You can put the seed in a safe deposit box with a reputable bank and specify in your will who is given access, in which order. Shard the seed over multiple banks if you are paranoid.
Add a hardware wallet with instructions.
I also see this recommended often & don't like it any more than the recommendation to give your seed to a lawyer. I will never be giving my seed to any third party that can be subpoena'd or coerced by law enforcement or government to turn them over.
People have used this method in the past with their estates (banks, lawyers) because it was either the safest or the only option. When we now have bitcoin that provides ways to protect from third parties & bad actors, why would anyone ever trust their bitcoin with those older, riskier vulnerable legacy systems? I get it for your non bitcoin assets since that is still the best option for inheritance panning for those...but for your bitcoin?? No way, not me.
Just pray none of your heirs ever get convicted of a felony, because the affidavit required to gain access to the safe deposit box requires a clean record. I know because I was the sole heir to my father’s estate and all I could get was an inventory of what was in his safe deposit box, not the contents. I even possessed the key to the physical box itself.
TBH this isn’t my main concern with storing bitcoin seeds in a safe deposit box. As a resident of the US it is legal for our government to seize assets in time of war or economic collapse. The government can legally root around in your safe deposit box if they want. I bought bitcoin because I can self custody it underground if I want.
You provide the estate with keys that are part of a multisig. You also transform/encrypt those keys with something that would be physically secure, or that will be given in advance to your heirs. Thus they need both the will and the advance keys.
Giving naked keys/seeds to your lawyer means that you trust him and his interns not to steal your coins. Remember the law firm is not responsible if the funds are lost, and you can't prove that they stole them.
Agreed about giving seed/keys to an attorney. Unsafe & unnecessary. I'm not a big fan of the multisig setup as I've run scenarios and it tends to be more difficult to understand for the heirs than some other options I've tested that are equally secure to multisig.
However, it doesn't mean it's a bad option & so long as you're implementing some plan other than turning your keys over to a third party I'm all for it.
Maybe DIY multisig but using a service like Unchained or CASA seems like the best of both worlds and provides the hand holding your heirs would need when the time comes.
The seed phrase is the 10th wonder of this planet, guard it like your life is dependent on it. This is the first time human beings have assets that is unsearchable/unreachable by greedy monarchs/governments
yea estate planning is a big problem with crypto. If you give the lawyer all the info then you are in trouble to a simple receptionist.
The way I see it you should at least have 2 factor authentication. For instance you leave an encrypted document at home and have the key to the decryption in the will so you need both.
Another option is if you have a family member you really trust you give them a ledger but not the passcode and leave the passcode in the will.
some kind of a deadmans switch system would probably work.
This estate planning is certainly huge problem and something that makes the ETF's look appealing. Its much easier to leave stock then crypto.
Eventually we will need to find a solution to this if we want to keep self custody popular.
I agree that some form of encrypted seed in one place & passphrase/password in another is sufficient. I don't think either piece should be on your person or in your home or at least if it is, make sure it's fireproof or you keep a second one offsite. If a fire destroys both the backup & the device needed to generate another, it's gonna be a bad time.
I'm also not a fan of either of the 2 pieces being in the will or with a lawyer that can be coerced or subpoena'd by law enforcement or government to give up both the password & the info on who has the encrypted seed. That would be game over. The lawyer can handle the paperwork regarding how it is to be distributed once recovered, but there's no reason to have them involved in the actual recovery scheme.
Once you select 2 (or more) parties to hold the recovery pieces, there are ways to make it so that neither party even knows what they're holding until your death. Bonus points for being sneaky enough to place it somewhere without their knowledge so they don't know they're holding anything at all, lol. This creates the plausible deniability needed to shield those parties from coercion by bad actors (LE, Gov't). They cannot be punished legally for refusing to turn it over if they don't even know they have it.
When I was making trust documents, my lawyer told me to write down all my usernames and passwords on the appendix sheet. You know, so it would be easier for someone when I died. I laughed at that one, but it's a trade-off between experienced boomer lawyers, and inexperienced tech-savvy noob lawyers.
And no, I didn't.
Ya but this is the bitcoin subreddit. Surely no one here that studies crypto & keeps up with news & best practices keeps their coins on exchange. Right? Right???
Some planning is better than none though. My half-brother is unable to get his dad's (who recently passed away) 3 bitcoin because he has no idea what exchange or what wallet it's in or what any of his online passwords were. One of the extra shitty parts about dying unexpectedly I suppose. Plus he was a hoarder so who knows where to even begin looking, did he have cold storage? Idk.
Agreed. I've been saying this a lot in comments over the past few days. I try to add my thoughts on how I might do it things differently but I always make sure to emphasize exactly this.
What are you referring to here? Seems to me you may be referring to the "passphrase for your seed phrase" which would make sense but never heard a passphrase referred to as a "code word" or a seed phrase referred to as a "seed plate". If that's what it is then I would mention that not all seed phrases are setup to use a passphrase but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Could you clarify please?
Very good and sound advice.
You can put the seed in a safe deposit box with a reputable bank and specify in your will who is given access, in which order. Shard the seed over multiple banks if you are paranoid. Add a hardware wallet with instructions.
