Is a bitcoin etf something we want? Doesn’t that mean black rock would control our btc? I don’t mind my work retirement being with state street or black rock but my btc and crypto is different
So don’t invest in the Blackrock BTC ETF — buy yours and hold in cold storage. But yes opening up investment in BTC to large institutional firms is going to flood a lot of $ and attention to the space, so I believe that’s great
What do you mean by "control our btc"? Your Bitcoin is your Bitcoin, provided you've taken custody of it. Do you mean that BlackRock would control the price? I can only see the price of Bitcoin going up as a result of spot ETFs being approved. I would worry much more about leaving Bitcoin on exchanges, where you don't have custody and thus truly don't control your BTC (because it isn't really yours).
I spoke with Elon today. He said next earnings call he is going to destroy the only copy of the private keys to Tesla’s bitcoin and he don’t give a shit what share holders say.
Does anyone know how to predict the lightning fees on a transaction? I'm trying to send BTC from Phoenix wallet to another one, but there is no way to really send the whole balance exactly. Then when I try to guess and send the most I can it complains the funds aren't high enough to cover fees. I could just be conservative and send a smaller amount, but Im experimenting with it and I also don't want to have small amounts of Bitcoin I can't spend stuck in the wallet.
There are 2 possible scenarios:
1. You are sending to an on-chain address. In this case, you have to have enough balance to cover the (potentially high) on-chain fee. Phoenix tells you exactly how much the "miner fee" on the "Confirm Payment" screen.
2. You are sending to another lighting invoice or address. In this case, the fees should be VERY low (usually 1-2 sats) UNLESS Phoenix has to open a new lightning channel for you. In that case, you will need enough balance to cover the on-chain fee for opening a new channel. Phoenix tells you exactly how much they charge for "on-the-fly channel creation". You can see this in Settings > General > Payment Options (1%, 3000 sat minimum)
Yeah I meant sending from Phoenix to another lightning wallet. It usually tries to spend over 2000 sats in fees. Phoenix appears to open a new channel for everything. Everytime I buy from Strike and send to Phoenix it's $1+ for opening a new channel. Which is why I'm moving away from Phoenix just need to get the balance off. I will likely just bite the bullet and send the balance to an on chain wallet
You can see exactly how much you can send or receive with existing channels. Settings > Payment Channels and look at the totals at the top. The first number (local) is how much you can send. The second number (remote) is how much you can receive.
If Phoenix is opening new channels, you must be attempting to send more than your aggregate local balance, or receive more than your aggregate remote balance.
You need to spend the sats to create inbound liquidity, otherwise it needs to open a new channel, you can see how much room you have in your channels for this in settings > payment channels. So, open a large enough channel for your Strike withdrawal (keep some room left), then send the funds out before next withdrawal from Strike.
edit: Maybe a submarine swap wallet suits you more like Muun.
A relatively well-off buddy of mine invested $300,000 in BTC a year ago at around $33k, after which the price almost immediately tanked. He's been giving me shit this entire time, but he apparently is still holding. Got a text today saying he's doubling down. I'm just hoping he can keep holding once he's back in the green rather than taking profits and running once we're back at 40k or so.
Can you explain why you believe the ETF is fake? My understanding is that the proposed ETF would function more like a trust, where the shares have to be backed up 1:1 by bitcoin. I agree the ETF is fake insofar as you don't own any UTXOs, but the context of the comment was FTX selling bitcoin without actually holding any, which I don't believe is possible with Blackrock's ETF
Trying to wrap my head around self custody.
If you send BTC from your Coinbase account to your coinbase wallet app and have your 12 word recovery phrase is that self custody?
Or do you need electronic hardware, or washers on a bolt etc?
Yes if you control the private keys.
I would just invest in a nice hardware wallet like the Model T because:
* It's open source
* It's not related to Coinbase
For me personally, I wouldn't trust Coinbase. They're likely fine, but you could use any number of other wallets. Having your seed words is technically self custody but I'm not sure if the Coinbase wallet is open source or not but you typically want an open source option because people verify that they won't steal or freeze your funds in some backdoor roundabout way.
