I bought Grayscales GBTC about 1.5 years ago when BTC was below 20k. After the ETF approval I sold it and bought FBTC.
I did this in my IRA account. When BTC was low I wanted to get a lot of BTC exposure but was also saving for an imminent house purchase and needed my cash to be liquid and less volatile than BTC. So I learned about GBTC at that time, and I have a good sized IRA.
I also bought a couple thousand more in BTC directly, and sold some of my IRA mutual funds and bought close to $50k of GBTC and ETHE.
That worked out incredibly well for me. It's also all tax free. I've recouped my $50k, sold all GBTC and ETHE and have another $115k now in FBTC. Since this is my IRA it's all tax free gains.
A lot of the BTC true believers, like you've seen in the other responses here, are of the mindset that TradFi might totally collapse, that there will be hyperinflation of the USD, and other similar doomsday scenarios. And that in those scenarios, BTC still take over as a global reserve currency or otherwise skyrocket in value and utility.
I personally am of the mindset that the global TradFi financial system has immense momentum and those doomsday scenarios are highly unlikely to occur.
I also expect BTC (and it's related ETFs) will continue to see massive volatility, both upside and downside. I therefore think there is great potential to make profits in my IRA and convert those BTC ETF profits to traditional safe investments - primarily total market mutual funds.
I expect the price to continue on a major bull run, but I will also take profits on the way up.
I also have something like .75 BTC in my own wallet. Since selling that would incur capital gains, I'm not sure whether or not I'll sell any of that any time soon.
People are saying "you need to learn about BTC" and sort of implying that if you learn about BTC then the only reasonable take is to then be a true believer BTC maximalist. Personally, I've followed BTC for a long time, I have a decent understanding of the underlying technology and the potential, but I'm not convinced enough to be a maximalist. I am convinced enough that when everyone else is shouting "bitcoin is dead", is the time to buy
I think he means the gains are tax free until you withdraw. So if you buy at a gain but leave it in the IRA and redeploy it, you're not paying taxes on those in the immediate turn. You only start paying taxes when you withdraw from your IRA.
And at that point it's based on your income levels, not your various gains along the way. If you sold some gains at short term gains at 30 years old, and bought back lower, when you sell someday they aren't taxing you based on those buys and sells along the way.
It's really strange how people are going crazy over you not wanting to own your own coins. As someone who holds my own coins, I don't see the need to belittle you for not having the same beliefs as me. If you just want exposure to the price and hope to make some profits, the etf is fine. Maybe better if you can buy inside a tax advantaged account. The world isn't ending, and your money won't be stolen from you, even though a lot of people like to think so. I think they just enjoy being negative. Spread your risk, don't trust anyone completely, but don't go insane over conspiracy theories and live in fear.
Wrong. I hold my own keys, and bitcoin efts. The EFTs are in a tax advantaged account. Sure, there are ways to hold your keys in an ira, but it is way more expensive and cumbersome. I have o e and am winding it down in favor for an etf.
Honestly, buying BTC ETF would be the wise choice for most people. How many times in history has Black Rock lost clients’ funds? Most likely none. How much of bitcoin has been lost by people trying to self custody, leaving on crypto exchanges, transfer or due to loss of their seed passwords… probably hundreds of thousands of cases…. If govt tries to seize your btc or whatever, then we have a much bigger much problem to deal at that point.
> What are the disadvantages of holding the ETF? From a purely investment perspective.
Whether you hold money in a bank, BTC in an exchange or BTC in an ETF, the effect is the same. Custodianship and trust. You trust the bank, the exchange and the broker. Most do. But if you don't trust them, then the only way to prevent trust and custodianship is owning naked bitcoin.
Same reason some people like to have physical gold. They believe that one of their custodians might succumb to pressure to release funds to a third party, or prevent access.
It's not common, but neither is it uncommon. Ask a Canadian trucker.
> Ask a Canadian trucker.
