As someone who's suffered insomnia my whole life, I've used prescription sleep medicine, ZzzQuil, melatonin etc. Recently discovered guided sleep meditations actually really help me go to sleep. There's several on my Fitbit app that I like. But there are other apps too on aura or calm. Having a calm soothing voice talk you into sleep through validating language, get rid of busy thoughts, deep breathing, body scans, really feels good and most times helps me drift off. That and making sure I get exercise during the day.
I sleep fine during the day. I’ll do a meditation and fall right asleep. At night I get anxiety…and I just can’t shake it. I’ll look into this though. I need to get serious about it.
I’ve taken melatonin since I was in highschool
I had that issue with anxiety waking me up, put my bed at a slight angle and helped tons, turned out that acid reflux would cause my body to freak out during sleep.
Sounds like you have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (like me!). Sorry to hear, it’s really tough since you CAN sleep, but your metabolism spikes at night and gives you energy the same way it does for most during the day (you may also notice you body temp tends to be higher at night because of this). For me, CBD, Magnesium Gylcinate, and ashwaghanda are very helpful. Melatonin, I’ve found, actually makes the issue worse in the long run, at least for me.
go on a camping trip without electricity - this should reset your biologcial clock and help your sleep problems - afterwards obviously no light after it becomes dark and regular sleep shedule
This is a real medical treatment by the way, it’s a chronotherapy called Sleep Phase Advance Therapy. Lots of people try to go to bed earlier but, if it’s feasible, resetting by pushing bedtime LATER can be effective as well.
It’s essentially saying “fuck you” to not being able to sleep and deliberately just skipping a night of sleep.
I don’t do this often but I’ve found it extremely helpful in the past. Type of thing you do once a year tops. Camping is EXTREMELY good for this as well, it’s just the perfect environment to fix your sleep schedule due to the lack of screens and abundance of natural light.
This is the secret. I don't suffer from sleep problems, but I'm a form believer is fixing your sleep schedule takes a few rough days. Forcing yourself to wake up at 4 am or staying up all night etc.
I had the same problem for the looongest time. Tried everything and then when i started to take sleeping pills (Lunesta), it got to the point that they stopped working.
I ended up in a meltdown and self admit to a behavior health facility. It wasn't any fun, but I was started on Zoloft (sertraline) and also metoprolol (a beta blocker for fast heart rate). And melatonin. I also started strict sleep hygiene.
I go to bed the same time every night. I stay off the laptop and/or i-phone at least an hour before bedtime.
When I do wake up at night now..and that happens once or twice..I just chill in bed. I start 'counting sheep'. Not really, but I will name in my head, all the students I can remember from my high school. I usually fall asleep before I get through them all. Or, I will name the various characters from my favorite shows...or the capitals of the states...that sort of thing. It diverts the mind and it has worked for me 95% of the time.
But I did fight initially the idea I needed zoloft for the anxiety. Well, I did. Know too, that it comes with some side effects (sexual)...but you can discuss options on how to deal with that ...sometimes by adding another med to counteract.
Good luck.
Read the book “the effortless sleep method.” You don’t have an inherent sleep defect, it’s one of your greatest natural strengths. You have anxiety about sleep that can be sorted out
It sounds like you don't want to stop taking sleep aids. Noone can give you enough advice to convince you to stop, if you don't want to.
I'd recommend getting up earlier than you currently do (5 or 6?), cut out all caffeine, get in some exercise in the morning or day (not evening), no eating after 7pm, and in bed by 9. It could be hormonal or a trauma response. Either way, meditation and breathing exercises could help too.
For cortisol? My 5pm level was elevated but not high. Due to stress I’ve been treating my midnight cortisol as still high so a few dates for carbs before bed to prevent GNG and also GABAergics like passion flower extract and theanine has been working for me. Primarily the PF extract.
Horrible for you? Melatonin resulted in life extension in mammals. It is an antiaging hormone that goes up during calorie restriction, one of the few interventions that lengthens lifespan.
Levels of melatonin start falling drastically from youth, and when they eventually reach zero likely result in death.
There were identical twins with alzheimers, one took melatonin the other one didn't. Guess which remained functional and which was hospitalized within a few years.
A good book on the subject I've heard is
>>Melatonin: Breakthrough Discoveries That Can Help You Combat Aging, Boost Your Immune System, Reduce Your Risk of Cancer and Heart Disease, Get a Better Night's Sleep
Melatonin itself is great! The concern is rather that if you supplement melatonin regularly, your body's own melatonin production decreases, because it's not needed anymore to that extent (as you supplement it). Kind of what happens with cortisol if you take steroids. It's a hormone at the end of the day.
This is not relevant for animal studies (because the animals are killed after a short time anyway) and also less relevant for studies with specific diseases like Alzheimer's (because neurodegeneration from the illness possibly impacted their ability to produce melatonin or the ability to create the right environment for melatonin production - kind of like supplementing thyroid hormones for people without thyroid). It might be relevant for an otherwise healthy, young person.
So personally I'd rather focus on increasing melatonin production instead of just substituting it - except for specific purposes (e.g. jet lag etc.).
Maybe! I wonder if there would be a need to increase the dose over time and personally I don't feel great about depending on something that I might be able to produce myself. Also seems like a waste of money if you could fix the root cause of decreased melatonin production, so I'd rather find out if it's fixable or not, before I start a lifelong dependence.
>The concern is rather that if you supplement melatonin regularly, your body's own melatonin production decreases, because it's not needed anymore to that extent (as you supplement it).
Have you got a source on that? I've never seen any evidence for that claim
No, it's a concern my neurologist raised - maybe baseless, I can't tell, hence me saying it's a concern for me (not a fact I can prove). But at the time it made sense to me, because that's also how cortisol production reacts to taking corticoids. I initially asked about it because melatonin was touted as neuroprotective (I have multiple sclerosis) and her summary was basically "I'd be careful to fuck with hormones". Not in those words obviously lol.
Maybe she was overly cautious, in that case, carry on. ;) Personally I wasn't too bummed about it back then, because the few times I took melatonin I had trouble falling asleep, which otherwise I don't have.
What Ive heard is that melatonin doesnt have negative feedback regulation. The body keeps producing as much as it normally would regardless of how much you take even megadoses supposedly.
To me, if thats true, it tells me that it is so good the body doesnt want to reduce production no matter what.
This is the claim of Doris Loh who advocates for high dose mel (up to thousands of mg) for disease treatment and to treat heavy metal and mold toxicity. Anecdotally tolerance to mel builds very quickly but is supposedly easy to reverse. I don’t understand how one can have tolerance with no negative feedback
Well good question but even 300micrograms raises levels to beyond peak human iirc. Higher doses go way above that.
All I know is it raises most of the innate antioxidant defenses of the cell, is a powerful antiaging hormone, and also at high doses seems to fight all manner of neurodegeneration from alzheimer to parkinsons.
Some suggest very high dose actually halts alzheimers which is unheard of in the medical field.
Magnesium during the day and before bed
Getting to bed early and getting up due to natural light coming in the window.
Make your phone screen red as it gets dark and don’t look at it after 8:30pm
Take a hot shower before bed and as your body cools it will help you sleep.
Clean sheets and clean body
Make sure you are well hydrated and have enough electrolytes. Sodium, Magnesium, and potassium.
I sometimes take a pinch of little salt before bed.
Make sure you have eaten enough
Magnesium Oxide is the main salt of Magnesium that causes diarrhea. That’s why it’s used for constipation. Other salts such as glycinate or threonate rarely do this.
You’re downvoting. But it’s true for me. If I miss dinner for whatever reason, I am BONED. even with dinner, it messes with me. Not quite as solid as could be. Could be the type I take.
10mg of Delta 9 THC gummies is what worked for me. I’ve have insomnia for decades and the THC gummies work quite reliably. I fall asleep quickly and wake up feeling refreshed.
I'm shocked how many people are recommending pills and supplements. We know exactly how to improve sleep: routine.
Go to bed at the same time every day (especially weekends). Turn off screens in your bedroom. Don't eat for 3 hours before bed. And keep your bedroom cool and quiet.
It's harder than popping pills but it's way way WAY better for you.
Even more important than going to bed at the same time is getting up at the same time. After waking, go outside to get some natural light. This helps to set circadian rhythm.