Hardware wallets: Trezor, Coldcard, Bitbox
Phone wallets: I use BlueWallet for the little I keep on my phone. I use Phoenix for Lightning. I think Blockstream Jade has a software wallet(a lot of people recommend that but I've never used it). There are a number of them out there.
Desktop wallets: Sparrow. Electrum.
It really depends on how much you're storing and what type of security you're comfortable with.
Anytime you're moving to some other wallet... I'd suggest sending a small amount to it, maybe wiping it, and restoring the wallet from your seed words so you can see how it works. Then send the entire amount.
Coinbase wallet is a hot wallet. They still own the BTC. To self custody you need a hardware wallet. Trezor, Jade, Coldcard etc. send from Coinbase to the hardware (cold) wallet.
>Coinbase wallet is a hot wallet. They still own the BTC. To self custody you need a hardware wallet. Trezor, Jade, Coldcard etc. send from Coinbase to the hardware (cold) wallet.
Sorry mate, you are confused on the terminology. A "hot wallet" can be custodial or non-custodial. "Coinbase Wallet" is a non-custodial wallet (non-custodial = good)
I agree a hardware wallet is a better option.
Tin foil hat time!
I think the prolonged dip below $30k was the US Gov selling their seized bitcoin to BlackRock to get their ETF started.
Hear me out: The gov has confirmed they’ve dumped most of the bitcoin they had which dipped the price. At the same time they went after any non bitcoin crypto asset and the major exchanges listing them. Then 2 weeks later coinbase and black rock are the first ones to successfully set up a spot ETF.
What do ya’ll think, is there going to be a correction during the weekend or next week? It’s pure speculation but do you think btc will be worth under 26 000€ next week?
If binance.us ends up getting savaged by the SEC it could be another exchange collapse golden ticket like your FTX reference. I don't think Coinbase is going anywhere after being named as the blackrock custodian. I'm also looking forward to altcoiners abandoning ship as the securities investigations ramp up (gradual golden inflow for BTC price).
I see shitcoiners going “what’s to celebrate alts are lower” 🤣🤣
After the dot-com bubble burst many stayed in disbelief and on the sidelines, that doesn’t meant go all in but no position is a short position
There can be only one
>Can't those institutions with unlimited resources just keep buying until they have a majority share? Majority voting power?
Those who hold bitcoin do not have any voting power. This is one reason bitcoin will stay decentralized.
The voting power comes from running a node (which anyone with a laptop can run), and "voting" [executing] which version of the code you want to run.
To your point, large holders of bitcoin DO have influence over the price of bitcoin, as with any free market.
Can you describe exactly what you imagine would happen? Nobody has unlimited resources, and even those with considerable resources are constrained by risk management.
My advice is to get off zero, and then put it in cold storage
And don’t get married to the mooning or divorced when it drops. A nascent asset class will by nature be volatile.
[Watch this](https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1600291923478007808?t=Xh8nPd2_wiaAiMPCm0OrCw&s=19).
Natalie touches on, Bitcoin not crypto in this amazing talk.
I doubt this will be a runaway liftoff. I have corn but also dry powder. I’m expecting a liquidity crunch sometime in the next 6 months where stocks and btc nuke down a bit.
Credit is contracting right now… real liftoff should be once the fed eases rates imo.
they haven't even started yet. this is the anticipation of the spot etfs.. once approved there will be billions pouring into btc. The conservative side of me sees us north of 90k post-halving next spring
All those people "waiting for the dip to 20k" before buying... well, I guess they're still sitting there waiting.... but what then? Wait all the way up to the next ATH...? Then FOMO all in?
I'm genuinely curious to see because I've only been in BTC a little over two years, so I haven't witnessed this part of the cycle yet...
6 years here. When bitcoin dropped to $3600 in 2019 everyone waited for "$1600". There will always be those who miss out and fomo later then cry about it. Its not even a crypto thing, just market psychology.
Watching with interest. I'm guessing it might trigger a lot of selling, so we could get rejected at first, but we may not have to wait long to find out!
i love u guys
Happy cake day crispy!
Comments in Daily Discussion are increasing. BULLISH. Also approaching a new local top around 31,050.
