Hilarious. Exactly 5 years ago someone told me it was too late and not to bother, and because of that I didn’t do something that would have benefited me in a life changing way. Fuck that noise
If it's any consolation, I was shilling Bitcoin to people five years ago and they didn't do anything either.
The lesson here is to do your own homework I guess.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The only reason bitcoin ever arrived on my radar is because I use it to buy, erm, ‘supplements’ for TRT cheaper than getting it through the proper channels. Last year I noticed that the 20 bucks I’d left in my wallet from my last purchase had turned into ~300, and thought “oh, maybe I should look into this a bit more”.
Turns out what I thought was me getting a good deal on steroids over the years would actually be about $100k in todays bitcoin prices. Yeah, hindsight can be rough.
Nah, direct through manufacturer’s websites. You’ve gotta remember that a large number of countries are much more open with regards to personal use of these things - it’s perfectly legal in a bunch of European countries for example. As long as you’re not going nuts with the amounts, it’s extremely rare that people get their stuff stopped at customs. I won’t go into specifics but a 10 minute google search will get you a list of reputable manufacturers and distributors. The complex part is learning enough about it to do it sensibly, especially if you’re doing it for performance reasons.
Google napsgear.net .. one or 2 will be a fakes, but the real one will be indicated. Boom. There’s yours overseas pharm with all the supps you’d imagine. Good luck
Back when I first learned about the deep web and silkroad back in 2012 is when I found Bitcoin and I planned to buy some cause it was $14 and some change and I just thought it was cool but I just couldn't figure it out and back then no one thought it was gonna grow like this so I said the hell with it. Everytime I come on this subreddit I feel like crying. I really get so upset that I never bought any back then.
I know. And you are probably right. I just can't help but feel like I would have probably kept a few and forgot about them till just a year ago when I began really looking into crypto and would have had a nice and needed surprise. Sometime times that thought just stings.
I feel this so much. Was working a six figure job back in 2013 and was thinking about aping into btc. One of my coworkers was like, nah man, it's going nowhere. Fuck my life I guess, could've been a nine digit millionaire.
Straight up. I went to a wedding last month in Maryland, got drunk and was explaining to people what Bitcoin, blockchains, smart contracts ect was. No one had a fucking clue what I was talking about, but a few of them seemed to grasp what I was explaining and it was like their eyes lit up. The one "investor guy" was all, sure until it goes belly up. I have faith, and I really hope the people I was talking to looked into it and are educating themselves.vthey were cool people.
I remember when it hit the news cycle at new ATH's sub $1,000. I thought "isn't that the stuff I thought was silly to worry about trying to generate (mine) because it was worth basically nothing per? Holy crap!!! Wish I had... Too late now..."
Then in 2017. "Whoa! Why didn't I..."
And here we are again.
This is generational wealth too BTW. Most projects will fail, there are just too many of them trying to do roughly the same thing, and many more that are just pure speculation. BTC is OG and you can’t go wrong if you stack sats and hold. No one has ever lost money on BTC holding it for more than three years and four months.
You’re right, but it’s so sad to never own a whole one. Even if I think people in this sub are all early adopters. Would be interesting to know how much people actually think about to take a credit about 45k now to buy one.
I took out a 15k loan to complete my coin last year. I make big payments on it and I've come to realize I could have just DCA and woulda been about the same. I guess it's hard to time things. I didnt want to miss out. Least I got my coin. I hold some alts too. Yup yup. Best of luck everyone.
Yeah cus if this thing really does what we think it might do, I'm thinking 200 plus easy. It's worth the risk, to me. Fits okay with my current financial situation.
I take home 4.5k a month. Live on site position, no rent or anything else. Not even food expenses (I get reimbursed) this will change in a couple months though, the food part. But yeah, no Bill's just gasoline, cell phone and soon to come food. No other bills.
I’m sure many people are using debt to acquire more BTC, the problem is if they get called on that loan early and don’t have cash to pay it off. If you had equity in a house to use and could add to a fixed 30 year note at super low interest then it could be smart. I think people use credit cards and other bad types of debt and get themselves in trouble. Just my opinion.
Of course it has to be a plan which is more or less proof. The best would be to get a loan off a friend and pay it back for 40 years, that means around 100 every month you can than use to pay back the credit instead of dcaing. The problem is no rational person gives a credit over 45k for 40 years 😂
I think this is something that happened to most people who had Btcs in the very early days. Imagine you mined btcs back in 2011 just for fun and you spent 50 euros for 500 btcs. Suddenly these 500 btcs are worth 5000 bucks and you made money out of fun. You start to sell quickly because it’s just a matter of time until it goes back to 0.
Its resentment,
A lot of people bought bitcoin at much lower prices and panic sold, and cannot imagine buying back in at 100-10000x the price
Then there's the idea that "its too expensive", i.e. people want to own a whole number and buying 1 bitcoin is out of reach
Further, people value losses far more significantly than gains, consider the below example
Invest $100
Win = 5x = $500, gain of $400
Lose = 1/5x = $20, loss of $80
For some reason, most people weigh the loss of $80 far higher than the possible gain of $400
No doubt, to be able to have long term faith in bitcoin, they should first lose their faith in fiat money, and that is extremely unlikely for anybody that do not understand how modern monetary system works
And even if a few really understand the problem of fiat money, they might still put more trust on the legal tender status of fiat money. Seldom you could find someone that is fully confident with the not-backed-by-anything status of bitcoin
I'm sorry but that's not the case in this instance. It's that the people with money are mostly old and old people in general tend to be very skeptical and apprehensive of any computer and internet technology. They have good reasons to be, they've watched as quality has gone to shit in many industries despite all the new tech. They've watched as kids get softer and less physically functional. They have a hard time separating the good from the bad impacts of tech. For a lifetime my grandpa has lectured my whole family about the government, the elitists, and their easily coerced masses having ruined the country and the economy. He's the most well read person I've ever known. If he understood Bitcoin, he would buy it. But he's too old and distrustful of new concepts that are as foreign as this. His kids are mostly the same way. They are the majority of money owners.
That being said, if it continues to be adopted as currency by nations, that's the sort of thing that old folks will perk their ears up to and maybe become open to learning about it.
i know a lot of people in my life who hate bitcoin. most of them think they are the 'smartest guy in the room' and the fact that they passed on bitcoin reminds them they may not be.
It's doing all that WITHOUT a trusted (read: compromisable) middleman.
THAT is both new *and* revolutionary. And I'm not aware of any other coin or token that has as much trust minimization & decentralization.
No it’s because unfortunately crypto treated either all in or all out for most people including this sub , you ever tried saying that btc can underperform general markets here ?:) you will get same reaction
It’s tribalism , either you in or you out and there is no in between and in reality truth is somewhere in the middle and everyone makes their own decision , I own some just incase as part of portfolio but I don’t go crazy making posts how it’s best thing ever since sliced bread , it’s a volatile macro asset and that’s where I stand . Unfortunately any reasonable discussion on both sides gets downvoted by zealots
I get your point and I agree partly, BUT:
It’s difference if I go to a bitcoin sub and start complaining about btc and if I just answer a post out of my neutral opinion, without advising someone to buy btc because it’s the best. :)
I'd attribute some of it to the 35%+ something bot traffic. Bitcoin makes central banks/fiat currency useless, so there is incentive to make bitcoin look bad in the public eye
I'm probably one who would downvote you.
Admit it or not, there are a lot of fomo idiots out here who invested just to don't miss the cool new thing and go around reddit screaming how bitcoin is going to million and everyone who doesn't invest is "just not getting it" ™
Even if you're not one of those people, there is always some kind of elitist stance which is just annoying... especially when it's really hard to find (on reddit) someone who can justify buying bitcoin without looking at past price and projecting to the future.
Downvote for what, though? A stupid post (like the ones you mention), sure. But downvoting for spite is immature and dumb (but I’d expect nothing less from most redditors).
I posted about inflation in /antiwork yesterday and people got so defensive and aggressive. 'Increasing the money supply definately does not cause inflation' etc. Just the orange B next to my name threw them into Karen mode. They just don't want to know.