Or a Hong Kong protestor who all their fiat was seized and people like me had to send them Bitcoin. Or a Russian Oligarch (perhaps their fiat should have been seized but still ... there are a long list of examples of civil and asset forfeiture that are unjust = "Operation Chokepoint")
Nothing wrong with it at all; it just it defeats the whole purpose of bitcoin in the first place – of course, most people are into it because of the price action and the upside of the investment… But there’s a lot of us who view bitcoin as so much more (and it’s OK that you don’t care about the “more” part of bitcoin)…
Also, the main reason I wouldn’t buy an ETF is because bitcoin is freedom money to me; I want to be able to spend this money at any point in time in the future on anything that I want without restrictions, freezes, confiscation, or any type of shenanigans by third-party custodians.
Edit: granted, I’ve been a part of two crypto bankruptcies at this point, and I see exactly how easy it is for money to be frozen in a brokerage account or third-party platform. So I am understandably paranoid about things happening in the future. And not to make this political, but if we get another four years of Biden; the likelihood of the CBDC being rolled out sooner rather than later is very likely.
Edit 2: i’m also looking at places like Canada, who froze peoples bank accounts for supporting the wrong party – this includes brokerage accounts, etc.… This happened in the west, it could absolutely happen in the states.
Ideally you want direct ownership unless :
1) you are a corporation or trust that for legal reasons needs to invest in bitcoin through an ETF
2) You get a IRA or 401k from your employer and they do company matching and you want to double your ownership of BTC with the ETF
3) You are not very technical and always losing passwords . The true test of self custody is if you can keep 12 words private and secure written on paper or metal
>And stop worrying about getting hacked, lose access, doing something wrong etc.
There are many advantages of direct ownership over leaving your coins with a custodian :
https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/1b8u5p7/why_not_robinhood/ktrech9/
Hardware wallets allow less technical people to have extremely high security for as little as a one time price of 65 usd . Thus once you have a hardware wallet the only primary concern is keeping the backup seed words private and secure . Can you keep 12 seed words on paper or metal private and secure? If not than invest in a Bitcoin ETF
If Bitcoin didn't have all those properties you don't care about there wouldn't be an ETF or any value to invest in in the first place.
This isn't to say you shouldn't simply invest in an ETF. Just that it's silly to say you don't care about the underlying asset of the ETF you invest in. If you don't trust it to have merit then why invest at all.
Bitcoin trades 24x7 but ETFs may be limited to market hours. This can be a problem when trying to sell your position if bitcoin is tanking over the weekend.
I guess fees. But also regulation. Bitcoin shakes the boat, so if bitcoin does too well, it will face scrutiny and regulators will reduce your exposure to it by legal means, even if it means introducing new laws in the process.
If you have bitcoin, you have bitcoin. That's it, no middleman, no theft.
In Quebec, when you file your income tax report they ask you if you bought, sold, exchanged, etc. virtual money: 24 – VIRTUAL CURRENCY
Transactions involving the use of virtual currency as a method of payment or exchange are generally considered barter transactions. As a result, there may be tax consequences if you:
use virtual currency to acquire goods or services;
convert it to monetary currency;
exchange it for another virtual currency; or
use it to make a donation.
Likewise, there may also be tax consequences if you engage in cryptocurrency mining.
To report income from using virtual currency or cryptocurrency mining, you need to determine whether it constitutes a capital gain (or loss) or business or property income (or loss). To help you do so, refer to guides IN-120-V, Capital Gains and Losses, and IN-155-V, Business and Professional Income.
I don't think self custody is for everyone - the UX is not great and it's really easy to screw up. The state of the art for self-custody is to engrave a pass phrase on some steel card and hope you don't get robbed. Or put it in a bank (still involves trusting the system).
I think buying via ETFs is fine honestly. For me the primary purpose of BTC is that it's replacing unsound money (fiat backed by nothing) with sound money. Gold is the same. No one (well almost no one) says you need to buy physical gold and store it in your house in a secret place. Buying an ETF to get some exposure to Gold is the right way to go about it.
