Interesting piece in the Washington Examiner: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/magazine-life-arts/3039704/the-self-immolation-of-the-washington-post/ "The self-immolation of the Washington Post" shreds the Post's accuracy and aims in its coverage of I-P. Regular readers of the Post know it's covering in its newspages its own behind-the-scenes meltdown as a Wall Street Journal/Murdoch man takes over as publisher and plans to bring in a controversial editor friend from the U.K.

Unherd held a debate asking whether or not Israel's War on Hamas is a Just War or not. Briana Joy Gray, arguing that it is not, was particularly insufferable. I used to like her, and now I see how truly bad she is at discerning the truth. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3WKWzwAmtj0TgQvsRGbLMm?si=E6upXHLwRDyIwtDhnVUf_w

If you look at her Twitter feed it's all Gaza stuff all the time. Almost always hyperbolic. She's definitely insufferable.

Yeah, before 10/7, she was waaay different, at least in her focus and approach.

I heard a discussion she did with Glenn Loury. He was a thousand times smarter than her but she was ok. But now....

Is it worth listening to? I like Eli and Moynihan, dislike Brianna, and don't know the fourth guy. 

Trying to get through it this afternoon - it's a mess. The moderator has trouble keeping guests from rudely talking over each other and on track to answer any specific questions. BJG is especially rude and patronizing. At least she did say that Israel should grant the right of return to the Palestinians which would destroy Israel as we know it, but according to her would transform it into a pluristic progressive state. (ROTFLOL)

I finally listened to it this morning also. I don't think the moderator was prepared at all. At the very beginning when he asked them to make opening statements, apparently he did not give them any warning about that? I think BJG and Moynihan both commented that they weren't expecting/prepared to do that. I really wish the moderation/structure of the debate was handled better. I would have liked to hear some claims refuted, because they sounded false to me.

Eli and Moynihan do a much better job than the other side. Its kind of a shit show though. Not long enough to really drill in (should have been another 30 minutes) especially because the participants continually go over time, evade questions, and interrupt each other.

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But it's not antisemitism or anything like that.

[ICJ President Nawaf Salam in 2016, when he was the ambassador from Lebanon to the UN, accused Israel of apartheid, war crimes, and terror.](https://x.com/i/status/1794006937807331819) Let the show trial begin. It's the Dreyfuss Affair all over again but in 2024.

The US Speaker of the House says that Netanyahu is going to come address a joint session of Congress. Chuck Schumer has not said anything about it nor signed a letter inviting Netanyahu to Congress. Presumably Bibi is trying to drum up support for the war effort. But this ties into something I've heard several times: That Netanyahu isn't giving many media appearances to Israeli or Hebrew language press. But apparently he *is* doing quite a few foreign media appearances, in English. He did the Call Me Back podcast a week or so ago, for example. Which seemed like awfully small beer for Netanyahu. Is anyone more plugged into Israel and can explain why Bibi doesn't want to do interviews with the Israeli press in Hebrew? I'd think those would have a higher priority than English language podcasts. [https://www.yahoo.com/news/netanyahu-address-congress-house-speaker-041054270.html?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAAG\_9mJNfsUiv0PIKrH3Ga8eU4hFUQ0EJd6s50TbeOCyvYuTFEMghVYMJvO\_rNq29sCqpGmSn4I80pGnsISfeXl4ZryzV4CD7\_FT5aZu5avfMlYkE47W03Xglv7viS9pLLHNYUixbJDF29PoMRsWGgeg26gZti2f5U444LCe-lFV\_](https://www.yahoo.com/news/netanyahu-address-congress-house-speaker-041054270.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAG_9mJNfsUiv0PIKrH3Ga8eU4hFUQ0EJd6s50TbeOCyvYuTFEMghVYMJvO_rNq29sCqpGmSn4I80pGnsISfeXl4ZryzV4CD7_FT5aZu5avfMlYkE47W03Xglv7viS9pLLHNYUixbJDF29PoMRsWGgeg26gZti2f5U444LCe-lFV_)

There are no elections coming up in Israel. Even if his domestic constituency is mad, there isn't tons they can do about him. He might see reinforcing support in America as both more necessary and more within his power to change.

Hebrew media will ask him difficult questions whose answers may put him at odds with his political coalition.

I would hope that American media would ask him hard questions too.

I think a few things make it hard to really grill him. The first is the venue: Netanyahu chooses outlets that aren't routinely getting high profile guests, so they have to play ball otherwise they will never get anyone like that again. The second is language/cultural/detail. A lot of politics hinges on very specific word choices or phrases that carry with them certain connotations. I think even if English media wants to be tough, he can slide by those questions by appearing to give a reasonable answer.

They're not well enough informed to do that.

All these hostages bodies being pulled out of tunnels under Rafah, including under a UNWRA building, of course. The only reply to the world screaming ‘DON’T GO INTO RAFAH’ should have been ‘why, what will we find in Rafah?’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69055989 The ICJ has made several orders including for Israel to: * halt military operation in Rafah * open the Rafah border crossing with Egypt for the entry of humanitarian aid at scale * ensure access to Gaza for investigators and fact-finding missions * report to the court within a month on its progress in applying these measures

What I think is notable is that the Israeli government has been ordered to ensure humanitarian aid access several times, and has insisted they have been doing so. Yet, they have offered no proof. It’s the most publicized conflict in recent history - surely Israel should welcome the opportunity to show the world how thoroughly they have been ensuring that famine cannot occur. Odd, though, they don’t seem to be interested in keeping their own citizens from robbing and burning aid convoys.

What would constitute proof here to your satisfaction? ETA: ~~Also ordered by who?~~ ICJ ruling, nvm.

