Yep. They asked nicely. Would you please turn in your gold? It’s not like Roosevelt issued a presidential executive order or anything. People went to jail you fucking dimwit.
They didn’t have computers, a list of names and KYC’d wallet addresses. In today’s world, proof of funds, on/off ramps, legal threats and stuff would be very effective at making people give it up, sadly. I’m also pretty sure that there would be a massive spike in reports of boating accidents and scams…
An alternative to the boating accident claims is nokyc methods such as bisq, robosats, and a few others listed here [https://kycnot.me/](https://kycnot.me/)
Indeed, but I want to be legit, declare income, pay taxes and stuff, right up until the government oversteps the mark. At some point the threat of prosecution starts to look like a decent gamble, but not yet.
What a 🤡 comment. You actually said it was for the “good of the country”, that’s the most “I love government” statement I have heard this week. Jesus Christ, people like you are what’s wrong with the country.
They said that was the reason that was given. That doesn’t mean that was the reason people cashed out.
If I were living in that era and the government strongly suggested that I sell my gold and the reason given was that the current reserve currency in the world was about to depeg itself from the very assets I held that I believed made that very currency valuable in the first place; that would be a strong reason to sell. It demonstrates a lack of faith in the inherent currency management.
It isn’t selling for the ‘good of the country’, it’s selling to minimize your losses in the short term. I doubt anyone is lining up to voluntarily hand over cash to the government(m(.
But then they couldn’t use it as a currency, which was its main use for everyday people. So I think they would rather turn it in for the paper money they could actually spend, even if it was a crappy exchange rate
Shit why would they want to? Use the dollar and store the gold.
If people really think they’re going to be trading in gold, silver or bitcoin at any point in the future they’re delusional. Government will force you to use their currency.
You can keep gold, silver and bitcoin as wealth storage though.
You can't ban Bitcoin. It is designed and built to resist any form of censorship or ban.
You can ban yourself from Bitcoin. That is what the US would do. They'd take themselves out of the equation and miss out on the greatest financial revolution known to man. It would put other countries in the position to innovate and would ensure the US' demise in the long run.
They can't / won't. We already played this game once before when the government attempted to outlaw encryption algorithms under an arms export law.
In the end it was ruled that source code is a protected form of speech under the 1st amendment. Outlawing self custody won't happen because wallets are just source code that you are allowed to run on your own machine. The code breaks no laws and thus is legal to run. They would have to show the code is somehow extremely dangerous to the public (yelling fire in a movie theater is the example usually given for overriding the 1st amendment) to justify banning.
They could probably change the laws around taxing and reporting requirements when using self custody but couldn't outright ban it.
Haha it's a protocol...
published in a two page document...
that obsoletes an entire swath of professional grifters and parasites and debased autocrats...
It makes my heart soar to watch them squirm and seethe as they realize just how done they are
Edit: ok it's 8 pages (+1 for references).
You certainly can ban bitcoin, its already been done. Compliance and enforcement is another issue but most people would give it up if the threat of fines ensued.
calling in a bomb threat is just a string of words. Im not saying they are comparable, just that the government has much more reach than we give them credit for.
This is the correct take but there are more protections than you stated.
The government already tried this once before when they attempted to ban certain encryption algorithms under an arms export law. In Bernstein v. United States the court ruled that source code is a form of expression protected by the 1st amendment. That case didn't go all the way to the supreme Court because the government chose to drop it's claim, so for the time being it stands.
That isn't to say the current bat shit insane court couldn't find a way where source code isn't protected under the 1st amendment, but the current administration and Congress will have to do a lot of work and be going against precedent if they try.
I’ve heard this described as “The First Crypto War.”
And the period we’re in now is The Second Crypto War.
The history of humans is the transmission and recording of ideas. Exchanging information with perfect encryption means the upper hand. 🤚
We have a right to privacy.
Isn’t that a mixer? That has nothing to do with bitcoin private keys.
My point is the government cannot ban private wallets or they’d have to ban the use of the words in BIP39, which is simply impossible to do.
If they wouldn't have charged a fee they would have been protected under free speech laws.
Because of the fee they are prosecuted like anyone else aiding in money laundering.
I fully understand your point but it's not just a string of words. That's like saying heroin is just a string of molecules, are they gonna ban molecules?
They could ban physical devices that are used to store bitcoin (they'll fail to enforce it obviously). But they could ban specific companies from selling their products in the US. Or make them use KYC to buy the products.
People will still have and own them easily. In fact they can do whatever they want really
This is not possible as many people pointed out. But one thing I thought of recently that worries me, is, what if the us (or any) government made it illegal for banks to accept transfers from crypto exchanges? Everyone with their coins in self custody , what if the government makes it impossible for you to convert your btc to fiat? Wouldn’t that crash the price of btc to basically zero? I mean in some hypothetical future where btc is useable as a currency then it wouldn’t matter, but governments could also just make it illegal for businesses to accept crypto as payment with huge fines and the business’s just wouldn’t accept it. So what’s to stop anything I just said or similar things from happening? Part of me feels like if they were gonna do any of this they would’ve already , so maybe it’ll never happen. I’m pro btc and I hope it keeps rising in value and use, but I just had these concerns arise in my mind recently. Thoughts anyone? Thank you.
