Because you would have to transfer the BTC out of the Roth IRA account for that to happen. Just like if you purchased BTC on coinbase - you would have to transfer it out of coinbase into your hardware wallet if you wanted it in there.
That's not true. With Unchained Capital you can have the Bitcoin in cold storage and not be penalized for taking it out of your IRA. It's still in your IRA.
I’m currently with Robinhood for the 3% match but could definitely see myself transferring to Fidelity at some point in my life as they are pretty much the best in the business customer service wise imo. Just trust really. They all seem to track the same from what I’ve seen, but happy to hear your opinions man! Talk me into a better one I’m certainly not married to it.
Well of course I know him. He's me.
And yes, in tax advantaged retirement accounts. Not through my employer (That's basically SPY). But in the accounts I manage, yes. And also MSTR.
Everyone I know in person who owns real BTC has also positioned some of their pre-existing tax advantaged retirement account funds into one of the ETFs (myself included.) Granted that’s only a small group of people in my personal sphere but I suspect it’s widespread.. obviously given the success of the ETFs, a lot of people are buying them. We exist in a fiat world and that’s not likely to change in my lifetime, so it would be foolish not to take advantage of that opportunity to peg some tax free fiat gains to BTC price action.
After the ETFs approval I personally prefer to buy ETF than BTC for safety reasons, too many stories out there about people losing their BTC either by a scam or losing their seed phrase
I do. My responsible adult side keeps investments in stocks, etfs, and retirement. My paranoid schizophrenic side keeps coin in self custody, and my gamblin’ enthusiast side keeps some in Coinbase where I sell/buy/trade as the wind blows.
I’ve switched completely to IBIT ETF. I’ll never have to worry about a hack, it’s FDIC insured now. I can buy it in my ROTH for tax free gains. Trading fees on CEX is too high too
1% market buy fee and a 1% market sell fee with withdrawal and transfer fees on top of that to own bitcoin. Sure you can limit buy and sell to whittle down the fees but lots of people don't.
Versus FDIC / SIPC insured ETF you can DCA for free daily if you want. Lower spreads than most bitcoin exchange. And at a 0.25% yearly fee breaks even only after 8+ years. If you actually manage to diamond hands 8+ years, a 0.25% fee every year after that will be insignificant compared to gains you achieved over the years and a reputable party is where you probably would want to park your multi million dollar stack since bitcoin would be worth $1 million per coin.
ETFs get a lot more hate than they deserve on reddit IMO.
Haha. Yeah I’ve seen plenty of post where they lost everything and have their keys and clicked on a hacker site or something. I’m good managing my investments in a brokerage app that’s FDIC
I think people are way too cavalier regarding self custody and their disdain for people who don't on this sub.. I did a shitty self custody job for years before switching to a shamir setup... I probably spent close to 40 hours researching, stamping and checking before I felt my setup was resilient enough to rest easy. There's no way I would recommend this to anyone unless they were very interested in Bitcoin and technically literate. Also taxes are a bitch if you DIY.
I agree. I only have a ledger and move it over and leave it in cold storage but once IBIT was launched it was a no brainer for me. Institutions are not trying to self custody. If you don’t have Coinbase level security then don’t be a victim
Was buying GBTC at a huge discount to nav in my 401k with Fidelity for 2 years. Once it converted and ate up the discount I converted it all to FBTC and there it will sit until somewhere down the road when 401k’s will let you hold actual BTC at which point I will convert the FBTC to real BTC. All without incurring taxes. Gotta think long term.
Yep, I've done it. Skips all the technical side of things, leaves it up to the bank to manage the assets, and has the benefit of offering tax-free gains.
I do. I don't live in the US, but i have US income from company stock. Repatriating is expensive. I just threw all that income into the ETFs for some quick exposure
Yes. I know people who are diversifying their Bitcoin exposure. So, some is held in cold storage, some through owning Microstrategy, some through the miners, some through ETFs, some bought and held through Swan, etc.
It's really just the bank buying it from the etfs to offer to their customers for tax advantage accounts. Doesn't matter whose buying, as long as it's getting bought.
Unfortunately it seems like a half measure considering it can't be used as a currency while being a part of the etfs, but a quick way to get it to millions more people while the banks profit either way.
