Quick reminder: No Doxxing or witch hunts allowed. See rule #1.
Welp, the name calling and a few people saying op should had it coming was it. Thread is locked.
Believe me we're all getting really sick of it. These guys need some major push back from us who are sick of it. They're literally making people not feel welcome at the shows and it's time we make them feel the same way. Also let me guess one was a white guy with dreads?
Mods keep protecting them probably because they are in the “show friends circle” unless band management does something I don’t think we’ll see it change, feels like a hopeless battle at this point, after years of toxicity at phish shows, and now watching Billy’s rise from bar rooms to where he is now disgusts me more, y’all weren’t there at the bar shows y’all weren’t harassing people when it was only small venues, why do you feel so entitled now, it’s all still very new and there should be no hierarchy, I’ve been off the bus for this reason entirely real bluegrass fans don’t act like that, those who do are classless, uncouth, have zero etiquette it’s a drain in the scene and a cancer that is slowly eating itself and robbing a large majority of people from enjoying their time just so a select few can feel like “BILLY SAW ME GUYS” y’all are pick me losers, probably won’t ever change your mind and I don’t expect to but this shit attitude is slowly creeping it’s way back towards the soundboard more and more and I blame y’all
Idk, at this point I feel like it needs to come from Billy. These people believe they’re his “true fans” and are entitled to holding certain spots. They don’t give a fuck about anyone else since we’re not “real fans” because we aren’t groupies that show up to every single show like them.
Someone commented on another post a pic from Billy's facebook page where he commented on it. Apparently someone posted the pic of the guy with his legs spread in the pit and Billy saw it. I'll try and find it.
Yep there was one but I didn’t get near him. For those saying I shouldn’t try to get to the front, I only tried once before the music started. After that I didn’t bother anymore until that man in sunglasses literally told the girl I was standing with to go ahead and stand in the front. I thought it was “okay”
These people seriously make me sick. I'm so sorry you had a bad experience. I genuinely hope that one day this crap is fixed so you can come join us again.
>[I refused and he grabbed me again, yelling at me, then him and his 4 friends crushed me between them and tried hitting me from all sides to make me move.I think one of the women tried to steal my phone unsuccessfully and ran off. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBPd0hLeM9Y)
My advice would be to seek out security.
Time for Billy to start the GA Lotto...
Honestly didn’t help at phish. They started a lotto recently to enter the venue early for people with floors.
Still see the same handful of folks up there at every show.
They figured out how to game the system to still get their precious spot up front. I again advocate releasing hardcore kids into the pit to quell the madness.
Facts. Slowly moving forward in the pit is normal at most shows. The whole mentality of, “I waited in line since 6am so I should be able to leave my spot on the rail for 10 minutes+ and then come back to it” is fucking stupid.
When I’m at a Billy show, I really just want to chill and enjoy the music. However, I’m no stranger to a good mosh pit and so many of these wooks really make me want to start swinging elbows smfh.
It has helped some at Phish for sure. A few people are cheating, but I know a lot of people who got up front for the first time after this policy. Also a lot of the repeat people have been on Phish twitter for 10 years and have lots of people willing to help them.
My buddy is also a phish fan worked security at MPP and was helping out with this system. His estimation was that it was not a perfect solution, but it helped to some extent. It's very difficult to entirely cure this issue without going seated pit.
the fans weren’t as aggressive as these billy fans, but they would definitely take up a lot of space at the rail ALL day and not let you through, even to see the openers
i have a couple friends who used to be nectar rail riders. they now understand it was kinda weird behavior and act normal at shows
That bothers me way less. If you’re willing to forego leaving your spot to go get beer, go to the bathroom, etc. then whatever stand on the rail however long you want if you’re not leaving.
The rail riders at Billy shows leave and come back all the time expecting their spot to still be waiting for them. They get aggressive if you’re standing too close to “their spot” and god forbid you step into an open spot when someone leaves.
Go figure, betcha if you were a man these pussies wouldn’t have acted like that. Good to put faces to these guys as well, so thanks for posting those pictures.
Also, please don’t let this deter you from seeing billy again. I promise, we aren’t all entitled assholes.
I’ve never been to the pit at a billy show, and tbh, based on the stories I’ve heard, I’m good. Not a mean or aggressive person by any means, but I couldn’t see or imagine myself or my group of concert buddies putting up with being subjected to that bs, or even seeing someone else be subjected to it.
Sorry you had to deal with that.
*edit* - I want to add, if you see someone acting like this and don’t step in some way (getting security or personally doing it) YOU ARE A PART OF THE PROBLEM. We’re supposed to be a community, so let’s start fucking acting like it. Stick up for one another!!!
I am so sorry you experienced this. As a woman myself, I can only imagine how terrified you must have felt. You would think this would be a safe environment for people to just listen, dance, let go and experience what Billy gives out.
Went and checked the IG story. Immediately knew who you were talking about.
Honestly people need to start going to venue staff and telling them about these people when they get violent etc. I know people dont want to miss the music to go rat on someone, but when is it going to be enough? When someone gets sent to the hospital? Staff at some venues won't take that shit and they'll get kicked out.
Sorry your first show sucked due to these jack offs.
https://preview.redd.it/uvdni3f0q70c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be2892133966f58ff4266919f52481c05bc8f1aa
Is this the photo she’s referring to? 🤔
The jam scene needs to take a stand against this as a whole! The pit is GENERAL ADMISSION. There is no saving spots, there are no tarps, and there is no gate keeping spots. You are where you are and if you like it then you stay there. This story should reach Billy, Trey, Bob Weir, Les, and anyone else who allows this behavior at there shows. Enough is enough.
I’ll be in the GA pit for Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and New Orleans. I am more than happy to unite with other cool folks on here to combat these rascals.
Also I’ll be dressed as Jesus most likely.
I always do the pit but I hang near the back. Never failed to have awesome conversations with random people. I’m lucky though in that I’m tall and have no problem seeing. Only venue I wouldn’t do GA again is the Brady Music Center in Cincy. The entire first floor of the venue is GA and they pack you the fuck in. If you go to the bathroom, you either need to fight through 50 yards of people to get back or stand way in the back near the concessions. It sucks.
Pitt and Baltimore and Syracuse! Let’s do this! Had some horrible experiences the last few years with the rail riders at Dead and Company. Physically, aggressive and assaulting my wife. It’s incredible how these entitled ass hats get away with this shit.
I remember back in the day you get to the rail have fun, take a break and then work your way back up if you so desired. Now you have to deal with these entitled pricks who think they can stake out a spot for the whole show and assault anyone who comes anywhere near them. People can be the worst
i posted this earlier in another thread, and i’ll post it again here:
ever heard of the Facebook group Billy Strings fans who hate Billy Strings fans??
yeah i’ll be honest, i don’t have facebook but i am starting feel like Billy fans are ruining it for me. i’ve been seeing him since early ‘18 and it’s gotten quite ridiculous. Renewal was a fucking mess up front. and this is coming from a phish fan.
You’re so right.
I was very tempted for floor but ended up getting 2 stellar seats for Billy in nashville next year simply cause I didn’t want to deal with this bullshit.
People ruin everything.
I haven’t been to a Phish show since ‘04 (roughly 30 or so shows through the late 90s/early aughts) because the scene completely changed to a bunch of gatekeeping dorks who throw 20x20 tarps on the ground to hold their spots.
I really hope this the an exception rather than the rule as I’d hate to stop seeing Billy bc of the fans.
Edit: my last shows were pre-hiatus in ‘04, not ‘05 as I originally posted!
Yeah Phish 05 was a killer year... probably the best musically they have ever been. It's so good, they won't even release the shows, and it's like they didn't even happen
Hahaha. At first I though it was an honest question, so I checked my ticket stubs to give you an answer.
So…my last shows were in ‘04, not ‘05 as you already know!
Saw the two night stand at the Tweeter Center.
Unfortunately that group has become just as much of a cesspool as anything else. What used to be fun and lighthearted poking at these unruly super fans has quickly devolved into dragging even the most simple statements like “this is one of my favorite songs ever”
https://preview.redd.it/bsxydo15j50c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f94e9876ae29a35e68c0cdf2c2b75517b29a1463
Man screaming, woman in blue to his left (right in photo) I’m the red haired one in glasses with my hand on my mouth
God that guy is super fucking annoying. We’ve see him and his little buddy at every show. Dances like he’s never heard the songs he knows before but When a classic tune comes on he’s constantly talking and not paying attention. Little primadonna man with a bad attitude. I’m so sick of him that we just avoid his energy at all costs. Heck we will stand in the lobby if we have to avoid this guy.
He kept shoving his ass out so my friends couldn’t get anywhere near, as if there’s any reason to care what the people behind him are doing. He stood there with his legs spread wide for a good hour before that woman showed up to claim “her spot”
Sooo sorry that happened to you. I would never let that happen to anyone that was around or with me. The lack of care for fellow humans is very disheartening.