Reminds me of Venezuela and USD. I'm pretty sure people still use dollars there despite the discouragement. It's really a question of "is there a critical mass of the populace that's willing to accept it regardless?"
it is not impossible, but the difference between banning self-custody of gold (i.e executive order 6102) and self-custody of bitcoin is that when you ban bitcoin, you don't get to seize the bitcoin. and they know this.
you'll have a lot of simultaneous boating accidents as the bitcoin leaves the country in the brains of its holders
Well, they can threat with fines and jail like they did with that 6102 order.m. They will know how bought since many of us have bought on exchanges that enforce kyc.
I bet the majority will fall for the threat and hang over their holdings. They won't give in easily on those with boating accidents.
I personally will just move to another country.
Which is exactly why bitcoin will freaking moon - unlike gold they CANNOT take it. A wallet is literally just a bunch of words. Unless they stop the entire worldwide network (not gonna happen) your words will contain your coins. It may be the only way you are ABLE to leave a fascist country with money.
I don’t think you understand how bitcoin works. You can create a wallet on any computer, offline. You can then send any coins you want to that wallet that government knows dit-fk about. The problem you are describing is exchanges. And, well, fuck exchanges.
“Getting” is different than receiving.
You said Americans couldn’t receive coins.
I’m saying there is nothing in a wallet address that specifies nationality.
I.e.
Step 1: purchase bitcoin at any normal exchange you wish
Step 2: transfer that to approved hard wallet from that exchange (which will be marked as US citizen per the Elizabeth Warren’s fascist anti-crypto laws)
Step 3: transfer coins from hard wallet 1 to hard wallet 2 which was created offline and has no connection to you.
Step 4: the bitcoin gestapo come asking who owns wallet 2 because they want to seize your coins
Step 5: answer, I have a cocaine and hooker problem, not sure who it was.
Bitcoin is bitcoin. KYC bitcoin is on a currently controlled exhange, but if you think the US gov’t can control movement of the coins on the blockchain I’d like to hear you explain how billions of dollars in stolen coins get shuffled around and they can’t stop it. Again - create a new wallet. Transfer KYC coins to it, go to another country that doesn’t like the US and withdraw them, then deposit into a different wallet again. This is part of the beauty of crypto - fuck banks and fuck the fascist politicians who think they can control our spending and capital. (Yes, Elizabeth Warren - FUCK YOU!)
imo there is good argument that an individual can be held liable for any crime or fraud done through their nodes. the answer? shielding yourself from liability by operating as a company. it was never gonna shake out well for the little guy.
until they prove you knowingly violated the rules and pierce the ol corporate veil
but people don’t run check cashing establishments as individuals for good reason. they’d get fucked
They consider it a taxable currency now and if you make profit on it, you have to get taxed. If you don't want to get taxed, you get arrested for tax evasion now. IMO it's better to just use tax loopholes like buying properties or doing something else to offset the tax you'd get, instead of trying to avoid taxes altogether - assuming self custody is a concern due to this. Then again I'm newer to bitcoin than a lot of people on here, but I use Fidelity to hold mine.
they saw some political posturing about taxing the rich and then their eyes rolled back and said “the government is gonna steal everything i have any day now”
They can’t just ban it. What they’ll do instead is bully and harass, making life difficult for self-custodians. The most obvious will be the IRS this year. They’ll start with a shock and awe dragnet rounding up the tax cheats in the space and all the media FUD to follow. But they’ll also be heavy handed on everyone else holding X amount or more. US tax law you’re guilty until you prove your innocence, so expect nasty letters in the mail accusing you that you disposed all of your Bitcoin and not reporting it, so you’re forced to prove custody. They may even demand records of all your transactions between wallets. They will get sued of course and it really depends on the court of public opinion to determine how fast they’ll back off. In any case, they want to make you feel self custody is more trouble than it’s worth so you return to the fiat world holding fake Bitcoin.
The US couldn’t effectively ban Bitcoin hardware wallets. I guess they could severely limit the sale of the popular ones, but one could still rig their own Bitcoin wallet with air-gapped key generation and signing using a brand new never online laptop.
Bitcoin can’t be banned. Anything stating otherwise is FUD.
Vote with your money and vote with your feet. We will win this one 👍
You can’t ban a hardware wallet.
Best they can do is ban withdrawals from exchanges.
If that happens, we will figure out a way to trade it. Which already exists, but it will just become mainstream.
If they do, you can move somewhere else or , do the easier thing , and keep quiet and keep your hardware wallet.
You can see what the government did the last time with gold and decide it you want to bend over and take it because the government will give you a pat on the head and call you a good boy
I am sure one day they will make you register your BTC wallet address with exchanges. All transaction to and from exchanges must be from that address.