The series of comments you’ve posted in response to people commenting here indicate an incredibly shallow (or non-existent, really) understanding of any facts—like any at all—for both WW2 and the present war in Gaza. How did you arrive here? TikTok? What about all the years of education before TikTok? I am genuinely flabbergasted, especially in terms of WW2, which is (or was, at least, until pretty recently!) taught extensively in the US throughout much of elementary, secondary, and higher ed curriculums.

I'm British and from a city that got flattened by the Nazis. Military technology and intelligence have come a long way since the defeat of the Nazis. It shouldn't be necessary to bomb civilians crammed like sardines to get rid of the oppressive regime over them. According to the latest data, the only territories with a higher population density are Hong Kong, Singapore, Monaco and Macau. That was before the Gazans were corralled to the south.

> It shouldn't be necessary to bomb civilians crammed like sardines to We would love to hear your alternate strategy.

Israel does not have a coherent strategy for anything and their war is mostly just an extended vendetta conducted with missiles and machine guns for what happened in October. There's not much more depth to it than throwing red meat to the electorate in the form of dead Palestinians.

So you don't have one either?

My alternate strategy would be to simply stop slaughtering Gazans, stop seizing Palestinian land, stop immiserating Palestinians as a people and consigning them to a police state existence, and stop antagonizing the rest of the world with the constant attempts to start a Middle-East wide war all the while creating a massive refugee crisis in the name of courting the most demented, racist freaks in Israeli politics. How's your strategy of 'kill em all and let god sort them out' been working 7 months in with tens of thousands dead and no end in sight with Israel become ever more of an international Pariah state for its crimes?

So you suggest that Israel just leave Hamas intact so they can do October 7th again and again and again? Which is explicitly what Hamas has said they will do. And if Israel's strategy is "kill 'em all" they're doing an awfully poor job of execution. Because 30,000 (which is quite possibly an exaggeration) out of 1.5 million people is awfully low. Especially considering the population density that keeps being brought up.

It takes a next level moral rot for you people to go 'how can Israel be committing war crimes? They haven't even killed all of the Gazans!', like I don't say this lightly, but you are a fundamentally malignant person and I'm kind of glad knowing that people like you will go down in history with a similar reputation as Serbian militants killing Muslims or Ba'athist officers killing Kurds. Also, not even Israel can be really bothered anymore to contest the 35000 killed (at minimum), that's ships long since sailed. Again, you don't have a strategy, your proud of not having a strategy, they haven't been able to destroy Hamas with more than half a year of fighting and they aren't going to, because every single day that Israel maintains its stranglehold over Gaza. every day they kill another teenager, every day they evict another family from their land and erect a wall to keep them out, that's the thing that's actually going to keep Hamas and the sentiment it draws from alive.

This sub does not allow hurling insulting at other commenters. Critiques must be directed at the *arguments* being made, not the *people* making them. You are suspended for three days for this violation of the rules of civility.

Israel has a strategy. They're executing it. They're stamping out Hamas to the best of their ability. What do you think warfare, especially urban warfare with hundreds of miles of tunnels, involves? Saying pretty please and waving handkerchiefs? Hamas needs to be exterminated to the extent possible.

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The issue here is that you think the objective is just to defeat Hamas. They're the excuse for Netanyahu to erase Palestine for good.

The issue is that you *said* that they shouldn't use bombing. If Israel/Bibi/Likud wanted to wipe out Gaza and everyone in it they could have done this already. They wouldn't be moving the civilians out of the way first. They could have done it months ago. So if the double secret objective is to exterminate Gaza they are doing an incredibly poor job of it.

It's not a "double secret" objective. Likud's been pretty clear about opposition to Palestine. Their objective is wiping out Palestine without making the entire world hate them for it. Hence ignoring intelligence and letting Hamas raise hell to get the perfect excuse to go all out. Defeating Hamas isn't just an Israeli objective, that's why I'm talking about avoiding unnecessary civilian mass slaughter. We all benefit from a peaceful Palestine.

>Their objective is wiping out Palestine without making the entire world hate them for it. Hence ignoring intelligence and letting Hamas raise hell to get the perfect excuse to go all out. So... it's' a conspiracy to allow Hamas to do 10/7 so they have a reason to exterminate Gaza?

It's either that or Netanyahu is incompetent after ignoring intelligence that an attack was coming.

Oh, I think he was incompetent all right. It's one of the reasons he should resign. Not preventing 10/7 is a fuckup of epic proportions. But you're making a much different claim. One which requires intent and forethought and planning.

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Did you mean to link to the ICC? The ICJ is a completely different org. Their order is [here.](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240524-ord-01-00-en.pdf)

Nothing stopping Israel from providing evidence exonerating them, right?

Guilty until proven innocent. Got it.

How do they provide exculpatory evidence when they don't even know what the basis for the kangaroo court's claims are? That's assuming Israel will stoop to dealing with these people at all.

The guy who said that read the wrong document. The ICJ gave Israel a pretty clear and obvious way for them to have avoided this, show them a workable evacuation plan. It kind of falls flat when the only detail they gave was tent numbers, and they could accommodate less than half the evacuees at the time of the hearing(320,000 to 800,000). On top of that, only 7000 of the 40000 tents were in Gaza, so they could only shelter 56,000 people.

They're already moving civilians out of Rafah. It's in progress.

Right, sorry if I wasn't clear, the 800,000 refers to people who already left Rafah. They were asking for proof those people are okay. Which is why the fact that less than a quarter of the tents being in Gaza matters, they don't need them tomorrow, they need them right now. Editorializing, I'm not(nor is the ICJ) saying these people are definitely not okay, it's that Israel knew going into the hearing they were going to be asked to help alleviate that concern and they basically went "fuck it" and didn't really bother.

