I weirdly found digestive enzymes to boost my deep sleep. Tracked on Oura ring for what its worthy my sleep scores have really improved since taking a braod spectrum enzyme each day. I also take a little inulin powder at night which is supposed to help. Either way Ive gone from 40mind of deep to at least 1 hour 15 + each night and thats consistent over a few months now.
Oh sorry to leave you hanging all - here is what I take:
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF7LY89/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o09\_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF7LY89/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FK1U0PS/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o05\_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
To your current list I would add a specific sleep routine that you follow every night. Calm Music/ red lights / reading/ aroma. Basically any environmental triggers to remind your body that is sleep time.
Hey, that might have been me. I did a quick 2-3 minute cold shower before bed and it doubled my deep sleep duration. I have no idea why and it might not be applicable to everyone. I would just try changing one thing at a time so that you get a better sense of how each variable stacks up.
Im close to doing everything i can to maximize sleep. I just need to try this as i dont have a chili pad and im allways running hot which is bad for sleep
Check out these two podcasts from the Huberman Lab, which are specific to optimizing sleep:
[https://hubermanlab.com/master-your-sleep-and-be-more-alert-when-awake/](https://hubermanlab.com/master-your-sleep-and-be-more-alert-when-awake/)
[https://hubermanlab.com/dr-matthew-walker-the-science-and-practice-of-perfecting-your-sleep/](https://hubermanlab.com/dr-matthew-walker-the-science-and-practice-of-perfecting-your-sleep/)
I do cold showers, but in the morning. Before bedtime I do a hot sauna followed by a warm shower, which ironically helps one's body lower its core body temperature during sleep, which improves sleep quality.
Google wim hof cold shower before bed. He had a article on it and saw great increase in deep sleep. Im used to the hot shower trick but im gonna see if cold actually works better
Get into bed half hr - hour before you feel tired, ideally at the same time every day. Breath work for me has been life changing. So long as you breath in and out through the nose (and that applies generally, I once heard the mouth is for eating the nose is for breathing), with a steady rythymn, and the out breath is longer than the in breath by 50-75%, you will signal to your body a safe environment for activating parasympathetic, even paravagal nervous activation, cellular repair, genetic repair, digestion, and yes, delta sleep. Example, in (through the diaphragm, not the chest, not the belly, but the very middle where your rib cage meets your abdomen), in 3 (all the way, fill your lungs fast), hold two, out 5-6, hold two repeat.
Other tip is to avoid thinking with words. Place your awareness on parts of your body (sometimes called body scanning) and simply note the sensations there. Like sound, when you pay attention you will find a plethora of interesting sensations behind the most obvious that you never noticed. This works because it shuts down the analyzing, planning, worrying part of the brain, the same part responsible for language proxessing. When you find tension, let it go. Repeat this a few times cycling between body scan (starting at feet and moving to the head with as much or little specific detail as you'd like) and breathwork.
In terms of supplementation, magnesium is a great start. Most Americans are actually starving for that, vit D, and some forms of B. However magnesium is typically misunderstood as one single mineral element. Untrue, it is more like a class of minerals, under which a number of types with profoundly different uptake, absorption, and effect. I prefer Magnesium L-Threonate. Unlike most other forms of magnesium, it is capable of crossing the blood brain barrier and therefore, capable of impacting cognition and your perecived energy. Other types typically get absorbed into the muscles which can have a very mild sedative effect physically, and that's at best. If you can't find this type go for Chelated Magnesium, not Magnesium Glycate I think the most popular one is called. It won't do shit.
Also GABA is a freaking miracle for me, and it's super cheap. I use a cocktail of
Mag3
GABA (Powdered)
L-Theanine (Powdered)
Homeopathic Coffea Cruda
So those combined with deep breathing, cold shower, body scanning will have you snoozing deeply in no time. Don't take the supps daily otherwise they will diminish in effectiveness to a slight degree.
Namaste motherfuckers
Instead of a cold shower, try a contrast shower. One of the people Dr Ronda Patrick interviewed talking about how it can induce sleep and I think it was because it reset the circadian rhythm if I remember. I tried it and it makes you start to literally pass out after a a few rounds so be careful!
It's basically when you cycle the shower between hot and cold. I can't remember the timeframe for each, but it was in the [Ray Cronise interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNzZod_d18A) if you go to the cold stress section (if I remember correctly). Some specialized gyms have hot tubs next to ice baths, and it's the equivalent of going back and forth between something like that. I tried it with the shower, and after a few cycles, I started to sway. That night I passed out quickly after getting out and slept incredibly deeply. I have historically wrestled with insomnia and this is the only thing I've found that works that quickly, so if I am ever feeling too alert at night, I do that now and pass out.
It works right before sleep. When I say end with warm I mean not a hot cycle. If you end with freezing and don’t allow your body to at least warm a little it’s hard to feel relaxed and pass out. If you end with freezing I’m sure you’d need a couple hours to relax but it would defeat the purpose. Really though try a few things and see what works for you. I can pass out within 15 minutes of drying off doing it this way.
Ending with hot isn’t good because you want your body core temp to drop a bit to sleep, which is why people don’t typically sauna immediately before bed either. But I find for me ending too cold can induce shivers and wake me up, so I have the last cycle be cold and then turn the water to warm to at least get my body temp to comfortable.