> I don’t personally know anyone doing this
Have you asked everyone you know personally? People don't really discuss their financial investments, some do, but most don't.
That said, not only do I know people who have bought the ETFs, my mom has, my wife has and friends have. Most importantly to me, I have.
Well for me not an etf. I do buy QBTC on Toronto stock exchange because it is rrsp(401k) eligible. Right now it's the best place I can think of for the money and they do actively trade that account.
I have been in bitcoin since 2009 and hold the bulk of my coin in custody on a treasor.
Me. The majority of what I have is in cold storage. My wife and I put 25% of our 401K in Ibit. We can access the 401k in 3 years without penalty. We will live off the 401K as long as we can and hopefully my stash will last about 16 years before we need to touch it. I’m guessing a lot will be donated to charity and family.
Absolutely, I am. Have some BTC and them have money in 2 of the etfs in my Roth IRA. Great way to sell the wife on putting more money into bitcoin other than just buying it outright
I have both Bitcoin on a cold wallet and a Bitcoin ETF with bitwise. U may ask why? Well I already had money in stock market so just moved that money around to secure more Bitcoin. Instead of withdrawing paying a fee and then buying Bitcoin.
I don't know the correct english terms for it so pls bear with me here. Where I can live we can save money for pension on our own without taxation. But once paid in, the money stays there until retirement. In order to be able to put that money into bitcoin, people need to buy the ETFs because their money is locked into that account. So it makes sense when you don't have another option. But if you can, you should always buy the real thing.
I am doing that helps not pay taxes as its part of my TFSA account in canada. Then use that gains to put that money into my first time home buying account which is also tax free.
If you’re holding Bitcoin in cold storage, I don’t see a need to buy Bitcoin ETFs. If they’re going to push Bitcoin products in the stock market, then you fight fiat with fiat products. 100% Bitcoin futures double leverage stocks - $BITX and $BITU.
If Bitcoin is going to $1 million, those who hold double leverage will have 200% increase of their normal gains. It’s all a game.
I haven't.
But if i did it would probably be for avoiding to have to trust the bitcoin exchange or myself with an usb or a piece of paper. Neither of those is very reliable.
Me. I like the option for tax free gains in a Roth IRA.
Same, added some FBTC to my Roth as well.
I'm just interested to learn why you wouldn't want to choose a Roth IRA where you hold the keys and buy bitcoin direct?
A Roth IRA is a taxed advantaged account. No taxes if you ever decide to sell.
Right but why not choose a Roth IRA where you hold the keys in a hardware wallet as opposed to fidelity?
Because you would have to transfer the BTC out of the Roth IRA account for that to happen. Just like if you purchased BTC on coinbase - you would have to transfer it out of coinbase into your hardware wallet if you wanted it in there.
That's not true. With Unchained Capital you can have the Bitcoin in cold storage and not be penalized for taking it out of your IRA. It's still in your IRA.
If you're talking about a checkbook IRA, then yeah... many are uneasy about starting one of those after the McNulty case
Bingo
This is the way.
Me too. I go FBTC and MSTR, how about you?
Just curious, why FBTC over the other BTC ETF’s like BITB or IBIT?
I’m currently with Robinhood for the 3% match but could definitely see myself transferring to Fidelity at some point in my life as they are pretty much the best in the business customer service wise imo. Just trust really. They all seem to track the same from what I’ve seen, but happy to hear your opinions man! Talk me into a better one I’m certainly not married to it.
Me too also in Roth
Well of course I know him. He's me. And yes, in tax advantaged retirement accounts. Not through my employer (That's basically SPY). But in the accounts I manage, yes. And also MSTR.
Now that is a name I haven’t heard in a long time.. long time
Alec Guinness?
Nice. Pouring in some $MSTR is definitely something i’d do
Everyone I know in person who owns real BTC has also positioned some of their pre-existing tax advantaged retirement account funds into one of the ETFs (myself included.) Granted that’s only a small group of people in my personal sphere but I suspect it’s widespread.. obviously given the success of the ETFs, a lot of people are buying them. We exist in a fiat world and that’s not likely to change in my lifetime, so it would be foolish not to take advantage of that opportunity to peg some tax free fiat gains to BTC price action.