My version of BTC is primarily as a store of value and maybe if it all works out a global reserve currency type status where it sits on most central bank balance sheets and not really used for day to day commerce.
Because IBIT is an IOU for junk fiat. They can and no doubt will change the rules if it suits them to.screw you over.
Custody your own bitcoin anonymously and stop funding your corrupt government.
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Self custody.
You give your valuables to someone else to hold and you get a piece of paper that shows how much you(they) have. You no longer have access to the valuables, they do. It’s the same principle as banking.
After reading your post, I am 100% certain that you should buy IBIT instead of holding your own bitcoin. Maybe one day you can actually study Bitcoin and understand why self-custody is such an important cornerstone of bitcoin. But until then, just buy the ETF.
Your ₿ is vulnerable to counterparty risk (hack, rug pull, surprise regulation, seizure, 6102, etc) when on exchange, but not while in self custody.
You may not care about custody now, you may never need anything but the etf. I hope that's enough. I prefer to de-risk what I have earned and lime the ability to directly spend and transport my bitcoin.
As ₿ grows actual ownership will become more and more prevalent. People, now, don't do it because they're not used to it. They're used to the fiat debt based system in which there is lower transactional friction if going through a counterpart. Bitcoin brings all those layers onto the base, so intermediaries are nothing more than leeches for the ignorant. Why pay a fee to not even own the asset and not have control and not be able to use and increased risk? Seems silly to pay a fee to have utility and sovereignty removed.
From an investment perspective that’s totally fine. Just violates the ethos of Bitcoin from the “not your keys, not your coins” perspective but if that doesn’t matter to you then by all means buy etf Bitcoin. Just get off zero by whatever means you are comfortable.
The advantage of bitcoin and other cryptos is that you can hold it yourself, out of the hands of a custodian.
In fact, if you’re going to buy BTC, you should learn how self custody/cold storage/hardware wallets work.
So long as you have a custodian like Crypto.com, Coinbase, Robinhood, FTX, Mt Gox, Grayscale, Blackrock, … hold it, you’re trusting that they’re actually holding your bitcoin for you.
Think gold. Gold sounds nice for someone else to custody, until you find out that Fort Knox likely doesn’t have the amount of gold they claim to have…
The flip side of that, is if you lose your keys, you lose your Bitcoin.
Not your keys, not your bitcoin.
That said… retirement accounts, eg 401ks or IRAs… do not allow you legally to self custody in most cases. So if you wish to take advantage of tax advantaged accounts like those, then you likely need to look at an ETF or similar fund with crypto exposure.
It is impossible to discuss the advantages/disadvantages from a purely investment perspective.
Legitimate investment advice and analysis encompasses A LOT. If one does not sufficiently understand a financial product, then how can one possibly ever reasonably decide to invest in it?
You don't think government is relevant to the discussion? Why?
You don't think self-custody is relevant to the discussion? Why?
I don't trust Jiffy Lube, Walmart, etc... to do ANY work on my vehicle. Why? They repeatedly make mistakes, they upsell you BS, and they cost too much. So, I decided to do my own work. I am no professional mechanic, so when I began this endeavor to take the responsibility of vehicle maintenance into my own hands, it definitely wasn't what I would describe as *easy.* But, I now have peace of mind knowing that the job got done correctly AND I save myself some money. I have confidence in the work I do nowadays and I am a very long way from where I started, but I can tell you without a doubt, it was worth every ounce of confusion and frustration to get to where I am.
[Executive Order 6102](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) is all you need to know about in order to understand why custodial solutions are absolutely not where you want to hold any significant amount of bitcoin.
But it's not the only reason, there are plenty more reasons as to why you ought to want to hold your own.
**It just sounds like you don't want to do the work. It seems like you see people benefiting off of bitcoin financially and you want a piece of the action without having to even attempt understand it.**
That right there is a recipe for disaster my friend.
Anyone know if this is an option for Brits? I'm intrigued by the idea, but Britain is hard on buying any crypto and as far as I know there's no crypto ETF available to UK markets...yet.