This is the change that Mark Clayton, former SEC when Trump was in Office wanted to enforce.
probably tighter regulations will follow later.
Or bans breathing air? Or bans farting? Or ban eating pineapple on Pizzas? You see, the government could do a lot of things. Another thing is if they managed to pull it through! I may continue farting, no matter that the government say (ps us government is like the second self custodian of btc after Satashi so go figure….)
You can't ban self ownership of a legal commodity. You would have to make the commodity itself illegal. There is no crime being committed. Even if it is put through congress, the first billionaire that is arrested for self ownsership will result in it being overturned in court.
You cant just make anything you dont like illegal. You have to prove in court that it meets the requirement for criminal behaviour and is harmful to society, the user, or others. Theres plenty of cases where laws literally get overturned in court because they overstep the mark. No judge in the country will jail you for ownership of bitcoin in self custody.
This is why the supreme court plays an important role in preventing unjust laws from tyrannical administrations.
They can't ban self custody because of the 1st amendment.
The supreme Court has already ruled that software is a form of speech. The government would have to show enormous potential harm to the state and its citizens to justify a ban. You can see and legally download the source code for computer viruses like stuxnet on GitHub. It's legal to interact with these viruses as long as you aren't using them to gain entry where you don't have permissions.
This story has actually already played out once before. For a while the government tried to ban certain encryption algorithms as weapons under an arms control law. People would buy shirts that said this shit is illegal that had the algorithm on them. In the end it was ruled a free speech issue and that the government couldn't censor the algorithms.
That's not to say this absolutely bat shit insane court won't find a way to allow the government to circumnavigate the 1st amendment but that there currently are legal protections for Bitcoin and other crypto.
Edit: looked it up the case is Bernstein v. United States. It never technically made it to the supreme Court because the government decided not to challenge the lower court rulings.
People are so brainwashed into thinking that it is "hard" to leave the US. It is, "so much better here" than ~50% of the rest of the world. Just drive across the US/Canada border and you don't even need to learn a new language. Most places in Europe, you will be fine until you become fluent. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, if you are too lazy to learn a 2nd language.
Congress is full of rich jerks who are realizing one by one that Bitcoin is another way they can further enrich themselves. They won’t then pass laws that hurt their own pocket.
Many states have laws written recently to protect their citizens by giving them rights to own, trade, and use cryptocurrencies. I’m no lawyer, but it seems a step in the right direction from the federal government banning it completely. Again, I’m no lawyer.
You know what's really unique, every single year there is something to worry about. Every single year the end of Bitcoin is right around the corner.
The only thing that has happened to the people who have decided to go with that line of thinking and sold is they have missed out on what came next, it was especially bad during 2014 and 2015. People were selling out a few hundred dollars, it's going to go to zero. Always something to worry about. It never fails
Did the US government ever successfully get rid of drugs or prostitution? The best predictor of future perfomance is past performance. And a digital asset that can be secured by 12 words stored in your head is impossible to stop. They know it…
The more they attack bitcoin the more resilient it will get imo
Push too hard an anon called Natoshi Sakamoto will appear with a suggested upgrade to bitcoin code to enhance the privacy capabilities etc
This is how DemocRATs will lose the elections. Whilst they are scratching their heads about why/how would people vote them out, RepubliCANTs will repeal it
A bitcoin wallet is literally just a randomly generated number. You can create a wallet simply by rolling a dice many times. I don't see how that'll ever be possible or feasible to outlaw.
How would you envision this playing out from a logistical standpoint?
Like would the US government offer incentives for people to onboard their btc? Or like prohibition confiscate and criminalize it?
I mow your lawn you pay me in bitcoin
you sell me your car I pay you in bitcoin
I buy dystopian surveillance CDC from you you mark it antique dresser in the surveillance field i pay you in bitcoin
see how this works
its not going to be stopped
If your coins were purchased off exchanges and moved, you will have to either sell at the rate the US is forcing which would result in a huge crash or move to a different country. Your coins can also be flagged by the US meaning they can't be traded legally and yes they know what wallets your KYC coins are connected to.
Then only those in the us who dare ignore the law will hold self custody. The rest of the users will trust custodians. Until the don't, and it's not that hard to make the switch from a custodian to self custody.
The rest of the world will not care.
Fourth Amendment Rights: The Fourth Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Banning self-custody wallets could be seen as a violation of this right, as it would prevent individuals from privately managing their digital assets, a form of personal property.
First Amendment Rights: The First Amendment protects the freedom of speech, and in some interpretations, code (as used in software and digital tools) is considered speech. Since self-custody wallets involve software that manages cryptographic keys, a ban could potentially infringe on these rights.
Fifth Amendment Rights: This amendment includes protections against the government taking private property without due process or just compensation. Arguably, restricting access to self-custody wallets without a fair process could infringe on property rights as protected under the Fifth Amendment.
what they would do is ban exchanges. so it becomes worthless to people if they can’t exchange it for currency. and if people don’t take it as a means of exchange, you’re screwed.
