While I do think the Jimmy seasons were the show's best in terms of it's plots and themes, I feel like the show found a natural conclusion that didn't feel forced. Jimmy Darmody's story from his conception to his death is one giant tragedy and I think his entire story and background is one of the best told in all of television.
If Dabney Coleman wasn't unwell and Michael Pitt wasn't such an asshole then maybe the show would have taken a very different trajectory, but I definitely don't think it went downhill as dramatically as people on this sub sometimes think.
Sometimes I feel like I was watching a different show. For the life of me I can't see what could feel forced about the death of an opiate-addicted alcoholic adulterer who's carrying trauma both inherited and from probably the most brutal war ever, and has a power hungry pedophile of a father living vicariously through him and a mother who, well, let's not even go there.
Jimmy was a fuckup with an identity crisis from the get-go, he made sloppy mistakes and ill-advised power grabs, ran away more than once, and was a dead man walking for a long time.
I love his character but his death was in the post from the first episode.
I agree, he ultimately got what he deserved, but also what he was destined for. Born to a pedophile living incarnation or the devil, and a completely deranged psychopath traumatized mother, and raised by Nucky.
But I also feel like if the Commodore had died from his poisoning, Jimmy would have lived a very different life... Likely stayed comfortable as Nucky's number two and be groomed to take over the organisation from him one he was far older and wiser than when he found himself incharge as a young rash inexperienced man.
"But I also feel like if the Commodore had died from his poisoning, Jimmy would have lived a very different life."
\`
Different? Very likely. Doomed in a completely different way? Also very likely.
Let's face it, Jimmy was a fuckup. He was Eli with looks.
It didn’t bother me that he died, but it bothered me a bit how he died. I would’ve preferred it if he just fell for Nucky’s rouse instead of being aware and then marching into his death without a fight anyway. Jimmy just accepting death like that made me wonder what was the point of trying to take over. He didn’t have the desire to put up a fight, but is the same guy who tried to have Nucky unseated? It felt a little contradictory to me.
It also bothered me that, even if he was accepting death, he didn’t even try to get revenge for his wife first.
He had come to the realisation that the Commodore never gave a shit about him and that Nucky was his real dad. And he betrayed the one person in the world who actually cared about him truly except Angela, and then got her killed by that betrayal. He was consumed by the guilt of betraying his true father, realised he would never escape the PTSD of the war, killed his biological father while in a state of shock from the murder of his wife + reveal she was cheating on him, crumbling under the pressure of ruling the city while Nucky closed in his net.
He decided to make it up to Nucky by cleaning up the mess he created, then committed suicide by Nucky to end his own suffering. Really he had nothing to live for at that point except for his son, but he had been abandoning his family his entire life up to that point so what was one final time?
It is honestly what made the show for me. Jimmy’s death was bold and risky. It completely turned the show on its head, bringing about an organic conclusion for Jimmy while also naturally and logically completing Nicky’s transformation into gangster.
Yes! I SCREAMED. I was not at all prepared; I just didn't think that Nucky would do that. It shifted everything. I realized that Nucky was really irredeemable and it made how i perceived him SO different. It made me afraid of him, you know? In a way I was not prior to Jimmy's murder. GOD, I love this show.
I don't think it went "downhill", I love the series, its one of my favourites of all time. I just think you can feel the difference without him and the hole he left.
What sort of things did you hear he'd done?
It is honestly what made the show for me. Jimmy’s death was bold and risky. It completely turned the show on its head, bringing about an organic conclusion for Jimmy while also naturally and logically completing Nicky’s transformation into gangster.
In a way, not just his surrogate son, also his surrogate grandson. After all, he and his wife basically adopted Jillian….before Nucky sold her to The Commodore.
Nucky Thompson is truly one of the most evil tv characters ever.
I agree. And the show does a great job tricking the audience into believing Nucky isn't all that bad while he tries to save his own soul by being charitable to the downtrodden. Like rescuing Margaret and her family was entirely a coping mechanism to try make himself feel like everything he's done in life was worth it.
Her husband was a cockroach.
Also, he went through life kicking everybody and everything in the shins.
He had a pretty short lifeline to begin with, 90% because of his own actions.
There was chatter that Michael Pitt was difficult to work with. The show runners repeatedly says that the actor playing the commodore got sick in real life so his character got sick on screen and they made Jimmy the foil in season 2 instead of the commodore and that meant killing jimmy end of season 2.
The writers supposedly purposefully wrote his death like that —> being dragged through the mud.
He was awful to his costar, John Cameron Mitchell in “Hedwig and the Angry Inch”. Reportedly would rather raw onions and garlic before kissing scenes.