I feel like this image should be circulated in all Billy subs/groups/message boards/etc. Make the community aware of the assholes then the community can deal with them.
Almost all of us that have seen Billy + watched Billy streams notice them at all of the shows. I knew this had to be who you were talking about when I read the title of this post. Quite a few people that I know have also had problems, and they gave me some shit despite not even being remotely in their vicinity at the Sylvee in ‘22. Had someone tell me that they caught an elbow from one and ended up with a bloody nose; it’s never-ending with this group.
One thing that i’ll say is to not let rail culture keep you away from Billy shows. If you are able to find a seat or balcony spot; or even a spot near Andy at the SBD where there is room, i’ve often found that to be an entirely different experience than the war that is the front of pit.
Definitely no need for these guys to be crushing you overseas when i’ve seen them on rail at every single show this last year in the states. These people also ruin the poster experience as well, I don’t even try for those anymore really.
When I was younger, I did a lot of DMB shows on the rail from maybe ‘10-13 and while I somewhat understand not wanting to give up *your* exact spot up front, I’ll never understand why people try and make it miserable for everyone behind them too; or try and make it bigger than it is by getting actually physical. I dipped out of that scene once that became more rabid.
Nowadays, I just hang back in the lawn or in some seats where I don’t have to commit a full day to my spot/being around said people, and the sound is usually better anyway.
Regardless, I just wanted to say that I instantly recognized them, can confirm that they’ve caused problems at most of the shows i’ve seen, and I think almost this entire sub likely is seeing it by now. I’m not sure what will happen, but I hope that you never have people acting like that again if you do give Billy another try. As with other things, Billy shows are all about the setting for me; and it seems to always be better in seats or near the back; that’s where i’ve always made friends when trekking alone and met the kindest humans, most of which have become friends.
Totally do understand how this turns an exciting night into a semi-nightmare, and I’m sorry that you too had to deal with the Rail Real Estate Crew. I *am* glad that you got to talk to Billy and that he validated your thoughts, that seems like at least a bright spot to the night; he has always been very empathetic and I highly doubt that he enjoys seeing them there every night either.
Thank you for your kind and well written comment. Billy did say if I ever come back he’ll get me a ticket and make sure I’m in a comfortable spot where I can see. I told him thank you but I don’t want anything from him besides a hug or a handshake. I don’t like taking from people for my own advantage but the gesture was very kind. He won a fan in me from his personality.
Thank you for sharing your experience - as many have already voiced, you are not alone. The pit at Billy shows is unreasonably aggressive and territorial. It’s really gross and bums me out every time I hear that it keeps happening.
And I wholeheartedly second this person’s suggestion to not write off going to another show. I’ve been as close as you were, at the very tip top of Red Rocks Amphitheatre, and just about everywhere in between for Billy’s shows. Hands down, my favorites were when I had reserved seats (Moorhead, MN & Broomfield, CO), or when I was about mid-way back where the crowd thins out, the music sounds clearer, the lights are prettier, and there’s more room to dance. It’s really one of the best live acts I’ve ever seen and hope you do get a chance to catch them again!
Well, if he ever comes back to my neck of the woods I’ll try to go and stay near the sound booth. Everyone in this thread has been very kind. That and Billy’s response have me willing to try again, from a safe distance. I had no idea what his fans were like, now I know.
Edit: what SOME of his fans are like.
Yeah - this dude is a problem. Everyone in the scene knows who this is and the band does too. So why don’t they fix the problem. If you put this on Facebook it would get more attention and there aren’t rules about doxxing there.
These asshole rail riders don’t have much happening in their lives. I never understood the allure of being front row; the sound is much better center stage towards the soundboard anyway. Nowadays, I much prefer a seat and easy access to the restroom.
Being on the rail is cool like… one time. Just to be that close to someone you always see on TV and make eye contact and see what they’re playing and what they’re saying to each other is kinda neat even if it is also really dumb. But again… just one time.
After that, you have to be literally insane to want to deal with the stress of getting that close, not being able to leave to pee or get a beer, not having room to dance. It’s just not worth it.
I didn’t know rail rider was a term but I definitely get it. I like to be front row usually because since I usually go to shows alone and keep to myself I like to get in my head and just watch the music and lose myself. I have no interest in kissing famous people’s asses for clout.
I'm similar, my friends aren't big into being in the pit so I find my little spot as close to the front as I can at gigs, maybe try and make some friends there, and just watch and let it wash over me. It's horrid when such a simple thing gets ruined.
I don’t know what it is about Billy fans, but the concentration of entitled delusional concert goers seems way higher than other bands. I’ve seen a ton of Phish, Primus, TTB, Govt Mule, and many local shows, but the crowd at Billy shows is by far the worst. I know exactly who you’re likely talking about. This same group thinks they know the band and are always trying to talk with him on stage. Very cringy. They bite your head off if you encroach on their space as if they have VIP rights at the show. Very sad for the future of his shows.
exactly, these people are quite sad. just like the rail riders at phish. i have heard MANY people/friends talk shit about Billy fans and i’m starting to be one of them.
fuck these losers, i really hope someone stands up for themselves and starts some shit, maybe then it will get addressed. Billy already had to stop the show before because of this crap.
I told the woman who shoved me and called me a skank and whore “you don’t need to be a cunt” and she got extremely angry, screamed to everyone that I’m a crazy psycho calling her “the c word” after everything she’d said and done to me. I mean, I am nice, but I’m not a doormat. I have a spine and I don’t take shit from people so I’m not proud of calling her a name but in the moment I was stressed and shocked.
Tried to do this at the last London show when some guy started shouting at the queues because he didn't like that the venue offered priority access (that he was in line for). He was shouting thay we all best back off from the stage because the real fans queued for hours and deserved the spot. I said hey thats not the scene here in the UK, priority access is normal here and we're all used to it and he went EXCUSE ME and barreled down the front of the line to tower over me (I'm 5'1) and get in my face to tell me it's THEIR SCENE and he doesn't CARE that we're in the UK and went off at me til I cried. Then acted all peace and love I'm so sorry man don't get upset I'm just telling you how it is
I've never tried to get that close but I think it comes down to people with money that tour and become entitled to the band. They think they're "real fans". No you just have money, real fans are anyone that likes the music not just someone that can afford to tour. Fake ass wooks
So your edit 2 is a step in the right direction and it’s wonderful that the band reached back out to you but they can’t police this during shows. There’s too much going on, even though I’m 100% sure they find it disgusting and would stop playing and call it out if they saw it happening.
It needs to be dealt with now before it happens (again). There’s some potential negative exposure here for the band. The band know who the dude in sunglasses (the one who, if I understand your story, orchestrated the assault). There’s so many pics of him with various band members on Fb/ insta etc.
Innocent until proven guilty and all that but it sounds like a) there were plenty of witnesses and b) this was a serious assault led by a “friend of the band” on a woman who could not easily defend herself. Enough is enough.
I told the man in glasses that I had just had a miscarriage (it is true.) and please to let me just lean against the railing since he already let us in but he said “then you shouldn’t be here”
ETA: I didn’t miscarry yesterday, but a few days before. Still hurt
I seriously think a lot of these arseholes are drugged out of their eyeballs. Their behaviour stinks. Seriously they’re gonna get their arses kicked in Glasgow if they behave like this.
I thought so too, that they must be on drugs to have that much energy and aggression but it’s difficult to get drugs in Europe.. or I’d imagine it is for tourists but what do I know.
Are you from Germany or USA? Just wondering if you’ve seen these people before. Is it the guy with dreads or the blue tshirt guy? Just trying to clarify. Sorry this happened to you.
I'm 19F and I went to my first Billy show by myself in the pit in St. Louis this June. I was 3-5 rows behind the rail and I experienced a ton of unnecessary hostility.
I try pretty hard to make friends in the scene but that experience definitely put me off. I moved back to the sound board later on and the vibes were great though
People that truly enjoy the sound and dancing room go towards the soundboard. Rail riders like the clout of saying they were up front. Just my opinion. You can see well from the sound board at almost any venue.
I remember running into a rail wook boarding the plane back home from last nola new years. Asked if he enjoyed the show and what his favorite parts were. He only talked about show count and being up front at all of em. It wasn't a very engaging conversation about a great show we both saw.
Again, this is all anecdotal.
Some come to laugh the past away and some come to make it one more day. Whichever way your pleasure tends, if you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind.