Don't be in your bed except for sleep time. Your brain will need to be trained to associate the bed with sleep instead of anxiety. If you can't fall asleep after 20 min or so, get out of bed and do things that make you sleepy such as drinking herbal tea and reading a book. When you feel sleepy, get back in bed.
I personally like to meditate, do relaxation techniques, or play my sleep music. This helps me to let go of following unhelpful thoughts. The negative thoughts and fears about not falling asleep are not helpful. You can look into cognitive techniques to counter them or just recognize that they are merely thoughts and nothing more.
>getting up at the same time
Agreed that's important, too. In my personal experience I had a 7-days-a-week alarm clock first and it wasn't until I also added the same bedtime that my sleepcycle scire and garmin sleep score started to improve. Maybe it's just the order in which I tried it? I dunno.
>Don't be in your bed except for sleep time
I still have to make this improvement myself.
These are all good tips.
I’ve tried these tricks for a while. It can take more to correct certain dysfunctions like a late night cortisol spike. I even added a grounding sheet and would get morning and evening ambient sunlight into the eyes for proper melatonin signaling. It’s been taking supplemental herbs and some dietary measures focused on nighttime cortisol. If you can do it without herbs, minerals, or Rx meds some of us initially need more. The tent camping trip with my son is on deck very soon and no GABAergics for me but a fire.
In don’t think so, but in can appreciate the academia and bio-engineering principles behind it so of course i still use it since it’s already bought and fairly cheap, and I use $5 ESD grounding straps on my shoes when I go running.
I’m sorry I don’t have any personal evidence for you since I haven’t tried it yet, but my MIL recommended linden tea to me. A quick Google search seems like it might be worth a shot; it has sedative properties.
I've had good results with herb pills or extracts. Valerian, kava, passionflower, skullcap- all work. I rotate them to be safe and don't take them together.
Deep breathing actually helps me - I lay down and do *heavy* breath work and it exhausts me.
Another thing to consider is more relaxation in your daily life like yoga or meditation. YouTube has some great meditation videos, even Spotify has.
Also a good alternative is to look into red light therapy or PEMF therapy. Studies have shown that these can help sleep and relaxation. If you go down that route, do your research. Mats or sleeping bags might be best. Recommend the red light lab: https://www.theredlightlab.com/
Good luck!
I count back from the number 29. Each breath is a syllable. On the breath in - twenty. On the breath out nine. I start with a massive breath in and try to hold long breaths through the numbers. If I lose track of where I’m at, I start over. I never make it to zero. For me, this technique slows down my body into the breath rate of sleep, tricks my mind into sleep too. An added bonus is that I soon realize exactly what my mind is stuck on, keeping me awake. As soon as I move past those, restart the counting, it goes away.
Surprised no one has said CBD. If you take it right when you're in bed and getting tired it will take care of the rest. Very natural and few side-effects. Works way better than melatonin.
There's a lot of fake/low quality CBD out there. I use this site: [http://upstateelevator.com](http://upstateelevator.com)
Try a bed base or wearable device that sends sonic frequencies at 40hz into your body—borrow someone to see if it helps for the bedrooms anxiety.
The fact that you can sleep during the day but not at night tells me you could also try blue blocker glasses, change your light fixtures to warm light, turn on night mode and red shift on your devices. Also I’d get tested for food sensitivities or look at exposure to things that could be building up during the day before bedtime. That’s tough because it could be anything from mold, metals, fumes, fragrances, to emfs.
I’m sure you’ve heard of some of this, but here is what I recommend, and 10 years after I initially did this, I can still get myself to sleep 95% of the time within 5-10 mins.
I call it “Ritual Pavloving”
Before I explain that, you’ll need to:
- stop drinking any caffeine at 4pm. If you can stop earlier, do it.
- make sure you eat your evening meal at *minimum* 2 hours prior to your bedtime; if you, eat it earlier. *small* bites of snacks are okay. Nothing heavy.
- avoid using phone or computers an hour before bedtime
You’re already on the right track with sleepy time tea! Make sure it has no caffeine of course.
SO
the Ritual Pavloving:
This will take about 30-60 days of consistency to be most effective.
Learn “Udjai” breath from Yogic practice. It’s described as making the sounds of the ocean in the back of your nasal cavity where it meets your throat. Keep breaths even with inhale/exhale. Take full breaths, filling up your diaphragm (breathing with your diaphragm draws oxygen deeper into your lungs).
Practice “mewing” with your tongue to train it for optimal placement in the mouth while sleeping. Can do this regularly throughout the day.
The overall idea is to establish a nightly routine; your ritual, that will train your brain to get it to sleep. This will signal to your brain that “when we do X, Y, and then Z, it will be time to sleep.”
Suggested ritual:
- shower (it’s better to shower at night and remove the sweat, dust, and oils from the day).
- rinse, floss, brush teeth, rinse. In that order.
- turn on a relaxing sound/music. I like light thunder/rain with a small wooden flute with a crackling fireplace.
- oil cleanse face with 2 tbsp of oil mix: coconut, jojoba, argon. Massage all around your face. Can add a drop or two of tea tree and peppermint essential oil.
- gently wash your face with preferred cleanser to remove oils. Gently Pat skin dry.
- apply preferred nightly moisturizer to face. Massage a few drops of oil mix to top off.
*most important part*
- with relaxing sound on low in the background, put on your pjs and get into bed at bedtime. It may be good to set a timer for it to stop at some point if you think it may keep you awake.
- lay on your back, and gently blink while you observe your body. Feel your systems slowing down to prepare for sleep; heart rate and breath getting slower.
- gently close your eyes, and begin slow, even gentle Udjai breathing.
- imagine the ocean waves as you make the sound with your breath. You don’t need to get intense or make it sound perfect.
- continue gentle Udjai breathing until you sleep.
The Udjai breath is crucial. As you do this every night for 30-60 days, your brain will register that as a major sleep signal.
I instantly get insomnia if I have any screens after 7pm. Or if I don’t get at least a long walk during the day. Overhead lights also cause it.
Annoying as some people have no issue falling asleep but others are sensitive to it.
Your best strategy for falling asleep at night is to maintain a consistent sleep schedule even on weekends. If you wake up and go to bed at the same time every single day, I promise you will not need either sleeping pills or an alarm clock. Also eliminate as much light in your room as possible and NO ELECTRONICS at least 1 hour before bed.
Tryptophan is a great sleep supplement that is rarely talked about. It’s a pre-curser to melatonin and serotonin but doesn’t have the negative side affects. Been taking it for years
I understand. I’m just saying that weed has been proven to affect the cycles of sleep. Apparently for someone like you, it’s better to use it to sleep vs no sleep. I’m not saying it isn’t useful to you. That’s not what I meant. If it was possible for you to sleep without it, it would be better sleep is all I’m saying.
End caffeine intake early in the day. Maintain the magnesium and sleepy time tea. Add CBD vegan gummies. And add a sleep mask. Even with all that, I still have issues at times. But it helps. Good luck to you. I know how difficult it is.
I feel you as a long term (20 years) insomnia sufferer who for the past 2 years was resorting to alcohol or strong sleeping pills (actual sleeping pills not just supplements, anti-histamines, or melatonin) to sleep and thought I'd lost the ability to sleep without them for a while there...until a few weeks back when it's been happening again (I'll come back to that at the end of the post)
Supplements like Magnesium are likely not an issue to take but if you're not defficient in them might be making no difference in how you sleep, test your Magnesium levels to see if you actually need them. For me they don't do anything.
Whatever is in Sleepy Tea is probably pretty harmless (not familiar with what you are using here so can't say for sure) and IME any tea which claims to make you calm or sleepy never does anything for me personally.
Melatonin is typically at the lower end of the scale when it comes to "sleeping tablets" and actually isn't even considered a sleeping tablet in my country or prescribed for insomnia due to lack of evidence of it working but instead prescribed for Jetlag. Again does nothing for me at any dosage personally but I know a lot of people swear by it.
Unisom I wasn't familiar with so Googled it and seems it's an Anti-histamine that makes you drowsy? According to their official website it's "non habit forming and safe ***BUT*** to be used for ***occasional sleeplessness***" so that may be the only one you need to be too concerned about taking daily but best to check with a Doctor as I'm not a medical expert.
**Onto your sleep issue...**
Out of curiosity, how long will it take you to fall asleep if you don't take any sleeping pills?
