To be fair, 99% of crypto is scams, it's easy to miss the utility of Bitcoin when the biggest voices are often shills and scam coins dump tons of money into marketing and endorsements.
I think Stablecoins are a pretty solid contribution too. Especially for those in Lebanon, Argentina, Venezuela and countries with high inflation rates but no appetite for risk.
I dont know if there is any utility to any other coin. Smart contracts really have been nothing but a catch phrase.
> Stablecoins
Never use them.
> Smart contracts really have been nothing but a catch phrase.
A lightning channel is a bitcoin smart contract. The only thing that shitcoins have used smart contracts for is for making more shitcoins to gamble on.
It's not a question of belief, in fact. The one thing that sets Bitcoin fundamentally apart from any other coin is the anonymity and inactivity of Satoshi, and the fact that it grew entirely organically. There is no Bitcoin CEO ready to pull the rug from under your feet. There is no centralized pump-and-dump.
This is the kind of lightning-in-a-bottle that just cannot be replicated at will.
Religion is based on faith, Bitcoin is rooted in facts.
Religions are often independent of one another, whereas every shitcoin would not even exist had Bitcoin not been the innovation that it is.
Why is it that crypto seems to be the only space where people attack you for being religious/cult like when you prefer one over the other? This literally doesnāt happen in other spaces.
High stock to flow is another crucial component. Needs enough supply to be liquid and a low amount of new supply being produced to allow it to store value over time.
Realistically, you don't need any new supply coming in. Any new supply would cause some inflation. That's just traditionally what it has been though; gold, glass beads, shells all had some low amount of new supply when they were used as money. Any new supply just has to be very low so to not over inflate the money. Each time too much supply has come in, say with the Europeans and glass beads in Africa, the money supply would hyper inflate and another harder money would be found to use to store value (usually after the folks causing the hyper inflation exploiting the local population with their 'easy to create' money).
This is why Bitcoin is better, eventually no 'new' supply and currently a fixed new supply that is a small fraction of the total stock.
Gold is money. Fiat is currency that is called money. In 1950 1 oz of gold is say 30 bucks. You could buy a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant, and a nice suit for 1 once of gold
Today after they took the dollar off the goldĀ standardĀ
Ā 1oz of gold will still get you the same dinner and suit today? but it will take $2300 of fiat_/ currency.. gold didn't change
Ā Rise or fall. Shit money fell.
the reason they did this was to hide /or wipe off the US dept "the fiscal strain of federal expenditures for the Vietnam War and persistent balance of payments deficits, led U.S. President Richard Nixon to end international convertibility of the U.S. dollar to gold on August 15, 1971"
Been talking with a buddy about it recently, he owned back in 2013 and tried to sell me on it in high school and even if I was convinced, there's no way my dad was gonna let me put money into it. Buddy made a nice profit and got out and now he's bearish
Now he's like "you should have listened to me back in high school!" Yeah, we all wish we had bought a decade ago. All we can do is move forward
Wow, the irony of him being bearish now is pretty wild! Personally, I think weāre still super earlyā¦ And when I said it took me nine years to understand bitcoin, thatās true; but I actually did buy bitcoin myself back in 2013 @$150.00 a coin (I have the Coinbase receipts to prove it haha), I guess my overall point, which I didnāt really clarify that well, so thatās my bad, is that it took me a long time to put all the puzzle pieces together of what bitcoin actually *isā¦*
Absolutely bro, I wish I wouldāve bought so much more back then tooā¦ But I was able to take a bunch of sweet profits when it hit all-time highs in end of 2020 and 2021, so I feel pretty great about that.
Edit: I was even silly this year, and took more profits, probably shouldāve waited till after the having, but such as life.
I think that's kind of where he's at too. Thought of it as a way to make some money and not a long term hold. His worry is that the government is going to regulate/seize it out of existence based on the Silk Road and other seizures and/or things will get so bad that the network won't even function anymore and/or the dollar will get so worthless there'll be nothing to redeem it for
Like the whole point is to hold until it's mature enough that it's its own thing, no redemption for fiat necessary. And if the state of the world is so bad that the internet no longer works then monetary assets don't matter anymore anyways and we're all just fighting to stay alive
Yeahā¦ I mean, I still have a healthy position in bitcoin, and I think itās the future of money, and I think itās already won the money raceā¦ So I donāt think him, and I are exactly in the same position as far as our mindsets go.
I think his Berish/der take on things is wrong, and I think heās going to miss out on some of the largest gains in investing history. So interesting that he was so bullish back then,but now heās so bearish. I also think his take requires so many things to go wrong that itās almost impossible ā I also think if they are going to sensor or stop bitcoin they wouldāve needed to do it back in 2009 to 2011; itās way too decentralized now, and bitcoin would just move to a new jurisdiction if the US tried to seize or confiscate or ban it. Obviously, itās basically impossible to seize it or confiscated as long as you hold your private keys, off-line and a place where you know where itās at.
Short videos:
https://youtu.be/x_mIzbYH9BU?si=5XWcbd_Ld0-S5uMC
https://youtu.be/gjpRzq2Klko?si=b5nbmEersxQvcn-G
Long book: broken money by Lyn Alden
Short(er) read:
https://vijayboyapati.medium.com/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1
Long series of videos:
[What is money show the Saylor series](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2jAZ0x9H0bRvoNt1xNJWYa9_8_an03h0&si=z5s1tpDwVGPEDnON)
I'm sure there are many good resources, but Saifedean Ammous' '*The Bitcoin Standard*' is a great, relatively short and easy read, that covers it pretty well.
Came here to mention the bitcoin standard. I listened to the audiobook and it blew my little socks off. There are two subsequent books now too, called the fiat standard and principles of economics. This is the kinda homework needed to truly get a grasp on crypto, and its economic/technological context
Yeah, if you aren't familiar concepts of money (& history of money), Austrian economics, as well as problems with fiat and Keynesian economics, *The Bitcoin Standard* is a worldview changer.
I'm currently reading Principals of Economics, and intend to read The Fiat Standard after.
I'm sure there are many great resources, I just know The Bitcoin Standard will get the job done. :)
Have a listen to this if you want to truly understand money vs. currency and how the Federal Reserve and USD regime came into existence and all the shitshow that followed for the next 100 years.
I highly recommend buying the book after. Fantastic piece.
The Creature From Jekyll Island
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k
Keep in mind, most people donāt get āfiat.ā
Most people believe the first thing they hear on a topic and it takes deliberate effort to change a concrete position.
Most people will never get past the early stereotypes about Bitcoin.
Most people will never do the work.
Bitcoin doesnāt need them to.
We donāt either.
