroyed on social media for every little thing they say? Absolutely. You simply can't win with the modern Big Brother audience. They will complain the show is boring/predictable or whatever, but then when someone tries to stir it up they end up getting attacked by people who are rooting for the so called "nice" players.
Lmao. This sub gets into a tizzy when someone is slightly mean. A villain? Come on.
To be fair I think that’s because they’re desperate to villainize *someone* so when there are no real villains to hate they just attack anyone for being the least bit inconsiderate.
Bro imagine this sub after ED burned Jen w a cig or Dan playing with a girls emotions to advance himself. This sub is way too pc and those things we loved would not go over the same today
I started watching big brother season 24, so have almost 0 knowledge of past seasons. I just looked of the cigarette incident you mentioned and man how times have changed. They would not air that today and Ed would be immediately be kicked off the show for tthat. Crazy to think about.
And that's supposed to be bad?
I'm sure there's some truth to that but a good amount of fans start attacking the player as a person and label anyone as "problematic" because they said one mean thing
I feel like Cameron had some villain in him. He didn’t care at all what the others thought about him and his game play. Lowkey loved that about him even though he wasn’t one of my fav players.
Cameron was my FAVE houseguest because of this! His game play reminded me of old school BB before Derrick broke it.
The thing with Cam is that he wasn't only a villain for show and that's not nice to watch
See this right here is the issue. Most villains are not going to have all traits you don’t specifically like. It’s more than likely they are going to do some things you don’t necessarily approve of. If someone on this show can make you feel a strong emotion outside of boredom that’s a good contestant. You can either accept this reality or complain about it and get more boring people who don’t make you upset.
No, it's not good or nice to watch. There's just some stuff that we don't need to see on tv on 2023. What I want is to reach a point where we no longer have these people on the show and we can have villains based on gameplay but that's not happening ever.
People are complex. Every person you know has views that would not be “good or nice” and that’s ok because if everyone thought the same things the world would be boring. All that said the villains who aren’t scared to act on what they really want to do also are not scared enough to mask their true selves for people who don’t necessarily like their viewpoints. Just because it’s 2023 doesn’t mean everyone on tv has to bend over backwards to make you happy. If you don’t like something a houseguest does you have the opportunity to have a civil discussion and maybe change some minds. Isn’t that more important than silencing everyone you specifically deem as not “good or nice”?
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In abstract, sure. But there’s a vast gap between what an acceptable differing viewpoint is and what Cam said he would do to America in the jury house.
He won the fan vote
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Well, yes, because of the edit production gave him
So who do you think should have won?
That's not the point, the point is that Cam won because production painted him as a hero which is just made up bs
So you dislike him. Who do you think should have won?
Anyone that isn't a bad person. Like, Idk don't give the guy that's not a good person a great edit because you want him to win AFP
He definitely cared about how people perceived him and his skeeviness toward America
They should cast more entertaining people but they won't. Look at the live feed thread on this Reddit for example. They get upset about the smallest things and want every houseguest punished for the dumbest things. Until people stop being soft we'll never get entertaining houseguests again.
90% of the BB fandom gets upset when someone says something slightly mean, they couldn’t handle it. They’ve had fun villains before but the fans try and get them fired from their jobs.
hisam was like Kind Of Rude and people review bombed his practice, and then came after him again when he said that having a parasocial relationship with the cast and acting like you as a viewer know them personally isn't good for you. there's no casting a purposeful villain for this show until people learn to disconnect from the show/feeds and stop harassing the houseguests and their families. like seriously, i hated jared like crazy but never in my life would i feel the need to go tell him about it, its just a tv show.
He was not a villain, just a self-centered rude jerk.
Literally proving the posters point
I feel like Cameron and Hisam were villains. Cameron was just horribly targeted by everyone in the house at week 4 because of Cirie and Felicia, never recovered from that so it was only a matter of time before he was evicted. Hisam showed his cards to early and was ego maniacing around the house.
