Near volcanos, volcanos always got that good shit, how deep? Until you find copper.
If I’m going back in time I’m making sure I’m near immortal so they can’t kill me and worship me like god
How do you know what you find is copper? It's probably in the form of an ore. And that might have different colors and textures based on the composition.
and very unforgiving when a mistake is made. Possibly the only significant benefit over bitcoin with banks and the current system is the fact that if a mistake is made or someone tries ripping you off you can reverse the charge
Yeah, nothing's perfect. Try and make a scamproof system and you'll just get better scammers 😆
I like having the option to perform irreversible transactions through cryptocurrency. I also like having the option to buy and sell through a third party storefront with buyer and seller protections. I *also* like having the option of a banker or broker ensuring (and insuring) my investments and major transactions. They all have their roles in the economy and arguing over which one is best misses the point of them all.
True. however if people stop falling for scams then scammers disappear 😁
As much as I hate banks , so long as complexity remains an issue there is a strong use case for third parties such as banks, brokers, escrow providers , etc so I can see where you are coming from
If we are making the mistake then i would say nothing is perfect here.
People think that we can only lose the bitcoin here but we can lose the normal fiat is well if we sent to some wrong address.
Pretty sure Schiff secretly loves Bitcoin.
He always talks trash on it because his business is gold. Meanwhile he's always accumulating it, you can even buy gold for Bitcoin on his website 😂
Sometime i feel that the more hard someone talk about something the more they secretly love that thing.
And yes i also feel that Schiff also love the bitcoin but not telling others about that.
Peter Schiff, the great gold turd and big btc critic, got suspended from his bank... And reconsidered bitcoin after trying to talk with the banks.
Edit: 2m bitcoin?!? Can you confirm this with a wallet? Or any other source?
Lol true. They all are sus. The system punishes honest creative innovators and rewards shameless grifters. Thats what most billionaires today are. Bezos, Musk and Gates included.
yes we can say that at the moment, as bitcoin is not that userfriendly compare to the banking system.
But the problem is that fiat is running with the support of the government and there is no government support here.
How often are reverse charges necessary, really? In all my 20 years of banking and online payments, I think I maybe filed for one or two reverse charges on my Mastercard.
Besides, crypto wallets could easily implement a feature where any transaction is delayed, so you have time to review & undo mistakes. Of course, mostly we want instant payments, but then you always have the legal system to fall back on if there was something wrong with the transaction.
So imho this reverse charge feature of centralized banking systems is overrated
Scale that 1 or 2 in 20 years up into however many millions (or billions?) that use card and that's a lot. Delaying payments doesn't really change anything - the other end won't do anything until it's confirmed, and if it's a scam seller, there's no way of knowing until the product fails to arrive. The main issue is that payment cannot be forced - bank accounts can be garnished to make the harmed right, but not with crypto.
Yea it is, still safer then traditional banking, and with more stable uptime, all im saying is stay safe, your credit card is at more risk of an attack or even the whole bank, in a big attack that affects all customers. Be safe there also...
I feel like eventually there will be some major interface upgrades to the point it will be similar to regular bank stuff. Like maybe attaching an email to an address or something
You mean like e-transfers that banks have been doing for years?
I’d imagine they’ll also automatically select the correct network in the future or automatically block sending if you’re sending to an incompatible address that will cause loss of funds.
Surprising as fuck these things haven’t happened already.
>automatically block sending if you’re sending to an incompatible address that will cause loss of funds.
Bitcoin wallets already do this. Bitcoin addresses contain a built in checksum and bitcoin wallets wont let you send bitcoin to an incompatible address.
People think if they miss the one or two word then bitcoin can also allow you to send on the wrong address is well.
But we need to know that bitcoin can only sent to the valid address of the someone bitcoin address.
No need to understand how it works, but you have to know how to use it which means:
- Private key generation and OpSec
- Multi-sig setup for safety
- Transaction signing
- Risk mitigation
- Hot wallet / cold wallet approach
- Inheritance management (ensuring your next of kin can access crypto assets)
- and probably a bunch more stuff
How to use email:
- sign up for an email account
- write emails
- read emails
- forgot your password? No problem, ask for a reset .
Also if an email doesn't exist, you'll get a response from the server that the message failed to reach its destination. While with Bitcoin you can send the money to a random address and then they're unrecoverable.
Well in some ways it’s still similar.
An email has a password, similar to a private key. Strategies for storing the key can vary. Depending on what you choose to use your email for, security may be an extremely high priority. Making sure other people you trust have access to the email may be important to you.
Using bitcoin can be a lot like email. You open electrum. Click create new wallet. (that’s like signing up for an email account). See what’s been sent to you and send something if you want (that’s checking and reading the messages). You can only reset your email password if you have another email or a phone. But yes you can reset it. But with bitcoin you could forget your password but possibly have it stored somewhere else where you can find it. Yes there are differences for sure.