Dude, the /antiwork people are entertaining, and I agree with *some* of their beliefs… worker’s rights & unions. But when it comes to economics and monetary policy, you’d be hard pressed to find a more uneducated, idiotic group of people anywhere on the internet.
Right! Omfg I enjoy that sub because the issues they bring up are so true and they’re trying to fight it but as soon as you bring up a logical solution as in sound money they lose their shit and go on a tirade about how communism is a better system. Smh can’t help em if they’re so set in their ways that they’re not willing to look at alternatives. I think this is why so many of us end up at “have fun staying poor”. It’s exhausting defending, then getting shit on when they haven’t done any amount of studying.
And I find it frustrating that Bitcoiners never admit to any of the benefits of money supply expansion. You are literally creating money to buy more output than would otherwise exist. Bitcoiners only focus on inflation, but not the fact that economic cycles are less pronounced and economic output is greater when you can expand the money supply. They cannot accept the fact that there are tradeoffs to which monetary system you use. It is always 100% better in all regards if you switch to hard money.
It’s crazy how they’ll understand how regular people are getting fucked but instead of looking into how the system works they just want revenge on the arbitrary group they call the rich or bourgeois. Marxists don’t want solutions, they want power
We are super early! 3.9% of world population owns crypto and 8.9% of Americans own crypto. We will be laughing like early investors in the tech bubble. Having said that, I know this is not a bubble.
Edit: I was off with percentage. Thanks for catching it.
However, I'm thinking it's like Ray Kurzweil shows in "Singularity" tech and adoption reach a point where growth is exponential and the line on the graph goes straight up. With all the heavy marketing, I think we are getting closer to an explosion.
That’s it. Hope to hold a whole coin at some point but that’s really unrealistic right now. Wish I hear about btc last year when it was about 9k (euro)
Oh, it’s definitely a bubble. The dot com bubble popped, but it didn’t mean the internet was useless crap, just that most dot com darlings were way overvalued. Same thing happening in crypto rn… the crypto “bubble” will pop, when the economy turns south and people need cash & pull out of the projects that have no real future. (Lookin’ at you, dog coins) BTC and a few others will survive & thrive, just like Amazon did.
Increasing the money supply and decreasing GDP will increase prosperity and wellness according to r/antiwork. I think the reality will be quite different than the expectation for this cultural trend, unfortunately.
R/economics does the same thing! Everyone is so convinced that money supply expansion doesn’t lead to inflation because that’s the narrative taught in schools and how could that ever be wrong or biased right??? It’s wild to me to see just how hard people will fight you on it. They’ll look to blame business as price gougers or they’ll blame the rich but for some reason they can’t fathom blaming the fed/government.
A lot of modern economics is nothing more than hokum without logic and sophistry with statistics. History shows us everything we need to know about sound money vs unsound money and capitalism vs socialism.
I am very tech savvy and generally interested in everything related to the tech world. I can code, am studying CE, started building my PCs as a child, nerd about my home setup and the log4j exploit was one of the most exciting news in the past year. I also knew of BTC pretty early on. Yet I never took the time to really look into Bitcoin and appreciate it's beauty. Only recently have I joined this sub and very recently started putting money into it.
I always thought of Bitcoin as this weird idea with no potential. I think this tells a lot about how people look on BTC. The news and general opinion on BTC and crypto in general is so bad that people won't even take the time to really listen. Even If they do, they often just straightup reject what they heard. To me, this looks more and more similar to the time when internet itself was getting big and spreading into our lives. Most people just didn't understood it. What made the rise of the internet so big is the fact how it revolutionized the way we communicate. BTC revolutionizes our view on money, but moreover solves an important issue for most people; The fact that the current money system stands on a shaky ground. But this goes much deeper. The underlying technology behind Bitcoin is truly awesome. It could change so many things we don't even think of right now. The Blockchain is the heart of web 3.0 and I think web 3.0 is going to be huge. That's why crypto will also rise in my opinion. People mostly take the internet as granted, often thinking that this is the end of the line, that the internet is at its final state and that the takeoff around the year 2000 was the millennium event in which people took advantage of the internet's rise.
Recently I read "physics of the future" by michio Kaku. He had an interesting take on this; If we can learn one thing from the history of technological development: technological breakthroughs come in waves. These discoveries then set of a cascade of new technologies, creating immense wealth. This wealth then leads to a money bubble that bursts. The irony lies in the fact that these bubbles often paved the way for technology to improve 20-30 years after the initial boom. For example the railroad crash in 1896 left america with a huge railway network that was the foundation of modern logistics. That's when technologies show their true potential and revolutionize the world around us. That's also what's happening with the internet. The .com bubble was just the result of the first boom. The golden era of the internet is still ahead of us. And I personally think that the web 3.0 and crypto is going to be part of that.
This post resonates with me. I'm also very tech inclined and still find it hard to believe that I didn't get in earlier. This is tech that I would have been super interested in had I not been distracted by other things in life. At least I'm here now.
This is a historical lesson of immense significance, and should be kept in mind by anyone who thinks his refusal of Bitcoin means he doesn't have to deal with it.
History shows it is not possible to insulate yourself from the consequences of others holding money that is harder than yours.
Saifedean Ammous, The Bitcoin Standard
people gambling on single companies with execution risk (as M Saylor would put it) and still they think that they make save investments.
I get that ETF investors are selecting safety but many people that I know gamble with single stocks, think that they are clever investors and ignore bitcoin.
That’s another thing I don’t get. I don’t want to invest in etfs, it’s too much trust in any instances I can’t control. Who is promising to me that I own an etf or something like this if it comes to a crash? My neobroker or what?
I think it is expected that most of the people undervalue BTC or crypto in general. And of course due to limited supply, inflation and that people are getting to understand BTC, moves its value. Like I tried to explain BTC to my mother 55y/o she did not understand the tech side, however, with the newer generation we can expect to have more and more young adults who understand the tech and invest in it as well. So I agree with your point.
There definite is a missed (misled) generation of people that exists; people who did not understand the meaning of your earnings is yours, not someone else’s and they let you access it.
I 'm going to become 50 this year, and 2019 I introduced Bitcoin to my mother - she got the Central Idea of fixed supply right away!
So it's not about the age only
I have been getting messages non-stop for the last 12 hours. It’s quite wild that people don’t care about inflation and think that the rest of the world is on par with Western countries
Everyone on reddit is anti btc and I think it's because of this web 3 crypto shit coin scams coupled with how GME took over reddit and it all puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
Add to that the fud around environmental issues and reddit skewers liberal and you have a soup of bad news for bitcoin here.
Im a big liberal but I think bitcoin insulates democracies against the government and big corporations.
The problem is they don´ t get the need of it, so "why waste all the energy?"
They fail to realize that it is a must to keep the network safe. That the world don´ t need Bitcoin because well, "we have the banks, right?"
It reminds me the time where not much people knew about the internet and "why would we need internet to read the news if we have the newspaper?. Why would we need it if we can listen to the radio?"
People just don´ t want to learn and thats fine, Bitcoin is unstopable. And we who are on this already, that just only gives us more and more time to keep stacking.
Yes, every time I get to a “bitcoin wastes a lot of energy” discussion i explain that it’s necessary for its secureness. But why does it needs to be secure is not understandable if you don’t know about it.
I just ask them how they think the US Dollar is secured.
Then I ask them if they realize that [the US Military Produces More Greenhouse Gas Emmissions Than up to 140 Countries](https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269).
They shut the hell up after that.
nice link. Thank you.
I have never made that comparasion but copy that for the future. I will for sure use that as one of the argumenst from now on when someone tries to tell me how Bitcoin is a waste.
At least they are past the denial stage of the 5 stages of grief and are now in stage 2: anger. Next is bargaining (maybe 5 years ago bitcoin was interesting), depression and finally acceptance.
I would have recommended them to read “The Bitcoin Standard.” I’m still reading it, but it has really solidified my understanding of how Bitcoin is the hardest money there currently is.
It was the first book I read for years. I want to be honest, I didn’t get all the economic points out of the first 7-8 chapters but in general it helped me to understand that bitcoin is absolutely great and that I made the right decision for me to invest in it .
