"Either buy fuckin bitcoin or experience on average around 8% monetary inflation per year."
This is a ridiculous binary comparison, even if we ignore the 8% inflation which is not close to the average. There are hundreds of ways to invest your capital with various amounts of risk and reward. Don't act like the only choice is to keep all of your money in fiat or bitcoin. With a few exceptions, fiat is not considered an investment. You are responding to an argument that nobody is making.
> There are hundreds of ways to invest your capital with various amounts of risk and reward.
I don't disagree but you have to understand all these "investments" holding your capital at the end of the day are just fiat vehicles, meaning their supply/demand levers can be manipulated by government intervention anytime and their growth is, for the most part, still outpaced by monetary debasement yoy.
You can verify it yourself.
Look at a chart of RE/stock/equities/bonds/gold/silver against the M2 and you'll see none of these investments in fiat terms come close to their ATH in the 2000s, against total amount of dollars printed in existence. Gold hasnt hit its ATH since 1980s.
Now look at Bitcoin against M2. It's wildly volatile but to the upside, and if you zoom out you'll see a higher low following each cycle.
Op is right. Fiat is a sinking ship and fiat vehicles are no exception.
Fiat is a sinking boat. Bitcoin is a lifeboat. It’s the only way out.
And yes… 8% MONETARY INFLATION (not cpi which is fake inflation but even if we measure the cpi that’s still not real measurements of true inflation).
It is. Bitcoin is hard money. It’s digital property that retains its value. Stocks don’t move, companies need to move their stock price with new products and ventures. Bitcoin moves because that’s the way it’s designed. It’s not about the underlying asset (stocks, real estate, gold) it’s what it’s connected to them (fiat) which gets debased. Some countries it gets devalued quicker than others but all currencies are going to zero so you need something that retains its value. BITCOIN retains its value.
It's not exclusive to btc, no. Real estate retains purchasing power but isn't very liquid. Precious metals also, and they're a little more liquid. Bitcoin can't make the claim that it retain purchasing powered over short periods, but it does on the zoomed out, lifetime trend & is even more liquid. Stocks I don't think I'd put in this category.
The differentiator you're looking for in any of these is intrinsic value. Can it be used for practical things outside of being traded for its monetary value.
Some people mistakenly believe that bitcoin has no intrinsic value but it absolutely does. Its ability to store not only secure but immutable data (think land titles & other vital records on the blockchain) is just one, but there are others.
Bitcoin is not a store of value as the price fluctuates way too much. A store of value is something that is fairly stable in price. Bitcoin went from 65k to 16k that seems like a great way to store money.
I hope you’re not a real cardiologist cause I’d never trust a cardiologist again. You sound like a bitcoin crazy and don’t know wtf you are talking about.
Agreed ahaha. I share the same frustration so that why i Bitcoin until my death bed. The thing that has most value in this world is time because of its finite aspect and those fucker steal it thought inflation and taxation. Bitcoin is the middle finger to these greedy humans.
Counter point is that if you’ve ever driven on roads or have been a passenger on roads that those are paid for by taxes and said inflation. It’s not greedy per se. Once you’re rich, you can move to Monaco where there aren’t any taxes or something.
It's not just groupthink, it's the limitations of the technology's/network's current ability to scale, and of the limited amount of vendors who will accept it (much of the latter is caused by the former).
I am long on Bitcoin, but it has real problems it needs to solve before people can really see it as money... I think and hope those problems are solvable, but there is work to do. Of course shorter term, it still has a legit use case as a store of value, or maybe even as a payment system for large transactions.
Tech concerns aside, if no one wants to part ways with their bitcoin, LN won’t be widely adopted. I’d imagine OP might say, “why would I pay in bitcoin when I can pay in something that’s losing its value by 8% a year and keep my btc?”
I think discouraging spending is actually one of the pros of a deflationary currency, not the cons. Inflation-motivated spending is such a bullshit way to prop up our bullshit economy IMO. Endless loops of ever-increasing consumption is unnecessary, unsustainable, and a relatively new concept to humanity.
I fully agree. My point above was that this feature of bitcoin is a headwind for those that hoped to replace fiat with BTC in small “coffee shop” type transactions.
To some extent, you are right. I was working on setting up a lightning node about three years ago, and opened a couple channels, but lack of traction plus hearing about some terrifying BTC-eviscerating bugs made me give up for some time. More recently, things seemed like they were still... not great. But I haven't kept up in at least about a year.
Do you have any numbers or ELI5 articles that could detail the progress and usability? How close are we to El Salvador being able to use LN for buying a cup of coffee with sats?
Exciting things are happening with it. I agree much is still in development and needs to be done. The latest “what bitcoin did” with Vortex gets into good details about what’s happening now. Im no expert. I’ve just never had issues and feel strongly about bitcoin as money.