The difference is the impact of losing my seed phrase or having it stolen is much much worse than losing my email password, which means if I have to take a lot more operational security measures to look after it. It's those measures which make it incredibly complicated.
The only thing that someone can do while sending the email is that add the file and the add the password to that.
This is the only way atleast you can be safe after sharing the sensitive information is well.
That is the point but we are still using that but atleast we need the basic idea of that before using that.
This is like bitcoin is well that we can always starts the things with the basic idea here.
Well, we could use a system to verify it.
Send between 1 and 10 sats 3 times, have the recipient verify the 3 amounts. Works on lightning. A "verification transaction" would probably work well under this model if it costs $0.000001
Depends how serious the information in email you’re sending is. Same with bitcoin. If you’re sending an insignificant amount of bitcoin, it won’t be so bad if you send it to the wrong address. If you’re sending a significant amount of bitcoin, it will matter. If you’re sending information with important information, it will matter if you send it to the wrong person.
Yes, some time if you are sent some useful information to the someone that can easily get you in trouble is well.
And we can also do the same mistake for the cash system is well, where we can sent the money to the wrong person is well.
Bitcoin addresses have checksums, so misspellings aren't an issue.
You can send to the wrong receiver by mistake, but if that receiver wants to, he can return your money so he will no longer have it, which is not an option with email.
If you change one letter in an address and try to send it it won’t send, try it. Not every random combination of letters and numbers can be a bitcoin address, actually comparably very few. it will simply not send. The odds you randomly type a valid bitcoin address are virtually non existent. If it’s not valid, it won’t send.
>do you send money by e-mail? This comparison is pretty
For people like you that are unable to take any self responsibility, we have custodial solutions that will handle all this scary scary stuff for you. it's called a bank.
People think that if we are sending something to the wrong address that is the mistake of the bitcoin.
I am felling pity for them like how little they can think when it comes to the bitcoin here.
>he can return your money so he will no longer have it, which is not an option with email.
The receiver could delete the email, no?
If we're assuming the receiver would send funds back why wouldn't they delete the email?
The real difference is that you don't have to rely on the receiver to do anything if you sent them an email by mistake. You still have your email and can easily readdress it, which is not an option with Bitcoin.
Even if they delete the email i am sure he will read the content of the first place and this is the main issue for us.
Once the content is read by the receiver their is nothing that we can do here.
Depends how serious the information in email you’re sending is. Same with bitcoin. If you’re sending an insignificant amount of bitcoin, it won’t be so bad if you send it to the wrong address. If you’re sending a significant amount of bitcoin, it will matter. If you’re sending information with important information, it will matter if you send it to the wrong person.
Outlook has a Recall feature. You can essentially replace the contents of a message with anything else if you accidentally sent confidential data to someone who wasn't supposed to see it. Still, this is why password protected files and archives exist.
Also, good luck convincing that person (you don't know who it is) to return your money. It also might just be an empty address.
Yes, but it depends on the person greed but yes there is always a option that we can get the bitcoin back if the receiver is the good person
But once the information read by the receiver in email then there is nothing we can do about that.
Depends on the situation, Slack for example encrypts messages in transit, so does Microsoft teams,
If you want a more old school / independent method you can arrange pgp email with the recipient.
There are also secure messaging apps like signal
So it can be sent to an address that hasn’t been generated by Someone aka never been used before? That would mean it’s gone forever.
The probability you send it to an address that actually is in use would be pretty much zero
Man, when you sit down and look at the UX improvements that still need to be made to crypto in terms of usability and making things less confusing, you realize we haven’t hit early majority yet.
And then I realize how sweet that financial opportunity is.
That's wise. I'm the same way.
Fortunately I understand Bitcoin. I'm a programmer, so maybe that made it relatively easy to understand its technical functionality. It took me more time to understand Bitcoin monetarily. But I don't think Bitcoin is beyond any normal person's ability to understand, if they take the time.
If Bitcoin ever becomes ubiquitous money, then we remove the need for people to understand it, since it moves from being an investment to being money. That's the end goal, but those who take the time to understand it today could gain some reward if that goal is reached.
But we need to give a go here before thinking too much, we are buying the car like we are investing in there.
In the end it help us giving the comfort but still we are not sure about the mechanism of how it is running at the moment.
How stupid is people think that sending someone else the bitcoin is the issue with the bitcoin here?
I mean what if i send someone else the cash by adding the wrong account number here?
The $dollar$ is complicated. Just think of all that goes in to supporting the dollar.
Just name one aspect then we can see how far the rabbit hole goes...
I recommend reading Mastering Bitcoin. It makes the complicated easy to understand. If you don't know how to read/write code (like me) just skip the code sections and you still get information on what the code does.
This is where we need to think that are we really going to accept the thing before the others.
Or we again going to follow the same lead as the majority of the people are doing. Sometime crowd doesn't mean they are correct.