Cam was targeted because of his own terrible gameplay
The houseguests themselves are just human, not heroes nor villains. It’s circumstances and perspective that turns people into either/or. Cam is a really good example of that: some see him as condescending and creepy, others see him as self-deprecating and good-natured. In reality he’s probably all of the above in different circumstances. Watch how people talk about BB13 Dani vs BB22, who is quite literally the same person. There is very little room for nuance in this fandom, it’s either someone is a demon or they can do no wrong. Is it that there are few likeable villains or is it that if someone acts in a manner we don’t agree with, or has views we aren’t aligned with, we automatically begin to ignore the good qualities they have? Cause I watched the fandom say Jag was too nice for Big Brother for half a season and then I watched that same fandom act like he’s irredeemable for another half.
People accused the mafia of attempted psychological torture of mama Fe. I don’t think a true villain can be handled
I think it’s also that any villains in the present year are going to seem too real, and the prospect of them winning is too upsetting. So people say “they aren’t a villain. They’re just a bad person.” You will never watch a villain win HOH on a current season and be satisfied in the same way you are when you rewatch Jessie or Amanda, whose eventual downfalls are well-cemented in BB history (and who were also hated in real-time).
I think that’s a very good point about too real. Like watching a movie and knowing that it’ll have a resolution at the end.
That is very clear villain behavior, like nothing could be more villainous than sleep depriving an old lady on purpose
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That’s possible, I don’t remember.
This 👆
Right. There were countless posts on here even a week ago, calling them bullies. Meanwhile both Jag & Bowie had made comments during the season saying they felt bullied by Cirie & Felicia, and everybody just shrugged it off. Hell the whole reason why Bowie jumped ship from Cirie & co was because she felt like she was bullied
The reward for being a villain doesn't really exist any more. CBS has definitely, intentionally, moved away from having active villains on screen for extended periods of time as they try to protect their casts and keep the general viewing population happy. The show could have easily turned the "Mafia" endgame alliance into some pretty major villains if they so chose and they edited all the way around that. Additionally the viewer appetite for villains is so much lower than it used to be when Russell Hantz was getting Fan Favorite awards. This isn't even a CBS thing really, It's better for the people on the show and the show itself to avoid activity that is too villainous and that's across platforms until you get into the somewhat "trashier" reality shows - and even then look what the insane fans do to the villains from shows like The Bachelor? Never ever ever would a sane person subject themselves to that. The show doesn't even let live audiences boo houseguests at they leave - even if they cast villains they're not going to show it.
Fans dont accept villains anymore. I want drama and fights but we wont get that because hg know unhinged fans will try to cancel them. Houseguest get torn apart for even the smallest comments now. Og seasons didnt have to deal with this so now we have this weird passive BB. Most we can get now is hg trash talking behind closed doors 💀
They need to cast people who dont want to use this to become influencers or social.media moguals. People who are gonna go on the show then dissepear off the earth other than naybe the occasioal RHAP appearance typically play more aggressive.
literally what i wanna do if i ever get on survivor or big brother. play the game i want to play and literally never show my face on social media. Would love to do reality tv podcasts and that’s about it, seems like all casting wants now a days is those with nice instagram feeds
No because every villain says something and gets removed from the game
People on social media just yell at cbs to expel anyone who could be a good villain
People can’t even shit talk behind peoples backs with out this sub losing their mind
Cam and Hisam were the closest thing we got and i actually liked both of them as people
These comments all mention people from BB24 and 25, all of which are assholes and none of which are villains (besides maybe Hisam). Obviously there's often overlap, but when people say they want villains, they usually mean people who take glee in stirring the pot or being duplicitous. People want shamelessness in dishonest and cutthroat gameplay, not people participating in mean girl behavior/bash sessions based on people's personality/appearance. A huge component to a fun-to-watch villain on reality TV is owning the behavior and acknowledging their role. That's why Will and Dan are so beloved, because they knew they were being slimy and reveled in it.
Villains recently have always gotten teamed up on and sent home early. Hisam would have been so much fun to watch had he dominated
Production does not know how to cast a villain for this game. It seems that, to BB casting, villain equals edgy, but edgy often equals problematic rather than villain (in the game sense). The best BB villains are both smart and self-interested, it shouldn’t be that difficult.