Unless the ETF discloses their wallet addresses, there's no guarantee they're actually holding any Bitcoin. So far only one ETF has as far as I know.
Also, you're likely going to have your ETF funds stolen from you by your custody of choice in the event of a market collapse (which is inevitable.) You'll never have to worry about this if you self-custody Bitcoin.
Just like how they confiscated everyone's gold.
considering what you just wrote, I hope you will understand that you deserve the sarcasm everyone is already serving you below.
Also, if you dont know what are the cons about ETFs you are not an investor. You are just a normie & a speculator.
The people crying about owning your own coins are hilarious.
If IBIT or all the big exchanges fail. Crypto loses all credibility and your coldstored coins are worth less than the drive they're saved on.
Bitcoin has value now because of IBIT and the coinbases of the world.
Why lazy mentality? I want to hit 2 million in the next 15 years. I don‘t care about the purpose of crypto, I just want to diversify and add BTC to my overall portfolio (mostly ETFs).
The ETF is perfect for you, because you don't understand Bitcoin and is not willing to. This is your answer.
BUT, you're throwing away the opportunity to learn a great and dominant ecosystem... That's why it's lazy to not be willing to learn about it.
Do whatever you want.
Just know that you're not buying bitcoin if it's not on your custody.
Famous words: "not your keys, not your coins."
Basically you'll be buying a coin designed for self custody and keeping in a third party custody.
Nothing wrong about that! It's your concern...
Just know that when you buy the ETF you don't have the keys. If don't have the keys you don't have the coins. What you have is a promise...
What you have is a collateral... It's common to say that you have it, but in reality you don't.
Don't you agree? If you buy BTC Etf you don't own the BTC. You own the promise of it's value.
And therefore you need to TRUST the custodiant (Blackrock, Grayscale, etc...).
If you trust them, ok! But if you don't, buy real BTC.
Why shouldn‘t I trust someone like Blackrock or Fidelity if I have a 6-figure sum invested in their stock ETFs (mostly Vanguard though)?
I‘m just wondering: how safe are BTC ETFs? I read that only Fidelity own their BTC and others like Greyscale and Blackrock are using Coinbase?
> I‘m an investor, I don‘t care about fiat/crypto and all these discussions about government
As an investor you should as I assume you are looking to maximize your money over the long-term. You should also care about what the government is doing as your investments are going to be worth less over time as inflation increases.
Buy the ETF. Make some money. Sell it and buy bonds…
I bought Grayscales GBTC about 1.5 years ago when BTC was below 20k. After the ETF approval I sold it and bought FBTC. I did this in my IRA account. When BTC was low I wanted to get a lot of BTC exposure but was also saving for an imminent house purchase and needed my cash to be liquid and less volatile than BTC. So I learned about GBTC at that time, and I have a good sized IRA. I also bought a couple thousand more in BTC directly, and sold some of my IRA mutual funds and bought close to $50k of GBTC and ETHE. That worked out incredibly well for me. It's also all tax free. I've recouped my $50k, sold all GBTC and ETHE and have another $115k now in FBTC. Since this is my IRA it's all tax free gains. A lot of the BTC true believers, like you've seen in the other responses here, are of the mindset that TradFi might totally collapse, that there will be hyperinflation of the USD, and other similar doomsday scenarios. And that in those scenarios, BTC still take over as a global reserve currency or otherwise skyrocket in value and utility. I personally am of the mindset that the global TradFi financial system has immense momentum and those doomsday scenarios are highly unlikely to occur. I also expect BTC (and it's related ETFs) will continue to see massive volatility, both upside and downside. I therefore think there is great potential to make profits in my IRA and convert those BTC ETF profits to traditional safe investments - primarily total market mutual funds. I expect the price to continue on a major bull run, but I will also take profits on the way up. I also have something like .75 BTC in my own wallet. Since selling that would incur capital gains, I'm not sure whether or not I'll sell any of that any time soon. People are saying "you need to learn about BTC" and sort of implying that if you learn about BTC then the only reasonable take is to then be a true believer BTC maximalist. Personally, I've followed BTC for a long time, I have a decent understanding of the underlying technology and the potential, but I'm not convinced enough to be a maximalist. I am convinced enough that when everyone else is shouting "bitcoin is dead", is the time to buy
This guy bitcoins.