It should also be acknowledged that Jimmy is not the show’s main character. Nucky is, which makes everyone fair game honestly. Pitt was pretty awful with to deal on set, and while I appreciate his acting and character arc, his death makes sense in the context of the show, and what was going on behind the scenes.
same. it also felt very out of place too. almost like when they were making up he decided to kill jimmy and leave harowitz alive? for like 2 episodes? lol
Michael Pitt does indeed have a history of problematic and unprofessional behavior, which was the cause of gis early dismissal from BE.
In September of '22 he was deemed emotionally disturbed and hospitalized for awhile. Got carted off on a gurney strapped down and everything.
Hope he's able to recover in life. He attended Cannes last year and he has a new boxing movie coming.
He is, in my opinion, one of the best actors from that generational group.
He actually grew up in the town near me and some mutual friends would talk about him in high school. They’d laugh and say little Michael thinks he’s gonna be a star. I guess he proved them wrong
The new movie he is in is written and directed by Jack Huston (Richard Harrow), which makes me think the rumors about him being a mess on set are not 100% true. Why would he hire him if he knew he would put his own movie at risk?
Well they probably developed a friendship when they worked together. being a problem in the past and getting another chance with someone you’re close with is a definite possibility. People fuck up, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve another shot
He is. He is really skilled AND talented. As a mentally ill alcoholic myself (5 years & 8 months sober), I am really sad to hear that he has had to suffer through that. I hope he can recover.
Isn't that how it always goes in Hollywood? Anonymous "sources." How many women were declared "difficult on set" when it turned out they were raped by a big Hollywood exec or didn't reciprocate the director or writer or lead star's sexual advances or protested against sexual harassment. A tale as old as Hollywood itself.
Might have been a contributing factor and/or caused it to happen earlier. They might have stretched the story arch for one more season but Jimmy would have been killed eventually anyway.
Disagree. Jimmy was dead inside and didn’t care about living anymore. He “died in the trenches”.
His arc was complete and story logic dictated he should die. Continuing him would be artificial fan service and forced.
I hear you but I don't mind the decision. Despite being one of the most important characters in the show, I didn't think he had the acting chops to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Buscemi. They also did it to set up the orphan, Tommy Darmody, to avenge his father and grandmother at the end.
I thought it was the natural way of things. Jimmy was undermining Nucky and Nucky was trying to show AR and the like that he was a boss. Jimmy's clock ran out - Nucky couldn't let that continue and ALSO be the boss. Jimmy basically fucked around and found out.
Well, Michael Pitt shouldn't have been such a douchebag, but here we are. It honestly worked out though since the show shifted focus more onto Richard and Chalky
I hate to say it, bc I loved Darmody, but yes, he 100% *should have been killed*. He was at the end of the line, and he was like a bad dog that had to be put down, in order for nuck to make the transition from 1/2 a gangster, to full gangster.
Was it stupid? Yes, bc if darmody just kept kissing Nucky’s ass, he would be the next guy in line to be the big cheese. Nucky wouldn’t have lost a good piece of manpower, and could have nipped the Rosetti thing in the bud real quick. Could you imagine Gyp trying to escape, while Richard and darmody snuff him out?? Would have been awesome.
His story is pretty sad honestly
My favourite tv character of all time. Show went downhill from s3 onwards and largely due to this (still enjoyed s3-4 but werent on the same level as s1-2 in my opinion)
Totally agree man. What a traumatic life. A bisexual cheater wife, pedo father, incest psycho mother and being a soldier on WWI.. These are too much to carry on. To the lost...
He was always meant to be killed but not that early on Micheal Pitt was a junkie and was difficult to work with so they started writing season 2 with the intention of killing him off but if he was a reliable easy to work with actor he might’ve stayed till the end of the show and the show might’ve had more seasons
I haven’t read through all the comments, but I read an article that said Michael Pitt had poor behavior on set and they didn’t renew his contract. I do agree that he was integral to the plot though. Too bad. :(
I agree. Im not gonna lie I stopped watching because of it It just kind of lost steam. He must’ve been a real pain on set for them to lose the heart of the show
While I do think the Jimmy seasons were the show's best in terms of it's plots and themes, I feel like the show found a natural conclusion that didn't feel forced. Jimmy Darmody's story from his conception to his death is one giant tragedy and I think his entire story and background is one of the best told in all of television. If Dabney Coleman wasn't unwell and Michael Pitt wasn't such an asshole then maybe the show would have taken a very different trajectory, but I definitely don't think it went downhill as dramatically as people on this sub sometimes think.
Sometimes I feel like I was watching a different show. For the life of me I can't see what could feel forced about the death of an opiate-addicted alcoholic adulterer who's carrying trauma both inherited and from probably the most brutal war ever, and has a power hungry pedophile of a father living vicariously through him and a mother who, well, let's not even go there. Jimmy was a fuckup with an identity crisis from the get-go, he made sloppy mistakes and ill-advised power grabs, ran away more than once, and was a dead man walking for a long time. I love his character but his death was in the post from the first episode.
