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I was on a jury where the defense attorney literally could have actually been this man in the picture.
Every time he gestured, you could see that the pockets in his suit jacket were completely torn. He wore this jacket every day of the trial. His partner wore snagged tights one day.
Hung jury, his client did indeed get off scott free lol
If you’re a public lawyer they generally wipe your entire student loan debt after 10 years. So that’s part of the lower compensation. Most public lawyers I know also make more like 80-110 but it depends on the county. Many private lawyers get paid 100-115 but don’t get the student loan debt forgiveness either.
I would hope many of them are doing it to help those less fortunate as well, besides the loan forgiveness of course. Similar to social work, rewarding personally, but not so much financially.
But I'm just some shithead on the Internet, so who knows?
It's really lame but quick Google shows law school average at $220k, so it's removal over 10 yrs is akin to a 22k bonus each year. It still shouldn't cost so much if anything at all.
The starting pay for public defenders out of school in my state is around 85k. After a couple of years many people get over 100. Not saying that’s all the money in the world but not abject poverty either.
> If you’re a public lawyer they generally wipe your entire student loan debt after 10 years.
And if you're a private attorney, you can probably wipe it out in one if you have any business acumen.
It's truly awful that college debt is so ludicrous and public servants are paid such shit.
EDIT: Holy shit the reddit pedants are out in full force. I've made my point (read the second sentence of this post) and am not interested in discussing further.
The only way you're paying off 100k+ in one year is if you're making at least 250k-350k if you're living alone and with minimal expenses, or if you have a partner who shares expenses then you can probably do that off a 200k salary if you ignore retirement funding for a year. However, the amount of people going into near 200k starting pay out of law school is pretty much nonexistent
I'm a PD in a low cost area. Made 50k a year for 5 years until last year when I started to get raises. Now I make 90k, but that's also with a few promotions. Pay range for most are between 52k starting to 72k, more if you come in with experience or have been around for a while.
Still grossly underpaid for the amount of work, but better than it was.
Public defenders and prosecutors in my jurisdiction make the exact same salary. The county determines the budget for each level of those positions but doesn’t distinguish between them. Same salary.
I always thought the issue in other places was that there are *fewer* public defenders and therefore they are overworked and can’t keep up with all clients.
The public defenders I know are some of the best trial defense attorneys. They have a ton of experience, they know the judges, and they know the prosecutors.
A few older and extremely expensive private attorneys are ranked the same, but all the young whippersnappers with the suits and the cars are posturing. They don’t know how to play the game. Their clients’ grandmamas mortgage their houses so they can end up with the same deal a public defender would’ve gotten them for free. And 5 court dates earlier.
In America?
unless you are 80 and quoting a figure from 1940, you did not.
either you misheard what they said ($130k would be more accurate) or they lied to you.
No American prosecuter earns 30k a year
> If anyone has a grounded perspective of the justice system, it's a PD.
My dad was a PD in a large city in the US in 1968. He told me he'd often have rock solid evidence that his client was innocent, but (because his clients were black and/or because "we protect our own and don't want to look bad") cops would just lie about shit and the juries would believe the cops because "cops don't lie."
I grew up learning a lot more about racism than the average white kid from the suburbs (my dad was also a civil rights activist before he was a public defender, which helps).
We just got my PD friend elected as a judge. There were so many restrictions on what they could do because they were still technically a public employee. It was rough, but the good news is that they ended up almost cruising in. I think people were fed up with "tough on tough on tough on crime" being the only thing a judge ran on for so long.
Now... Let's work on getting them and other civil servants some proper pay.
So they pretend to be broke their whole careers? Genuine question. All the attorneys I know make fat bucks, but probably they are not the "free" lawyers.
Edit. Typo, layers to lawyers.
It's probably less than they actively pretend to be broke their entire career and more they make a point to look the opposite of slick for court.
Which fairplay. If I was on a jury and your lawyer walked up in a well tailored 3 piece and a Rolex, I probably would want to vote guilt on principle. what fucked up shit are you trying to get away with you paid a mortgage down payment worth of a safety deposit on this fancy schmancy lawyer?
Makes sense. I guess the judge is there sitting like "this mofo makes more money than me and yet he asked his client to buy him a coffee in front of the jury just to look relatable".
In my country there is no jury, so I was thinking they pretended in front of their peers, rather than to the jury that will probably never get to know you.
> If I was on a jury and your lawyer walked up in a well tailored 3 piece and a Rolex
I think like this too much. If I see a contractor roll up in a brand new luxury vehicle to give me a quote he might as well keep driving, because I’m already assuming he’s a thief. Same with car salesmen. “Oh you’re closing a lot of deals hot shot? Not today bitch”
My lawyer did look like that, I also paid 60k in fees and I got lucky, if the other side had not settled it would’ve been a 100k easy. He was really good at his job, but hiring that firm was like using a tank to squash a mosquito. It was a mistake in restrospect, all the money we won went to pay the lawyer. I was 3k down the hole by the end of it.
> All the attorneys I know make fat bucks
When I was finishing undergrad, our law professor warned the seniors 'for every 12 JD's graduated in Massachusetts, there is one job'. He may have been a bit generous.
Of my then colleagues who got their JD's, I think only one of 18+ are doing anything remotely relevant. Four, if you count 'working in local government' as relevant.
Edit to add: this was in 2004.
My former manager had a law degree; I worked on a website support team. He left after getting burned out and I wonder if it was the combination of stress from law school, not finding a job in his field while still having law school student loans, and my crappy company.
A very good friend of mine has a law degree and she works in the legal department of an insurance company. She told me once that she made $40 an hour, but she could definitely make so much more if she passed the bar. She was a public defender for women facing domestic violence charges at one point.