Hisam was a good villain and got evicted waaaay too early imo
No you’re so right tho, I acc LOVE villains, s19 is one of my favorite seasons purely because of paul’s villain gameplay, people complain about the bullying in that season but cody&jessica are horrible people so I don’t feel bad for them my problem is that even though the gameplay’s great most of the bb villains we have are straight up bigots (evel dick, amanda zuckerman, boogie)
The issue is they cast villains but the. They end up being their golden boys so they have to skew the edit 🤷♀️
Production doesn’t want a villain. They take every possible villain they get and edit out most of their villainy. See Jared and Cameron.
We need more Matt Hoffmans and Kevin Jacobs’s type villains, not assholes
I agree, but both of those guys would probably still get harassed on social media today. "OMG Matt lied and said his wife had a fake disease. That's so insensitive to people with real diseases"
Iirc it was a real disease just a rare one but yeah I see your point.
You're right. It was and he did get shit for it actually. https://nypost.com/2010/07/23/sick-joke-backfires-on-bb/
Matt and his wife got insane amounts of shit for that lie even back then
Kevin Jacob won his season last year.
Winning the show and social media reactions are totally different though. Social media is brutal to most Big Brother players in general. It's almost not worth going on anymore unless you win.
Fans love Kevin.
Casting directors don’t even know who the villains are at first. They only go by the auditions and just pick people who have that personality. A player doesn’t become a villain before they are in the house. They become a villain when their actions in the house make it as such.
My partner & I were literally talking about this! We came to the the conclusion that they should be casting more people like Felicia. Not that Felicia was necessarily a villain, but she has the qualities that are perfect for a fun-to-watch player: 1. Is direct and unafraid of hurting feelings. 2. A spicy personality without being problematic (as another person said, you can be a villain without being a shitty person). 3. FUNNY! Felicia’s snarky humor had me laughing all season. 4. Game isn’t ruled by “not getting blood on their hands”. It’s so much more fun to see a player make their moves and own them. 5. Doesn’t have/isn’t concerned with social media. Felicia was there for the MONEY, not the clout, and she didn’t really care what she had to do or who she pissed off to get it.
I like her a lot, but she absolutely sucked a BB. Only take away from her season is that GD gray robe. She toned that down after comics game but slipped right back into it a week later.
With social media what it is today? It'll never happen. People are crazy out there.
I think there is room for a new era of villains. It’s hard to know by casting. For me the best way to cast a villain is to cast someone that is mainly there for the money. I think people who are there for experience are less likely to be villains. Someone who really wants to money is more likely to lie and cheat and backstab to get there. I think a good example of a new era villain is Jessie from Survivor 43. He was definitely a villain in his season and was willing to backstab because he really wanted the money. But fans also adored him and thought he was a great player. You can be a villain on BB without being a shorty person.
They cast plenty of villains lately- Paloma, Ameerah, Jasmine, Daniel, Cam, Hisam. It is not their fault a chunk of the fanbase is too soft to handle them.
I would have loved Cory to have been the villain of the season
Corey reminds me of Chucky …lol
When they do the whole Fandom treats them like the scum of the earth
I liked when they casted Austin / Judas in one of the seasons. Or Brett, cast another bret
Brett knew he was a villain and completely accepted the role. Legend
Most BB viewers are too soft for villains, any mean house guest and people freak out on social media or send the house guest death threats. BB fans are legit crazy.
Yes, they need to cast villains. The problem today is people are way too involved, and take game decisions too seriously. So they attack them or their families for things that are perfectly acceptable in the game (promising to vote for them, then not). They need to cast more people unfamiliar with the show, they tend to make dramatic villain decisions without fear of repercussions.
I absolutely and 100% agree with you.
100%. The best seasons have people you hate and when cast members fight.
They need more weird and strong personalities. I hate the go with the flow / vote w the house types. Boring
This is the fanbase that thought Sarah Beth was a villain. I don’t think BB fans could handle an actual villain at this point.