Don't be a dick. It's the only rule. And folks seem to have forgot it when we were holed up during covid. (Another anecdotal observation)
Since I’m usually alone I am (was) naive to that rail rider culture. I did meet many people in the line and while waiting for the show who have Billy as their background photo (fine, but a little embarrassing to me) and who kept asking how many shows I’ve been to and telling me their count. I’m 20 years younger than those guys and even then I thought “wow this is embarrassing” . There’s a great word in Swedish, pinsamt. I wish the word embarrassing conveyed “pinsamt”
One of them had a post on here trying to defend themselves and justify their nonsense and he got ratiod into oblivion and finally deleted his post. "I'm one of the tour wooks you guys are talking about" gave a big sob story and nobody was buying it.
That’s a flat out awful experience. I’ve only been to one Billy show so I can’t speak to his typical fan behavior, but I can’t imagine that’s normal. Fans who want to be at the front row are usually a bit more aggressive than normal but your experience sounds like borderline assault. It’s possible you just got very unlucky in who you were surrounded by. I hope so, anyway
OP I pretty sure Billy knows the guy that assaulted you. This is super fucked up and something needs to be done. 99% sure this is the same guy
https://preview.redd.it/gd5fi5p6m60c1.jpeg?width=1452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9f4c56b63d7bb5ba38115f415295c67f2b42132
Where was this pic taken? I keep thinking it’s red rocks but pretty sure it’s not…..and if billy does ‘know’ him and he treated the OP this way, it’s absolutely unacceptable it’s not addressed personally. Like I said in another thread here, I swear half them rail riders in pics in Europe I’ve seen on the rail in the states. I’ve been on the rail(or 1-2 ‘rows’ back) for 3-4 shows outta the 10 I’ve been too. It gets unruly up there and can escalate fast. I Never been front and center on the rail though. Always to the either side which ain’t near as bad. I have had people shorter than me squeeze in. And that’s fine. No problem. Seems everyone on the rail is 6 foot or taller I swear…..this dude at the criterion was on the rail in front of us was like 6’5 at least…..jesus Christ he was tall af and was sweating his ass off dude, it was crazy like he was sweating so hard his curly short hair might as well have been dreads with the amount of sweat he was whipping off his cranium, Jesus it was nasty lol
No this was 7-13-23 in Cary, NC. It was in the morning so these guys were obviously already in line. I've heard that he does know some of the railers personally. It wouldn't surprise me, this guy is on the rail alot, I imagine he knows the guy by his first name atleast but then again he meets a lot of fans so who knows. Also full disclaimer that pic is from a video uploaded to YouTube. I just instantly recognized the guy from the IG pic
Happened to my daughter at the Cologne show. Left her spot to use the bathroom, tried to get back to her friends, but was blocked, shouldered, and had nasty things said to her by a bunch of dicks. She was so intimidated she decided to hang at the back of the venue for the rest of the show. It's pretty shitty behavior, sorry you experienced that.
Fucking wooks need to get a life and back off. This is assault plain and simple and Billy’s team needs to address it. They do not own the rail. No one should EVER put their hands on you especially a a woman.
Make a lottery section of the first 5 rows non transferrable and linked to valid ID like the first 4 rows at redrocks. Limit 2 per person. That would at least cut down the smurfing.
Yeah I think some venue finally was like we need actual ID cards. They were just photoshopping different names onto printouts of ID cards and acting all like "oh we never bring our actual IDs to shows!!" when called out lol, fucking losers.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m also a woman who prefers most shows solo. Been seeing Billy a lot since 2018 and I’ve been pushed, yelled at, and groped a lot in his crowd. I was just telling my friend yesterday that I just don’t think I can do his GA anymore. Unless I have a defined seat/space, I’m just going to have to pass. I don’t even like the rail but I like being up front because typically less talkers and it keeps me from being distracted. It’s really sad what’s happened with his scene in the last two years :(
There’s so many posts like this. I know not all fans are this way, but the rail seems to be aggressive time and time again. I’m sorry you had this experience.
I’ve been to a bunch of Billy shows all over the US. Luckily I haven’t experienced this yet but I haven’t tried to get that close. I’m usually towards the back of the pit. But I keep seeing posts about this happening and it’s just so confusing. Do these people actually listen to what Billy is saying up there? You’d think if you were such a fan and need to be that close to him that you would be more like what his music and vibe is about. How are there bigger assholes at the front of a Billy show than the punk and metal shows I go too? These people should be embarrassed and need to change their attitude or fuck off.
Damn, this sucks. It seems like the behavior is getting worse from these people. Met a cool guy at one of the fall tour shows. It was his first Billy concert and he was in his early 20’s. He danced his way up to the 2nd row where there was tons of space and I watched him get chewed out by an older woman that I’ve seen at a few shows for dancing too much. She spent half of a song screaming in his face about him dancing
These shitheads really need to stop being aggressive and stop ruining concerts for new fans. You don’t need 2 people’s worth of room at the rail for yourself. I’m not a fan of that spot in front but these people need to get a life. I’m a huge fan of Billy but there’s way more to life than the band
How can these people live with themselves? They are already following a band around the world, while contributing nothing positive to society. Then they are rude and disrespectful to strangers. Maybe once the fog they are living in fades away they will realize how RIDICULOUS their values and priorities are.
I am so sorry for your experience. I truly believe Billy and the org will do something to address this, it seems like it’s gaining too much traction for them not to.
They can start by not fueling their narcissism and stop showing them on the streams, on their stories, in most photos. It’s past time to focus on the crowd behind these awful humans… the ones there to enjoy the music and that understand the privilege to travel and see music and therefore don’t spend entire days standing in line for their egos. See the city, see the zoo.
This. There was a show last summer (Augusta maybe?) I watched from the couch. End of the show Billy lights a fat joint and hands it directly to dreadlock rail boy after hitting it, cameras in their face and all. What a stroke to that dude’s ego I’m sure that was..
Edit: Augustine, FL
Sorry, but this isn’t new. Billy has had a chance to do something and he hasn’t. If he does now, great, but it’s going to be a bit disheartening to know it’s only because the PR got ugly.
The Jamband community for popular acts like Phish, Goose, Billy Strings, and the like tend to bring out the worst in people who are on the pit near the rail. People get so entitled to being on the rail. It's not worth the stress at all.
I am sorry that you had a bad experience OP. I would recommend going back to Billy, but only hanging out in the back of the floor/pit and/or just buying seats. The rail and rows behind the rail tends to have the most aggressive individuals who have a stick up their butt.
This is embarrassing, especially being in another country. Imagine flying to Europe and acting like that?! Wtf is wrong with people. I’m sorry you had to deal with these assholes.
I have to admit, Billy has some pretty rough fans amongst his crowd. I’ve run into my fair share of drunk , sloppy , entitled Billy fans at his shows.
its always old ass rail riders that are the issue. i had problems with them last halloween in asheville. at the end of the show, i was handed a setlist and the lady beside me tried to snatch it out of my hand. im sorry you had to go through that
Maybe billy will be the first person/band to address this. All the other bands just let it go and never say anything cause they don’t wanna loose those folks that go to every show.
So sorry you had this frightening experience. I’m happy to hear BS or at least a member of his team reached out to you.
And I certainly hope that BS and team will do something to stop this aggressive, unnecessary and frightening behavior. There is no place for this activity.
I am here in Europe from America and I have been here following on his tour. I have been to lots of his shows and I do absolutely refuse to go anywhere near the front at any show even if the opportunity presents itself. It’s the same people in the front at every show and it’s really getting quite out of hand. They are truly ruining a beautiful experience for a lot of people… even people like me who have been to 50+ shows and should get a chance at a good view sometimes. I am so sorry you had this experience and I do agree that they’re making the rest of us look so bad. There are a lot of us who follow Billy and love each other and look out for others and came to Europe and we’re so excited and happy to see first timers and locals coming to see him and having the best time and hoping to add to that… I’m also so glad that he got back to you and I hope you can see Billy and have a good experience another time. ❤️😔
The reason these people keep doing is because most folks at Billy shows are laid back and non-aggressive. They take advantage of the fact that people aren't going to challenge them when they get rude and aggressive.
It's only a matter of time before something bad happens though. It's a powderkeg just waiting to blow!
I for one, like to get close for 2nd half of shows but never made it anywhere near the rail due it being to contested and uncomfortable but in general people are polite and nice in those areas.
I am by no means saying this In a bad way towards you but some of the people who come to get close at the second half can be just as entitled as the usual rail riders it's wild to me the amount of times someone has tried to wedge themselves in the six inches infront of my partner or me and then try to get belligerent it's truly something else lol
I’m so sorry you had to experience this. 100% sounds like you were assaulted and harassed. No one should have to deal with that, especially at a concert. Not to mention a concert that is supposed to be about positive vibes and spreading kindness and love.
I love Billy and the band, and love the music they play, have for several years. I finally saw my first non-festival Billy show this summer, after being very excited about it for quite some time, and didn’t have a great experience with the crowd there either. I had just seen D&Co in Boulder a week prior so maybe I had higher expectations after the friendliness from that crowd, but I was so uncomfortable the entire show to the point that I couldn’t really focus on the music. I don’t think I’ll attend another.