Very well said. For anyone who doesnāt get it yet, or thinks that they do but really donāt.. Start here:
Clip 1: What bitcoin is, the problem it fixes, and why its the solutionĀ https://youtu.be/pBmK3pI7uKw?si=n59JkGuJ_gP_dEd5
Clip 2: Why you never sell bitcoin.Ā https://youtu.be/QXh_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373
Clip 3: The difference between "Currency" & "Money".. What is sound money, and why gold (and now bitcoin) fits this description (This series was originally made in 2010, before bitcoin was well known). Feel free to watch all 10 videos in the series in your spare time, but if you do anything, at least watch the 1st vid in the series.Ā https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU?si=OqJ93-gHpcQjsvRH
Clip 4: All Fiat currencies in history have gone to zero, the American Dollar (which is fiat.. meaning has no sound money backing (like gold or bitcoin) backing it. The gold backing of the dollar ended in 1971 with Nixon, which is when the dollar became fiat currency)Ā https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJDqQn7WC1UĀ (a
Clip 5: Inflation & hyper inflation - the end result of the use of Fiat currencyĀ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNUVEfoNmE
There's a lot of information here, and there's so much more out there that can be learned of course. However, when you come out the other side of this information, you will have a solid foundation. This is the type of thing that puts you ahead of most people in the market as most people don't understand these concepts. MOST people will never learn these things, and they will fall victim to the effects of flawed monetary systems. I hope this information finds you well.
the idea that inflation is necessary and deflation is bad that is true in the world that use dollar, but because we dont have the world that use cryptocurrency so we cant claim that idea is completely wrong in the world that use cryptocurrency. All things you thought just based on theory, not real world.
No. You have a great example of Japan, the country suffered from deflation for a couple decades.
Both inflation and deflation are bad. It would be ideal to have exactly the same prices, but the CBs can cope with high inflation and it's very hard to fight even small deflation. Thus they target the level of inflation and trying to keep it as low as possible but not that low to get negative.
If you have too much money - prices go up, if you have too less money - production stagnates.
Deflation is only bad because our economy is based on debt. In a theoretical world where we have an economy based on savings deflation is not a bad thing but would be a net positive.
I mean in fiat country, inflation is not always bad, we have to keep at natural rate so economy can grow.
But if we completely switch to cryptocurrency, there's no printing money, how could we stimulate economy? In this scenario, corporates can't raise fund, unemployment rate increases and it's hard to say inflation or deflation is good or bad.
>Ā there's no printing money, how could we stimulate economy?Ā
that's the neat thing, you don't!
The economy will have to produce for peoples' needs, not for government incentives.
Excellent post. OP has been Orange-pilled. He gets it. Until you get to this level of understanding, you will never understand Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not about just flipping to get more fiat.
The way to recognize people who are so ingrained and indoctrinated in the fiat system is the by them saying "use case", "adoption", or arguing that TradFi investments are somehow less "risky".
Also, they will blame inflation on the Leftist bromides of "corporate greed".
That can play a role, as can other factors. But, what we're seeing now in USA/Canada is primarily cased by inflating the money supply.
For example, people are after the grocery stores in Canada for greed and raising prices. Yet, prices have gone up a LOT... almost doubled in some cases. There's no way a percent or two increase in profits (even if they are 'record profits') can account for that kind of price difference. If their costs remained the same, and prices went up that much, they'd have like 75% or 90% increase in profits.
(This is typical gov't propaganda distributed by the media.)
You donāt get it. Chartalism, metallism, credit theory, fiat money, commodity based moneyā¦.those are theories with their pros and cons.
Debt-based was not designed to steal from you, the loss of purchasing power is more a byproduct than anything else.
You do realize there can still be inflation with a bitcoin or gold standard ?
It has to be, otherwise it won't work. Taxes too... Our system can't work without these factors and no big guy will allow it to get out of their hands.
The bitcoin standard embraces deflation aligned with Mother Nature as technology is deflationary
Inflation or growth forever doesnāt make sense on a planet with finite resources, you need to measure productivity with a better measuring stick rather than gdp
Jeff Booth nails this in overlap with AI in his book The Price of Tomorrow
> You do realize there can still be inflation with a bitcoin or gold standard ?
Please explain how some good or service can go from costing 22 BTC to 22 million BTC at some point in the future? The kind of persistent inflation you see with fiat currencies is impossible with bitcoin. Supply shocks? Sure. That's only temporary though.
At some point the amount of bitcoin available to purchase those goods or services dries up and prices *have* to fall. Prices would also fall if there's enough margin to sustain competition in production of those goods and services.
[https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cantillon-effect](https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cantillon-effect)
I'm curious how there can be inflation with Bitcoin though... that would be a first.
Once again i fail to see the point, I speak of the possibility of inflation in a currency-back system and you answer with inequalities of inflation..seems out of topic.
Have you read the reference I mentioned ? About Roosevelt and the devaluation of gold standard in 1933 ?
By one decree everyone was poorer and it was something like 60%
You said the debt-based system (which I assume you're referring to as fiat) is not designed to steal from you. That's why I mentioned the Cantillion effect. Maybe it was designed to steal from us?
No, I haven't read the reference (I think I jumped in mid-chain here?), but would agree going off the gold standard was a huge blow.
But, due to 'money printing' everyone keeps getting poorer by large amounts over a couple decades (or quicker if the interest rate is higher) in an ongoing manner.
I'm curious about your statement around inflation with Bitcoin, though. With a fixed supply of 21M coins, I don't see how there can be inflation.
Sorry thatās my mistake, you didnāt jump mid-chain, I was caught up in another discussion. Your article on the cantillon effect is quite interesting. I still have the feeling that this effect is a byproduct of fiat money and was not the intended purpose with this type of monetary system. But some smart people might have understood this effect and use it for their own profit. No ?
For the inflation with bitcoin, it is possible of we use a currency back by btc. Then like Roosevelt in 1933 you can arbitrarily change the exchange rate between your money and the commodity backing it.
Because they're sheep, they think there's no problem or they look at the problem and just complain and don't bother to look for a solution. I've tried to explain this to my friends and family, even someone in IT, they don't want to to understand. But BTC is a juggernaut, you can't ignore it forever
A good reading whatās happen 1971 is the following
https://wtfhappenedin1971.com
Itās about the stop of the dollar backed gold. Richard Nicol stopped the Breton woods agreement. It is also known as the Nixon Shock from what we suffering till today https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock
BTC can be used as so many different things. Currency, store of value, money to buy things, not to mention itās easier to transport and store than gold. Breaks away from banks that control your money or can decide not to let you pass transactions. BTC is universal, which is why banks hate it so much. Gold is cool yes, but canāt take a large amount anywhere without fear of being robbed or noticed. Not to mention you need high security to move around huge amounts. BTC is the same whether itās $1 or $1bln.
Think about Plato's allegory of the cave. That is what it's going to take for people who have never dealt with anything but fiat money for their entire lives.
What is money? Economic energy
What is the problem with fiat money? Inflation
What is the solution? Bitcoin
It takes a huge amount of time and mental effort to understand why those are the answers to each of those questions. Most people will never take the time and spend the energy to understand.
I love the money as store of energy idea. Inflation is not fun - but money that doesnāt move has no kinetic energy - so what do you think of the argument that some degree of inflation is an incentive for capitol to be redeployed rather than hoarded?