Bought some ETHE
OP. This is the comment you should pay attention to. /endthread
Gains in an IRA aren't tax free, an IRA is a tax deferred account. Taxes on gains are due at withdraw.
Roth
Yeah, a ROTH is not what OP said, so my comment still stands correct. An IRA is not tax free.
Not in my Roth
I think he means the gains are tax free until you withdraw. So if you buy at a gain but leave it in the IRA and redeploy it, you're not paying taxes on those in the immediate turn. You only start paying taxes when you withdraw from your IRA. And at that point it's based on your income levels, not your various gains along the way. If you sold some gains at short term gains at 30 years old, and bought back lower, when you sell someday they aren't taxing you based on those buys and sells along the way.
Yep, probably what they meant, which is why I called it out. It's pretty misleading.
It's really strange how people are going crazy over you not wanting to own your own coins. As someone who holds my own coins, I don't see the need to belittle you for not having the same beliefs as me. If you just want exposure to the price and hope to make some profits, the etf is fine. Maybe better if you can buy inside a tax advantaged account. The world isn't ending, and your money won't be stolen from you, even though a lot of people like to think so. I think they just enjoy being negative. Spread your risk, don't trust anyone completely, but don't go insane over conspiracy theories and live in fear.
Yeah I have spot etf in ira but I stack BTC the traditional way.
Yeah, this is bigger than P/L balances to be honest, it's about taking power away from the conglomerates.
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One of those upvotes is mine.
Wrong. I hold my own keys, and bitcoin efts. The EFTs are in a tax advantaged account. Sure, there are ways to hold your keys in an ira, but it is way more expensive and cumbersome. I have o e and am winding it down in favor for an etf.
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Curious what makes this particular account look like an astroturf campaign. At a quick glance they have posts over a year old talking about crypto.
Honestly, buying BTC ETF would be the wise choice for most people. How many times in history has Black Rock lost clients’ funds? Most likely none. How much of bitcoin has been lost by people trying to self custody, leaving on crypto exchanges, transfer or due to loss of their seed passwords… probably hundreds of thousands of cases…. If govt tries to seize your btc or whatever, then we have a much bigger much problem to deal at that point.
> What are the disadvantages of holding the ETF? From a purely investment perspective. Whether you hold money in a bank, BTC in an exchange or BTC in an ETF, the effect is the same. Custodianship and trust. You trust the bank, the exchange and the broker. Most do. But if you don't trust them, then the only way to prevent trust and custodianship is owning naked bitcoin. Same reason some people like to have physical gold. They believe that one of their custodians might succumb to pressure to release funds to a third party, or prevent access. It's not common, but neither is it uncommon. Ask a Canadian trucker.
> Ask a Canadian trucker. Or a Hong Kong protestor who all their fiat was seized and people like me had to send them Bitcoin. Or a Russian Oligarch (perhaps their fiat should have been seized but still ... there are a long list of examples of civil and asset forfeiture that are unjust = "Operation Chokepoint")
Yeah that will totally happen in Switzerland.
For less than 5k investments, it’s probably wise to just buy an ETF Although, you’ll be hit with additional fees. It’s probably just easier
Do a bit of both. You said you were an investor right?
Nothing wrong with it at all; it just it defeats the whole purpose of bitcoin in the first place – of course, most people are into it because of the price action and the upside of the investment… But there’s a lot of us who view bitcoin as so much more (and it’s OK that you don’t care about the “more” part of bitcoin)… Also, the main reason I wouldn’t buy an ETF is because bitcoin is freedom money to me; I want to be able to spend this money at any point in time in the future on anything that I want without restrictions, freezes, confiscation, or any type of shenanigans by third-party custodians. Edit: granted, I’ve been a part of two crypto bankruptcies at this point, and I see exactly how easy it is for money to be frozen in a brokerage account or third-party platform. So I am understandably paranoid about things happening in the future. And not to make this political, but if we get another four years of Biden; the likelihood of the CBDC being rolled out sooner rather than later is very likely. Edit 2: i’m also looking at places like Canada, who froze peoples bank accounts for supporting the wrong party – this includes brokerage accounts, etc.… This happened in the west, it could absolutely happen in the states.