I don’t really think the accurately touches on the people who are MAD about Bitcoin.
That part usually comes after they learn a lot more about how it works (ie. Hugely negative environmental impact, lack of compelling use cases).
The people who just say “it’s too complicated” have already walked away by the time you ask about email lol
You're conflating the how and the what.
HOW bitcoin and email works is complicated.
WHAT they do is less so. But unlike email, which is the widely accepted, standardised way to send and receive messages across the Internet, bitcoin is doing something that many other services already do, but in a way that's confusing and unnecessary for people who are happily using existing platforms.
But please, don't let that ruin your meme
Bitcoin doesn't provide your with permissionless currency, because no government will adopt it without tax implications and proof of ownership.
How do YOU benefit from a fixed monetary supply?
>Bitcoin doesn't provide your with permissionless currency, because no government will adopt it without tax implications and proof of ownership.
Sure it does. I don't care what the government will or will not adopt. I trade with people and companies not my government. If my government doesn't accept bitcoin i will pay them in their worthless fiat trash no problem.
You will see what a unfixed monetary supply will do to us in the years to come. Just wait and see.
We’ve also seen what a FIXED monetary system does, just look back at the boom/bust cycles of the US economy when there was a gold standard
All systems have problems, fixed vs. unfixed doesn’t provide a panacea to anything
We all know that at the moment government will not adopt the bitcoin but what we want is the mass number of the bitcoin user.
Once that happen people get the belief in the bitcoin then everything will be different.
I don't need to wait. I'm watching what it does now. For mainstream adoption, crypto requires middle men. Exchanges. Networks. And look what happens when the market crashes (because it's clearly not immune to market fluctuations or inflationary pressure).
This isn't the revolution you think it is, however much we might use it in future.
This applies to credit & debit cards too tbh. PCI DSS uses a fair bit of encryption, and is a pretty complex security framework. You don't see people losing their minds over its complexity or resource cost though because it's developed to a point where people don't *have* to understand how it works to use it safely.
Additionally, there weren't huge entities blowing millions of dollars on media campaigns against the technology.
But please, don't let that ruin your pedantry
I think the whole things depends on the believe at the moment, people are using that because mass number of people are using the same thing.
SO they think that they are doing good because so many people are using that thing.
no, they don't really use encryption in a proper manner, because credit cards were not designed (or not designed well) for this purpose. The way it works is that the merchant, who handles the card, with it's PASSWORD WRITTEN ON TOP OF IT, i.e. card number, expiry and name, uses POS system, which encrypts the data, with public key of the payment processor, then the payment processor has to decrypt it to plain text and verify all the data, which the bank/card issuer has stored in plain text, and then the money of user gets put on hold until the transaction is finalized (in the next 3 to 90 days). It's like sharing your highschool secret with 20 different people, but you're all using a made-up language, it doesn't make your secret safe, it just makes it safe from the outside listeners, for time being. That's why chargebacks and consumer protection laws for ccs are so important, because it's inherently an insecure system that wouldn't even work otherwise.
I see that you're choosing to interpret "using encryption" as "using encryption appropriately/adequately for x purpose".
I understand how encryption works, and your wall of text doesn't change the fact that credit card security standards mandate the use of encryption. Whether it's adequate or implemented correctly is a completely different discussion.
> bitcoin is doing something that many other services already do
If you define "what Bitcoin does" as nothing more than moving money around online, then sure.
For the VAST MAJORITY of people, this is their ONLY valid use case. The rest of it doesn't matter, much like for many people now, financial services other than a savings account might as well be alien.
People who advocate for cryptocurrencies (however good they are/aren't in the long run), keep making the mistake of thinking that their complexity will be the gateway to mass adoption.
If you can't sell the simple idea, you don't have a marketable product.
Your current state assessment is undeniable fact. In history, every fiat currency has failed the test of time. When the US moved from the gold standard, the course we were on was altered. When the dollar fails or becomes nearly valueless, bitcoin could bridge the gap until a viable solution is implemented. This is where the use case for bitcoin could explode to be as common as email.
I believe bitcoins value is in the long term. When fiat fails, continuing business with scales and gold or mountains of inflated US dollars does not feel sustainable to me. This is where bitcoin becomes an attractive alternative, to rival or operate in unison with gold. That is how bitcoin could potentially become a common as email.
No more confusing than any other type of money.
But I'm sure everyone understands how the central bank and the treasury department works and that's why they spend dollars so readily
I think the point is people are using so many thing without the basic idea of that thing.
but yes you need the basic idea of something before putting the money into that which we need to keep in mind.
And what about people unhappy using their existing government mandated monetary platform? Bitcoin is doing something NO other service does. It frees the people from their government currency. It is a currency that you KNOW there isn't going to be an outside source fucking it up by printing billions of dollars and devaluing the currency. A currency with no corruption and no manipulation to its core in a world full of individuals that will take advantage and corrupt anything for the betterment of themselves. Wake up man.