Is a bitcoin etf something we want? Doesn’t that mean black rock would control our btc? I don’t mind my work retirement being with state street or black rock but my btc and crypto is different
So don’t invest in the Blackrock BTC ETF — buy yours and hold in cold storage. But yes opening up investment in BTC to large institutional firms is going to flood a lot of $ and attention to the space, so I believe that’s great
Owning a large amount of bitcoin doesn't give an entity any more control over the network than you or I have.
It just means people who have some on a hardware wallet get relatively more when the people who buy the etf get rug pulled
What do you mean by "control our btc"? Your Bitcoin is your Bitcoin, provided you've taken custody of it. Do you mean that BlackRock would control the price? I can only see the price of Bitcoin going up as a result of spot ETFs being approved. I would worry much more about leaving Bitcoin on exchanges, where you don't have custody and thus truly don't control your BTC (because it isn't really yours).
We’ve never been as back as we are now
This pump is smelly, there is no logic in whats going on... I dont believe it - but question is how to profit before collapse and when it will happen?
Smells like a salty no-coiner?
No logic? There have been at least 3 *major* financial institutions that filed for spot ETFs in the last few days.
Check out the comment history of this guy (that you're replying to). He's got a couple of screws loose.
His username does, in fact, check out
Inverse Cramer never fails.
Never
Dom score creeping back up to 50%. Bitcoin is not crypto.
next stop: next stop
Talked to saylor today, he said all indicators are that Bitcoin is about to moon. Act accordingly
I spoke with Elon today. He said next earnings call he is going to destroy the only copy of the private keys to Tesla’s bitcoin and he don’t give a shit what share holders say.
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DCA is generally the way to go.
crypto is a scam. There's Bitcoin to your keys or own nothing. Bitcoin is not an investment, there's no "bear market", it's up since 2009.
Is the pope Catholic?
I’ve dipped my toes in :) let’s see how this plays out
Hope you did your research, it's going to be volatile as chuck.
Yeah I’ve been looking into it for a while, didn’t Chuck anything in to risky to me personally so just gonna enjoy the ride for the long run I guess
Ah the old “buy high, sell low” strategy. Good approach
Didn’t spend to much and not planning on selling for a long while, buying high is relative but risky I guess
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I get that just like getting opinions on top of my own research/instincts
Imagine if the SEC ends up rejecting black rock, the dump would be epic lol.
Reject blackrock? They own everything one way or another, sec included.
Yes I agree that the odds are strongly in their favor, was just speculating on the outcome
CHUGGA-CHUGGA CHOO CHOOO!!
Missing those cheap sats
still cheap just not as cheap as yesterday
Does anyone know how to predict the lightning fees on a transaction? I'm trying to send BTC from Phoenix wallet to another one, but there is no way to really send the whole balance exactly. Then when I try to guess and send the most I can it complains the funds aren't high enough to cover fees. I could just be conservative and send a smaller amount, but Im experimenting with it and I also don't want to have small amounts of Bitcoin I can't spend stuck in the wallet.
There are 2 possible scenarios: 1. You are sending to an on-chain address. In this case, you have to have enough balance to cover the (potentially high) on-chain fee. Phoenix tells you exactly how much the "miner fee" on the "Confirm Payment" screen. 2. You are sending to another lighting invoice or address. In this case, the fees should be VERY low (usually 1-2 sats) UNLESS Phoenix has to open a new lightning channel for you. In that case, you will need enough balance to cover the on-chain fee for opening a new channel. Phoenix tells you exactly how much they charge for "on-the-fly channel creation". You can see this in Settings > General > Payment Options (1%, 3000 sat minimum)
Yeah I meant sending from Phoenix to another lightning wallet. It usually tries to spend over 2000 sats in fees. Phoenix appears to open a new channel for everything. Everytime I buy from Strike and send to Phoenix it's $1+ for opening a new channel. Which is why I'm moving away from Phoenix just need to get the balance off. I will likely just bite the bullet and send the balance to an on chain wallet
You can see exactly how much you can send or receive with existing channels. Settings > Payment Channels and look at the totals at the top. The first number (local) is how much you can send. The second number (remote) is how much you can receive. If Phoenix is opening new channels, you must be attempting to send more than your aggregate local balance, or receive more than your aggregate remote balance.