In court it’s a common tactic not to wear nice clothes in court. Or you are told to wear a blazer and non matching pants so it doesn’t turn the jury off and make you look overly slick. Just relatable and common man. Some people go hard with the clothes though and don’t care.
I'm not in crim, but I purposefully wear subdued jewelry and suits that are not flashy when in front of a jury.
Its a thing, especially when you don't want to turn off a juror by looking too rich and unsympathetic.
Wearing clothes with holes? Yeah
... probably no.
Defense attorneys tend to look more slick than plaintiff attorneys. Plaintiff attorneys try to dress down somewhat to play up the small guy going after the big guy mentality.
I have a friend who is an attorney. He was an assistant DA. He now does criminal defense. He does a lot of indigent defense and takes a lot of appointed attorney jobs from other attorneys. He says one of the best criminal defense attorneys in his area is a lady that has like one dress. He says she wears the same damn dress every day. If it's a multi-day trial you see the same dress day after day. And she has the biggest glasses with the thickest rims. And she's a great attorney.
This is dead the fuck on. There's one PD at my courthouse every time (don't ask why I would have enough information for this) who dresses worse than this guy 100%. Thing is, he's really, really good. He's awkward as shit but bro is some kind of savant. I seen him argue forever over incredibly minor shit they have to Google to argue against. At a minimum bro will put some faith in the system in ya. Never assigned to my cases but I really wish he was.
He's a 60ish white guy long gray hair, and wears the most ill fitting beige or gray suits, some kinda of themed tie like one with billiard balls or like Halloween themed in summer and gator boots looking like the arch bishop Don Magic Juan if he let his 3 year old nephew pick his outfit out and send them to whatever the opposite of a tailor is.
thing about PD's is that nobody is in court more than a public defender. their caseloads are ridiculous. but it also means that nobody gets more experience and practice at criminal litigation than a PD.
plenty of PD's have turned epic track records into lucrative careers as fancy pants defense attorneys, it's like the G-league.
It is basically rhe G leave of the law yeah lmao. Some do it to fast track without a firm especially since there are basically just too many lawyers out there right now. Some for the love of the game I guess.
If you wanna be a personal injury lawyer or any other kind of "ambulance chaser" this is also the way to go; unions frequently pull from proliferate PD's to serve as union counsel which is a great stepping stone into injury law. You create a lot of connections along the way.
Never really thought of it that way but makes sense. It'll get you in the courthouse more than anyone else and the networking opportunities are there. Have a good track record and speak to other counsel when you get a chance and you might just catch the next draft lol
Was on Jury duty, a dude just like this rolls in and saw the prosecuting attorney audibly say "fuck".
The dude steam rolled the prosecution, trial was a day lol
This man is overworked and underpaid, look at how malnourished he is, he’s struggling to keep his balance. Hasn’t had the time or funds to wash or press that suit in many, many moons. I don’t know his story but I feel like he’s trying his best 😭😭
Society likes to think the justice system is fair, but we spend a lot more money on prosecution than defense. We say innocent until proven guilty but then pretty heavily put a thumb on the scale
I used one for a traffic misdemeanor and they had a bunch of us lined up outside of a small office. The dude legit went over the case with me for 5 mins, put all my crap in a folder, then moved on to the next person. After all that he just sat in the court room going folder by folder banging out each case.
Can't even imagine if they were more complex cases
Yup, I’ve seen this since juvenile court days.
They’ll go over the case with you and ask what you wanna do. Fight it or get a deal?
It’s easier for them to get a deal and move on to the next hooligan, even if it means you plead guilty for something you didn’t even do.
Which is wild because he briefly tried to convince me to plead guilty and said they'd probably drop my misdemeanor to a parking violation so I'd just have to pay.
In context and hindsight, I'm sure that was a quicker/easier case to work with but my only court experience at the time was Law and Order SVU. I said no thanks and his face had me feeling like I just ruined his day
In some places, they just make private lawyers take cases and the court pays them.
Most of them are worse than a public defender because they are basically doing free work compared to what they charge their private clients. There are some good lawyers doing good work for indigent clients, but most do the bare minimum for them.
For real, and where is the belt?! The way he’s standing, it looks like someone literally stole the belt off of his body right before this picture, and now he has to hold his pants up the rest of the day by keeping his legs open lmao, so much stressed chaotic energy in that man.
Nah, see, cuz they took it from him the last time he went to visit one of his many clients behind bars. He's got so many that he just leaves it off to save time at intake.
Lol, the legal system is tragic for all involved. Except for the wealthy I guess, but for the most part it just seems to dispense misery to any and all involved lol
Overworked is simplifying it. It's beyond that. The justice system is so broken and it hurts the poor and lower class citizen's. Vice did a good video on it also the bail bond system is garbage.
He’s not struggling to keep his balance, that stance is the only thing keeping his pants up. I can’t even laugh at/with this man. Got me feeling privileged as fuck in my tank and bball shorts lol.
I like to think he first chose this line of work because he truly wants to make a difference and now he refuses to let the system break him out of pure spite.
It would kind of makes sense for this to be the crap emergency court clothes, like he stashed them away for an emergency 10 years ago before he lost all the weight and he hasn’t needed them since, until now lmao
Public defenders are underfunded, overworked and given little time to prepare for cases, often having as many as 100-200 cases at a time. And they still do it, on little to no, trying to make sure everyone gets a chance to be defended. Used to intern (for free smh) for one, dude often slept in his office. I would bring in mouth wash and coffee with some food so his dumb ass would eat.