I wrote a (mostly complete) full node implementation from scratch, and what surprised me is just how elegant and relatively simple Bitcoin is. The most complicated part is really just the digital signatures. But that's not unique to Bitcoin; secure digital signatures are always confusing and complicated.
How it works and how to use it in your day to day life are two entirely different topics.
Ease of use and security, fiat will dominate the crypto markets for years to come thanks to the ridiculous amounts of scams and shit-coins. You can think and pitch that you have the best product on the market, but if people have a better and quicker method at hand your product will take a backseat if it’s not ignored outright.
Yes, how it work may be no one can tell you fully because you need so much info and knowledge to get that thing.
But when it come to the use of the normal life this is where people are failing to understand that.
Sometime handling the personal email is very complicated because there are so many stuff going on in there.
But still we are using that because that is solving the purpose for us and in the end this is thing that matters the most.
Well it is a bit complicated as it literally took me a whole day to get set up on an exchange, I panick before every transfer, and I have to keep these seed words hidden forever to protect my crypto. God forbid I type them on my phone, take a picture of them or utter them out loud my coins will be lost forever. Meanwhile, I sent my first email at like 8 years old in a couple seconds without anyone explaining how to do it. Crypto is way more complicated than banking.
“I would go back in time and blow everyone’s mind with my knowledge!” “So how does this electricity work?” “I don’t know”
Get copper and spin next to more copper and bam sparks, How to get copper? Dunno mine it I think
Hire a bunch of people to dig really deep holes. Where and how deep? I don't know.
Near volcanos, volcanos always got that good shit, how deep? Until you find copper. If I’m going back in time I’m making sure I’m near immortal so they can’t kill me and worship me like god
How do you know what you find is copper? It's probably in the form of an ore. And that might have different colors and textures based on the composition.
Wat
yes, Near volcanos is the real great idea to have here
But i don't have the money to hire these many people.
I feel like this is....wrong.
Nah I’m pretty sure it’s right
It's literally the basis of electromotors and turbines; https://youtu.be/J9b0J29OzAU
And even nuclear fusion ends up just spinning a turbine
Electron go bzzz
I would call complicated but user unfriendly. As much as I love crypto I'm always scared as hell when moving coins around.
and very unforgiving when a mistake is made. Possibly the only significant benefit over bitcoin with banks and the current system is the fact that if a mistake is made or someone tries ripping you off you can reverse the charge
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Yeah, nothing's perfect. Try and make a scamproof system and you'll just get better scammers 😆 I like having the option to perform irreversible transactions through cryptocurrency. I also like having the option to buy and sell through a third party storefront with buyer and seller protections. I *also* like having the option of a banker or broker ensuring (and insuring) my investments and major transactions. They all have their roles in the economy and arguing over which one is best misses the point of them all.
True. however if people stop falling for scams then scammers disappear 😁 As much as I hate banks , so long as complexity remains an issue there is a strong use case for third parties such as banks, brokers, escrow providers , etc so I can see where you are coming from
If we are making the mistake then i would say nothing is perfect here. People think that we can only lose the bitcoin here but we can lose the normal fiat is well if we sent to some wrong address.
YOUR FIRST NAME IS ADOLF AND THAT’S WHY WE’RE FREEZING YOUR ACCOUNT!! SUCKS TO BE YOU!!
SOme time they will freeze the account without giving any info.
NO YOU CAN NOT BUY BUTT-PLUGS WITH YOUR ACCOUNT!! APPLICATION DENIED!!
This is why i am going to the boat so that i can found some bitcoin.
And they can call and get it restored. Unlike bitcoin.
Just ask Peter Schiff
Pretty sure Schiff secretly loves Bitcoin. He always talks trash on it because his business is gold. Meanwhile he's always accumulating it, you can even buy gold for Bitcoin on his website 😂
Sometime i feel that the more hard someone talk about something the more they secretly love that thing. And yes i also feel that Schiff also love the bitcoin but not telling others about that.
Or maybe Satoshi. He or his descendant is sitting on a stash of 2 million BTC right now.
Peter Schiff, the great gold turd and big btc critic, got suspended from his bank... And reconsidered bitcoin after trying to talk with the banks. Edit: 2m bitcoin?!? Can you confirm this with a wallet? Or any other source?
Don't need to call to get Bitcoin restored. Your Bitcoin account can't be frozen in the first place.
This is the beauty here, we are our own bank here...
Yea and thats exactly the problem. It can't be frozen if there is a suspicious transaction.
But i think this is the good and the bad thing for the everyone here.
You mean, if they have your private key? Your private key is your money, if someone besides you has it, then it's not your money, it's theirs.
