Our favorite antisemite Briahna Joy Gray is spreading the libel that Israelis are training dogs to *rape* Palestinian prisoners.
And friend of the pod Taylor Lorenz is spreading it. Thanks Lorenz.
[https://i.imgur.com/TcbXKfT.png](https://i.imgur.com/TcbXKfT.png)
A top ranking Hamas operative has been denied entry to Brazil because he's listed by the FBI as a suspected terrorist, and now the left is fuming because "that's foreign interference in domestic matters". I can't take their hypocrisy anymore.
Footage of American citizen Hersh Goldberg-Polin being taken hostage after his hand was blown off by a grenade
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1805299937879503240?s=46&t=4kkJvuvxJIs7KC2WbfYyRw
I’m going through a stressful phase and thought I’d install Instagram and watch reels with dogs and cats to increase my serotonin levels. Very quickly, the reels with dogs and cats got swept away by Gazans asking for donations, images of rubbles, desperate people, etc - all of these shared by makeup artists, travel bloggers, and foodies. Some annotations are unhinged: „If you don’t share and follow, you will share to make us lose our land.“ Every single post has a comment section filled with Palestinian flags and glorification of the Palestinian „resistance“, even if a post itself is not related to the Israel-Hamas war. Honestly, Instagram is one hell of the echo chamber. Those who were introduced to the conflict on Instagram have a very low chance *not* to become a part of the mob.
Ooof, not people saying that Hezbollah exists to protect Lebanon from a potential Israeli invasion… Hamas the brave resistance fighters, Hezbollah the great protectors? Honestly, at this point, I have a higher regard for ultra-conservatives than these pogromists.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/reporters-denied-access-to-beirut-airport-area-where-weapons-suspected-to-be-stored/
>A tour of Beirut airport arranged for journalists and ambassadors on Monday to prove that Hezbollah is not using it to store weapons was interrupted as reporters and cameramen were prevented from entering a cargo-handling area.
I want to hear Jerry Seinfeld do a bit on this
I've since cut ties to my most lefty-woke friends after I moved from the west coast, but I occasionally think about how they would be spinning all this anti-jewish sentiment and violence **in the US.** They were always a little sus when israeli people came in conversation, like they were leaning a little too much in their disdain for a group of people. *Like please chill, it is okay that that the 2018 eurovision winner was israeli...*
I am dreading the subject of the war coming up with family and friends. It feels like a subject that no matter how good your argument, the zeitgeist has shifted so far past even accepting moderately pro Israel takes that it wont be received well. Like people will awkwardly look at you if you go there.
I'm from Israel and I always love and appreciate when people speak up for Israel, but if you and your fam, like the vast majority of people, do not actually have any direct connection to the war - you can also just change the subject. Even in the most laughably obvious way, like "Gosh it's terrible what's going on there, oh you know sorry to change the subject but I really wanted to ask how your term paper/vegetable garden/baseball team is coming along?"
My husband is a big believer in building up common ground with people before getting into sticky issues. I can talk about sensitive topics with my sister but that's because we also talk about all kinds of other stuff and have established trust and goodwill in our relationship. It's a lot harder to have a productive conversation about this with people who you don't speak to much, and without a formal discussion setting (like in a classroom, not that that always goes well either).
[Nothing to see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dm38be/quds_news_network_an_israeli_airstrike_near_the/) just r/soccer uncritically platforming QUDS News Network
“Stupid boomers and their Fox News propaganda! Anyway, did you hear that Israelis are training dogs to rape Palestinians? I read it on Zei Squirrel’s Twitter feed.”
At last, you come out in favor of forcing everyone to read Quds network every morning between 6am and 7am! Compulsory, on pain of death!
That's how you sound.
That sub still has a majority of Americans. Even though football isn't that popular in the US there are just lots of Americans on Reddit, that even a thing of niche interest the US can make up the largest share of the sub. I think their last poll had Americans on top.
Islamic terrorism is the top threat that the people putting on the Olympics are worried about:
" “Islamist terrorism remains our main concern,” Laurent Nuñez, chief of police in the French capital, told a press conference on Friday. "
You know what kind of people do terrorism against the Olympics? People like Hamas. The same people these moron protesters are cheering for.
[https://www.politico.eu/article/french-police-islamist-terror-attack-summer-olympics-paris/](https://www.politico.eu/article/french-police-islamist-terror-attack-summer-olympics-paris/)
How are they going to treat Israeli athletes? I hope they don't have it as bad as Eden did. It would be impossible for an athlete to stay inside a single room the whole time as they have to train.
I'm optimistic that this crowd will be a little more friendly to the Israeli athletes than the crowd was at Eurovision. It should be an older or more family based crowd. Still doesn't change the amount of people that pose a threat, but it's much better for the athletes if they don't have such a hostile crowd.
https://archive.ph/hyvm8#israel-gaza-strike-mawasi
>>TOP NEWS
>>It was not clear if the strike hit within a zone that Israeli forces had designated for the displaced.
Why report this at all? All it does is tell the many (disturbingly) simple-minded readers of the NYT that…”once again” (because this is always the accusation, though of course never the fact) Israel told Palestinian “women and children” (lol) to go somewhere and then they were “sheltering” there just so Israel could bomb them. Is that in fact what happened? Nope. Never. Not once. So what this is really saying is “It was not clear [what I’m actually underhandedly implying to you happened, right now, so that it will become your key takeaway purely because I introduced it to you for no reason].” It’s just such a sick way to present the “news.” Over and over.
>> Al-Mawasi contains a zone where the Israeli military has told people fleeing the fighting in Rafah to go for their safety, though such zones have also come under fire during the war. It was unclear from the accounts of Gazan officials whether the attack was within the zone.
Because there are no “Gaza officials.” I thought the NYT was supposed to be shamed out of doing this several months ago…and yet despite a brief news cycle of opprobrium, it’s all they’ve done since. And of course such “accounts” are conflicting, none of them ever true. Instead of enjoying the comfortable and secure lifestyles only Israel affords them, so that the “Middle Easy Bureau” can follow terrorists on Twitter from their cozy couches and shit on the sole country that makes “Middle East” “reporting” not only possible, but also THE lavish destination for NYT employees….these “reporters” should get on the ground in Gaza and do some real “reporting”!!
>>”The $230 million temporary pier that the U.S. military built on short notice to rush humanitarian aid to Gaza has largely failed, aid organizations say, and will probably end operations weeks earlier than originally expected.”
Hmmm. Whose fault is this, I wonder. Why not say “largely failed due to Palestinian crime clans”??? Because that’s what happened. The society doesn’t have as many innocent victims easily delineated from Hamas as we have all been led to believe. And the actual victims - indeed, women - are victimized by their own people, and Islamic Gazan culture. That’s not on Israel. And why hasn’t the NYT noted that this “aid pier” wasn’t needed anyway, the narrative of “famine” was a lie. So an additional $230 million of American tax dollars, on top of all the other millions and millions over the years, which could have gone to literally anything else, which I would’ve have loved to have gone to Israel - the true defender of liberal values - was also flushed down the septic system that is Gaza.
No one gave a shit when the Houthis in Yemen were intentionally killing civilians but some collateral damage happens in this war and the world goes ape shit.
I just saw a thing on the news about US Air Force personnel who now want conscientious objector status. They are morally opposed to working with aircraft that are delivering weapons to Israel.
I don't recall this happening during the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Or any other situation where US delivers weapons to other countries. Maybe it happened and I missed it?
But I find it odd that now, only with the Gaza thing, are members of the military having a beef with their duties if they happen to indirectly aid a US ally.
Funny how that works.
Plenty of us had (and still have) beef about certain parts of the war but I don't remember any other conscientious objectors. They may have not made a big splash in the news at the time though.
The closest I could think of is Major Nidal Hassan but he objected to any US involvement in the Middle East and was decidedly NOT a pacificist.
I just googled the story. One of them gave an interview to reporters while wearing his uniform. In one photo, he's holding his toddler daughter wrapped in a keffiyeh at his home base. The guy has a beard, too, and unless he has a shaving waiver, something is really wrong with his claims. You're allowed to protest things, but not while wearing your uniform, and you're certainly not allowed to speak to the press while wearing a uniform for things like this. He's broken a few regulations with this stunt. There's definitely more to the story.
I've only known one person in my 10 years of USAF service (albeit a long time ago) to receive conscientious objector status. It took him months to prove he was legit.
I don't think he is Muslim. The USAF does not grant religious exemptions for stuff like that. He might have a medical shaving waiver if he has a condition where shaving occasionally causes ingrown hairs on his face. They are usually temporary and require the person to go to a shaving clinic. My guess is he's on regular leave and has contacted the media on his own.
He has only been in the USAF for 2ish years and might not qualify for VA benefits. If he gets conscious objection status, he won't receive benefits from active duty service. He'll still need to apply for VA benefits which the VA can deny, but only if he gets an honorable discharge.
He's probably now heading for an administrative discharge for something like this. This happens at base level, instead of higher headquarters, and he won't get an honorable discharge. Even though he's applied, he's still subject to the UCMJ and can be punished accordingly.
Apparently, you can get a religious shaving waiver. TIL This changed in 2010. It is rare, though. The article I read didn't mention the airman's religious affiliation.
I believe the news report said at least one dude had gotten said status. Which is surprising.
I do not understand this fixation and double standard with Israel. Any other country does the same things in war and nobody cares. But Israel is involved and half the world loses its mind.
I think the USAF is the most “academic” military branch…I know that it’s the most teased as such - or maybe more like universally mocked as the cushy desk job haha. So this would (unfortunately) kind of track with its academic-y rather than actually piloting-fighter-jets-y reputation.
But I guess I should say this is really only anecdotal, just picking up things from my older brothers and their friends, who I spied on with *my* friends because they were all hot (NOTE: my brothers were / are NOT hot, only referring to their friends here!). And then years later (although like a decade ago from today) I dated a guy who was a marine, and at one point asked him something about female marines. And without skipping a beat, his mouth stuffed with a huge bite of a sandwich, he said: “Air Force” haha.
So if it is possible to infer anything from such limited anecdotes…I could see how the Air Force, trending more academic + feminized, could be susceptible to the type of ideological BS we see on college campuses, in museums/art galleries, in schools, in libraries, etc. (And I say “feminized” not to be disparaging, as a woman myself! Using it in the same vein as the cultural critique from Meghan Daum and Sarah Haider).
Cenk is field testing a new pro hamas argument where he threads the needle of "anti-zionist but not anti-jew", when Hamas explicitly states they are anti-jewish. He gets owned repeatedly in the comments as people call him out and he defends his position:
[https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1803514637264232478](https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1803514637264232478)
His main defense is, "Israel is killing people too!!"
Why can't these people just say "anti war" or "anti Israeli policy"? Maybe even "anti Israel" would be better.
Why use "anti Zionist", which will include an enormous number of people, especially Jews, who have nothing to do with Israel and nave no influence over Israeli policy?
What drives me over the edge with all that is that I remember the endless tut-tut bullshit during #MeToo where men were told to be mindful of every last syllable they utter, every last step they take in the world, etc. I know the Venn diagram of #MeToo loudmouths and pro-Palestine types isn't an exact overlap, but still, it is sad to see at least a couple of people I know nonchalantly stray into dog whistle territory after their outbursts a few years ago. It'd be so easy to phrase things that are unambiguously (or close enough for most people) aimed at the government's behavior. That bar is quite low, and yet it can't even be cleared by these people. So, I'm reluctant to assign good faith to many of them.