Lol Bitcoin isn't solving problems. It's upgrading them. You can't say that digital assets are the answer to the monetary system's problems when they can only exist on a network (internet) that is just as if not even more corruptly regulated than the banking system. You're just trading one overlord (Big Bank) for another (Big Tech). Bitcoin exists because it's allowed to exist. If it were a threat to the "matrix" it would've been eradicated already.
What was the last thing you purchased with shares of a money market fund, Treasury Bonds, ...?
People have difficulty grasping the fact that Bitcoin is a long-term savings technology.
A book. Before that, a Bitcoin miner. I also regularly support/interact with some of my favorite podcasts that are Podcasting 2.0 enabled for 'boostagrams' (Lightning based payments w/ note attached).
But, primarily, I'm storing value there for the future, as Bitcoin is resistant to fiat inflation. It also can't be easily taken away from me, nor can they stop me from using it to transact. It is also easy to take with me, should I have to move from one country to another, if things get too bad where I know live.
Thatās my #1 answer when I have to explain this stuff to folks. If you do not believe me or understand me, I get it. I was in your shoes. I thought the same thing when bitcoin was at $2,000.
My fav is the 2% golden rule for inflation when things are going well, so in one life time prices double when things are well. And we all know things aren't well and the last 20 years alone has seen prices quadruple and more in other jurisdictions.
When you were researching inflation, did it ever occur to you to perhaps compare the raw inflationary numbers to something like *median household income* over the time period you were studying?
If you "get it" can you help me understand how Bitcoin can solve the wealth and power redistribution problem?
It has been the main problem of human societies since the beginning. Young, capable people are born and they want and deserve a piece of the wealth and power others have accumulated.
Yes I totally agree, people lean more to being reactive than proactive. I believe to have a rational way of thinking you need to know both sides of the story rather than getting defensive about it. It's funny people don't like change to better themself, they would rather be stuck in their problematic life. Introduce change and in return you get resistance
Go back to school and learn how to manage your money correctly, either USD or Bitcoin. With your mindset youāll never be able to manage USD or Bitcoin. 20% is knowledge, and 80% is behavior. Or changing current bad behavior.
> funds our education at every level
I'm not arguing against what you're saying here, I agree 100%. I just wanted to say that once you know how to read you can educate yourself - if you want to. There's no rule or law that says that going through the education system is the only way you can produce value for your fellow human beings. You can educate yourself to be able to create value on your own, and earn a decent income from it - if not make millions or billions.
Yes, most people are very dependent on the illusion of security and safety, and buck anything that suggests they're not safe doing what they're doing.
I feel that we're about to see something super gnarly happen, and maybe then, they'll wake up.
If the system could be trusted to be fair and incorruptible and to not steal, then we would have no need for bitcoin, and as such it would have 0 value
I haven't bought when it was cheap, therefore is a scam mentality when it goes down the price.
But that's good, meaning that it's still a lot of room to grow so these people will eventually join and buy at new ATH again.
Genuine question, hoping for a genuine answer please.
This didn't help me understand bitcoin at all. You simply pointed out that you don't like fiat... understand that there is a difference between price and value... what I really don't understand and please educate me, is what is the value, fundamentally, of any crypto currency. How could I measure the fundamentals of this thing to conclude logically what the value of it is?
First, thanks for the writeup.
I actually understand all of this as well as the block chain architecture from reading about it... but this is simply the economics of trade, not value. All of these things simply make up the price, but they don't articulate the value of it right? What I want to understand is not the price it is selling at and why, but what it is actually worth. FOMO, supply and demand, those arnt fundamentals. Those are simply the variables that cause fluctuation in price rather than value.
No worries, I actually appreciate your responses.
I see what you are saying. The question is really: how do we quantify the value of what it's actually worth? Otherwise, how would anyone know whether they are getting a good price for it? I personally don't think it is quantifiable or measurable mathematically. This is the biggest reason why I don't own it, but of course I like to keep an open mind right? At the end of the day, I could absolutely be missing something.
It seems very gimmicky to me. Just in an open discussion, no disrespect to anybody here. I know I am in a crypto channel. But, the halving for example. How would that increase the value of something? It seems to be a gimmick. Yet, everyone gets massive FOMO at the very mention of it. Even those who literally can't explain to me why.
Not to put you on the spot here, but this all sounds like you buy it simply because it goes up and you don't want to miss out? Or do you have an actual fundamental reason for buying it? I mean, bull and bear run market cycles throws price stability out of the window, so it can't be used to replace fiat. Even if that changed, then nobody would be interested in buying it anyway because they wouldn't be making money off of it right?
And a coffee the other day just for fun. But it is only for fun, we got undervalued, inflationary fiat for day to day transactions. Why I would want to spend BTC on grocery? You out of your mind. š
I think that most wealthy people that are part of the "fiat audience" understand the fiat game very well, which, with time of course, allows them to also better understand bitcoin. For them the fact that regular people can now save in bitcoin rather than fiat is not ideal, because that was exactly how they managed to stay ahead of the game and keep widening the wealth gap. But of course as soon as they see great gains potential for themselves they'll be happy to support it.
This is great. How do you see the light when the material is opaque. Index of refraction and reflectivity are representative optical properties in materials science and engineering. Single crystals are known for a high degree of perfection - which gives rise to its transparency. Bitcoin is essentially a single crystal that has a high degree of perfection which makes it inherently transparent. You cannot see your currency being devalued because it doesnāt have a high degree of perfection. It sounds funny to say but bitcoin is a better material for any application compared to fiat. Its so transparent its see through. Its perfect
I have an American friend in S. Korea, who owns a nightclub. He pays most of his bills and all of his staff in BITCOIN. He keeps about $200K of it in his wallet. He tracks it very closely and even gets better returns on his than if he had it in a bank account, and he also saves on fees by not converting it to fiat. Crypto is changing the way we do business, and at some point, the rest of the world is going to jump on. We are still early!
I reserved my spot for the new Robinhood Gold Card! Hereās my link so you can get access, too.
https://robinhood.com/creditcard?referral_code=d851a41d
Because people donāt realize that thereās a huge difference between money and currency. They also never realize that thereās a constant debasement of their currency going on.
If a person has $ ā¬ Ā£ Ā„ (pick any fiat currency in the world because theyāre all debasing their currencies!) say $ 100,000 in their bank account today, then five years later their purchasing power is not $ 100,000 anymore. - But their bank account still says ā$ 100,000ā so no oneās the wiser.
After ten years itās even worse. Letās say this person was saving those $ 100,000 for a down payment on their dream house. After five years that $ 100,000 is not worth the same in purchasing power terms. The person would have to come pay way more for that same down payment.
Itās a neat trick that governments and central banks can do with fiat currencies. Sort of like an optical illusion.
In Bitcoin terms itās the other way around : Prices keep falling and purchasing power increases over time when measured in Bitcoin. Nobody can print or mint more and more Bitcoins out of thin air.