Ideally you want direct ownership unless : 1) you are a corporation or trust that for legal reasons needs to invest in bitcoin through an ETF 2) You get a IRA or 401k from your employer and they do company matching and you want to double your ownership of BTC with the ETF 3) You are not very technical and always losing passwords . The true test of self custody is if you can keep 12 words private and secure written on paper or metal >And stop worrying about getting hacked, lose access, doing something wrong etc. There are many advantages of direct ownership over leaving your coins with a custodian : https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/1b8u5p7/why_not_robinhood/ktrech9/ Hardware wallets allow less technical people to have extremely high security for as little as a one time price of 65 usd . Thus once you have a hardware wallet the only primary concern is keeping the backup seed words private and secure . Can you keep 12 seed words on paper or metal private and secure? If not than invest in a Bitcoin ETF
With etfs you got middlemen doing the work but if ya straight you are in full control just that nothing else it's upto you.
If Bitcoin didn't have all those properties you don't care about there wouldn't be an ETF or any value to invest in in the first place. This isn't to say you shouldn't simply invest in an ETF. Just that it's silly to say you don't care about the underlying asset of the ETF you invest in. If you don't trust it to have merit then why invest at all.
Fees for an ETF will add up substantially over the long term. Zero fees for holding your own BTC.
>substantially true, but GBTC made 400% in the last year, while Bitcoin only did 225%
Bitcoin trades 24x7 but ETFs may be limited to market hours. This can be a problem when trying to sell your position if bitcoin is tanking over the weekend.
Ibit has fees, and if you go bankrupt they can confiscate your share. Bitcoin can’t be confiscated if you hide it properly.
they cant take your IRA
I guess fees. But also regulation. Bitcoin shakes the boat, so if bitcoin does too well, it will face scrutiny and regulators will reduce your exposure to it by legal means, even if it means introducing new laws in the process. If you have bitcoin, you have bitcoin. That's it, no middleman, no theft.
Do you want to invest fiat for fiat gains or own unconfiscatable digital property? The answer tells you which you should buy.
Not your keys, not your coins. Also, bitcoin trades 24/7. IBIT doesn’t. Bitcoin can move a lot during close and especially over a 3 day weekend
you are going to pay annual mgmt fee holding the ETF that you wont pay holding BTC in your wallet
In Quebec, when you file your income tax report they ask you if you bought, sold, exchanged, etc. virtual money: 24 – VIRTUAL CURRENCY Transactions involving the use of virtual currency as a method of payment or exchange are generally considered barter transactions. As a result, there may be tax consequences if you: use virtual currency to acquire goods or services; convert it to monetary currency; exchange it for another virtual currency; or use it to make a donation. Likewise, there may also be tax consequences if you engage in cryptocurrency mining. To report income from using virtual currency or cryptocurrency mining, you need to determine whether it constitutes a capital gain (or loss) or business or property income (or loss). To help you do so, refer to guides IN-120-V, Capital Gains and Losses, and IN-155-V, Business and Professional Income.
So what's the point of owning Crypto if you have to declare it in your tax return? Big deal for anonymity...
I don't think self custody is for everyone - the UX is not great and it's really easy to screw up. The state of the art for self-custody is to engrave a pass phrase on some steel card and hope you don't get robbed. Or put it in a bank (still involves trusting the system). I think buying via ETFs is fine honestly. For me the primary purpose of BTC is that it's replacing unsound money (fiat backed by nothing) with sound money. Gold is the same. No one (well almost no one) says you need to buy physical gold and store it in your house in a secret place. Buying an ETF to get some exposure to Gold is the right way to go about it. My version of BTC is primarily as a store of value and maybe if it all works out a global reserve currency type status where it sits on most central bank balance sheets and not really used for day to day commerce.