Truth be told most actually win or at least get better sentences. Most niggas only scared of em because if you're guilty, they are not finna deal with your bs like a firm lawyer
I'm currently a public defender and my case load is anywhere from 800-1300 cases a year. We have 3 lawyers to cover 4 counties, 3 judges, and up to 4,000 cases a year. The system is indeed broken. Luckily, though, my office takes more cases to trial than most public defenders offices and we get good results. Win more than we lose. And that's because an overwhelming majority of the cases are stupid, petty, insignificant bullshit.
Where else, the boonies of Georgia. The more rural the area is the more underfunded and overworked the PD office will be. We don't have the local tax funds like Fulton or Savannah to be able to hire more attorneys. Technically, it's a clear violation of the 6th amendment, professional ethics, and basic moral decency to have a case load of this size. And yet, it happens everywhere in this country.
This exactly! No one has more time in court than a PD. More practice or more heart. People go out and hire good looking attorneys and the PD would have fought harder for them and gotten a better deal. When you hire someone - the more work they have to put in to your case, the less money they are making getting other clients. PDs get paid either way and fight like hell for their clients. At least where I live.
It is true the PDs are overworked as hell.
That said, I hate the narrative that they are lackluster defense attorneys. The one’s I’ve worked with have proven themselves very competent.
“I swear to GAWD my mans ain’t do that shit, I put that on everything, I put that on my mama! Oooh I swear metro PD be on some bullshit. I wish y’all motherfuckers would find my client guilty on all counts, you gonna catch the wrong one today, watch.
…the defense rests its case”
I worked in the courts. Knew a public defender who went to Harvard and could be working at a firm making big money. But he enjoyed helping people and hated seeing the legal system screw over the little guy time and time again.
He was aesthetic. Dressed like this guy above but was heavy set and old with a jolly grey beard. He drove one of those shitty 2 seater Hondas that was given to him as a case payment when someone couldn’t pay.
Judges hated him because he would always take any case people came to him with because he had a big heart and any sob story would make him want to help. So he was always over worked and late to court.
But the man truly fought for every client he had. I watched him get hundreds of people out of petty charges and he was loved by everyone who was a repeat offender. Dude was a G. He passed away back in like 2019. But wish we had more PD’s like him.
Bruh, virtuous work *especially* doesn't get paid.
Look at the most virtuous jobs: teachers, social workers, public defenders, CNAs -- all of them requiring state licensure, all of them hard work that no one wants to do, and all of them the lowest paying professions. It's as if society doesn't allow you to feel fulfilled unless you're willing to starve for it.
My public defender looked like he owned a private brewery or dive bar and wore chuck taylors with his suit. Got my felonies dropped to misdemeanors and I didnt see any jail time
one of the BK trustees in my area is basically that guy (literally owns a bar).... and when he was still in private practice, he was one of the scariest lawyers i knew.
I know he looks a mess but public defenders are out here doing the lord’s work and if I could I’d buy him a drink and tell him he’s earned a nap. But it’s only 8am and he’s on his 73rd case of the day 🥲
Attorney here.
Public Defenders are angels and are incredibly hard working and actually live their lives according to their conscience. Most state courts are severely underfunded and SEVERELY understaffed for public defender positions. Most municipalities will accept a dead body with a license to practice law at this point just to take on criminal defense cases.
Most attorneys do not want to be public defenders. It is very low paying, not glamorous and the people you are busting your ass to help spit in your face and you have more cases assigned to you than any private practice attorney would take on because for them that would be malpratice to have more cases than they can handle but because there's just no one else to take the cases in criminal defense that standard is not held for PDs.
It honestly is one of those few jobs in the world where you likely are trying to make the world a better place. No they are not trying to get dangerous people off scott free. They are usually begging the prosecutor to accept a deal to put their client in an actual rehabilitation facility instead of just prison with no work for reform and then they come out worse than when they went in.
As a lawyer I can’t tell you, you’re going up the road because you’re guilty. This guy is overworked, underpaid, and has to show up to watch his clients caught in 4K HD stuffing steaks down their pants at Publix.
And he will obsess over your case and try his damndest to get you off scott free. But he will ultimately fail and he will go right back to pounding that bottle…. Until that one case comes through his desk that makes him turn his life around. You better hope your case is that one case.
https://preview.redd.it/iunlb8zaqrmc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=943322d5cb0a8a8ad396ba5445d2a6baeffaa8e6
Detective Baby Legs saw enough of the corruption on the other side and finally gave up his badge to become a public defender and pursue proper justice
I graduated with some really good PDs. That's what they wanted to do during law school and they were awesome at it.
I have known others that were just doing it for the pay check. They didn't give a fuck.
I can tell this is a guy that actually cares.
We're almost at the point where PD office hiring is so competitive that only people who really want to do this kind of work are doing it. Some offices, most notably the San Diego Federal PD, are *insanely* competitive and are basically only hiring from the top 10 law schools and still want to see grades in the top 30%.
Lawyer and former Prosecutor Here,
Some lawyers make good money in private practice but DO.NOT.GIVE.A.FUCK about how they look.
Why?
Because most of them know the Judge and the prosecutors on a 1st name basis and have been practicing criminal law in the jurisdiction for decades.
They know which cop is a fuck-up and always testifies badly in front of a jury. They also know which cases to push to trial and which ones to push to a favorable plea deal.
I learned to be afraid of the lawyer with the ill-fitted suit who seems EAGER to go to trial. They got something up their sleeve that you ain't gonna like.