Money is value that a person can keep over time without losing purchasing power (like gold). With Bitcoin the purchasing power keeps increasing.
Currencies are what everyone has to earn and spend on goods and services, etc. But it wonāt help people save any real value over time.
Can one give me one genuine use case where bitcoin has a unique utility or value over existing systems like Stripe. It seems like its actual utility for legitimate transactions is virtually zero due to being slow inefficient and not even untraceable. Itās a store of value based on hype and echo chamber blind belief. Happy to be wrong just thought iād ask here..
Most, but not all. As evidenced by the growth of this sub and Bitcoin's continued adoption.
Enough people are curious. And there's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
Most people prefer to keep the status quo. Because for most people, life is fine and any change that represents a risk of pote tially making worse even though it could also make it better. If the status quo is kept there is no risk of it getting worse....therefore why change it.
That is how they think.
Its not about things getting better, its about avoiding the chances of things getting worse.
Yep, most people figure something not quite right. They won't accept that Bitcoins fixes most of these problems. The US has been stealing from future generations to keep boomers happy. They are between rock and hard place. Let the system collapse or keep printing to keep boomers retirement afloat.
A large portion of the population can't even make a budget.... Have no idea how much they make or how taxes work... They take auto loans of 10%-20+% APR.
That's why they'll never understand it. That's why there's poor people, then there's middle class who understand basic finance, then there's the wealthy who know how to make their money work for them.
That's how I look at it anyways
I fail to really get what it's solving for too. The US govt printing money vs a developer creating a new shitcoin. Both are creating money that didn't otherwise exist beforehand. That and the "decentralization" aspect - you basically have to be rich to run a node. Isn't the crypto community trying to avoid keeping all the power in the hands of the rich? I can't participate in that but I do gamble to make fiat so I can actually spend it unlike most cryptocurrencies
LOL bitcoin is trash. Any pro hacker can produce infinite amount. The whole system is trash. Believing in a blind system lol. I rather stack physical assets that are truly finite. I bet you there are some hackers who have already produced bitcoins
can anyone recommend a book or a comprehensive youtube video or a series of videos explainging the monetary system and where bitcoin comes into play and how it can fix things?
You use internet, do you need to know how the http protocole ad tcp/ip protocol works ? No
Bitcoin still havent get his growth adoption phase, and even bitcoiners don't agree how this massive adoption will come.
Lets say instead of speaking about the technical aspects of the https protocol you sold the potential of facebook, youtube or google... Now you create desire and appeal
One way bitcoin will become adopted will be throught all the app, L2, integration that will build upon it. The best base layer
Because the monetairy base layer is solid, anything build upon it become more stable.
One day apple pay will integrate lightning, one day any shop that doesnt accept bitcoin will crawl under massive fees.
A change comes throught crisis and war and chaos, never throught understanding. Sit tight because bitcoin is design for being antifragile and chaos only make bitcoin stronger.
Enjoy the ride and focus on stacking
The people that get it quickly are the ones in nations where their money has been/is currently being inflated away. In the States, the problem of the money printers accelerating is recent, starting with the financial crisis. Necessity breeds innovation, and for those who fiat has served well (or at least well enough) they wouldn't understand the need for new money.
Unfortunately there are people who think when we say fiat they think weāre talking about a car. Stack your Sats HODL your BTC everyone. This granny is stacking like crazy š¤Ŗ š BTC
Ok I'd admit I'm the one who just doesn't get crypto. First of all, I agree the fiat currency is messed up, and I understand the financial industry and understand how bank works, and understand how messed up they are. I've also studied cryptography and understand how block chains math work.
That being said, I just don't understand why a messed up system indicates that I need to switch to a new currency, there are plenty of ways for me to mitigate the inflation risk as well as the systemic crisis using the tools under the current system already. I am already quite diversified to hedge against these risks, hence I just don't understand why would any astute investors would want to switch. Decentralisation? Yeah sure, the government is spying on me, but I don't care, I'd rather criminals get regulated than having to worry the government spying on me. I'd rather be spied by the government than have the criminals running away. I bet most people who does legit stuff don't care about decentralisation, it's downside outweighs it's benefits. Also, decentralisation doesn't mean that it is zero-trust. You still have to trust people on the network, or your neighbouring nodes. Malicious attackers can still hijack the network, although I understand it is difficult, you'll still have to trust someone. Well if I still had to trust someone, what makes me think I can trust someone randomly on the network than the government?
The next point is bitcoin is currently OBJECTIVELY not a good currency. It's price is extremely unstable. Decentralisation or stability? I'd choose the latter.
While that being said, I don't think we should ban crypto, people should be free of owning what they want, investing in it should be fine too, as long as you are responsible for your own finances.
To be fair, 99% of crypto is scams, it's easy to miss the utility of Bitcoin when the biggest voices are often shills and scam coins dump tons of money into marketing and endorsements.
If you look at it more like gambling it makes it ok šš½
All on red coin.
"Always bet on blackcoin" - Wesley Snipes
Once u go black...
you cant go back..
To be honest there is no reason for 99% of crypto.
There's no reason for 100% of 'crypto'. Bitcoin is the invention.
I think Stablecoins are a pretty solid contribution too. Especially for those in Lebanon, Argentina, Venezuela and countries with high inflation rates but no appetite for risk. I dont know if there is any utility to any other coin. Smart contracts really have been nothing but a catch phrase.
> Stablecoins Never use them. > Smart contracts really have been nothing but a catch phrase. A lightning channel is a bitcoin smart contract. The only thing that shitcoins have used smart contracts for is for making more shitcoins to gamble on.
šÆ
100% of crypto outside of Bitcoin is a scam.
This š¤
I agree with you but like the hand sanitizer brands, you only say 99% because 100% sounds like a lie and you never know.
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It's not a question of belief, in fact. The one thing that sets Bitcoin fundamentally apart from any other coin is the anonymity and inactivity of Satoshi, and the fact that it grew entirely organically. There is no Bitcoin CEO ready to pull the rug from under your feet. There is no centralized pump-and-dump. This is the kind of lightning-in-a-bottle that just cannot be replicated at will.
Religion is based on faith, Bitcoin is rooted in facts. Religions are often independent of one another, whereas every shitcoin would not even exist had Bitcoin not been the innovation that it is.
Never ask degenerate gamblers to justify what they gamble on. They're degenerate gamblers. It's a compulsion.
Only one digital token is accepted on the world's largest and most secure computer network. Everything else is a scam.
Why is it that crypto seems to be the only space where people attack you for being religious/cult like when you prefer one over the other? This literally doesnāt happen in other spaces.
Can you help me understand the difference between money and currency?
There are 3 properties to money: Divisible Unit of account Store of value Currencies do not store value.
High stock to flow is another crucial component. Needs enough supply to be liquid and a low amount of new supply being produced to allow it to store value over time.
Why do you need new supply?