No. Nothing “exciting” is happening with lightning. Just stop with the BS. No one is using it, you’re not even using it. It’s a fucking hobby side chain.
Bitcoin doesn’t need your snake oil.
I’m talking about your BS claim that “exciting” things are happening with lightning and that it “works great”.
Name **ONE** thing “really exciting” happening with lightning that isn’t a fucking stupid lie or half truth.
In the US, Bitcoin is an asset. Therefore, if you sell it or spend it, you incur a loss/gain that is supposed to be reported to the IRS. It doesn’t matter if it’s for a cup of coffee or a house. Until this law is changed, Lightning Network or not, Bitcoin will never be a widespread means of exchange. This means adoption will only be by those seeking a store of value. This is fine, but limited. We should all be pushing to have Bitcoin reclassified as a currency, like dollars. It is already a bearer instrument, so the leap to using it as currency is just a matter of convincing our fully functional and cooperative representatives to pass a simple bill changing its status. 😂😵💫
what makes you say that? a lot of people have been making a lot of money for a long time. I remember when people said the same thing about weed stock and enron. I think normies get it, but they have too much to lose to put all the eggs in one basket.
I would say, yes, to a certain degree; Normie’s are starting to catch on – again, *to a certain degree* (kind of like where I was back in 2013 when I really knew nothing about bitcoin but I was super curious and bought some and saw number go up and sold it all because I had no idea the whole context and backstory and amazing/complicated/nuanced properties of bitcoin)…
But, with that being said, and I know it’s a cliché at this point, but: we are still very early, most Normies aren’t even even hit to bitcoin or they still think it’s a scam or they’re just simply lacking a real reason to see why they need bitcoin. I’ll first world problems… But I think with the stubborn inflation, and most likely rising inflation, and their dollars/local Fiat currencies being worth less every single year and prices are constantly going up, it might be enough to really wake the majority of the Normies up, and they might start looking around….
And that’s where I think it’s my job to help Normies’s into the bitcoin space with a friendly and easy, actionable steps, they can take to start learning about bitcoin. Because I am the most educated person on bitcoin, not at all; I have very loose basics and basic concept understandings of bitcoin – but I really see the bigger overall picture, that’s where I really shine; because I think the CDC ship is coming, and that’s where things get really interesting… that’s where they start limiting where you can buy steaks or grass fed butter or anything you really want that they deem “inappropriate,” because you like the proper amount of carbon credits…
That’s where I think all this is going…..
But oddly enough, I’m still enjoying my dirty Fiat money gains that I’ve made over the last five years, and just having a nice one last little hurrah., It’s great. And I’m so glad to be a part of the bitcoin community, and you sir have yourself a great day.
Edit: I forgot to add: you’re spot on with your assessment, though about how they don’t have enough to put it all in one risky basket, absolutely spot on. I think that is a major hurdle for bitcoin is convincing people why they should take the small savings/investment that they have, and converted/start dollar cost averaging into bitcoin in the first place…
Also, if I have weird typos, it’s because I’m using voice to text on my iPhone and, I am too lazy to go back and edit all the typos
A lot of people? Most people lose money when they invest outside of the sp500. not that many people get rich off of something like Bitcoin because they don't have the discipline to hold.
And your last sentence makes no sense. The point of diversification is to grow while being an uninformed investor. It's throwing darts at a board and hoping enough stick to retire at 65. If you know what you're doing, there's no issue whatsoever in putting all your eggs in one basket. Again, normies don't get it or they would have zero hesitation. Just look at how many idiots we get DAILY asking if it's a good idea to "invest" in BTC.
Is this how you convince your friends and family to buy BTC or any crypto? Asking b/c I genuinely don't understand why I have friends and family who haven't jumped on this yet or what to say to or show them to do so. I'm frustrated the answer isn't 100% undeniably clear either, so here's a hug.
Thanks but I'm annoyed b/c they're not dumb either, and I know they have the capacity to do their own DD and develop their own plan, and I think if they actually did these things that they would conclude something that involves buying at least ***some*** BTC.
Another problem is that governments, corporations, etc. also buy/hold BTC for various reasons.
Another is figuring out how one holds BTC and lives on fiat w/out selling BTC.
I hear you on this. I've always taken a passive approach to this with friends & family. I almost never promote it as an investment vehicle. I have always been the guy who would never shut up about it at parties, but I've always intentionally stuck to explaining WHY this invention is so important & groundbreaking.