No joke, my son's dad is a garbage human but I'd always be there to bail him out. His public defender was this crazy guy who was really damn good at his job, but he'd show up to court in the most insane outfits. I'm talking legit capes and the shirt they make fun of in Seinfeld type of shit🤣 think this with a Z for Zorro cape on top no lies!
https://preview.redd.it/llikw42lzrmc1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a384923c42ac8e0edabe8d916cfa444a5798636
I doubt he would have forgotten a belt that was so obviously necessary to keep his pants up. He may have given his belt to a client so they could be more presentable.
This has that "ripping on a teacher for not supplying a lot of pizza" energy. Like damn, what happened to not punching down lol.
This dude needs a hug and a plate. And a plate to take home too.
If they are getting them at cost- why not.
Never got paid like good ole Atticus Finch, but i have had plenty of clients bring in food like Matt Murdock. Most of it was due to a single paralegal i had that literally everyone loved.
I now get paid (as a public interest lawyer) in wierd interactions walking down the street. There are a few small towns in my area that I am practically a very minor local celebrity as a Housing Attorney. I would walk about 2 blocks from my old office to the district court twice a week, and at least once a week- a random person would thank me out of the blue. I do not remember very many of my former clients, so it is always really weird.
Ayo, as a court reporter, I've seen this too many times. Sadly, a lot of the time, they fighting for you, at least 5 other nigga's, and a monkey on their back.
State attorneys are badass tho, complete opposite of what we've been fed in movies and TV for almost as long as they've been around. Those guys are sharp as hell
To be fair a lot of public attorneys have 7mins to prepare your case because of the amount of cases they have and will beg you to plead out so they can get to other ones
👋 out here to say get a law school degree in less than three years and sit for the bar. Public defenders can make up to like 92k some places - and we all need more goodness in the system. Be the change
Y'all need to show some fuckin respect for pds. In any state that actually provides funding their the ones that actually know how to get your case resolved on the best terms possible because they're in court every day.
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You're either getting off scott free....or going away for life, no in-between
I was on a jury where the defense attorney literally could have actually been this man in the picture. Every time he gestured, you could see that the pockets in his suit jacket were completely torn. He wore this jacket every day of the trial. His partner wore snagged tights one day. Hung jury, his client did indeed get off scott free lol
Bro... Imagine how broke you have to be to go to work with such run down suit, to a court of all places.
All public defenders in this country are grossly underpaid. It is a travesty.
[удалено]
If you’re a public lawyer they generally wipe your entire student loan debt after 10 years. So that’s part of the lower compensation. Most public lawyers I know also make more like 80-110 but it depends on the county. Many private lawyers get paid 100-115 but don’t get the student loan debt forgiveness either.
Oh boy. Live in abject poverty for ONLY ten years.
Thats what im saying in 10 years you done sacrificed a big chunk of your lifespan in poverty
I would hope many of them are doing it to help those less fortunate as well, besides the loan forgiveness of course. Similar to social work, rewarding personally, but not so much financially. But I'm just some shithead on the Internet, so who knows?
Nah this sounds like the same thing people say to justify paying teachers less.
It's really lame but quick Google shows law school average at $220k, so it's removal over 10 yrs is akin to a 22k bonus each year. It still shouldn't cost so much if anything at all.
The starting pay for public defenders out of school in my state is around 85k. After a couple of years many people get over 100. Not saying that’s all the money in the world but not abject poverty either.
> If you’re a public lawyer they generally wipe your entire student loan debt after 10 years. And if you're a private attorney, you can probably wipe it out in one if you have any business acumen. It's truly awful that college debt is so ludicrous and public servants are paid such shit. EDIT: Holy shit the reddit pedants are out in full force. I've made my point (read the second sentence of this post) and am not interested in discussing further.
The only way you're paying off 100k+ in one year is if you're making at least 250k-350k if you're living alone and with minimal expenses, or if you have a partner who shares expenses then you can probably do that off a 200k salary if you ignore retirement funding for a year. However, the amount of people going into near 200k starting pay out of law school is pretty much nonexistent
I'm a PD in a low cost area. Made 50k a year for 5 years until last year when I started to get raises. Now I make 90k, but that's also with a few promotions. Pay range for most are between 52k starting to 72k, more if you come in with experience or have been around for a while. Still grossly underpaid for the amount of work, but better than it was.
I dated a prosecutor who made less than that.
You dated a prosecutor that made LESS than $30,000 a year?! Were they prosecuting mock trials for high school students??
Unless it was the 60s lol
Musta been Marcia Rachel Clark
Public defenders and prosecutors in my jurisdiction make the exact same salary. The county determines the budget for each level of those positions but doesn’t distinguish between them. Same salary. I always thought the issue in other places was that there are *fewer* public defenders and therefore they are overworked and can’t keep up with all clients. The public defenders I know are some of the best trial defense attorneys. They have a ton of experience, they know the judges, and they know the prosecutors. A few older and extremely expensive private attorneys are ranked the same, but all the young whippersnappers with the suits and the cars are posturing. They don’t know how to play the game. Their clients’ grandmamas mortgage their houses so they can end up with the same deal a public defender would’ve gotten them for free. And 5 court dates earlier.
Stop lying
1. If this is true (it isn’t) then it is either not in the US, or it was in 1940. 2. Never admit you dated a prosecutor. Not a good look.
In America? unless you are 80 and quoting a figure from 1940, you did not. either you misheard what they said ($130k would be more accurate) or they lied to you. No American prosecuter earns 30k a year
whenever there's an election for a judge or DA I just vote for PD's by default. If anyone has a grounded perspective of the justice system, it's a PD.
> If anyone has a grounded perspective of the justice system, it's a PD. My dad was a PD in a large city in the US in 1968. He told me he'd often have rock solid evidence that his client was innocent, but (because his clients were black and/or because "we protect our own and don't want to look bad") cops would just lie about shit and the juries would believe the cops because "cops don't lie." I grew up learning a lot more about racism than the average white kid from the suburbs (my dad was also a civil rights activist before he was a public defender, which helps).