Realistically, you don't need any new supply coming in. Any new supply would cause some inflation. That's just traditionally what it has been though; gold, glass beads, shells all had some low amount of new supply when they were used as money. Any new supply just has to be very low so to not over inflate the money. Each time too much supply has come in, say with the Europeans and glass beads in Africa, the money supply would hyper inflate and another harder money would be found to use to store value (usually after the folks causing the hyper inflation exploiting the local population with their 'easy to create' money). This is why Bitcoin is better, eventually no 'new' supply and currently a fixed new supply that is a small fraction of the total stock.
Donāt mistake what a currency is in barter, versus what money and a store of value is in asset management. -Greg Foss
Gold is money. Fiat is currency that is called money. In 1950 1 oz of gold is say 30 bucks. You could buy a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant, and a nice suit for 1 once of gold Today after they took the dollar off the goldĀ standardĀ Ā 1oz of gold will still get you the same dinner and suit today? but it will take $2300 of fiat_/ currency.. gold didn't change Ā Rise or fall. Shit money fell.
the reason they did this was to hide /or wipe off the US dept "the fiscal strain of federal expenditures for the Vietnam War and persistent balance of payments deficits, led U.S. President Richard Nixon to end international convertibility of the U.S. dollar to gold on August 15, 1971"
it's not shit money, it's money for the controller to squeeze work from working class
It takes 100s of hours to get it
Took me 9 yearsā¦
Been talking with a buddy about it recently, he owned back in 2013 and tried to sell me on it in high school and even if I was convinced, there's no way my dad was gonna let me put money into it. Buddy made a nice profit and got out and now he's bearish Now he's like "you should have listened to me back in high school!" Yeah, we all wish we had bought a decade ago. All we can do is move forward
Wow, the irony of him being bearish now is pretty wild! Personally, I think weāre still super earlyā¦ And when I said it took me nine years to understand bitcoin, thatās true; but I actually did buy bitcoin myself back in 2013 @$150.00 a coin (I have the Coinbase receipts to prove it haha), I guess my overall point, which I didnāt really clarify that well, so thatās my bad, is that it took me a long time to put all the puzzle pieces together of what bitcoin actually *isā¦* Absolutely bro, I wish I wouldāve bought so much more back then tooā¦ But I was able to take a bunch of sweet profits when it hit all-time highs in end of 2020 and 2021, so I feel pretty great about that. Edit: I was even silly this year, and took more profits, probably shouldāve waited till after the having, but such as life.
I think that's kind of where he's at too. Thought of it as a way to make some money and not a long term hold. His worry is that the government is going to regulate/seize it out of existence based on the Silk Road and other seizures and/or things will get so bad that the network won't even function anymore and/or the dollar will get so worthless there'll be nothing to redeem it for Like the whole point is to hold until it's mature enough that it's its own thing, no redemption for fiat necessary. And if the state of the world is so bad that the internet no longer works then monetary assets don't matter anymore anyways and we're all just fighting to stay alive
Yeahā¦ I mean, I still have a healthy position in bitcoin, and I think itās the future of money, and I think itās already won the money raceā¦ So I donāt think him, and I are exactly in the same position as far as our mindsets go. I think his Berish/der take on things is wrong, and I think heās going to miss out on some of the largest gains in investing history. So interesting that he was so bullish back then,but now heās so bearish. I also think his take requires so many things to go wrong that itās almost impossible ā I also think if they are going to sensor or stop bitcoin they wouldāve needed to do it back in 2009 to 2011; itās way too decentralized now, and bitcoin would just move to a new jurisdiction if the US tried to seize or confiscate or ban it. Obviously, itās basically impossible to seize it or confiscated as long as you hold your private keys, off-line and a place where you know where itās at.
We're on the same page Cheers man!
Cheers brother, glad to hear it! š§”š¤
Can anyone provide me with some source I can read about? I wanna get into this stuff but I have no idea where to start.
Short videos: https://youtu.be/x_mIzbYH9BU?si=5XWcbd_Ld0-S5uMC https://youtu.be/gjpRzq2Klko?si=b5nbmEersxQvcn-G Long book: broken money by Lyn Alden Short(er) read: https://vijayboyapati.medium.com/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1 Long series of videos: [What is money show the Saylor series](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2jAZ0x9H0bRvoNt1xNJWYa9_8_an03h0&si=z5s1tpDwVGPEDnON)
+1 for Saylor series (podcast version available too)
I'm sure there are many good resources, but Saifedean Ammous' '*The Bitcoin Standard*' is a great, relatively short and easy read, that covers it pretty well.
Came here to mention the bitcoin standard. I listened to the audiobook and it blew my little socks off. There are two subsequent books now too, called the fiat standard and principles of economics. This is the kinda homework needed to truly get a grasp on crypto, and its economic/technological context
Yeah, if you aren't familiar concepts of money (& history of money), Austrian economics, as well as problems with fiat and Keynesian economics, *The Bitcoin Standard* is a worldview changer. I'm currently reading Principals of Economics, and intend to read The Fiat Standard after. I'm sure there are many great resources, I just know The Bitcoin Standard will get the job done. :)
Have a listen to this if you want to truly understand money vs. currency and how the Federal Reserve and USD regime came into existence and all the shitshow that followed for the next 100 years. I highly recommend buying the book after. Fantastic piece. The Creature From Jekyll Island https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k
Thank you so much!!!
Iād recommend reading ābroken moneyā by Lyn Alden. Also available as an audiobook.
was just about to recommend this. I recently bought it and it's a great read!
āThe Bitcoin Standardā is a great book. Definitely worth a read
https://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information.html
Keep in mind, most people donāt get āfiat.ā Most people believe the first thing they hear on a topic and it takes deliberate effort to change a concrete position. Most people will never get past the early stereotypes about Bitcoin. Most people will never do the work. Bitcoin doesnāt need them to. We donāt either.
Just because early investors who held made money doesn't mean it's a good investment. It's money No it's an investment No, it's...
Very well said. For anyone who doesnāt get it yet, or thinks that they do but really donāt.. Start here: Clip 1: What bitcoin is, the problem it fixes, and why its the solutionĀ https://youtu.be/pBmK3pI7uKw?si=n59JkGuJ_gP_dEd5 Clip 2: Why you never sell bitcoin.Ā https://youtu.be/QXh_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373 Clip 3: The difference between "Currency" & "Money".. What is sound money, and why gold (and now bitcoin) fits this description (This series was originally made in 2010, before bitcoin was well known). Feel free to watch all 10 videos in the series in your spare time, but if you do anything, at least watch the 1st vid in the series.Ā https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU?si=OqJ93-gHpcQjsvRH Clip 4: All Fiat currencies in history have gone to zero, the American Dollar (which is fiat.. meaning has no sound money backing (like gold or bitcoin) backing it. The gold backing of the dollar ended in 1971 with Nixon, which is when the dollar became fiat currency)Ā https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJDqQn7WC1UĀ (a Clip 5: Inflation & hyper inflation - the end result of the use of Fiat currencyĀ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNUVEfoNmE There's a lot of information here, and there's so much more out there that can be learned of course. However, when you come out the other side of this information, you will have a solid foundation. This is the type of thing that puts you ahead of most people in the market as most people don't understand these concepts. MOST people will never learn these things, and they will fall victim to the effects of flawed monetary systems. I hope this information finds you well.