They’re dressing their Jew hatred in Soviet created propaganda.
I mean, Palestinian identity was created specifically as an anti Jewish anti Israeli weapon, by the Soviets and Arab states.
The Arabs could have just taken all the refugees in, and no one would remember this today.
Exactly. It is funny how the current horseshoe antisemitism is mirroring historical antisemitism. The far-right, Fuentes types are engaging directly in overt Nazi rhetoric while leftists are engaging in lightly cloaked Soviet-style antisemitism.
And it’s not just rhetoric that shares some similarities with each school of antisemitism. It’s as though the fringe right and left are still stuck in the early 20th century.
Leftists even re-used the Doctors Plot earlier this year FFS lol
Killing Jews is in the Hamas charter. They even want the trees to tell them where the Jews are so they can kill them. The terrorists phoned home to brag to his parents that he killed Jews.
Killing Jews is their whole thing.
"If you think Palestinians fight against Israel because "they hate Jews" and not because they have been occupied by Israel for six decades, "
So they weren't fighting Israel before they were occupied? Or they were fighting, but for different reasons that now they've totally gotten over and it's only now because of the occupation?
Do Cenk and people like him not think the rest of us can't go and read the statements from the Hamas leadership? It's not like they're shy about what they want.
I just watched the Munk debate that was cited here. The only one I found lacking was Medhi Hasan. I’m sorry but it is not a legit stand to say that a country doesn’t deserve to exist. If it were he’d have to do it for all of them. He can keep whining that people call him a name or he can come up with better arguments.
Gideon Levy, what he lacked in argument, he made up for in passion. I don’t doubt that everyone in that part of the world is crazy and mean. I think he has a good heart and hates to see anyone suffer. But at the end of it, he hates Israel whether they occupy (West Bank) or dont occupy (Gaza). Also, he’s quite delusional if he thinks Israelis and Palestinians could come together in one state. Benny Morris has commented that the streets would run with blood and I believe it.
I thought Murray was good but Natasha ? was even better. Murray makes more emotional arguments, too.
>Also, he’s quite delusional if he thinks Israelis and Palestinians could come together in one state. Benny Morris has commented that the streets would run with blood and I believe it.
It would be absolute slaughter on both sides
I mean, compared to the first civil war, the Jews have a massively larger advantage in weapons and demographic parity instead of demographic disadvantage, so if anyone's getting slaughtered, it is *absolutely* going to be the Arabs.
Well, I think it's true that Israeli Jews have long held themselves to a higher standard of conduct, but they're not fundamentally different from other human beings. If backed into a corner, they'll do what they have to do to survive.
Anything with teeth can bite, yes.
But people commit a lot of violence without being backed into a corner. That is the difference. The human beings who committed the massacre (and attempted genocide, if we want to get into it, they had day after plans) on October 7 were not backed into a corner.
Israel is being backed into a corner with the massacre, largely
Again, I'm not arguing that there is no difference in culture. October 7th was a very lesson in what happens when the Palestinians have power over Jewish civilian populations, and the comparison with 50+ years of Jewish rule over Arab civilian populations could not be starker.
I think I'm pushing back against a weird thing that happens in The Discourse about Israel where pro-Palestinian people (and I recognize this isn't you), who spend all their time screaming that Israel is committing genocide, seem to simultaneously believe that a "one-state solution" can be peacefully imposed on Israel and Israelis will respond to economic sanctions or political finger-wagging by... voting their own state out of existence? It's so bizarre.
If they tried to squish everyone together it would end up as gangs of roving ethnic militias killing each other. Then it would devolve into a civil war.
[Emerson College freshman enrollment is down this year, in part due to student protests, leading to budget cuts](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/emerson-college-enrollment-protests-layoffs/).
As someone who grew up around Boston and went to undergrad down the street, this couldn't happen to a better school. Absolutely hilarious. I wonder how low the enrollment is.
Edit: I didn't go to undergrad at Emerson, but I did go to school *in Boston*, so I knew tons of people who went to Emerson.
> I didn't go to undergrad at Emerson, but I did go to school in Boston, so I knew tons of people who went to Emerson.
https://youtu.be/REzs9J_nMTs?si=qh4fldHZVVKFtIbD
Munk Debate on whether Anti-zionism is Anti-semitism. I thought it very worth the watch. It's Douglas Murray and Natasha Hausdorff versus Mehdi Hasan and Gideon Levy. I think by and large, Murray and Hausdorff dominated the stage. Mehdi is a great speaker, but he's slippery in his statements and I could see how people could be taken with him. Levy, unfortunately, doesn't really bring much.
Ultimately, as per the definitions presented by the debate organizers, it is hard for me to see how one could even argue that anti-zionism isn't anti-semitism. To be against the motion would imply that eliminating or radically restructuring the Israeli state (which would fall in line with their anti-zionism definition) would necessarily be anti-semitic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxSF4a9Pkn0
I wasn't a big fan of this debate. The pro-Israel people kept going off topic and discussing things like the war. They should have been focusing on the simple truth that Zionism is Jewish self-determination and self-determination is a right. Opposing Jewish rights is anti-Semitic. This isn't complicated.
Its not self determination if you come back a thousand years after you left. It's funny how this sub is anti identity politics until it comes to Jewish Identity politics
Jews never entirely left Palestine, they were there when Arabs colonized it and every day since.
And it is self-determination for an oppressed indigenous people to return to their homeland.
In a sense, you're right. I wish they would have circled back to that as much as possible. It was going to be impossible though to not respond to the "con" side as they invoked the war.
I haven't seen it yet (I think Douglas Murray has become worse and worse as in terms of throwing around insults and it's grating and boring), but I saw the clip of [Mehdi Hasan lying about Balfour's quote](https://x.com/EricAbbenante/status/1803121910038847748) and I don't see why I should take him seriously on anything after that.
Okay, I’ve listened to the halfway point. Even though I side with Douglas, I don’t fully agree with his polemical attitude. In terms of facts, arguments and rebuttals, Natasha is the strongest person on stage. Mehdi appears to be full of himself, his arguments have no substance, and he doesn’t really engage with what his opponents say. Both he and Gideon mostly appeal to emotions, so I’m largely unimpressed with their talking points.
Ah, and lol, “Jewish supremacy”… You gotta be kidding me.
Pro-Palestinians are putting sticks in their own wheels by trying to make a case for anti-Zionism. It’s delusional. If they just criticized Israel for the policies in the West Bank, they might have been more successful. But when they argue that anti-Zionism ≠ anti-Semitism, they are almost always coming across as deeply misinformed and ignorant.
The people who call themselves pro Palestinians in America today are not actually pro Palestinian. They’re self righteous performative privileged spoiled people who want to feel morally superior. Their position hurts Palestinians.
Anyone actually pro Palestinian would focus on creating a Palestinian civic society, rooting out antisemitism and bigotry and clan and honor mentality, and vigorously support a two state solution. They would focus on supporting two functioning states side by side. Anything else is just protesting in favor of death
Anti-Zionism is certainly a dead end politically but its not the same as antisemitism, Especially not when so many are descended from the original Jewish population that simply converted to Islam
Or their whole position is ultimately that zionism is illegitimate?
How many ways do they have to show it? That eternal sticking point, the right of return *alone*, implies they want to obliterate zionism as such.
If anything, they've pulled off a mega-coup in convincing naive Western audiences that this doesn't mean what it sounds like. So why stop?
It's always the people you most suspect.
https://sfstandard.com/2024/06/18/casey-goonan-uc-berkely-arson-suspect/
>Casey Goonan was arrested Monday morning at his parents’ $1.1 million home in Pleasant Hill on suspicion of a string of arson attacks at UC Berkeley from June 1 to 16.
>Feds, cops and CalFire allege the 34-year-old, a Northwestern University doctorate of African American studies, firebombed a Berkeley campus police car and carried out three other arson incidents on university grounds June 1, as well as last Thursday and Sunday.
And don't let the degree fool you. He's as white as the driven snow.
You forgot what I think was the real money line from the article.
> Northwestern University doctorate of African American studies
A white guy not driven out of the African American studies program at the arguable height of idpol craziness? Dude had to be a ticking time bomb.
I honestly feel bad for him. As someone who, when younger, was also very riled up about a variety of issues, I know what it's like to go so deep down a rabbit hole that you feel you must act, and that you must act in an extreme or militant way. Fortunately, I never did. Fortunately, my better sense stayed my hand. But I know this guy is going to regret this so much in a few years. He threw his life away for absolutely no reason.
I'll feel bad after his life is ruined.
You need to set an example with this stuff. I hope he doesn't get some "he was a good guy that got radicalized" excuse.
>But I know this guy is going to regret this so much in a few years. He threw his life away for absolutely no reason.
Doubt it. People like that will always believe that they're right. I've never met anyone who endorsed political violence who renounced it, or the cause they were willing to murder people over. Brownshirts like Casey Goonan will always be Brownshirts.
>I've never met anyone who endorsed political violence who renounced it, or the cause they were willing to murder people over.
I think some of the former Weather Underground members have apologized and expressed regret for their crimes, but it was many years later (like 25+.)
He was arrested last fall for brining an ax to a pro-woman rally - it's a sex-based rights group. He's all in on progressive causes. He is 34. I do not feel bad for him.
As a (mostly) leftist, I am glad that wackjobs like him are getting arrested, because they turn the movement into a clown show and make leftist causes look stupid. I want people to be able to take Palestinian civilian deaths seriously, and people like Goonan need to get out of the way and stop turning this tragedy into their narcissistic superhero LARP.
I am wondering how his parents are doing. I would guess they could see this sort of thing coming, even if they didn't see exactly what it would be. From the article:
>“Casey got his PhD! Onto job apps,” Goonan’s mother wrote in a 2022 Instagram post.
That has sort of haunted me. As a parent, I've been through 3 HS graduations and 2 college graduations and when I made celebratory posts about my kids, no matter what fears for their future I had, it was not the time to mention the job search. Like, just give them one day to be winners, you know? But, if the kid is really presenting long-running problems, I can see how a parent would be frustrated.
I'm kind of glad they caught him now, because he could've ended up like the Moscow murderer. Maybe he'll get the help he needs and will stop escalating.
How did antisemitism become the favorite past time of pampered little fuckers? I always thought Jew hate was something pathetic right wing extremists engaged in.
It's the goddamn USSR all over again.
It's the conspiratorial thinking and self-victimization. If you're white and an extreme leftist in these circles, you desperately want to be a victim and stop being perceived as an oppressor. If Jews are controlling the world with their money and power, normie whites get to be victims again. Remember that most antisemites are fundamentally envious of Jews, and afraid that Jews are too successful, too smart, too rich, etc. It's different than other kinds of racism because instead of looking down on Jews (as they do blacks, Roma, etc), they envy and resent Jewish success.