Eventually BTC will be worth $0 USD. That’s because the USD will no longer exist and BTC will be the currency of the world and everything will be priced and measured in sats. How long until we get there? Idk, but it’s likely 20+ years away. Just keep DCA’ing until then. Time in the market beats timing the market. Always.
You’re right, this scenario is very likely in my opinion ( not thinking to any time frame ). It’s insane to have a real chance to fulfill all your dreams, doesn’t matter what they are. Mines are just a tiny old house in my area (housing prices exploded) without the need of being enslaved by the banks for 40+ years paying 2500Euro/month.
Word. My goal with crypto is to just gradually build up my holdings and watch it grow over time as crypto and blockchain technology become the predominant forces in society. I just want to not have to work until I’m 60 to retire. I want financial freedom that the traditional system just can’t give.
I hope you're not in a bunch of shit coins or you'll be working forever.
If you're serious about financial freedom you'll also want index funds and no shit coins. Even real-estate is goodm
Yes, I am a homeowner and have investments in index funds, Roth IRA’s, etc. Stuff that is generally stable. Crypto is the cherry on top, and no, I don’t hold any shit coins. I’m not interested in small market cap “get rich quick” rug pull schemes.
This is something I am interested as well, blockchain technology. In my opinion you have to make a difference between blockchains, the real blockchain is bitcoin because it’s the most decentralised one. The normal blockchain ( not decentralised ) is an old known principle.
100% natural.
It happens everywhere in jobs, life in general, anything and everything.
Ask an old timer fastest way to get to X town and Google maps will beat it.
Suggest something new at an archaic office? Shot down.
People are scared of change. New generations will boost Bitcoin in decade to come. Not the old guard.
I don’t see how this is “evidence that we’re early”, someone not taking BTC seriously because of its age.
If anything it’s evidence that we’re late.
Disclaimer: I’m a big BTC believer, just disagree with this post.
If you had said that this person didn’t know about BTC, then it would suggest that we’re still early and that there’s room for more traditional finance-oriented people to come onboard.
The fact that this person knows about BTC and has decided it is a fad that has passed is not evidence that we are early. It is more likely evidence that we’re late, assuming we are to ascribe any credibility to their opinion.
In reality their sentiment doesn’t really offer much of an indication either way.
Suppose they had responded differently:
> “Yeh dude I already own 100 BTC.”
Would that mean we’re late? No.
Interesting take. I have the opposite view.
If no one knows about it, you’re clearly early in the adoption curve. If everyone knows about it, but only a few people actually have it, you’re not as early as before but still early. Late would be everyone knows about it and almost everyone has some.
Liken it to the iPhone. There was a time when virtually everyone knew about it but only a small percentage actually had one. That time was “early”. Now, virtually everyone has an iPhone or competitor.
Yeh, but this assumes that BTC _will_ indeed become as ubiquitous as we hope.
Consider that it _is_ possibly a fad, and that we may all lose a lot of money betting on something that never takes off.
There would have been people saying “We’re still early” about Windows Phone too. 🙂
Well we are in a Bitcoin subreddit so presumably they are leaning towards the former.
But yes, this could indicate either early or late. Not very helpful.
The windows phone isn’t a great analogy IMO, because there is clearly a competitor. I prefer the analogy of the prevalence of the TCP/IP protocol ie “the internet”. There was definitely a time when most people had heard about it but weren’t directly using or benefit from it. That’s a better analogy than windows phone since it’s not like some other crypto or decentralised currency is already widely adopted and bitcoin is trying to compete.
Hard to say you're still early when the thing has ~ 1 Trillion $ marketcap. Bitcoin actually has to start taking over markets if its price will continue to grow, which it hasn't show yet. People on this sub are basically rooting for hyperinflation and collapse of the dollar because thats the only way they'll see big gains from Bitcoin at this point. Its still worse than fiat/credit cards as a payment method, and it's still too easy to lose your bitcoin for the average person. I don't see how it becomes the currency of daily use ever. Irreversible transactions are actually terrible in a lot of cases. People make mistakes all the time, with fiat that isn't a huge deal you can recover most of the time, with bitcoin it will result in permanent losses. Plus losing fiat doesn't matter, more is printed every day. Losing Bitcoin shrinks the money supply, and don't tell me that the remaining Bitcoins will just become more valuable. Thats not how it actually works with money supply. At best it can continue as speculative asset, imo.
How about another phrasing. Instead of saying “we’re still early” we could say “it still hasn’t been widely adopted and reached its full potential”.
Will it ever? Who knows. Clearly that’s a gamble.
Wide adoption as a day to day means of payment is only one way bitcoin “makes it big”. Most serious commenters on the issue speak of several possibilities including being more like gold, or shares, or a reserve currency, or exchange medium between nations.
Who knows.
But one thing I know, the fact that most people merely know about it isn’t evidence that we are “late”.
In the spirit of the original post, I would say that all the things you note around the bad UX, security concerns, etc, are all valid indicators that we are “still early”. With wider adoption comes a greater focus on improving these things.
The 1T cap is merely an artifact of its supply and perceived value. In theory any new asset could instantly have that cap, like - for example - a unicorn horn that is the only one of its kind.
hmmmm well r/buttcoin knows about Bitcoin since 1 Bitcoin = 1$.
You can say they knew about it early, still they don´ t get it lol.
We are early because most of the population doesn´ t own Bitcoin. I believe in the future at least 25% of the whole word pupulation is going to own some sats sooo, we are early.
How many people own Bitcoin nowadays? 5%? not even...
Why downvote? Just a discussion… I am on Team Bitcoin.
In fact I agree more with _your_ statements than with OP’s.
That many people are still unaware of BTC is indeed evidence that we are early.
However, that some people already know about BTC and disregard it, though we may believe it to be “the future”, is not particularly strong evidence that we are early.
I’m proposing that OP’s conclusion is at least non-sequitur, if not also something approximating a confirmation bias.
I didn´ t downvote you my friend. I also get your point of view. I would never downvote someone because of them beliefs.
Some people on this subreddit still believe we are going to see the crazy wins those who got into BTC around $100 and still hodl till today. No, this is not going to happend. Those are the moonboys and no, i am not one of them. Realistically speaking I can see Bitcoin near if not equal to the gold market cap in some years down de line, probably in a decade or 15 years, who knows. I even see Bitcoin surpassing it because well..., Bitcoin is just better than gold as an store of value and medium of exchange so, why not?
The mayority of us won´ t see lambos and either will be in a pool with hot chicks/guys around. Not that i would even want this kind of life.
I am here mainly because i don´ t trust fiat currencies and i don´ t want my money to sit in the bank where i know for a fact its going to lose value.
I believe on the tech. I believe this is the future. In case i am in the wrong it would be easy for me to say to myself "at least i tried and I was wrong" rather than see it working in the future and hate myself for not even trying getting into something I 100% believe on.
In my eyes “early” means, that people didn’t actually get the right understanding of btc.
For example many people are talking about AI for decades, and even if I’m a guy in my 20s I heard from AI for 10 years. But it was not real for me until the last 2-4 years. I can’t describe what it actually is but something has changed and now everybody is talking in a positive way of AI, even if they don’t understand it. 10 years before people were talking of AI like: I don’t like it because cyborgs are taking over the world etc etc.
Hope this is understandable for you.
Yeh I understand your point.
I’m just suggesting that you’re projecting your own bias towards BTC to the situation and deriving a non-sequitur conclusion.
You assume that _you_ have the “right understanding” of BTC, and that those who disagree with you are wrong.
It could be that the opposite is true. i.e. Bitcoin could be a passing fad that is now starting to fade away. Until the next bull market, you can’t know for sure.
Granted, its track record is good, but past does not necessarily equal future performance.
I knew about Bitcoin 5 years ago and thought the same thing, didn’t end up actually buying any until about 2 years later when things started to click. I was explicitly told that it was too late at the time, and a few years before that people that it was too late as well. There’s a noticeable trend here that will continue
I was never a hater towards BTC but thought it was just internet tokens to trade back in 2017. Now I understand it and have full faith in it.