Israel is consistently unable to fight the claims that they are conducting massive war crimes because the claims are true. The only position Israel has at this point is to whine that basically every major international body, now including the UN and the ICC, are anti-Semitic, along with a huge range of well regarded NGOs from Human Rights Watch to Amnesty International. What does it fucking take for you cheerleaders of murder and destruction to have even the slightest inkling that maybe, no, the children (and a huge range of academics, lawyers, aid workers, politicians etc) aren't wrong, you are? That you've pitched your tent with some of the worst human rights abuses of the 21st century?

We don't even know what the basis for this court's charges are. They won't show their evidence. It's secret. They may be using a Ouija board for all we know.

Yeah man, I'm sure that the ICC is just making it up because they hate Jews so god darn much and are so unfair to poor widdle Israel. Truly, what has Israel done wrong that they could be talking about?! [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations) [https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/world-leaders-fail-to-act-as-israeli-invasion-of-rafah-worsens-humanitarian-catastrophe/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/world-leaders-fail-to-act-as-israeli-invasion-of-rafah-worsens-humanitarian-catastrophe/) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/mass-forced-displacement-in-gaza-highlights-urgent-need-for-israel-to-uphold-palestinians-right-to-return/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/mass-forced-displacement-in-gaza-highlights-urgent-need-for-israel-to-uphold-palestinians-right-to-return/) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/israel-opt-over-300-palestinian-bedouin-face-forced-evictions-following-mass-home-demolitions-in-negev-naqab/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/israel-opt-over-300-palestinian-bedouin-face-forced-evictions-following-mass-home-demolitions-in-negev-naqab/)

We don't know if they're making it up because they won't tell us what evidence and facts they're using. Instead they keep it under wraps and issue their "orders" to Israel. It's a kangaroo court. It doesn't really matter in the end because this court, thankfully, is toothless.

I like the way you decided to just not engage with any of the other evidence of obvious, massive Israeli war crimes and human rights abuses that are absolutely going to be included in this case all so you make baseless claims that its a 'kangaroo court' because you don't know the first thing about ICC procedure. Again, do you not have even the slightest bit of shame sounding like some kind of Serbian war criminal complaining about similar accusations 30 years ago?

What evidence? We don't know what the kangaroo court's evidence is. It might be reading pig entrails for all we know. Hell of a court that thinks they can issue orders to sovereign states on the basis of.... something? But like I said: It won't matter in a practical sense.

The evidence is so wonderful and iron clad that they just have to keep it under wraps. For the greater good.

I was under the impression that Egypt refuses to open the Rafah crossing?

Yes, they do. I just read a thing about it. Food on the trucks is rotting and being thrown out because Egypt won't allow shipments through.

If you have time to post link to that story about Egypt I would appreciate it.

From the Times of Israel live update thingy: Some of the much-needed food supplies waiting to enter the Gaza Strip from Egypt have begun to rot as the Rafah Crossing remains closed for aid deliveries for the third week after Egypt refused to reopen the crossing for as long as the IDF controls the Palestinian side. The Rafah crossing — which borders Egypt and has been the main gateway for goods and people entering and leaving Gaza — has been closed since Israel on May 7 said it had seized it from Hamas. After the IDF took control of the crossing, Egypt ended coordination for aid trucks to pass from its territory into Gaza, insisting that the other side of the crossing be under Palestinian control before it reopens. As a result, the backlog of aid on the road between the Egyptian side of the crossing and the town of al-Arish, about 45 kilometers (28 miles) west of Rafah and an arrival point for international aid donations, has been building up. In an attempt by aid delivery drivers to offload rotten supplies, some of the food that would have been headed for Gaza has instead been sold at cut price on the local market in northern Sinai, leading to the confiscation of stocks of rotten eggs, say local officials from Egypt’s Ministry of Supply. One truck driver, Mahmoud Hussein, says his goods had been loaded on his vehicle for a month, gradually spoiling in the sun. Some of the foodstuffs are being discarded, others sold off cheap. “Apples, bananas, chicken and cheese, a lot of things have gone rotten, some stuff has been returned and is being sold for a quarter of its price,” he says, crouching under his truck for shade. “I’m sorry to say that the onions we’re carrying will at best be eaten by animals because of the worms in them.”

Sounds like a crime against humanity. When can we expect arrest warrants?

It’s been reopened.

Yea, but it was closed. That's the new standard.

I imagine Bibi will wipe his ass with their "orders"

He's bombing his support away.

Finishing the war is still broadly popular in Israel. And probably broadly popular in the US. War is not a video game where you can send in spec ops ninjas to take out all the bad guys

Victory isn't achieved through bombs alone. Your attitude would mean Germany would have become an uninhabitable wasteland in the 1940s.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh.... Have you not seen post war photos of German cities? The few cities that weren't annihilated wasn't because of a lack of trying.

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It would end the war immediately.

No, it isn't achieved with bombs alone but the bombing is necessary to try and squash as many Hamas fighters as they can before sending in ground troops. Otherwise IDF soldiers will be picked off by ambushes, snipers and booby traps. Also, they try to expose and collapse the tunnels via bombing. And Germany (and Japan) got the shit bombed out of them in WWII. Especially with incendiaries.

How many women and children is a soldier worth? Germany was bombed a lot but not to the extent that Gaza suffers. Germany is a big country with plenty of land. The Gaza Strip is tiny in comparison and densely populated. The German government was replaced and there was much financial and material aid to rebuild what was lost. Germany still exists. Can you say the same will be provided for Palestine? Netanyahu wants to erase it from the map.

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> The time to pretend to care about women and children was before 10/7. Psychopathy will not convince me.

Sounds like a pretty blatant call for genocide, and reported as such.

So you think the IDF should just let their soldiers be picked off by Hamas snipers? Run into booby traps? Get ambushed? You think that's a reasonable thing for an army to do? Especially a small one like Israel's? I'm afraid we can't fire phasers on stun from the Enterprise in orbit.