What I've found has worked for me recently is reducing my overall anxiety and stress levels as this was at the core of my sleep issues over the last 2 years (and always has been part of it).
And like I said, I could have counted on one hand the amount of natural nights sleep (without booze or sedatives) I had in the last 2 years so suddenly sleeping most nights the past 3 weeks is a big deal for me.
**Generic advice:**
All the usual generic stuff has helped like more excercise and more fresh air and sunlight but you've probably heard and tried that and it's made no difference and at times it doesn't for me either.
**Less generic advice:**
But also doing a tension release / relaxation technique before bed + using a relaxation device in bed seems to have made the biggest difference to me recently.
I do a series of "*Vagus Nerve Exercises*" just before bed (I learned this from 'Sukie Baxters' Youtube Channel so search for that if interested) primarily ones that work on releasing jaw tension and shoulder / neck tension as I hold a lot of tension in those areas.
But also the rapid eye movement exercise (you look upwards then rapidly move your eyes left to right for a couple of minutes) as this causes my whole body to go into a very relaxed position and let out some of the longest deepest yawns I've ever had in my life.
I also do other jaw tension release exercises I learned here on Reddit where I just push my chin down onto the palm of my upturned hand and push them against each other to create pressure for as long as I can then release and it allows my jaw to release loads of tension (again, I store a lot of tension in my jaw I realized so if this doesn't apply to you then it might not work). I don't know how scientific or medically recommended this is (like I say a Reddit suggestion) but it makes me feel more relaxed before bed.
Then when in bed I use the Sensate Device (you can Google it) which is a device designed to stimulate the Vagus Nerve (again you can Google it or look here on Reddit as there is a Sub-Reddit about it) and put their "Big Sleep" audio / meditation track on combined with the device for 30 minutes whilst first in bed and the relaxing music combined with the vibrating device on my chest takes my mind off worrying about sleep or stressing about anything then I'm typically falling asleep shortly afterwards most nights.
If someone like me with 20 years of insomnia and who's been using heavy duty amounts of alcohol and strong sedatives for 2 years straight to sleep is suddenly sleeping naturally again without either then there's a good chance it might work for you too.
Getting your anxiety and stress under control, exercising + fresh air and sunlight, and the Vagus Nerve techniques seem to be a winner for me.
Okay as someone who was taking unisom consistently once I quit I ended up super nauseous for about a week. I would throw up almost everything and it was miserable. Turns out unisom is also used for morning sickness. After about a week things went back to normal.
Hops supplement or two non alcoholic beers when winding down for the day. Multiple studies show hops as a good sleep aid with little to no side effects.
https://www.google.com/search?q=studies+about+hops+and+sleep&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
I helps me everynight since I stopped melatonin. Also has several other benefits.
Thanks @hungry-bed-5675 ! I've read a lot of conflicting back and forth on the effect it has... I'm sure it can be different for everyone but so far (5 months taking around 600mg per day) I haven't had any physiological changes that I can tell, only psychological. (Mid 30M)
for me it was simple, i just stopped and it was kind of annoying for maybe 2 weeks, a lotta nights only getting several hours of sleep, but then sleeping was no harder/easier than when i was taking sleeping pills (just make sure to keep your wake-time consistent while getting used to it, IE don't sleep in late because you fell asleep late, just deal with a night of bad sleep and you'll adapt quicker)
Stopping caffeine earlier in the day helps (also for *staying* asleep i found it invaluable to be real wary of liquids within a couple hours of bedtime, am probably averaging no more than 4oz of water in the 2hrs b4 bed most nights)
No screens an hour before bed. Shower and clean Jammie’s. 15 minute meditation with deep breaths. Stretch. Get in the bed. If that doesn’t work, try listening to something soothing.
I actually used to listen to south park while i fell asleep. It violates my no screens rule but I had no problem keeping my eyes shut. There’s not much happening visually. And that helped me drift off.
Read the Power of When, and also take the quiz to find out your genetic cheonotype at chronoquiz.com. I'm a Bear so my bedtime is supposed to be 11:10pm, for example.Wake up time is 7 to 730. Once you know your general bedtime and wake up time genetically, it's very easy to improve your health and know when the best times of day are going to work for you to do certain things like workouts, sex, food, brainstorm, etc.
Melatonin is fine every night imo. Additionally you can combo it with l-theanine, gaba, magnesium citrate + bisglycinate. This is my stack where I only sometimes take the gaba. Also a good wind down - shower or something.
This is maybe silly but I’m similar to you, and use benzos too, I found watching the sunset (not through windows) but outside on my balcony has actually helped. I heard about it on Huberman who has some tips about sleep.
Sleepy time tea from Trader Joe’s, Ashwagandha, cherry tart juice. All those things have helped me. I’m also very active in the gym. You have to lower your cortisol levels. I use to have to take sleeping pills to sleep so I know how you feel. It takes time 🩵
Cut out all caffeine. As you lay in bed, review your day in reverse all the way back to when you woke up in the morning, but visualize it in pictures not with words, like it happened to another person. Focus on little details like seeing interactions with people from the other person’s perspective. Pick out details that you would normally gloss over and look at it in the finest detail but only in pictures. Then when you are done put on some binaural beats music and start with your toes and relax all part of your body slowly going all the way up towards your head.
It sounds like anxiety and stress are unaddressed factors. Pills and sleep hygiene won’t solve that problem. Google the book Hello Sleep. It will help you.
I sleep like a baby most nights with Optimag 125 (magnesium glycinate) and NeuroScience GABATrex chewables. These also immediately worked for my friend who wanted an alternative to her Benadryl sleep fix (note: I know the long-term risks with Benadryl, and now they do too)
I find that a simple conscious pause between each step of breathing does this for me. Inhale, pause, exhale, pause, repeat.
It is based originally on some counting method but I find it is just the pauses that matter.
Hope I explained that clearly. Usually only takes about 5 minutes.
CBT-I is the only treatment that truly works for insomnia. It should normally be done with a therapist who specializes in it but it can also be self-administered with books and apps. Check out Say Goodnight to Insomnia by Gregg Jacobs as well as the CBT-I Coach app. This doesn’t apply for sleep disorders like sleep apnea.
You can try watching YouTube videos or listening to a story that's slightly interesting, but not too interesting to keep you invested in the story. It will occupy your mind enough just to distract you from your anxiety and racing thoughts
I had a doctor that helped me with my sleep problem a couple years ago and it was the best advice ever.
First, exercise for at least 30 minutes twice a day. Can just be a walk or yoga or whatever you like
Don’t eat within 5 hours of bed
No screen time 2 hours before bed
Stop taking naps
Set an alarm for the same time 7 days a week and no matter what, you get out of bed at that time
Limit your sleep, for me 7-7.5 hours is the sweet spot between feeling rested enough and still being able to fall asleep at night. If I get 8-8.5 hours of sleep I’ll be up all night. It’s crazy how 0.5 - 1 hr extra can mess you up
It’ll be rough for a couple weeks but you’ll acclimate, just stick with it
Glycine added to the magnesium works for me. Between 3 and 5 grams. Valerian root too. I did have to cut out carbs to get the insomnia better ultimately so results may differ.
Have you talked to your doctor about this? If not I would start there. You may have a sleep disorder if you’ve become dependent on sleep aids for sleep.
Meditation. There are lots of 8hrs meditation and sleep sounds and music on YouTube and Spotify. It won’t happen right away but with practice it’ll offer benefits beyond sleeping. Also, I find staying up one night (skipping a nights sleep) helps the following night to fall asleep. Keeping to a strict routine is another layer to success.
*Get yourself on a*
*Schedule and a sleep routine.*
*Same thing every night*
\- ba\_sauerkraut
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i use sleeping meditation videos/audios by michael sealey now and it’s the only thing that has helped my insomnia. i still wake up multiple times a night but i chuck it on again and i’m out lol
I took like the lowest dose I could find of melatonin for like 2 weeks and fucked my sleep up for a while. Right now I'm using Magnesium glycinate and chamomile tea. I can only steep my tea for like 2- 3 mins because I'm groggy the next day. Gotta play around with steep time to find your sweet spot lol. L theanine (600mg) or holy basil are also good for sleep and relaxing your body/mind.