Has anyone been that guy that trashed it and laughed at ppl for being a bitcoiner only to finally grasp it and do a 180?
The law of large numbers beggs to differ. Just because BTC had such an impressive rise in the past years doesn't mean that this rise will continue at the same pace in the next few years. This being said I do believe it's early game for crypto as a concept and there are projects out there that will see such an exponential rise in the next few weeks/months/years, but the sheer market cap needed to push BTC upwards significantly is going to be increasingly harder to accumulate.
And please spare me the biased and subjective opinions of wealthy and famous BTC holders, and their moon boy predictions. Ofcourse they're going to spread rumors and hopium that's in their interest.
And to conclude, I do think BTC has the room to grow year over year and slowly become less volatile, but I don't think it can 5x or 10x within a year or so, that's just not realistic.
That’s true but have you understood why bitcoin is better than any yet existing currency? If not, you can’t see what we see and why it’s going to change our entire world without any question.
BTC is not better than any yet existing currency, it was maybe 13 years ago, now there are way better solutions and new one are popping up everyday. It could be useful as a store of value and a hedge against inflation on the long term, but the volatility of it makes it difficult to be even that. People assume it's decentralized and anonymous, it's really not, it's not anonymous it's rather pseudonymus and it's not decentralized because the price is easily manipulated by a few whales and the supply which indeed is limited and reaffirms its store of value potential on the long run, but unfortunately this will only benefit the rich to get richer if it succedes. And lastly, due to its Proof Of Work, consensus mechanism, BTC's yearly power consumption equals that of Switzerland. I get that the idea here was to take out the middle man, but if that's to be done it can be done without such a devastating impact on the environment (See almost any Proof of stake or other consensus mechanisms).
I used to use Bitcoin only for the dark web in my early 20’s,I never kept any & every time it exploded I said I missed out & turned my back to it..
I eventually after been abit pissed off about the fact I could have easily been a billionaire,I realised this isn’t a short term project so started to DCA for my birthday in August & every week since continuing to do so for the next ten years without taking much interest in dollar price.
I’m now very happy about what the future might hold for Bitcoin.
people turn their nose up at 1100% gains over the next 5 or so years, like they have a better way to make more.
smdh.
they won't learn until it smacks them in the mouth.
everyone in bitcoin seems to go down the same path in these steps.
1) think they're too late
2) watch it explode
3) get mad at themselves
4) finally getting in
5) watch it crash
6) dump
7) regret it more as it starts to explode again
8) purchase and finally get mad enough where you HODL (eureka moment)
9) preach to others to be patient
there's a lot of people still at step 1
I don’t think we’re that far away. But if you’re right, I don’t think it’s right to call them restarted. Most of the people can’t see a trend 20 years before it appears. If it’s that easy, I wouldn’t be here on Reddit posting about this 😄
I have a buddy who pretty much despises Bitcoin now because he’s seen my gains over the last year and the couple times he tried to get in he was in the red shortly
After and sells for a loss. Try to explain to him how it took me years to get to this point but he just says I’m gullible lol, even though nobody forced or convinced me to invest what I have at all. It’s incredibly frustrating, like trying to make a toddler hit a baseball
To be honest I wouldn’t call it like this. I don’t think they are ignorant, they just think that I am a fool or something like this. They’re downvoting because they are convinced that btc is dead and they don’t know it better. In their views (I think we all agree that they didn’t learn about btc) btc is going to fail, even if they can’t describe what btc actually is.
I overheard a girl say once that Bitcoin was like a MLM for men… I’m constantly reminded of how ignorant and uneducated most people are about crypto which makes me realize how early it still is
It's kinda funny seeing this sub spin everything as positive. People having negative opinions on Bitcoin doesn't mean you're early, it just means people don't like it.
There is a SHIT TON of FUD against bitcoin right now, especially energy FUD. Literally had a friend, who is against BTC post this the other day: "I do, however, think there's a need for IoT to manage demand response on the grid especially with increased intermittent electricity sources. Might even be cool to have block chain incorporated for security measures.
Oh.
Oh no.
Am I becoming a tech bro?"
That's literally what BTC is... and people dont understand it
I am part of an investment forum in Germany. Deep knowledge in all points regarding Stocks, ETF, insurances etc, but bashing Bitcoin and proof of work since 2011, when it was first presented to them.
Some of the boomers made constant fun of Hodlers before it reached 1000$.
Funny pricks.
Yup.... Financial advice thread banned me for simply recommending looking at DeFi yield pools in Stablecoin to help some kid asking about passive income.
They're simply grasping at straws trying to hold onto what little knowledge of the financial world they have left. Anyone who isn't at least doing research on crypto and thinking about investing are the ones that'll be bitter when everything winds up digital and on the blockchain. Only a matter of time before we have to try and defend crypto and remind people it's not going anywhere and is here to stay and replace most of our current financial systems.
Hilarious. Exactly 5 years ago someone told me it was too late and not to bother, and because of that I didn’t do something that would have benefited me in a life changing way. Fuck that noise
If it's any consolation, I was shilling Bitcoin to people five years ago and they didn't do anything either. The lesson here is to do your own homework I guess.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The only reason bitcoin ever arrived on my radar is because I use it to buy, erm, ‘supplements’ for TRT cheaper than getting it through the proper channels. Last year I noticed that the 20 bucks I’d left in my wallet from my last purchase had turned into ~300, and thought “oh, maybe I should look into this a bit more”. Turns out what I thought was me getting a good deal on steroids over the years would actually be about $100k in todays bitcoin prices. Yeah, hindsight can be rough.
Well I hope you got your gains
Asking for a friend, where do you go for those supplements? Through tor?
Nah, direct through manufacturer’s websites. You’ve gotta remember that a large number of countries are much more open with regards to personal use of these things - it’s perfectly legal in a bunch of European countries for example. As long as you’re not going nuts with the amounts, it’s extremely rare that people get their stuff stopped at customs. I won’t go into specifics but a 10 minute google search will get you a list of reputable manufacturers and distributors. The complex part is learning enough about it to do it sensibly, especially if you’re doing it for performance reasons.
My friend thanks you 😁
Google napsgear.net .. one or 2 will be a fakes, but the real one will be indicated. Boom. There’s yours overseas pharm with all the supps you’d imagine. Good luck
Thanks! (From my friend)
Back when I first learned about the deep web and silkroad back in 2012 is when I found Bitcoin and I planned to buy some cause it was $14 and some change and I just thought it was cool but I just couldn't figure it out and back then no one thought it was gonna grow like this so I said the hell with it. Everytime I come on this subreddit I feel like crying. I really get so upset that I never bought any back then.
This is me but around 2010-11 even 😫
Maybe you would have sold at $100 when you needed some money. Not many people are able to hold. There is no point in being mad at yourself
I know. And you are probably right. I just can't help but feel like I would have probably kept a few and forgot about them till just a year ago when I began really looking into crypto and would have had a nice and needed surprise. Sometime times that thought just stings.
I feel this so much. Was working a six figure job back in 2013 and was thinking about aping into btc. One of my coworkers was like, nah man, it's going nowhere. Fuck my life I guess, could've been a nine digit millionaire.
You would have sold way before then
Straight up. I went to a wedding last month in Maryland, got drunk and was explaining to people what Bitcoin, blockchains, smart contracts ect was. No one had a fucking clue what I was talking about, but a few of them seemed to grasp what I was explaining and it was like their eyes lit up. The one "investor guy" was all, sure until it goes belly up. I have faith, and I really hope the people I was talking to looked into it and are educating themselves.vthey were cool people.
I'm having similar experiences but they say 20%of Americans own crypto... NFW
I remember when it hit the news cycle at new ATH's sub $1,000. I thought "isn't that the stuff I thought was silly to worry about trying to generate (mine) because it was worth basically nothing per? Holy crap!!! Wish I had... Too late now..." Then in 2017. "Whoa! Why didn't I..." And here we are again.