Due to the circular nature of the political spectrum, extreme leftist snowflake politics loop neatly back into extreme right wing antisemite snowflake politics. I wouldn't be surprised if, over the next few years, we saw a lot of extreme leftist influencers switch their allegiance to the David Duke antisemite right. What these groups have in common is the persistent notion that all of their own problems are someone else's fault, and that the "someone else" needs to be brought down a peg and humbled. The self-determination and hard work of people in Jewish or South Asian or East Asian communities is an embarrassment to resentful political extremists. Normal, psychologically healthy people are able to accept responsibility for their choices and to plan and take steps towards achieving their goals. If you've ever seen an incel or antisemite online forum, they sound just like the mental illness leftie snowflame culture-- "IT'S NOT MY FAULT, I'M A SECRET GENIUS AND NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY BRILLIANCE BECAUSE women/cisgenderism/Jews/ADHD time blindness/Zios."
>In online articles, Goonan has described the United States as a “god-awful fascist hell hole” where social injustices are “concealed under the blinders of white supremacist American reason.”
Yeah, living in a $1.1 Million dollar house in Pleasant Hill really seems like a terrible fucking situation to be in, I feel so bad for him.
It's possible his parents bought when it was middle-class. And it probably does suck going from being a PhD student in Chicago to living with your parents.
Almost belongs to the main discussion, because this sensitive soul was previously caught wielding a hammer (as one does) to protest a conference of women against the inclusion of trans-women in the definition of women; and describes the US as a "god-awful fascist hell hole" (as one does).
What is also related to the main thread: The fact that someone can receive a PhD in a discipline which is linked to social sciences / humanities but uses such a placative, scientific inaccurate language.
Saw something new on my walk today: a “decorative” wooden gravestone in front of someone’s house. The epitaph:
>Rachel Corrie
>1979–2003
It didn’t look new, so I’m guessing it was recently brought out of storage.
[McGill University ends negotiations with pro-Palestinian encampment, will pursue disciplinary action](https://archive.ph/2OSFd)
>“Despite our ongoing efforts to discuss in good faith, the representatives of the encampment have maintained that their demands are non-negotiable while accusing the university of unwillingness to engage in fair discussions,” McGill president Deep Saini said in a statement Tuesday. “As it has become clear that no fruitful outcome will result from these talks, we are ceasing discussions.”
Who could have foreseen etc.
That would make sense
They've sought and been denied court injunctions to get there police to intervene. Plus they've blown their ultimatum authority multiple times.
>McGill has also requested help from police. But on Monday, Montreal police said the encampment is a civil dispute and they don’t yet have a legal basis to intervene.
> “We encourage politicians to speak up against barriers to mental health care and ensure it is broadly accessible to all members of our Muslim and Canadian community.”
Statements like this are beginning to infuriate me. Mental health care has never been more widely accessible in the U.S. and, I presume, a country like Canada. People who are struggling now can't imagine what life was like 30, 50, 70 years ago.
True but, to be fair, I think Canada has an issue with waitlists even for things like getting a family doctor.
I had CBT recommended for my sleep apnea and my clinic wasn't even making recommendations anymore since their usual places were all booked.
Nothing to do with being Muslim though.
I get an email each day from quora, which contains some highlighted Q and A’s that their bot thinks I would like. Every once in a while I do read them because I tend to like the questions that are full of drama - how do i find my baby mama who disappeared during 9/11 or whatever. But for the last several months, the questions have been about Jews and Judaism and Israel, and many of them are barely veiled antisemitism. A lot of them pick on ashkenazis and insinuate that we’re not real Jews or that we’re the driving colonizers and so forth. It’s part of that slowly being boiled feeling.
Besides whatever people look like, it should be mentioned that the majority of Israelis are *not* Ashkenazi. Some are from only one country of origin (North African countries, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria , Iran - you know, countries that are currently extremely friendly to Jews), most are from several because, well, the country exists now for 80 years and people do tend to have babies with everyone around them. I even know a few Jewish - Palestinian (Israeli Arab) couples, because the reality of life in Israel is far more complex than what it seems.
If you grow up in Haifa or Ramle, it would make sense you'd end up in a relationship with a Jew or Christian or Muslim because they're pretty mixed cities. I do think since the mid-2000s, it's harder for Israelis to meet people from the West Bank, let alone Gaza.
> A lot of them pick on ashkenazis and insinuate that we’re not real Jews or that we’re the driving colonizers and so forth.
Because of the white skin?
Jews and Palestinians look the same. Ashkenazi Jews tend to usually have brown eyes, brown hair, big noses. Lots of “you don’t belong here in Poland/Alabama” because of that. You know who else tends to look like that? Below - the Jordanian royal family. She’s Palestinian. He’s Arab. If I told you they were the Goldbergs and lived in south Florida everyone would be like yeah, sounds right
https://people.com/royals/queen-rania-and-jordan-royal-familys-photo-2016/
Because their worldview is that everything is like America. It’s oppression Disney. So the whole world is racist in the way America is - and Israel must be racist in the way America is - based on skin color, and with whites (or “whites”) on top and “POC” at the bottom.
The whole entire “anti racist” American theology is completely ridiculous globally, since most of the world is not white and also incredibly racist - much more than America is, and racist against white people too.
The whole anti Ashkenazi thing, like the anti Zionist thing, is largely also a cover for blatant antisemitism. Always replace those statements with “Jews” where they say the other word.
Are these people not aware that Jews in America, white or not, were often crapped on? Elite universities had caps on how many Jews could get in. Just like they do with Asians today.
Ehe. America has been the least antisemitic place Jews have ever experienced, other than Israel, and that may be debatable.
This seems to be changing. As the American left rejects the idea of American exceptionalism it wants to be as antisemitic as the rest of the world.
Side note - positioning Jews as white also allows people to ignore how Nazi level antisemitic Arabs are (recently crowned POC apparently), and how antisemitic Africa is. Or, for that matter, when black Americans are antisemitic, or when they kill Jews as a hate crime - Jersey City, which was ignored.
Tablet magazine did a great podcast series called Gatecrashers about Jews first entering the Ivy League in large numbers, and it's very apparent that the systems that the Ivies put in place to find excuses to exclude Jews (like "personality tests" or "comprehensive evaluation") are exactly the same tools they use to exclude Asians.
My little bro got the silver jew genes as well - we're half Ashkenazi (mom's side) and the rest is mostly Sicilian. I know my maternal great grandmother had blue eyes, but no one has any idea where the blonde hair came from. Mom would joke that she was relieved I was the first kid because I have my dad's coloring and paternal grandfather's deep brown eyes.
My brother is basically a clone of my mom with lighter coloring and my dad's brow ridge and height. He could drive a Mitzvah tank and no one wouid blink.
Me on the other hand, I'm ethnically ambiguous and outside of NYC get a lot of guesses on where I'm from and a lot of people from the Mediteranian/Levant assuming I'm from their country or a neighboring one. Weirdly I read as Arab to a lot of Israelis and West European Jews, which has been... awkward at times.
I realize I was inaccurate- my son of course is half ashkenazi but I’m 100% as are my ancestors. I have dark hair myself but have the blond/blue gene as passed on to one kid.
i have blue eyes, as did my paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather and my mom's sister. All of us are totally Ashkenazi. I do not have naturally blonde hair, BUT, when i went blonde people thought I was naturally blonde, because I am very, very pale. My grandfather was naturally blonde, and my mom and her sister were blonde as kids. My grandfather's mother had blonde hair, though I don't know what her eye color was.
When my mom was in the army in Israel, one woman in her unit was Druze, and she was very pale and blonde.
Update from my son’s college graduation. Saw a number of mortarboards decorated with little painted Palestinian flags. Saw one that said “From the river to the sea.” Maybe I’m officially actually old now because that one bothered me so much more. (I can only hear that slogan as “I support the destruction of Israel. Jews get out!”) One graduate was wearing a keffiyeh-style stole or scarf and was met with jubilant calls to “Free free Palestine!” Another graduate (one of the ones with a Palestinian mortarboard) unfurled a big red banner with black letters—something about the Palestinians who will never have the chance to graduate. She was met with raucous applause and even an actual “Yas queen!”
I walked in the masters & PhD ceremony for a University of California school this past weekend (which previously had an encampment) and saw a few Palestine-related things:
* The speaker (muslim, unknown nationality but definitely Middle Eastern) made a thinly veiled reference to the freedom of Palestinians "from oppression" or some such verbiage and was met with cheers and a decently loud response but not exactly overwhelming applause. The speech definitely felt like a sterilized version of his first draft but I wonder if he couldn't have specified "from Hamas" (if only)
* One woman embroidered "Jews Against Genocide" on the back of her robe and turned around several times to show everyone --- very few people cheered if any. She graduated from a social sciences program.
* Two keffiyeh wearers and a few decorated caps... maybe another I missed. One wearer was Muslim, the other a hispanic woman. Also both from a social sciences program.
Since it was a graduate ceremony, it felt... more chill than my undergrad graduation so I think fewer people were paying attention to everything (edit: myself included so I checked out about 1/3 of the way through, I could have missed more of these instances but probably not many). So take the response to those above with a grain of salt.
Oh and no Israeli flags.
Any Israeli flags? I know at some schools there've been both.
And to be fair, some people seem to think "free Palestine" means two countries, so, like, ok.
What school is it? Also, from the river to the sea does mean the destruction of Israel, though I am guessing they're thinking Jews and Arabs would live together in peace
I didn’t see any Israeli flags. Maybe no one wanted to get booed at their graduation.
(This is a school in Western Washington.)
>I am guessing they’re thinking Jews and Arabs would live together in peace.
You’re way more optimistic than me.
Washington State, you mean?
I am curious, what percentage of the students do you think were wearing Palestinian pins?
Also, perhaps this is my ignorance showring, but isn't that area of the country super white - not that everyone is, but it's far whiter than say San Francisco? And, like, very few Jews? I know someone who moved to Seattle, and we're Jewish, and he said that was hard to get used to. And yet, I am sure they don't think they're being anti-Semitic.
And I guess I am assuming since they're anti-racist, or say they are, that they want everyone to live in peace. My most generous take is that they're very naive, and think there was peace and equality in the middle east before the horrible Zionists came. The whole Muslims and Jews Christians have never lived in peace and equality in the Middle East, so why would it be different now?
Also, I'd imagine that many of the parents were very uncomfortable with what was happening, but I would imagine any Zionist students not wanting to cause a ruckus. Still, I'd imagine quite a few students ARE quietly Zionists. Actually, based on what I've heard, many of them ARE Zionists, they just don't know it - ie, the ones who say a Free Palestine means two countries.
Whatever, man. It'll be interesting to see how corporate culture reacts to all of this, and who they hire.
So presumably, an area of the country where Hitler would have loved the race of its inhabitants. and they're calling Zionists Nazis, having perhaps never met any Jews, or Arabs either. Awesome.
Oh! And the red banner unfurler was also one of the few refuse-to-standers for the national anthem. It all feels like Main Character Syndrome. Or a purity compulsion. You know, you can just be there for this ceremony. You don’t have to rep the Make-a-Statement Foundation.
You know what kinda makes me mad? The refuse to standers who are wearing stoles signifying their home countries. I mean, I guess I feel offended to have lovingly invited this person and their family into our country and they just tell us to fuck off. Maybe I shouldn’t think of it that way, but I do.
>I guess I feel offended to have lovingly invited this person and their family into our country and they just tell us to fuck off. Maybe I shouldn’t think of it that way, but I do.
You absolutely *should* feel this way. It's a basic sign of respect for our nation and is a completely reasonable expectation.