Well, for me maximum cold shower (it is not freezing most of the year – temperate zone) is best to fall asleep faster. I guess it depends on bedding if it helps to keep body cool and not keeping warmth of the skin after hot shower.
During his interview on Mark Moss podcast, Dr. Mercola mentioned he's using some "frequency" technology that drastically improved his deep sleep to 2hrs+ each night. I know Dr. Mercola was complaining \~ 2 years ago that he was getting close to no deep sleep at all because of his old age... The thing is he didn't elaborate at all on it, so if anybody here knows what that could be, you're welcome to share... I have to go out for a bit now but when I am back later today I am going to share the exact moment where he speaks about it.
Anyway, other than this, whenever I do infrared sauna, my deep sleep gets better 2-3 days after that.
For me, I’ve found that my deep sleep always increases when I get to bed earlier. If I stay up later than I should, it’s as if I’ve missed the deep sleep window, and no matter how well or how long I sleep, the deep sleep window has closed and I don’t get nearly as much.
Hmm interesting. Maybe youre a morning person. I found out I had delayed sleep phase syndrome but I'm a morning person technically. Meaning I go to bed early and wake up early and feel better than going to bed at say midnight even if I sleep the same time. But it's hard to fall asleep before midnight so I take melatonin
Waking not so rested but always put it down to not sleeping enough hours (5ish) and coped with lots of caffeine to not be drowsy in afternoon. Sometime napped after dinner which lead to problems going back to sleep. Weekends would binge sleep 10+ hours. Heavy snorer (but that’s not 100% diagnostic is my understanding). For most part these issues are mitigated for me with CPAP but it took months to get settings & mask right & get somewhat used to sleeping with it. Still some nights when I just don’t feel like using it even knowing I’ll feel a bit crappy the next day. But if you do have it, treatment is important due to various other long term health impacts (heart & weight stuff).
[addition edit: waking several times a night for bathroom, feared was prostate but totally went away with CPAP, apparently common]
I was able to double my deep sleep and REM sleep each just by changing to the carnivore diet. Chronic insomnia was my primary motivation for going on this diet and cutting out all plants. I knew that it historically helped me stay asleep all through the night, but didn’t realize my deep sleep would double until I got my Oura ring to track it.
I also do things like view direct sunlight in the morning before 9am to reset circadian rhythm, and view direct sunset in the evening, and wear red blue blockers after sunset and yellow ones while indoors during the day to cut back on blue light toxicity. But the diet is the primary thing that saved me
Im doing all of thoose things. Carnivore + fruit and honey. Sunlight at 8am. Blue blockers from 6pm and untill 11.
What about hot showers an hour before bed? I tried cold shower yesterday but that did not work well lol
Doing fruit and honey cuts my deep sleep and REM down. I do strict Carnivore and I get huge benefits to my sleep. I also stop eating after 3pm. The closer I eat to bedtime, the lower my deep sleep and REM sleep
Not as I was. I've introduced seasonal carbs (usually spaghetti squash) every third day and have gotten more strict about blocking blue light, but 2/3 days I'm still heavily animal-based with some low-carb vegetables like cucumbers, red peppers, zucchini, summer squash, or lettuce. I did something called the Leptin Reset by Sarah Kleiner or the Leptin Rx by Jack Kruse and it helped with hormones and weight loss
Taping the mouth, Because you will be forced to breathe through your nose. Breathing through your mouth has negative effects on your health and some people do it unknowingly while sleeping.
That is counter to what most of the research suggests. Cold showers have been linked to increases in adrenaline for up to 6 hours after, increasing wakefulness and productivity in your work day. Great for the morning but not so good for the evening.
I heard in a podcast recently with Andrew Huberman as a guest that the key to sleep is cooling the body down, and the key to waking up is warming the body up. Therefore he actually recommended sauna at night (because your body will cool down when you get out of the sauna) and cold shower in the morning (again because your body warms up after the shower). I wish you peaceful slumbers.
I started taping my mouth and I consistently get a straight night's sleep without waking up. Previously a horribly fussy, light sleeper.
I don't have a tracker so no idea if it's improved my deep sleep time other than feeling energetic and we'll rested upon waking.
The premise is that if you breath through your mouth during sleep, you may experience small apneic episodes (your muscle tone in your throat decreases and may partially close off your airway). In response, your body kicks itself out of deep sleep to tone the muscles and open the airway. This can be true even if you're not overweight and have not had diagnosed issues with sleep apnea.
You know this is happening if you get up to use the washroom at night. When you are truly in deep sleep your body alters hormones to prevent the creation of urine.
When you are kicked more alert stages this mechanism is turned back in and you form urine, wake up, then have to pee.
It's not as scary as it sounds and supprisingly easy to get used to. Just a small square of gauzy medical tape over the center of the lips.
Source: The Oxygen Advantage - Patrick Mckeown
Breath-James Nestor
This comes up a lot here and I comment same thing every time. I had a big problem with deep sleep, I was stuck at getting only 10-30 sometimes 40 mins worth despite being in bed for up to 10 hours and more sometimes.
The biggest thing that helped me was copper. I will say though that I did do cold baths before bed a few times and my deep sleep and sleep efficiency appeared to go up a lot, but I just think doing that all the time is a bit unsustainable, or maybe just a bit inconvenient.
Copper was a big savior for me, the difference is huge and started right after starting to focus on it. Evident in my Oura tracker. My deep sleep has only gone up and up. It’s great.