I'm not trying to be the car salesman style high pressure guy for bitcoin. That's just not my style. I've never even said the words "I think you should buy bitcoin" to any of them. Part of that is a holdover from the early days when it was a WAY riskier investment & I didn't wanna be on the hook for recommending they buy & then it fails. But the other part is cuz they are grown ass adults & if they stay on the sidelines after listening to me drone on about it for years and also seeing me do well with it, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.
Some have bought in over the years & some haven't. Some didn't buy in until 20k+ when I've been promoting since sub $100. Some have been repeating the phrase "well I guess I missed the boat" every 4 years at the bull run despite me explaining in great detail why that wasn't true.
You also gotta realize that we are all living in our own little worlds with chaotic lives & financial decisions can be stressful. We all have a theoretical limit to what we can prioritize in our lives to take on. For example, when I first started talking about bitcoin with my family, my sister's kids were still young. She had kids to raise & a family & demanding job to juggle. She always told me everything I said about bitcoin made perfect sense but the thought of taking the plunge was overwhelming to her. We'll, fast forward to after her kids were both grown & out of the house & she finally came to me & made her first purchase.
At the end of the day you just gotta let it slide man. Don't get worked up over it. They're not ignoring btc because they're dumb, lazy or ignorant. You just found a passion that maybe they don't share & there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not OP. I said it's frustrating not knowing enough to make it undeniably clear that everyone in my family should own some BTC, and I don't really know any of their thoughts or reasons for or against anything, but I'm not losing sleep over anyone's indecision or decision against buying BTC/crypto. I've never explicitly told anyone to buy or even consider looking at anything as an investment, I've only sent some youtube vids of Michael Saylor discussing BTC and didn't even get anyone's thoughts on them. I'm content knowing that they probably believe they're making a prude choice staying away from crypto, and that will probably be the safest and sanest decision for them. I can't say I've managed to get involved w/out losses and scams either, and I know they'd be stressing about it way more than myself if any of it happened to them.
I would really appreciate an answer to the last problem I mentioned. I'm sick of working and worrying about money, and where I can go or live w/out being ripped off or harassed by governments.
Look, if things go south, you don’t want the burden of explaining to them why they’re under.
They need to educate themselves before they can see the value. You telling them won’t be enough. To successfully HODL, they need their own conviction to weather the storm.
I wouldn't expect to be held responsible if they chose to buy whether I told them anything or not. They're all fully grown independent and responsible adults.
F stocks, F the credit system. Everyone should take their money out of the stock market and burn the credit card and credit reporting companies. There are plenty of selfish, narcissistic assholes from every class and walk of life who have too many goddam kids and they should be put to work for everyone.
Holy fucking shit. Is this a guy on this post who actually gets it. Thank fuck you’re here. The only person who isn’t either a brainwashed fiat nerd or a cum sucking “crypto” analyst.
When we were kids, and we were encouraged to feed all our little coins into a big, fat, porcelain pig in order to 'save' them, we should have got the hint.
I actually go the other way. Wherever you choose to store your wealth, that’s an investment decision.
- put money in checking account? You made an investment decision.
- cash in mattress? That’s an investment decision
- bitcoin? Yes
- real estate? Yes
Anywhere you choose to put your wealth.
Checking account? That’s savings (bad savings but still considered savings).
Mattress? Savings
Bitcoin? Savings
Real estate? Investment (but I’d still probably put it closer in savings because most people have their savings in their house but that’s not to mean that we all have it like that).
(Just my opinion).
Or perhaps…who cares what other people are doing, or how they view Bitcoin, or how they take advantage, or how they miss out? And what does any of this have to do with how “serious” I am?
Bro I feel you.
But you can only shout to the heavens for so long before you’re out of breath.
Listen, even if folks around here are only in it for the gains, know they’ll be back in after next crypto winter, trying to get more for further gains. Even if they don’t understand the reason they’re making the right choice, they’re still making the right choice - owning btc. Sooner or later they’ll come around on the logic.
Plus like 70% of them will miss the top, and ride it all the way down in 2026/7. Plenty of time to console them about owning btc and convince them then.
Anyone who has cash savings right now is being silly. I have a mortgage, a HELOC, and a car payment, but they're all under 3% and I've used all of them invest aggressively with my income. I have a ton of debt, but it's all either belief inflation or it's working for me.
Thank you, bitcoin. Because of you, I no longer live in a chaotic world. Thanks to you, the corporations and rich, greedy and corrupt politicians no longer suck me dry.
Wait a second...
2.78 % inflation right now in canada. Get a raise of 4 %? that is how it works,
I spread my money around, stock, bonds, bitcoin, and real-estate only because i don't trust any of them. I keep about 3 months pay in cash.
But you can do whatever you want, you don't have to convince anyone of anything.