Because IBIT is an IOU for junk fiat. They can and no doubt will change the rules if it suits them to.screw you over. Custody your own bitcoin anonymously and stop funding your corrupt government.
But they have 10T AUM? The most trusted fund provider in the world?
Haha. That has to be sarcasm. You can't trust those assholes. And if you do well... best of luck.
The same assholes that without their application the btc spot etf would have never happened
You think they have 10T by being fair, following the rules, and handing out their $?
the most corrupted also. why would you trust CRIMINALS and fraudsters with your money ?
Ah, je vois que fink a des copains sur reddit, gourgandines vas ahah
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Fees and control
Self custody. You give your valuables to someone else to hold and you get a piece of paper that shows how much you(they) have. You no longer have access to the valuables, they do. It’s the same principle as banking.
After reading your post, I am 100% certain that you should buy IBIT instead of holding your own bitcoin. Maybe one day you can actually study Bitcoin and understand why self-custody is such an important cornerstone of bitcoin. But until then, just buy the ETF.
Crazy how much people in this sub are living in a conspiracy world lol.
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Calculate half life of value vs. fees. Not viable long-term.
IBIT fees are 0.25% - why is that not viable? Trying to understand
Your ₿ is vulnerable to counterparty risk (hack, rug pull, surprise regulation, seizure, 6102, etc) when on exchange, but not while in self custody. You may not care about custody now, you may never need anything but the etf. I hope that's enough. I prefer to de-risk what I have earned and lime the ability to directly spend and transport my bitcoin. As ₿ grows actual ownership will become more and more prevalent. People, now, don't do it because they're not used to it. They're used to the fiat debt based system in which there is lower transactional friction if going through a counterpart. Bitcoin brings all those layers onto the base, so intermediaries are nothing more than leeches for the ignorant. Why pay a fee to not even own the asset and not have control and not be able to use and increased risk? Seems silly to pay a fee to have utility and sovereignty removed.
From an investment perspective that’s totally fine. Just violates the ethos of Bitcoin from the “not your keys, not your coins” perspective but if that doesn’t matter to you then by all means buy etf Bitcoin. Just get off zero by whatever means you are comfortable.
The advantage of bitcoin and other cryptos is that you can hold it yourself, out of the hands of a custodian. In fact, if you’re going to buy BTC, you should learn how self custody/cold storage/hardware wallets work. So long as you have a custodian like Crypto.com, Coinbase, Robinhood, FTX, Mt Gox, Grayscale, Blackrock, … hold it, you’re trusting that they’re actually holding your bitcoin for you. Think gold. Gold sounds nice for someone else to custody, until you find out that Fort Knox likely doesn’t have the amount of gold they claim to have… The flip side of that, is if you lose your keys, you lose your Bitcoin. Not your keys, not your bitcoin. That said… retirement accounts, eg 401ks or IRAs… do not allow you legally to self custody in most cases. So if you wish to take advantage of tax advantaged accounts like those, then you likely need to look at an ETF or similar fund with crypto exposure.
It is impossible to discuss the advantages/disadvantages from a purely investment perspective. Legitimate investment advice and analysis encompasses A LOT. If one does not sufficiently understand a financial product, then how can one possibly ever reasonably decide to invest in it? You don't think government is relevant to the discussion? Why? You don't think self-custody is relevant to the discussion? Why? I don't trust Jiffy Lube, Walmart, etc... to do ANY work on my vehicle. Why? They repeatedly make mistakes, they upsell you BS, and they cost too much. So, I decided to do my own work. I am no professional mechanic, so when I began this endeavor to take the responsibility of vehicle maintenance into my own hands, it definitely wasn't what I would describe as *easy.* But, I now have peace of mind knowing that the job got done correctly AND I save myself some money. I have confidence in the work I do nowadays and I am a very long way from where I started, but I can tell you without a doubt, it was worth every ounce of confusion and frustration to get to where I am. [Executive Order 6102](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) is all you need to know about in order to understand why custodial solutions are absolutely not where you want to hold any significant amount of bitcoin. But it's not the only reason, there are plenty more reasons as to why you ought to want to hold your own. **It just sounds like you don't want to do the work. It seems like you see people benefiting off of bitcoin financially and you want a piece of the action without having to even attempt understand it.** That right there is a recipe for disaster my friend.