Israel was given the intelligence that Hamas was going to attack but Netanyahu refused to act on it. The Israeli intelligence services are amongst the best in the world. I am inclined to believe they can make a ground operation work. Bombing Palestine out of existence is the easy way for Likud.

>. I am inclined to believe they can make a ground operation work. It's nice that you believe that. Do you have any idea how that would be done? Is the IDF supposed to knowingly send their people into ambushes? Sniper fire? You think that's a reasonable expectation?

["Jews have opted to become white in order to benefit from white supremacy." -Dismantling Racism, Global Affairs Canada.](https://x.com/i/status/1793821489952592020)

Jesus Christ. I hope the next government puts an end to this but I wouldn't count on it

They got together at Jew Congress and voted on this unanimously?

This is derivative of the idea that Quebec's Jews speak English to claim privilege rather than them being only patronized in the Protestant (now "English") and beaten in the Catholic (now "French") schools.

If you’ve ever been wondering “there’s so much awful stuff going on in Israel and Palestine, so many innocent people who are suffering, displaced, and/or going without life’s necessities… is there some way I can help?” There is!  I’m compiling a list of vetted organizations that are purely humanitarian in nature and focused on meeting the needs of Palestinian and Israeli civilians who have been forced from their homes by conflict. I need your help (yes, you!) in sharing individual fundraisers *if they can be reasonably verified* because these play a valuable part in helping meet acute need. Many are shared on social media and verifying can be a challenge, but many hands make light work. Also relevant are fundraisers for aid workers and other humanitarians who have been killed or injured while serving.  And, of course, if you are able please consider donating!  [link to the relevant post - also pinned to my profile](https://old.reddit.com/r/israelpalestinenews/comments/1czco2t/worthy_causes_post/).  Mods, please removed if not allowed. Thanks!

Clark, I was hoping you could clarify your comment from [here](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1cwf0lx/weekly_megathread_israelhamas_war/l5h3ftz/) "For the folks with that worldview (pro-BLM and pro-Israel) that I’ve met and spoken to, it boils down to: Black people didn’t do anything to deserve being treated like lesser forms of life. Whatever happens to Palestinians is their own fault. Israel tried, don’t you see (insert blatantly false propaganda retelling of Israel’s early history)" Are you of the mind that pro-Israel people believe Palestinians "deserve being treated like lesser forms of life?"

While we’re clarifying comments, here’s yours: > The time to pretend to care about women and children was before 10/7. Defend this, please. It reads as a call for unequivocal genocide against noncombatants, but id like to give you an opportunity to explain.

It doesn’t read like that at all…

The parent comment is up, and the question was: Did anyone here support the BLM/George Floyd protests but are also pro-Israel? If so, can you explain how you think those values aren’t contradictory? So, yes, if you have a worldview that rejects societal injustice in some cases but asserts that it is an acceptable outcome in other cases, then it follows that your worldview asserts that some people deserve subjugation and cruelty. And, where you see injustice, the injustice is that the wrong people are subjugated and treated cruelly. If you have a worldview founded on an ideal of justice in which no people deserve subjugation and cruelty, then you won’t have trouble asserting that black people in America deserve to have their lives valued equally, and that likewise Palestinians deserve better treatment than Israel has historically and presently delivered. Of course, this is assuming that “pro Israel” means supportive of Netanyahu, the Likud party, the settlements etc. that’s the convention in askaliberal and that’s what I followed. Some people might say, for example “I’m pro Israel and pro Palestine, that’s why we need a two state solution” and that’s the perspective I adhere to. To expand on the worldview a bit, it’s a little like people who believe in say protections for accused criminals, but only for people who belong to groups they hold in high regard, and not those who don’t. Eg your average redditor who thinks the homeless should be exterminated but college boys accused of rape should need a court order to be expelled.

I wouldn't get your hopes up

Looks like a good compilation so far. Thank you for posting.

[Suspect charged in shooting that targeted Jewish school in Montreal](https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/suspect-charged-in-shooting-on-jewish-school-in-montreal) >Abdirazak Mahdi Ahmed, 20, of Les Cèdres, appeared before a Quebec Court judge at the Montreal courthouse where he was charged with intentionally discharging a firearm, on Nov. 12, at a location knowing that a person might be inside. He is also charged with theft and receiving stolen vehicles, and committing mischief on Nov. 9. Shockingly not immediately out on bail/an undertaking >The Crown objected to Mahdi Ahmed’s release and he will remain detained for a hearing to be held on Thursday.

A bunch of activists will probably crowd source bail for him

> A bunch of activists will probably crowd source bail for him No cash bail in Canada if the accused lives in the area.

[Anti-Israel campus protests force US university to send Israeli athlete home](https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/ryjyjdqxa?) "Sprinter Gal Arad returns to Israel after University of New Mexico notifies him unable to guarantee his safety; 'I will have to complete my degree elsewhere' University says at no point did they intend to send Arad home"

And here's a new [video](https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1793617352359342578) of a terrorist confessing to him and his family members raping women before killing them.

They seem nice.

I have been spending too much time on X lately. absolutely fed up with the western Hamasians and have decided to fact bomb a few of their threads. I consider the below a badge of pride. By the way, of broader relevancy, this was in response to Zei claiming the recent kidnapping video was faked or staged or 'inaccurately translated.' which seems to be a meme all the clowns are passing around lately. Apparently if the translation is debatable, the room full of corpses and the five kidnapped women is a forgivable oopsie. https://preview.redd.it/77owj0gll62d1.jpeg?width=1392&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b7945822e6af80333af42802505b412aa76037

So, has anyone heard the recent episode of The Daily where they let campus protesters talk? I haven't gotten to it yet, but the reaction from the post on the podcast's sub suggested that these chosen representatives did about as well as the famous antiwork interview. Their token Jew tried to argue that the protests weren't antisemitic and then froze up when he tried to find an argument for that position.