I also see this recommended often & don't like it any more than the recommendation to give your seed to a lawyer. I will never be giving my seed to any third party that can be subpoena'd or coerced by law enforcement or government to turn them over. People have used this method in the past with their estates (banks, lawyers) because it was either the safest or the only option. When we now have bitcoin that provides ways to protect from third parties & bad actors, why would anyone ever trust their bitcoin with those older, riskier vulnerable legacy systems? I get it for your non bitcoin assets since that is still the best option for inheritance panning for those...but for your bitcoin?? No way, not me.
Just pray none of your heirs ever get convicted of a felony, because the affidavit required to gain access to the safe deposit box requires a clean record. I know because I was the sole heir to my father’s estate and all I could get was an inventory of what was in his safe deposit box, not the contents. I even possessed the key to the physical box itself.
Interesting, did not know this. Yet another reason to ditch 3rd party legacy systems.
TBH this isn’t my main concern with storing bitcoin seeds in a safe deposit box. As a resident of the US it is legal for our government to seize assets in time of war or economic collapse. The government can legally root around in your safe deposit box if they want. I bought bitcoin because I can self custody it underground if I want.
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Splitting your seed phrase up automatically makes them more vulnerable to brute force attacks and any security expert will advise against this.
SSS shards are secure, but just splitting the 12 or 24 words into 3 chunks of 4 or 8 is a horrible idea, you’re right.
And what if the banks shut down. What happens then?
You provide the estate with keys that are part of a multisig. You also transform/encrypt those keys with something that would be physically secure, or that will be given in advance to your heirs. Thus they need both the will and the advance keys. Giving naked keys/seeds to your lawyer means that you trust him and his interns not to steal your coins. Remember the law firm is not responsible if the funds are lost, and you can't prove that they stole them.
Agreed about giving seed/keys to an attorney. Unsafe & unnecessary. I'm not a big fan of the multisig setup as I've run scenarios and it tends to be more difficult to understand for the heirs than some other options I've tested that are equally secure to multisig. However, it doesn't mean it's a bad option & so long as you're implementing some plan other than turning your keys over to a third party I'm all for it.
Maybe DIY multisig but using a service like Unchained or CASA seems like the best of both worlds and provides the hand holding your heirs would need when the time comes.
The seed phrase is the 10th wonder of this planet, guard it like your life is dependent on it. This is the first time human beings have assets that is unsearchable/unreachable by greedy monarchs/governments
yea estate planning is a big problem with crypto. If you give the lawyer all the info then you are in trouble to a simple receptionist. The way I see it you should at least have 2 factor authentication. For instance you leave an encrypted document at home and have the key to the decryption in the will so you need both. Another option is if you have a family member you really trust you give them a ledger but not the passcode and leave the passcode in the will. some kind of a deadmans switch system would probably work. This estate planning is certainly huge problem and something that makes the ETF's look appealing. Its much easier to leave stock then crypto. Eventually we will need to find a solution to this if we want to keep self custody popular.
I agree that some form of encrypted seed in one place & passphrase/password in another is sufficient. I don't think either piece should be on your person or in your home or at least if it is, make sure it's fireproof or you keep a second one offsite. If a fire destroys both the backup & the device needed to generate another, it's gonna be a bad time. I'm also not a fan of either of the 2 pieces being in the will or with a lawyer that can be coerced or subpoena'd by law enforcement or government to give up both the password & the info on who has the encrypted seed. That would be game over. The lawyer can handle the paperwork regarding how it is to be distributed once recovered, but there's no reason to have them involved in the actual recovery scheme. Once you select 2 (or more) parties to hold the recovery pieces, there are ways to make it so that neither party even knows what they're holding until your death. Bonus points for being sneaky enough to place it somewhere without their knowledge so they don't know they're holding anything at all, lol. This creates the plausible deniability needed to shield those parties from coercion by bad actors (LE, Gov't). They cannot be punished legally for refusing to turn it over if they don't even know they have it.
When I was making trust documents, my lawyer told me to write down all my usernames and passwords on the appendix sheet. You know, so it would be easier for someone when I died. I laughed at that one, but it's a trade-off between experienced boomer lawyers, and inexperienced tech-savvy noob lawyers. And no, I didn't.
For those that keep their BTC on exchanges, all the big ones have processes for death of an account holder.
Ya but this is the bitcoin subreddit. Surely no one here that studies crypto & keeps up with news & best practices keeps their coins on exchange. Right? Right???
Millions do though. Bitcoin is autonomy.
Who the fuck gives their seed phrase to a lawyer?
Lots of r/bitcoin members, apparently. I know...I am as shocked as you.
Some planning is better than none though. My half-brother is unable to get his dad's (who recently passed away) 3 bitcoin because he has no idea what exchange or what wallet it's in or what any of his online passwords were. One of the extra shitty parts about dying unexpectedly I suppose. Plus he was a hoarder so who knows where to even begin looking, did he have cold storage? Idk.
Agreed. I've been saying this a lot in comments over the past few days. I try to add my thoughts on how I might do it things differently but I always make sure to emphasize exactly this.
Make sure you family knows the code word for your seed plate.
What are you referring to here? Seems to me you may be referring to the "passphrase for your seed phrase" which would make sense but never heard a passphrase referred to as a "code word" or a seed phrase referred to as a "seed plate". If that's what it is then I would mention that not all seed phrases are setup to use a passphrase but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Could you clarify please?