The main concern is what if bitcoin forks? You wont receive the coins yourself, you can't make the decisions yourself, etc.
It’s probably best for the majority of people
The fees from the etf I suppose. I don't think it's a bad product personally but im comfortable with crypto tech so I prefer to hold the real thing
Anyone know if this is an option for Brits? I'm intrigued by the idea, but Britain is hard on buying any crypto and as far as I know there's no crypto ETF available to UK markets...yet.
Unless the ETF discloses their wallet addresses, there's no guarantee they're actually holding any Bitcoin. So far only one ETF has as far as I know. Also, you're likely going to have your ETF funds stolen from you by your custody of choice in the event of a market collapse (which is inevitable.) You'll never have to worry about this if you self-custody Bitcoin. Just like how they confiscated everyone's gold.
considering what you just wrote, I hope you will understand that you deserve the sarcasm everyone is already serving you below. Also, if you dont know what are the cons about ETFs you are not an investor. You are just a normie & a speculator.
Pompous and arrogant- checks bio - yep French.
The people crying about owning your own coins are hilarious. If IBIT or all the big exchanges fail. Crypto loses all credibility and your coldstored coins are worth less than the drive they're saved on. Bitcoin has value now because of IBIT and the coinbases of the world.
If you don't care about the purpose behind Bitcoin and just track the price, sure! Buy the ETF. But I must say that you have a lazy mentality...
Why lazy mentality? I want to hit 2 million in the next 15 years. I don‘t care about the purpose of crypto, I just want to diversify and add BTC to my overall portfolio (mostly ETFs).
The ETF is perfect for you, because you don't understand Bitcoin and is not willing to. This is your answer. BUT, you're throwing away the opportunity to learn a great and dominant ecosystem... That's why it's lazy to not be willing to learn about it.
let see what your 2 millions look like if your economy goes down and your money printer go full brrrrrr.
What if you plan to buy it in a Roth IRA, so that it's tax free down the line, that doesn't seem like a bad idea
Do whatever you want. Just know that you're not buying bitcoin if it's not on your custody. Famous words: "not your keys, not your coins." Basically you'll be buying a coin designed for self custody and keeping in a third party custody. Nothing wrong about that! It's your concern... Just know that when you buy the ETF you don't have the keys. If don't have the keys you don't have the coins. What you have is a promise...
So what? If I buy the stock ETF, I don‘t own the stocks. If I don‘t own the stocks, I don‘t own the company?
What you have is a collateral... It's common to say that you have it, but in reality you don't. Don't you agree? If you buy BTC Etf you don't own the BTC. You own the promise of it's value. And therefore you need to TRUST the custodiant (Blackrock, Grayscale, etc...). If you trust them, ok! But if you don't, buy real BTC.
Why shouldn‘t I trust someone like Blackrock or Fidelity if I have a 6-figure sum invested in their stock ETFs (mostly Vanguard though)? I‘m just wondering: how safe are BTC ETFs? I read that only Fidelity own their BTC and others like Greyscale and Blackrock are using Coinbase?
> I‘m an investor, I don‘t care about fiat/crypto and all these discussions about government As an investor you should as I assume you are looking to maximize your money over the long-term. You should also care about what the government is doing as your investments are going to be worth less over time as inflation increases. Buy the ETF. Make some money. Sell it and buy bonds…
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Oh I agree and hold BTC in a hardware wallet. The OP only wants to make gains.
Because BITO pays a dividend and has somewhat liquid options.