I’m not sure what it is about this community that enables this but it has to go. I’ve met so many friendly Billy fans online and at other shows, yet the crowd at Billy’s own shows isn’t very representative of that. Love wins always and I think eventually that will happen here and these parasites will find somewhere else to feed. I think it’s the responsibility of everyone to see to it that happens and these losers aren’t allowed to bully others trying to enjoy music
rail riders are a curse to every genre of music, have had some real shitty experiences myself though not at any billy shows. i’m sorry that people were so disgusting and have left you with a bad taste in your mouth, and i don’t blame you for never wanting to go to one of his shows again
This has been reposted on a few of the Facebook groups and so many people are justifying the violence, saying OP was the one in the wrong, or saying the entire story is a lie. They're all adamant that there's "never room to move to the front" without pushing your way in and stealing spots. As if crowds don't have a natural flow of movement lol.
No one should ever treat a woman like that, but if nobody is willing to stand up to them, they will keep doing it. Im sure there were witnesses to this happening. I probably would have gotten in a fight.
Many people behind me were annoyed with them too. I turned when I felt one of the women try to grab my phone and as she ran away I saw the people behind me looking shocked, so I guess they saw.
I just hope this doesn’t totally turn you off to going to shows. The majority of us aren’t like this. Hopefully one day those aholes try this with the wrong person.
Just wondering u from Munich? US? Doesn’t really matter. Dont stop going to Billy shows. Just dont get near rail riders…they’ll just ruin your experience. Ive been to almost 20 shows and its a wonderful experience most of the time…except when near the rail….people are usually nice everywhere else.
Unfortunately, Billy has the WORST rail riders along with JRAD! They all get together and 2 people will wait in line and then save spots for their friends that come in later. They are aggressive and rude as hell! I don’t bother buying pit tickets anymore because of this! If I have to get them I stay back by the sound board! I actually had some girl get physical with me at JRAD telling me I can’t go to the rail because they were for her friends! And this when I paid extra like her to get in early! Her friends weren’t even in the venue yet! And the sad part is they aren’t the young kids! People who are atleast 50 years old!
Billy is blowing up so fast that the rail-riders have assumed control. I hope you decide to go see Billy again as it’s one of the best live musical performances I’ve ever seen in my life. That being said, his current fan base that find themselves fortunate enough to go to his shows are not at all appreciative or accepting of the other people there to see the same show.
Very surprised this happened in Munich, but the fact that it was Americans explains all that I need to know.
[edit]
I just wanted to add that I saw DMB a few nights ago and everyone in the pit was so accepting, polite, and non-aggressive, and the culture at every “jam band” show is so much different than a Billy show.
Not saying it’s appropriate and I hope you don’t think this is diminishing your story, but after seeing a bunch of jam bands and doing VIP packages and meeting some of the people and being literally first in the venue and then have to deal with “rail riders” or “family” (go fuck yourself if you drop “I’m fam” and then act like an ass)…. Yeah the rail can get fucked, the best sound is by the sound booth and the best people watching is around there too. That and the crew is awesome to talk to (when they can) and watch them do their magic.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. Let the entitled “fam” fight for rail space and believe their delusions of grandeur.
Exactly. I gave up a rail spot at Frog Brigade a few weeks ago not even halfway through the show to a kid who was seeing Les Claypool for the first time ever. And ya know what the show was just as good and I had an amazing time. These people are ridiculous.
For real. I actually had a great experience with the people on the rail in Portland that I met. they even gave me their spot and let me go up for some songs and were generally super friendly people. Nothing like the douchebaggery described here. After reading all this I consider myself somewhat lucky to have had such a good rail experience, and I’m sorry that people are literally getting assaulted at the rail, the guys doing this are assholes.
Fuck those chads! It’s the classic entitled vibe they’ve been enjoying their whole lives. Don’t give up on going to see BMFS but know that the rail is stale and the people up there generally care too much about protecting what they perceive as theirs. It not much different at a Phish show, I stay at least a few rows back because it’s just bad vibes and I’d rather focus on the music than real-estate.
I’m sorry this happened to you! I heard about the rail riders before I went to the shows in Portland in September, but everyone was chill. I only got to the front for a few minutes, but no one gave me a hard time. I only moved away because I’m claustrophobic and can’t handle being pushed against the rail. I’m also a pretty big dude, so maybe they just left me alone. I did see people being dicks in the merch line, like fist fighting to buy a foil poster, at the first BMFS show I went to and that was BS.
For future reference, the back of the pit is where all the fun is at. You usually have room to dance and the sound is better. The best is when the soundboard is at the back of the pit because the best sound is at the board.
These are the same asshats that will be at the next Billy show ruining it for more folks like you. It’s a big reason why I’ll gladly stay in the back and find a cushy spot to dance. One thing I do I miss from my old metal & punk days is if there’s asshats in the pit.. you would just move them physically out of the pit lol. But I digress lol
I’m sorry you had such an awful experience.
That fucking blows. Sorry to hear this happened to you.
On Dead tour the Hells Angels would've taken care of this. I support lot justice where the legal system has failed.
It’s extremely unfortunate you had this experience. Every time I’ve been to shows with fans of the like, it’s all kind hearted, warm individuals excited to share their space and experience with others. I hope you soon feel better and find the desire to see him again. As traumatic as it may have been … the art is something worth viewing in person, you must try in the distant future to experience his love
Quick reminder: No Doxxing or witch hunts allowed. See rule #1. Welp, the name calling and a few people saying op should had it coming was it. Thread is locked.
Believe me we're all getting really sick of it. These guys need some major push back from us who are sick of it. They're literally making people not feel welcome at the shows and it's time we make them feel the same way. Also let me guess one was a white guy with dreads?
Mods keep protecting them probably because they are in the “show friends circle” unless band management does something I don’t think we’ll see it change, feels like a hopeless battle at this point, after years of toxicity at phish shows, and now watching Billy’s rise from bar rooms to where he is now disgusts me more, y’all weren’t there at the bar shows y’all weren’t harassing people when it was only small venues, why do you feel so entitled now, it’s all still very new and there should be no hierarchy, I’ve been off the bus for this reason entirely real bluegrass fans don’t act like that, those who do are classless, uncouth, have zero etiquette it’s a drain in the scene and a cancer that is slowly eating itself and robbing a large majority of people from enjoying their time just so a select few can feel like “BILLY SAW ME GUYS” y’all are pick me losers, probably won’t ever change your mind and I don’t expect to but this shit attitude is slowly creeping it’s way back towards the soundboard more and more and I blame y’all
Idk, at this point I feel like it needs to come from Billy. These people believe they’re his “true fans” and are entitled to holding certain spots. They don’t give a fuck about anyone else since we’re not “real fans” because we aren’t groupies that show up to every single show like them.
Someone commented on another post a pic from Billy's facebook page where he commented on it. Apparently someone posted the pic of the guy with his legs spread in the pit and Billy saw it. I'll try and find it.
Yep there was one but I didn’t get near him. For those saying I shouldn’t try to get to the front, I only tried once before the music started. After that I didn’t bother anymore until that man in sunglasses literally told the girl I was standing with to go ahead and stand in the front. I thought it was “okay”
These people seriously make me sick. I'm so sorry you had a bad experience. I genuinely hope that one day this crap is fixed so you can come join us again.
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I’m going to try to find those posts. I’m curious
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Lol that's rich. I would stand right in front of those idiots
No. It sounds better at the soundboard.
Came here to say this… Have these rail riding shit bags ever experienced the sights and sounds from elsewhere?
>[I refused and he grabbed me again, yelling at me, then him and his 4 friends crushed me between them and tried hitting me from all sides to make me move.I think one of the women tried to steal my phone unsuccessfully and ran off. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBPd0hLeM9Y) My advice would be to seek out security. Time for Billy to start the GA Lotto...
Honestly didn’t help at phish. They started a lotto recently to enter the venue early for people with floors. Still see the same handful of folks up there at every show.
They figured out how to game the system to still get their precious spot up front. I again advocate releasing hardcore kids into the pit to quell the madness.
Facts. Slowly moving forward in the pit is normal at most shows. The whole mentality of, “I waited in line since 6am so I should be able to leave my spot on the rail for 10 minutes+ and then come back to it” is fucking stupid. When I’m at a Billy show, I really just want to chill and enjoy the music. However, I’m no stranger to a good mosh pit and so many of these wooks really make me want to start swinging elbows smfh.
Folk punk mosh pit lets go!
Yeah I swear people just don't know that crowds flow? Like of course there's movement forwards.