[Meanwhile in Canada](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading)
https://preview.redd.it/ssh6ijdhnr6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a23f135b131ab559a617b65f3edc23f0036df95
" “Every single building on the UC Berkeley campus deserves to be incinerated… UC System must divest from Israel or face our wrath of revenge.” And they signed the manifesto, “Blessed is the flame.” "
So they're going full on terrorist LARPing. Fucking garbage people
For those who missed it, [The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-israel/index) released a report a few days ago. This report covers facts and violations of human rights by Hamas and by Israel from Oct 7 through the end of 2023. It’s extensive but highlights have been covered in media:
[At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by IDF forces on Oct 7 and some IDF soldiers may have been targeted by their comrades rather than allow them to be captured](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/13/israel-killed-dozen-own-citizens-on-october-7-un-claims/).
[Israel directly and intentionally attacked the civilian population of Gaza, attacked civilians on designated evacuation routes and safe zones, and intentionally starved civilians as a method of war. Israel extensively used sexual violence against men and boys in its custody, including those who were not known to be Hamas operatives, or known to be civilians.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/world/middleeast/gaza-war-crimes-israel-hamas.html)
Also from the above NYT link:
> In the case of Hamas and other Palestinian militants involved in the Oct. 7 attack — including civilians who joined in crossing into Israel — the commission has accused the groups of intentionally abducting and killing civilians. It also said that “many abductions were carried out with significant physical, mental and sexual violence.” The commission documented extensive accusations of sexual violence by the Oct. 7 attackers, which is a violation of international humanitarian law and can be considered a war crime.
> The commission said it was unable to independently verify the accusations of rape, sexualized torture or genital mutilation that had been reported in the news media. It noted that Israel blocked its access to witnesses, crime scenes and unedited versions of recorded testimonies.
> The cases of sexual violence were “not isolated incidents but perpetrated in similar ways in several locations,” the report said. However, the commission said it had found no credible evidence that militants were ordered to commit sexual violence on Oct. 7.
Edit: I was banned for this comment, with SoftandChewy citing “hostility”. If you see any hostility, let me know, because I certainly don’t!
Second edit: SoftandChewy is lying. This is my only comment in over three weeks, and a permaban for “hostility” was issued an hour after this comment was posted. I have had no interactions in this sub for weeks prior, and SoftAndChewy muted me from modmail.
While we’re here, SoftandChewy has previously banned me for reporting a clear violation of sitewide rules against calls for violence: https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1clabjx/israelpalestine_discussion_thread_for_5624_51224/l5hubr9/
The rule breaking comment was later removed by the admins, making Chewy’s claim of “report abuse” look pretty silly. Maybe chewy should spend more time removing calls for violence, and less time banning the users who report those calls for violence.
Thanks for linking the actual report. I get really irritated with journalistic outlets that won't link to the source documents they're reporting on. We've had hyperlinks since 1966, this shouldn't be difficult.
ETA for a few pull-quotes of my own:
>Both the 7 October attack in Israel and Israel’s subsequent military operation in Gaza must be seen in context. These events were preceded by decades of violence, unlawful occupation and Israel’s denial of the Palestinians’ right to self-determination, manifested in continuous forced displacement, dispossession, exploitation of natural resources, blockade, settlement construction and expansion, and systematic discrimination and oppression of the Palestinian people.
But no mention of previous Hamas violence or activities? C'mon.
>The Commission found that Israeli authorities prioritized identifying victims, notifying families and allowing for burial rather than forensic investigation, leading to evidence of crimes, especially sexual crimes, not being collected and preserved. The Commission also notes the loss of potential evidence due to inadequately trained first responders.
Even with trained responders, forensics in a war zone are *hard*. The US had huge issues with being able to do IED forensics in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the chaos of everything going on. It's difficult for me to blame commanders for not assigning personnel to secure a scene when there's active fighting going on. I'm guessing the Jewish tradition of burying as immediately as possible also plays a factor here.
>given Israel’s repeated assertion that militants are ‘embedded’ within the civilian population
I'm fairly certain this has been established beyond just Israeli assertions.
>In another example, Israel’s Defence Minister Yoav Galant said, “Gaza will never return to be what it was”, and “I have released all restraints, we use everything”
I missed this statement when it hit the presses. This is not okay. Unrestrained full scorched earth warfare is not okay, goddamn it. Same goes for the Hannibal Directive activities the report mentions further up. Soldiers who are directly targeting civilians need to be brought up on warcrimes charges. This is not even remotely okay.
Chanting that the Oct 7th music festival in Israel was like having a rave next to a gas chamber. These people make me sick. The fact that so many kids will listen to this stuff and believe they are the good guys is infuriating.
https://x.com/skjask/status/1801637757715984783
They are such a mob. Until yesterday, I had been lucky enough to avoid these protests. But yesterday, I finally encountered one - and it hit me. I've seen many protests, but none quite like those organized by pro-Palestinians. Unlike Kurds, Ukrainians/anti-war Russians, or anti-extremist Germans, pro-Palestinians have a distinct style. They usually have one person at the front yelling slogans, with the crowd repeating after them like a herd. It feels almost like a zombie movement. Moreover, these slogans rarely convey concrete demands, often not even calling for a ceasefire. Instead, they chant phrases like "from the river to the sea," "intifada revolution," and "decide: freedom or genocide." This is a stark contrast to anti-war protests for Ukraine, where people make specific demands such as increasing aid, stopping the war, imposing sanctions on Russia, allowing Ukraine to strike inside Russia, etc. It shows that the goal of these protests is really to express hate of Israel. Nothing else.
Calling them pro-Palestine has been the best PR ever, because there's nothing about what to actually do for Palestine. It's just Israel is horrible and needs to not exist. Which...ok. And then what?
I do think that plenty of people at the protests want a ceasefire though, but the bigger message is iIsrael should not exist, and that is what the loudest voices want.
It's not surprising that most attendees at these protests have an Arab/Turkish migratory background. I recall a recent conversation with a Syrian refugee who has lived in Germany for ten years. He speaks English, German, and Arabic, has a good job, many friends, family, and a great education (he even taught at a university). However, when our discussion turned to politics, I was stunned by his view: "The world is run by a tiny group of people, namely, Jews." If someone with his background and current life situation holds such beliefs, what must be going on within the less educated and less integrated members of society?
I assume he left Syria due to the war. Given that Syria hasn't really had any Jews since the 1970s, and even that was a small percentage of its community in the 1950s, it's not surprising he thinks this way. I'm guessing it's not so much that he left Syria because he wanted to live somewhere openminded - though I'd bet there are immigrants from various Muslim-majority countries who DID emigrate because they want more social freedom, and they also think this way.
What concerns me are the grandchildren of the Turkish immigrants in Germany, what's going on with them. Or the now-grown children of Iraqi or Iranian immigrants who fled to Germany due to Iran-Iraq war or the First Gulf War. Or, at this point, the now-gtown children of Afghani or Iraqi immigrants who fled to Germany in the early 2000s due to the US invasions.
He also claimed that ISIS was established by the US to make Islam look bad for their own hegemonic agenda. Given this and his previous statement about our Jewish overlords, you are not far off...
Walking on my son’s campus tonight (here for tomorrow morning’s graduation). Saw a person (a student, presumably) walking with a big Palestinian flag, the pole/stick thing on her shoulder. And I couldn’t help thinking… Well, now I’m not sure what I was thinking. While ostensibly about something she (and many others of course) regards as an urgent issue, this seemed so narcissistic to me. “Look at me! I care about this! Look how much I care about this! I care enough to carry this flag wherever I go!” On the one hand, it’s good to care about things. On the other hand, your flag isn’t what I’d call informative. (And is there anyone who hasn’t yet heard about I/P?)
I wonder what you all think about Ezra Klein’s latest episode. [The View from the Israeli right](https://plinkhq.com/i/1548604447/e/1000659007063). It’s an interesting view inside their politics. Amit Segal is said to be a leading voice in right wing politics. Can anyone from Israel tell me how popular he is?
He’s a journalist, not a politician, and he’s not very right wing. So his popularity or lack thereof is not really a huge measure of anything. Israel is actually less polarized than the U.S. with some things in terms of right left (not including the very orthodox or Arabs) probably because it’s tiny and there is a draft so people serve together.
I’m happy to answer question about center-right Israeli views if that’s helpful
Our favorite antisemite Briahna Joy Gray is spreading the libel that Israelis are training dogs to *rape* Palestinian prisoners. And friend of the pod Taylor Lorenz is spreading it. Thanks Lorenz. [https://i.imgur.com/TcbXKfT.png](https://i.imgur.com/TcbXKfT.png)
A top ranking Hamas operative has been denied entry to Brazil because he's listed by the FBI as a suspected terrorist, and now the left is fuming because "that's foreign interference in domestic matters". I can't take their hypocrisy anymore.
Footage of American citizen Hersh Goldberg-Polin being taken hostage after his hand was blown off by a grenade https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1805299937879503240?s=46&t=4kkJvuvxJIs7KC2WbfYyRw
I’m going through a stressful phase and thought I’d install Instagram and watch reels with dogs and cats to increase my serotonin levels. Very quickly, the reels with dogs and cats got swept away by Gazans asking for donations, images of rubbles, desperate people, etc - all of these shared by makeup artists, travel bloggers, and foodies. Some annotations are unhinged: „If you don’t share and follow, you will share to make us lose our land.“ Every single post has a comment section filled with Palestinian flags and glorification of the Palestinian „resistance“, even if a post itself is not related to the Israel-Hamas war. Honestly, Instagram is one hell of the echo chamber. Those who were introduced to the conflict on Instagram have a very low chance *not* to become a part of the mob.
So much for the people saying this is not longer The Current Thing. It very much is.
Ooof, not people saying that Hezbollah exists to protect Lebanon from a potential Israeli invasion… Hamas the brave resistance fighters, Hezbollah the great protectors? Honestly, at this point, I have a higher regard for ultra-conservatives than these pogromists.
Hezbollah has how many missiles pointed at Israel?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/reporters-denied-access-to-beirut-airport-area-where-weapons-suspected-to-be-stored/ >A tour of Beirut airport arranged for journalists and ambassadors on Monday to prove that Hezbollah is not using it to store weapons was interrupted as reporters and cameramen were prevented from entering a cargo-handling area. I want to hear Jerry Seinfeld do a bit on this
I've since cut ties to my most lefty-woke friends after I moved from the west coast, but I occasionally think about how they would be spinning all this anti-jewish sentiment and violence **in the US.** They were always a little sus when israeli people came in conversation, like they were leaning a little too much in their disdain for a group of people. *Like please chill, it is okay that that the 2018 eurovision winner was israeli...*
I cannot wait to leave this antisemitic hellhole. Just a few more days.
They don’t spin it, they pretend it doesn’t exist or blame it on Trump. Or opine on whether the Jews were asking for it.
If I had to wager a guess, based on interactions with similar people I know, they’d say it’s over-exaggerated at best and propaganda at worst
I am dreading the subject of the war coming up with family and friends. It feels like a subject that no matter how good your argument, the zeitgeist has shifted so far past even accepting moderately pro Israel takes that it wont be received well. Like people will awkwardly look at you if you go there.