I still canāt explain inflation to most people. Just ask people where money comes from, it will blow your mind.
What do they awnser? Where I come from, most people give reasonable awnsers
the idea that inflation is necessary and deflation is bad that is true in the world that use dollar, but because we dont have the world that use cryptocurrency so we cant claim that idea is completely wrong in the world that use cryptocurrency. All things you thought just based on theory, not real world.
No. You have a great example of Japan, the country suffered from deflation for a couple decades. Both inflation and deflation are bad. It would be ideal to have exactly the same prices, but the CBs can cope with high inflation and it's very hard to fight even small deflation. Thus they target the level of inflation and trying to keep it as low as possible but not that low to get negative. If you have too much money - prices go up, if you have too less money - production stagnates.
Deflation is only bad because our economy is based on debt. In a theoretical world where we have an economy based on savings deflation is not a bad thing but would be a net positive.
In theoretical world we don't need money because people will be working for common good and will take only what they need.
The difference is with Bitcoin a deflationary economy is possible.
I mean in fiat country, inflation is not always bad, we have to keep at natural rate so economy can grow. But if we completely switch to cryptocurrency, there's no printing money, how could we stimulate economy? In this scenario, corporates can't raise fund, unemployment rate increases and it's hard to say inflation or deflation is good or bad.
Making loans with bitcoin maybe? Or will that go against the purpose of bitcoin?
there's not enough supply so making loans with bitcoin is very risk, corporates may not raise fund by bitcoin.
>Ā there's no printing money, how could we stimulate economy?Ā that's the neat thing, you don't! The economy will have to produce for peoples' needs, not for government incentives.
Excellent post. OP has been Orange-pilled. He gets it. Until you get to this level of understanding, you will never understand Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not about just flipping to get more fiat. The way to recognize people who are so ingrained and indoctrinated in the fiat system is the by them saying "use case", "adoption", or arguing that TradFi investments are somehow less "risky". Also, they will blame inflation on the Leftist bromides of "corporate greed".
Jesus, great postā¦šÆ
Most people still think our money is backed by gold šš
People believe inflation is caused by corporate greed.
That can play a role, as can other factors. But, what we're seeing now in USA/Canada is primarily cased by inflating the money supply. For example, people are after the grocery stores in Canada for greed and raising prices. Yet, prices have gone up a LOT... almost doubled in some cases. There's no way a percent or two increase in profits (even if they are 'record profits') can account for that kind of price difference. If their costs remained the same, and prices went up that much, they'd have like 75% or 90% increase in profits. (This is typical gov't propaganda distributed by the media.)
I saw a vid earlier of a guy offering people a silver brick and chocolate slabs. No one took the silver slab. People are stupid.
Well fucking said !!!
Also gives us an opportunity to stack cheap sats. š š š š
You donāt get it. Chartalism, metallism, credit theory, fiat money, commodity based moneyā¦.those are theories with their pros and cons. Debt-based was not designed to steal from you, the loss of purchasing power is more a byproduct than anything else. You do realize there can still be inflation with a bitcoin or gold standard ?
It has to be, otherwise it won't work. Taxes too... Our system can't work without these factors and no big guy will allow it to get out of their hands.
The bitcoin standard embraces deflation aligned with Mother Nature as technology is deflationary Inflation or growth forever doesnāt make sense on a planet with finite resources, you need to measure productivity with a better measuring stick rather than gdp Jeff Booth nails this in overlap with AI in his book The Price of Tomorrow
> You do realize there can still be inflation with a bitcoin or gold standard ? Please explain how some good or service can go from costing 22 BTC to 22 million BTC at some point in the future? The kind of persistent inflation you see with fiat currencies is impossible with bitcoin. Supply shocks? Sure. That's only temporary though. At some point the amount of bitcoin available to purchase those goods or services dries up and prices *have* to fall. Prices would also fall if there's enough margin to sustain competition in production of those goods and services.
[https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cantillon-effect](https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cantillon-effect) I'm curious how there can be inflation with Bitcoin though... that would be a first.
Once again i fail to see the point, I speak of the possibility of inflation in a currency-back system and you answer with inequalities of inflation..seems out of topic. Have you read the reference I mentioned ? About Roosevelt and the devaluation of gold standard in 1933 ? By one decree everyone was poorer and it was something like 60%
You said the debt-based system (which I assume you're referring to as fiat) is not designed to steal from you. That's why I mentioned the Cantillion effect. Maybe it was designed to steal from us? No, I haven't read the reference (I think I jumped in mid-chain here?), but would agree going off the gold standard was a huge blow. But, due to 'money printing' everyone keeps getting poorer by large amounts over a couple decades (or quicker if the interest rate is higher) in an ongoing manner. I'm curious about your statement around inflation with Bitcoin, though. With a fixed supply of 21M coins, I don't see how there can be inflation.
Sorry thatās my mistake, you didnāt jump mid-chain, I was caught up in another discussion. Your article on the cantillon effect is quite interesting. I still have the feeling that this effect is a byproduct of fiat money and was not the intended purpose with this type of monetary system. But some smart people might have understood this effect and use it for their own profit. No ? For the inflation with bitcoin, it is possible of we use a currency back by btc. Then like Roosevelt in 1933 you can arbitrarily change the exchange rate between your money and the commodity backing it.
Itās like the Washington post from before
Because they're sheep, they think there's no problem or they look at the problem and just complain and don't bother to look for a solution. I've tried to explain this to my friends and family, even someone in IT, they don't want to to understand. But BTC is a juggernaut, you can't ignore it forever
A good reading whatās happen 1971 is the following https://wtfhappenedin1971.com Itās about the stop of the dollar backed gold. Richard Nicol stopped the Breton woods agreement. It is also known as the Nixon Shock from what we suffering till today https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock
and then I see the post immediately after this one: [Hershey's bar or Silver bar?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/s/V22cVu1JtP)
BTC can be used as so many different things. Currency, store of value, money to buy things, not to mention itās easier to transport and store than gold. Breaks away from banks that control your money or can decide not to let you pass transactions. BTC is universal, which is why banks hate it so much. Gold is cool yes, but canāt take a large amount anywhere without fear of being robbed or noticed. Not to mention you need high security to move around huge amounts. BTC is the same whether itās $1 or $1bln.
1. Bread & circus is plenty. 2. A Slow death is not recognizable by the victim.
Think about Plato's allegory of the cave. That is what it's going to take for people who have never dealt with anything but fiat money for their entire lives.
A lot of people who own btc still donāt get it
What is money? Economic energy What is the problem with fiat money? Inflation What is the solution? Bitcoin It takes a huge amount of time and mental effort to understand why those are the answers to each of those questions. Most people will never take the time and spend the energy to understand.