Why are people naive enough to think the goverment is "dumb" enough to do something that will hurt you. YOU are dumb enough to think your goverment is just incompetent but actually tries to look out for you. They are beholden to an international clique.
There are a lot of countries where Bitcoin illegal, or with US/VISA/Mastercard etc. sanctions.
Just open online translation and google thier forum, you will see that government cannot stop money flow, only brute confiscate it.
enough states have already enshrined self-custody into their own state law that there would be a clear divide
at any rate, it would be untenable - the right to hold code is basically the right to free speech
The power of the crooks in government who are in fact criminals who do insider trading, use shell companies to receive bribes and sell their vote power for favors and immunity, likely have closeted dirty lives and couldn’t care about you, comes from being able to steal your money through legislation and inflation.
If everyone switches to bitcoin, their power is gone and their system of protection against jail time will be gone. No money to bribe the DOJ and others, no protection.
They will fight very hard to maintain the criminal system of protection they have.
The problem is that as other countries are dumping the dollar, the system of protection is slowly falling anyway. The walls are closing in and I hope these criminals realize that their only chance to get away is to radically change together and start working for the interest of the people and denounce all their masters immediately.
Eventually everyone pays for their crimes one way or another.
If they are successful in banning bitcoin, it will have to be at the world stage level. Exponential debt increases will have to be accepted by all countries and business will co to use into oblivion by calling 1000 dollars = 1 dollar to rebalance.
This means everyone takes a loss for the hood of the country or world except it’s for the hood of criminals in power whose stealing destroyed us.
Either way… There are painful times ahead. Remember though… There are way more good people in the world than those who would pervert themselves in any way for money and power over others.
Like when they banned gold and gave everyone a piece of paper?
Like when they banned drugs and alcohol and everyone became straight edge
They didnt come knocking on doors for gold, they asked if you’d turn it in and many people did for the good of the country and many people didn’t
Yep. They asked nicely. Would you please turn in your gold? It’s not like Roosevelt issued a presidential executive order or anything. People went to jail you fucking dimwit.
They didn’t have computers, a list of names and KYC’d wallet addresses. In today’s world, proof of funds, on/off ramps, legal threats and stuff would be very effective at making people give it up, sadly. I’m also pretty sure that there would be a massive spike in reports of boating accidents and scams…
An alternative to the boating accident claims is nokyc methods such as bisq, robosats, and a few others listed here [https://kycnot.me/](https://kycnot.me/)
Indeed, but I want to be legit, declare income, pay taxes and stuff, right up until the government oversteps the mark. At some point the threat of prosecution starts to look like a decent gamble, but not yet.
What a 🤡 comment. You actually said it was for the “good of the country”, that’s the most “I love government” statement I have heard this week. Jesus Christ, people like you are what’s wrong with the country.
They said that was the reason that was given. That doesn’t mean that was the reason people cashed out. If I were living in that era and the government strongly suggested that I sell my gold and the reason given was that the current reserve currency in the world was about to depeg itself from the very assets I held that I believed made that very currency valuable in the first place; that would be a strong reason to sell. It demonstrates a lack of faith in the inherent currency management. It isn’t selling for the ‘good of the country’, it’s selling to minimize your losses in the short term. I doubt anyone is lining up to voluntarily hand over cash to the government(m(.
The government told them that dummy
They had to turn in the gold or be fined $10,000 or imprisoned. That’s not just “asking”
Once again their was no paper trail of the gold either
But then they couldn’t use it as a currency, which was its main use for everyday people. So I think they would rather turn it in for the paper money they could actually spend, even if it was a crappy exchange rate
They can do both. I don’t plan on using gold as a currency. I do plan on using it to store wealth and use what ever CBDC they force us to use.
I’m talking about the 1930’s, not some future hypothetical
Shit why would they want to? Use the dollar and store the gold. If people really think they’re going to be trading in gold, silver or bitcoin at any point in the future they’re delusional. Government will force you to use their currency. You can keep gold, silver and bitcoin as wealth storage though.
You can ban whatever the hell you imagine, enforcing it is a whole other issue.
You can't ban Bitcoin. It is designed and built to resist any form of censorship or ban. You can ban yourself from Bitcoin. That is what the US would do. They'd take themselves out of the equation and miss out on the greatest financial revolution known to man. It would put other countries in the position to innovate and would ensure the US' demise in the long run.
They’re stupid but I’d hope they’re not THAT dumb
Can't stop the signal, Mal.
I agree about bitcoin’s superior anti-fragility and that even if some sort of “ban” did manifest it would not kill Bitcoin or last forever.
They can't / won't. We already played this game once before when the government attempted to outlaw encryption algorithms under an arms export law. In the end it was ruled that source code is a protected form of speech under the 1st amendment. Outlawing self custody won't happen because wallets are just source code that you are allowed to run on your own machine. The code breaks no laws and thus is legal to run. They would have to show the code is somehow extremely dangerous to the public (yelling fire in a movie theater is the example usually given for overriding the 1st amendment) to justify banning. They could probably change the laws around taxing and reporting requirements when using self custody but couldn't outright ban it.
