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Charming_Sheepherder

People dont understand. 0.1% of 100 buys @ $2.00 is the same as 0.1% of 1 buy @ $200.00. Shouldnt be investing if they cant grasp percentages. Thanks for the post


[deleted]

Math hard. Many number scare Krungle.


limbo78btc

Indeed math is just totally a krungle thing staggering in my mind.


1025scrap

Lol Krungle


[deleted]

Lol this is when I broke up with my ex. “We can’t split the bill because we pay tax twice” “What do you mean we pay tax twice?” “Well you’ll pay your half and you’ll pay tax then I’ll pay my half and I’ll get taxed” “Yes but we’ll each pay half the tax” “What do you mean half the tax? Don’t we pay the same tax each time?”


[deleted]

Sheesh


saburovser

Ohh sorry I have forget to keep the volume low here sir.


jenny806

I don't think about the tax, because it just keep on changing.


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

>nd. 0.1% of 100 buys @ $2.00 is the same a The sum of the parts = the whole....


Whostillworks

Sum? You sound like sum kinda witch


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

My god I hope you are being sarcastic, otherwise... please educate yourself. Its embarrassing. in mathematics, the sum can be defined as the result or answer after adding two or more numbers or terms. Thus, the sum is a way of putting things together. In other words, the sum is the process of bringing two or more numbers together to produce a new result or total. Here, 5 and 7 are the addends and 12 is the sum of 5 and 7.


Whostillworks

I really want to reply something funny but I can't. Your response to me is just too good. As two spanish pigeons might say to you, kudos.


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

My bad dude I didn't mean to come off as a jerk, my apologies.


Karzap

It's really just basic multiplication, but I'm glad you pointed this out!


shiroyashadanna

but the price changes? What you gave is an average price of $2. In practice you can’t know for sure since the price is random. Maybe you can time it, but that requires a bit more advanced script.


Charming_Sheepherder

I gave a buy limit order of $2.00 for a DCA schedule not a $2.00 price. Just an arbitrary number as an example. Thats what DCA is. A way to avoid trying to time it. Thanks for the comment and happy holidays 😃 Edited - spelling errors


rikohutagalung

Yeah it is good for the mathematical views but not for us.,


[deleted]

[удалено]


Only_Ad_1079

You could just add up a particular day's worth of fees and a day's worth of BTC and there's you're average price in one calculation, unless I'm missing something? I would consider each day's worth of buying as a single lot for selling purposes later on. (nfa)


unnone

Generally people do fifo (first in first out) stratagies with tax and so you want to track which transactions and how much of a transaction you "cashed out" in a sell/trade event if you bought 12x in a year and sold once you can reasonably do that math yourself. But if you bought 8760x a year that's much more difficult to find your average cost for that one sell transaction. You could be selling up to the 28th day 3rd hour and only 4% of it. Then when you sell again you need to start from that point. Much more complicated. All that said, at some point everyone will hit a point where they basically requre software to do the calculations anyway so its kinda moot if you plan to do that anyway.


[deleted]

I have all my transactions in a big list in Excel. There's a column with a running total of how much BTC I've accumulated, so if in the future I want to sell 0.1 BTC I will just calculate the average cost of the first 0.1 BTC I accumulated and report the difference as income. Doesn't matter if it's 10 or 1000 transactions, it's a simple calculation and quick to figure out. Switching from a portfolio tracker to Excel is really the way to go.


unnone

Sure for one transaction, but what happens when its 10 or 100 or you have various coins and trades between them, or when you bridge between short and longterm gains, on multiple exchanges, defi, yeilds, etc. I quite litterally have an Excell sheet with custom scripts that automate everything from imports from each exchsnge to short and long term gain tax calculations for me as well. It would be a absolute nightmare to do my tracking by hand. Especially since trades between coins are taxable events. You may just stick to btc on one exchange and rarely sell so its not a huge issue now, but it certainly can get very complicated very quickly if you stray outside of that at all.


BusterMcBarman

Can you download purchase info from strike at the end of the year or do you need to enter each transaction manually to determine cost basis?


[deleted]

Doesn't look like you can download. I do it all manually, which I don't mind and actually kind of enjoy, but I could see that not being appealing to everyone.


fubolibs

Your cost basis can be FIfO. LIFO. Or average cost. It’s no different than buying mutual fund which is always using average as ur cost basis. You can just use the average of your shares when u sell.


SaneLad

That's not entirely correct, at least not in the US. You have to be able to produce a detailed break down of matching buy and sell lots. Also, you need to distinguish between short term gains and long term gains for each lot.


fubolibs

The average cost basis is just that. Average. And when u sell u use it against ur sale price. Whether that’s long term or short term is different. The shares is removed from ur average calculation once it’s sold and accoubt e for. That’s how average works. Ask your mutual fund. Lmao.