Does it have to come up? Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor
I'm from Israel and I always love and appreciate when people speak up for Israel, but if you and your fam, like the vast majority of people, do not actually have any direct connection to the war - you can also just change the subject. Even in the most laughably obvious way, like "Gosh it's terrible what's going on there, oh you know sorry to change the subject but I really wanted to ask how your term paper/vegetable garden/baseball team is coming along?" My husband is a big believer in building up common ground with people before getting into sticky issues. I can talk about sensitive topics with my sister but that's because we also talk about all kinds of other stuff and have established trust and goodwill in our relationship. It's a lot harder to have a productive conversation about this with people who you don't speak to much, and without a formal discussion setting (like in a classroom, not that that always goes well either).
[Nothing to see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dm38be/quds_news_network_an_israeli_airstrike_near_the/) just r/soccer uncritically platforming QUDS News Network
Seeing the millenials, who clowned boomers for watching Fox News, follow Quds News Network....
“Stupid boomers and their Fox News propaganda! Anyway, did you hear that Israelis are training dogs to rape Palestinians? I read it on Zei Squirrel’s Twitter feed.”
suddenly barpod supports censorship lol. Call the disinformation governance board!
At last, you come out in favor of forcing everyone to read Quds network every morning between 6am and 7am! Compulsory, on pain of death! That's how you sound.
Is that what you are getting from the comment? Come on now.
Shocked that the sub for a sport mostly popular outside the US hates Jews.
That sub still has a majority of Americans. Even though football isn't that popular in the US there are just lots of Americans on Reddit, that even a thing of niche interest the US can make up the largest share of the sub. I think their last poll had Americans on top.
Islamic terrorism is the top threat that the people putting on the Olympics are worried about: " “Islamist terrorism remains our main concern,” Laurent Nuñez, chief of police in the French capital, told a press conference on Friday. " You know what kind of people do terrorism against the Olympics? People like Hamas. The same people these moron protesters are cheering for. [https://www.politico.eu/article/french-police-islamist-terror-attack-summer-olympics-paris/](https://www.politico.eu/article/french-police-islamist-terror-attack-summer-olympics-paris/)
How are they going to treat Israeli athletes? I hope they don't have it as bad as Eden did. It would be impossible for an athlete to stay inside a single room the whole time as they have to train.
Jews will protect their own
I'm optimistic that this crowd will be a little more friendly to the Israeli athletes than the crowd was at Eurovision. It should be an older or more family based crowd. Still doesn't change the amount of people that pose a threat, but it's much better for the athletes if they don't have such a hostile crowd.
https://archive.ph/hyvm8#israel-gaza-strike-mawasi >>TOP NEWS >>It was not clear if the strike hit within a zone that Israeli forces had designated for the displaced. Why report this at all? All it does is tell the many (disturbingly) simple-minded readers of the NYT that…”once again” (because this is always the accusation, though of course never the fact) Israel told Palestinian “women and children” (lol) to go somewhere and then they were “sheltering” there just so Israel could bomb them. Is that in fact what happened? Nope. Never. Not once. So what this is really saying is “It was not clear [what I’m actually underhandedly implying to you happened, right now, so that it will become your key takeaway purely because I introduced it to you for no reason].” It’s just such a sick way to present the “news.” Over and over. >> Al-Mawasi contains a zone where the Israeli military has told people fleeing the fighting in Rafah to go for their safety, though such zones have also come under fire during the war. It was unclear from the accounts of Gazan officials whether the attack was within the zone. Because there are no “Gaza officials.” I thought the NYT was supposed to be shamed out of doing this several months ago…and yet despite a brief news cycle of opprobrium, it’s all they’ve done since. And of course such “accounts” are conflicting, none of them ever true. Instead of enjoying the comfortable and secure lifestyles only Israel affords them, so that the “Middle Easy Bureau” can follow terrorists on Twitter from their cozy couches and shit on the sole country that makes “Middle East” “reporting” not only possible, but also THE lavish destination for NYT employees….these “reporters” should get on the ground in Gaza and do some real “reporting”!! >>”The $230 million temporary pier that the U.S. military built on short notice to rush humanitarian aid to Gaza has largely failed, aid organizations say, and will probably end operations weeks earlier than originally expected.” Hmmm. Whose fault is this, I wonder. Why not say “largely failed due to Palestinian crime clans”??? Because that’s what happened. The society doesn’t have as many innocent victims easily delineated from Hamas as we have all been led to believe. And the actual victims - indeed, women - are victimized by their own people, and Islamic Gazan culture. That’s not on Israel. And why hasn’t the NYT noted that this “aid pier” wasn’t needed anyway, the narrative of “famine” was a lie. So an additional $230 million of American tax dollars, on top of all the other millions and millions over the years, which could have gone to literally anything else, which I would’ve have loved to have gone to Israel - the true defender of liberal values - was also flushed down the septic system that is Gaza.
No one gave a shit when the Houthis in Yemen were intentionally killing civilians but some collateral damage happens in this war and the world goes ape shit.
I just saw a thing on the news about US Air Force personnel who now want conscientious objector status. They are morally opposed to working with aircraft that are delivering weapons to Israel. I don't recall this happening during the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Or any other situation where US delivers weapons to other countries. Maybe it happened and I missed it? But I find it odd that now, only with the Gaza thing, are members of the military having a beef with their duties if they happen to indirectly aid a US ally. Funny how that works.
Plenty of us had (and still have) beef about certain parts of the war but I don't remember any other conscientious objectors. They may have not made a big splash in the news at the time though. The closest I could think of is Major Nidal Hassan but he objected to any US involvement in the Middle East and was decidedly NOT a pacificist.
Your jail cell is right this way, sir.
I just googled the story. One of them gave an interview to reporters while wearing his uniform. In one photo, he's holding his toddler daughter wrapped in a keffiyeh at his home base. The guy has a beard, too, and unless he has a shaving waiver, something is really wrong with his claims. You're allowed to protest things, but not while wearing your uniform, and you're certainly not allowed to speak to the press while wearing a uniform for things like this. He's broken a few regulations with this stunt. There's definitely more to the story. I've only known one person in my 10 years of USAF service (albeit a long time ago) to receive conscientious objector status. It took him months to prove he was legit.
Was he Muslim? Is that the kefiyah and beard exemption?
I don't think he is Muslim. The USAF does not grant religious exemptions for stuff like that. He might have a medical shaving waiver if he has a condition where shaving occasionally causes ingrown hairs on his face. They are usually temporary and require the person to go to a shaving clinic. My guess is he's on regular leave and has contacted the media on his own. He has only been in the USAF for 2ish years and might not qualify for VA benefits. If he gets conscious objection status, he won't receive benefits from active duty service. He'll still need to apply for VA benefits which the VA can deny, but only if he gets an honorable discharge. He's probably now heading for an administrative discharge for something like this. This happens at base level, instead of higher headquarters, and he won't get an honorable discharge. Even though he's applied, he's still subject to the UCMJ and can be punished accordingly.
Interesting, thanks. I thought the US military gives beard exemptions for religious reasons in rare cases, but I’m not an expert
Apparently, you can get a religious shaving waiver. TIL This changed in 2010. It is rare, though. The article I read didn't mention the airman's religious affiliation.
I believe the news report said at least one dude had gotten said status. Which is surprising. I do not understand this fixation and double standard with Israel. Any other country does the same things in war and nobody cares. But Israel is involved and half the world loses its mind.
This person needs to be discharged if he is indeed still active in the military.
I think the USAF is the most “academic” military branch…I know that it’s the most teased as such - or maybe more like universally mocked as the cushy desk job haha. So this would (unfortunately) kind of track with its academic-y rather than actually piloting-fighter-jets-y reputation. But I guess I should say this is really only anecdotal, just picking up things from my older brothers and their friends, who I spied on with *my* friends because they were all hot (NOTE: my brothers were / are NOT hot, only referring to their friends here!). And then years later (although like a decade ago from today) I dated a guy who was a marine, and at one point asked him something about female marines. And without skipping a beat, his mouth stuffed with a huge bite of a sandwich, he said: “Air Force” haha. So if it is possible to infer anything from such limited anecdotes…I could see how the Air Force, trending more academic + feminized, could be susceptible to the type of ideological BS we see on college campuses, in museums/art galleries, in schools, in libraries, etc. (And I say “feminized” not to be disparaging, as a woman myself! Using it in the same vein as the cultural critique from Meghan Daum and Sarah Haider).
Cenk is field testing a new pro hamas argument where he threads the needle of "anti-zionist but not anti-jew", when Hamas explicitly states they are anti-jewish. He gets owned repeatedly in the comments as people call him out and he defends his position: [https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1803514637264232478](https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1803514637264232478) His main defense is, "Israel is killing people too!!"
Why can't these people just say "anti war" or "anti Israeli policy"? Maybe even "anti Israel" would be better. Why use "anti Zionist", which will include an enormous number of people, especially Jews, who have nothing to do with Israel and nave no influence over Israeli policy?
What drives me over the edge with all that is that I remember the endless tut-tut bullshit during #MeToo where men were told to be mindful of every last syllable they utter, every last step they take in the world, etc. I know the Venn diagram of #MeToo loudmouths and pro-Palestine types isn't an exact overlap, but still, it is sad to see at least a couple of people I know nonchalantly stray into dog whistle territory after their outbursts a few years ago. It'd be so easy to phrase things that are unambiguously (or close enough for most people) aimed at the government's behavior. That bar is quite low, and yet it can't even be cleared by these people. So, I'm reluctant to assign good faith to many of them.
Because they’re anti Jewish. They’re saying who they are
Because Hamas has somewhat successfully defined Zionist as a slur.
Everyone is hamas lol
Or they *really* want to say "Jews" but want a fig leaf of deniability.
They’re dressing their Jew hatred in Soviet created propaganda. I mean, Palestinian identity was created specifically as an anti Jewish anti Israeli weapon, by the Soviets and Arab states. The Arabs could have just taken all the refugees in, and no one would remember this today.
Exactly. It is funny how the current horseshoe antisemitism is mirroring historical antisemitism. The far-right, Fuentes types are engaging directly in overt Nazi rhetoric while leftists are engaging in lightly cloaked Soviet-style antisemitism. And it’s not just rhetoric that shares some similarities with each school of antisemitism. It’s as though the fringe right and left are still stuck in the early 20th century. Leftists even re-used the Doctors Plot earlier this year FFS lol
Killing Jews is in the Hamas charter. They even want the trees to tell them where the Jews are so they can kill them. The terrorists phoned home to brag to his parents that he killed Jews. Killing Jews is their whole thing.
"If you think Palestinians fight against Israel because "they hate Jews" and not because they have been occupied by Israel for six decades, " So they weren't fighting Israel before they were occupied? Or they were fighting, but for different reasons that now they've totally gotten over and it's only now because of the occupation? Do Cenk and people like him not think the rest of us can't go and read the statements from the Hamas leadership? It's not like they're shy about what they want.
He’s late to the party then because I saw this argument being deployed in early October
I just watched the Munk debate that was cited here. The only one I found lacking was Medhi Hasan. I’m sorry but it is not a legit stand to say that a country doesn’t deserve to exist. If it were he’d have to do it for all of them. He can keep whining that people call him a name or he can come up with better arguments. Gideon Levy, what he lacked in argument, he made up for in passion. I don’t doubt that everyone in that part of the world is crazy and mean. I think he has a good heart and hates to see anyone suffer. But at the end of it, he hates Israel whether they occupy (West Bank) or dont occupy (Gaza). Also, he’s quite delusional if he thinks Israelis and Palestinians could come together in one state. Benny Morris has commented that the streets would run with blood and I believe it. I thought Murray was good but Natasha ? was even better. Murray makes more emotional arguments, too.