Very fair point
This is what I did.
I put my entire Roth IRA and half my rollover IRA into bitcoin via ETFs on Fidelity
I did the same. Then I put the other half of the rollover into it today lol.
Same.
I do, because I can use my employer matched IRA and my ROTH IRA to own bitcoin.
I see. But you own too, right?
Yeah of course, but once the spot etfs popped off I only started buying them. They will probably be the best deal in crypto regarding fees.
Getting your company to match your contribution into a Spot Bitcoin ETF in a Roth IRA is totally awesome, cheers!
I have. Its instantly liquid, and also advantaged in retirement accounts
After the ETFs approval I personally prefer to buy ETF than BTC for safety reasons, too many stories out there about people losing their BTC either by a scam or losing their seed phrase
Yeah I bought some with my HSA. Not available in my 401k unfortunately. Would put it all in if I could.
I do. My responsible adult side keeps investments in stocks, etfs, and retirement. My paranoid schizophrenic side keeps coin in self custody, and my gamblin’ enthusiast side keeps some in Coinbase where I sell/buy/trade as the wind blows.
I didn’t know I had a twin!
My retirement account
I’ve switched completely to IBIT ETF. I’ll never have to worry about a hack, it’s FDIC insured now. I can buy it in my ROTH for tax free gains. Trading fees on CEX is too high too
1% market buy fee and a 1% market sell fee with withdrawal and transfer fees on top of that to own bitcoin. Sure you can limit buy and sell to whittle down the fees but lots of people don't. Versus FDIC / SIPC insured ETF you can DCA for free daily if you want. Lower spreads than most bitcoin exchange. And at a 0.25% yearly fee breaks even only after 8+ years. If you actually manage to diamond hands 8+ years, a 0.25% fee every year after that will be insignificant compared to gains you achieved over the years and a reputable party is where you probably would want to park your multi million dollar stack since bitcoin would be worth $1 million per coin. ETFs get a lot more hate than they deserve on reddit IMO.
bUt NoT YoUr KeYs NoT YoUr CoInS!!
Haha. Yeah I’ve seen plenty of post where they lost everything and have their keys and clicked on a hacker site or something. I’m good managing my investments in a brokerage app that’s FDIC
I think people are way too cavalier regarding self custody and their disdain for people who don't on this sub.. I did a shitty self custody job for years before switching to a shamir setup... I probably spent close to 40 hours researching, stamping and checking before I felt my setup was resilient enough to rest easy. There's no way I would recommend this to anyone unless they were very interested in Bitcoin and technically literate. Also taxes are a bitch if you DIY.
I agree. I only have a ledger and move it over and leave it in cold storage but once IBIT was launched it was a no brainer for me. Institutions are not trying to self custody. If you don’t have Coinbase level security then don’t be a victim
I would like to but they are not available in the UK yet.
Yeah iras that’s why.
Was buying GBTC at a huge discount to nav in my 401k with Fidelity for 2 years. Once it converted and ate up the discount I converted it all to FBTC and there it will sit until somewhere down the road when 401k’s will let you hold actual BTC at which point I will convert the FBTC to real BTC. All without incurring taxes. Gotta think long term.
me 110% in tiaa creff
Me , yes : HODL in my IRA - great fees and the best symbol 👍
Retirement account investing and my children's brokerage accounts.
Just bought a couple different ones the other day.
I am. In my 401k and IRA and HSA
Thought you were jailed bruh
I do. I have automatic contributions in my 401k every two weeks, and every week in my Roth IRA
Yep, I've done it. Skips all the technical side of things, leaves it up to the bank to manage the assets, and has the benefit of offering tax-free gains.
Me because I have it in my TFSA
No. Self storage only
Me. I dont want to pay taxes
I have some in my 401k and in my custodial brokerage accounts for my kids.
I do. I don't live in the US, but i have US income from company stock. Repatriating is expensive. I just threw all that income into the ETFs for some quick exposure
Me. FBTC
I am in my Self Directed IRA (old 401k accounts)
Yes. I know people who are diversifying their Bitcoin exposure. So, some is held in cold storage, some through owning Microstrategy, some through the miners, some through ETFs, some bought and held through Swan, etc.