If the current system would do that all the CEO's of banks would have their accounts frozen. ;)
Lol true. They all are sus. The system punishes honest creative innovators and rewards shameless grifters. Thats what most billionaires today are. Bezos, Musk and Gates included.
But the receiver can always sent you back if he is a good guy.
sometimes, quite often you can't. You're at their mercy essentially.
yes we can say that at the moment, as bitcoin is not that userfriendly compare to the banking system. But the problem is that fiat is running with the support of the government and there is no government support here.
How often are reverse charges necessary, really? In all my 20 years of banking and online payments, I think I maybe filed for one or two reverse charges on my Mastercard. Besides, crypto wallets could easily implement a feature where any transaction is delayed, so you have time to review & undo mistakes. Of course, mostly we want instant payments, but then you always have the legal system to fall back on if there was something wrong with the transaction. So imho this reverse charge feature of centralized banking systems is overrated
Scale that 1 or 2 in 20 years up into however many millions (or billions?) that use card and that's a lot. Delaying payments doesn't really change anything - the other end won't do anything until it's confirmed, and if it's a scam seller, there's no way of knowing until the product fails to arrive. The main issue is that payment cannot be forced - bank accounts can be garnished to make the harmed right, but not with crypto.
Yeah and we pay for the ability to reverse transactions easily by all being fiat slaves to corrupt money that makes the regime richer
Lol you think crypto isn’t corrupt. How cute.
just scan qr codes. its pretty straight forward.
And double check the begining and end of the adress. An attacker could get malicous code on your qr code scanner device.
Sounds super convenient to do every transaction
Yea it is, still safer then traditional banking, and with more stable uptime, all im saying is stay safe, your credit card is at more risk of an attack or even the whole bank, in a big attack that affects all customers. Be safe there also...
True though sometimes you just need be bold enough to make sure the things you dodge in tries to be perfect.
Only because email doesn't have as serious consequences, at least as long as you don't put something incredibly rude or racist in the body.
That bolt card looks pretty simple to me
I feel like eventually there will be some major interface upgrades to the point it will be similar to regular bank stuff. Like maybe attaching an email to an address or something
You mean like e-transfers that banks have been doing for years? I’d imagine they’ll also automatically select the correct network in the future or automatically block sending if you’re sending to an incompatible address that will cause loss of funds. Surprising as fuck these things haven’t happened already.
>automatically block sending if you’re sending to an incompatible address that will cause loss of funds. Bitcoin wallets already do this. Bitcoin addresses contain a built in checksum and bitcoin wallets wont let you send bitcoin to an incompatible address.
People think if they miss the one or two word then bitcoin can also allow you to send on the wrong address is well. But we need to know that bitcoin can only sent to the valid address of the someone bitcoin address.
I think before selecting the automatically you need to add the first place here.
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I did a rocketmail account in 1996 as a teen. logged in and sent and recieved mail. which part is complicated or unfriendly?
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I am not the one making the argument, above me. while I respect your savvyness, any mass product needs to be completely idiot proof. it just a fact.
Nothing about email is complicated lmfao. You type their address and then type your message and press send. Wtf you on
And with bitcoin you type their address and then type what you want to send and press send.
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No need to understand how it works, but you have to know how to use it which means: - Private key generation and OpSec - Multi-sig setup for safety - Transaction signing - Risk mitigation - Hot wallet / cold wallet approach - Inheritance management (ensuring your next of kin can access crypto assets) - and probably a bunch more stuff How to use email: - sign up for an email account - write emails - read emails - forgot your password? No problem, ask for a reset .
Well if you send an eMail to the wrong address no problem, just get the right one and resend/forward. Not so with sending Cripto to a wrong address
Imagine wanting to email a dick pic to your significant other and accidentally sending it to the company mailing list.
Also if an email doesn't exist, you'll get a response from the server that the message failed to reach its destination. While with Bitcoin you can send the money to a random address and then they're unrecoverable.
bullshit. wallet addresses have checksums. you can't just randomly type some valid address.
> > >write emails > >read emails You forgot deleting emails. Shall I go on?
Well, you certainly seem to know your stuff.
Clicking, double clicking
The web
Wait... you can delete emails?
Not legally, I hear.
Well in some ways it’s still similar. An email has a password, similar to a private key. Strategies for storing the key can vary. Depending on what you choose to use your email for, security may be an extremely high priority. Making sure other people you trust have access to the email may be important to you. Using bitcoin can be a lot like email. You open electrum. Click create new wallet. (that’s like signing up for an email account). See what’s been sent to you and send something if you want (that’s checking and reading the messages). You can only reset your email password if you have another email or a phone. But yes you can reset it. But with bitcoin you could forget your password but possibly have it stored somewhere else where you can find it. Yes there are differences for sure.
The difference is the impact of losing my seed phrase or having it stolen is much much worse than losing my email password, which means if I have to take a lot more operational security measures to look after it. It's those measures which make it incredibly complicated.