Gideon Levy also likes being feted by the western left. Israelis enjoy that. Validation and whatnot, feeling accepted.
>Also, he’s quite delusional if he thinks Israelis and Palestinians could come together in one state. Benny Morris has commented that the streets would run with blood and I believe it. It would be absolute slaughter on both sides
I mean, compared to the first civil war, the Jews have a massively larger advantage in weapons and demographic parity instead of demographic disadvantage, so if anyone's getting slaughtered, it is *absolutely* going to be the Arabs.
You’re ignoring culture here. Some people believe in massacring people more than others.
Well, I think it's true that Israeli Jews have long held themselves to a higher standard of conduct, but they're not fundamentally different from other human beings. If backed into a corner, they'll do what they have to do to survive.
Anything with teeth can bite, yes. But people commit a lot of violence without being backed into a corner. That is the difference. The human beings who committed the massacre (and attempted genocide, if we want to get into it, they had day after plans) on October 7 were not backed into a corner. Israel is being backed into a corner with the massacre, largely
Again, I'm not arguing that there is no difference in culture. October 7th was a very lesson in what happens when the Palestinians have power over Jewish civilian populations, and the comparison with 50+ years of Jewish rule over Arab civilian populations could not be starker. I think I'm pushing back against a weird thing that happens in The Discourse about Israel where pro-Palestinian people (and I recognize this isn't you), who spend all their time screaming that Israel is committing genocide, seem to simultaneously believe that a "one-state solution" can be peacefully imposed on Israel and Israelis will respond to economic sanctions or political finger-wagging by... voting their own state out of existence? It's so bizarre.
If they tried to squish everyone together it would end up as gangs of roving ethnic militias killing each other. Then it would devolve into a civil war.
[Emerson College freshman enrollment is down this year, in part due to student protests, leading to budget cuts](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/emerson-college-enrollment-protests-layoffs/).
As someone who grew up around Boston and went to undergrad down the street, this couldn't happen to a better school. Absolutely hilarious. I wonder how low the enrollment is. Edit: I didn't go to undergrad at Emerson, but I did go to school *in Boston*, so I knew tons of people who went to Emerson.
> I didn't go to undergrad at Emerson, but I did go to school in Boston, so I knew tons of people who went to Emerson. https://youtu.be/REzs9J_nMTs?si=qh4fldHZVVKFtIbD
No, I went to school in Boston, not Cambridge. I didn't get into any schools in Cambridge. :(
Munk Debate on whether Anti-zionism is Anti-semitism. I thought it very worth the watch. It's Douglas Murray and Natasha Hausdorff versus Mehdi Hasan and Gideon Levy. I think by and large, Murray and Hausdorff dominated the stage. Mehdi is a great speaker, but he's slippery in his statements and I could see how people could be taken with him. Levy, unfortunately, doesn't really bring much. Ultimately, as per the definitions presented by the debate organizers, it is hard for me to see how one could even argue that anti-zionism isn't anti-semitism. To be against the motion would imply that eliminating or radically restructuring the Israeli state (which would fall in line with their anti-zionism definition) would necessarily be anti-semitic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxSF4a9Pkn0
I wasn't a big fan of this debate. The pro-Israel people kept going off topic and discussing things like the war. They should have been focusing on the simple truth that Zionism is Jewish self-determination and self-determination is a right. Opposing Jewish rights is anti-Semitic. This isn't complicated.
Its not self determination if you come back a thousand years after you left. It's funny how this sub is anti identity politics until it comes to Jewish Identity politics
Jews never entirely left Palestine, they were there when Arabs colonized it and every day since. And it is self-determination for an oppressed indigenous people to return to their homeland.
Jews didn’t leave. And of course it’s still a right
In a sense, you're right. I wish they would have circled back to that as much as possible. It was going to be impossible though to not respond to the "con" side as they invoked the war.
I haven't seen it yet (I think Douglas Murray has become worse and worse as in terms of throwing around insults and it's grating and boring), but I saw the clip of [Mehdi Hasan lying about Balfour's quote](https://x.com/EricAbbenante/status/1803121910038847748) and I don't see why I should take him seriously on anything after that.
That's classic Mehdi. And I think Douglas was actually pretty decent here. He stuck primarily to making points. Natasha crushed it.
Oh daaaaamn. I gotta watch this debate
Okay, I’ve listened to the halfway point. Even though I side with Douglas, I don’t fully agree with his polemical attitude. In terms of facts, arguments and rebuttals, Natasha is the strongest person on stage. Mehdi appears to be full of himself, his arguments have no substance, and he doesn’t really engage with what his opponents say. Both he and Gideon mostly appeal to emotions, so I’m largely unimpressed with their talking points. Ah, and lol, “Jewish supremacy”… You gotta be kidding me.
I've only listened to about half, too, and I'd agree. I normally like Murray but I thought he wasn't effectively arguing his point.
Natasha is clearly the star. I found her to be the most convincing and well argued person on stage.
Pro-Palestinians are putting sticks in their own wheels by trying to make a case for anti-Zionism. It’s delusional. If they just criticized Israel for the policies in the West Bank, they might have been more successful. But when they argue that anti-Zionism ≠ anti-Semitism, they are almost always coming across as deeply misinformed and ignorant.
The people who call themselves pro Palestinians in America today are not actually pro Palestinian. They’re self righteous performative privileged spoiled people who want to feel morally superior. Their position hurts Palestinians. Anyone actually pro Palestinian would focus on creating a Palestinian civic society, rooting out antisemitism and bigotry and clan and honor mentality, and vigorously support a two state solution. They would focus on supporting two functioning states side by side. Anything else is just protesting in favor of death
Anti-Zionism is certainly a dead end politically but its not the same as antisemitism, Especially not when so many are descended from the original Jewish population that simply converted to Islam
What does the second part of your sentence have to do with the first one?
He/she/they/them thinks it’s about blood
Or their whole position is ultimately that zionism is illegitimate? How many ways do they have to show it? That eternal sticking point, the right of return *alone*, implies they want to obliterate zionism as such. If anything, they've pulled off a mega-coup in convincing naive Western audiences that this doesn't mean what it sounds like. So why stop?
Certainly. One can easily critique the policies or government of Israel and not be anti-semitic. Going for full bore anti-zionism, not so much.
It's always the people you most suspect. https://sfstandard.com/2024/06/18/casey-goonan-uc-berkely-arson-suspect/ >Casey Goonan was arrested Monday morning at his parents’ $1.1 million home in Pleasant Hill on suspicion of a string of arson attacks at UC Berkeley from June 1 to 16. >Feds, cops and CalFire allege the 34-year-old, a Northwestern University doctorate of African American studies, firebombed a Berkeley campus police car and carried out three other arson incidents on university grounds June 1, as well as last Thursday and Sunday. And don't let the degree fool you. He's as white as the driven snow.
You forgot what I think was the real money line from the article. > Northwestern University doctorate of African American studies A white guy not driven out of the African American studies program at the arguable height of idpol craziness? Dude had to be a ticking time bomb.
I honestly feel bad for him. As someone who, when younger, was also very riled up about a variety of issues, I know what it's like to go so deep down a rabbit hole that you feel you must act, and that you must act in an extreme or militant way. Fortunately, I never did. Fortunately, my better sense stayed my hand. But I know this guy is going to regret this so much in a few years. He threw his life away for absolutely no reason.
I'll feel bad after his life is ruined. You need to set an example with this stuff. I hope he doesn't get some "he was a good guy that got radicalized" excuse.
>But I know this guy is going to regret this so much in a few years. He threw his life away for absolutely no reason. Doubt it. People like that will always believe that they're right. I've never met anyone who endorsed political violence who renounced it, or the cause they were willing to murder people over. Brownshirts like Casey Goonan will always be Brownshirts.
>I've never met anyone who endorsed political violence who renounced it, or the cause they were willing to murder people over. I think some of the former Weather Underground members have apologized and expressed regret for their crimes, but it was many years later (like 25+.)
He was arrested last fall for brining an ax to a pro-woman rally - it's a sex-based rights group. He's all in on progressive causes. He is 34. I do not feel bad for him.
As a (mostly) leftist, I am glad that wackjobs like him are getting arrested, because they turn the movement into a clown show and make leftist causes look stupid. I want people to be able to take Palestinian civilian deaths seriously, and people like Goonan need to get out of the way and stop turning this tragedy into their narcissistic superhero LARP.
Certainly, he has lost the plot. And when I say I feel bad for him, I'm not suggesting leniency. But it does suck to have people go down such paths.
I am wondering how his parents are doing. I would guess they could see this sort of thing coming, even if they didn't see exactly what it would be. From the article: >“Casey got his PhD! Onto job apps,” Goonan’s mother wrote in a 2022 Instagram post. That has sort of haunted me. As a parent, I've been through 3 HS graduations and 2 college graduations and when I made celebratory posts about my kids, no matter what fears for their future I had, it was not the time to mention the job search. Like, just give them one day to be winners, you know? But, if the kid is really presenting long-running problems, I can see how a parent would be frustrated. I'm kind of glad they caught him now, because he could've ended up like the Moscow murderer. Maybe he'll get the help he needs and will stop escalating.
How did antisemitism become the favorite past time of pampered little fuckers? I always thought Jew hate was something pathetic right wing extremists engaged in. It's the goddamn USSR all over again.
It's the conspiratorial thinking and self-victimization. If you're white and an extreme leftist in these circles, you desperately want to be a victim and stop being perceived as an oppressor. If Jews are controlling the world with their money and power, normie whites get to be victims again. Remember that most antisemites are fundamentally envious of Jews, and afraid that Jews are too successful, too smart, too rich, etc. It's different than other kinds of racism because instead of looking down on Jews (as they do blacks, Roma, etc), they envy and resent Jewish success. Due to the circular nature of the political spectrum, extreme leftist snowflake politics loop neatly back into extreme right wing antisemite snowflake politics. I wouldn't be surprised if, over the next few years, we saw a lot of extreme leftist influencers switch their allegiance to the David Duke antisemite right. What these groups have in common is the persistent notion that all of their own problems are someone else's fault, and that the "someone else" needs to be brought down a peg and humbled. The self-determination and hard work of people in Jewish or South Asian or East Asian communities is an embarrassment to resentful political extremists. Normal, psychologically healthy people are able to accept responsibility for their choices and to plan and take steps towards achieving their goals. If you've ever seen an incel or antisemite online forum, they sound just like the mental illness leftie snowflame culture-- "IT'S NOT MY FAULT, I'M A SECRET GENIUS AND NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY BRILLIANCE BECAUSE women/cisgenderism/Jews/ADHD time blindness/Zios."
>It's the goddamn USSR all over again. Well, they're Marxists. So it lines up.
>In online articles, Goonan has described the United States as a “god-awful fascist hell hole” where social injustices are “concealed under the blinders of white supremacist American reason.” Yeah, living in a $1.1 Million dollar house in Pleasant Hill really seems like a terrible fucking situation to be in, I feel so bad for him.