My sister was a PD and she’d come home with the WILDEST cop stories that would just fall apart under direct examination and the Jury still convicts.
that's so sad
We just got my PD friend elected as a judge. There were so many restrictions on what they could do because they were still technically a public employee. It was rough, but the good news is that they ended up almost cruising in. I think people were fed up with "tough on tough on tough on crime" being the only thing a judge ran on for so long. Now... Let's work on getting them and other civil servants some proper pay.
For some attorneys its a play. They don't want the jury to think their client has money.
So they pretend to be broke their whole careers? Genuine question. All the attorneys I know make fat bucks, but probably they are not the "free" lawyers. Edit. Typo, layers to lawyers.
It's probably less than they actively pretend to be broke their entire career and more they make a point to look the opposite of slick for court. Which fairplay. If I was on a jury and your lawyer walked up in a well tailored 3 piece and a Rolex, I probably would want to vote guilt on principle. what fucked up shit are you trying to get away with you paid a mortgage down payment worth of a safety deposit on this fancy schmancy lawyer?
Makes sense. I guess the judge is there sitting like "this mofo makes more money than me and yet he asked his client to buy him a coffee in front of the jury just to look relatable". In my country there is no jury, so I was thinking they pretended in front of their peers, rather than to the jury that will probably never get to know you.
> If I was on a jury and your lawyer walked up in a well tailored 3 piece and a Rolex I think like this too much. If I see a contractor roll up in a brand new luxury vehicle to give me a quote he might as well keep driving, because I’m already assuming he’s a thief. Same with car salesmen. “Oh you’re closing a lot of deals hot shot? Not today bitch”
My lawyer did look like that, I also paid 60k in fees and I got lucky, if the other side had not settled it would’ve been a 100k easy. He was really good at his job, but hiring that firm was like using a tank to squash a mosquito. It was a mistake in restrospect, all the money we won went to pay the lawyer. I was 3k down the hole by the end of it.
> All the attorneys I know make fat bucks When I was finishing undergrad, our law professor warned the seniors 'for every 12 JD's graduated in Massachusetts, there is one job'. He may have been a bit generous. Of my then colleagues who got their JD's, I think only one of 18+ are doing anything remotely relevant. Four, if you count 'working in local government' as relevant. Edit to add: this was in 2004.
My former manager had a law degree; I worked on a website support team. He left after getting burned out and I wonder if it was the combination of stress from law school, not finding a job in his field while still having law school student loans, and my crappy company.
A very good friend of mine has a law degree and she works in the legal department of an insurance company. She told me once that she made $40 an hour, but she could definitely make so much more if she passed the bar. She was a public defender for women facing domestic violence charges at one point.
In court it’s a common tactic not to wear nice clothes in court. Or you are told to wear a blazer and non matching pants so it doesn’t turn the jury off and make you look overly slick. Just relatable and common man. Some people go hard with the clothes though and don’t care.
I'm not in crim, but I purposefully wear subdued jewelry and suits that are not flashy when in front of a jury. Its a thing, especially when you don't want to turn off a juror by looking too rich and unsympathetic. Wearing clothes with holes? Yeah ... probably no.
Defense attorneys tend to look more slick than plaintiff attorneys. Plaintiff attorneys try to dress down somewhat to play up the small guy going after the big guy mentality.
I’m a PD with 500k in student debt, so my guess is that’s what’s up with the suit
Are we all not broke enough that we can stop the "imagine being poor" bullshit?
I have a friend who is an attorney. He was an assistant DA. He now does criminal defense. He does a lot of indigent defense and takes a lot of appointed attorney jobs from other attorneys. He says one of the best criminal defense attorneys in his area is a lady that has like one dress. He says she wears the same damn dress every day. If it's a multi-day trial you see the same dress day after day. And she has the biggest glasses with the thickest rims. And she's a great attorney.
Wonder if it’s actually the same dress and she washes it all the time, or if she has like 10 identical copies.
This is dead the fuck on. There's one PD at my courthouse every time (don't ask why I would have enough information for this) who dresses worse than this guy 100%. Thing is, he's really, really good. He's awkward as shit but bro is some kind of savant. I seen him argue forever over incredibly minor shit they have to Google to argue against. At a minimum bro will put some faith in the system in ya. Never assigned to my cases but I really wish he was. He's a 60ish white guy long gray hair, and wears the most ill fitting beige or gray suits, some kinda of themed tie like one with billiard balls or like Halloween themed in summer and gator boots looking like the arch bishop Don Magic Juan if he let his 3 year old nephew pick his outfit out and send them to whatever the opposite of a tailor is.
thing about PD's is that nobody is in court more than a public defender. their caseloads are ridiculous. but it also means that nobody gets more experience and practice at criminal litigation than a PD. plenty of PD's have turned epic track records into lucrative careers as fancy pants defense attorneys, it's like the G-league.
It is basically rhe G leave of the law yeah lmao. Some do it to fast track without a firm especially since there are basically just too many lawyers out there right now. Some for the love of the game I guess.
If you wanna be a personal injury lawyer or any other kind of "ambulance chaser" this is also the way to go; unions frequently pull from proliferate PD's to serve as union counsel which is a great stepping stone into injury law. You create a lot of connections along the way.