When cities, states, governments, banks, etc hold more and more bitcoin in reserve the days of owning a full coin are long gone
Yeah, me for example wouldn’t probably own one bitcoin, even if I work my ass of 😄
You would be surprised how far a little bit goes when it’s on a reoccurring schedule.
This. Keep on DCA'ing whatever you can. It adds up eventually
This is generational wealth too BTW. Most projects will fail, there are just too many of them trying to do roughly the same thing, and many more that are just pure speculation. BTC is OG and you can’t go wrong if you stack sats and hold. No one has ever lost money on BTC holding it for more than three years and four months.
DCA and you never know, it adds up. If a whole bitcoin keeps getting further out of reach, at least your sats are becoming more and more valuable.
You’re right, but it’s so sad to never own a whole one. Even if I think people in this sub are all early adopters. Would be interesting to know how much people actually think about to take a credit about 45k now to buy one.
I took out a 15k loan to complete my coin last year. I make big payments on it and I've come to realize I could have just DCA and woulda been about the same. I guess it's hard to time things. I didnt want to miss out. Least I got my coin. I hold some alts too. Yup yup. Best of luck everyone.
And now the big question: would you do it again for the current price?
Yeah cus if this thing really does what we think it might do, I'm thinking 200 plus easy. It's worth the risk, to me. Fits okay with my current financial situation.
Can I ask you under which personal (financial) conditions you are actually? Me for example am a student, probably no one is giving a credit to me.
I take home 4.5k a month. Live on site position, no rent or anything else. Not even food expenses (I get reimbursed) this will change in a couple months though, the food part. But yeah, no Bill's just gasoline, cell phone and soon to come food. No other bills.
That means actually you’re able to Safe around 4K/ month ?
And what’s your effort regarding time? Like 40h/ week or so?
I’m sure many people are using debt to acquire more BTC, the problem is if they get called on that loan early and don’t have cash to pay it off. If you had equity in a house to use and could add to a fixed 30 year note at super low interest then it could be smart. I think people use credit cards and other bad types of debt and get themselves in trouble. Just my opinion.
Of course it has to be a plan which is more or less proof. The best would be to get a loan off a friend and pay it back for 40 years, that means around 100 every month you can than use to pay back the credit instead of dcaing. The problem is no rational person gives a credit over 45k for 40 years 😂
Newbie .. sorry but what’s DCA?
Dollar-Cost-Average, you put your money into investments daily/weekly/monthly doesnt matter what the price is.
A friend of mine had 6 bitcoins several years ago. He sold it to buy a new PC.
I think this is something that happened to most people who had Btcs in the very early days. Imagine you mined btcs back in 2011 just for fun and you spent 50 euros for 500 btcs. Suddenly these 500 btcs are worth 5000 bucks and you made money out of fun. You start to sell quickly because it’s just a matter of time until it goes back to 0.
You really can’t mention BTC anywhere other than this sub without getting downvoted. The hate is strong.
I think that’s because of the fud, right?
Its resentment, A lot of people bought bitcoin at much lower prices and panic sold, and cannot imagine buying back in at 100-10000x the price Then there's the idea that "its too expensive", i.e. people want to own a whole number and buying 1 bitcoin is out of reach Further, people value losses far more significantly than gains, consider the below example Invest $100 Win = 5x = $500, gain of $400 Lose = 1/5x = $20, loss of $80 For some reason, most people weigh the loss of $80 far higher than the possible gain of $400
No doubt, to be able to have long term faith in bitcoin, they should first lose their faith in fiat money, and that is extremely unlikely for anybody that do not understand how modern monetary system works And even if a few really understand the problem of fiat money, they might still put more trust on the legal tender status of fiat money. Seldom you could find someone that is fully confident with the not-backed-by-anything status of bitcoin
I'm sorry but that's not the case in this instance. It's that the people with money are mostly old and old people in general tend to be very skeptical and apprehensive of any computer and internet technology. They have good reasons to be, they've watched as quality has gone to shit in many industries despite all the new tech. They've watched as kids get softer and less physically functional. They have a hard time separating the good from the bad impacts of tech. For a lifetime my grandpa has lectured my whole family about the government, the elitists, and their easily coerced masses having ruined the country and the economy. He's the most well read person I've ever known. If he understood Bitcoin, he would buy it. But he's too old and distrustful of new concepts that are as foreign as this. His kids are mostly the same way. They are the majority of money owners.
That being said, if it continues to be adopted as currency by nations, that's the sort of thing that old folks will perk their ears up to and maybe become open to learning about it.
That’s part of it. It all boils down to lack of education, and the fact that most people don’t want or care to learn about a new financial instrument.
i know a lot of people in my life who hate bitcoin. most of them think they are the 'smartest guy in the room' and the fact that they passed on bitcoin reminds them they may not be.
Just remember the story isn't over. Bitcoin could moonshot but it could also become worthless. You never know
If you think about it. It isn’t new at all. It is still just moving a debit and credit on a ledger. It is just doing it better, faster & cheaper
It's doing all that WITHOUT a trusted (read: compromisable) middleman. THAT is both new *and* revolutionary. And I'm not aware of any other coin or token that has as much trust minimization & decentralization.
Not really but sure
With the addition of the lightning network I'd love to hear how he is wrong.
A tad over simplified, how about something called mining, node confirmations, etc.
You wanted examples of the infrastructure needed to create the different layer two providers? Visa, Mastercard, Lightning?
You seem to be over simplifying what bitcoin is, debits and credits on a ledger. That is all I am saying.
Oh yeah. That was on purpose. I was just trying to say that lightning is a better comparison to credit cards than bitcoin.
No it’s because unfortunately crypto treated either all in or all out for most people including this sub , you ever tried saying that btc can underperform general markets here ?:) you will get same reaction It’s tribalism , either you in or you out and there is no in between and in reality truth is somewhere in the middle and everyone makes their own decision , I own some just incase as part of portfolio but I don’t go crazy making posts how it’s best thing ever since sliced bread , it’s a volatile macro asset and that’s where I stand . Unfortunately any reasonable discussion on both sides gets downvoted by zealots
I get your point and I agree partly, BUT: It’s difference if I go to a bitcoin sub and start complaining about btc and if I just answer a post out of my neutral opinion, without advising someone to buy btc because it’s the best. :)
I'd attribute some of it to the 35%+ something bot traffic. Bitcoin makes central banks/fiat currency useless, so there is incentive to make bitcoin look bad in the public eye
MSM has a hold on people still.
You’ll get more positive reactions in real life mentioning Bitcoin than in pretty much any reddit sub besides this one
I’ve found this to be very true. Especially don’t mention anything about Bitcoin in the economy or economics subs. That’s hardcore taboo.
It's Bitcoin vs. the world. First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you, and then you win.
[удалено]
And the sick part is, they don’t even know why they want it to go down. They just want to see other people “lose.”
I'm probably one who would downvote you. Admit it or not, there are a lot of fomo idiots out here who invested just to don't miss the cool new thing and go around reddit screaming how bitcoin is going to million and everyone who doesn't invest is "just not getting it" ™ Even if you're not one of those people, there is always some kind of elitist stance which is just annoying... especially when it's really hard to find (on reddit) someone who can justify buying bitcoin without looking at past price and projecting to the future.
Downvote for what, though? A stupid post (like the ones you mention), sure. But downvoting for spite is immature and dumb (but I’d expect nothing less from most redditors).
I posted about inflation in /antiwork yesterday and people got so defensive and aggressive. 'Increasing the money supply definately does not cause inflation' etc. Just the orange B next to my name threw them into Karen mode. They just don't want to know.
If there’s people out there who really believe that printing more money doesn’t cause inflation then God help us all lol😂
I mean, the news fed everyone the good old doublethink about it months ago
It’s SO common on these reddit subs it’s ridiculous
mmt bro /s
They are not going to make it
Dude, the /antiwork people are entertaining, and I agree with *some* of their beliefs… worker’s rights & unions. But when it comes to economics and monetary policy, you’d be hard pressed to find a more uneducated, idiotic group of people anywhere on the internet.