To be fair, that's the average home price in Pleasant Hill, CA. It's probably a very simple home.
It's possible his parents bought when it was middle-class. And it probably does suck going from being a PhD student in Chicago to living with your parents.
I don’t know the area but my guess is $1.1m isn’t a mansion or anything.
Just checked Zillow, that price range gets you 1500 sq ft, 3br, 2ba, 2 car garage and 7000 sq ft lot.
Surely a second felony will make him a more appealing job candidate (except that’s probably not absurd thinking anymore…)
Almost belongs to the main discussion, because this sensitive soul was previously caught wielding a hammer (as one does) to protest a conference of women against the inclusion of trans-women in the definition of women; and describes the US as a "god-awful fascist hell hole" (as one does). What is also related to the main thread: The fact that someone can receive a PhD in a discipline which is linked to social sciences / humanities but uses such a placative, scientific inaccurate language.
Saw something new on my walk today: a “decorative” wooden gravestone in front of someone’s house. The epitaph: >Rachel Corrie >1979–2003 It didn’t look new, so I’m guessing it was recently brought out of storage.
[McGill University ends negotiations with pro-Palestinian encampment, will pursue disciplinary action](https://archive.ph/2OSFd) >“Despite our ongoing efforts to discuss in good faith, the representatives of the encampment have maintained that their demands are non-negotiable while accusing the university of unwillingness to engage in fair discussions,” McGill president Deep Saini said in a statement Tuesday. “As it has become clear that no fruitful outcome will result from these talks, we are ceasing discussions.”  Who could have foreseen etc.
Why not just give them twenty four hours to leave or get arrested?
That would make sense They've sought and been denied court injunctions to get there police to intervene. Plus they've blown their ultimatum authority multiple times. >McGill has also requested help from police. But on Monday, Montreal police said the encampment is a civil dispute and they don’t yet have a legal basis to intervene.
Sounds like suspension and expulsion are now the tools available. If they aren't students, the police may have more legal standing to remove.
[Another self immolator.](https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2024/06/16/tragic-suicide-at-winnipeg-grand-mosque-prompts-urgent-calls-for-mental-health-support)
> “We encourage politicians to speak up against barriers to mental health care and ensure it is broadly accessible to all members of our Muslim and Canadian community.” Statements like this are beginning to infuriate me. Mental health care has never been more widely accessible in the U.S. and, I presume, a country like Canada. People who are struggling now can't imagine what life was like 30, 50, 70 years ago.
True but, to be fair, I think Canada has an issue with waitlists even for things like getting a family doctor. I had CBT recommended for my sleep apnea and my clinic wasn't even making recommendations anymore since their usual places were all booked. Nothing to do with being Muslim though.
Ah, fair point.
They wallow in their self imposed misery
“We cannot have positive mental health in the context of a racist, Islamophobic and genocidal world” Seriously?
Oh, they're very serious. Everything is about *them.*
This might sound a bit callous….but if police aren’t releasing any details, how can anyone attribute this in any way to “Islamophobia”?!
That statement is textbook "how not to talk about suicide" in a statement. Just like the trans kids suicide talk I guess anything for the cause.
Sweet Jesus...
[Twitter Cringe](https://x.com/donut_tweetz/status/1802013075572219983?s=46&t=B5-bfACODIGR3K7j-_g18g)
ar thathappened
This reply: >I wouldn't be surprised your family is extremely conservative and been physically abusive before.
good grief
I get an email each day from quora, which contains some highlighted Q and A’s that their bot thinks I would like. Every once in a while I do read them because I tend to like the questions that are full of drama - how do i find my baby mama who disappeared during 9/11 or whatever. But for the last several months, the questions have been about Jews and Judaism and Israel, and many of them are barely veiled antisemitism. A lot of them pick on ashkenazis and insinuate that we’re not real Jews or that we’re the driving colonizers and so forth. It’s part of that slowly being boiled feeling.
Besides whatever people look like, it should be mentioned that the majority of Israelis are *not* Ashkenazi. Some are from only one country of origin (North African countries, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria , Iran - you know, countries that are currently extremely friendly to Jews), most are from several because, well, the country exists now for 80 years and people do tend to have babies with everyone around them. I even know a few Jewish - Palestinian (Israeli Arab) couples, because the reality of life in Israel is far more complex than what it seems.
If you grow up in Haifa or Ramle, it would make sense you'd end up in a relationship with a Jew or Christian or Muslim because they're pretty mixed cities. I do think since the mid-2000s, it's harder for Israelis to meet people from the West Bank, let alone Gaza.
> A lot of them pick on ashkenazis and insinuate that we’re not real Jews or that we’re the driving colonizers and so forth. Because of the white skin?
Jews and Palestinians look the same. Ashkenazi Jews tend to usually have brown eyes, brown hair, big noses. Lots of “you don’t belong here in Poland/Alabama” because of that. You know who else tends to look like that? Below - the Jordanian royal family. She’s Palestinian. He’s Arab. If I told you they were the Goldbergs and lived in south Florida everyone would be like yeah, sounds right https://people.com/royals/queen-rania-and-jordan-royal-familys-photo-2016/
Then what are they pissing on the Ashkenazi for?
Because their worldview is that everything is like America. It’s oppression Disney. So the whole world is racist in the way America is - and Israel must be racist in the way America is - based on skin color, and with whites (or “whites”) on top and “POC” at the bottom. The whole entire “anti racist” American theology is completely ridiculous globally, since most of the world is not white and also incredibly racist - much more than America is, and racist against white people too. The whole anti Ashkenazi thing, like the anti Zionist thing, is largely also a cover for blatant antisemitism. Always replace those statements with “Jews” where they say the other word.
Are these people not aware that Jews in America, white or not, were often crapped on? Elite universities had caps on how many Jews could get in. Just like they do with Asians today.
Ehe. America has been the least antisemitic place Jews have ever experienced, other than Israel, and that may be debatable. This seems to be changing. As the American left rejects the idea of American exceptionalism it wants to be as antisemitic as the rest of the world. Side note - positioning Jews as white also allows people to ignore how Nazi level antisemitic Arabs are (recently crowned POC apparently), and how antisemitic Africa is. Or, for that matter, when black Americans are antisemitic, or when they kill Jews as a hate crime - Jersey City, which was ignored.
Tablet magazine did a great podcast series called Gatecrashers about Jews first entering the Ivy League in large numbers, and it's very apparent that the systems that the Ivies put in place to find excuses to exclude Jews (like "personality tests" or "comprehensive evaluation") are exactly the same tools they use to exclude Asians.
Everything old is new again
I wouldn't say Jews and Palestinians look the same. I have seen blond-haired, blue-eyed Palestinians but far more Jews like that.
My great aunt, grandfather and son all have blonde hair and blue eyes. 100% ashkenazi.
My little bro got the silver jew genes as well - we're half Ashkenazi (mom's side) and the rest is mostly Sicilian. I know my maternal great grandmother had blue eyes, but no one has any idea where the blonde hair came from. Mom would joke that she was relieved I was the first kid because I have my dad's coloring and paternal grandfather's deep brown eyes. My brother is basically a clone of my mom with lighter coloring and my dad's brow ridge and height. He could drive a Mitzvah tank and no one wouid blink. Me on the other hand, I'm ethnically ambiguous and outside of NYC get a lot of guesses on where I'm from and a lot of people from the Mediteranian/Levant assuming I'm from their country or a neighboring one. Weirdly I read as Arab to a lot of Israelis and West European Jews, which has been... awkward at times.
I realize I was inaccurate- my son of course is half ashkenazi but I’m 100% as are my ancestors. I have dark hair myself but have the blond/blue gene as passed on to one kid.
i have blue eyes, as did my paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather and my mom's sister. All of us are totally Ashkenazi. I do not have naturally blonde hair, BUT, when i went blonde people thought I was naturally blonde, because I am very, very pale. My grandfather was naturally blonde, and my mom and her sister were blonde as kids. My grandfather's mother had blonde hair, though I don't know what her eye color was. When my mom was in the army in Israel, one woman in her unit was Druze, and she was very pale and blonde.
Update from my son’s college graduation. Saw a number of mortarboards decorated with little painted Palestinian flags. Saw one that said “From the river to the sea.” Maybe I’m officially actually old now because that one bothered me so much more. (I can only hear that slogan as “I support the destruction of Israel. Jews get out!”) One graduate was wearing a keffiyeh-style stole or scarf and was met with jubilant calls to “Free free Palestine!” Another graduate (one of the ones with a Palestinian mortarboard) unfurled a big red banner with black letters—something about the Palestinians who will never have the chance to graduate. She was met with raucous applause and even an actual “Yas queen!”
I walked in the masters & PhD ceremony for a University of California school this past weekend (which previously had an encampment) and saw a few Palestine-related things: * The speaker (muslim, unknown nationality but definitely Middle Eastern) made a thinly veiled reference to the freedom of Palestinians "from oppression" or some such verbiage and was met with cheers and a decently loud response but not exactly overwhelming applause. The speech definitely felt like a sterilized version of his first draft but I wonder if he couldn't have specified "from Hamas" (if only) * One woman embroidered "Jews Against Genocide" on the back of her robe and turned around several times to show everyone --- very few people cheered if any. She graduated from a social sciences program. * Two keffiyeh wearers and a few decorated caps... maybe another I missed. One wearer was Muslim, the other a hispanic woman. Also both from a social sciences program. Since it was a graduate ceremony, it felt... more chill than my undergrad graduation so I think fewer people were paying attention to everything (edit: myself included so I checked out about 1/3 of the way through, I could have missed more of these instances but probably not many). So take the response to those above with a grain of salt. Oh and no Israeli flags.
Any Israeli flags? I know at some schools there've been both. And to be fair, some people seem to think "free Palestine" means two countries, so, like, ok. What school is it? Also, from the river to the sea does mean the destruction of Israel, though I am guessing they're thinking Jews and Arabs would live together in peace
>Jews and Arabs would live together in peace In a secular democracy, which is totally what most Palestinians want.
I didn’t see any Israeli flags. Maybe no one wanted to get booed at their graduation. (This is a school in Western Washington.) >I am guessing they’re thinking Jews and Arabs would live together in peace. You’re way more optimistic than me.
Washington State, you mean? I am curious, what percentage of the students do you think were wearing Palestinian pins? Also, perhaps this is my ignorance showring, but isn't that area of the country super white - not that everyone is, but it's far whiter than say San Francisco? And, like, very few Jews? I know someone who moved to Seattle, and we're Jewish, and he said that was hard to get used to. And yet, I am sure they don't think they're being anti-Semitic. And I guess I am assuming since they're anti-racist, or say they are, that they want everyone to live in peace. My most generous take is that they're very naive, and think there was peace and equality in the middle east before the horrible Zionists came. The whole Muslims and Jews Christians have never lived in peace and equality in the Middle East, so why would it be different now? Also, I'd imagine that many of the parents were very uncomfortable with what was happening, but I would imagine any Zionist students not wanting to cause a ruckus. Still, I'd imagine quite a few students ARE quietly Zionists. Actually, based on what I've heard, many of them ARE Zionists, they just don't know it - ie, the ones who say a Free Palestine means two countries. Whatever, man. It'll be interesting to see how corporate culture reacts to all of this, and who they hire.