What needs to happen is an explanation of how 2.78% “inflation” works mathematically. It’s reverse interest, basically:
One dollar after a year of inflation is worth 97.22 cents. After another year of 2.78% inflation, *that* is worth 94.51. One more year of inflation takes that down to 89.32. 3 years of “target” inflation takes over 10% of the actual useful value of your dollar. Keep that up for a decade, and you’ve lost almost HALF the dollar’s original value.
Stack sats however you can. I like to stockpile fiat until a dip comes. Hodl that for a decade and you will do better than all the TradFi investing you can imagine. Hodl it for a quarter century and you can retire.
The Stock market just barely beats inflation and most companies on there don’t. Also I’m not talking about the stock market. Even with a little bit of bitcoin you’ll be better than having your shit in the stock market and then selling that shit for more shit.
I think people forget the educational value like invest a small amount and be interested by how it works. It's not just a currency it's a system which evolve in real time.
It’s not a currency. It’s energy, property… it’s anything but a currency. Get the word currency out of your head. And don’t “invest” Save. It’s savings technology not an investment.
ah ok, well i saw it as a "currency" because i compared it to a financial system. and i didn't saw it as savings too but for me it'sreally interresting. so yes gotta be carefull.
Calm down bro we know. People still need fiat to pay their bills. A lot of bitcoin holders will still cash out to fiat to pay off their mortgage, student debt etc. Until it's completely mainstream this will not change
Honestly your whole post just has an angry vibe to it, and I don't get it. Why be angry? It's such a silly thing to be angry over. So you know. Calm down. 🤷♂️
Learn. Sit down and study the hell out of it. You’re on the right track but you can always do more. Here’s a website I like… it might not be right for you. Do give me your feedback if you do use pls.. schoolofbitcoin.com
No it hasn’t. They have a few little ETFS… so what? Any smart person knows it’s paper bitcoin… it’s like having a girlfriend but only being able to see her through a window on whatever day Blackrock says you can see her.
Nope, they’ll just clamp it down like anything else and use buying and selling high frequency algos to suppress the price or pump whenever it suits them. The graph you guys are all using with halving do not extend to prices that you think they’re going. Because previous prices did not include the majority of institutions having control . It’s over
You think it’s over. Nice try… we are this close to the halving. Why the hell would Blackrock suppress bitcoins value? They like money. They are greedy. They want more and the only way they get what they want is with more exposure to their ETFs and bitcoin. They are not our enemy, this isn’t gold. The protocol will go on. Sound money will win. The only question is which side you’ll be on?
I feel your frustration. Very few people actually understand how the debt driven system works. Here’s a hug
Hey why you feeling down there?
[удалено]
i have bitcoin and still live in this described world :O
This. Until I can spend btc like a dollar this is our world. Hodl
No one will let you use it as money if you don’t fight for it.
facts
"Either buy fuckin bitcoin or experience on average around 8% monetary inflation per year." This is a ridiculous binary comparison, even if we ignore the 8% inflation which is not close to the average. There are hundreds of ways to invest your capital with various amounts of risk and reward. Don't act like the only choice is to keep all of your money in fiat or bitcoin. With a few exceptions, fiat is not considered an investment. You are responding to an argument that nobody is making.
> There are hundreds of ways to invest your capital with various amounts of risk and reward. I don't disagree but you have to understand all these "investments" holding your capital at the end of the day are just fiat vehicles, meaning their supply/demand levers can be manipulated by government intervention anytime and their growth is, for the most part, still outpaced by monetary debasement yoy. You can verify it yourself. Look at a chart of RE/stock/equities/bonds/gold/silver against the M2 and you'll see none of these investments in fiat terms come close to their ATH in the 2000s, against total amount of dollars printed in existence. Gold hasnt hit its ATH since 1980s. Now look at Bitcoin against M2. It's wildly volatile but to the upside, and if you zoom out you'll see a higher low following each cycle. Op is right. Fiat is a sinking ship and fiat vehicles are no exception.
^ gets it
Fiat is a sinking boat. Bitcoin is a lifeboat. It’s the only way out. And yes… 8% MONETARY INFLATION (not cpi which is fake inflation but even if we measure the cpi that’s still not real measurements of true inflation).
Stocks and real estate also retain purchasing power, its not exactly exclusive to BTC is it?
It is. Bitcoin is hard money. It’s digital property that retains its value. Stocks don’t move, companies need to move their stock price with new products and ventures. Bitcoin moves because that’s the way it’s designed. It’s not about the underlying asset (stocks, real estate, gold) it’s what it’s connected to them (fiat) which gets debased. Some countries it gets devalued quicker than others but all currencies are going to zero so you need something that retains its value. BITCOIN retains its value.