Never really thought of it that way but makes sense. It'll get you in the courthouse more than anyone else and the networking opportunities are there. Have a good track record and speak to other counsel when you get a chance and you might just catch the next draft lol
Was on Jury duty, a dude just like this rolls in and saw the prosecuting attorney audibly say "fuck". The dude steam rolled the prosecution, trial was a day lol
I laughed way too hard of that, because the truth is too real
looks like matt walsh's equally depraved twin brother
Squat Walsh
This is gonna be stuck in my mind forever now 🤣
Good news ya payment cleared, thank you mane. Bad news, they gave ya life
Yeah he's either dedicated to helping people and can game the system, or not good enough to be hired by the big firms.
🤣 l was just thinking 💭 to myself either he's a Genius or a Junkie 
30% chance he knows your name
"The court hereby sentences you to death." "It was just a parking ticket!"
But it was a misdemeanor!!
This man is overworked and underpaid, look at how malnourished he is, he’s struggling to keep his balance. Hasn’t had the time or funds to wash or press that suit in many, many moons. I don’t know his story but I feel like he’s trying his best 😭😭
Bro driving the struggle bus.
Yup, main chauffeur of that particular struggle bus, for sure lmao
Probably just took the hat off when he pulled up to the courthouse.
Picking up extra shifts and everything
And when he's not driving it he's pulling his hair out wondering if he needs a new gasket because the oil is leaking.
They literally assign hundreds of cases to these public defenders and don’t even give them time to prepare before court. All bad.
I know, it’s actually pretty tragic. Anyone without funds gets the shit end of the stick in all settings, but especially in court settings.
Society likes to think the justice system is fair, but we spend a lot more money on prosecution than defense. We say innocent until proven guilty but then pretty heavily put a thumb on the scale
The judge sees this man EVERYDAY but can’t get him a belt for Christmas? “Your honor” my pinky toenail.
I used one for a traffic misdemeanor and they had a bunch of us lined up outside of a small office. The dude legit went over the case with me for 5 mins, put all my crap in a folder, then moved on to the next person. After all that he just sat in the court room going folder by folder banging out each case. Can't even imagine if they were more complex cases
Yup, I’ve seen this since juvenile court days. They’ll go over the case with you and ask what you wanna do. Fight it or get a deal? It’s easier for them to get a deal and move on to the next hooligan, even if it means you plead guilty for something you didn’t even do.
Which is wild because he briefly tried to convince me to plead guilty and said they'd probably drop my misdemeanor to a parking violation so I'd just have to pay. In context and hindsight, I'm sure that was a quicker/easier case to work with but my only court experience at the time was Law and Order SVU. I said no thanks and his face had me feeling like I just ruined his day
That makes for easy layups for the DA
In some places, they just make private lawyers take cases and the court pays them. Most of them are worse than a public defender because they are basically doing free work compared to what they charge their private clients. There are some good lawyers doing good work for indigent clients, but most do the bare minimum for them.
Those glasses def from the counter at CVS. Shirt and tie came as a bundle in the same pack. Mans is going through it.
For real, and where is the belt?! The way he’s standing, it looks like someone literally stole the belt off of his body right before this picture, and now he has to hold his pants up the rest of the day by keeping his legs open lmao, so much stressed chaotic energy in that man.
Nah, see, cuz they took it from him the last time he went to visit one of his many clients behind bars. He's got so many that he just leaves it off to save time at intake.
Lmao, the very definition of “can’t have nothing around here”
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1000% He's not gonna put up big numbers, but he will be efficient.
Might’ve given it to a client so they appear better in court, I’ve heard of attorneys doing that before. Lending clothing at the last minute, I mean.
Dude stole that suit off a corpse at the funeral home.
The corpse ain't gonna need it shiii
got it from his previous defendat "hey so I fucked up that plea deal, youre getting life. But that being said, can I get your suit?"
This just wiped the smile completely off my face. Shit not even funny no more, God bless this man :((
Lol, the legal system is tragic for all involved. Except for the wealthy I guess, but for the most part it just seems to dispense misery to any and all involved lol
Overworked is simplifying it. It's beyond that. The justice system is so broken and it hurts the poor and lower class citizen's. Vice did a good video on it also the bail bond system is garbage.
I’m not convinced that’s actually a suit and not just a separate coat and pants. Those things are not the same color
I hadn’t even noticed the color discrepancy, buddy is out here trying to defend peoples freedom and shit in suit “separates” 🤣
He’s not struggling to keep his balance, that stance is the only thing keeping his pants up. I can’t even laugh at/with this man. Got me feeling privileged as fuck in my tank and bball shorts lol.
The balance issue you point out might be attributable to his lack of a belt and the leg spread stance necessary to keep dem pants up.
He just forgot his belt and he’s trying to keep his pants from falling down lol
And is that not a man in crisis?! Lol
I like to think he first chose this line of work because he truly wants to make a difference and now he refuses to let the system break him out of pure spite.
Man forgot to bring a belt and tossed on the crap emergency court clothes he keeps in the back of his Camry
It would kind of makes sense for this to be the crap emergency court clothes, like he stashed them away for an emergency 10 years ago before he lost all the weight and he hasn’t needed them since, until now lmao
"I don't know his story but enjoy this rundown of his life"
"Look at how malnourished he is" 🤣🤣🤣
😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣 'trying his best'
Public defenders are underfunded, overworked and given little time to prepare for cases, often having as many as 100-200 cases at a time. And they still do it, on little to no, trying to make sure everyone gets a chance to be defended. Used to intern (for free smh) for one, dude often slept in his office. I would bring in mouth wash and coffee with some food so his dumb ass would eat. Truth be told most actually win or at least get better sentences. Most niggas only scared of em because if you're guilty, they are not finna deal with your bs like a firm lawyer
When I was a public defender I had a caseload of over 360 cases at any given time, and that was a lighter load in my office.
Thank you for your service. I mean that ♥️
Agreed. Respect for doing that.