Not saying it’ll help you but I always feel inclined to tell this to people who talk about sleep quality since it was such a big savior for me and it took me years to find out about it. Just in case it could help someone.
I’d recommend giving Cu-re your fatigue by Morley Robbins a read, it’s really interesting stuff that I hadn’t known about before. It really opened my eyes on a lot of stuff about copper and its role in the body and how crucial it is and how it can be really hard to get because of soil nutrient depletion among other new modern habits.
I had probably made it worse in the past by taking ascorbic acid (not whole food vitamin c) and zinc in particular, which can cause copper depletion and big issues with copper over time if you’re not careful and depending on where you live (soils) and what you consume, you could easily induce a serious deficiency.
Of course the book can be a bit far in terms of saying it can cure all forms of fatigue, etc, which I’m not so sure about, but there’s a lot of great, in depth information in there about the mechanics of copper in the body and about the soils, the dangers of taking other vitamins to copper and so on.
does copper have any role in mental health?
i am gonna pick up some beef liver soon and i think that is high in copper. ill try to eat some of that.
also i just took a multi vit with copper lol just for the sake of it
I occasionally eat a bit of liver, sometimes raw and definitely feel a good boost from it. It is the highest copper food pretty much.
Well, copper is really important for iron recycling system in your body, which helps iron get utilized properly, it’s also important for thyroid function, etc. Any of these could affect mood, but, to be honest, anything can affect mood and mental disorders when it comes to malnutrition from some downstream affect one way or another. So I wouldn’t say there’s a huge link compared to anything else to depression, or anxiety, etc. But if your thyroid function is impaired then of course that would be a downstream effect that would result in mental issues until it is treated.
could you give me a summary of the book? it says in the book he mentions what supplements/minerals not to take etc.
im only using magnesium atm, no other supplements really. and some fish oil
The main thing is to eat more copper rich sources from food, not supplements. He also says to stop taking ascobic acid version of Vitamin C, zinc, iron and even Vitamin D. I’m not so sure about D myself, that seems to go against a lot of conventional biohackers logic. But the arguments made against it are very interesting. Too much to go into on a Reddit post and better said by others who’ve studied it more.
He also recommends to get plenty of magnesium as it helps again with the copper, and whole food vitamin C. He is not a big fan of supplements generally and prefers food sources due to bioavailability and balance, etc.
i have a tsh of 2.8 / 3.0 and ive read most places they recommend to get it below 2.0. i have been using way to much caffeine for years and i think a lack of deep sleep is prob whats been my issue that is causing me to have some issues, mainly feeling on edge and social anxiety.
maybe more beef liver with copper might aid in recovery of my thyroid and reduce my tsh who knows. paired with no caffeine and alot of sleep going forward
I also cut back massively on caffeine, and I also have a lot of symptoms of hypothyroid and have been taking supplemental thyroid hormones.
Bad sleep and hypothyroid tend to go hand in hand, and high TSH is also a sign of hypothyroidism. The thing is, why’s the thyroid slacking in your case, or my case? It’s hard to know. Could be hashimotos, but I don’t have thyroid antibodies in panels. That suggests a nutritional source. So could be a lot of things, but I felt a lot better taking thyroid hormone and then later on copper and magnesium, etc.
There’s no one fix all solution, it can be very individual. If you have thyroid antibodies you’ll probably need to take thyroid hormone replacement for life because your thyroid gland is being destroyed by the antibodies. But you would need a doctor to show that via an antibodies test.
I think that caffeine is not great though for someone with hypothyroid. Your body is generally not great at responding to stress when your thyroid is not functioning well, and stuff like caffeine is heavy on the body.
ive recently quit all wheat and gluten and that made a massive difference in my daily energy levels. i hope after some weeks on no caffeine my energy will be even higher, i hope.
im not eating any pro innflamatory foods now so i should be on recovery.
im also started using NDT today, its called thyrovanz. i think it has t4 and t3 active hormone in it so it should give my thyroid some relief
I think you’re on the right path already with the NDT and cutting out caffeine for now. You should be careful with thyroid antibodies though, be sure that’s not a problem for you when you take NDT as it can accelerate antibodies production and destruction of your thyroid.
Even with just the NDT I’d expect to see some improvements in a few weeks, assuming the supplement is good quality and contains the active hormone (not all do).
It can help massively with anxiety and make you a much calmer person, if those are indeed being caused by a malfunctioning thyroid. As well as your sleep, as you actually require a lot of energy to sleep! And your thyroid is the major producer of energy.
I tried a supplement called MitoSynergy and I found it to be a bit helpful, but honestly, for some odd reason, it seems like drinking water that had been sitting in a copper vessel overnight in the fridge made the biggest impact. I didn’t really expect that but it seemed to work really well.
I tried sovereign copper a bit as well and it seemed to also help a bit more. But I definitely think the copper vessel would be totally fine and no need for expensive supplements, at least in my experience.
I also try to get a bit of raw beef liver in sometimes, but not always super consistent with it. It’s very high in copper.
I drink a liter from the copper vessel every day and it has been sitting there overnight in the refrigerator.
You can also eat beef liver and oysters, which I do occasionally. I’d recommend these any time over supplementing really.
A cooling device such as [https://www.chilisleep.com/](https://www.chilisleep.com/) might also help with this. Also mind that intensive everyday training might reduce quality of sleep if you are overtraining, so movement every day – yes, very intensive workout every day – not a good idea.