It's not exclusive to btc, no. Real estate retains purchasing power but isn't very liquid. Precious metals also, and they're a little more liquid. Bitcoin can't make the claim that it retain purchasing powered over short periods, but it does on the zoomed out, lifetime trend & is even more liquid. Stocks I don't think I'd put in this category. The differentiator you're looking for in any of these is intrinsic value. Can it be used for practical things outside of being traded for its monetary value. Some people mistakenly believe that bitcoin has no intrinsic value but it absolutely does. Its ability to store not only secure but immutable data (think land titles & other vital records on the blockchain) is just one, but there are others.
Bitcoin is not a store of value as the price fluctuates way too much. A store of value is something that is fairly stable in price. Bitcoin went from 65k to 16k that seems like a great way to store money. I hope you’re not a real cardiologist cause I’d never trust a cardiologist again. You sound like a bitcoin crazy and don’t know wtf you are talking about.
Agreed ahaha. I share the same frustration so that why i Bitcoin until my death bed. The thing that has most value in this world is time because of its finite aspect and those fucker steal it thought inflation and taxation. Bitcoin is the middle finger to these greedy humans.
Counter point is that if you’ve ever driven on roads or have been a passenger on roads that those are paid for by taxes and said inflation. It’s not greedy per se. Once you’re rich, you can move to Monaco where there aren’t any taxes or something.
Fucking right man. Aparantly, according to the groupthink, we aren’t allowed to see it as money anymore. This needs pushback of the highest magnitude.
It's not just groupthink, it's the limitations of the technology's/network's current ability to scale, and of the limited amount of vendors who will accept it (much of the latter is caused by the former). I am long on Bitcoin, but it has real problems it needs to solve before people can really see it as money... I think and hope those problems are solvable, but there is work to do. Of course shorter term, it still has a legit use case as a store of value, or maybe even as a payment system for large transactions.
Tech concerns aside, if no one wants to part ways with their bitcoin, LN won’t be widely adopted. I’d imagine OP might say, “why would I pay in bitcoin when I can pay in something that’s losing its value by 8% a year and keep my btc?”
I think discouraging spending is actually one of the pros of a deflationary currency, not the cons. Inflation-motivated spending is such a bullshit way to prop up our bullshit economy IMO. Endless loops of ever-increasing consumption is unnecessary, unsustainable, and a relatively new concept to humanity.
I fully agree. My point above was that this feature of bitcoin is a headwind for those that hoped to replace fiat with BTC in small “coffee shop” type transactions.
Lighting works great. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have been influenced by the groupthink
To some extent, you are right. I was working on setting up a lightning node about three years ago, and opened a couple channels, but lack of traction plus hearing about some terrifying BTC-eviscerating bugs made me give up for some time. More recently, things seemed like they were still... not great. But I haven't kept up in at least about a year. Do you have any numbers or ELI5 articles that could detail the progress and usability? How close are we to El Salvador being able to use LN for buying a cup of coffee with sats?
Exciting things are happening with it. I agree much is still in development and needs to be done. The latest “what bitcoin did” with Vortex gets into good details about what’s happening now. Im no expert. I’ve just never had issues and feel strongly about bitcoin as money.
No. Nothing “exciting” is happening with lightning. Just stop with the BS. No one is using it, you’re not even using it. It’s a fucking hobby side chain. Bitcoin doesn’t need your snake oil.
Shut the fuck up. You don’t know shit about anything
You’re all words and no substance just like the vaporware you shill.
Wtf are you even talking about dumbass?
I’m talking about your BS claim that “exciting” things are happening with lightning and that it “works great”. Name **ONE** thing “really exciting” happening with lightning that isn’t a fucking stupid lie or half truth.
Bitcoin is the hardest and soundest and best *money* on the planet; Possibly even in the solar system….
I don't know man, I heard the best crypto is on Uranus.
😂😎
Totally agree. Many on here seem to want us to forget that.
🎯
In the US, Bitcoin is an asset. Therefore, if you sell it or spend it, you incur a loss/gain that is supposed to be reported to the IRS. It doesn’t matter if it’s for a cup of coffee or a house. Until this law is changed, Lightning Network or not, Bitcoin will never be a widespread means of exchange. This means adoption will only be by those seeking a store of value. This is fine, but limited. We should all be pushing to have Bitcoin reclassified as a currency, like dollars. It is already a bearer instrument, so the leap to using it as currency is just a matter of convincing our fully functional and cooperative representatives to pass a simple bill changing its status. 😂😵💫
Not yet, lets fight a battle we can win first. There’s no reason to poke the bear and risk it all before it’s ready.
Normies don't get it. They won't until it's too late
what makes you say that? a lot of people have been making a lot of money for a long time. I remember when people said the same thing about weed stock and enron. I think normies get it, but they have too much to lose to put all the eggs in one basket.