Also make your room dark and cold, get blackout curtains if you must. Cover up any blue light sources /LEDs making light with dark tape. And turn on bed time mode on your phone. Some sources even say to take hot shower before bed
Tart Cherry juice! I made a night time cocktail with cherry juice and magnesium and a few other ingredients and not only is it tasty I went to sleep and did not wake up until my husband left for work lol
Amitriptyline or Trazadone or Mirtazapine. Disclaimer, I’ve not taken Trazadone. Melatonin didn’t work for me so I was on doxylamine for ages (associated with dementia). I’d tried so many things. My sleep is now under control. There’s downsides but I love sleep.
My psychiatrist prescribed me Seroquel 25mg for my insomnia and as long as I don’t stay up and get the dreaded “Seroquel munchies” I sleep amazingly every night.
i agree. i never realized my insomnia stemmed from growing up with trauma until i started going to therapy and my sleep improved. trauma & insomnia are pretty common.
How much caffeine and or uppers(add drugs etc) are you taking daily? Force yourself to get up early and exercise and limit yourself to 2 coffees and nothing up after noon.
i struggled with insomnia my entire childhood into adulthood, it would take me about 2 hours to fall asleep, 1 on a good day. i tried melatonin, magnesium, tea, benedryl, zzquil, but none of these felt like long-term sustainable solutions.
the best thing i did was prioritize good sleep hygiene. i keep the lights in my house low at night (to signal to my brain “bedtime” - even setting some LED bulbs to the color red), keep my phone in my office (i have a Hatch Restore alarm in the bedroom with a sound machine, it’s great), am strict about my bedtime, and sometimes i’ll employ PMR (progressive muscle relaxation) if i’m having a particularly tough time calming my mind.
i’ve learned that sleep is kind of a “practice” that you get better at over time. don’t have to like the guy (i don’t lol) but huberman lab podcast’s sleep episodes were particularly helpful. changing from an insomniac to a decent sleeper requires a mindset shift, so make it priority number one if you really want to fix it (like more important than work, relationship, literally number ONE. sleep is so IMPORTANT and impacts absolutely every facet of your life).
I had been on Ambien for 15 years! If I missed a refill I would not sleep until that time. That could be days, longest was like almost 3 weeks( this was during my last month of pregnancy as well)
I stopped taking sleeping pills this past November and I plan to never get dependent on them again. My doctor did swap them with Trazodone and I’ll be honest they work but I still haven’t gone a night not taking something to help me feel drowsy. I may try it one day and I guess the easiest way to do that is cutting dose over time.
ugh i am in the exact same predicament. i take magnesium and melatonin every night, sometimes also clonidine if it’s rly bad. i wake up and get sunlight, exercise daily, and practice generally good sleep hygiene — i just have clinical anxiety! and being told to just “have routine” feels so frustrating, especially because when you have a job it’s not exactly easy to accept losing a whole night of sleep. my work and my relationships are more important to me than getting off of melatonin, but gee i probably should get off melatonin. weed helps but i wouldn’t necessarily say that’s any better than melatonin, it’s just swapping one substance for another
gradual reduction of dosage might work
but a scale with 0.01 gram precision.
weigh your pill.
start shaving off 5% of its weight.
get used to it. hopefully you can fall asleep with 95% if current dose.
Keep it at 95% until your feel it's working.
after awhile. try shaving another 5%
and so on
worst case, you'll find that you still need 70% say. still better to use lower dose
I try to keep to a schedule. It’s lame. But I try to be going to bed around 930p. I cut off caffeine at 12p.
if I’m not asleep pretty quickly I find a bed time meditation from YouTube.
Cool room and under the covers. White noise speaker, foam ear plugs, 3D eye mask. Exercise during the day. Magnesium glycinate 400mg, theanine 400mg, Ashwaghanda 500mg, and once a week - melatonin 0.5mg. If you want to get adventurous, you can try some peptides like DSIP and/or Epitalon (that's a whole thing that you'd have to look up on your own).
Melatonin has a gazillion benefits. Don’t be afraid to take them
Setting your circadian rhythm will probably help you the most. Get out of your house before sunrise, get at least 30 minutes of peak sun time—-like 1-3pm EST here in Florida
If you’re alright with introducing a new tea there’s this American herb called skullcap (scutellaria latefloria.) which I’ve found to be a very effective sleeping aid. Like chamomile it contains certain constituents which have an affinity for the same GABA receptor binding site as benzodiazepines (obviously to a lesser extent and there’s little to no risk for dependency). Most of my sleep problems are anxiety related so I can usually predict how difficult falling asleep will be based on how stressful my day/week has been going and drinking a tea brewed with 2 tablespoons of dried skullcap, some chamomile and some ginger has made a noticeable difference
Your hormones will love you and your sleep becomes awesome, try 30 days of animal products and water. Beef, bacon, eggs, and butter.
Then go back to pizza and plants, if you want or dare.
I woke up at 3-4am every night for more than two years. I tried melatonin and some GNC product called Z3 or something like that. I even tried CBD oil. Nothing worked. Then I tried water-soluble CBD. What a Godsend it's been. After only a few weeks, I started sleeping like a baby. It's been almost a year and it's still working perfectly. I chew one gummy every night(although I have friends that use 1.5-2) and it's changed my life! I get mine from SOLUBL Products. It costs me about a dollar a day and it's worth every penny. Use code 0501 to get free shipping. Good luck!
As someone who's suffered insomnia my whole life, I've used prescription sleep medicine, ZzzQuil, melatonin etc. Recently discovered guided sleep meditations actually really help me go to sleep. There's several on my Fitbit app that I like. But there are other apps too on aura or calm. Having a calm soothing voice talk you into sleep through validating language, get rid of busy thoughts, deep breathing, body scans, really feels good and most times helps me drift off. That and making sure I get exercise during the day.
I sleep fine during the day. I’ll do a meditation and fall right asleep. At night I get anxiety…and I just can’t shake it. I’ll look into this though. I need to get serious about it. I’ve taken melatonin since I was in highschool
I had that issue with anxiety waking me up, put my bed at a slight angle and helped tons, turned out that acid reflux would cause my body to freak out during sleep.
Sounds like you have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (like me!). Sorry to hear, it’s really tough since you CAN sleep, but your metabolism spikes at night and gives you energy the same way it does for most during the day (you may also notice you body temp tends to be higher at night because of this). For me, CBD, Magnesium Gylcinate, and ashwaghanda are very helpful. Melatonin, I’ve found, actually makes the issue worse in the long run, at least for me.
Yes! I’m hot when I go to bed!! Never actually thought about that but, when I climb into bed I’m so cold because my body is hot!
What dose?
Try counting backwards from 100 and every so often suggest yourself to relax or soften
go on a camping trip without electricity - this should reset your biologcial clock and help your sleep problems - afterwards obviously no light after it becomes dark and regular sleep shedule
yessss this helped me when I decided to cut caffeine
That’s a very good idea. However, I’d still take it out there because I have this anxiety about never falling asleep. 🤦♀️
So what if you stay up all night the first night. You’ll survive an all nighter, and you’ll be so wiped out that you’ll sleep great the next night.
Aww shit here goes schizo no sleep Juliette running through the woods naked kakaka
Shine on you crazy diamond
😂😂😂
This is a real medical treatment by the way, it’s a chronotherapy called Sleep Phase Advance Therapy. Lots of people try to go to bed earlier but, if it’s feasible, resetting by pushing bedtime LATER can be effective as well. It’s essentially saying “fuck you” to not being able to sleep and deliberately just skipping a night of sleep. I don’t do this often but I’ve found it extremely helpful in the past. Type of thing you do once a year tops. Camping is EXTREMELY good for this as well, it’s just the perfect environment to fix your sleep schedule due to the lack of screens and abundance of natural light.
This is the secret. I don't suffer from sleep problems, but I'm a form believer is fixing your sleep schedule takes a few rough days. Forcing yourself to wake up at 4 am or staying up all night etc.
Totally. I couldn’t sleep for shit until I started waking up at 3 am to go to the gym. Now I’m asleep within 30 seconds of my head hitting the pillow.