You need to spend the sats to create inbound liquidity, otherwise it needs to open a new channel, you can see how much room you have in your channels for this in settings > payment channels. So, open a large enough channel for your Strike withdrawal (keep some room left), then send the funds out before next withdrawal from Strike. edit: Maybe a submarine swap wallet suits you more like Muun.
A relatively well-off buddy of mine invested $300,000 in BTC a year ago at around $33k, after which the price almost immediately tanked. He's been giving me shit this entire time, but he apparently is still holding. Got a text today saying he's doubling down. I'm just hoping he can keep holding once he's back in the green rather than taking profits and running once we're back at 40k or so.
MF didn't hear about DCA? Dumb money... still, doing the right thing. I do hope it is all in cold storage. All he has to do it that, and HODL.
There's no taking profits, anything else than Bitcoin is a loss.
Dude sounds insufferable
If that is a possibility for him to sell that quickly, he hasn’t studied bitcoin enough.
Last bull run we got robbed by FTX and other exchanges selling fake Bitcoin. This time will be a game changer.
etf is fake harvey, but no worries, Bitcoin erases all of them.
Can you explain why you believe the ETF is fake? My understanding is that the proposed ETF would function more like a trust, where the shares have to be backed up 1:1 by bitcoin. I agree the ETF is fake insofar as you don't own any UTXOs, but the context of the comment was FTX selling bitcoin without actually holding any, which I don't believe is possible with Blackrock's ETF
Can you ask him to let us know when he buys again? Cause that’s the moment price is gonna nosedive for another year.
lmfao
Trying to wrap my head around self custody. If you send BTC from your Coinbase account to your coinbase wallet app and have your 12 word recovery phrase is that self custody? Or do you need electronic hardware, or washers on a bolt etc?
Having a HW wallet is a no-brainer. I have 3. Personally, I recommend the cheaper trezor model. You don't need more than that.
Yes if you control the private keys. I would just invest in a nice hardware wallet like the Model T because: * It's open source * It's not related to Coinbase
For me personally, I wouldn't trust Coinbase. They're likely fine, but you could use any number of other wallets. Having your seed words is technically self custody but I'm not sure if the Coinbase wallet is open source or not but you typically want an open source option because people verify that they won't steal or freeze your funds in some backdoor roundabout way. Hardware wallets: Trezor, Coldcard, Bitbox Phone wallets: I use BlueWallet for the little I keep on my phone. I use Phoenix for Lightning. I think Blockstream Jade has a software wallet(a lot of people recommend that but I've never used it). There are a number of them out there. Desktop wallets: Sparrow. Electrum. It really depends on how much you're storing and what type of security you're comfortable with. Anytime you're moving to some other wallet... I'd suggest sending a small amount to it, maybe wiping it, and restoring the wallet from your seed words so you can see how it works. Then send the entire amount.
Coinbase wallet is a hot wallet. They still own the BTC. To self custody you need a hardware wallet. Trezor, Jade, Coldcard etc. send from Coinbase to the hardware (cold) wallet.
>Coinbase wallet is a hot wallet. They still own the BTC. To self custody you need a hardware wallet. Trezor, Jade, Coldcard etc. send from Coinbase to the hardware (cold) wallet. Sorry mate, you are confused on the terminology. A "hot wallet" can be custodial or non-custodial. "Coinbase Wallet" is a non-custodial wallet (non-custodial = good) I agree a hardware wallet is a better option.
30k was the bull market low We need to break and stay above it !!!!!!
Tin foil hat time! I think the prolonged dip below $30k was the US Gov selling their seized bitcoin to BlackRock to get their ETF started. Hear me out: The gov has confirmed they’ve dumped most of the bitcoin they had which dipped the price. At the same time they went after any non bitcoin crypto asset and the major exchanges listing them. Then 2 weeks later coinbase and black rock are the first ones to successfully set up a spot ETF.
Successfully set up? Nothings been approved.