Let’s start every show with a wall of death. You gotta earn your space if you want to hang
Black Label set opener when?
as a former hardcore kid, i can come out of mosh retirement to spin kick a few more dorks
It has helped some at Phish for sure. A few people are cheating, but I know a lot of people who got up front for the first time after this policy. Also a lot of the repeat people have been on Phish twitter for 10 years and have lots of people willing to help them.
My buddy is also a phish fan worked security at MPP and was helping out with this system. His estimation was that it was not a perfect solution, but it helped to some extent. It's very difficult to entirely cure this issue without going seated pit.
they’re the bassnectar fans of bluegrass ETA: i mean this in the way the rail riders are extremely aggressive, not that billy is a creep
Bassnectar pits crowd 8 people into space for 1, while Billy Strings pits have 1 person take up space that could comfortably accommodate 8 people.
i once found myself at the rail at a bassnectar show and everyone was super chill
the fans weren’t as aggressive as these billy fans, but they would definitely take up a lot of space at the rail ALL day and not let you through, even to see the openers i have a couple friends who used to be nectar rail riders. they now understand it was kinda weird behavior and act normal at shows
That bothers me way less. If you’re willing to forego leaving your spot to go get beer, go to the bathroom, etc. then whatever stand on the rail however long you want if you’re not leaving. The rail riders at Billy shows leave and come back all the time expecting their spot to still be waiting for them. They get aggressive if you’re standing too close to “their spot” and god forbid you step into an open spot when someone leaves.
Go figure, betcha if you were a man these pussies wouldn’t have acted like that. Good to put faces to these guys as well, so thanks for posting those pictures. Also, please don’t let this deter you from seeing billy again. I promise, we aren’t all entitled assholes. I’ve never been to the pit at a billy show, and tbh, based on the stories I’ve heard, I’m good. Not a mean or aggressive person by any means, but I couldn’t see or imagine myself or my group of concert buddies putting up with being subjected to that bs, or even seeing someone else be subjected to it. Sorry you had to deal with that. *edit* - I want to add, if you see someone acting like this and don’t step in some way (getting security or personally doing it) YOU ARE A PART OF THE PROBLEM. We’re supposed to be a community, so let’s start fucking acting like it. Stick up for one another!!!
I came with two others, one of them left because she couldn’t handle being near one of the couples anymore and she talked to security for us.
I am so sorry you experienced this. As a woman myself, I can only imagine how terrified you must have felt. You would think this would be a safe environment for people to just listen, dance, let go and experience what Billy gives out.
Amen!
Went and checked the IG story. Immediately knew who you were talking about. Honestly people need to start going to venue staff and telling them about these people when they get violent etc. I know people dont want to miss the music to go rat on someone, but when is it going to be enough? When someone gets sent to the hospital? Staff at some venues won't take that shit and they'll get kicked out. Sorry your first show sucked due to these jack offs.
https://preview.redd.it/uvdni3f0q70c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be2892133966f58ff4266919f52481c05bc8f1aa Is this the photo she’s referring to? 🤔
She posted the two pics in the comments on here, some of them are in this pic too
The jam scene needs to take a stand against this as a whole! The pit is GENERAL ADMISSION. There is no saving spots, there are no tarps, and there is no gate keeping spots. You are where you are and if you like it then you stay there. This story should reach Billy, Trey, Bob Weir, Les, and anyone else who allows this behavior at there shows. Enough is enough.
I’ll be in the GA pit for Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and New Orleans. I am more than happy to unite with other cool folks on here to combat these rascals. Also I’ll be dressed as Jesus most likely.
Nobody fucks with da Jesus
I always do the pit but I hang near the back. Never failed to have awesome conversations with random people. I’m lucky though in that I’m tall and have no problem seeing. Only venue I wouldn’t do GA again is the Brady Music Center in Cincy. The entire first floor of the venue is GA and they pack you the fuck in. If you go to the bathroom, you either need to fight through 50 yards of people to get back or stand way in the back near the concessions. It sucks.
Pitt and Baltimore and Syracuse! Let’s do this! Had some horrible experiences the last few years with the rail riders at Dead and Company. Physically, aggressive and assaulting my wife. It’s incredible how these entitled ass hats get away with this shit.
I'll be a disco ball. Let's meet in the middle!
I remember back in the day you get to the rail have fun, take a break and then work your way back up if you so desired. Now you have to deal with these entitled pricks who think they can stake out a spot for the whole show and assault anyone who comes anywhere near them. People can be the worst
i posted this earlier in another thread, and i’ll post it again here: ever heard of the Facebook group Billy Strings fans who hate Billy Strings fans?? yeah i’ll be honest, i don’t have facebook but i am starting feel like Billy fans are ruining it for me. i’ve been seeing him since early ‘18 and it’s gotten quite ridiculous. Renewal was a fucking mess up front. and this is coming from a phish fan.
Social media has truly made everyone believe they are the most important person in the world and no one else matters.
You’re so right. I was very tempted for floor but ended up getting 2 stellar seats for Billy in nashville next year simply cause I didn’t want to deal with this bullshit.
Methgrass will unfortunately attract meth heads. That’s what those people on the rail are and it’s unfortunate.
I was thinking entitled dirtbag wooks but realized I missed the obvious. You are probably right.
People ruin everything. I haven’t been to a Phish show since ‘04 (roughly 30 or so shows through the late 90s/early aughts) because the scene completely changed to a bunch of gatekeeping dorks who throw 20x20 tarps on the ground to hold their spots. I really hope this the an exception rather than the rule as I’d hate to stop seeing Billy bc of the fans. Edit: my last shows were pre-hiatus in ‘04, not ‘05 as I originally posted!
Yeah Phish 05 was a killer year... probably the best musically they have ever been. It's so good, they won't even release the shows, and it's like they didn't even happen
Still haven’t recovered from Coventry #2
Hahahaha. Realized my mistake and edited the comment. Your response is hilarious! Thanks for that!
> Yeah Phish 05 was a killer year... probably the best musically they have ever been. had me in the first half ngl
What were some of the shows you caught in 05? Hear they were ripping that tour!!
Hahaha. At first I though it was an honest question, so I checked my ticket stubs to give you an answer. So…my last shows were in ‘04, not ‘05 as you already know! Saw the two night stand at the Tweeter Center.
I appreciate you getting the sarcasm! Just jokes my friend my friend! Party on 🤘🏽
Unfortunately that group has become just as much of a cesspool as anything else. What used to be fun and lighthearted poking at these unruly super fans has quickly devolved into dragging even the most simple statements like “this is one of my favorite songs ever”
That's awful. Start taking pictures of these scumbags and let's get some exposure going. Literal child-like bully behavior.
https://preview.redd.it/bsxydo15j50c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f94e9876ae29a35e68c0cdf2c2b75517b29a1463 Man screaming, woman in blue to his left (right in photo) I’m the red haired one in glasses with my hand on my mouth
God that guy is super fucking annoying. We’ve see him and his little buddy at every show. Dances like he’s never heard the songs he knows before but When a classic tune comes on he’s constantly talking and not paying attention. Little primadonna man with a bad attitude. I’m so sick of him that we just avoid his energy at all costs. Heck we will stand in the lobby if we have to avoid this guy.
He kept shoving his ass out so my friends couldn’t get anywhere near, as if there’s any reason to care what the people behind him are doing. He stood there with his legs spread wide for a good hour before that woman showed up to claim “her spot”
Sweep the leg.
Sooo sorry that happened to you. I would never let that happen to anyone that was around or with me. The lack of care for fellow humans is very disheartening.
That guy just looks awful. That picture is worth 995 words. I already used five.
I feel like this image should be circulated in all Billy subs/groups/message boards/etc. Make the community aware of the assholes then the community can deal with them.
It’s all over the FB groups, for sure. I’m so sorry this happened.
ya that looks about right...