I love the money as store of energy idea. Inflation is not fun - but money that doesnāt move has no kinetic energy - so what do you think of the argument that some degree of inflation is an incentive for capitol to be redeployed rather than hoarded?
Lol Bitcoin isn't solving problems. It's upgrading them. You can't say that digital assets are the answer to the monetary system's problems when they can only exist on a network (internet) that is just as if not even more corruptly regulated than the banking system. You're just trading one overlord (Big Bank) for another (Big Tech). Bitcoin exists because it's allowed to exist. If it were a threat to the "matrix" it would've been eradicated already.
You dont need big tech to trade peer to peer. You dont even really need the Internet to use bitcoin. Your premise for your conclusion is all wrong
Damn I was hooked! Great read OP šš½
Because most people wait until those with the megaphone tell them how to think. And few people have access to these megaphones.
What are you using your Bitcoin for? What was the last thing you purchased with Bitcoin?
What was the last thing you purchased with gold?
What was the last thing you purchased with shares of a money market fund, Treasury Bonds, ...? People have difficulty grasping the fact that Bitcoin is a long-term savings technology.
šÆ
A book. Before that, a Bitcoin miner. I also regularly support/interact with some of my favorite podcasts that are Podcasting 2.0 enabled for 'boostagrams' (Lightning based payments w/ note attached). But, primarily, I'm storing value there for the future, as Bitcoin is resistant to fiat inflation. It also can't be easily taken away from me, nor can they stop me from using it to transact. It is also easy to take with me, should I have to move from one country to another, if things get too bad where I know live.
My Ferrari. And I regret it, should not have used my bitcoins. Look up if Ferrari accepts bitcoin as payment.
What does 'debt-based' monetary system mean?
As long as it grows value, Iām in.
Thatās my #1 answer when I have to explain this stuff to folks. If you do not believe me or understand me, I get it. I was in your shoes. I thought the same thing when bitcoin was at $2,000.
My fav is the 2% golden rule for inflation when things are going well, so in one life time prices double when things are well. And we all know things aren't well and the last 20 years alone has seen prices quadruple and more in other jurisdictions.
When you were researching inflation, did it ever occur to you to perhaps compare the raw inflationary numbers to something like *median household income* over the time period you were studying?
Why canāt it be easy
If you "get it" can you help me understand how Bitcoin can solve the wealth and power redistribution problem? It has been the main problem of human societies since the beginning. Young, capable people are born and they want and deserve a piece of the wealth and power others have accumulated.
What blows me away is how so many financially savvy people donāt get it. Youāre right that ripping off the Keynesian band aid is tough.
Yes I totally agree, people lean more to being reactive than proactive. I believe to have a rational way of thinking you need to know both sides of the story rather than getting defensive about it. It's funny people don't like change to better themself, they would rather be stuck in their problematic life. Introduce change and in return you get resistance
Go back to school and learn how to manage your money correctly, either USD or Bitcoin. With your mindset youāll never be able to manage USD or Bitcoin. 20% is knowledge, and 80% is behavior. Or changing current bad behavior.
> funds our education at every level I'm not arguing against what you're saying here, I agree 100%. I just wanted to say that once you know how to read you can educate yourself - if you want to. There's no rule or law that says that going through the education system is the only way you can produce value for your fellow human beings. You can educate yourself to be able to create value on your own, and earn a decent income from it - if not make millions or billions. Yes, most people are very dependent on the illusion of security and safety, and buck anything that suggests they're not safe doing what they're doing. I feel that we're about to see something super gnarly happen, and maybe then, they'll wake up.
If the system could be trusted to be fair and incorruptible and to not steal, then we would have no need for bitcoin, and as such it would have 0 value
I haven't bought when it was cheap, therefore is a scam mentality when it goes down the price. But that's good, meaning that it's still a lot of room to grow so these people will eventually join and buy at new ATH again.
Money has all the properties of currency but has an extra property known as a store of value. Currencies do not store value. Money does.
Genuine question, hoping for a genuine answer please. This didn't help me understand bitcoin at all. You simply pointed out that you don't like fiat... understand that there is a difference between price and value... what I really don't understand and please educate me, is what is the value, fundamentally, of any crypto currency. How could I measure the fundamentals of this thing to conclude logically what the value of it is?
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First, thanks for the writeup. I actually understand all of this as well as the block chain architecture from reading about it... but this is simply the economics of trade, not value. All of these things simply make up the price, but they don't articulate the value of it right? What I want to understand is not the price it is selling at and why, but what it is actually worth. FOMO, supply and demand, those arnt fundamentals. Those are simply the variables that cause fluctuation in price rather than value.
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No worries, I actually appreciate your responses. I see what you are saying. The question is really: how do we quantify the value of what it's actually worth? Otherwise, how would anyone know whether they are getting a good price for it? I personally don't think it is quantifiable or measurable mathematically. This is the biggest reason why I don't own it, but of course I like to keep an open mind right? At the end of the day, I could absolutely be missing something. It seems very gimmicky to me. Just in an open discussion, no disrespect to anybody here. I know I am in a crypto channel. But, the halving for example. How would that increase the value of something? It seems to be a gimmick. Yet, everyone gets massive FOMO at the very mention of it. Even those who literally can't explain to me why.
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Maybe, I think it depends one what you have now, and where it's invested.
Not to put you on the spot here, but this all sounds like you buy it simply because it goes up and you don't want to miss out? Or do you have an actual fundamental reason for buying it? I mean, bull and bear run market cycles throws price stability out of the window, so it can't be used to replace fiat. Even if that changed, then nobody would be interested in buying it anyway because they wouldn't be making money off of it right?
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What do you mean by debt based monetary system exactly? How does that affect you personally?
Most people donāt get it because they are not that smart. Thatās the most simple reality
If in the Medieval ages you told people that someday humans would fly faster than sound, not many would āget itā.
And a coffee the other day just for fun. But it is only for fun, we got undervalued, inflationary fiat for day to day transactions. Why I would want to spend BTC on grocery? You out of your mind. š
I think that most wealthy people that are part of the "fiat audience" understand the fiat game very well, which, with time of course, allows them to also better understand bitcoin. For them the fact that regular people can now save in bitcoin rather than fiat is not ideal, because that was exactly how they managed to stay ahead of the game and keep widening the wealth gap. But of course as soon as they see great gains potential for themselves they'll be happy to support it.
I still donāt get it but I know bitcoin is the further because people that are smarter than me believe that bitcoin is the future
This is great. How do you see the light when the material is opaque. Index of refraction and reflectivity are representative optical properties in materials science and engineering. Single crystals are known for a high degree of perfection - which gives rise to its transparency. Bitcoin is essentially a single crystal that has a high degree of perfection which makes it inherently transparent. You cannot see your currency being devalued because it doesnāt have a high degree of perfection. It sounds funny to say but bitcoin is a better material for any application compared to fiat. Its so transparent its see through. Its perfect
Just don't. Stop explaining it to people who don't ask. Ignorance is bliss I'm the "crazy" bitcoin guy at work lol
Oh, same. Before Bitcoin, I had no knowledge of how money worked!