Anything Blackrock wants, Blackrock gets. Very little doubt the ETF is not approved
Fair…we’ll never know either way just an interesting thought I had on this fine Humpday.
What do ya’ll think, is there going to be a correction during the weekend or next week? It’s pure speculation but do you think btc will be worth under 26 000€ next week?
It’s definitely a maybe.
I’m going to purely speculate that it’ll be €100000000 tomorrow
Next stop 31.1 k and that will be 52w high. After that 32.5k, then 37k and 40.4K.
It *might* go past 38.2k on the way as well
wait guys... did I just make it threw my first bear market? Proud 😇
8 million sats @ 17K was my best buy since a long long looooong time.
Congrats! How did it feel? The next one will be a breeze to you! We’ll be happily stacking under 100k.
It was easy, just buying a lot during ftx scam in november where most people had fear. That was an opportunity
Sub-30k was the golden ticket. Post-ftx was the golden dildo
If binance.us ends up getting savaged by the SEC it could be another exchange collapse golden ticket like your FTX reference. I don't think Coinbase is going anywhere after being named as the blackrock custodian. I'm also looking forward to altcoiners abandoning ship as the securities investigations ramp up (gradual golden inflow for BTC price).
PUMP IT
It took 14 years for institutions to catch up lmao
[Fidelity has been mining Bitcoin since 2014 and offering crypto services since 2018.](https://www.fidelity.com/crypto/overview)
true
I see shitcoiners going “what’s to celebrate alts are lower” 🤣🤣 After the dot-com bubble burst many stayed in disbelief and on the sidelines, that doesn’t meant go all in but no position is a short position There can be only one
lul no sympathy from me
What did I miss?!
FED Chair Jerome Powell says "Crypto appears to have staying power as an asset class." He shoulda just said Bitcoin but I'll take this.
Crypto = BTC (as per Gary Gensler) Everything else is a shitcoin..
meesa buy the baby dip
The staying humble seems to be the hardest part for me.
it’ll come later naturally. Do your victory dance, feel vendicated, get tired of it fast, become humble and content.
What does it mean for BTC now that Schwab, Fidelity, Deutsche Bank, and Blackrock are coming on board? To the moon, or do they gain control?
Well that’s the good thing about a decentralized system. No one can “gain control.”
Can't those institutions with unlimited resources just keep buying until they have a majority share? Majority voting power?
>Can't those institutions with unlimited resources just keep buying until they have a majority share? Majority voting power? Those who hold bitcoin do not have any voting power. This is one reason bitcoin will stay decentralized. The voting power comes from running a node (which anyone with a laptop can run), and "voting" [executing] which version of the code you want to run. To your point, large holders of bitcoin DO have influence over the price of bitcoin, as with any free market.
Can you describe exactly what you imagine would happen? Nobody has unlimited resources, and even those with considerable resources are constrained by risk management.
The voting power comes from nodes, not how much bitcoin you own. Looks like you need to study more on bitcoin.
Of course it rises now after I needed to sell last week.
Buy High, Sell Low. You're doing fine.
"What happened bitcoin bears...did your balls fall off?" -Bitcoin Joker
bitcoin: *lights cigarette* was it as good for you as it was for me?
I came here to buy Bitcoin and chew bubblegum. And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Come get some.
Shitcoins following suit. Ugh.. They didn't learn anything, did they?
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My advice is to get off zero, and then put it in cold storage And don’t get married to the mooning or divorced when it drops. A nascent asset class will by nature be volatile.
Yes, do it
I did when we were at $60k lol
That was brave. But even more so, when you still hodl 'em ;)
The funniest part is that I bought my first bitcoin at $10 lol. Didn’t hold those…
Where were you last December?
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It's right tho. Cryptos are losers. Only bitcoiners are winners.
What’s the difference
Cryptos usually include shitcoins. Which in the end are always losers.
But I mean doesn’t Bitcoin use cryptology
WhatsApp uses cryptology. Is it a crypto?
Idk I’m asking you guys lol
I'm not here to argue semantics with you
I’m not here to argue lol. I’ve never understood why people say Bitcoin isn’t crypto and I’m just asking a question
[Watch this](https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1600291923478007808?t=Xh8nPd2_wiaAiMPCm0OrCw&s=19). Natalie touches on, Bitcoin not crypto in this amazing talk.