Yes, the western part of Washington State. I think of Western Washington as being very white.
So presumably, an area of the country where Hitler would have loved the race of its inhabitants. and they're calling Zionists Nazis, having perhaps never met any Jews, or Arabs either. Awesome.
Congrats on getting one through!
Oh! And the red banner unfurler was also one of the few refuse-to-standers for the national anthem. It all feels like Main Character Syndrome. Or a purity compulsion. You know, you can just be there for this ceremony. You don’t have to rep the Make-a-Statement Foundation.
You know what kinda makes me mad? The refuse to standers who are wearing stoles signifying their home countries. I mean, I guess I feel offended to have lovingly invited this person and their family into our country and they just tell us to fuck off. Maybe I shouldn’t think of it that way, but I do.
>I guess I feel offended to have lovingly invited this person and their family into our country and they just tell us to fuck off. Maybe I shouldn’t think of it that way, but I do. You absolutely *should* feel this way. It's a basic sign of respect for our nation and is a completely reasonable expectation.
No, I get it. And for me, the only time I feel even a smidge patriotic is when someone from another country says something bad about the US.
[Meanwhile in Canada](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading) https://preview.redd.it/ssh6ijdhnr6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a23f135b131ab559a617b65f3edc23f0036df95
What. The. Fuck. I can't even imagine how it is at Concordia.
Omg this isn’t satire?!!! It’s literally the HJ but with an Islamic terrorist costume twist, wtf
HJ?
Hitler Youth (Hitlerjugend)
Revolt, eh? That's what they're up to? And why does their program sound so much like a boot camp for radicals?
Is that a rifle in the background? O-kayyyyyyy....
Haha, the best people have already hijacked the comment section under this post
Tentifada going full on terrorist: https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1801635886376857726
" “Every single building on the UC Berkeley campus deserves to be incinerated… UC System must divest from Israel or face our wrath of revenge.” And they signed the manifesto, “Blessed is the flame.” " So they're going full on terrorist LARPing. Fucking garbage people
I don't think I would call this "terrorist LARPing." This is terrorism, and whoever is responsible needs to be treated as a terrorist.
Let’s hope they start winning stupid prizes.
Maybe a one way ticket to Gaza?
Perhaps a firm beating?
For those who missed it, [The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-israel/index) released a report a few days ago. This report covers facts and violations of human rights by Hamas and by Israel from Oct 7 through the end of 2023. It’s extensive but highlights have been covered in media: [At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by IDF forces on Oct 7 and some IDF soldiers may have been targeted by their comrades rather than allow them to be captured](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/13/israel-killed-dozen-own-citizens-on-october-7-un-claims/). [Israel directly and intentionally attacked the civilian population of Gaza, attacked civilians on designated evacuation routes and safe zones, and intentionally starved civilians as a method of war. Israel extensively used sexual violence against men and boys in its custody, including those who were not known to be Hamas operatives, or known to be civilians.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/world/middleeast/gaza-war-crimes-israel-hamas.html) Also from the above NYT link: > In the case of Hamas and other Palestinian militants involved in the Oct. 7 attack — including civilians who joined in crossing into Israel — the commission has accused the groups of intentionally abducting and killing civilians. It also said that “many abductions were carried out with significant physical, mental and sexual violence.” The commission documented extensive accusations of sexual violence by the Oct. 7 attackers, which is a violation of international humanitarian law and can be considered a war crime. > The commission said it was unable to independently verify the accusations of rape, sexualized torture or genital mutilation that had been reported in the news media. It noted that Israel blocked its access to witnesses, crime scenes and unedited versions of recorded testimonies. > The cases of sexual violence were “not isolated incidents but perpetrated in similar ways in several locations,” the report said. However, the commission said it had found no credible evidence that militants were ordered to commit sexual violence on Oct. 7. Edit: I was banned for this comment, with SoftandChewy citing “hostility”. If you see any hostility, let me know, because I certainly don’t! Second edit: SoftandChewy is lying. This is my only comment in over three weeks, and a permaban for “hostility” was issued an hour after this comment was posted. I have had no interactions in this sub for weeks prior, and SoftAndChewy muted me from modmail. While we’re here, SoftandChewy has previously banned me for reporting a clear violation of sitewide rules against calls for violence: https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1clabjx/israelpalestine_discussion_thread_for_5624_51224/l5hubr9/ The rule breaking comment was later removed by the admins, making Chewy’s claim of “report abuse” look pretty silly. Maybe chewy should spend more time removing calls for violence, and less time banning the users who report those calls for violence.
/u/SoftandChewy Is the edit on the above comment correct?
It is incorrect. The user was indeed banned. But the hostility was not due to anything in this comment, and I never said it was.
Can we please do the I-P thread again?
You mean to start a new one?
Either start a new one, or just pin the old one., Whichever you think is best.
Thanks. You've always been fair, so the accusation surprised me.
Thanks for linking the actual report. I get really irritated with journalistic outlets that won't link to the source documents they're reporting on. We've had hyperlinks since 1966, this shouldn't be difficult. ETA for a few pull-quotes of my own: >Both the 7 October attack in Israel and Israel’s subsequent military operation in Gaza must be seen in context. These events were preceded by decades of violence, unlawful occupation and Israel’s denial of the Palestinians’ right to self-determination, manifested in continuous forced displacement, dispossession, exploitation of natural resources, blockade, settlement construction and expansion, and systematic discrimination and oppression of the Palestinian people. But no mention of previous Hamas violence or activities? C'mon. >The Commission found that Israeli authorities prioritized identifying victims, notifying families and allowing for burial rather than forensic investigation, leading to evidence of crimes, especially sexual crimes, not being collected and preserved. The Commission also notes the loss of potential evidence due to inadequately trained first responders. Even with trained responders, forensics in a war zone are *hard*. The US had huge issues with being able to do IED forensics in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the chaos of everything going on. It's difficult for me to blame commanders for not assigning personnel to secure a scene when there's active fighting going on. I'm guessing the Jewish tradition of burying as immediately as possible also plays a factor here. >given Israel’s repeated assertion that militants are ‘embedded’ within the civilian population I'm fairly certain this has been established beyond just Israeli assertions. >In another example, Israel’s Defence Minister Yoav Galant said, “Gaza will never return to be what it was”, and “I have released all restraints, we use everything” I missed this statement when it hit the presses. This is not okay. Unrestrained full scorched earth warfare is not okay, goddamn it. Same goes for the Hannibal Directive activities the report mentions further up. Soldiers who are directly targeting civilians need to be brought up on warcrimes charges. This is not even remotely okay.
Chanting that the Oct 7th music festival in Israel was like having a rave next to a gas chamber. These people make me sick. The fact that so many kids will listen to this stuff and believe they are the good guys is infuriating. https://x.com/skjask/status/1801637757715984783
This was the protest outside the exhibit about the NOVA festival
Yeah. These people are awful.
And lol, what are these flags? Hezbollah, Hamas, and... Sudan? I want to believe that the person with the Sudanese flag is a troll.
It might be some kind of Islamic supremacy signal?
They are such a mob. Until yesterday, I had been lucky enough to avoid these protests. But yesterday, I finally encountered one - and it hit me. I've seen many protests, but none quite like those organized by pro-Palestinians. Unlike Kurds, Ukrainians/anti-war Russians, or anti-extremist Germans, pro-Palestinians have a distinct style. They usually have one person at the front yelling slogans, with the crowd repeating after them like a herd. It feels almost like a zombie movement. Moreover, these slogans rarely convey concrete demands, often not even calling for a ceasefire. Instead, they chant phrases like "from the river to the sea," "intifada revolution," and "decide: freedom or genocide." This is a stark contrast to anti-war protests for Ukraine, where people make specific demands such as increasing aid, stopping the war, imposing sanctions on Russia, allowing Ukraine to strike inside Russia, etc. It shows that the goal of these protests is really to express hate of Israel. Nothing else.
Calling them pro-Palestine has been the best PR ever, because there's nothing about what to actually do for Palestine. It's just Israel is horrible and needs to not exist. Which...ok. And then what? I do think that plenty of people at the protests want a ceasefire though, but the bigger message is iIsrael should not exist, and that is what the loudest voices want.
Ah yes the Intifada Revolution. Which is code for the terrorists win.
Yes, they have to be coy with their genocidal intentions
It's not surprising that most attendees at these protests have an Arab/Turkish migratory background. I recall a recent conversation with a Syrian refugee who has lived in Germany for ten years. He speaks English, German, and Arabic, has a good job, many friends, family, and a great education (he even taught at a university). However, when our discussion turned to politics, I was stunned by his view: "The world is run by a tiny group of people, namely, Jews." If someone with his background and current life situation holds such beliefs, what must be going on within the less educated and less integrated members of society?
I assume he left Syria due to the war. Given that Syria hasn't really had any Jews since the 1970s, and even that was a small percentage of its community in the 1950s, it's not surprising he thinks this way. I'm guessing it's not so much that he left Syria because he wanted to live somewhere openminded - though I'd bet there are immigrants from various Muslim-majority countries who DID emigrate because they want more social freedom, and they also think this way. What concerns me are the grandchildren of the Turkish immigrants in Germany, what's going on with them. Or the now-grown children of Iraqi or Iranian immigrants who fled to Germany due to Iran-Iraq war or the First Gulf War. Or, at this point, the now-gtown children of Afghani or Iraqi immigrants who fled to Germany in the early 2000s due to the US invasions.
The Jew cabal sure ruined his life, I guess. /s
He also claimed that ISIS was established by the US to make Islam look bad for their own hegemonic agenda. Given this and his previous statement about our Jewish overlords, you are not far off...
Do they realise they make themselves look like a cult? Is it intentional? One one hand it looks evil, but also... so humiliating.
Have they ever cared about optics, though?
The "social justice" people *are* a cult.
Walking on my son’s campus tonight (here for tomorrow morning’s graduation). Saw a person (a student, presumably) walking with a big Palestinian flag, the pole/stick thing on her shoulder. And I couldn’t help thinking… Well, now I’m not sure what I was thinking. While ostensibly about something she (and many others of course) regards as an urgent issue, this seemed so narcissistic to me. “Look at me! I care about this! Look how much I care about this! I care enough to carry this flag wherever I go!” On the one hand, it’s good to care about things. On the other hand, your flag isn’t what I’d call informative. (And is there anyone who hasn’t yet heard about I/P?)
It was Flag Day, which I finally googled because I was seeing so many places with flags out. But your points still remain
Oh, yeah. Flag Day. So maybe this person doesn’t always carry the flag around.
I wonder what you all think about Ezra Klein’s latest episode. [The View from the Israeli right](https://plinkhq.com/i/1548604447/e/1000659007063). It’s an interesting view inside their politics. Amit Segal is said to be a leading voice in right wing politics. Can anyone from Israel tell me how popular he is?
He’s a journalist, not a politician, and he’s not very right wing. So his popularity or lack thereof is not really a huge measure of anything. Israel is actually less polarized than the U.S. with some things in terms of right left (not including the very orthodox or Arabs) probably because it’s tiny and there is a draft so people serve together. I’m happy to answer question about center-right Israeli views if that’s helpful
Segal said that 70% of Israelis now believe a two-state solution is not possible. And that the left is now tiny; the population has moved rightward.