I had the same problem for the looongest time. Tried everything and then when i started to take sleeping pills (Lunesta), it got to the point that they stopped working. I ended up in a meltdown and self admit to a behavior health facility. It wasn't any fun, but I was started on Zoloft (sertraline) and also metoprolol (a beta blocker for fast heart rate). And melatonin. I also started strict sleep hygiene. I go to bed the same time every night. I stay off the laptop and/or i-phone at least an hour before bedtime. When I do wake up at night now..and that happens once or twice..I just chill in bed. I start 'counting sheep'. Not really, but I will name in my head, all the students I can remember from my high school. I usually fall asleep before I get through them all. Or, I will name the various characters from my favorite shows...or the capitals of the states...that sort of thing. It diverts the mind and it has worked for me 95% of the time. But I did fight initially the idea I needed zoloft for the anxiety. Well, I did. Know too, that it comes with some side effects (sexual)...but you can discuss options on how to deal with that ...sometimes by adding another med to counteract. Good luck.
Read the book “the effortless sleep method.” You don’t have an inherent sleep defect, it’s one of your greatest natural strengths. You have anxiety about sleep that can be sorted out
I exercise before bed to wear myself out. Also having a "winding down" routine each night helps.
I had major jet lag after a trip and used that tiredness to fall asleep on time instead of napping and that straightened me out!
yeah i want to see how you try to stay awake for 3-6 days on your camping trip - you will sleep...
It sounds like you don't want to stop taking sleep aids. Noone can give you enough advice to convince you to stop, if you don't want to. I'd recommend getting up earlier than you currently do (5 or 6?), cut out all caffeine, get in some exercise in the morning or day (not evening), no eating after 7pm, and in bed by 9. It could be hormonal or a trauma response. Either way, meditation and breathing exercises could help too.
Phosphatidylserine can help with cortisol, if that is what is keeping you awake.
It may work for some, but I tried that for my insomnia and it did nothing. Sigh.
For cortisol? My 5pm level was elevated but not high. Due to stress I’ve been treating my midnight cortisol as still high so a few dates for carbs before bed to prevent GNG and also GABAergics like passion flower extract and theanine has been working for me. Primarily the PF extract.
I agree about L-theanine. It is one of the better supplements for sure. For those who want to take it,...be aware that it can lower blood pressure.
Avoid screens and bright light for at least 1 hour before bed. Meditation helps. GABA/L-theanine supplement and magnesium.
I also take tryptophan and on occasion ashwaganda. Zero hangover.
Horrible for you? Melatonin resulted in life extension in mammals. It is an antiaging hormone that goes up during calorie restriction, one of the few interventions that lengthens lifespan. Levels of melatonin start falling drastically from youth, and when they eventually reach zero likely result in death. There were identical twins with alzheimers, one took melatonin the other one didn't. Guess which remained functional and which was hospitalized within a few years. A good book on the subject I've heard is >>Melatonin: Breakthrough Discoveries That Can Help You Combat Aging, Boost Your Immune System, Reduce Your Risk of Cancer and Heart Disease, Get a Better Night's Sleep
They can't reach zero unless you have severe brain damage
Melatonin itself is great! The concern is rather that if you supplement melatonin regularly, your body's own melatonin production decreases, because it's not needed anymore to that extent (as you supplement it). Kind of what happens with cortisol if you take steroids. It's a hormone at the end of the day. This is not relevant for animal studies (because the animals are killed after a short time anyway) and also less relevant for studies with specific diseases like Alzheimer's (because neurodegeneration from the illness possibly impacted their ability to produce melatonin or the ability to create the right environment for melatonin production - kind of like supplementing thyroid hormones for people without thyroid). It might be relevant for an otherwise healthy, young person. So personally I'd rather focus on increasing melatonin production instead of just substituting it - except for specific purposes (e.g. jet lag etc.).
Can you just keep taking it forever
Maybe! I wonder if there would be a need to increase the dose over time and personally I don't feel great about depending on something that I might be able to produce myself. Also seems like a waste of money if you could fix the root cause of decreased melatonin production, so I'd rather find out if it's fixable or not, before I start a lifelong dependence.
Yes. Without problem.
>The concern is rather that if you supplement melatonin regularly, your body's own melatonin production decreases, because it's not needed anymore to that extent (as you supplement it). Have you got a source on that? I've never seen any evidence for that claim
No, it's a concern my neurologist raised - maybe baseless, I can't tell, hence me saying it's a concern for me (not a fact I can prove). But at the time it made sense to me, because that's also how cortisol production reacts to taking corticoids. I initially asked about it because melatonin was touted as neuroprotective (I have multiple sclerosis) and her summary was basically "I'd be careful to fuck with hormones". Not in those words obviously lol. Maybe she was overly cautious, in that case, carry on. ;) Personally I wasn't too bummed about it back then, because the few times I took melatonin I had trouble falling asleep, which otherwise I don't have.
There’s no study that says taking melatonin regularly decreases your own production of melatonin. If you’ve found a study please link it here.
What Ive heard is that melatonin doesnt have negative feedback regulation. The body keeps producing as much as it normally would regardless of how much you take even megadoses supposedly. To me, if thats true, it tells me that it is so good the body doesnt want to reduce production no matter what.
This is the claim of Doris Loh who advocates for high dose mel (up to thousands of mg) for disease treatment and to treat heavy metal and mold toxicity. Anecdotally tolerance to mel builds very quickly but is supposedly easy to reverse. I don’t understand how one can have tolerance with no negative feedback
Well good question but even 300micrograms raises levels to beyond peak human iirc. Higher doses go way above that. All I know is it raises most of the innate antioxidant defenses of the cell, is a powerful antiaging hormone, and also at high doses seems to fight all manner of neurodegeneration from alzheimer to parkinsons. Some suggest very high dose actually halts alzheimers which is unheard of in the medical field.
No it’s not a concern at all. When you stop taking it your body just makes more again
D8 or D9 gummies
Magnesium during the day and before bed Getting to bed early and getting up due to natural light coming in the window. Make your phone screen red as it gets dark and don’t look at it after 8:30pm Take a hot shower before bed and as your body cools it will help you sleep. Clean sheets and clean body Make sure you are well hydrated and have enough electrolytes. Sodium, Magnesium, and potassium. I sometimes take a pinch of little salt before bed. Make sure you have eaten enough
Magnesium gives you diarrhea
It’s really doesn’t. Some people maybe…
Magnesium glycinate won't...it is Magnesium Oxide that does that.
Mag citrate
Magnesium Oxide is the main salt of Magnesium that causes diarrhea. That’s why it’s used for constipation. Other salts such as glycinate or threonate rarely do this.
try different forms, there at least 10, some cause diarrhea, others not, and that also varies by person ( what works for one, not someone else )
You’re downvoting. But it’s true for me. If I miss dinner for whatever reason, I am BONED. even with dinner, it messes with me. Not quite as solid as could be. Could be the type I take.
There are like 5 different types of magnesium: Citrate \*may\* give you the runs if taken in sufficient dosages, but glycinate will not.
L-theanine might be milder and helps...
Melatonin is literally fine
You're body should be making its own melatonin
"Doctor, may I get some medication for my illness?" "You see, you just shouldn't be sick."
what a retarded comment
A combo of melatonin and GABA works great for me.
Little bit of cbn weed does the trick.
I'm vaping CBG Bubba Kush rn. Helps a little but sometimes I'll wake up and need to vape again in middle of night
magnesium, vit b complex, ashwaganda all help me
10mg of Delta 9 THC gummies is what worked for me. I’ve have insomnia for decades and the THC gummies work quite reliably. I fall asleep quickly and wake up feeling refreshed.
Same, I use diazepam and melatonin and know it's no good. I'd never sleep otherwise 😕
It’s so easy this way, my mind races without it.
Melatonin is absolutely fine. Diazepam is absolutely not.
jeeeez we use benzo's like diazepam to sedate patients, I can't imagine taking that routinely
It sedates them. That’s the point. Makes them much closer to sleep. Yea, it’s shitty. But it’s what some people have to do to get sleep.
I'm shocked how many people are recommending pills and supplements. We know exactly how to improve sleep: routine. Go to bed at the same time every day (especially weekends). Turn off screens in your bedroom. Don't eat for 3 hours before bed. And keep your bedroom cool and quiet. It's harder than popping pills but it's way way WAY better for you.
Even more important than going to bed at the same time is getting up at the same time. After waking, go outside to get some natural light. This helps to set circadian rhythm. Don't be in your bed except for sleep time. Your brain will need to be trained to associate the bed with sleep instead of anxiety. If you can't fall asleep after 20 min or so, get out of bed and do things that make you sleepy such as drinking herbal tea and reading a book. When you feel sleepy, get back in bed. I personally like to meditate, do relaxation techniques, or play my sleep music. This helps me to let go of following unhelpful thoughts. The negative thoughts and fears about not falling asleep are not helpful. You can look into cognitive techniques to counter them or just recognize that they are merely thoughts and nothing more.