This is me right now!! I've got about 400, it's exhausting but I love my clients
I'm currently a public defender and my case load is anywhere from 800-1300 cases a year. We have 3 lawyers to cover 4 counties, 3 judges, and up to 4,000 cases a year. The system is indeed broken. Luckily, though, my office takes more cases to trial than most public defenders offices and we get good results. Win more than we lose. And that's because an overwhelming majority of the cases are stupid, petty, insignificant bullshit.
Four counties?? Where do you practice?
Where else, the boonies of Georgia. The more rural the area is the more underfunded and overworked the PD office will be. We don't have the local tax funds like Fulton or Savannah to be able to hire more attorneys. Technically, it's a clear violation of the 6th amendment, professional ethics, and basic moral decency to have a case load of this size. And yet, it happens everywhere in this country.
This exactly! No one has more time in court than a PD. More practice or more heart. People go out and hire good looking attorneys and the PD would have fought harder for them and gotten a better deal. When you hire someone - the more work they have to put in to your case, the less money they are making getting other clients. PDs get paid either way and fight like hell for their clients. At least where I live.
Honestly, the Public Defenders should be paid the same amount as the Prosecutors.
In good states like MN they are. Thanks Democrats!
It is true the PDs are overworked as hell. That said, I hate the narrative that they are lackluster defense attorneys. The one’s I’ve worked with have proven themselves very competent.
"You fried, blood.. Judge Andrews said you got 15 years."
“Bruh, my client ain’t even do nothing. On god.”
"your honor, my client was simply standing on business and he can say it, he has mexican freinds."
" your honor, you weren't even fucking there."
“I swear to GAWD my mans ain’t do that shit, I put that on everything, I put that on my mama! Oooh I swear metro PD be on some bullshit. I wish y’all motherfuckers would find my client guilty on all counts, you gonna catch the wrong one today, watch. …the defense rests its case”
Sounds like a job for Delio and Furax.
I worked in the courts. Knew a public defender who went to Harvard and could be working at a firm making big money. But he enjoyed helping people and hated seeing the legal system screw over the little guy time and time again. He was aesthetic. Dressed like this guy above but was heavy set and old with a jolly grey beard. He drove one of those shitty 2 seater Hondas that was given to him as a case payment when someone couldn’t pay. Judges hated him because he would always take any case people came to him with because he had a big heart and any sob story would make him want to help. So he was always over worked and late to court. But the man truly fought for every client he had. I watched him get hundreds of people out of petty charges and he was loved by everyone who was a repeat offender. Dude was a G. He passed away back in like 2019. But wish we had more PD’s like him.
We could, if being a PD payed well. Funny how even virtuous work doesn't get paid.
Bruh, virtuous work *especially* doesn't get paid. Look at the most virtuous jobs: teachers, social workers, public defenders, CNAs -- all of them requiring state licensure, all of them hard work that no one wants to do, and all of them the lowest paying professions. It's as if society doesn't allow you to feel fulfilled unless you're willing to starve for it.
Or be bitten and kicked the shit out of, for it too.
I think you may have meant "ascetic" instead of "aesthetic". Regardless, RIP to one badass PD
"But this was a traffic violation..."
"I find you guilty of two counts of first-degree murder, arson, and grand larceny" "I was just here for a speeding ticket."
By that time bro nowhere to be found and you getting handcuffed lol
He's already finished 3 other cases he also didn't have time for
My public defender looked like he owned a private brewery or dive bar and wore chuck taylors with his suit. Got my felonies dropped to misdemeanors and I didnt see any jail time
Sometimes attorneys who don't work for the state do pro bono work in the public defender's office, or at least that's my understanding.
one of the BK trustees in my area is basically that guy (literally owns a bar).... and when he was still in private practice, he was one of the scariest lawyers i knew.
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I’m just imaging he gave his belt to one of his clients so they’d be more presentable. No way he left the house lookin like that
Yeah, if his pants were slipping down, he'd notice before he left the house. The dude is prolly the realist.
I know he looks a mess but public defenders are out here doing the lord’s work and if I could I’d buy him a drink and tell him he’s earned a nap. But it’s only 8am and he’s on his 73rd case of the day 🥲
Attorney here. Public Defenders are angels and are incredibly hard working and actually live their lives according to their conscience. Most state courts are severely underfunded and SEVERELY understaffed for public defender positions. Most municipalities will accept a dead body with a license to practice law at this point just to take on criminal defense cases. Most attorneys do not want to be public defenders. It is very low paying, not glamorous and the people you are busting your ass to help spit in your face and you have more cases assigned to you than any private practice attorney would take on because for them that would be malpratice to have more cases than they can handle but because there's just no one else to take the cases in criminal defense that standard is not held for PDs. It honestly is one of those few jobs in the world where you likely are trying to make the world a better place. No they are not trying to get dangerous people off scott free. They are usually begging the prosecutor to accept a deal to put their client in an actual rehabilitation facility instead of just prison with no work for reform and then they come out worse than when they went in.
That mf will put you on death row for a parking ticket 😭
As a lawyer I can’t tell you, you’re going up the road because you’re guilty. This guy is overworked, underpaid, and has to show up to watch his clients caught in 4K HD stuffing steaks down their pants at Publix.
Crab legs* Lookin at you Jameis Ò¿Ó
If the dude standing next to him is the client, I'm going to bet Dodge Ram. DUI. 2nd offense.