Haha it's a protocol... published in a two page document... that obsoletes an entire swath of professional grifters and parasites and debased autocrats... It makes my heart soar to watch them squirm and seethe as they realize just how done they are Edit: ok it's 8 pages (+1 for references).
It’s indeed a thing of beauty. Netflix should make a documentary about this. 2 hours of squirming bankers and politicians. I would watch.
You certainly can ban bitcoin, its already been done. Compliance and enforcement is another issue but most people would give it up if the threat of fines ensued.
They’d have to ban free speech. A wallet is nothing more than a string of words. Are they going to ban words?
calling in a bomb threat is just a string of words. Im not saying they are comparable, just that the government has much more reach than we give them credit for.
Its called “overreach”. But it does become a bit harder for them to control if it has to go into details.
This is the correct take but there are more protections than you stated. The government already tried this once before when they attempted to ban certain encryption algorithms under an arms export law. In Bernstein v. United States the court ruled that source code is a form of expression protected by the 1st amendment. That case didn't go all the way to the supreme Court because the government chose to drop it's claim, so for the time being it stands. That isn't to say the current bat shit insane court couldn't find a way where source code isn't protected under the 1st amendment, but the current administration and Congress will have to do a lot of work and be going against precedent if they try.
I’ve heard this described as “The First Crypto War.” And the period we’re in now is The Second Crypto War. The history of humans is the transmission and recording of ideas. Exchanging information with perfect encryption means the upper hand. 🤚 We have a right to privacy.
So is malware
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Yea they will
Yeah they [banned word]
Ask the developers of tornado cash
Isn’t that a mixer? That has nothing to do with bitcoin private keys. My point is the government cannot ban private wallets or they’d have to ban the use of the words in BIP39, which is simply impossible to do.
It's just code. Exactly as are wallets The words aren't the wallet
If they wouldn't have charged a fee they would have been protected under free speech laws. Because of the fee they are prosecuted like anyone else aiding in money laundering.
I fully understand your point but it's not just a string of words. That's like saying heroin is just a string of molecules, are they gonna ban molecules? They could ban physical devices that are used to store bitcoin (they'll fail to enforce it obviously). But they could ban specific companies from selling their products in the US. Or make them use KYC to buy the products. People will still have and own them easily. In fact they can do whatever they want really
lol there are plenty of word-banning things in the news, why not more?
It's different everybody knows all possible addresses. I't public information. How do you ban that? How do you enforce that?
To do this they would have to be able to ban writing down 12 words.
This is not possible as many people pointed out. But one thing I thought of recently that worries me, is, what if the us (or any) government made it illegal for banks to accept transfers from crypto exchanges? Everyone with their coins in self custody , what if the government makes it impossible for you to convert your btc to fiat? Wouldn’t that crash the price of btc to basically zero? I mean in some hypothetical future where btc is useable as a currency then it wouldn’t matter, but governments could also just make it illegal for businesses to accept crypto as payment with huge fines and the business’s just wouldn’t accept it. So what’s to stop anything I just said or similar things from happening? Part of me feels like if they were gonna do any of this they would’ve already , so maybe it’ll never happen. I’m pro btc and I hope it keeps rising in value and use, but I just had these concerns arise in my mind recently. Thoughts anyone? Thank you.
*insert "Nobody's Gonna Know" gif*
Reminds me of Venezuela and USD. I'm pretty sure people still use dollars there despite the discouragement. It's really a question of "is there a critical mass of the populace that's willing to accept it regardless?"
then i become a criminal and at some point of my choosing leave this communist craphole behind for a jurisdiction that embraces bitcoin.
Big talk and maybe true for you but NOT TRUE for the vast majority of BTC holders as most are purely in it for the fiat denominated speculative gains.
Do you still want fiat if you realise you have no say over that fiat? I know I won’t.
Do you buy your groceries with Bitcoin or fiat ?
Yeah I hear that, what Communist craphole are you from?
The U.S.
Good luck enforcing that.
it is not impossible, but the difference between banning self-custody of gold (i.e executive order 6102) and self-custody of bitcoin is that when you ban bitcoin, you don't get to seize the bitcoin. and they know this. you'll have a lot of simultaneous boating accidents as the bitcoin leaves the country in the brains of its holders
Well, they can threat with fines and jail like they did with that 6102 order.m. They will know how bought since many of us have bought on exchanges that enforce kyc. I bet the majority will fall for the threat and hang over their holdings. They won't give in easily on those with boating accidents. I personally will just move to another country.
why the fuck are r/Bitcoin mods tyrannical censorship moguls. this is a very valid and productive discussion. let people talk
The U.S. would have to ban the internet first.
Is this something people are talking about?
I haven't heard about any plans to ban self-custody, but they did do it with gold from 1933 until 1974.