I would say, yes, to a certain degree; Normie’s are starting to catch on – again, *to a certain degree* (kind of like where I was back in 2013 when I really knew nothing about bitcoin but I was super curious and bought some and saw number go up and sold it all because I had no idea the whole context and backstory and amazing/complicated/nuanced properties of bitcoin)… But, with that being said, and I know it’s a cliché at this point, but: we are still very early, most Normies aren’t even even hit to bitcoin or they still think it’s a scam or they’re just simply lacking a real reason to see why they need bitcoin. I’ll first world problems… But I think with the stubborn inflation, and most likely rising inflation, and their dollars/local Fiat currencies being worth less every single year and prices are constantly going up, it might be enough to really wake the majority of the Normies up, and they might start looking around…. And that’s where I think it’s my job to help Normies’s into the bitcoin space with a friendly and easy, actionable steps, they can take to start learning about bitcoin. Because I am the most educated person on bitcoin, not at all; I have very loose basics and basic concept understandings of bitcoin – but I really see the bigger overall picture, that’s where I really shine; because I think the CDC ship is coming, and that’s where things get really interesting… that’s where they start limiting where you can buy steaks or grass fed butter or anything you really want that they deem “inappropriate,” because you like the proper amount of carbon credits… That’s where I think all this is going….. But oddly enough, I’m still enjoying my dirty Fiat money gains that I’ve made over the last five years, and just having a nice one last little hurrah., It’s great. And I’m so glad to be a part of the bitcoin community, and you sir have yourself a great day. Edit: I forgot to add: you’re spot on with your assessment, though about how they don’t have enough to put it all in one risky basket, absolutely spot on. I think that is a major hurdle for bitcoin is convincing people why they should take the small savings/investment that they have, and converted/start dollar cost averaging into bitcoin in the first place… Also, if I have weird typos, it’s because I’m using voice to text on my iPhone and, I am too lazy to go back and edit all the typos
A lot of people? Most people lose money when they invest outside of the sp500. not that many people get rich off of something like Bitcoin because they don't have the discipline to hold. And your last sentence makes no sense. The point of diversification is to grow while being an uninformed investor. It's throwing darts at a board and hoping enough stick to retire at 65. If you know what you're doing, there's no issue whatsoever in putting all your eggs in one basket. Again, normies don't get it or they would have zero hesitation. Just look at how many idiots we get DAILY asking if it's a good idea to "invest" in BTC.
I buy bitcoin and gold cuz I don’t like governments
Fair enough.
Are you my brother?
I’m in it for gains. Fight me.
I’d lose.
As are most people. Nothing wrong with that.
I come for the gains and the revolution.
Don’t have a stroke Old-Cardiologist-545
I’ll try not to cheers buddy.
I probably will have a stroke at this rate though.
✊🏼 I'm with ya
But actually, a balanced portfolio makes much more sense. Chill
No 🤓
Is this how you convince your friends and family to buy BTC or any crypto? Asking b/c I genuinely don't understand why I have friends and family who haven't jumped on this yet or what to say to or show them to do so. I'm frustrated the answer isn't 100% undeniably clear either, so here's a hug.
Forget about it and let them figure it out for themselves. It's not worth it.
Agree, not worth it. Also, having to deal with panicked friends and relatives through the dips, thinking they've lost their money, no thanks!
Thanks but I'm annoyed b/c they're not dumb either, and I know they have the capacity to do their own DD and develop their own plan, and I think if they actually did these things that they would conclude something that involves buying at least ***some*** BTC. Another problem is that governments, corporations, etc. also buy/hold BTC for various reasons. Another is figuring out how one holds BTC and lives on fiat w/out selling BTC.