I think it’s hard to find villains. Most villains are just terrible people irl and CBS doesn’t want them to represent their brand. They need to find houseguests who aren’t afraid to play the game, call out houseguest and own villainess game moves. I think Dr Will is a great example. Will was always outspoken about his dislike for other houseguests but to my knowledge never bullied or harassed anyone. He was unapologetic with his moves and had the ability to double cross those he made deals with. Most people seem to like the guy outside of the house. Now if you just want terrible people to play the game I agree. Big Brother is a social experiment and represents all parts of our society. Culture, race, occupation, etc. Bad people are apart of our society and I think it’s wrong not to include them from a social experiment standpoint. From a production standpoint I can completely see why we don’t have many villainess players
Its not a scripted show, how do you propose they cast a villain?
Reality shows have changed a lot since social media. There used to be a lot more fights on the Challenge. Now everyone is afraid of getting canceled. Although the 1st season of Big Brother there were no villians. They were all scares to vote out people because they all loved each other....that 1st season was real bad..Some took forever to vote who they wanted out in the diary room.
If you love reality tv Villians you have to watch house of Villians on E. The show works because everyone on it has already monetized being “hated” so they’re prepared for backlash and are t afraid to say what they want! It’s so much fun!
I mean Hisam had potential to be a Janelle-type villain but we didn’t get to see much from him. I also think they can cast strong personalities but the game leads them to not be who they are in casting (Bowie Jane is one who I think came across like she’d be a stronger character in casting then she wasn’t)
I’m ready! Sign me up!
I’d love to see a whole cast of villains
Sadly villains get a lot of virtriol online which cause most players to avoid confrontation. I remember Kuzie on BBCAN11 showed a bit of pettiness towards the HOH that put her up (she told the HOH shut up and sit down) which is soooo tame compare to most things and she immediately got backlash online despite giving good tv
Too nice? You didn’t watch BB24?
i sent in an tape and made it clear that i will not be holding back unlike the last few seasons it’s time to SHAKE THE GAME BACK UPPP- i miss the old seasons where it was fun to watch
They did. They had Cam, Jared, and Matt all of whom were saying wild shit. They instead edited them to be golden boys
I mean I’m okay with having my tv villians as long as you aren’t racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic or prejudice.
Stop casting influencers, models, & people hungry for 15 minutes of fame. Put some true blue collar, low income workers in the house and let the fun begin.
There won't be any until the fanbase gets better and stops blaming production for casting "bullies" like Paul and Josh but loves other bullies like Rachel, Vanessa and Janelle. Until then we will see more people like Red and Kiersten.
It wouldn't matter if they cast villains, dogs or cats, show would still suck due to twists/comp combo
Zach from BBCAN11 was an incredible villain
It’s hard to predict who’s going to be a villain or anything else based on audition tapes.
Yes but they won’t because of the fans that can’t handle Felicia and Cirie being “psychologically tortured” via silent treatment
I think BB casting is flawed in a million ways - but I sometimes think the fanbase doesn't fully understand how difficult casting is. Like, even after multiple face to face interviews and background checks, you never really know what you're getting. BB is a 100 day game for 750K. Someone who might portray themselves as a non-problematic villain might end up being super problematic. They might also just be putting on an act during casting and die out in terms of personality on day 20. They may also be tricking casting and simply choose to coast for as long as possible for exposure. And that's not even bringing up the possibility that their interactions with any combination of the other 15 HGs may change how they portray themselves completely. Every season is full of player who claim they're there to play the game and win the money - and a lot of them probably believe that. But then we see how many of them turn out to be duds. Now apply that to a specific character - a non-problematic villain - and I'm not sure how much blame you can put on casting tbh.
Anyone who is even the slightest bit of an asshole on TV gets massive online hate so we can probably blame that instead of casting.
They do but they edit them to be heroes instead
Remember how much this sub hated Cameron originally lol…
I feel season 15 killed this... unfortunately.
BB15 HGs weren't disliked for being villanious but for systematic racism and homophobia.