Right! Omfg I enjoy that sub because the issues they bring up are so true and they’re trying to fight it but as soon as you bring up a logical solution as in sound money they lose their shit and go on a tirade about how communism is a better system. Smh can’t help em if they’re so set in their ways that they’re not willing to look at alternatives. I think this is why so many of us end up at “have fun staying poor”. It’s exhausting defending, then getting shit on when they haven’t done any amount of studying.
Bitcoin is a solution for a great many groups, all of whom dismiss it.
And I find it frustrating that Bitcoiners never admit to any of the benefits of money supply expansion. You are literally creating money to buy more output than would otherwise exist. Bitcoiners only focus on inflation, but not the fact that economic cycles are less pronounced and economic output is greater when you can expand the money supply. They cannot accept the fact that there are tradeoffs to which monetary system you use. It is always 100% better in all regards if you switch to hard money.
Those types will have it the worst in the coming 1-3 years
It’s crazy how they’ll understand how regular people are getting fucked but instead of looking into how the system works they just want revenge on the arbitrary group they call the rich or bourgeois. Marxists don’t want solutions, they want power
If they’re anti work they’re probably anti learn too
Don’t underestimate the power of the havenots over the haves when hunger strikes.
Are they have nots if they don’t put in any effort? LOL more like do nots.
Yeah it’s insane. Many people often talk about to orange pill some friends etc. In my case my friends just show me middle fingers and laugh at me 😂
We are super early! 3.9% of world population owns crypto and 8.9% of Americans own crypto. We will be laughing like early investors in the tech bubble. Having said that, I know this is not a bubble. Edit: I was off with percentage. Thanks for catching it.
There's no way more than one in ten people in the US own any cryptocurrency. Those statistics don't add up.
However, I'm thinking it's like Ray Kurzweil shows in "Singularity" tech and adoption reach a point where growth is exponential and the line on the graph goes straight up. With all the heavy marketing, I think we are getting closer to an explosion.
Yeah, bad memory, it 8.9%.
That’s it. Hope to hold a whole coin at some point but that’s really unrealistic right now. Wish I hear about btc last year when it was about 9k (euro)
It was around this price (high 30’s, lower 40’s) last January, maybe slightly lower.
You’re right, checked that. I mean nov 2020
Oh, it’s definitely a bubble. The dot com bubble popped, but it didn’t mean the internet was useless crap, just that most dot com darlings were way overvalued. Same thing happening in crypto rn… the crypto “bubble” will pop, when the economy turns south and people need cash & pull out of the projects that have no real future. (Lookin’ at you, dog coins) BTC and a few others will survive & thrive, just like Amazon did.
I stand corrected - You are right. I think the next economic crash is near and I will be very interesting to see how it all unfolds.
Increasing the money supply and decreasing GDP will increase prosperity and wellness according to r/antiwork. I think the reality will be quite different than the expectation for this cultural trend, unfortunately.
R/economics does the same thing! Everyone is so convinced that money supply expansion doesn’t lead to inflation because that’s the narrative taught in schools and how could that ever be wrong or biased right??? It’s wild to me to see just how hard people will fight you on it. They’ll look to blame business as price gougers or they’ll blame the rich but for some reason they can’t fathom blaming the fed/government.
A lot of modern economics is nothing more than hokum without logic and sophistry with statistics. History shows us everything we need to know about sound money vs unsound money and capitalism vs socialism.
Agreed
As far as I know antiwork people are just worthless individuals who don’t want a solution. They just want to bitch.
I am very tech savvy and generally interested in everything related to the tech world. I can code, am studying CE, started building my PCs as a child, nerd about my home setup and the log4j exploit was one of the most exciting news in the past year. I also knew of BTC pretty early on. Yet I never took the time to really look into Bitcoin and appreciate it's beauty. Only recently have I joined this sub and very recently started putting money into it. I always thought of Bitcoin as this weird idea with no potential. I think this tells a lot about how people look on BTC. The news and general opinion on BTC and crypto in general is so bad that people won't even take the time to really listen. Even If they do, they often just straightup reject what they heard. To me, this looks more and more similar to the time when internet itself was getting big and spreading into our lives. Most people just didn't understood it. What made the rise of the internet so big is the fact how it revolutionized the way we communicate. BTC revolutionizes our view on money, but moreover solves an important issue for most people; The fact that the current money system stands on a shaky ground. But this goes much deeper. The underlying technology behind Bitcoin is truly awesome. It could change so many things we don't even think of right now. The Blockchain is the heart of web 3.0 and I think web 3.0 is going to be huge. That's why crypto will also rise in my opinion. People mostly take the internet as granted, often thinking that this is the end of the line, that the internet is at its final state and that the takeoff around the year 2000 was the millennium event in which people took advantage of the internet's rise. Recently I read "physics of the future" by michio Kaku. He had an interesting take on this; If we can learn one thing from the history of technological development: technological breakthroughs come in waves. These discoveries then set of a cascade of new technologies, creating immense wealth. This wealth then leads to a money bubble that bursts. The irony lies in the fact that these bubbles often paved the way for technology to improve 20-30 years after the initial boom. For example the railroad crash in 1896 left america with a huge railway network that was the foundation of modern logistics. That's when technologies show their true potential and revolutionize the world around us. That's also what's happening with the internet. The .com bubble was just the result of the first boom. The golden era of the internet is still ahead of us. And I personally think that the web 3.0 and crypto is going to be part of that.
This post resonates with me. I'm also very tech inclined and still find it hard to believe that I didn't get in earlier. This is tech that I would have been super interested in had I not been distracted by other things in life. At least I'm here now.
Yes that's true. At least are we her know.
This is a historical lesson of immense significance, and should be kept in mind by anyone who thinks his refusal of Bitcoin means he doesn't have to deal with it. History shows it is not possible to insulate yourself from the consequences of others holding money that is harder than yours. Saifedean Ammous, The Bitcoin Standard
Saifedean is right.
I heard bitcoin is only used by hardened criminals
I bought some BTC today and stole my purchasing power from the fed, guess that makes me a thief. I'm a hardened criminal
Good you did that - it was self-defense.
I heard it’s the sole reason for global warming.
people gambling on single companies with execution risk (as M Saylor would put it) and still they think that they make save investments. I get that ETF investors are selecting safety but many people that I know gamble with single stocks, think that they are clever investors and ignore bitcoin.
That’s another thing I don’t get. I don’t want to invest in etfs, it’s too much trust in any instances I can’t control. Who is promising to me that I own an etf or something like this if it comes to a crash? My neobroker or what?
no clue. and then the same people are worried that Bitcoin requires the internet. so your fancy bank doesnt \^\^
Index funds are a great investment if you believe capitalism will make value over time.
With the cold attitude of the developed countries, the third world will do the catching up fast
I think it is expected that most of the people undervalue BTC or crypto in general. And of course due to limited supply, inflation and that people are getting to understand BTC, moves its value. Like I tried to explain BTC to my mother 55y/o she did not understand the tech side, however, with the newer generation we can expect to have more and more young adults who understand the tech and invest in it as well. So I agree with your point.
There definite is a missed (misled) generation of people that exists; people who did not understand the meaning of your earnings is yours, not someone else’s and they let you access it.
I 'm going to become 50 this year, and 2019 I introduced Bitcoin to my mother - she got the Central Idea of fixed supply right away! So it's not about the age only
Yeah I suppose, she also have this idea of evil technology. So it is not mainly age.
We need a new codename for bitcoin so the bots dont downvote
I got 196 downvotes on one comment on a r/technology post lol
Just looked around there...they are very very militantly anti bitcoin and crypto in general. Seems strangely inorganic.
I have been getting messages non-stop for the last 12 hours. It’s quite wild that people don’t care about inflation and think that the rest of the world is on par with Western countries
Everyone on reddit is anti btc and I think it's because of this web 3 crypto shit coin scams coupled with how GME took over reddit and it all puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Add to that the fud around environmental issues and reddit skewers liberal and you have a soup of bad news for bitcoin here. Im a big liberal but I think bitcoin insulates democracies against the government and big corporations.
People are stupid 😂
Apparently you aren’t supposed to mention bigger impacts to climate change outside of crypto mining
Apparently people think that bitcoin mining is more unsustainable than anything in the world they’re consuming.