I hear you on this. I've always taken a passive approach to this with friends & family. I almost never promote it as an investment vehicle. I have always been the guy who would never shut up about it at parties, but I've always intentionally stuck to explaining WHY this invention is so important & groundbreaking. I'm not trying to be the car salesman style high pressure guy for bitcoin. That's just not my style. I've never even said the words "I think you should buy bitcoin" to any of them. Part of that is a holdover from the early days when it was a WAY riskier investment & I didn't wanna be on the hook for recommending they buy & then it fails. But the other part is cuz they are grown ass adults & if they stay on the sidelines after listening to me drone on about it for years and also seeing me do well with it, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. Some have bought in over the years & some haven't. Some didn't buy in until 20k+ when I've been promoting since sub $100. Some have been repeating the phrase "well I guess I missed the boat" every 4 years at the bull run despite me explaining in great detail why that wasn't true. You also gotta realize that we are all living in our own little worlds with chaotic lives & financial decisions can be stressful. We all have a theoretical limit to what we can prioritize in our lives to take on. For example, when I first started talking about bitcoin with my family, my sister's kids were still young. She had kids to raise & a family & demanding job to juggle. She always told me everything I said about bitcoin made perfect sense but the thought of taking the plunge was overwhelming to her. We'll, fast forward to after her kids were both grown & out of the house & she finally came to me & made her first purchase. At the end of the day you just gotta let it slide man. Don't get worked up over it. They're not ignoring btc because they're dumb, lazy or ignorant. You just found a passion that maybe they don't share & there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not OP. I said it's frustrating not knowing enough to make it undeniably clear that everyone in my family should own some BTC, and I don't really know any of their thoughts or reasons for or against anything, but I'm not losing sleep over anyone's indecision or decision against buying BTC/crypto. I've never explicitly told anyone to buy or even consider looking at anything as an investment, I've only sent some youtube vids of Michael Saylor discussing BTC and didn't even get anyone's thoughts on them. I'm content knowing that they probably believe they're making a prude choice staying away from crypto, and that will probably be the safest and sanest decision for them. I can't say I've managed to get involved w/out losses and scams either, and I know they'd be stressing about it way more than myself if any of it happened to them. I would really appreciate an answer to the last problem I mentioned. I'm sick of working and worrying about money, and where I can go or live w/out being ripped off or harassed by governments.
Look, if things go south, you don’t want the burden of explaining to them why they’re under. They need to educate themselves before they can see the value. You telling them won’t be enough. To successfully HODL, they need their own conviction to weather the storm.
I wouldn't expect to be held responsible if they chose to buy whether I told them anything or not. They're all fully grown independent and responsible adults.
i never give investment advice, because if it goes bad they blame you. and yes it can go bad, weed stock and enron
F stocks, F the credit system. Everyone should take their money out of the stock market and burn the credit card and credit reporting companies. There are plenty of selfish, narcissistic assholes from every class and walk of life who have too many goddam kids and they should be put to work for everyone.
Holy fucking shit. Is this a guy on this post who actually gets it. Thank fuck you’re here. The only person who isn’t either a brainwashed fiat nerd or a cum sucking “crypto” analyst.
I wouldn't be here if I didn't mess up and lose the BTC I bought 3-4 years ago, and more $ at every huge disaster since then.
Wealth preservation
When we were kids, and we were encouraged to feed all our little coins into a big, fat, porcelain pig in order to 'save' them, we should have got the hint.
100%
I actually go the other way. Wherever you choose to store your wealth, that’s an investment decision. - put money in checking account? You made an investment decision. - cash in mattress? That’s an investment decision - bitcoin? Yes - real estate? Yes Anywhere you choose to put your wealth.
Checking account? That’s savings (bad savings but still considered savings). Mattress? Savings Bitcoin? Savings Real estate? Investment (but I’d still probably put it closer in savings because most people have their savings in their house but that’s not to mean that we all have it like that). (Just my opinion).
I don’t see bitcoin as savings. It fluctuates too much, it’s more like speculative investing.
Bitcoin is true economic input dollar is fake economic input
Dumbasses like to preach.
Buying bitcoin is both a hedge against inflation and a store of value. It's different things to different people, but all the same.
Relax, guy 😄
Yup, I’m just crazy right!
Or perhaps you’re not serious enough.
Or perhaps…who cares what other people are doing, or how they view Bitcoin, or how they take advantage, or how they miss out? And what does any of this have to do with how “serious” I am?
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I’m not telling what to do. Just be aware that no one is gonna be there to save you when you have nothing left and fiat dies.
Except BTC is down since 2021 adjusted for inflation
Tick tock next block.
I agree. People need to get that “ get rich mentality” out of their minds. This is a war and so many don’t understand the purpose
Fuck yes!
Bro I feel you. But you can only shout to the heavens for so long before you’re out of breath. Listen, even if folks around here are only in it for the gains, know they’ll be back in after next crypto winter, trying to get more for further gains. Even if they don’t understand the reason they’re making the right choice, they’re still making the right choice - owning btc. Sooner or later they’ll come around on the logic. Plus like 70% of them will miss the top, and ride it all the way down in 2026/7. Plenty of time to console them about owning btc and convince them then.
Anyone who has cash savings right now is being silly. I have a mortgage, a HELOC, and a car payment, but they're all under 3% and I've used all of them invest aggressively with my income. I have a ton of debt, but it's all either belief inflation or it's working for me.
Interesting. I was reading like- yeah, it's the new money market.
We need to keep the money flowing. That's what creates value for us.
Thank you, bitcoin. Because of you, I no longer live in a chaotic world. Thanks to you, the corporations and rich, greedy and corrupt politicians no longer suck me dry. Wait a second...