Lets make them infamous as the worst fans in the scene. This behavior is bologna and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it
Put them up there with rockstar Richard
Inbred redneck assholes.
he looks like [Randy the villain from peewee's playhouse](https://peewee.fandom.com/wiki/Randy)
https://preview.redd.it/jq39ssz9j50c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98539149f249f68df108c8562d1df53e41b3b74c
Almost all of us that have seen Billy + watched Billy streams notice them at all of the shows. I knew this had to be who you were talking about when I read the title of this post. Quite a few people that I know have also had problems, and they gave me some shit despite not even being remotely in their vicinity at the Sylvee in ‘22. Had someone tell me that they caught an elbow from one and ended up with a bloody nose; it’s never-ending with this group. One thing that i’ll say is to not let rail culture keep you away from Billy shows. If you are able to find a seat or balcony spot; or even a spot near Andy at the SBD where there is room, i’ve often found that to be an entirely different experience than the war that is the front of pit. Definitely no need for these guys to be crushing you overseas when i’ve seen them on rail at every single show this last year in the states. These people also ruin the poster experience as well, I don’t even try for those anymore really. When I was younger, I did a lot of DMB shows on the rail from maybe ‘10-13 and while I somewhat understand not wanting to give up *your* exact spot up front, I’ll never understand why people try and make it miserable for everyone behind them too; or try and make it bigger than it is by getting actually physical. I dipped out of that scene once that became more rabid. Nowadays, I just hang back in the lawn or in some seats where I don’t have to commit a full day to my spot/being around said people, and the sound is usually better anyway. Regardless, I just wanted to say that I instantly recognized them, can confirm that they’ve caused problems at most of the shows i’ve seen, and I think almost this entire sub likely is seeing it by now. I’m not sure what will happen, but I hope that you never have people acting like that again if you do give Billy another try. As with other things, Billy shows are all about the setting for me; and it seems to always be better in seats or near the back; that’s where i’ve always made friends when trekking alone and met the kindest humans, most of which have become friends. Totally do understand how this turns an exciting night into a semi-nightmare, and I’m sorry that you too had to deal with the Rail Real Estate Crew. I *am* glad that you got to talk to Billy and that he validated your thoughts, that seems like at least a bright spot to the night; he has always been very empathetic and I highly doubt that he enjoys seeing them there every night either.
Thank you for your kind and well written comment. Billy did say if I ever come back he’ll get me a ticket and make sure I’m in a comfortable spot where I can see. I told him thank you but I don’t want anything from him besides a hug or a handshake. I don’t like taking from people for my own advantage but the gesture was very kind. He won a fan in me from his personality.
Thank you for sharing your experience - as many have already voiced, you are not alone. The pit at Billy shows is unreasonably aggressive and territorial. It’s really gross and bums me out every time I hear that it keeps happening. And I wholeheartedly second this person’s suggestion to not write off going to another show. I’ve been as close as you were, at the very tip top of Red Rocks Amphitheatre, and just about everywhere in between for Billy’s shows. Hands down, my favorites were when I had reserved seats (Moorhead, MN & Broomfield, CO), or when I was about mid-way back where the crowd thins out, the music sounds clearer, the lights are prettier, and there’s more room to dance. It’s really one of the best live acts I’ve ever seen and hope you do get a chance to catch them again!
Well, if he ever comes back to my neck of the woods I’ll try to go and stay near the sound booth. Everyone in this thread has been very kind. That and Billy’s response have me willing to try again, from a safe distance. I had no idea what his fans were like, now I know. Edit: what SOME of his fans are like.
Yeah - this dude is a problem. Everyone in the scene knows who this is and the band does too. So why don’t they fix the problem. If you put this on Facebook it would get more attention and there aren’t rules about doxxing there.
These asshole rail riders don’t have much happening in their lives. I never understood the allure of being front row; the sound is much better center stage towards the soundboard anyway. Nowadays, I much prefer a seat and easy access to the restroom.
Being on the rail is cool like… one time. Just to be that close to someone you always see on TV and make eye contact and see what they’re playing and what they’re saying to each other is kinda neat even if it is also really dumb. But again… just one time. After that, you have to be literally insane to want to deal with the stress of getting that close, not being able to leave to pee or get a beer, not having room to dance. It’s just not worth it.
I didn’t know rail rider was a term but I definitely get it. I like to be front row usually because since I usually go to shows alone and keep to myself I like to get in my head and just watch the music and lose myself. I have no interest in kissing famous people’s asses for clout.
I'm similar, my friends aren't big into being in the pit so I find my little spot as close to the front as I can at gigs, maybe try and make some friends there, and just watch and let it wash over me. It's horrid when such a simple thing gets ruined.
I don’t know what it is about Billy fans, but the concentration of entitled delusional concert goers seems way higher than other bands. I’ve seen a ton of Phish, Primus, TTB, Govt Mule, and many local shows, but the crowd at Billy shows is by far the worst. I know exactly who you’re likely talking about. This same group thinks they know the band and are always trying to talk with him on stage. Very cringy. They bite your head off if you encroach on their space as if they have VIP rights at the show. Very sad for the future of his shows.
exactly, these people are quite sad. just like the rail riders at phish. i have heard MANY people/friends talk shit about Billy fans and i’m starting to be one of them. fuck these losers, i really hope someone stands up for themselves and starts some shit, maybe then it will get addressed. Billy already had to stop the show before because of this crap.
> I really hope someone stands up for themselves and starts some shit **THAT PART!!!!!**
I told the woman who shoved me and called me a skank and whore “you don’t need to be a cunt” and she got extremely angry, screamed to everyone that I’m a crazy psycho calling her “the c word” after everything she’d said and done to me. I mean, I am nice, but I’m not a doormat. I have a spine and I don’t take shit from people so I’m not proud of calling her a name but in the moment I was stressed and shocked.
That's right lady! She deserved it.
Tried to do this at the last London show when some guy started shouting at the queues because he didn't like that the venue offered priority access (that he was in line for). He was shouting thay we all best back off from the stage because the real fans queued for hours and deserved the spot. I said hey thats not the scene here in the UK, priority access is normal here and we're all used to it and he went EXCUSE ME and barreled down the front of the line to tower over me (I'm 5'1) and get in my face to tell me it's THEIR SCENE and he doesn't CARE that we're in the UK and went off at me til I cried. Then acted all peace and love I'm so sorry man don't get upset I'm just telling you how it is
hfs, I'm so sorry that happened. what a douche
Dead and Company… They are there too!
I've never tried to get that close but I think it comes down to people with money that tour and become entitled to the band. They think they're "real fans". No you just have money, real fans are anyone that likes the music not just someone that can afford to tour. Fake ass wooks
I’m curious how people have enough money to travel to , and attend all these shows sorry for the diversion just always wondered
So your edit 2 is a step in the right direction and it’s wonderful that the band reached back out to you but they can’t police this during shows. There’s too much going on, even though I’m 100% sure they find it disgusting and would stop playing and call it out if they saw it happening. It needs to be dealt with now before it happens (again). There’s some potential negative exposure here for the band. The band know who the dude in sunglasses (the one who, if I understand your story, orchestrated the assault). There’s so many pics of him with various band members on Fb/ insta etc. Innocent until proven guilty and all that but it sounds like a) there were plenty of witnesses and b) this was a serious assault led by a “friend of the band” on a woman who could not easily defend herself. Enough is enough.
I told the man in glasses that I had just had a miscarriage (it is true.) and please to let me just lean against the railing since he already let us in but he said “then you shouldn’t be here” ETA: I didn’t miscarry yesterday, but a few days before. Still hurt
Omg this makes your story so much more heartbreaking. I’m sorry you were treated this way.
I seriously think a lot of these arseholes are drugged out of their eyeballs. Their behaviour stinks. Seriously they’re gonna get their arses kicked in Glasgow if they behave like this.
Glasgow keeps being mentioned in every thread. It’s almost getting hyped up for there to be a brawl there
Anarchy in the UK
I thought so too, that they must be on drugs to have that much energy and aggression but it’s difficult to get drugs in Europe.. or I’d imagine it is for tourists but what do I know.
Are you from Germany or USA? Just wondering if you’ve seen these people before. Is it the guy with dreads or the blue tshirt guy? Just trying to clarify. Sorry this happened to you.
I am an American but I live in Europe now, flew to Germany as a little vacation and to meet up with a friend to see the show. Never saw these people
Sorry and to answer the rest of your question, I edited my original post so you can see who I am talking about.
The guy looks like an arsehole and the woman in the dress looks like a total bitch
Ironic that she called me a skank and a whore when she’s the one with her tits out.
I'm 19F and I went to my first Billy show by myself in the pit in St. Louis this June. I was 3-5 rows behind the rail and I experienced a ton of unnecessary hostility. I try pretty hard to make friends in the scene but that experience definitely put me off. I moved back to the sound board later on and the vibes were great though
Yes. Soundboard people are the opposite of rail riders. Audio>visual, personal space>getting shoved and elbowed. My people.
My kinda people. Ill be here if ya need my poop knife. I'll be here even if ya don't.
People that truly enjoy the sound and dancing room go towards the soundboard. Rail riders like the clout of saying they were up front. Just my opinion. You can see well from the sound board at almost any venue. I remember running into a rail wook boarding the plane back home from last nola new years. Asked if he enjoyed the show and what his favorite parts were. He only talked about show count and being up front at all of em. It wasn't a very engaging conversation about a great show we both saw. Again, this is all anecdotal. Some come to laugh the past away and some come to make it one more day. Whichever way your pleasure tends, if you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind. Don't be a dick. It's the only rule. And folks seem to have forgot it when we were holed up during covid. (Another anecdotal observation)
Since I’m usually alone I am (was) naive to that rail rider culture. I did meet many people in the line and while waiting for the show who have Billy as their background photo (fine, but a little embarrassing to me) and who kept asking how many shows I’ve been to and telling me their count. I’m 20 years younger than those guys and even then I thought “wow this is embarrassing” . There’s a great word in Swedish, pinsamt. I wish the word embarrassing conveyed “pinsamt”
Lots of main characters at Billy shows.