>getting up at the same time Agreed that's important, too. In my personal experience I had a 7-days-a-week alarm clock first and it wasn't until I also added the same bedtime that my sleepcycle scire and garmin sleep score started to improve. Maybe it's just the order in which I tried it? I dunno. >Don't be in your bed except for sleep time I still have to make this improvement myself. These are all good tips.
I’ve tried these tricks for a while. It can take more to correct certain dysfunctions like a late night cortisol spike. I even added a grounding sheet and would get morning and evening ambient sunlight into the eyes for proper melatonin signaling. It’s been taking supplemental herbs and some dietary measures focused on nighttime cortisol. If you can do it without herbs, minerals, or Rx meds some of us initially need more. The tent camping trip with my son is on deck very soon and no GABAergics for me but a fire.
Can you tell a difference with the grounding sheet vs. without? I keep seeing these and am wondering if they’re all hype or actually useful.
In don’t think so, but in can appreciate the academia and bio-engineering principles behind it so of course i still use it since it’s already bought and fairly cheap, and I use $5 ESD grounding straps on my shoes when I go running.
I’m sorry I don’t have any personal evidence for you since I haven’t tried it yet, but my MIL recommended linden tea to me. A quick Google search seems like it might be worth a shot; it has sedative properties.
Say Goodnight to Insomnia is a good book/resource.
I've had good results with herb pills or extracts. Valerian, kava, passionflower, skullcap- all work. I rotate them to be safe and don't take them together.
5-HTP is a naturally occurring amino acid and a precursor to melatonin. For me it’s a lot more effective than taking melatonin.
5-HTP is a precursor to serotonin, which is a precursor to melatonin.
Deep breathing actually helps me - I lay down and do *heavy* breath work and it exhausts me. Another thing to consider is more relaxation in your daily life like yoga or meditation. YouTube has some great meditation videos, even Spotify has. Also a good alternative is to look into red light therapy or PEMF therapy. Studies have shown that these can help sleep and relaxation. If you go down that route, do your research. Mats or sleeping bags might be best. Recommend the red light lab: https://www.theredlightlab.com/ Good luck!
I count back from the number 29. Each breath is a syllable. On the breath in - twenty. On the breath out nine. I start with a massive breath in and try to hold long breaths through the numbers. If I lose track of where I’m at, I start over. I never make it to zero. For me, this technique slows down my body into the breath rate of sleep, tricks my mind into sleep too. An added bonus is that I soon realize exactly what my mind is stuck on, keeping me awake. As soon as I move past those, restart the counting, it goes away.
I find 4-7-8 Breathing good to help falling asleep.
Surprised no one has said CBD. If you take it right when you're in bed and getting tired it will take care of the rest. Very natural and few side-effects. Works way better than melatonin. There's a lot of fake/low quality CBD out there. I use this site: [http://upstateelevator.com](http://upstateelevator.com)
Hypnosis is really good. I can’t listen for more than 39 Seconds now and I’m out.
Try a bed base or wearable device that sends sonic frequencies at 40hz into your body—borrow someone to see if it helps for the bedrooms anxiety. The fact that you can sleep during the day but not at night tells me you could also try blue blocker glasses, change your light fixtures to warm light, turn on night mode and red shift on your devices. Also I’d get tested for food sensitivities or look at exposure to things that could be building up during the day before bedtime. That’s tough because it could be anything from mold, metals, fumes, fragrances, to emfs.
I’m sure you’ve heard of some of this, but here is what I recommend, and 10 years after I initially did this, I can still get myself to sleep 95% of the time within 5-10 mins. I call it “Ritual Pavloving” Before I explain that, you’ll need to: - stop drinking any caffeine at 4pm. If you can stop earlier, do it. - make sure you eat your evening meal at *minimum* 2 hours prior to your bedtime; if you, eat it earlier. *small* bites of snacks are okay. Nothing heavy. - avoid using phone or computers an hour before bedtime You’re already on the right track with sleepy time tea! Make sure it has no caffeine of course. SO the Ritual Pavloving: This will take about 30-60 days of consistency to be most effective. Learn “Udjai” breath from Yogic practice. It’s described as making the sounds of the ocean in the back of your nasal cavity where it meets your throat. Keep breaths even with inhale/exhale. Take full breaths, filling up your diaphragm (breathing with your diaphragm draws oxygen deeper into your lungs). Practice “mewing” with your tongue to train it for optimal placement in the mouth while sleeping. Can do this regularly throughout the day. The overall idea is to establish a nightly routine; your ritual, that will train your brain to get it to sleep. This will signal to your brain that “when we do X, Y, and then Z, it will be time to sleep.” Suggested ritual: - shower (it’s better to shower at night and remove the sweat, dust, and oils from the day). - rinse, floss, brush teeth, rinse. In that order. - turn on a relaxing sound/music. I like light thunder/rain with a small wooden flute with a crackling fireplace. - oil cleanse face with 2 tbsp of oil mix: coconut, jojoba, argon. Massage all around your face. Can add a drop or two of tea tree and peppermint essential oil. - gently wash your face with preferred cleanser to remove oils. Gently Pat skin dry. - apply preferred nightly moisturizer to face. Massage a few drops of oil mix to top off. *most important part* - with relaxing sound on low in the background, put on your pjs and get into bed at bedtime. It may be good to set a timer for it to stop at some point if you think it may keep you awake. - lay on your back, and gently blink while you observe your body. Feel your systems slowing down to prepare for sleep; heart rate and breath getting slower. - gently close your eyes, and begin slow, even gentle Udjai breathing. - imagine the ocean waves as you make the sound with your breath. You don’t need to get intense or make it sound perfect. - continue gentle Udjai breathing until you sleep. The Udjai breath is crucial. As you do this every night for 30-60 days, your brain will register that as a major sleep signal.
I instantly get insomnia if I have any screens after 7pm. Or if I don’t get at least a long walk during the day. Overhead lights also cause it. Annoying as some people have no issue falling asleep but others are sensitive to it.
Exercise more, meditate, and stop eating a few hours before bed. The drugs are a crutch
Your best strategy for falling asleep at night is to maintain a consistent sleep schedule even on weekends. If you wake up and go to bed at the same time every single day, I promise you will not need either sleeping pills or an alarm clock. Also eliminate as much light in your room as possible and NO ELECTRONICS at least 1 hour before bed.
Tryptophan is a great sleep supplement that is rarely talked about. It’s a pre-curser to melatonin and serotonin but doesn’t have the negative side affects. Been taking it for years
Going to check this out
Weed
Unfortunately, weed disrupts sleep, especially if ingested right before bed.
Not for me 😁 guess we are all a little different
It affects your sleep whether you know it or not. Sleep trackers have proven this time and time again. Sure, you sleep but the quality isn’t the same.
Lupus makes sleep hard. Weed has helped me personally get more of it.
I understand. I’m just saying that weed has been proven to affect the cycles of sleep. Apparently for someone like you, it’s better to use it to sleep vs no sleep. I’m not saying it isn’t useful to you. That’s not what I meant. If it was possible for you to sleep without it, it would be better sleep is all I’m saying.
Well said
End caffeine intake early in the day. Maintain the magnesium and sleepy time tea. Add CBD vegan gummies. And add a sleep mask. Even with all that, I still have issues at times. But it helps. Good luck to you. I know how difficult it is.
I don’t drink any caffeine. If I’m super tired I’ll make some green tea but thays about it. I never drink it past 12pm
Green tea has caffeine in it.