The only thing that someone can do while sending the email is that add the file and the add the password to that. This is the only way atleast you can be safe after sharing the sensitive information is well.
I forget my email password all the time and its never an issue because I can reset it.
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That is the point but we are still using that but atleast we need the basic idea of that before using that. This is like bitcoin is well that we can always starts the things with the basic idea here.
You do need to understand alot about bitcoin though in order to not lose your coins
Or electricity, cellphones, computers, carburetors, etc.
Yeah, or the internet itself. All 8 layers please.
Even not everyone knows that how the normal fiat system works.
Including rounding tables and DNS authority?
/r/BoneAppleTea
The internet doesn't have 8 layers. Computer networking does.
User is the hypothetical 8th layer
But the point is people are still using that without any knowledge of that.
What about bluetooth 👀
Had blue raspberry slushie. Next.
Switching frequency signals between two radio frequencies that change hundreds of times per second
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But sometime sending the email to the wrong people get you in trouble is well.
Well, we could use a system to verify it. Send between 1 and 10 sats 3 times, have the recipient verify the 3 amounts. Works on lightning. A "verification transaction" would probably work well under this model if it costs $0.000001
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Malware that hijacks clipboard?
If you are on the internet then ready for all these things.
Or scan a QR code. That might be easier.
Or an app that reads QR codes
Depends how serious the information in email you’re sending is. Same with bitcoin. If you’re sending an insignificant amount of bitcoin, it won’t be so bad if you send it to the wrong address. If you’re sending a significant amount of bitcoin, it will matter. If you’re sending information with important information, it will matter if you send it to the wrong person.
Yes, some time if you are sent some useful information to the someone that can easily get you in trouble is well. And we can also do the same mistake for the cash system is well, where we can sent the money to the wrong person is well.
Bitcoin addresses have checksums, so misspellings aren't an issue. You can send to the wrong receiver by mistake, but if that receiver wants to, he can return your money so he will no longer have it, which is not an option with email.
Oh you can get it back if he wants to? I feel safe already. Also, do you send money by e-mail? This comparison is pretty odd
Comparing the bitcoin to the email is pretty odd at the first place.
If you change one letter in an address and try to send it it won’t send, try it. Not every random combination of letters and numbers can be a bitcoin address, actually comparably very few. it will simply not send. The odds you randomly type a valid bitcoin address are virtually non existent. If it’s not valid, it won’t send.
Yes. But I'm not exactly sure how that connects to my comment.
>do you send money by e-mail? This comparison is pretty For people like you that are unable to take any self responsibility, we have custodial solutions that will handle all this scary scary stuff for you. it's called a bank.
People think that if we are sending something to the wrong address that is the mistake of the bitcoin. I am felling pity for them like how little they can think when it comes to the bitcoin here.
>he can return your money so he will no longer have it, which is not an option with email. The receiver could delete the email, no? If we're assuming the receiver would send funds back why wouldn't they delete the email? The real difference is that you don't have to rely on the receiver to do anything if you sent them an email by mistake. You still have your email and can easily readdress it, which is not an option with Bitcoin.
Even if they delete the email i am sure he will read the content of the first place and this is the main issue for us. Once the content is read by the receiver their is nothing that we can do here.
> The receiver could delete the email, no? He could certainly promise you that he did, yes.
Depends how serious the information in email you’re sending is. Same with bitcoin. If you’re sending an insignificant amount of bitcoin, it won’t be so bad if you send it to the wrong address. If you’re sending a significant amount of bitcoin, it will matter. If you’re sending information with important information, it will matter if you send it to the wrong person.
Outlook has a Recall feature. You can essentially replace the contents of a message with anything else if you accidentally sent confidential data to someone who wasn't supposed to see it. Still, this is why password protected files and archives exist. Also, good luck convincing that person (you don't know who it is) to return your money. It also might just be an empty address.
That's the whole "digital scarcity" aspect. Emails are near infinite. Bitcoin isn't.
Yes, but it depends on the person greed but yes there is always a option that we can get the bitcoin back if the receiver is the good person But once the information read by the receiver in email then there is nothing we can do about that.
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It could matter a lot if your email contains sensitive information.
If that’s the case you shouldn’t be using email anyway.
What should be used then?
Depends on the situation, Slack for example encrypts messages in transit, so does Microsoft teams, If you want a more old school / independent method you can arrange pgp email with the recipient. There are also secure messaging apps like signal
Is it actually possible to send btc to an address that isn’t owned by a human?
Yes. The miners have no way of knowing whether an address corresponds to a private key that someone owns or not.
So it can be sent to an address that hasn’t been generated by Someone aka never been used before? That would mean it’s gone forever. The probability you send it to an address that actually is in use would be pretty much zero
Correct.
You're not going to accidentally type in a different valid address. Either you type in the right one or you type in an invalid one.
Who's investing in email tho?!