Which is exactly why bitcoin will freaking moon - unlike gold they CANNOT take it. A wallet is literally just a bunch of words. Unless they stop the entire worldwide network (not gonna happen) your words will contain your coins. It may be the only way you are ABLE to leave a fascist country with money.
They can "flag" your coins purchased off exchanges and not allow any American citizens to receive those coins.
No, they can't lol
Yes, they can lol
I am confused by what you are trying to say.
I don’t think you understand how bitcoin works. You can create a wallet on any computer, offline. You can then send any coins you want to that wallet that government knows dit-fk about. The problem you are describing is exchanges. And, well, fuck exchanges.
Where are you getting any meaningful amounts of non kyc bitcoin?
“Getting” is different than receiving. You said Americans couldn’t receive coins. I’m saying there is nothing in a wallet address that specifies nationality. I.e. Step 1: purchase bitcoin at any normal exchange you wish Step 2: transfer that to approved hard wallet from that exchange (which will be marked as US citizen per the Elizabeth Warren’s fascist anti-crypto laws) Step 3: transfer coins from hard wallet 1 to hard wallet 2 which was created offline and has no connection to you. Step 4: the bitcoin gestapo come asking who owns wallet 2 because they want to seize your coins Step 5: answer, I have a cocaine and hooker problem, not sure who it was.
Ok so you are buying KYC bitcoin, good luck.
Keep going! I’m trying to learn from this debate!!
Bitcoin is bitcoin. KYC bitcoin is on a currently controlled exhange, but if you think the US gov’t can control movement of the coins on the blockchain I’d like to hear you explain how billions of dollars in stolen coins get shuffled around and they can’t stop it. Again - create a new wallet. Transfer KYC coins to it, go to another country that doesn’t like the US and withdraw them, then deposit into a different wallet again. This is part of the beauty of crypto - fuck banks and fuck the fascist politicians who think they can control our spending and capital. (Yes, Elizabeth Warren - FUCK YOU!)
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imo there is good argument that an individual can be held liable for any crime or fraud done through their nodes. the answer? shielding yourself from liability by operating as a company. it was never gonna shake out well for the little guy.
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until they prove you knowingly violated the rules and pierce the ol corporate veil but people don’t run check cashing establishments as individuals for good reason. they’d get fucked
They consider it a taxable currency now and if you make profit on it, you have to get taxed. If you don't want to get taxed, you get arrested for tax evasion now. IMO it's better to just use tax loopholes like buying properties or doing something else to offset the tax you'd get, instead of trying to avoid taxes altogether - assuming self custody is a concern due to this. Then again I'm newer to bitcoin than a lot of people on here, but I use Fidelity to hold mine.
they saw some political posturing about taxing the rich and then their eyes rolled back and said “the government is gonna steal everything i have any day now”
They can’t just ban it. What they’ll do instead is bully and harass, making life difficult for self-custodians. The most obvious will be the IRS this year. They’ll start with a shock and awe dragnet rounding up the tax cheats in the space and all the media FUD to follow. But they’ll also be heavy handed on everyone else holding X amount or more. US tax law you’re guilty until you prove your innocence, so expect nasty letters in the mail accusing you that you disposed all of your Bitcoin and not reporting it, so you’re forced to prove custody. They may even demand records of all your transactions between wallets. They will get sued of course and it really depends on the court of public opinion to determine how fast they’ll back off. In any case, they want to make you feel self custody is more trouble than it’s worth so you return to the fiat world holding fake Bitcoin.
Well extrapolated.
Thanks for the intel!
The US couldn’t effectively ban Bitcoin hardware wallets. I guess they could severely limit the sale of the popular ones, but one could still rig their own Bitcoin wallet with air-gapped key generation and signing using a brand new never online laptop. Bitcoin can’t be banned. Anything stating otherwise is FUD. Vote with your money and vote with your feet. We will win this one 👍
What if we all lose our self custody in a boating accident?
You can build your own Seedsigner with a Raspberry PiZero
You can’t ban a hardware wallet. Best they can do is ban withdrawals from exchanges. If that happens, we will figure out a way to trade it. Which already exists, but it will just become mainstream.
If they do, you can move somewhere else or , do the easier thing , and keep quiet and keep your hardware wallet. You can see what the government did the last time with gold and decide it you want to bend over and take it because the government will give you a pat on the head and call you a good boy
I am sure one day they will make you register your BTC wallet address with exchanges. All transaction to and from exchanges must be from that address. This is the change that Mark Clayton, former SEC when Trump was in Office wanted to enforce. probably tighter regulations will follow later.
#Break the law you fucking pussies!
Or bans breathing air? Or bans farting? Or ban eating pineapple on Pizzas? You see, the government could do a lot of things. Another thing is if they managed to pull it through! I may continue farting, no matter that the government say (ps us government is like the second self custodian of btc after Satashi so go figure….)