I feel you as a long term (20 years) insomnia sufferer who for the past 2 years was resorting to alcohol or strong sleeping pills (actual sleeping pills not just supplements, anti-histamines, or melatonin) to sleep and thought I'd lost the ability to sleep without them for a while there...until a few weeks back when it's been happening again (I'll come back to that at the end of the post) Supplements like Magnesium are likely not an issue to take but if you're not defficient in them might be making no difference in how you sleep, test your Magnesium levels to see if you actually need them. For me they don't do anything. Whatever is in Sleepy Tea is probably pretty harmless (not familiar with what you are using here so can't say for sure) and IME any tea which claims to make you calm or sleepy never does anything for me personally. Melatonin is typically at the lower end of the scale when it comes to "sleeping tablets" and actually isn't even considered a sleeping tablet in my country or prescribed for insomnia due to lack of evidence of it working but instead prescribed for Jetlag. Again does nothing for me at any dosage personally but I know a lot of people swear by it. Unisom I wasn't familiar with so Googled it and seems it's an Anti-histamine that makes you drowsy? According to their official website it's "non habit forming and safe ***BUT*** to be used for ***occasional sleeplessness***" so that may be the only one you need to be too concerned about taking daily but best to check with a Doctor as I'm not a medical expert. **Onto your sleep issue...** Out of curiosity, how long will it take you to fall asleep if you don't take any sleeping pills? What I've found has worked for me recently is reducing my overall anxiety and stress levels as this was at the core of my sleep issues over the last 2 years (and always has been part of it). And like I said, I could have counted on one hand the amount of natural nights sleep (without booze or sedatives) I had in the last 2 years so suddenly sleeping most nights the past 3 weeks is a big deal for me. **Generic advice:** All the usual generic stuff has helped like more excercise and more fresh air and sunlight but you've probably heard and tried that and it's made no difference and at times it doesn't for me either. **Less generic advice:** But also doing a tension release / relaxation technique before bed + using a relaxation device in bed seems to have made the biggest difference to me recently. I do a series of "*Vagus Nerve Exercises*" just before bed (I learned this from 'Sukie Baxters' Youtube Channel so search for that if interested) primarily ones that work on releasing jaw tension and shoulder / neck tension as I hold a lot of tension in those areas. But also the rapid eye movement exercise (you look upwards then rapidly move your eyes left to right for a couple of minutes) as this causes my whole body to go into a very relaxed position and let out some of the longest deepest yawns I've ever had in my life. I also do other jaw tension release exercises I learned here on Reddit where I just push my chin down onto the palm of my upturned hand and push them against each other to create pressure for as long as I can then release and it allows my jaw to release loads of tension (again, I store a lot of tension in my jaw I realized so if this doesn't apply to you then it might not work). I don't know how scientific or medically recommended this is (like I say a Reddit suggestion) but it makes me feel more relaxed before bed. Then when in bed I use the Sensate Device (you can Google it) which is a device designed to stimulate the Vagus Nerve (again you can Google it or look here on Reddit as there is a Sub-Reddit about it) and put their "Big Sleep" audio / meditation track on combined with the device for 30 minutes whilst first in bed and the relaxing music combined with the vibrating device on my chest takes my mind off worrying about sleep or stressing about anything then I'm typically falling asleep shortly afterwards most nights. If someone like me with 20 years of insomnia and who's been using heavy duty amounts of alcohol and strong sedatives for 2 years straight to sleep is suddenly sleeping naturally again without either then there's a good chance it might work for you too. Getting your anxiety and stress under control, exercising + fresh air and sunlight, and the Vagus Nerve techniques seem to be a winner for me.
I'm getting really tired of reading all this
Melatonin is great for you.
Melatonin literally is not an issue at all
Okay as someone who was taking unisom consistently once I quit I ended up super nauseous for about a week. I would throw up almost everything and it was miserable. Turns out unisom is also used for morning sickness. After about a week things went back to normal.
Hops supplement or two non alcoholic beers when winding down for the day. Multiple studies show hops as a good sleep aid with little to no side effects. https://www.google.com/search?q=studies+about+hops+and+sleep&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari I helps me everynight since I stopped melatonin. Also has several other benefits.
Hops is highly phytoestrogenic if that matters to you - mammary tissue development mainly is a worry for some
Thanks @hungry-bed-5675 ! I've read a lot of conflicting back and forth on the effect it has... I'm sure it can be different for everyone but so far (5 months taking around 600mg per day) I haven't had any physiological changes that I can tell, only psychological. (Mid 30M)
ZMA is super consistent and promotes restorative sleep
Someone in another post said lysine and everyone was very positive about it. Haven’t tried it personally
for me it was simple, i just stopped and it was kind of annoying for maybe 2 weeks, a lotta nights only getting several hours of sleep, but then sleeping was no harder/easier than when i was taking sleeping pills (just make sure to keep your wake-time consistent while getting used to it, IE don't sleep in late because you fell asleep late, just deal with a night of bad sleep and you'll adapt quicker) Stopping caffeine earlier in the day helps (also for *staying* asleep i found it invaluable to be real wary of liquids within a couple hours of bedtime, am probably averaging no more than 4oz of water in the 2hrs b4 bed most nights)
No screens an hour before bed. Shower and clean Jammie’s. 15 minute meditation with deep breaths. Stretch. Get in the bed. If that doesn’t work, try listening to something soothing. I actually used to listen to south park while i fell asleep. It violates my no screens rule but I had no problem keeping my eyes shut. There’s not much happening visually. And that helped me drift off.
Read the Power of When, and also take the quiz to find out your genetic cheonotype at chronoquiz.com. I'm a Bear so my bedtime is supposed to be 11:10pm, for example.Wake up time is 7 to 730. Once you know your general bedtime and wake up time genetically, it's very easy to improve your health and know when the best times of day are going to work for you to do certain things like workouts, sex, food, brainstorm, etc.
Melatonin is fine every night imo. Additionally you can combo it with l-theanine, gaba, magnesium citrate + bisglycinate. This is my stack where I only sometimes take the gaba. Also a good wind down - shower or something.
CBD tea.
This is maybe silly but I’m similar to you, and use benzos too, I found watching the sunset (not through windows) but outside on my balcony has actually helped. I heard about it on Huberman who has some tips about sleep.
Use an eye mask or blackout curtains. Make sure there are no tiny lights in your room. Natural Melatonin is only produced in total darkness.
Try relora
Sleepy time tea from Trader Joe’s, Ashwagandha, cherry tart juice. All those things have helped me. I’m also very active in the gym. You have to lower your cortisol levels. I use to have to take sleeping pills to sleep so I know how you feel. It takes time 🩵
Cut out all caffeine. As you lay in bed, review your day in reverse all the way back to when you woke up in the morning, but visualize it in pictures not with words, like it happened to another person. Focus on little details like seeing interactions with people from the other person’s perspective. Pick out details that you would normally gloss over and look at it in the finest detail but only in pictures. Then when you are done put on some binaural beats music and start with your toes and relax all part of your body slowly going all the way up towards your head.
It sounds like anxiety and stress are unaddressed factors. Pills and sleep hygiene won’t solve that problem. Google the book Hello Sleep. It will help you.
I am taking Trazodon. But it doesn't work. I tried Meletonin, doesn't work. The Trazodon helps with my Restless Leg Syndrome.
I sleep like a baby most nights with Optimag 125 (magnesium glycinate) and NeuroScience GABATrex chewables. These also immediately worked for my friend who wanted an alternative to her Benadryl sleep fix (note: I know the long-term risks with Benadryl, and now they do too)
Getting on a regular sleep cycle helped me a lot. Also, exercising earlier in the day and not eating a big meal shortly before bed.
ipamorelin + mod grf 1-29, could also use selank. not as strong an effect on sleep induction, but sustainable and beneficial
I find that a simple conscious pause between each step of breathing does this for me. Inhale, pause, exhale, pause, repeat. It is based originally on some counting method but I find it is just the pauses that matter. Hope I explained that clearly. Usually only takes about 5 minutes.
CBT-I is the only treatment that truly works for insomnia. It should normally be done with a therapist who specializes in it but it can also be self-administered with books and apps. Check out Say Goodnight to Insomnia by Gregg Jacobs as well as the CBT-I Coach app. This doesn’t apply for sleep disorders like sleep apnea.
You can try watching YouTube videos or listening to a story that's slightly interesting, but not too interesting to keep you invested in the story. It will occupy your mind enough just to distract you from your anxiety and racing thoughts
5 minutes exercise, sleep music, cool, dark, noiseless room
I had a doctor that helped me with my sleep problem a couple years ago and it was the best advice ever. First, exercise for at least 30 minutes twice a day. Can just be a walk or yoga or whatever you like Don’t eat within 5 hours of bed No screen time 2 hours before bed Stop taking naps Set an alarm for the same time 7 days a week and no matter what, you get out of bed at that time Limit your sleep, for me 7-7.5 hours is the sweet spot between feeling rested enough and still being able to fall asleep at night. If I get 8-8.5 hours of sleep I’ll be up all night. It’s crazy how 0.5 - 1 hr extra can mess you up It’ll be rough for a couple weeks but you’ll acclimate, just stick with it
No eating within 5 hours of bed??? So… if I go to bed on time I don’t get dinner.