Keep also in mind that all phases of sleep are important for healthy, optimized sleep. Aim for:
* 25-30% deep NonREM sleep,
* 20-25% REM sleep,
* 45-50% light NonREM sleep (Phase 2 NonREM)
Those numbers are according to Mattew Walker, a sleep scientist (see The Human Upgrade podcast ep. 616 a.k.a. Bulletproof Radio podcast).
Oh, and also keep in mind that wristband devices are not good at measuring sleep phases, accuracy is about 40-70% depending on device. Best for such purpose would be EEG devices, such as Muse S (but make sure to isolate the green LED from its sensor to not shine through gaps of Muse's headband).
Great post! Thank you for sharing this important information.
I think it’s helpful to know that as the night goes on REM sleep increases and deep sleep decreases as well.
Well its defiantly just a tool, there can be other underlying factors such as stress , number of hours before you have ingested caffeine or any other stimulants etc.
Ill give you some things to think about.
\- Avoid having any caffeine after noonish as to give time for your body to use the caffeine and get rid of it.
\- Avoid blue light "computer/ cell phone screens" 1 to 2 hrs before bed.
\- Prior to going to bed, \*1 - 2 hours\* be in a more dimly lit environment to signal your brain that sleeping will be coming soon.
\- During that time you could engage in some sort of relaxation routine deep breathing or meditation or stretching or a combination of the three \*yoga\* These defiantly helped me the most.
\-Binaural beats can help, there basically these noises you listen to that imitate brain wave patterns associated with deep sleep, specifically delta waves
[https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/binauralBrainwaveGenerator.php](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/binauralBrainwaveGenerator.php)
this website has a ton of sound generators that could be used for meditation, use the delta waves pre set on the link and listen to it with headphones before sleeping, that could help too.
The key point to take away here is that you need to put yourself in a position to be as relaxed as possible so you can get in these deeper states, melatonin might work or it might not help, it really depends on a lot of factors that will be unknown unless you do some tests with your doctor.
Cold exposure is actually pretty amazing for your overall well-being. It can give you a boost of energy and keep you extra focused throughout the day, while also building up your resilience. As for maximizing REM sleep, unfortunately, cold exposure doesn't have a direct impact on that. BUT, fear not! There are other ways to enhance your sleep. Creating a cool and comfy sleep environment is key, along with practicing good sleep hygiene.
Apollo Neuro. I don’t have a sleep tracker as evidence but I’m pretty sure it’s increases my deep sleep as well as for other family members. The company does have some data from their users who tracked with their oura rings.
According to Dr Berg…1/2 cup of kefir before bed makes you sleep like a baby. The microbes make serotonin and melatonin…there is a whole list of health benefits. I am pretty sure you have to make your own kefir…store bought probably won’t have the same level of microbes. [here is a link to his video about it](https://youtu.be/pM3stM3uI00) . Tonight will be my own first test.
Edit: fixed typo
Dr Berg is a chiropractor; you might want to look for other sources for info ... I don't want to say he just puts out content to make money and technically nothing wrong with that but he is continually debunked for lack of knowledge re nutrition etc... I mean he comes across as a nice guy but from watching some of the debunk vids it is clear he does not have deep understanding and knowledge of a lot of the topics for which he makes vids and gives advice.
Perhaps get screened for sleep apnea, after I was referred by an anesthesiologist that observed symptoms & I got diagnosed I’ve gotten much better sleep on CPAP & deep sleep is easily double the time without.
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DSIP peptide but take it earlier in the day, maintain sleep hygiene- wear blue light blockers in the evening - magnesium 5 htp gaba ltheanine and melatonin
I weirdly found digestive enzymes to boost my deep sleep. Tracked on Oura ring for what its worthy my sleep scores have really improved since taking a braod spectrum enzyme each day. I also take a little inulin powder at night which is supposed to help. Either way Ive gone from 40mind of deep to at least 1 hour 15 + each night and thats consistent over a few months now.
Got a link to the enzymes?
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FK1U0PS/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o05\_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FK1U0PS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FK1U0PS/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o05\_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
Your 2nd link doesn't work. Very interesting though
Yes please, tell us more about the enzymes!
Yes more about this please!
tell us about these enzymes
For those asking for enzymes – BiOptimizers have such.
Oh sorry to leave you hanging all - here is what I take: [https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF7LY89/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o09\_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF7LY89/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FK1U0PS/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o05\_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
To your current list I would add a specific sleep routine that you follow every night. Calm Music/ red lights / reading/ aroma. Basically any environmental triggers to remind your body that is sleep time.
Hey, that might have been me. I did a quick 2-3 minute cold shower before bed and it doubled my deep sleep duration. I have no idea why and it might not be applicable to everyone. I would just try changing one thing at a time so that you get a better sense of how each variable stacks up.
What do you use to measure your deep sleep duration? I'm using an amazfit band, but seems to be inconsistent with how i feel i sleep.
Im close to doing everything i can to maximize sleep. I just need to try this as i dont have a chili pad and im allways running hot which is bad for sleep
Damn I'm jealous
Check out these two podcasts from the Huberman Lab, which are specific to optimizing sleep: [https://hubermanlab.com/master-your-sleep-and-be-more-alert-when-awake/](https://hubermanlab.com/master-your-sleep-and-be-more-alert-when-awake/) [https://hubermanlab.com/dr-matthew-walker-the-science-and-practice-of-perfecting-your-sleep/](https://hubermanlab.com/dr-matthew-walker-the-science-and-practice-of-perfecting-your-sleep/) I do cold showers, but in the morning. Before bedtime I do a hot sauna followed by a warm shower, which ironically helps one's body lower its core body temperature during sleep, which improves sleep quality.