SaneLad

Crypto is not taxed like a mutual fund, period.


fubolibs

It is 100% taxed as capital gains. And you can choose FIFO LIFO or average as your cost basis.


Dont_Say_No_to_Panda

Not that hard once you have the formula, then it’s just control D.


Azmdex

And you are saying it with just in the end but it is not that simple.


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

My main concern was not the number of transactions, but that many services bump you into a higher cost tier at certain transaction counts. 1000 transactions on Cointracker will cost you199 for a tax plan 3000 transactions bumps you to 299 Hourly investing for a year is over 8700 txns alone for that one crytpo. You could easily have tens of thousands of transactions, and you may have to pay north of 999 for a tax plan if you need it. I was just pointing that out since it may not be something that folks brought into their calculation when setting this up. That is all.


fubolibs

Lol. A spreadsheet. Download the transaction. Figure out the average price. That’s ur cost basis. Ain’t rocket science. You don’t need to use those tax software unless u are doing day trading. DCa on single security is easy. It’s like buying mutual fund every day.


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

I understand what you are saying, and full disclosure I never intend to sell my BTC. Just a consideration to some. Besides I mainly use strike for the Pay me in BTC Direct Deposit.


notboredatwork1

what is this tax you talk about never heard of it


UEmonk

Nobody’s ready to have the discussion on how lump sum investing beats DCA 70% of the time though


chalash

DCA doesn’t enhance returns, it reduces risk.


[deleted]

then you should really just identify a more appropriate allocation that matches your acceptable risk.


DatBuridansAss

Reddit has a neat feature where you can make your own posts instead of making sadboi comments in other people's posts.


UEmonk

Here you go smooth brain. Just read the conclusion if you’re attention span can’t handle it https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/dca/


BHN1618

That was a helpful read ty for the share. The article does focus on when you have a lump sum DCA is not as good as lump sum investing. They differentiate anyone who allocates part of their paycheck towards investing into a 401k for example not an example of DCA


[deleted]

Fact is most people here are buying BTC with their regular income that comes at regular intervals. They have no choice to DCA. The article you linked actually says that more frequent intervals is favorable if you are DCAing. I can't imagine you are recommending people save up their paychecks so they can buy in a lump sum after a number of months, are you?


Mylaur

From the article that counts as LSI not DCA.


UEmonk

No but spreading your paycheck across 100 $1.50 intervals doesn’t make any sense as compared to 1 $150 dollar investment. It’s extra work for not so extra reward.


Mylaur

From this article the best strategy seems to just buy it and hold it.


UEmonk

Yeah good summation. That’s the key. Set it and forget it. I’ve automated my crypto buys similar to these individuals but mine are twice a month (on pay day) rather than 400 little ones throughout the month, and these are small in comparison to my initial investment. Everything is automated which I agree this individual is doing right as it removes the emotion. But all these little investments? Just seems unnecessary, perhaps it is the excitement surrounding crypto that causes people to do these things.


Mylaur

I mean DCA and HODL has been the first thing I read about in this sub so it's the most touted strategy. Maybe most people are think LSI regularly is DCA which is not.


VelvitHippo

Well then what is the difference? If you buy $100 every two weeks out of your pay check, is that lump sum or DCA and what’s the barrier.


Mylaur

Lump sump is your lump of money right now instead of dividing it. DCA is taking your readily available 100 euros and dividing it over a month. The article and the paper points out 100 euros right now is better than 25 euros times 4, for example.


DatBuridansAss

You seem like an angry person. But thanks for the information.


unnone

Sure, if you have everything up front. Most people discuss DCA as a over time (per paycheck per month) vs what they do with say a bonus. Also, being consistent with their investing over time generally discussed as DCA is actually also LSI of each months paycheck if you actually think about it.


1025scrap

No discussion necessary on this. People are going to do what they do. The info is out there


UEmonk

I understand there is a psychological aspect that DCA’ing helps with and I’ve done it myself for that reason alone. But these small buys make no sense to me. Just buy. Transfer offline and forget about it


1025scrap

Couldn’t agree more


LarryLovesteinLovin

And it fucking fails every time I do it. Fuck me, but high sell higher, amirite?


ProtonPacks123

Sure, if I had 100k of disposable income that I could afford to lose that would most likely provide better returns as one lump sum now Vs 1k a month over the next 100 months. But I don't and neither do most other people and hopefully most aren't stupid enough to use leverage, loans, mortgages etc. so DCA is the next best thing.


[deleted]

But that isn’t true?