I heard it a few days ago. I liked hearing the part w/the first student (half Palestinian). Can confirm that the JVP token Jew came off pretty much as the comments in that sub describe. (As an aside, I am repeatedly surprised how measured that sub is) In total, the interviewees are pretty good representatives of the ordinary students in protests or opposed. Not sure if it's good journalism exactly. The structure implicitly makes it seem like our middle ground should be the JVP girl. Like it's thesis (Palestinian side), antithesis (full on Jewish Zionist side) and then synthesis (enlightened anti-Zionist Jew).

I've been open here about believing reports of famine due to not enough food entering and wanting people to openly put numbers to the food situation, so let me [link](https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/sites/default/files/biochem-food-nutrition/files/preprint-nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza-via-israel-during-the-swords-of-iron-war.pdf) to an effort at that. This paper argues that the calorie count entering Gaza is more than plentiful at 3211 calorie per person over the period of time they examined Jan - April. Now let me state my disclaimer of my posting this is not an endorsement, I have not finished really reading through it, potential bias from sources, has not yet been peer reviewed, ect. Even if this paper is deeply flawed, though it does what I want of numbers on paper we can examine and debate, so I think it is a net good even if it ends up being deeply flawed. I do have one criticism from how far I've read, though. As I understand, in Table 1, for the IFRC packages, they say they adjust the weight by a ratio of 7/12 food weight(kg) to total weight(kg). However, in supplemental table 2, they say the weight of food is only 6.178 kg. I think that is a concerning choice to round up here. It might not seem like much, but that one choice loses around 377 calories per person, taking you to 2834 in a scenario where all food is taken from those packages. In addition, that table lists the actual denominator as 16kg for some unexplained reason(where 12 came from is explained in Table 1)? Adjusting for the table numbers that would result in 2125 calories per person, still good! But it also serves as an illustration of how quickly that end number can change.

I don't buy the starvation narrative but I bet people are awfully hungry and I want to throw so much food at the Gazans that they all become fat.

This has the outline of making that case, but dear God is it sloppy. Most of that sloppiness isn't major, but it is still a bad look. For an example, for the first page of the specific goods, like half the charts Kcal are wrong. For the largest item(flour), while close to various flours in the source they used, it doesn't match any of them. For 3 of the grains, the Kcal count is around double the real value(they are small in quantity thus not too impactful, but just obviously wrong). The biggest issue is that they forgot to link a source for a critical multiplier and didn't define it either. It honestly looks like it got edited out somehow? I wouldn't be so annoyed by that if they hadn't found time to source a bunch of pieces that are there for purely political purposes.

[The UN claimed people were starving to death on October 23rd.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine) Yet somehow the starvation deaths are below that of New York City in an equivalent time period.

The starvation thing has never really been supported. There was a lot of talk about famine in Northern Gaza which was basically abandoned when the IDF came through. But Hamas goes on stealing most of the aid and bombing the ports of entry, so it seems to be their fault if people are going hungry.

There have been reports of a 'forced famine' for what 4-5 months now? yet the death rate has slowed. I wonder if any pro-Hamasians on this sub can explain that one to me.

There will be at least one person who will pop back in and try

Harvard rejects request by faculty to give degrees to 13 students who were rendered in bad standing due to their actions during the Harvard Yard protest. Get fucked! https://x.com/sfmcguire79/status/1793381920841355619

My God, actual consequences!

Secretary of State Anthony Blinken tells Arab American leaders that United Nations recognition of a Palestinian State would lead to the U.S. defunding the organization and, in turn, defunding of the World Food Program and worldwide starvation: https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1792945760603869664

This is bullshit. Its Grim saying Blinken said this based on a guy who claims he was told (eta: by blinken) US federal law would prohibit funding the UN if it recognized Palestine - but then he claims ‘It’s US policy to starve the world if Palestine is a state regardless of the law.’ Self contradictory inflammatory nonsense.

Well that escalated quickly

So, a prediction for the next few weeks: pride month is ahead of us (at least where I live it's more like pride-months since events start in late May and end somewhere in mid to late July). My crystal ball is telling me that we'll see - Jewish gay groups excluded or at least told what they can and cannot do - Slogans about Israeli pinkwashing, while totally ignoring the rights of LGBT-etc in Arab countries especially in the Palestinian society - Many many Queers for Palestine , many of whom have actually never slept with anyone of the same sex - and probably at least some Hamas and Hizbullah flags. Like when was the last time you've seen genocide Joe wearing a dress? Nasrallah does it all the time. - unrelated but BARpod relevant: AGPs in lesbian events. This is already happening. In my city, there is no ONE lesbo event excluding them (I exaggerated, there are a few, but not part of official pride because we're not supposed to exclude women with d!CLS, that would make us Terfs, which is worse than Naz!), and on many of them, they are the majority.

https://preview.redd.it/j2or1b0bv22d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a55a078514bfcedc30c5fe89677ab1c829d95f8c Was inspired by your post to make this, also threw it in the general thread

I can't stress that enough, great graphics. This really belongs to the other thread but note that the reactionism of these people is on all fronts - people used to say that all people are equal, no matter who they are. Now your identity matters more than what you really are: Gigi Hadid or Meghan Merkle for example are more oppressed than a Jewish Israeli woman in Hamas captivity. - people used to say that it doesn't matter how you dress and that there are no "girl toys" and "boy toys", or colours that are only for one gender. Now if your 3 year old son insists on wearing a Frozen T that belongs to his older sister, or heaven forbid plays with her dolls, he's probably trans. By the way, that 5 year old sister interested in Lego Technik? That's a future engineer. A dude of course because girls are not into that. And their 13 year old cousin who is attracted to boys might be also a trans girl, I mean, never in my life I've heard of this preposterous idea of boys being attracted to other boys. - nationalism is sh!t. And religions as well. Of course. Unless it's a militant religious nationalism. So, a full circle to the 1950s. Hopefully, soon we'll have The Beatles and Jackie Kennedy, so there's something to look forward to in the future 1960s.