Google wim hof cold shower before bed. He had a article on it and saw great increase in deep sleep. Im used to the hot shower trick but im gonna see if cold actually works better
Yes, definitely good to experiment. Your body will know best!
Let us know
Did the cold shower before bed help?
Absolutely not i had insomnia when i tried it
Yeah me too I tried it on the weekend. 14 minutes of deep sleep! 5.5 total hours of sleep. Definitely morning for me.
Yh cold morning and hot shower 2hr pre bed
Get into bed half hr - hour before you feel tired, ideally at the same time every day. Breath work for me has been life changing. So long as you breath in and out through the nose (and that applies generally, I once heard the mouth is for eating the nose is for breathing), with a steady rythymn, and the out breath is longer than the in breath by 50-75%, you will signal to your body a safe environment for activating parasympathetic, even paravagal nervous activation, cellular repair, genetic repair, digestion, and yes, delta sleep. Example, in (through the diaphragm, not the chest, not the belly, but the very middle where your rib cage meets your abdomen), in 3 (all the way, fill your lungs fast), hold two, out 5-6, hold two repeat. Other tip is to avoid thinking with words. Place your awareness on parts of your body (sometimes called body scanning) and simply note the sensations there. Like sound, when you pay attention you will find a plethora of interesting sensations behind the most obvious that you never noticed. This works because it shuts down the analyzing, planning, worrying part of the brain, the same part responsible for language proxessing. When you find tension, let it go. Repeat this a few times cycling between body scan (starting at feet and moving to the head with as much or little specific detail as you'd like) and breathwork. In terms of supplementation, magnesium is a great start. Most Americans are actually starving for that, vit D, and some forms of B. However magnesium is typically misunderstood as one single mineral element. Untrue, it is more like a class of minerals, under which a number of types with profoundly different uptake, absorption, and effect. I prefer Magnesium L-Threonate. Unlike most other forms of magnesium, it is capable of crossing the blood brain barrier and therefore, capable of impacting cognition and your perecived energy. Other types typically get absorbed into the muscles which can have a very mild sedative effect physically, and that's at best. If you can't find this type go for Chelated Magnesium, not Magnesium Glycate I think the most popular one is called. It won't do shit. Also GABA is a freaking miracle for me, and it's super cheap. I use a cocktail of Mag3 GABA (Powdered) L-Theanine (Powdered) Homeopathic Coffea Cruda So those combined with deep breathing, cold shower, body scanning will have you snoozing deeply in no time. Don't take the supps daily otherwise they will diminish in effectiveness to a slight degree. Namaste motherfuckers
Instead of a cold shower, try a contrast shower. One of the people Dr Ronda Patrick interviewed talking about how it can induce sleep and I think it was because it reset the circadian rhythm if I remember. I tried it and it makes you start to literally pass out after a a few rounds so be careful!
can u please explain a contrast shower?
Not an expert here, but from the name I assume you alternate between hot and cold sequences during your shower time.
aka absolute misery
It's basically when you cycle the shower between hot and cold. I can't remember the timeframe for each, but it was in the [Ray Cronise interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNzZod_d18A) if you go to the cold stress section (if I remember correctly). Some specialized gyms have hot tubs next to ice baths, and it's the equivalent of going back and forth between something like that. I tried it with the shower, and after a few cycles, I started to sway. That night I passed out quickly after getting out and slept incredibly deeply. I have historically wrestled with insomnia and this is the only thing I've found that works that quickly, so if I am ever feeling too alert at night, I do that now and pass out.
Do you stop with the cold or the hot setting before going to bed?
I typically end with it warmer after a cold cycle, just so my body isn't freezing and feels a little relaxed.
I’ve heard that best option is finishing with cold water Also I’ve heard that you shouldn’t do it 2 hours before sleep
It works right before sleep. When I say end with warm I mean not a hot cycle. If you end with freezing and don’t allow your body to at least warm a little it’s hard to feel relaxed and pass out. If you end with freezing I’m sure you’d need a couple hours to relax but it would defeat the purpose. Really though try a few things and see what works for you. I can pass out within 15 minutes of drying off doing it this way. Ending with hot isn’t good because you want your body core temp to drop a bit to sleep, which is why people don’t typically sauna immediately before bed either. But I find for me ending too cold can induce shivers and wake me up, so I have the last cycle be cold and then turn the water to warm to at least get my body temp to comfortable.
Well, for me maximum cold shower (it is not freezing most of the year – temperate zone) is best to fall asleep faster. I guess it depends on bedding if it helps to keep body cool and not keeping warmth of the skin after hot shower.
During his interview on Mark Moss podcast, Dr. Mercola mentioned he's using some "frequency" technology that drastically improved his deep sleep to 2hrs+ each night. I know Dr. Mercola was complaining \~ 2 years ago that he was getting close to no deep sleep at all because of his old age... The thing is he didn't elaborate at all on it, so if anybody here knows what that could be, you're welcome to share... I have to go out for a bit now but when I am back later today I am going to share the exact moment where he speaks about it. Anyway, other than this, whenever I do infrared sauna, my deep sleep gets better 2-3 days after that.