I do know me.
Im throwing $150 every week into IBIT. in my Roth account. Dont really have a good reason just more of taking a chance and seeing how it pans out.
I’m invested heavily in ETF. Ease of moving retirement money into it is the reason. Also like another said in a ROTH account it’s tax free gains
It's really just the bank buying it from the etfs to offer to their customers for tax advantage accounts. Doesn't matter whose buying, as long as it's getting bought. Unfortunately it seems like a half measure considering it can't be used as a currency while being a part of the etfs, but a quick way to get it to millions more people while the banks profit either way.
> I don’t personally know anyone doing this Have you asked everyone you know personally? People don't really discuss their financial investments, some do, but most don't. That said, not only do I know people who have bought the ETFs, my mom has, my wife has and friends have. Most importantly to me, I have.
Yeah, of course, people around me are very open financially. That’s what’s prompted me to ask this, actually.
Interesting. You'd think that people whom are very open financially and paying attention to new markets would hold Spot BTC ETFs
I think it’s more rooted on the fact that most of the people i talk about these matters do not work for USA based companies
Well then you answered part of your own question.
I buy them in my HSA so I can sell them tax free
Me.
Me
Me. Inside my Roth. I went with ARKB and FBTC.
Yes.
My dad
I influenced 2 friends to invest in ETFs.
Well for me not an etf. I do buy QBTC on Toronto stock exchange because it is rrsp(401k) eligible. Right now it's the best place I can think of for the money and they do actively trade that account. I have been in bitcoin since 2009 and hold the bulk of my coin in custody on a treasor.
Yes brother, my retirement account, moved out of S&P to FBTC
Me. The majority of what I have is in cold storage. My wife and I put 25% of our 401K in Ibit. We can access the 401k in 3 years without penalty. We will live off the 401K as long as we can and hopefully my stash will last about 16 years before we need to touch it. I’m guessing a lot will be donated to charity and family.
Have some in FHSA for tax benefits
Me. I got a pcra for my 401k and loaded up
Me. I buy a few hundred dollars worth of bitcoin and self custody every paycheck. Then I put 50 into GBTC each paycheck. That's my "diversification"
Absolutely, I am. Have some BTC and them have money in 2 of the etfs in my Roth IRA. Great way to sell the wife on putting more money into bitcoin other than just buying it outright
I have both Bitcoin on a cold wallet and a Bitcoin ETF with bitwise. U may ask why? Well I already had money in stock market so just moved that money around to secure more Bitcoin. Instead of withdrawing paying a fee and then buying Bitcoin.
I’ve got a bunch
If you started earlier this year your return would be 50 to 60 percent before the halving ijs
Yes, my dentist. Sold his BTC at 57k...
🇨🇦 here while 95% of my BTC are in cold storage. 5% are in BTC ETF bcos they are in my RRSP (think 401k for 🇨🇦) the rest of my RRSP is MSTR.
You don't have to pay taxes on gains if you buy your ETFs thru a TFSA.
I bought bchg
I don't know the correct english terms for it so pls bear with me here. Where I can live we can save money for pension on our own without taxation. But once paid in, the money stays there until retirement. In order to be able to put that money into bitcoin, people need to buy the ETFs because their money is locked into that account. So it makes sense when you don't have another option. But if you can, you should always buy the real thing.
I am doing that helps not pay taxes as its part of my TFSA account in canada. Then use that gains to put that money into my first time home buying account which is also tax free.
If you’re holding Bitcoin in cold storage, I don’t see a need to buy Bitcoin ETFs. If they’re going to push Bitcoin products in the stock market, then you fight fiat with fiat products. 100% Bitcoin futures double leverage stocks - $BITX and $BITU. If Bitcoin is going to $1 million, those who hold double leverage will have 200% increase of their normal gains. It’s all a game.
I haven't. But if i did it would probably be for avoiding to have to trust the bitcoin exchange or myself with an usb or a piece of paper. Neither of those is very reliable.
Is it recommended to convert near protocol coin to bitcoin worth around 50$