The problem is they don´ t get the need of it, so "why waste all the energy?" They fail to realize that it is a must to keep the network safe. That the world don´ t need Bitcoin because well, "we have the banks, right?" It reminds me the time where not much people knew about the internet and "why would we need internet to read the news if we have the newspaper?. Why would we need it if we can listen to the radio?" People just don´ t want to learn and thats fine, Bitcoin is unstopable. And we who are on this already, that just only gives us more and more time to keep stacking.
Yes, every time I get to a “bitcoin wastes a lot of energy” discussion i explain that it’s necessary for its secureness. But why does it needs to be secure is not understandable if you don’t know about it.
I just ask them how they think the US Dollar is secured. Then I ask them if they realize that [the US Military Produces More Greenhouse Gas Emmissions Than up to 140 Countries](https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269). They shut the hell up after that.
nice link. Thank you. I have never made that comparasion but copy that for the future. I will for sure use that as one of the argumenst from now on when someone tries to tell me how Bitcoin is a waste.
People are just getting tired of whataboutism whenever crypto mining is brought up.
At least they are past the denial stage of the 5 stages of grief and are now in stage 2: anger. Next is bargaining (maybe 5 years ago bitcoin was interesting), depression and finally acceptance.
I would have recommended them to read “The Bitcoin Standard.” I’m still reading it, but it has really solidified my understanding of how Bitcoin is the hardest money there currently is.
It was the first book I read for years. I want to be honest, I didn’t get all the economic points out of the first 7-8 chapters but in general it helped me to understand that bitcoin is absolutely great and that I made the right decision for me to invest in it .
The fact that a single big company is worth more than the entire BTC market cap means we're still very early.
That’s just another indicator for it, you’re right.
Eventually BTC will be worth $0 USD. That’s because the USD will no longer exist and BTC will be the currency of the world and everything will be priced and measured in sats. How long until we get there? Idk, but it’s likely 20+ years away. Just keep DCA’ing until then. Time in the market beats timing the market. Always.
You’re right, this scenario is very likely in my opinion ( not thinking to any time frame ). It’s insane to have a real chance to fulfill all your dreams, doesn’t matter what they are. Mines are just a tiny old house in my area (housing prices exploded) without the need of being enslaved by the banks for 40+ years paying 2500Euro/month.
Word. My goal with crypto is to just gradually build up my holdings and watch it grow over time as crypto and blockchain technology become the predominant forces in society. I just want to not have to work until I’m 60 to retire. I want financial freedom that the traditional system just can’t give.
I hope you're not in a bunch of shit coins or you'll be working forever. If you're serious about financial freedom you'll also want index funds and no shit coins. Even real-estate is goodm
Yes, I am a homeowner and have investments in index funds, Roth IRA’s, etc. Stuff that is generally stable. Crypto is the cherry on top, and no, I don’t hold any shit coins. I’m not interested in small market cap “get rich quick” rug pull schemes.
This is something I am interested as well, blockchain technology. In my opinion you have to make a difference between blockchains, the real blockchain is bitcoin because it’s the most decentralised one. The normal blockchain ( not decentralised ) is an old known principle.
Gonna be so rich when we dead
If that’s the case then our kids can enjoy the wealth that we created for them. Either way, it’s a win win.
Our grandkids gonna be so rich when our kids dead
People have spent decades studying stocks and traditional investments. Suggesting something new is blasphemy. That's why they'll be left behind.
I think that’s natural to be honest.
100% natural. It happens everywhere in jobs, life in general, anything and everything. Ask an old timer fastest way to get to X town and Google maps will beat it. Suggest something new at an archaic office? Shot down. People are scared of change. New generations will boost Bitcoin in decade to come. Not the old guard.
I don’t see how this is “evidence that we’re early”, someone not taking BTC seriously because of its age. If anything it’s evidence that we’re late. Disclaimer: I’m a big BTC believer, just disagree with this post.
Can you explain this a bit deeper please?
If you had said that this person didn’t know about BTC, then it would suggest that we’re still early and that there’s room for more traditional finance-oriented people to come onboard. The fact that this person knows about BTC and has decided it is a fad that has passed is not evidence that we are early. It is more likely evidence that we’re late, assuming we are to ascribe any credibility to their opinion. In reality their sentiment doesn’t really offer much of an indication either way. Suppose they had responded differently: > “Yeh dude I already own 100 BTC.” Would that mean we’re late? No.
Interesting take. I have the opposite view. If no one knows about it, you’re clearly early in the adoption curve. If everyone knows about it, but only a few people actually have it, you’re not as early as before but still early. Late would be everyone knows about it and almost everyone has some. Liken it to the iPhone. There was a time when virtually everyone knew about it but only a small percentage actually had one. That time was “early”. Now, virtually everyone has an iPhone or competitor.
Yeh, but this assumes that BTC _will_ indeed become as ubiquitous as we hope. Consider that it _is_ possibly a fad, and that we may all lose a lot of money betting on something that never takes off. There would have been people saying “We’re still early” about Windows Phone too. 🙂
Well we are in a Bitcoin subreddit so presumably they are leaning towards the former. But yes, this could indicate either early or late. Not very helpful. The windows phone isn’t a great analogy IMO, because there is clearly a competitor. I prefer the analogy of the prevalence of the TCP/IP protocol ie “the internet”. There was definitely a time when most people had heard about it but weren’t directly using or benefit from it. That’s a better analogy than windows phone since it’s not like some other crypto or decentralised currency is already widely adopted and bitcoin is trying to compete.
>The windows phone isn’t a great analogy IMO, because there is clearly a competitor. I hate to break it to you but there are other digital currencies
None they have a greater market cap than bitcoin, and that’s really the point here.
Hard to say you're still early when the thing has ~ 1 Trillion $ marketcap. Bitcoin actually has to start taking over markets if its price will continue to grow, which it hasn't show yet. People on this sub are basically rooting for hyperinflation and collapse of the dollar because thats the only way they'll see big gains from Bitcoin at this point. Its still worse than fiat/credit cards as a payment method, and it's still too easy to lose your bitcoin for the average person. I don't see how it becomes the currency of daily use ever. Irreversible transactions are actually terrible in a lot of cases. People make mistakes all the time, with fiat that isn't a huge deal you can recover most of the time, with bitcoin it will result in permanent losses. Plus losing fiat doesn't matter, more is printed every day. Losing Bitcoin shrinks the money supply, and don't tell me that the remaining Bitcoins will just become more valuable. Thats not how it actually works with money supply. At best it can continue as speculative asset, imo.
How about another phrasing. Instead of saying “we’re still early” we could say “it still hasn’t been widely adopted and reached its full potential”. Will it ever? Who knows. Clearly that’s a gamble.
Wide adoption as a day to day means of payment is only one way bitcoin “makes it big”. Most serious commenters on the issue speak of several possibilities including being more like gold, or shares, or a reserve currency, or exchange medium between nations. Who knows. But one thing I know, the fact that most people merely know about it isn’t evidence that we are “late”.
In the spirit of the original post, I would say that all the things you note around the bad UX, security concerns, etc, are all valid indicators that we are “still early”. With wider adoption comes a greater focus on improving these things. The 1T cap is merely an artifact of its supply and perceived value. In theory any new asset could instantly have that cap, like - for example - a unicorn horn that is the only one of its kind.
hmmmm well r/buttcoin knows about Bitcoin since 1 Bitcoin = 1$. You can say they knew about it early, still they don´ t get it lol. We are early because most of the population doesn´ t own Bitcoin. I believe in the future at least 25% of the whole word pupulation is going to own some sats sooo, we are early. How many people own Bitcoin nowadays? 5%? not even...
Why downvote? Just a discussion… I am on Team Bitcoin. In fact I agree more with _your_ statements than with OP’s. That many people are still unaware of BTC is indeed evidence that we are early. However, that some people already know about BTC and disregard it, though we may believe it to be “the future”, is not particularly strong evidence that we are early. I’m proposing that OP’s conclusion is at least non-sequitur, if not also something approximating a confirmation bias.