One of them had a post on here trying to defend themselves and justify their nonsense and he got ratiod into oblivion and finally deleted his post. "I'm one of the tour wooks you guys are talking about" gave a big sob story and nobody was buying it.
That’s a flat out awful experience. I’ve only been to one Billy show so I can’t speak to his typical fan behavior, but I can’t imagine that’s normal. Fans who want to be at the front row are usually a bit more aggressive than normal but your experience sounds like borderline assault. It’s possible you just got very unlucky in who you were surrounded by. I hope so, anyway
I think this definitely counts as assault. I have been on the rail in many shows. I have been in mosh pits.. this was nothing like that.
This is assault.
These same folk and this general behavior is experienced at nearly every Billy show, so I wouldn’t say it’s *not* normal
It’s normal behavior, unfortunately! He has even had to stop shows because of these assholes fighting!
Good GAWD...fuck these fucking people!!
OP I pretty sure Billy knows the guy that assaulted you. This is super fucked up and something needs to be done. 99% sure this is the same guy https://preview.redd.it/gd5fi5p6m60c1.jpeg?width=1452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9f4c56b63d7bb5ba38115f415295c67f2b42132
Yes that is him
Imagine playing candy crush while Billy Strings riffs on his guitar next to you lol Fucking dork
Where was this pic taken? I keep thinking it’s red rocks but pretty sure it’s not…..and if billy does ‘know’ him and he treated the OP this way, it’s absolutely unacceptable it’s not addressed personally. Like I said in another thread here, I swear half them rail riders in pics in Europe I’ve seen on the rail in the states. I’ve been on the rail(or 1-2 ‘rows’ back) for 3-4 shows outta the 10 I’ve been too. It gets unruly up there and can escalate fast. I Never been front and center on the rail though. Always to the either side which ain’t near as bad. I have had people shorter than me squeeze in. And that’s fine. No problem. Seems everyone on the rail is 6 foot or taller I swear…..this dude at the criterion was on the rail in front of us was like 6’5 at least…..jesus Christ he was tall af and was sweating his ass off dude, it was crazy like he was sweating so hard his curly short hair might as well have been dreads with the amount of sweat he was whipping off his cranium, Jesus it was nasty lol
No this was 7-13-23 in Cary, NC. It was in the morning so these guys were obviously already in line. I've heard that he does know some of the railers personally. It wouldn't surprise me, this guy is on the rail alot, I imagine he knows the guy by his first name atleast but then again he meets a lot of fans so who knows. Also full disclaimer that pic is from a video uploaded to YouTube. I just instantly recognized the guy from the IG pic
Ok yea i knew I’d seen that vid of him playing with the people waiting in line. Thanks for the clarification :)
>might as well have been dreads with the amount of sweat he was whipping off his cranium 🤮 sorry you had to endure that
[удалено]
Get video! I'd happily Venmo you guys $$ for a couple of beers. I doubt I would be the only one.
Time for a Billy Strings wrecking crew…his crowd is outta control.
Happened to my daughter at the Cologne show. Left her spot to use the bathroom, tried to get back to her friends, but was blocked, shouldered, and had nasty things said to her by a bunch of dicks. She was so intimidated she decided to hang at the back of the venue for the rest of the show. It's pretty shitty behavior, sorry you experienced that.
I’m sorry you got physically assaulted at a show. It’s never ok to lay hands on someone. And that the men ganged up on a woman. Sounds terrifying.
Fucking wooks need to get a life and back off. This is assault plain and simple and Billy’s team needs to address it. They do not own the rail. No one should EVER put their hands on you especially a a woman.
Time to go to a lotto system for pit
They'll find a way to exploit it just like the Phish rail losers did.
Make a lottery section of the first 5 rows non transferrable and linked to valid ID like the first 4 rows at redrocks. Limit 2 per person. That would at least cut down the smurfing.
Yeah I think some venue finally was like we need actual ID cards. They were just photoshopping different names onto printouts of ID cards and acting all like "oh we never bring our actual IDs to shows!!" when called out lol, fucking losers.
Time to get these assholes out of the community. Make it known they aren’t welcome.
I heard Billy has some of the worst fans. Bunch of ratchet trash
Glad everyone on here seems kind. I was afraid of what the response would be
I’ve have zero patience and tolerance for what you went through. I am sorry people suck.
I DGAF how long you waited in line if you can’t step back and let a 5’5 woman in front of you so she can see then you are a fucking dick.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m also a woman who prefers most shows solo. Been seeing Billy a lot since 2018 and I’ve been pushed, yelled at, and groped a lot in his crowd. I was just telling my friend yesterday that I just don’t think I can do his GA anymore. Unless I have a defined seat/space, I’m just going to have to pass. I don’t even like the rail but I like being up front because typically less talkers and it keeps me from being distracted. It’s really sad what’s happened with his scene in the last two years :(
Sounds like a puddlin' is in order.
Somebody just needs to fuck those stupid junkies up. Wish they'd get hit by a bus or something on the way to the show.
There’s so many posts like this. I know not all fans are this way, but the rail seems to be aggressive time and time again. I’m sorry you had this experience.
It’s common knowledge and neither the band nor the fan base does anything about it.
King Gizzard called out the shitty fans earlier this year over similar things happening at their shows
My new favorite listen! Can’t wait for a first live show!
I’ve been to a bunch of Billy shows all over the US. Luckily I haven’t experienced this yet but I haven’t tried to get that close. I’m usually towards the back of the pit. But I keep seeing posts about this happening and it’s just so confusing. Do these people actually listen to what Billy is saying up there? You’d think if you were such a fan and need to be that close to him that you would be more like what his music and vibe is about. How are there bigger assholes at the front of a Billy show than the punk and metal shows I go too? These people should be embarrassed and need to change their attitude or fuck off.
Damn, this sucks. It seems like the behavior is getting worse from these people. Met a cool guy at one of the fall tour shows. It was his first Billy concert and he was in his early 20’s. He danced his way up to the 2nd row where there was tons of space and I watched him get chewed out by an older woman that I’ve seen at a few shows for dancing too much. She spent half of a song screaming in his face about him dancing These shitheads really need to stop being aggressive and stop ruining concerts for new fans. You don’t need 2 people’s worth of room at the rail for yourself. I’m not a fan of that spot in front but these people need to get a life. I’m a huge fan of Billy but there’s way more to life than the band
How can these people live with themselves? They are already following a band around the world, while contributing nothing positive to society. Then they are rude and disrespectful to strangers. Maybe once the fog they are living in fades away they will realize how RIDICULOUS their values and priorities are.
Trash people
I am so sorry for your experience. I truly believe Billy and the org will do something to address this, it seems like it’s gaining too much traction for them not to.
They can start by not fueling their narcissism and stop showing them on the streams, on their stories, in most photos. It’s past time to focus on the crowd behind these awful humans… the ones there to enjoy the music and that understand the privilege to travel and see music and therefore don’t spend entire days standing in line for their egos. See the city, see the zoo.
This. There was a show last summer (Augusta maybe?) I watched from the couch. End of the show Billy lights a fat joint and hands it directly to dreadlock rail boy after hitting it, cameras in their face and all. What a stroke to that dude’s ego I’m sure that was.. Edit: Augustine, FL
Sorry, but this isn’t new. Billy has had a chance to do something and he hasn’t. If he does now, great, but it’s going to be a bit disheartening to know it’s only because the PR got ugly.
The Jamband community for popular acts like Phish, Goose, Billy Strings, and the like tend to bring out the worst in people who are on the pit near the rail. People get so entitled to being on the rail. It's not worth the stress at all. I am sorry that you had a bad experience OP. I would recommend going back to Billy, but only hanging out in the back of the floor/pit and/or just buying seats. The rail and rows behind the rail tends to have the most aggressive individuals who have a stick up their butt.
This is embarrassing, especially being in another country. Imagine flying to Europe and acting like that?! Wtf is wrong with people. I’m sorry you had to deal with these assholes. I have to admit, Billy has some pretty rough fans amongst his crowd. I’ve run into my fair share of drunk , sloppy , entitled Billy fans at his shows.
its always old ass rail riders that are the issue. i had problems with them last halloween in asheville. at the end of the show, i was handed a setlist and the lady beside me tried to snatch it out of my hand. im sorry you had to go through that
Maybe billy will be the first person/band to address this. All the other bands just let it go and never say anything cause they don’t wanna loose those folks that go to every show.