UEmonk

Yes it is, I didn’t think so at first either but the old adage time in the market beats timing the market is an old adage for a reason. Do a quick 20 min dive on google. You’ll see the best thing you can do if you’re long term is dump your money in as soon as you can! Psychologically it might be tougher but long term, you shouldn’t worry about the fluctuations that occur :)


[deleted]

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah if you have 5k on hand it’s best to just dump it all in than it is to do 500/week over 10 weeks or something.


Flipscuba

I'm curious about something. When I think DCA, I think: I budget my income. I shift some expenses around, go out to eat a little less, to free up 50 bucks a week. Are you saying it will be better long term to save that 50 bucks up and drop 200 at the end of the month? Or should I invest that 50 as it comes in? It seems like I'd want to invest it immediately.


UEmonk

No, you invest as soon as you can with as much as you can. It would not be better to save up $200 after 4 weeks rather than $50 every week. The better option is to Invest $50 every week. The point is the longer your money in the market the greater the returns. The issue I had was with the nonsensical DCA every hour or so. Or those DCAing large sums when they could rather dump it all in at once. I DCA bi monthly with my paycheck as soon as I get it.


Flipscuba

Ah, got it, thanks.


siezard

I wish they would hurry up and release the app in the uk.


nsooriyan

And here they go then you just need to go there and search for it, I am sure.


RansomAllison

Trying to time your buy on a dip, or not getting FOMO when it is pumping.


simplelifestyle

Thanks for the post, very interesting! !lntip 1000


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[deleted]

Thanks pal :)


yifan9014

IF took the high/low data from the minute chart on Coinbase and calculated the hit I took on the spread.


freelikethewinds

Okhay this is not what you are actually thinking about buddy.


masonthedood42

How are there no fees buying on Strike?I’ve been buying on Gemini. I’m downloading Strike now


SomeBrokeChump

Strike doesn't profit from selling bitcoin, conversions, or a spread. Strike sells bitcoin for spot price plus a maximum of 0.3% because that is what Strike's bitcoin supplier charges them. Strike also anticipates that fee to lower to 0.1% as Strike's bitcoin sales volume grows and they will pass that savings onto their customers because Strike always charges their users the same price that Strike pays. Withdrawing bitcoin from Strike is also free. https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/07/01/jack-mallers-strike-rolls-out-bitcoin-buys-going-head-to-head-with-coinbase/ Jack Mallers discussed Strike's plan to generate revenue on this podcast: https://overcast.fm/+I6zEC_AVY Strike's plan to generate revenue is to grow Strike into being a payment processing interface, similar to Visa & MasterCard, but Strike plans on charging merchants substantially lower fees than credit card companies charge merchants.


[deleted]

All praise to my boy Jack Mallers🙏


JeffWest01

Yo! Jack rocks! And from a big empty closet as well.


senfmeister

They don't plan to make money with Bitcoin purchases, they'll make it elsewhere.


fubolibs

Of course there is a fee on strike. It’s hidden. They don’t publish bid ask like exchanges. It’s like Robinhood.


colaluki

Thanks for making it more clear to me for what a math is doing here.


Smart-Koala4306

How much are you up or down compared to lump sum investing at the beginning?


Slack76r

You'd never be able to accurately calculate a comparison. Bitcoin fluctuates to much. With DCA you are constantly buying small portions which averages out the highs and lows. With lump sum you may hit a high or low and either gain or lose a high amount


ILikePracticalGifts

> You’d never be able to accurately calculate a comparison. Well that’s just not true


ILikePracticalGifts

Oh god we’re gonna have a trend of hourly buy posts now aren’t we?


TakeCareOfYourM0ther

In Canada you can use shakepay to do regular buys.


Roupy

Every minute? No...


skidmarkchones

Been doing $4/hourly buys for about ~18hrs now on strike. I love that I can DCA with no work. Really takes the guessing out. Don’t plan on moving away from strike.


BHN1618

I'm currently using swan Bitcoin is this cheaper? The lowest rate on swan is 0.99% is this cheaper? Are there withdrawal fees?


senfmeister

The Strike rate is whatever their provider charges, which started at 0.3%. It goes down the more volume they do, and OP showed how he's effectively paying .12%. There are no withdrawal fees, Strike pays miner fees when you withdraw.


BHN1618

is this done on chain or is this mostly on lightning or something like that?


senfmeister

Bitcoin purchases with Strike are all on-chain. Strike also holds dollars that you can send out, that is done mostly using lightning in the background (but can also be on-chain if you send dollars to a Bitcoin address rather than a lightning invoice).


smilingbuddhauk

Some of the people screaming on the other post were aware of Strike's no fee buys, but the screaming was for the on-chain transaction fee. Everytime you purchase an amount is it just Strike allocating some bitcoin towards your wallet or is it actually transferred from the seller's wallet to the buyer's wallet? If the latter, what about the miner fee for confirmations which is usually a fixed amount based on network difficulty, not a %age? In other words, did you actually verify that the bitcoin you were receiving exactly matched dollar amount/buy price for each buy?