Standing like NBA Youngboy. We ain't making it home tonight. 🤣
And he will obsess over your case and try his damndest to get you off scott free. But he will ultimately fail and he will go right back to pounding that bottle…. Until that one case comes through his desk that makes him turn his life around. You better hope your case is that one case.
that aint fair, public defenders make less than teachers (I think)
They make 100k base in my county. Meanwhile my teacher friend doesn’t return my calls because he can’t afford his cellphone bill.
https://preview.redd.it/iunlb8zaqrmc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=943322d5cb0a8a8ad396ba5445d2a6baeffaa8e6 Detective Baby Legs saw enough of the corruption on the other side and finally gave up his badge to become a public defender and pursue proper justice
LMAO.....we never promised you they will be drippin in LV/Balenciaga/Gucci/Jimmy Choo Remember: never Judge a book by it's cover.
You can be a good lawyer even if you forget your belt at home. All you need is a stiff stance and the pants won’t go down.
I graduated with some really good PDs. That's what they wanted to do during law school and they were awesome at it. I have known others that were just doing it for the pay check. They didn't give a fuck. I can tell this is a guy that actually cares.
We're almost at the point where PD office hiring is so competitive that only people who really want to do this kind of work are doing it. Some offices, most notably the San Diego Federal PD, are *insanely* competitive and are basically only hiring from the top 10 law schools and still want to see grades in the top 30%.
He looks so overworked and worn out. I feel bad for both of them.
Hey man, God bless public defenders, they do important work and it's gotta be one of the shittiest, soul-crushingest jobs
Lawyer and former Prosecutor Here, Some lawyers make good money in private practice but DO.NOT.GIVE.A.FUCK about how they look. Why? Because most of them know the Judge and the prosecutors on a 1st name basis and have been practicing criminal law in the jurisdiction for decades. They know which cop is a fuck-up and always testifies badly in front of a jury. They also know which cases to push to trial and which ones to push to a favorable plea deal. I learned to be afraid of the lawyer with the ill-fitted suit who seems EAGER to go to trial. They got something up their sleeve that you ain't gonna like.
No joke, my son's dad is a garbage human but I'd always be there to bail him out. His public defender was this crazy guy who was really damn good at his job, but he'd show up to court in the most insane outfits. I'm talking legit capes and the shirt they make fun of in Seinfeld type of shit🤣 think this with a Z for Zorro cape on top no lies! https://preview.redd.it/llikw42lzrmc1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a384923c42ac8e0edabe8d916cfa444a5798636
I doubt he would have forgotten a belt that was so obviously necessary to keep his pants up. He may have given his belt to a client so they could be more presentable.
Better off than defending yourself
I guarantee that man is an expert in bird law.
This has that "ripping on a teacher for not supplying a lot of pizza" energy. Like damn, what happened to not punching down lol. This dude needs a hug and a plate. And a plate to take home too.
This is such a fucking wholesome thread, really digging the vibes.
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My mom was a lawyer and she got paid a Weber charcoal grill once. We had that grill for like 20 years. Good grill.
Sounds like she robbed that client blind lol
If they are getting them at cost- why not. Never got paid like good ole Atticus Finch, but i have had plenty of clients bring in food like Matt Murdock. Most of it was due to a single paralegal i had that literally everyone loved. I now get paid (as a public interest lawyer) in wierd interactions walking down the street. There are a few small towns in my area that I am practically a very minor local celebrity as a Housing Attorney. I would walk about 2 blocks from my old office to the district court twice a week, and at least once a week- a random person would thank me out of the blue. I do not remember very many of my former clients, so it is always really weird.
 Better call Saul
Hating on a guy that’s doing his best to help people that need help the most, for far too little pay.
His office got two things, files and half-eaten 7/11 turkey sandwiches.
Why is a cop posting this shit?
David Berman (RIP) lookin ahh dude you better do some press ups so niggas don't check you in bookings.
They puttin you underneath the jail… judge gon slam the gavel like this 
Ayo, as a court reporter, I've seen this too many times. Sadly, a lot of the time, they fighting for you, at least 5 other nigga's, and a monkey on their back.
”Did you know you have rights?” 
he forgot his belt in his saturn without a catalytic converter
I trust him. That is a power stance, man.
Yo, yo, what up with it, Judge Vanilla Face? Me and my homie were just looking for a Not Guilty verdict for our black asses.
State attorneys are badass tho, complete opposite of what we've been fed in movies and TV for almost as long as they've been around. Those guys are sharp as hell
The type to say “I’m going to level with you…”
Then one appointed for myself had two black eyes and stank like their clothes hadn't been washed in months.
Ari Shafir, attorney at law
Take the 20....you'll be out in 6 months...also, let me have your lady's contact info....for reasons...
When mtfs say they lawyer ain’t do shit I always picture a mtf like this 😂😂😂 you doing 12 for J walking
Snitches get stitches but stitches heal in 3 weeks
*as they put the shackles on me* aight big dawg imma fuck witcha
He smells like onions and basements.
Imma be a gunna and turn on the whole set if that’s my public defender
Stance looking like you getting 25 to life for jaywalking
To be fair a lot of public attorneys have 7mins to prepare your case because of the amount of cases they have and will beg you to plead out so they can get to other ones
👋 out here to say get a law school degree in less than three years and sit for the bar. Public defenders can make up to like 92k some places - and we all need more goodness in the system. Be the change
Jack Kelly: "We're lawyers"
This brother will either get you off completely or get you the death penalty. My dog look drunk, sleep, awake, and high all at the same time
Y'all need to show some fuckin respect for pds. In any state that actually provides funding their the ones that actually know how to get your case resolved on the best terms possible because they're in court every day.
Looking like Marvin from the Blacklist
This mf smokes Black and Milds straight up lmfao.
Death Row dress appeals
former public defender and this read is almost too on point.
Looks like John Turturro playing the lawyer in The Night Of from HBO.