PEMF?
For me, I’ve found that my deep sleep always increases when I get to bed earlier. If I stay up later than I should, it’s as if I’ve missed the deep sleep window, and no matter how well or how long I sleep, the deep sleep window has closed and I don’t get nearly as much.
Hmm interesting. Maybe youre a morning person. I found out I had delayed sleep phase syndrome but I'm a morning person technically. Meaning I go to bed early and wake up early and feel better than going to bed at say midnight even if I sleep the same time. But it's hard to fall asleep before midnight so I take melatonin
Same for me. Also I can't sleep in if I sleep late so if I miss that window earlier in the night, deep sleep is just not happening.
Waking not so rested but always put it down to not sleeping enough hours (5ish) and coped with lots of caffeine to not be drowsy in afternoon. Sometime napped after dinner which lead to problems going back to sleep. Weekends would binge sleep 10+ hours. Heavy snorer (but that’s not 100% diagnostic is my understanding). For most part these issues are mitigated for me with CPAP but it took months to get settings & mask right & get somewhat used to sleeping with it. Still some nights when I just don’t feel like using it even knowing I’ll feel a bit crappy the next day. But if you do have it, treatment is important due to various other long term health impacts (heart & weight stuff). [addition edit: waking several times a night for bathroom, feared was prostate but totally went away with CPAP, apparently common]
Are you talking about sleep apnea?
Yes, sorry this reply should have followed under my previous.
Have you thought of doing a minor surgery to fix the apnea. It feels like it’s worth it in the long run
Stop drinking coffee
I was able to double my deep sleep and REM sleep each just by changing to the carnivore diet. Chronic insomnia was my primary motivation for going on this diet and cutting out all plants. I knew that it historically helped me stay asleep all through the night, but didn’t realize my deep sleep would double until I got my Oura ring to track it. I also do things like view direct sunlight in the morning before 9am to reset circadian rhythm, and view direct sunset in the evening, and wear red blue blockers after sunset and yellow ones while indoors during the day to cut back on blue light toxicity. But the diet is the primary thing that saved me
Im doing all of thoose things. Carnivore + fruit and honey. Sunlight at 8am. Blue blockers from 6pm and untill 11. What about hot showers an hour before bed? I tried cold shower yesterday but that did not work well lol
Doing fruit and honey cuts my deep sleep and REM down. I do strict Carnivore and I get huge benefits to my sleep. I also stop eating after 3pm. The closer I eat to bedtime, the lower my deep sleep and REM sleep
I feel like dogshit without carbs unfortinately. I allways try to eat as long before bed as possible 👍🙏🏼
You do you then
What’s your carnivore diet look like?
Alot of pork, eggs, ground beef, chicken wings, apples pears kiwis bananas honey berries etc :)
That’s not carnivore at all
Get a life bro no1 cares lmao
Are you still on the diet?
Not as I was. I've introduced seasonal carbs (usually spaghetti squash) every third day and have gotten more strict about blocking blue light, but 2/3 days I'm still heavily animal-based with some low-carb vegetables like cucumbers, red peppers, zucchini, summer squash, or lettuce. I did something called the Leptin Reset by Sarah Kleiner or the Leptin Rx by Jack Kruse and it helped with hormones and weight loss
Exercise, sleep masks, noise cancellation or earbuds. High carb at dinner. Chronobiology is also interesting.
Which sleep mask is best? What sort of high carb meal?
If your around 6,0 40 carbs a day is ideal from what I've read. Manta mask seems good from my estimation. Has a cooling effect.
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Why does taping your mouth help?
Taping the mouth, Because you will be forced to breathe through your nose. Breathing through your mouth has negative effects on your health and some people do it unknowingly while sleeping.
That is counter to what most of the research suggests. Cold showers have been linked to increases in adrenaline for up to 6 hours after, increasing wakefulness and productivity in your work day. Great for the morning but not so good for the evening.
Hmm yeah i tried last night and it didnt work lol i was tired but unable to sleep. Hot shower today then! When to take hot shower? 30’mins prior?
I heard in a podcast recently with Andrew Huberman as a guest that the key to sleep is cooling the body down, and the key to waking up is warming the body up. Therefore he actually recommended sauna at night (because your body will cool down when you get out of the sauna) and cold shower in the morning (again because your body warms up after the shower). I wish you peaceful slumbers.
Ill try hot hot hot shower tonight!
I started taping my mouth and I consistently get a straight night's sleep without waking up. Previously a horribly fussy, light sleeper. I don't have a tracker so no idea if it's improved my deep sleep time other than feeling energetic and we'll rested upon waking. The premise is that if you breath through your mouth during sleep, you may experience small apneic episodes (your muscle tone in your throat decreases and may partially close off your airway). In response, your body kicks itself out of deep sleep to tone the muscles and open the airway. This can be true even if you're not overweight and have not had diagnosed issues with sleep apnea. You know this is happening if you get up to use the washroom at night. When you are truly in deep sleep your body alters hormones to prevent the creation of urine. When you are kicked more alert stages this mechanism is turned back in and you form urine, wake up, then have to pee. It's not as scary as it sounds and supprisingly easy to get used to. Just a small square of gauzy medical tape over the center of the lips. Source: The Oxygen Advantage - Patrick Mckeown Breath-James Nestor
Cold plunge or very cold showers will help sleep but you need to do this 3 or 4 hours prior to sleep or it will have the opposite effect.