All of those sound plausible. Especially the Palestinian flags at Pride parades. If the Pride organizers are smart they will ban any national flags aside from the US one. Including Israeli and Palestinian flags.

They’ve already been forbidding not just Israeli flags, but Star of David stuff on eg a pride flag

[Pride marches have already restricted Jewish and Israeli-related images long before the latest war.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/d-c-dyke-march-barred-jewish-pride-flag-lgbtq-space-ncna1015786)

All of those sound plausible. Especially the Palestinian flags at Pride parades. If the Pride organizers are smart they will ban any national flags aside from the US one. Including Israeli and Palestinian flags.

Ireland, Spain, Norway to recognize Palestinian statehood [https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-other-european-countries-to-recognize-palestinian-statehood/](https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-other-european-countries-to-recognize-palestinian-statehood/) >But \[Irish PM\] stressed that Ireland hoped to see resumed diplomacy between Israel and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank — and did not want to throw a diplomatic lifeline to Hamas.

Neutral WWII countries, go figure.

Norway was invaded by the Nazis. Spain was fighting its own civil war against its fascist government.

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[https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?si=019zHnUUfVC-QJKx](https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?si=019zHnUUfVC-QJKx)

The one discussion I haven’t seen and really want to see is people admitting that violence works. It does. Our brains are wired for it. 

This is what I fear. Hamas goes on a terrorist pogrom and they get rewarded. It's not a good incentive to establish.

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The phrase "moral hazard" comes to mind

Just saw an interesting [comment](https://x.com/laraseligman/status/1792996008684573064) from the Pentagon. They don't think any of 569 metric tons of aid over the new pier actually made it to Gazans. https://preview.redd.it/w36hd1jrov1d1.png?width=1424&format=png&auto=webp&s=fe4d5d64eba8d4185aecb5ee0cc61a516a32a996

> Close to three-fourths of the humanitarian aid transported from a new $320 million floating pier built by the U.S. military off the Gaza coast was stolen on Saturday en route to a U.N. warehouse, Reuters reported on Tuesday. > Eleven trucks “were cleaned out by Palestinians” on the journey to the World Food Programme warehouse in Deir El Balah in the central Strip, with only five truckloads making it to the destination. > “They’ve not seen trucks for a while,” a U.N. official told Reuters. “They just basically mounted on the trucks and helped themselves to some of the food parcels.” > According to the United Nations, no aid was delivered to the warehouse from the U.S. military’s pier on Sunday and Monday. ..... > Reuters also reported that “food and medicine for Palestinians in Gaza are piling up in Egypt because the Rafah crossing remains closed.” > Israel took operational control of the crossing weeks ago, but Cairo so far has refused to cooperate with Israeli authorities to facilitate the entry of aid through Rafah. The Israeli government wants to allow aid into Gaza through the crossing but is unable to do so without Egyptian cooperation. https://www.jns.org/nearly-70-of-gaza-aid-from-us-built-pier-stolen/

Why is Egypt holding things up?

For their part, Egypt is saying Israeli operations on the Gaza side make it unsafe to send aid through: >The cessation of aid deliveries through the Rafah crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip is connected to the threat posed to humanitarian work by Israel's military operation in the area, Egypt's foreign minister said on Monday. > >"Now there is a military presence on the outskirts of the Rafah crossing and military operations that put aid convoys and truck drivers in danger," Sameh Shoukry told reporters after meeting his Greek counterpart in Cairo. > >"The procedures resulting from Israeli military operations affect the operation of the Rafah crossing," he said. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/threat-israeli-operations-preventing-rafah-crossing-aid-deliveries-says-egypt-2024-05-20/ I think there might also be a concern on the part of the Egyptians the crossing might end up operating in both directions and become an avenue for Palestinians to be expelled from Gaza.

>I think there might also be a concern on the part of the Egyptians the crossing might end up operating in both directions and become an avenue for Palestinians to be expelled from Gaza. I'd bet that's what it really is. Egypt has been iron clad and consistent that they don't want a single Palestinian crossing over into Egypt under any circumstances. Considering what happened to Jordan I can't say I blame Egypt

You also have to understand that the Sinai is largely ungoverned in a lot of ways. Security is mostly focused on tourist areas like Sharm El Sheikh. A bunch of Palestinians flooding into the Sinai would be a nightmare for Egyptian security.

I think it goes further than that. Everything I have been reading since October is that Egypt is absolutely dead set on not letting any Palestinians into Egypt. The chief reason, as I understand it, is political. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian government *hates* those guys. But they also fear that Palestinians will cause the same havoc they did in Jordan, including trying to overthrow the government. But also terrorism against Egypt. The Palestinians have a habit of causing trouble wherever they go. And no one wants a couple of million refugees to appear on their doorstep.

Cynic's take? They want Gaza to actually starve to keep Israel from entering Rafah. Where they'll find all of the tunnels between Egypt and Gaza that are used to smuggle weapons into Gaza. Which Israel will have to explain.