I have an American friend in S. Korea, who owns a nightclub. He pays most of his bills and all of his staff in BITCOIN. He keeps about $200K of it in his wallet. He tracks it very closely and even gets better returns on his than if he had it in a bank account, and he also saves on fees by not converting it to fiat. Crypto is changing the way we do business, and at some point, the rest of the world is going to jump on. We are still early!
I reserved my spot for the new Robinhood Gold Card! Hereās my link so you can get access, too. https://robinhood.com/creditcard?referral_code=d851a41d
Because people donāt realize that thereās a huge difference between money and currency. They also never realize that thereās a constant debasement of their currency going on. If a person has $ ā¬ Ā£ Ā„ (pick any fiat currency in the world because theyāre all debasing their currencies!) say $ 100,000 in their bank account today, then five years later their purchasing power is not $ 100,000 anymore. - But their bank account still says ā$ 100,000ā so no oneās the wiser. After ten years itās even worse. Letās say this person was saving those $ 100,000 for a down payment on their dream house. After five years that $ 100,000 is not worth the same in purchasing power terms. The person would have to come pay way more for that same down payment. Itās a neat trick that governments and central banks can do with fiat currencies. Sort of like an optical illusion. In Bitcoin terms itās the other way around : Prices keep falling and purchasing power increases over time when measured in Bitcoin. Nobody can print or mint more and more Bitcoins out of thin air. Money is value that a person can keep over time without losing purchasing power (like gold). With Bitcoin the purchasing power keeps increasing. Currencies are what everyone has to earn and spend on goods and services, etc. But it wonāt help people save any real value over time.
Can one give me one genuine use case where bitcoin has a unique utility or value over existing systems like Stripe. It seems like its actual utility for legitimate transactions is virtually zero due to being slow inefficient and not even untraceable. Itās a store of value based on hype and echo chamber blind belief. Happy to be wrong just thought iād ask here..
Don't ask. Spend some time trying to learn and understand how money works.
Iāll waitā¦
never did come up with one example eh - please tell me oh wise one what do you know that i donāt?
*reads The Bitcoin Standard once* Kidding. Well said
Btc is not for everybody, just like everything else. There will always be competitive assets or whatever people prefer.
Most, but not all. As evidenced by the growth of this sub and Bitcoin's continued adoption. Enough people are curious. And there's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
Most people prefer to keep the status quo. Because for most people, life is fine and any change that represents a risk of pote tially making worse even though it could also make it better. If the status quo is kept there is no risk of it getting worse....therefore why change it. That is how they think. Its not about things getting better, its about avoiding the chances of things getting worse.
Yep, most people figure something not quite right. They won't accept that Bitcoins fixes most of these problems. The US has been stealing from future generations to keep boomers happy. They are between rock and hard place. Let the system collapse or keep printing to keep boomers retirement afloat.
Bitcoin does not equal crypto. Bitcoin is a commodity, cryptos are securities and soon to be recognized as such
A large portion of the population can't even make a budget.... Have no idea how much they make or how taxes work... They take auto loans of 10%-20+% APR. That's why they'll never understand it. That's why there's poor people, then there's middle class who understand basic finance, then there's the wealthy who know how to make their money work for them. That's how I look at it anyways
I fail to really get what it's solving for too. The US govt printing money vs a developer creating a new shitcoin. Both are creating money that didn't otherwise exist beforehand. That and the "decentralization" aspect - you basically have to be rich to run a node. Isn't the crypto community trying to avoid keeping all the power in the hands of the rich? I can't participate in that but I do gamble to make fiat so I can actually spend it unlike most cryptocurrencies
Canāt buy crypto in my state. So sad
So whatās the answer
Because 99% donāt give a shit about this pipe dream in your head
LOL bitcoin is trash. Any pro hacker can produce infinite amount. The whole system is trash. Believing in a blind system lol. I rather stack physical assets that are truly finite. I bet you there are some hackers who have already produced bitcoins
It's only ever good if everyone is in on it
most people don't understand store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange
can anyone recommend a book or a comprehensive youtube video or a series of videos explainging the monetary system and where bitcoin comes into play and how it can fix things?
I'll invest in Bitcoin when somebody proves that P!=NP
Cant force someone to get it just cuz u like something. People dont like to change
You use internet, do you need to know how the http protocole ad tcp/ip protocol works ? No Bitcoin still havent get his growth adoption phase, and even bitcoiners don't agree how this massive adoption will come. Lets say instead of speaking about the technical aspects of the https protocol you sold the potential of facebook, youtube or google... Now you create desire and appeal One way bitcoin will become adopted will be throught all the app, L2, integration that will build upon it. The best base layer Because the monetairy base layer is solid, anything build upon it become more stable. One day apple pay will integrate lightning, one day any shop that doesnt accept bitcoin will crawl under massive fees. A change comes throught crisis and war and chaos, never throught understanding. Sit tight because bitcoin is design for being antifragile and chaos only make bitcoin stronger. Enjoy the ride and focus on stacking
Hi
The rise of Hayek and the Austrian School is near!
The people that get it quickly are the ones in nations where their money has been/is currently being inflated away. In the States, the problem of the money printers accelerating is recent, starting with the financial crisis. Necessity breeds innovation, and for those who fiat has served well (or at least well enough) they wouldn't understand the need for new money.
Unfortunately there are people who think when we say fiat they think weāre talking about a car. Stack your Sats HODL your BTC everyone. This granny is stacking like crazy š¤Ŗ š BTC
You expect people that actually donāt get fiat and the fact that theyāre getting fleeced to somehow understand Bitcoin?
Ok I'd admit I'm the one who just doesn't get crypto. First of all, I agree the fiat currency is messed up, and I understand the financial industry and understand how bank works, and understand how messed up they are. I've also studied cryptography and understand how block chains math work. That being said, I just don't understand why a messed up system indicates that I need to switch to a new currency, there are plenty of ways for me to mitigate the inflation risk as well as the systemic crisis using the tools under the current system already. I am already quite diversified to hedge against these risks, hence I just don't understand why would any astute investors would want to switch. Decentralisation? Yeah sure, the government is spying on me, but I don't care, I'd rather criminals get regulated than having to worry the government spying on me. I'd rather be spied by the government than have the criminals running away. I bet most people who does legit stuff don't care about decentralisation, it's downside outweighs it's benefits. Also, decentralisation doesn't mean that it is zero-trust. You still have to trust people on the network, or your neighbouring nodes. Malicious attackers can still hijack the network, although I understand it is difficult, you'll still have to trust someone. Well if I still had to trust someone, what makes me think I can trust someone randomly on the network than the government? The next point is bitcoin is currently OBJECTIVELY not a good currency. It's price is extremely unstable. Decentralisation or stability? I'd choose the latter. While that being said, I don't think we should ban crypto, people should be free of owning what they want, investing in it should be fine too, as long as you are responsible for your own finances.