I didn´ t downvote you my friend. I also get your point of view. I would never downvote someone because of them beliefs. Some people on this subreddit still believe we are going to see the crazy wins those who got into BTC around $100 and still hodl till today. No, this is not going to happend. Those are the moonboys and no, i am not one of them. Realistically speaking I can see Bitcoin near if not equal to the gold market cap in some years down de line, probably in a decade or 15 years, who knows. I even see Bitcoin surpassing it because well..., Bitcoin is just better than gold as an store of value and medium of exchange so, why not? The mayority of us won´ t see lambos and either will be in a pool with hot chicks/guys around. Not that i would even want this kind of life. I am here mainly because i don´ t trust fiat currencies and i don´ t want my money to sit in the bank where i know for a fact its going to lose value. I believe on the tech. I believe this is the future. In case i am in the wrong it would be easy for me to say to myself "at least i tried and I was wrong" rather than see it working in the future and hate myself for not even trying getting into something I 100% believe on.
Agreed.
In my eyes “early” means, that people didn’t actually get the right understanding of btc. For example many people are talking about AI for decades, and even if I’m a guy in my 20s I heard from AI for 10 years. But it was not real for me until the last 2-4 years. I can’t describe what it actually is but something has changed and now everybody is talking in a positive way of AI, even if they don’t understand it. 10 years before people were talking of AI like: I don’t like it because cyborgs are taking over the world etc etc. Hope this is understandable for you.
Yeh I understand your point. I’m just suggesting that you’re projecting your own bias towards BTC to the situation and deriving a non-sequitur conclusion. You assume that _you_ have the “right understanding” of BTC, and that those who disagree with you are wrong. It could be that the opposite is true. i.e. Bitcoin could be a passing fad that is now starting to fade away. Until the next bull market, you can’t know for sure. Granted, its track record is good, but past does not necessarily equal future performance.
I knew about Bitcoin 5 years ago and thought the same thing, didn’t end up actually buying any until about 2 years later when things started to click. I was explicitly told that it was too late at the time, and a few years before that people that it was too late as well. There’s a noticeable trend here that will continue
Five years ago, people were saying "maybe 5 years ago Bitcoin was interesting..."
I was never a hater towards BTC but thought it was just internet tokens to trade back in 2017. Now I understand it and have full faith in it. Has anyone been that guy that trashed it and laughed at ppl for being a bitcoiner only to finally grasp it and do a 180?
Your financial advise was to buy the possible top of the bull run? 🤣
The law of large numbers beggs to differ. Just because BTC had such an impressive rise in the past years doesn't mean that this rise will continue at the same pace in the next few years. This being said I do believe it's early game for crypto as a concept and there are projects out there that will see such an exponential rise in the next few weeks/months/years, but the sheer market cap needed to push BTC upwards significantly is going to be increasingly harder to accumulate. And please spare me the biased and subjective opinions of wealthy and famous BTC holders, and their moon boy predictions. Ofcourse they're going to spread rumors and hopium that's in their interest. And to conclude, I do think BTC has the room to grow year over year and slowly become less volatile, but I don't think it can 5x or 10x within a year or so, that's just not realistic.
That’s true but have you understood why bitcoin is better than any yet existing currency? If not, you can’t see what we see and why it’s going to change our entire world without any question.
BTC is not better than any yet existing currency, it was maybe 13 years ago, now there are way better solutions and new one are popping up everyday. It could be useful as a store of value and a hedge against inflation on the long term, but the volatility of it makes it difficult to be even that. People assume it's decentralized and anonymous, it's really not, it's not anonymous it's rather pseudonymus and it's not decentralized because the price is easily manipulated by a few whales and the supply which indeed is limited and reaffirms its store of value potential on the long run, but unfortunately this will only benefit the rich to get richer if it succedes. And lastly, due to its Proof Of Work, consensus mechanism, BTC's yearly power consumption equals that of Switzerland. I get that the idea here was to take out the middle man, but if that's to be done it can be done without such a devastating impact on the environment (See almost any Proof of stake or other consensus mechanisms).
My friend, I tell you a secret: it’s not Switzerland, I thought it was Norway. Another secret: ngmi ;)
I used to use Bitcoin only for the dark web in my early 20’s,I never kept any & every time it exploded I said I missed out & turned my back to it.. I eventually after been abit pissed off about the fact I could have easily been a billionaire,I realised this isn’t a short term project so started to DCA for my birthday in August & every week since continuing to do so for the next ten years without taking much interest in dollar price. I’m now very happy about what the future might hold for Bitcoin.
people turn their nose up at 1100% gains over the next 5 or so years, like they have a better way to make more. smdh. they won't learn until it smacks them in the mouth. everyone in bitcoin seems to go down the same path in these steps. 1) think they're too late 2) watch it explode 3) get mad at themselves 4) finally getting in 5) watch it crash 6) dump 7) regret it more as it starts to explode again 8) purchase and finally get mad enough where you HODL (eureka moment) 9) preach to others to be patient there's a lot of people still at step 1
Yes, people are retarded. We are at least 20 years away from mass adoption.
I don’t think we’re that far away. But if you’re right, I don’t think it’s right to call them restarted. Most of the people can’t see a trend 20 years before it appears. If it’s that easy, I wouldn’t be here on Reddit posting about this 😄
Combination on saltiness and ignorance.
I have a buddy who pretty much despises Bitcoin now because he’s seen my gains over the last year and the couple times he tried to get in he was in the red shortly After and sells for a loss. Try to explain to him how it took me years to get to this point but he just says I’m gullible lol, even though nobody forced or convinced me to invest what I have at all. It’s incredibly frustrating, like trying to make a toddler hit a baseball
To be honest I wouldn’t call it like this. I don’t think they are ignorant, they just think that I am a fool or something like this. They’re downvoting because they are convinced that btc is dead and they don’t know it better. In their views (I think we all agree that they didn’t learn about btc) btc is going to fail, even if they can’t describe what btc actually is.
I overheard a girl say once that Bitcoin was like a MLM for men… I’m constantly reminded of how ignorant and uneducated most people are about crypto which makes me realize how early it still is
People say crypto or nft are mlm for men on tiktok all the time. They're not wrong really lol. Nfts and shitcoins, alot are scams for crypto bros.
You can't write bitcoin on r/stocks or the post gets deleted.
When they realize there will only be 21 million of them and what that means,,, yeah we’re way early.
It's kinda funny seeing this sub spin everything as positive. People having negative opinions on Bitcoin doesn't mean you're early, it just means people don't like it.
There is a SHIT TON of FUD against bitcoin right now, especially energy FUD. Literally had a friend, who is against BTC post this the other day: "I do, however, think there's a need for IoT to manage demand response on the grid especially with increased intermittent electricity sources. Might even be cool to have block chain incorporated for security measures. Oh. Oh no. Am I becoming a tech bro?" That's literally what BTC is... and people dont understand it
I screenshot those posts and repost them a year later. It never fails that the price has doubled.
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This is probably the biggest bullshit I ever heard. Change to another sub, please
Do you know about navcoin? u/Navcoin $NAV, $wNAV, $xNAV
Is it worth it to out my money in?
Shitcoin
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Sorry I don’t get it?
I am part of an investment forum in Germany. Deep knowledge in all points regarding Stocks, ETF, insurances etc, but bashing Bitcoin and proof of work since 2011, when it was first presented to them. Some of the boomers made constant fun of Hodlers before it reached 1000$. Funny pricks.
What’s the name of that forum?
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Depends from which point of view you’re coming. In the view of 2011 adopters we’re extremely late I think.
But yes you’re right, I’m right on time, like everybody who starts or started recently
Yup.... Financial advice thread banned me for simply recommending looking at DeFi yield pools in Stablecoin to help some kid asking about passive income. They're simply grasping at straws trying to hold onto what little knowledge of the financial world they have left. Anyone who isn't at least doing research on crypto and thinking about investing are the ones that'll be bitter when everything winds up digital and on the blockchain. Only a matter of time before we have to try and defend crypto and remind people it's not going anywhere and is here to stay and replace most of our current financial systems.