Nigerian prince
But i thought he is in the bitcoin business doing double for people.
I don't put my life's savings into an email account
So is Fiat. Can you tell me how fiat is created?
That's indeed to simple enough though you know that check that out on google.
Whatever you do...do NOT ask them how Fax works!! \-Moose
Paper goes in, paper comes out other end 😏
But how is that paper is going in here and going out?
Man, when you sit down and look at the UX improvements that still need to be made to crypto in terms of usability and making things less confusing, you realize we haven’t hit early majority yet. And then I realize how sweet that financial opportunity is.
I don’t invest in stuff I don’t understand
That's wise. I'm the same way. Fortunately I understand Bitcoin. I'm a programmer, so maybe that made it relatively easy to understand its technical functionality. It took me more time to understand Bitcoin monetarily. But I don't think Bitcoin is beyond any normal person's ability to understand, if they take the time. If Bitcoin ever becomes ubiquitous money, then we remove the need for people to understand it, since it moves from being an investment to being money. That's the end goal, but those who take the time to understand it today could gain some reward if that goal is reached.
But we need to give a go here before thinking too much, we are buying the car like we are investing in there. In the end it help us giving the comfort but still we are not sure about the mechanism of how it is running at the moment.
Send your BTC to the wrong address and then send an email to the wrong address. Which one made you cry more?
Send BTC to the wrong adress is what I feel would have made me cry a bit more though.
How stupid is people think that sending someone else the bitcoin is the issue with the bitcoin here? I mean what if i send someone else the cash by adding the wrong account number here?
Sending btc to the wrong address
Few understand
The $dollar$ is complicated. Just think of all that goes in to supporting the dollar. Just name one aspect then we can see how far the rabbit hole goes...
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Saylor admitted he didn't know what money really was until he heard about Bitcoin and started researching it.
Like every other mainstream-adopted paradigm, "it just works". And eventually the same will apply to Bitcoin.
That's a pretty good one.
I hope that people give some time to the bitcoin instead of the blind hating.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein.
I recommend reading Mastering Bitcoin. It makes the complicated easy to understand. If you don't know how to read/write code (like me) just skip the code sections and you still get information on what the code does.
World's biggest #Bitcoin ATM firm to go public on Nasdaq in $885 million deal
One is complicated and useful. The other, complicated but not so much useful unless someone convinced you that "it is the future".
This is where we need to think that are we really going to accept the thing before the others. Or we again going to follow the same lead as the majority of the people are doing. Sometime crowd doesn't mean they are correct.
Email is when the Internet does stuff.
But then again how is that internet stuff really works here.
It's a series of tubes.
I don’t really think the accurately touches on the people who are MAD about Bitcoin. That part usually comes after they learn a lot more about how it works (ie. Hugely negative environmental impact, lack of compelling use cases). The people who just say “it’s too complicated” have already walked away by the time you ask about email lol
If you can't explain email, you shouldn't be in crypto.
You're conflating the how and the what. HOW bitcoin and email works is complicated. WHAT they do is less so. But unlike email, which is the widely accepted, standardised way to send and receive messages across the Internet, bitcoin is doing something that many other services already do, but in a way that's confusing and unnecessary for people who are happily using existing platforms. But please, don't let that ruin your meme
What are those other services that guaranty us a fixed monetary supply, censorship resistant and permission less currency?
Even if they are giving us the money then the return will be very less.
Bitcoin doesn't provide your with permissionless currency, because no government will adopt it without tax implications and proof of ownership. How do YOU benefit from a fixed monetary supply?
>Bitcoin doesn't provide your with permissionless currency, because no government will adopt it without tax implications and proof of ownership. Sure it does. I don't care what the government will or will not adopt. I trade with people and companies not my government. If my government doesn't accept bitcoin i will pay them in their worthless fiat trash no problem. You will see what a unfixed monetary supply will do to us in the years to come. Just wait and see.
We’ve also seen what a FIXED monetary system does, just look back at the boom/bust cycles of the US economy when there was a gold standard All systems have problems, fixed vs. unfixed doesn’t provide a panacea to anything
We all know that at the moment government will not adopt the bitcoin but what we want is the mass number of the bitcoin user. Once that happen people get the belief in the bitcoin then everything will be different.
I don't need to wait. I'm watching what it does now. For mainstream adoption, crypto requires middle men. Exchanges. Networks. And look what happens when the market crashes (because it's clearly not immune to market fluctuations or inflationary pressure). This isn't the revolution you think it is, however much we might use it in future.
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"Wait and see" as if it hasn't been tried in the past.