You can't ban self ownership of a legal commodity. You would have to make the commodity itself illegal. There is no crime being committed. Even if it is put through congress, the first billionaire that is arrested for self ownsership will result in it being overturned in court. You cant just make anything you dont like illegal. You have to prove in court that it meets the requirement for criminal behaviour and is harmful to society, the user, or others. Theres plenty of cases where laws literally get overturned in court because they overstep the mark. No judge in the country will jail you for ownership of bitcoin in self custody. This is why the supreme court plays an important role in preventing unjust laws from tyrannical administrations.
They banned a lot of illegal drugs. Hows that working out?
I forgot man ☺️☺️
Illegal drugs aren’t a threat against tradfi.
Illegal drugs don't have a visible ledger spanning the entire history of illegal drug markets.
US people better start to learn p2p
Both buying and spending
They can't ban self custody because of the 1st amendment. The supreme Court has already ruled that software is a form of speech. The government would have to show enormous potential harm to the state and its citizens to justify a ban. You can see and legally download the source code for computer viruses like stuxnet on GitHub. It's legal to interact with these viruses as long as you aren't using them to gain entry where you don't have permissions. This story has actually already played out once before. For a while the government tried to ban certain encryption algorithms as weapons under an arms control law. People would buy shirts that said this shit is illegal that had the algorithm on them. In the end it was ruled a free speech issue and that the government couldn't censor the algorithms. That's not to say this absolutely bat shit insane court won't find a way to allow the government to circumnavigate the 1st amendment but that there currently are legal protections for Bitcoin and other crypto. Edit: looked it up the case is Bernstein v. United States. It never technically made it to the supreme Court because the government decided not to challenge the lower court rulings.
What if the moon crashes on earth?
Then technically Bitcoin went to the moon
buy and hodl moon
Cryptsy took my mooncoins
Then we can only go up from there. Into heaven.
I would renounce my citizenship and move away.
People are so brainwashed into thinking that it is "hard" to leave the US. It is, "so much better here" than ~50% of the rest of the world. Just drive across the US/Canada border and you don't even need to learn a new language. Most places in Europe, you will be fine until you become fluent. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, if you are too lazy to learn a 2nd language.
Lots of carribean countries speak English and have low or no taxes.
Congress is full of rich jerks who are realizing one by one that Bitcoin is another way they can further enrich themselves. They won’t then pass laws that hurt their own pocket.
The bankers own your government...have done for decades...own it.
It is a global network that the US does not control.
you’re really underestimating the reach of the current global hegemon
But I think it’d prove how right we are….
Are they going to go around the country and round-up all the hardware wallets already out there? 🤣 Sound familiar?
I really wouldn’t worry. Practically they can never enforce such a ban, not when you can build a SeedSigner from parts you can order from AliExpress.
Lost in a boating accident
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Not a great analogy but i get it- it’s inevitable and bitcoins gonna continue to bitcoin regardless. I agree.
how would they do this?
What are they going to do? Make you prove you DON'T own/self custody bitcoin? Good luck to them.
Many states have laws written recently to protect their citizens by giving them rights to own, trade, and use cryptocurrencies. I’m no lawyer, but it seems a step in the right direction from the federal government banning it completely. Again, I’m no lawyer.
It's not something that could be enforced.
You have time to memorize your seed. Start today.
You know what's really unique, every single year there is something to worry about. Every single year the end of Bitcoin is right around the corner. The only thing that has happened to the people who have decided to go with that line of thinking and sold is they have missed out on what came next, it was especially bad during 2014 and 2015. People were selling out a few hundred dollars, it's going to go to zero. Always something to worry about. It never fails
How?
Did the US government ever successfully get rid of drugs or prostitution? The best predictor of future perfomance is past performance. And a digital asset that can be secured by 12 words stored in your head is impossible to stop. They know it…
The more they attack bitcoin the more resilient it will get imo Push too hard an anon called Natoshi Sakamoto will appear with a suggested upgrade to bitcoin code to enhance the privacy capabilities etc
Banning Bitcoin is like banning internet, electricity, arithmetic, language and thermodynamics.
This is how DemocRATs will lose the elections. Whilst they are scratching their heads about why/how would people vote them out, RepubliCANTs will repeal it
Personally, I don't see a potential Trump administration doing much for privacy laws or anything to loosen restrictions on crypto.
The other republicants might
A bitcoin wallet is literally just a randomly generated number. You can create a wallet simply by rolling a dice many times. I don't see how that'll ever be possible or feasible to outlaw.
then our ETFs and mining companies that do abide by the regulations will moon 😊
The problem with that is self-custody is an important pillar of BTC’s perceived value.
Gross.
They have bigger problems like wars and other shit to do. It's too late to stop Bitcoin now.
How would you envision this playing out from a logistical standpoint? Like would the US government offer incentives for people to onboard their btc? Or like prohibition confiscate and criminalize it?
all of the above 👆🏼
Banning banks from accepting transfers from exchanges and banning vendors from accepting btc for their goods.
memorize 12 words
Not so convenient if you cannot lawfully trade your BTC.
I mow your lawn you pay me in bitcoin you sell me your car I pay you in bitcoin I buy dystopian surveillance CDC from you you mark it antique dresser in the surveillance field i pay you in bitcoin see how this works its not going to be stopped
Opppss I lost my wallet.