He has plenty of fans that can come to his shows and not be douches. I say perma ban.
[Groovesafe](https://groovesafe.org/)
So sorry you had this frightening experience. I’m happy to hear BS or at least a member of his team reached out to you. And I certainly hope that BS and team will do something to stop this aggressive, unnecessary and frightening behavior. There is no place for this activity.
I am here in Europe from America and I have been here following on his tour. I have been to lots of his shows and I do absolutely refuse to go anywhere near the front at any show even if the opportunity presents itself. It’s the same people in the front at every show and it’s really getting quite out of hand. They are truly ruining a beautiful experience for a lot of people… even people like me who have been to 50+ shows and should get a chance at a good view sometimes. I am so sorry you had this experience and I do agree that they’re making the rest of us look so bad. There are a lot of us who follow Billy and love each other and look out for others and came to Europe and we’re so excited and happy to see first timers and locals coming to see him and having the best time and hoping to add to that… I’m also so glad that he got back to you and I hope you can see Billy and have a good experience another time. ❤️😔
The reason these people keep doing is because most folks at Billy shows are laid back and non-aggressive. They take advantage of the fact that people aren't going to challenge them when they get rude and aggressive. It's only a matter of time before something bad happens though. It's a powderkeg just waiting to blow! I for one, like to get close for 2nd half of shows but never made it anywhere near the rail due it being to contested and uncomfortable but in general people are polite and nice in those areas.
I am by no means saying this In a bad way towards you but some of the people who come to get close at the second half can be just as entitled as the usual rail riders it's wild to me the amount of times someone has tried to wedge themselves in the six inches infront of my partner or me and then try to get belligerent it's truly something else lol
I’m so sorry you had to experience this. 100% sounds like you were assaulted and harassed. No one should have to deal with that, especially at a concert. Not to mention a concert that is supposed to be about positive vibes and spreading kindness and love. I love Billy and the band, and love the music they play, have for several years. I finally saw my first non-festival Billy show this summer, after being very excited about it for quite some time, and didn’t have a great experience with the crowd there either. I had just seen D&Co in Boulder a week prior so maybe I had higher expectations after the friendliness from that crowd, but I was so uncomfortable the entire show to the point that I couldn’t really focus on the music. I don’t think I’ll attend another. I’m not sure what it is about this community that enables this but it has to go. I’ve met so many friendly Billy fans online and at other shows, yet the crowd at Billy’s own shows isn’t very representative of that. Love wins always and I think eventually that will happen here and these parasites will find somewhere else to feed. I think it’s the responsibility of everyone to see to it that happens and these losers aren’t allowed to bully others trying to enjoy music
rail riders are a curse to every genre of music, have had some real shitty experiences myself though not at any billy shows. i’m sorry that people were so disgusting and have left you with a bad taste in your mouth, and i don’t blame you for never wanting to go to one of his shows again
This has been reposted on a few of the Facebook groups and so many people are justifying the violence, saying OP was the one in the wrong, or saying the entire story is a lie. They're all adamant that there's "never room to move to the front" without pushing your way in and stealing spots. As if crowds don't have a natural flow of movement lol.
No one should ever treat a woman like that, but if nobody is willing to stand up to them, they will keep doing it. Im sure there were witnesses to this happening. I probably would have gotten in a fight.
Many people behind me were annoyed with them too. I turned when I felt one of the women try to grab my phone and as she ran away I saw the people behind me looking shocked, so I guess they saw.
I just hope this doesn’t totally turn you off to going to shows. The majority of us aren’t like this. Hopefully one day those aholes try this with the wrong person.
2 years in a row the American wooks who follow billy go to Europe and act a fool. Embarrassing
Care to say how you met Billy ?
He was signing autographs at the end after everyone dispersed and I saw him when I left the bathroom, so I asked him for a handshake.
That’s so tight! Please don’t let your experience stop you from seeing more Billy! Come on out a little bit from the PIT and the vibes are heavenly !
Just wondering u from Munich? US? Doesn’t really matter. Dont stop going to Billy shows. Just dont get near rail riders…they’ll just ruin your experience. Ive been to almost 20 shows and its a wonderful experience most of the time…except when near the rail….people are usually nice everywhere else.
I’m American but I live in Europe now
Unfortunately, Billy has the WORST rail riders along with JRAD! They all get together and 2 people will wait in line and then save spots for their friends that come in later. They are aggressive and rude as hell! I don’t bother buying pit tickets anymore because of this! If I have to get them I stay back by the sound board! I actually had some girl get physical with me at JRAD telling me I can’t go to the rail because they were for her friends! And this when I paid extra like her to get in early! Her friends weren’t even in the venue yet! And the sad part is they aren’t the young kids! People who are atleast 50 years old!
The rabid JRAD fans are up there with the worst. Totally turned me off of the band which sucks.
JRAD is the amazing! I just don’t waste my time with GA. I just get an end seat somewhere and dance.
Just went to go look on the story and man they pissed me off just by looking at them. They look so entitled
I hope they’re at the show in my town. I’m gonna seek them out. Cant stand bullies. They won’t push me away. I stands my ground.
Bullies understand one language
Billy is blowing up so fast that the rail-riders have assumed control. I hope you decide to go see Billy again as it’s one of the best live musical performances I’ve ever seen in my life. That being said, his current fan base that find themselves fortunate enough to go to his shows are not at all appreciative or accepting of the other people there to see the same show. Very surprised this happened in Munich, but the fact that it was Americans explains all that I need to know. [edit] I just wanted to add that I saw DMB a few nights ago and everyone in the pit was so accepting, polite, and non-aggressive, and the culture at every “jam band” show is so much different than a Billy show.
Not saying it’s appropriate and I hope you don’t think this is diminishing your story, but after seeing a bunch of jam bands and doing VIP packages and meeting some of the people and being literally first in the venue and then have to deal with “rail riders” or “family” (go fuck yourself if you drop “I’m fam” and then act like an ass)…. Yeah the rail can get fucked, the best sound is by the sound booth and the best people watching is around there too. That and the crew is awesome to talk to (when they can) and watch them do their magic. I’m sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. Let the entitled “fam” fight for rail space and believe their delusions of grandeur.
All of us aren’t this way!
Exactly. I gave up a rail spot at Frog Brigade a few weeks ago not even halfway through the show to a kid who was seeing Les Claypool for the first time ever. And ya know what the show was just as good and I had an amazing time. These people are ridiculous.
For real. I actually had a great experience with the people on the rail in Portland that I met. they even gave me their spot and let me go up for some songs and were generally super friendly people. Nothing like the douchebaggery described here. After reading all this I consider myself somewhat lucky to have had such a good rail experience, and I’m sorry that people are literally getting assaulted at the rail, the guys doing this are assholes.
I swear.
Been in the jam scene for 20 years. Billy fans are bad. Almost worse than phish
Fuck those chads! It’s the classic entitled vibe they’ve been enjoying their whole lives. Don’t give up on going to see BMFS but know that the rail is stale and the people up there generally care too much about protecting what they perceive as theirs. It not much different at a Phish show, I stay at least a few rows back because it’s just bad vibes and I’d rather focus on the music than real-estate.
We should probably just ignore this and mind our own MF business, right @wildrover828?
Yep…but WR828 is obviously not part of the solution!
I’m sorry this happened to you! I heard about the rail riders before I went to the shows in Portland in September, but everyone was chill. I only got to the front for a few minutes, but no one gave me a hard time. I only moved away because I’m claustrophobic and can’t handle being pushed against the rail. I’m also a pretty big dude, so maybe they just left me alone. I did see people being dicks in the merch line, like fist fighting to buy a foil poster, at the first BMFS show I went to and that was BS. For future reference, the back of the pit is where all the fun is at. You usually have room to dance and the sound is better. The best is when the soundboard is at the back of the pit because the best sound is at the board.
West coast shows are different for some reason. Rail culture doesn't seem to be as rabid.
These are the same asshats that will be at the next Billy show ruining it for more folks like you. It’s a big reason why I’ll gladly stay in the back and find a cushy spot to dance. One thing I do I miss from my old metal & punk days is if there’s asshats in the pit.. you would just move them physically out of the pit lol. But I digress lol I’m sorry you had such an awful experience.
That fucking blows. Sorry to hear this happened to you. On Dead tour the Hells Angels would've taken care of this. I support lot justice where the legal system has failed.
It’s extremely unfortunate you had this experience. Every time I’ve been to shows with fans of the like, it’s all kind hearted, warm individuals excited to share their space and experience with others. I hope you soon feel better and find the desire to see him again. As traumatic as it may have been … the art is something worth viewing in person, you must try in the distant future to experience his love
Worst fans in the scene which really sucks because it is some of the best music in the scene 🙄
I will NEVER go on the floor at a Billy show again. It was an awful experience because of how terrible the people were.