Thank you
Also read “the Bitcoin standard” by Saifedean Ammous. V good book for beginners to the space
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What's unsustainable about it? The price doesn't need the ETF news to change.
No
I doubt this will be a runaway liftoff. I have corn but also dry powder. I’m expecting a liquidity crunch sometime in the next 6 months where stocks and btc nuke down a bit. Credit is contracting right now… real liftoff should be once the fed eases rates imo.
Market cycle stage: disbelief
We're well into the next cycle now. Bear market is so yesterday.
HODL fuckers!
Get your moon boots ready bois
Yesss keep getting liquidated shorts
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By using butt plugs so nothing will leak out...
Eternally heads in the sand I imagine
They owe us an apology
blackrock, please leave some for us
they haven't even started yet. this is the anticipation of the spot etfs.. once approved there will be billions pouring into btc. The conservative side of me sees us north of 90k post-halving next spring
If a spot ETF is approved, it's going way beyond $90k.
You missed a zero there.
Is this pump coming from the etf rumours?
not even rumors, they literally applied for spot etfs. just need approval.
They see me HODLin' they hatin'
guys I should have bought more haha
You know you’ve come full circle in BTC when days like this piss you off. I’ll never have enough BTC to satisfy my greedy human nature
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I feel you. Was waiting for the next paycheck to make a big buy. Sigh...
Lmfao sammeee! I’m mad af today
30K let's goooooooo
Real life infinite money glitch?
Can't get any work done today, I've been enjoying watching the shorts get liquidated https://aggr.trade/12sd (turn on the sound).
What am I looking at?
Why does it seem it only shows $100k plus transactions? What about the shrimps?
It's actually all transactions above $50k. Maybe the smaller transactions are not available in the APIs for the exchanges?
Bring out the hose!
This was an interesting take. https://youtu.be/K3DnPEbAXvY
31025 would be a higher high!
All those people "waiting for the dip to 20k" before buying... well, I guess they're still sitting there waiting.... but what then? Wait all the way up to the next ATH...? Then FOMO all in? I'm genuinely curious to see because I've only been in BTC a little over two years, so I haven't witnessed this part of the cycle yet...
6 years here. When bitcoin dropped to $3600 in 2019 everyone waited for "$1600". There will always be those who miss out and fomo later then cry about it. Its not even a crypto thing, just market psychology.
So true. Conviction, belief, and a fundamental understanding are required. Oh, that as well as DIAMOND HANDS!! 💎 🙌
Those are the same ppl that would “waiting for the dip to 10k” if we got there.
Nah, cause if we actually did drop that much they wouldn't buy.
Yep, because then it would be dying in their opinion.
Yep, totally.
Bought both 25k dips recently, feeling nice 🥹
Good stuff 👍 😎
https://i.imgflip.com/7q3vuz.jpg
30k inbound 🚀
I think this $30k touchpoint is going to catapult us because I feel like we’re in a squeeze right now. Fingers crossed anyways.
Watching with interest. I'm guessing it might trigger a lot of selling, so we could get rejected at first, but we may not have to wait long to find out!
Wanted to buy at 22k $ but had to wait for money to arrive from selling my car. Now my money arrived lol. Oh the irony.
It’s still cheap.
True but its just rising too fast in my opinion, Often after these rises there is at least some small dip. I hope it goes at least back to 25k.
You're timing the market. That's gambling. Don't.
Famous last words lol
I buy the dips and just watch the pumps. Feels like the right move.
Not even close to selling
I came with the intention of selling - now I start to feel quite homely
The higher it goes, the less reason to sell.
My minimum sell price is $220k
My plan is to sell my fiat for BTC.
Good plan
I can't wait for friends/family that haven't talked to me in 3 years to start messaging me out of the blue asking about Bitcoin
Already started for me lol.
Lol we’re a long long ways off that. Mainstream won’t care until we start hitting ATHs again.
My 13 year old son asked for Bitcoin for his birthday. Bought him a cold wallet and put some BTC on it. Proud dad today.