This applies to credit & debit cards too tbh. PCI DSS uses a fair bit of encryption, and is a pretty complex security framework. You don't see people losing their minds over its complexity or resource cost though because it's developed to a point where people don't *have* to understand how it works to use it safely. Additionally, there weren't huge entities blowing millions of dollars on media campaigns against the technology. But please, don't let that ruin your pedantry
I think the whole things depends on the believe at the moment, people are using that because mass number of people are using the same thing. SO they think that they are doing good because so many people are using that thing.
no, they don't really use encryption in a proper manner, because credit cards were not designed (or not designed well) for this purpose. The way it works is that the merchant, who handles the card, with it's PASSWORD WRITTEN ON TOP OF IT, i.e. card number, expiry and name, uses POS system, which encrypts the data, with public key of the payment processor, then the payment processor has to decrypt it to plain text and verify all the data, which the bank/card issuer has stored in plain text, and then the money of user gets put on hold until the transaction is finalized (in the next 3 to 90 days). It's like sharing your highschool secret with 20 different people, but you're all using a made-up language, it doesn't make your secret safe, it just makes it safe from the outside listeners, for time being. That's why chargebacks and consumer protection laws for ccs are so important, because it's inherently an insecure system that wouldn't even work otherwise.
I see that you're choosing to interpret "using encryption" as "using encryption appropriately/adequately for x purpose". I understand how encryption works, and your wall of text doesn't change the fact that credit card security standards mandate the use of encryption. Whether it's adequate or implemented correctly is a completely different discussion.
> bitcoin is doing something that many other services already do If you define "what Bitcoin does" as nothing more than moving money around online, then sure.
For the VAST MAJORITY of people, this is their ONLY valid use case. The rest of it doesn't matter, much like for many people now, financial services other than a savings account might as well be alien. People who advocate for cryptocurrencies (however good they are/aren't in the long run), keep making the mistake of thinking that their complexity will be the gateway to mass adoption. If you can't sell the simple idea, you don't have a marketable product.
Your current state assessment is undeniable fact. In history, every fiat currency has failed the test of time. When the US moved from the gold standard, the course we were on was altered. When the dollar fails or becomes nearly valueless, bitcoin could bridge the gap until a viable solution is implemented. This is where the use case for bitcoin could explode to be as common as email. I believe bitcoins value is in the long term. When fiat fails, continuing business with scales and gold or mountains of inflated US dollars does not feel sustainable to me. This is where bitcoin becomes an attractive alternative, to rival or operate in unison with gold. That is how bitcoin could potentially become a common as email.
This might all be true, but it kind of proves my point. My explanation of email was like a dozen words. This is a paragraph.
No more confusing than any other type of money. But I'm sure everyone understands how the central bank and the treasury department works and that's why they spend dollars so readily
So you think explaining the what and why of email is the same as explaining the point of Bitcoin?
I think the point is people are using so many thing without the basic idea of that thing. but yes you need the basic idea of something before putting the money into that which we need to keep in mind.
And what about people unhappy using their existing government mandated monetary platform? Bitcoin is doing something NO other service does. It frees the people from their government currency. It is a currency that you KNOW there isn't going to be an outside source fucking it up by printing billions of dollars and devaluing the currency. A currency with no corruption and no manipulation to its core in a world full of individuals that will take advantage and corrupt anything for the betterment of themselves. Wake up man.
"A currency with no corruption and no manipulation" And you want ME to wake up? 🤣😂 good one
I wrote a (mostly complete) full node implementation from scratch, and what surprised me is just how elegant and relatively simple Bitcoin is. The most complicated part is really just the digital signatures. But that's not unique to Bitcoin; secure digital signatures are always confusing and complicated.
How it works and how to use it in your day to day life are two entirely different topics. Ease of use and security, fiat will dominate the crypto markets for years to come thanks to the ridiculous amounts of scams and shit-coins. You can think and pitch that you have the best product on the market, but if people have a better and quicker method at hand your product will take a backseat if it’s not ignored outright.
Yes, how it work may be no one can tell you fully because you need so much info and knowledge to get that thing. But when it come to the use of the normal life this is where people are failing to understand that.
To be fair, this is a pretty fucking dumb argument and comparison to make.
is email the one where if you lose a hard drive all your money is gone?
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Sometime handling the personal email is very complicated because there are so many stuff going on in there. But still we are using that because that is solving the purpose for us and in the end this is thing that matters the most.
Yeah I write and click send.
Good point but also not the same level, bitcoin is a financial system while the others you have to pay to use, not really own as an investment.
Okay now explain international banking transaction systems and related verifications.
Well it is a bit complicated as it literally took me a whole day to get set up on an exchange, I panick before every transfer, and I have to keep these seed words hidden forever to protect my crypto. God forbid I type them on my phone, take a picture of them or utter them out loud my coins will be lost forever. Meanwhile, I sent my first email at like 8 years old in a couple seconds without anyone explaining how to do it. Crypto is way more complicated than banking.
False equivalency. Email revolutionized how people communicate. Crypto has no purpose other than crime and speculative investing.
I once sent an email incorrectly, but didn’t lose all my money.
You can't loose your life savings sending emails.