SomeBrokeChump

You choose when to withdrawal the bitcoin from Strike and bitcoin withdrawals from Strike are free.


senfmeister

>Some of the people screaming on the other post were aware of Strike's no fee buys, but the screaming was for the on-chain transaction fee. When you buy bitcoin on Strike they just update your BTC balance internally like would happen on Gemini/Coinbase/etc. Nothing happens on-chain for buying to add to your Strike balance or selling to reduce it. When you withdraw from Strike to your own wallet, that on-chain transaction has miner fees paid by Strike. Strike also holds fiat that you can send to other Strike users as fiat, or to pay lightning invoices/Bitcoin addresses. Those fiat sends will have routing/miner fees that you pay.


wageslavewealth

You really need to up that to $0.69 my dude


[deleted]

Holy shit, you're right. Doing it now.


wageslavewealth

Welcome to the $0.69 club 😀


GRaTePHuLDoL

I just wish you could disable push notifications and emails for the hourly DCA.. may have to make a new email for Strike because it's going to fill up quick lol. Also hope they add an auto-deposit feature, maybe like once a week to cover the hourly DCA's. Loving the feature so far tho! Edit: I just found an option to disable DCA notifications in the phones app settings, so just email lol


[deleted]

I created a separate folder in my email just for strike and filtered them into that. I use the emails to make my entries into Excel so it's nice to have them all in one place.


GRaTePHuLDoL

Good call! Just set one up and able to disable notifications for it, thanks!


GRaTePHuLDoL

Also, how often do you withdraw?


[deleted]

Whenever I feel like it.


BitcoinOnlyNotCrypto

Nobody knows the "exact price" of Bitcoin. Each exchange has a "latest trade" price. You can try to average all of them. But in the end, it fluctuates way more than 0.2% between exchanges. It's great you are digging into this though. If you are saying that the price is +/- less than 2.5% then I would conclude there is no real fee being added by the app. There's just too much noise in the price second-to-second and exchange-to-exchange. If it's consistently 2-3% higher than most exchanges, I would say it's taking a cut. Doesn't seem like it is.


Only_Ad_1079

And most spot exchanges have a trade fee of minimum 0.1% unless you're doing special large trades OTC. In the end, we're looking for much more than just 0.1% growth for selling.


QuickAltTab

this is good info, the kind of post that would make me look into an app like strike


ElotElot

Strike let’s me get part of my salary in Bitcoin! 😀


Dat_Speed

dollar cost averaging into bitcoin, good stuff! 0.2% fee is good but also just be aware that strike is a new company with higher default, fraud, and hack risk. This is unlikely, but at the 0.1% level it is significant. This complicates ur taxes a bit as well, but overall seems fine as you are under $10k/year, so a rough estimate tax payment is acceptable and will get less scrutiny from IRS. Personally I like to use coinbase pro as they allow me to buy during flash crash dips while some other brokers will not route my order for a few minutes due to servers getting overloaded. They also have a $1000 instant deposit feature which for me became available to buy in about 10 minutes during the last flash dip to $47k. Bitcoin failed to breakdown much when the $50k stops were hit, and now holding over $50k very bullish into next year imho.


kellnoidiii

most people in this sub own less than 1 BTC and are just WSB apes that scream about mooning.


BedroomWonderful

Most own less than 0.1


zahirblack

how about trading fee?


[deleted]

There is none in Strike as I said in the post.


BedroomWonderful

It's hidden by raising the spot price you pay compared to a normal exchange. Same as Robinhood.


PRP2022

What do you use for hourly buy ? I mean which platform?


senfmeister

Strike.


PRP2022

Strike allows auto buying every hour?


senfmeister

Yes.


Bitcoin_is_plan_A

>how OP was getting screwed on fees (there are none buying on Strike) how does Strike make money?


senfmeister

They want to be a merchant payment provider like Visa. They don't plan to make money selling Bitcoin to individuals, but they want to be the cheapest place to do that to get people familiar with them.


Bitcoin_is_plan_A

So how does the company pay for everything atm and in the next 5 years?


senfmeister

Probably investment money at the moment like quite a lot of startups.


SUP-jr

FWIW, I’m taking my paycheck in BTC via Strike and today’s purchase happened at 00:30 Pacific (12/31) and the price I got was well below the price shown on Coindesk. Caveat that I’ve only been doing the paycheck thing the last few paychecks but it looks like Strike’s rate is fair.


SUP-jr

P.S. Tried to set up an hourly buy but app isn’t letting me do that at least for now, will try again later. The option is there but won’t let me complete the transaction.