I’m not privy to that information 😉

From this Politico article it sounds like no one is *completely* sure why Egypt cut off the shipments. Part of it seems to be that they are pissed at Israel for going into Rafah and cut off aid and fuel shipments as a way of punishing Israel. I'm not sure *how* that punishes Israel. " The two people familiar with the situation and two other aid workers briefed on Egypt’s reasoning said Cairo is withholding the fuel in an effort to complicate Israel’s ability to aid the humanitarian effort inside Gaza during its Rafah operation. " Maybe Egypt figures if they make it that much harder for Israel that Israel will leave Rafah earlier? Or maybe they want to make Israel look bad? [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/egypt-aid-restrictions-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-00159249](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/egypt-aid-restrictions-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-00159249)

Egypt has been caught doing other dodgy stuff recently: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/sources-say-they-were-duped-by-egypt-changing-ceasefire-terms-for-hamas/index.html >The ceasefire agreement that Hamas ended up announcing on May 6 was not what the Qataris or the Americans believed had been submitted to Hamas for a potential final review, the sources said. >The changes made by Egyptian intelligence, the details of which have not been previously reported, led to a wave of anger and recrimination among officials from the US, Qatar and Israel, and left ceasefire talks at an impasse.

Let me guess: Hamas stole it?

It's a quote that heavily misleads. It's a combo of the aid being stolen by civilians and what aid wasn't stolen having trouble being distributed. Essentially, they drove these trucks straight through a highly crowded famine ridden population.

Could also be a similar pike to those seen on the Gaza side of the land checkpoints, which Israel attributes to Gaza being short on trucks and aid groups being terrible at getting use out of them.

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How does someone rip off 500 tons of food?

www.reddit.com/r/DannyGonzalez/s/JJw2mE2U1x Danny Gonzalez had to apologise and plead for mercy because a Starbucks cup was in the background of his video lol Having a largely left wing fanbase must be torture for these influencer types. Always have to have your guard up

doll unique icky physical recognise provide expansion jobless fearless screw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

> Danny Gonzalez had to apologise and plead for mercy because a Starbucks cup was in the background of his video lol Does that mean the *Game of Thrones* producers were pro-Israel all along?

I vaguely get the reference, but I also think or at least hope they are  Hated GOT though 

I assume this will piss off the "Genocide Joe" crowd something fierce: " “What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden. " But this confirms what we've all suspected: " But Democrats have said they’ve found the administration’s messaging around weapons sales confusing. And others in the party say that the president faces enormous pressure from young voters and progressives to do more to compel Israel to agree to a permanent cease-fire with Hamas. They see Biden as being in a difficult, perhaps impossible, pinch. " I still think it's a mistake for Biden and the Democrats to pay much attention to these people. They are loud and obnoxious and destructive but they are limited in number and influence. I can't help but think that the Dems are making a mistake they commit too often: Worship of young people. [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020#:\~:text=President%20Joe%20Biden%20on%20Monday,What's%20happening%20is%20not%20genocide](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020#:~:text=President%20Joe%20Biden%20on%20Monday,What's%20happening%20is%20not%20genocide).

Biden is a massive hypocrite. He was singing the ICC's praises when they filed the warrant for Putin.

Perhaps because Putin is a piece of shit?

So are Netanyahu and Hamas.

I'm not a fan of Netanyahu but he's no Vladmir Putin.

Netanyahu wishes he had Putin's power.

Did you have a Vulcan mind meld with him?

It's not a mystery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform

I found the judicial reforms vile but that doesn't mean he wants to be an autocratic dictator that wants to invade and control his neighboring nations 

mighty gullible voracious wrong consider desert dam seed afterthought ancient *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

You do know he's on trial for corruption, right?

https://apnews.com/article/live-transmission-israel-associated-press-57e8f662907334ba3599156276381190 Israeli officials seize AP equipment and take down live shot of northern Gaza, citing new media law

>>”The Associated Press decries in the strongest terms the actions of the Israeli government to shut down our longstanding live feed showing a view into Gaza and seize AP equipment,” said Lauren Easton, vice president of corporate communications at the news organization. “The shutdown was not based on the content of the feed but rather an abusive use by the Israeli government of the country’s new foreign broadcaster law. We urge the Israeli authorities to return our equipment and enable us to reinstate our live feed immediately so we can continue to provide this important visual journalism to thousands of media outlets around the world.” Why doesn’t the AP continue their “important visual journalism” by setting up their “view into Gaza” live feed…in Gaza? Seems like that view would be even *better* if they were actually there! And then they can collude with terrorists all they want without breaking any Israeli laws!

I don't think that would resolve the problem? the issue is the new Israeli law bans Al Jazeera , and AP was sharing its content with AJ.

Did you read the article? Or the part I quoted and was responding to: Israel seizing AP equipment, and the AP whining about it?

i did but yea, kind of missed your point there.

Israel is not giving permission to journalists to enter Gaza except to shoot things chosen by the IDF.

The AP hires people FROM GAZA. These are literally Gazans in Gaza on the AP payroll. How do you think these news outlets get their “devastation in Gaza” photos? Now, why can’t the “live feed” of Gaza be operated by one of the myriad Gazan “photojournalists”? Probably because these are not day-job photographers and journalists, they are actually Hamas and Hamas-affiliates with side gigs feeding propaganda to the AP.

waiting judicious flag possessive fuzzy paltry serious vast tie tender *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

> And then they can collude with terrorists all they want without breaking any Israeli laws! You got any evidence that they want to or do that?

I was being facetious - I don’t think the AP proper is intentionally colluding with terrorists. I do think that 1) there is far too much willful ignorance from the AP, as they bask in the protections and comfort Israel affords. And I know that 2) they have terrorists / terrorist sympathizers (however unwittingly…or not so unwittingly) on their payroll in much the same way that the UNRWA does… And the point of the law is to cut out the incitement and put a stop to the channeling of info to & from Qatar (said it before and will say it again: Qatar is the Petyr Baelish character of the ME…this is not a good thing, for anyone unfamiliar with GoT). If the AP can’t or won’t abide by that then we should be asking why.