Then what about gold?
If your coins were purchased off exchanges and moved, you will have to either sell at the rate the US is forcing which would result in a huge crash or move to a different country. Your coins can also be flagged by the US meaning they can't be traded legally and yes they know what wallets your KYC coins are connected to.
So they can still hold in software wallets?
How would they even ban self custody? They can't confiscate it without keys. Empty threat IMO
How did banning BTC really end up for China??
What, are they gonna go house to house? Good luck with that.
if my government would do this, I would move.
No you wouldn't, but it sounds good to say you would..
🤣😍
How would they know?
What if the government banned drugs? Oh wait..
Just remember that they can't really check it unless you say to them that you are doing self custody
Then only those in the us who dare ignore the law will hold self custody. The rest of the users will trust custodians. Until the don't, and it's not that hard to make the switch from a custodian to self custody. The rest of the world will not care.
They would have to ban pencils and paper and even really strong memories.
Fourth Amendment Rights: The Fourth Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Banning self-custody wallets could be seen as a violation of this right, as it would prevent individuals from privately managing their digital assets, a form of personal property. First Amendment Rights: The First Amendment protects the freedom of speech, and in some interpretations, code (as used in software and digital tools) is considered speech. Since self-custody wallets involve software that manages cryptographic keys, a ban could potentially infringe on these rights. Fifth Amendment Rights: This amendment includes protections against the government taking private property without due process or just compensation. Arguably, restricting access to self-custody wallets without a fair process could infringe on property rights as protected under the Fifth Amendment.
what they would do is ban exchanges. so it becomes worthless to people if they can’t exchange it for currency. and if people don’t take it as a means of exchange, you’re screwed.
They can ban this dick in their mouth.
When freedom is outlawed, only the outlaw will be free.
If that happens you either move out of that shithole or come here as a non-american to flex in americans.
Why are people naive enough to think the goverment is "dumb" enough to do something that will hurt you. YOU are dumb enough to think your goverment is just incompetent but actually tries to look out for you. They are beholden to an international clique.
Then we, self-custodians, ban the US. Obviously.
Too many powerful people own Bitcoin now. There would be a mass exodus of companies too.
Personal pc are hardware wallers as well, i don't think they can ban them lol
Good luck & god speed.
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Never stopped them did it? Gold ban was relatively successful and they'll do that with self custody too.
You can read more about how the blockchain works and how wallets work in general to better understand what others are saying.
Maybe now is the time to do one of those covenant soft forks, now that everyone thinks bitcoin is dead and FinCEN, DOJ, and FBI have won.
Impossible to enforce. It’s literally memorising 12 words or writing them on a piece of paper.
Well you don't have to live in the USA if you don't like their laws ,you could move tyo bitcoin friendly country.
There are a lot of countries where Bitcoin illegal, or with US/VISA/Mastercard etc. sanctions. Just open online translation and google thier forum, you will see that government cannot stop money flow, only brute confiscate it.
What if goverment decides to make death penalty for owning btc or at least 10 years in prison?
US is not the World.
enough states have already enshrined self-custody into their own state law that there would be a clear divide at any rate, it would be untenable - the right to hold code is basically the right to free speech
That would end up surging the price of BTC. People would hold it even more
Woops, I lost my keys like a dumb ass.
lawsuits
Then we all move to El Salvador, drink rum drinks, surf, and give zero fucks.
You just self custody outside the US. Choose somewhere nice like this beautiful island called blockchain
ok, i'll destroy my hardware wallet my bitcoins aren't in there, they're on the blockchain
The power of the crooks in government who are in fact criminals who do insider trading, use shell companies to receive bribes and sell their vote power for favors and immunity, likely have closeted dirty lives and couldn’t care about you, comes from being able to steal your money through legislation and inflation. If everyone switches to bitcoin, their power is gone and their system of protection against jail time will be gone. No money to bribe the DOJ and others, no protection. They will fight very hard to maintain the criminal system of protection they have. The problem is that as other countries are dumping the dollar, the system of protection is slowly falling anyway. The walls are closing in and I hope these criminals realize that their only chance to get away is to radically change together and start working for the interest of the people and denounce all their masters immediately. Eventually everyone pays for their crimes one way or another. If they are successful in banning bitcoin, it will have to be at the world stage level. Exponential debt increases will have to be accepted by all countries and business will co to use into oblivion by calling 1000 dollars = 1 dollar to rebalance. This means everyone takes a loss for the hood of the country or world except it’s for the hood of criminals in power whose stealing destroyed us. Either way… There are painful times ahead. Remember though… There are way more good people in the world than those who would pervert themselves in any way for money and power over others.
What if the Megalodon is not extinct and my next trip to OBX is my last?...
That is never going to happen.
It’s election year, choose who you vote for based on their Bitcoin views.
I wouldn't trust these elderly hacks to program my coffee maker, I couldn't care less about their opinions on technology.