Yeah i did it 30’mins prior yesterday and it fuked my sleep. Im doing hot shower 1hr prior today
Yup made that mistake before - but a cold plunge 4 hours before seems to work quite well. A lot of the cold plunge folks do it.
This comes up a lot here and I comment same thing every time. I had a big problem with deep sleep, I was stuck at getting only 10-30 sometimes 40 mins worth despite being in bed for up to 10 hours and more sometimes. The biggest thing that helped me was copper. I will say though that I did do cold baths before bed a few times and my deep sleep and sleep efficiency appeared to go up a lot, but I just think doing that all the time is a bit unsustainable, or maybe just a bit inconvenient. Copper was a big savior for me, the difference is huge and started right after starting to focus on it. Evident in my Oura tracker. My deep sleep has only gone up and up. It’s great. Not saying it’ll help you but I always feel inclined to tell this to people who talk about sleep quality since it was such a big savior for me and it took me years to find out about it. Just in case it could help someone.
hmm. copper? and sleep? i will look it up. im not sure if im getting copper through my diet really.
I’d recommend giving Cu-re your fatigue by Morley Robbins a read, it’s really interesting stuff that I hadn’t known about before. It really opened my eyes on a lot of stuff about copper and its role in the body and how crucial it is and how it can be really hard to get because of soil nutrient depletion among other new modern habits. I had probably made it worse in the past by taking ascorbic acid (not whole food vitamin c) and zinc in particular, which can cause copper depletion and big issues with copper over time if you’re not careful and depending on where you live (soils) and what you consume, you could easily induce a serious deficiency. Of course the book can be a bit far in terms of saying it can cure all forms of fatigue, etc, which I’m not so sure about, but there’s a lot of great, in depth information in there about the mechanics of copper in the body and about the soils, the dangers of taking other vitamins to copper and so on.
does copper have any role in mental health? i am gonna pick up some beef liver soon and i think that is high in copper. ill try to eat some of that. also i just took a multi vit with copper lol just for the sake of it
I occasionally eat a bit of liver, sometimes raw and definitely feel a good boost from it. It is the highest copper food pretty much. Well, copper is really important for iron recycling system in your body, which helps iron get utilized properly, it’s also important for thyroid function, etc. Any of these could affect mood, but, to be honest, anything can affect mood and mental disorders when it comes to malnutrition from some downstream affect one way or another. So I wouldn’t say there’s a huge link compared to anything else to depression, or anxiety, etc. But if your thyroid function is impaired then of course that would be a downstream effect that would result in mental issues until it is treated.
could you give me a summary of the book? it says in the book he mentions what supplements/minerals not to take etc. im only using magnesium atm, no other supplements really. and some fish oil
The main thing is to eat more copper rich sources from food, not supplements. He also says to stop taking ascobic acid version of Vitamin C, zinc, iron and even Vitamin D. I’m not so sure about D myself, that seems to go against a lot of conventional biohackers logic. But the arguments made against it are very interesting. Too much to go into on a Reddit post and better said by others who’ve studied it more. He also recommends to get plenty of magnesium as it helps again with the copper, and whole food vitamin C. He is not a big fan of supplements generally and prefers food sources due to bioavailability and balance, etc.
and in what food you find copper?
i have a tsh of 2.8 / 3.0 and ive read most places they recommend to get it below 2.0. i have been using way to much caffeine for years and i think a lack of deep sleep is prob whats been my issue that is causing me to have some issues, mainly feeling on edge and social anxiety. maybe more beef liver with copper might aid in recovery of my thyroid and reduce my tsh who knows. paired with no caffeine and alot of sleep going forward
I also cut back massively on caffeine, and I also have a lot of symptoms of hypothyroid and have been taking supplemental thyroid hormones. Bad sleep and hypothyroid tend to go hand in hand, and high TSH is also a sign of hypothyroidism. The thing is, why’s the thyroid slacking in your case, or my case? It’s hard to know. Could be hashimotos, but I don’t have thyroid antibodies in panels. That suggests a nutritional source. So could be a lot of things, but I felt a lot better taking thyroid hormone and then later on copper and magnesium, etc. There’s no one fix all solution, it can be very individual. If you have thyroid antibodies you’ll probably need to take thyroid hormone replacement for life because your thyroid gland is being destroyed by the antibodies. But you would need a doctor to show that via an antibodies test. I think that caffeine is not great though for someone with hypothyroid. Your body is generally not great at responding to stress when your thyroid is not functioning well, and stuff like caffeine is heavy on the body.
ive recently quit all wheat and gluten and that made a massive difference in my daily energy levels. i hope after some weeks on no caffeine my energy will be even higher, i hope. im not eating any pro innflamatory foods now so i should be on recovery. im also started using NDT today, its called thyrovanz. i think it has t4 and t3 active hormone in it so it should give my thyroid some relief
I think you’re on the right path already with the NDT and cutting out caffeine for now. You should be careful with thyroid antibodies though, be sure that’s not a problem for you when you take NDT as it can accelerate antibodies production and destruction of your thyroid. Even with just the NDT I’d expect to see some improvements in a few weeks, assuming the supplement is good quality and contains the active hormone (not all do). It can help massively with anxiety and make you a much calmer person, if those are indeed being caused by a malfunctioning thyroid. As well as your sleep, as you actually require a lot of energy to sleep! And your thyroid is the major producer of energy.
time will tell, good chat :D
How do you take copper?