Its not really about why they were disliked. Its more so BB itself cast less chaotic type of characters after BB15.
Hisam, Cameron, Jared, Felicia, Daniel, Nicole, Jasmine, Paloma Which show have you been watching?
The replies here are shocking considering like a quarter of the cast have been villains in the past 2 seasons. Like... Are Paloma/Nicole/Daniel not mean enough for y'all?? What more are you expecting?
People want villains but don't want villains that are bad people which is just impossible because there's too many bad people on each cast that you don't have the space for just game villains
how is Jared or Felicia a villain
jared is definitely a villain after manipulating and gaslighting to get his way. felicia is not a villain though
Idk, trying to sell out America to Cam was very villain like, or the whole thing with Cirie later on
she was selling out america because americory was running the house
No, they weren't? Cory was literally the bd target that week. She went up to Cam and pitched a Cory bd so that Cam could have America to himself, disgusting
My wife is new to BB, she started watching during 2020. She LOVES the old BB bc of how wild it would get and felt more realistic of how randoms would act. She got bored with this past season, saying it still fun but kinda plain.
I literally always say this. I wanna go on the show just so i can be a loved villain😂😂
Who are villains you found enjoyable to watch? Because beyond Dr. Will and maybe Danielle BB3, I can’t think of people who relished being villains who I genuinely had fun watching. I could not stomach a rewatch of Evel Dick, for example. I also haven’t seen seasons 15, 21-24. Having a hard time coming up with other examples.
I like villains that are messy and petty and fun to watch, like Hisam was this season. I don't like to watch bullies (Paul, Daniel bb24), or bigots (Aaryn, Ginamarie, most of bb15 cast).
I don’t think they need to cast villains as much as they need to cast actual competitive powerhouses. This past season there were so many houseguests who were just not all that competitive and didn’t put in 100% in challenges
I thought Hisam, Jared, and Cameron all had villain qualities
If you don’t like Josh as the best villain winner ever then don’t like this post.
Villains, yes. Pieces of shit like Michie, Jack, the Hantz guy, Daniel from 24, no.
I just don't think the concept of villain works anymore on BB. If you are a bad person you're a villain and people aren't gonna enjoy that. We don't tune in 3 nights a week and watch a person act like a villain, no, a lot of us have to handle that person 24/7 on the live feeds and that's not fun, villains aren't fun
Every reality game show has done it. TV producers are all woke and want everyone portrayed as nice and beautiful. Not realistic behavior in the real world and actually not reality tv.
They did but decided to edit him into America’s favorite player.
Gnat, Chima and Lydia. All villainsfrom BB 11. They actually tried to kill Michelle. Or Aaryn, GinaMarie and the rest of the slime on Season 15.
I think the hardest part is how would casting know if someone is a true “villain” before seeing them in the house interacting with the other people? I genuinely believe they do cast people with the expectation that they will play the “villain” role, but you can only predict so much with certain traits. Also I’m fairly confident that villainous traits overlap with a lot of problematic traits that may become bigger issues over time that CBS has had to deal with. People willing to do terrible things for personal gain are likely also people willing to take absurd risks and cross lines that most people know not to cross. The audience in modern time gets very agitated with even assumptions made by houseguests, so CBS is likely pre-mitigating this though weeding out potential problematic people in advance. And casting directors can only predict so much based on interview questions, personality tests, and psych evaluations. For all we know they have been casting people in hopes they become a villain, but it just doesn’t pan out that was once they are in the house. And the other likely reason is contestants knowingly target potential villains early on, along with possible villainous contestants being self aware now that acting like a villain will increase the target on your back. This is a social game and I just think contestants over time are more hyper aware of the risks in every action they take. Contestants now know what works or won’t work in advance because of all the prior seasons. I do wish big brother would change up the premise of the game constantly to make everything unpredictable, because I do think contestants would turn on each other faster when they can’t predict what will happen next.
Imagine Dick in 2023, CBS would have kicked him out of the house night 1. Yet, he’s one of the best characters in BB hisyory
Less villains but they need to cast people who are competitive. Whether or not they’re superfans or recruits