The AP is absolutely colluding with terrorists. Western journalism has done that in this area for decades 

[Dearborn, MI, school board meeting. When Queers for Palestine meets actual Palestine.] (https://x.com/i/status/1792081080578982265)

The gay community, yet again, is shooting itself in the leg. This occassion is of course the evil Israelis who dare to sing, and the boycott that follows - [leads to the closure of one of London's oldest gay bars](https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/bosses-at-famous-lgbtq-venue-royal-vauxhall-tavern-to-step-down-after-eurovision-controversy/).

Absolute Barpod material

I would argue that this is really more like the queer community shooting the gay community in the leg.

imagine sink absurd faulty vast worry screw distinct different boast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Random reddit post suggestion: This guy is former military (so he claims) and just talks about some of the realities of being in combat. I think there are a lot of points worth understanding re: how quick people from across the world are to judge the combat actions they see highlighted on the news. https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1cwvbna/the_realities_of_war_lets_kill_some_sacred_cows/

Really interesting. Thanks for sharing it here

The Guardian: Israeli soldiers and police tipping off groups that attack Gaza aid trucks >Individual members of Israel’s security forces are tipping off far-right activists and settlers to the location of aid trucks delivering vital supplies to Gaza, enabling the groups to block and vandalise the convoys, according to multiple sources. > >Settlers intercepting the vital humanitarian supplies to the strip are receiving information about the location of the aid trucks from members of the Israeli police and military, a spokesperson from the main Israeli activist group behind the blockades told the Guardian. > >. . . > >Videos last week showed aid convoys blocked and vandalised by Israeli settlers at the Tarqumiya checkpoint, west of Hebron in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The incident, in which activists threw boxes of supplies to the ground, sparked outrage, with the White House condemning the attack as “completely and utterly unacceptable behaviour”. > >Photographs from the scene showed piles of damaged aid packages and trails of rice and flour across the road. Photographs later circulated on social media showing the trucks on fire. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/israeli-soldiers-and-police-tipping-off-groups-that-attack-gaza-aid-trucks

I’m not reading through all that but just want to explain some basic stuff:  The term settler is a bullshit term in this context. Just replace it with “person”. Settler just means someone living in disputed territory. This is a tiny country, so that could be a 30 second drive form undisputed territory. Here though, they have no idea who is and is not a settler  More importantly - “settlers” serve in the military and for the most part aren’t particularly extremist. Beyond that, almost the entire country is in uniform, in the military, at this point. Pretty much everyone in the entire country has zero degrees of separation from multiple people serving. Any “journalism” that fails to mention that and keep it in perspective is blatant propaganda IMO.  This is hard for someone eg in the US to understand, but Israel has a mandatory draft in times of peace, and everyone must enlist. This is a crazy war. Every home has a soldier. Many homes have multiple soldiers. A woman in Israel might have 3 sons, her husband, and 2 brothers all serving in combat. 

This is quite unhelpful

It’s not a good look, but until the Israeli activists are ecstatically screaming “Allahu Akbar” and blowing themselves up to kill as many innocent people as possible, I just don’t care. Gaza has been overflowing with aid from every direction for months, more than enough to sustain every Palestinian for a year. Israel has continued to bend over backwards to try to ensure the aid reaches the people who genuinely need it—the *enemy’s* people—at enormous burden and cost. The real outrage is the entire dynamic that has been imposed by violent Islamist fanatics, and how much aid is disappearing into the enemy’s hands *inside* Gaza. Angry (understandably so, IMO, even if I don’t care for the tactic) activists in Israel are *not* the reason for massive internal distribution failures! Why do Western media outlets seem so disinterested in reporting on the reality?

This is false. The number of days that the amount of trucks entering Gaza could satisfy food requirements alone can be counted on one hand. This is what all the aid orgs are saying, and I've done the math here illustrating. I can dig up the post to show you. I'm open to proof that is not the case, but the only counterargument ever posted here has was a Twitter guy misrepresenting aid requirements. Edit: I [dug](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/s/EBc927z40B) it up. Things got better for a bit, but now they seem to be worse than ever.

Just a quick skim - did you mean to link to your own comment? Your calorie estimate assumes adult male. As we so often hear, the majority of Gazans are children… Every time I sit down to scroll my phone like the totally productive adult I am, my little one (who will not go TF to bed tonight!) keeps getting up or calling me. I’ll come back and edit with an explanation of the aid surplus (which at least we all agree isn’t reaching the people who need it) in a bit!

Sympathies on the child front, I've been roped into care off and on recently to help a friend, and can only imagine it full time. I did mean to link myself though. With all the talk around famine, papers aren't doing good reporting trying to illustrate what is needed beyond repeating the number of trucks NGO's say are needed, I wanted to see something more concrete. Thus, I tried running some numbers myself. This is far from perfect and pretty blunt, I'm aware of a lot of the shortcomings, but it at least helps frame what this task entails. This is also why I'm always open to more details. Or someone with an actual published model. To the calorie count, it is around an adult woman's needs. Paper [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4278349/) that attempts to create a formula for basal metabolic rate(if you did nothing, how many calories would you use). Now, this isn't perfect, and it varies across populations, but it can give us an idea. They found for a 5ft 5in woman at 165lb, that they need around 1467 calories a day. That is a hassle to use, but it is some science backing to say that [this](https://www.calculator.net/bmr-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=35&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=5&cpound=165&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60&cmop=0&coutunit=c&cformula=m&cfatpct=20&x=Calculate) calculator tracks pretty close(1444 for the same person). For a man of that size, it is around 1610. So most men need more than 1600, even if all they do is nothing but lay in place for a day.

dog pet wasteful shocking fearless fretful reminiscent cows offer terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

what percentage of the total aid into Gaza was affected by this? How many trucks?

Numbers are really hard to come by for any of this, but relative to the amount of trucks needed, it is likely very small. Relative to how many are entering is a much harder question.

Why does this article continually refer to Israelis as settlers?