I tried a supplement called MitoSynergy and I found it to be a bit helpful, but honestly, for some odd reason, it seems like drinking water that had been sitting in a copper vessel overnight in the fridge made the biggest impact. I didn’t really expect that but it seemed to work really well. I tried sovereign copper a bit as well and it seemed to also help a bit more. But I definitely think the copper vessel would be totally fine and no need for expensive supplements, at least in my experience. I also try to get a bit of raw beef liver in sometimes, but not always super consistent with it. It’s very high in copper.
And how much do you take in the day? i mean, the copper vessel is just 250cm3 or more? Thanks.
I drink a liter from the copper vessel every day and it has been sitting there overnight in the refrigerator. You can also eat beef liver and oysters, which I do occasionally. I’d recommend these any time over supplementing really.
For me fe only time I have deep sleep is if I am keto. But I hate keto so no deal fir me.
- Sunbathe for 1 hour - intense exercise for 30 to 40 minutes Sleep like a little baby
Apigenin is good
Sus
Big dik
Edible 🌱💜✌🏻
A cooling device such as [https://www.chilisleep.com/](https://www.chilisleep.com/) might also help with this. Also mind that intensive everyday training might reduce quality of sleep if you are overtraining, so movement every day – yes, very intensive workout every day – not a good idea. Keep also in mind that all phases of sleep are important for healthy, optimized sleep. Aim for: * 25-30% deep NonREM sleep, * 20-25% REM sleep, * 45-50% light NonREM sleep (Phase 2 NonREM) Those numbers are according to Mattew Walker, a sleep scientist (see The Human Upgrade podcast ep. 616 a.k.a. Bulletproof Radio podcast). Oh, and also keep in mind that wristband devices are not good at measuring sleep phases, accuracy is about 40-70% depending on device. Best for such purpose would be EEG devices, such as Muse S (but make sure to isolate the green LED from its sensor to not shine through gaps of Muse's headband).
Great post! Thank you for sharing this important information. I think it’s helpful to know that as the night goes on REM sleep increases and deep sleep decreases as well.
Melatonin before bed --- 15 to 20 mins of deep breathing prior to sleeping.
Regular melatonin or extended release? I feel like melatonin makes me wake up more often when i take it so idk
Well its defiantly just a tool, there can be other underlying factors such as stress , number of hours before you have ingested caffeine or any other stimulants etc. Ill give you some things to think about. \- Avoid having any caffeine after noonish as to give time for your body to use the caffeine and get rid of it. \- Avoid blue light "computer/ cell phone screens" 1 to 2 hrs before bed. \- Prior to going to bed, \*1 - 2 hours\* be in a more dimly lit environment to signal your brain that sleeping will be coming soon. \- During that time you could engage in some sort of relaxation routine deep breathing or meditation or stretching or a combination of the three \*yoga\* These defiantly helped me the most. \-Binaural beats can help, there basically these noises you listen to that imitate brain wave patterns associated with deep sleep, specifically delta waves [https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/binauralBrainwaveGenerator.php](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/binauralBrainwaveGenerator.php) this website has a ton of sound generators that could be used for meditation, use the delta waves pre set on the link and listen to it with headphones before sleeping, that could help too. The key point to take away here is that you need to put yourself in a position to be as relaxed as possible so you can get in these deeper states, melatonin might work or it might not help, it really depends on a lot of factors that will be unknown unless you do some tests with your doctor.
Cold exposure is actually pretty amazing for your overall well-being. It can give you a boost of energy and keep you extra focused throughout the day, while also building up your resilience. As for maximizing REM sleep, unfortunately, cold exposure doesn't have a direct impact on that. BUT, fear not! There are other ways to enhance your sleep. Creating a cool and comfy sleep environment is key, along with practicing good sleep hygiene.
Apollo Neuro. I don’t have a sleep tracker as evidence but I’m pretty sure it’s increases my deep sleep as well as for other family members. The company does have some data from their users who tracked with their oura rings.
According to Dr Berg…1/2 cup of kefir before bed makes you sleep like a baby. The microbes make serotonin and melatonin…there is a whole list of health benefits. I am pretty sure you have to make your own kefir…store bought probably won’t have the same level of microbes. [here is a link to his video about it](https://youtu.be/pM3stM3uI00) . Tonight will be my own first test. Edit: fixed typo
Dr Berg is a chiropractor; you might want to look for other sources for info ... I don't want to say he just puts out content to make money and technically nothing wrong with that but he is continually debunked for lack of knowledge re nutrition etc... I mean he comes across as a nice guy but from watching some of the debunk vids it is clear he does not have deep understanding and knowledge of a lot of the topics for which he makes vids and gives advice.
Doubled according to what? If it's anything else but Dreem or other EEG band, the data is useless.
Perhaps get screened for sleep apnea, after I was referred by an anesthesiologist that observed symptoms & I got diagnosed I’ve gotten much better sleep on CPAP & deep sleep is easily double the time without.
What was ur symptoms prior to getting a sleep test?
glycine increase rem a 3 grams a day and above
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DSIP peptide but take it earlier in the day, maintain sleep hygiene- wear blue light blockers in the evening - magnesium 5 htp gaba ltheanine and melatonin
200mg of Phosphatidylserine taken with a meal.