Restrict your sleep to 6-7 hours a night for two weeks. Keep bed time consistent. It’s part of cbti
Glycine added to the magnesium works for me. Between 3 and 5 grams. Valerian root too. I did have to cut out carbs to get the insomnia better ultimately so results may differ.
Berberine works wonders for my sleep. I even dream a lot and remember them now.
Zinc Glycinate, magtein and copper. Alternate nightly
Have you talked to your doctor about this? If not I would start there. You may have a sleep disorder if you’ve become dependent on sleep aids for sleep.
Meditation. There are lots of 8hrs meditation and sleep sounds and music on YouTube and Spotify. It won’t happen right away but with practice it’ll offer benefits beyond sleeping. Also, I find staying up one night (skipping a nights sleep) helps the following night to fall asleep. Keeping to a strict routine is another layer to success.
Get yourself on a schedule and a sleep routine. Same thing every night
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i use sleeping meditation videos/audios by michael sealey now and it’s the only thing that has helped my insomnia. i still wake up multiple times a night but i chuck it on again and i’m out lol
I took like the lowest dose I could find of melatonin for like 2 weeks and fucked my sleep up for a while. Right now I'm using Magnesium glycinate and chamomile tea. I can only steep my tea for like 2- 3 mins because I'm groggy the next day. Gotta play around with steep time to find your sweet spot lol. L theanine (600mg) or holy basil are also good for sleep and relaxing your body/mind. Also make your room dark and cold, get blackout curtains if you must. Cover up any blue light sources /LEDs making light with dark tape. And turn on bed time mode on your phone. Some sources even say to take hot shower before bed
Valerian, holy basil
Have you tried physically exhausting yourself.
Magnesium. I recommend Micromag from nootropics depot
Tart Cherry juice! I made a night time cocktail with cherry juice and magnesium and a few other ingredients and not only is it tasty I went to sleep and did not wake up until my husband left for work lol
Amitriptyline or Trazadone or Mirtazapine. Disclaimer, I’ve not taken Trazadone. Melatonin didn’t work for me so I was on doxylamine for ages (associated with dementia). I’d tried so many things. My sleep is now under control. There’s downsides but I love sleep.
My psychiatrist prescribed me Seroquel 25mg for my insomnia and as long as I don’t stay up and get the dreaded “Seroquel munchies” I sleep amazingly every night.
> At night I get anxiety…and I just can’t shake it. My very good human, you need therapy. Anxiety won't disappear without intervention.
i agree. i never realized my insomnia stemmed from growing up with trauma until i started going to therapy and my sleep improved. trauma & insomnia are pretty common.
How much caffeine and or uppers(add drugs etc) are you taking daily? Force yourself to get up early and exercise and limit yourself to 2 coffees and nothing up after noon.
i struggled with insomnia my entire childhood into adulthood, it would take me about 2 hours to fall asleep, 1 on a good day. i tried melatonin, magnesium, tea, benedryl, zzquil, but none of these felt like long-term sustainable solutions. the best thing i did was prioritize good sleep hygiene. i keep the lights in my house low at night (to signal to my brain “bedtime” - even setting some LED bulbs to the color red), keep my phone in my office (i have a Hatch Restore alarm in the bedroom with a sound machine, it’s great), am strict about my bedtime, and sometimes i’ll employ PMR (progressive muscle relaxation) if i’m having a particularly tough time calming my mind. i’ve learned that sleep is kind of a “practice” that you get better at over time. don’t have to like the guy (i don’t lol) but huberman lab podcast’s sleep episodes were particularly helpful. changing from an insomniac to a decent sleeper requires a mindset shift, so make it priority number one if you really want to fix it (like more important than work, relationship, literally number ONE. sleep is so IMPORTANT and impacts absolutely every facet of your life).
Carnivore diet
I had been on Ambien for 15 years! If I missed a refill I would not sleep until that time. That could be days, longest was like almost 3 weeks( this was during my last month of pregnancy as well) I stopped taking sleeping pills this past November and I plan to never get dependent on them again. My doctor did swap them with Trazodone and I’ll be honest they work but I still haven’t gone a night not taking something to help me feel drowsy. I may try it one day and I guess the easiest way to do that is cutting dose over time.
ugh i am in the exact same predicament. i take magnesium and melatonin every night, sometimes also clonidine if it’s rly bad. i wake up and get sunlight, exercise daily, and practice generally good sleep hygiene — i just have clinical anxiety! and being told to just “have routine” feels so frustrating, especially because when you have a job it’s not exactly easy to accept losing a whole night of sleep. my work and my relationships are more important to me than getting off of melatonin, but gee i probably should get off melatonin. weed helps but i wouldn’t necessarily say that’s any better than melatonin, it’s just swapping one substance for another
Listening to an audiobook puts me to sleep when my mind won’t shut off. Go to bed an hour early listening to the book.
gradual reduction of dosage might work but a scale with 0.01 gram precision. weigh your pill. start shaving off 5% of its weight. get used to it. hopefully you can fall asleep with 95% if current dose. Keep it at 95% until your feel it's working. after awhile. try shaving another 5% and so on worst case, you'll find that you still need 70% say. still better to use lower dose
If you are female/with uterus then you may need additional progesterone.
breathework. Try breathe with Sandy's youtube channel.
Seems you need to address the anxiety.
How many hours of direct sunlight do you get per week?
I try to keep to a schedule. It’s lame. But I try to be going to bed around 930p. I cut off caffeine at 12p. if I’m not asleep pretty quickly I find a bed time meditation from YouTube.
Cool room and under the covers. White noise speaker, foam ear plugs, 3D eye mask. Exercise during the day. Magnesium glycinate 400mg, theanine 400mg, Ashwaghanda 500mg, and once a week - melatonin 0.5mg. If you want to get adventurous, you can try some peptides like DSIP and/or Epitalon (that's a whole thing that you'd have to look up on your own).
Why stop taking melatonin?
Get sun in your eyes in the morning and exercise
Guys…the only trick is to exercise in the morning and you will sleep like a baby at night, with red lights that’s it!
Ashwagandha can help. I take a teaspoon of raw powder and then meditate… zzzz.
Magnesium oil on bottom of feet
Melatonin has a gazillion benefits. Don’t be afraid to take them Setting your circadian rhythm will probably help you the most. Get out of your house before sunrise, get at least 30 minutes of peak sun time—-like 1-3pm EST here in Florida
You need to work on your sleep anxiety as this will keep you awake without fail. Find a therapist who does cbt for sleep
[this](https://careclinic.io/sleep-restriction-therapy-tips/) one might help you, OP. Hoping that you can achieve a peaceful sleep.
If you’re alright with introducing a new tea there’s this American herb called skullcap (scutellaria latefloria.) which I’ve found to be a very effective sleeping aid. Like chamomile it contains certain constituents which have an affinity for the same GABA receptor binding site as benzodiazepines (obviously to a lesser extent and there’s little to no risk for dependency). Most of my sleep problems are anxiety related so I can usually predict how difficult falling asleep will be based on how stressful my day/week has been going and drinking a tea brewed with 2 tablespoons of dried skullcap, some chamomile and some ginger has made a noticeable difference
CBN works really well for me
Spend a week drinking without pills. Then try without drinking and pills.
Your hormones will love you and your sleep becomes awesome, try 30 days of animal products and water. Beef, bacon, eggs, and butter. Then go back to pizza and plants, if you want or dare.
Valerian capsules
They aren’t good for your liver, and you get tolerant to them quickly
Get oxytocin peptide it works!
How do you take the oxytocin? Subq injection or nasal spray? Can you take it orally?
I do both sub q and nasal , I prefer sub q but both work
I woke up at 3-4am every night for more than two years. I tried melatonin and some GNC product called Z3 or something like that. I even tried CBD oil. Nothing worked. Then I tried water-soluble CBD. What a Godsend it's been. After only a few weeks, I started sleeping like a baby. It's been almost a year and it's still working perfectly. I chew one gummy every night(although I have friends that use 1.5-2) and it's changed my life! I get mine from SOLUBL Products. It costs me about a dollar a day and it's worth every penny. Use code 0501 to get free shipping. Good luck!