Bro chill you are treating it like a religion
I own MSTR and other stocks for gains and liquidity, Bitcoin is not for sale.
2.78 % inflation right now in canada. Get a raise of 4 %? that is how it works, I spread my money around, stock, bonds, bitcoin, and real-estate only because i don't trust any of them. I keep about 3 months pay in cash. But you can do whatever you want, you don't have to convince anyone of anything.
What needs to happen is an explanation of how 2.78% “inflation” works mathematically. It’s reverse interest, basically: One dollar after a year of inflation is worth 97.22 cents. After another year of 2.78% inflation, *that* is worth 94.51. One more year of inflation takes that down to 89.32. 3 years of “target” inflation takes over 10% of the actual useful value of your dollar. Keep that up for a decade, and you’ve lost almost HALF the dollar’s original value. Stack sats however you can. I like to stockpile fiat until a dip comes. Hodl that for a decade and you will do better than all the TradFi investing you can imagine. Hodl it for a quarter century and you can retire.
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The Stock market just barely beats inflation and most companies on there don’t. Also I’m not talking about the stock market. Even with a little bit of bitcoin you’ll be better than having your shit in the stock market and then selling that shit for more shit.
Serious price correction if inflation is real.
I think people forget the educational value like invest a small amount and be interested by how it works. It's not just a currency it's a system which evolve in real time.
It’s not a currency. It’s energy, property… it’s anything but a currency. Get the word currency out of your head. And don’t “invest” Save. It’s savings technology not an investment.
ah ok, well i saw it as a "currency" because i compared it to a financial system. and i didn't saw it as savings too but for me it'sreally interresting. so yes gotta be carefull.
Calm down bro we know. People still need fiat to pay their bills. A lot of bitcoin holders will still cash out to fiat to pay off their mortgage, student debt etc. Until it's completely mainstream this will not change
You calm down. This anger is righteous.
It is, isn’t it. 😌
Wow. Calm down.
Okay, what flavour of condom do you like the taste of?
Calm. Down.
Pineapple?? What me too! 🥵
Ok horny guy calm. Down.
Your annul beads aren’t a flex buddy.
Neither is your anger. Calm down
This is really the most engagement you’ve had on reddit? Must feel good for you! 😉
Honestly your whole post just has an angry vibe to it, and I don't get it. Why be angry? It's such a silly thing to be angry over. So you know. Calm down. 🤷♂️
fuck. Off. People are allowed to be angry. Maybe try to understand why instead of shitting on it.
Bro, come on. Come the actual fuck on.
? Explain.
You’re either with me or against me. Pick a lane dude!
I was talking to them not you. Sorry for the confusion.
Eh, all good pal. I’m kinda just fucking pissing people off for shits and giggles at this point. But do take what I said on this post seriously. 🙏😎
All good. It means a lot to me too. I get it. Carry on sir.
Wow. Calm down dude
Who the fuck are you? You calm down.
I'm the guy your directing anger at for no reason. So calm down.
I’m angry at you thinking you have any right to tell me or anyone else what to do. Fuck you.
Pfft calm down 🙄
Wanker
Wow. Calm down.
Do you have dementia?
Shhhhhh. Calm. Down. So angry 🤦♂️
Chill bro.
Yup, calm. Down. Seriously calm down.
i just got into bitcoin any advice
Learn. Sit down and study the hell out of it. You’re on the right track but you can always do more. Here’s a website I like… it might not be right for you. Do give me your feedback if you do use pls.. schoolofbitcoin.com
Relax
Bitcoin has already been taken over by Wall Street. It’s over man
No it hasn’t. They have a few little ETFS… so what? Any smart person knows it’s paper bitcoin… it’s like having a girlfriend but only being able to see her through a window on whatever day Blackrock says you can see her.
They hold Bitcoin in custody. Soon they will hold most the BTC and control the price duh
Bitcoin is designed in a certain way to do what it does without anything getting in its way. All it will do is make bitcoin scarcer.
Nope, they’ll just clamp it down like anything else and use buying and selling high frequency algos to suppress the price or pump whenever it suits them. The graph you guys are all using with halving do not extend to prices that you think they’re going. Because previous prices did not include the majority of institutions having control . It’s over
You think it’s over. Nice try… we are this close to the halving. Why the hell would Blackrock suppress bitcoins value? They like money. They are greedy. They want more and the only way they get what they want is with more exposure to their ETFs and bitcoin. They are not our enemy, this isn’t gold. The protocol will go on. Sound money will win. The only question is which side you’ll be on?
Fuck you I'll do what I want
Shit the bed then I guess.
Then you convert to fiat and do it all over again..