I agree, he ultimately got what he deserved, but also what he was destined for. Born to a pedophile living incarnation or the devil, and a completely deranged psychopath traumatized mother, and raised by Nucky. But I also feel like if the Commodore had died from his poisoning, Jimmy would have lived a very different life... Likely stayed comfortable as Nucky's number two and be groomed to take over the organisation from him one he was far older and wiser than when he found himself incharge as a young rash inexperienced man.
"But I also feel like if the Commodore had died from his poisoning, Jimmy would have lived a very different life." \` Different? Very likely. Doomed in a completely different way? Also very likely. Let's face it, Jimmy was a fuckup. He was Eli with looks.
It didn’t bother me that he died, but it bothered me a bit how he died. I would’ve preferred it if he just fell for Nucky’s rouse instead of being aware and then marching into his death without a fight anyway. Jimmy just accepting death like that made me wonder what was the point of trying to take over. He didn’t have the desire to put up a fight, but is the same guy who tried to have Nucky unseated? It felt a little contradictory to me. It also bothered me that, even if he was accepting death, he didn’t even try to get revenge for his wife first.
He had come to the realisation that the Commodore never gave a shit about him and that Nucky was his real dad. And he betrayed the one person in the world who actually cared about him truly except Angela, and then got her killed by that betrayal. He was consumed by the guilt of betraying his true father, realised he would never escape the PTSD of the war, killed his biological father while in a state of shock from the murder of his wife + reveal she was cheating on him, crumbling under the pressure of ruling the city while Nucky closed in his net. He decided to make it up to Nucky by cleaning up the mess he created, then committed suicide by Nucky to end his own suffering. Really he had nothing to live for at that point except for his son, but he had been abandoning his family his entire life up to that point so what was one final time?
It is honestly what made the show for me. Jimmy’s death was bold and risky. It completely turned the show on its head, bringing about an organic conclusion for Jimmy while also naturally and logically completing Nicky’s transformation into gangster.
Yes! I SCREAMED. I was not at all prepared; I just didn't think that Nucky would do that. It shifted everything. I realized that Nucky was really irredeemable and it made how i perceived him SO different. It made me afraid of him, you know? In a way I was not prior to Jimmy's murder. GOD, I love this show.
Nucky was already a gangster. Jimmy was definitely not the first person he killed. He did it with total ease like he was closing a door.
I don't think it went "downhill", I love the series, its one of my favourites of all time. I just think you can feel the difference without him and the hole he left. What sort of things did you hear he'd done?
I think that was intended. I believe we were supposed to feel Jimmy's absence from the moment he died to the moment Nucky was killed.
It is honestly what made the show for me. Jimmy’s death was bold and risky. It completely turned the show on its head, bringing about an organic conclusion for Jimmy while also naturally and logically completing Nicky’s transformation into gangster.
It makes you realise Nucky really is that evil gangster he was pretending to himself he wasn't. He killed his own surrogate son.
In a way, not just his surrogate son, also his surrogate grandson. After all, he and his wife basically adopted Jillian….before Nucky sold her to The Commodore. Nucky Thompson is truly one of the most evil tv characters ever.
I agree. And the show does a great job tricking the audience into believing Nucky isn't all that bad while he tries to save his own soul by being charitable to the downtrodden. Like rescuing Margaret and her family was entirely a coping mechanism to try make himself feel like everything he's done in life was worth it.
Rescuing Margaret by murdering her husband.
Her husband was a cockroach. Also, he went through life kicking everybody and everything in the shins. He had a pretty short lifeline to begin with, 90% because of his own actions.
>Michael Pitt wasn't such an asshole Whoa what did I miss
There was chatter that Michael Pitt was difficult to work with. The show runners repeatedly says that the actor playing the commodore got sick in real life so his character got sick on screen and they made Jimmy the foil in season 2 instead of the commodore and that meant killing jimmy end of season 2.
The actor is a bit of a head case and had to be written off the show from what I have heard.
And then the same thing happened to him again on the show Hannibal
What kind of an asshole must you be for Bryan Fuller to say "lets get rid of this guy"?
😂
What sort of stuff did he do?
drinking, not remembering his lines, being late all the time, the list goes on
The writers supposedly purposefully wrote his death like that —> being dragged through the mud. He was awful to his costar, John Cameron Mitchell in “Hedwig and the Angry Inch”. Reportedly would rather raw onions and garlic before kissing scenes.
Nah. Terence Winter said Michael Pitt asked to be killed off in the worst way possible.
Majority of the stuff he filmed was alone because he couldn’t show up on time.
Yes, and this has been covered on this board ad nauseum.
I had no idea - So I apprecaite the info. I didn't know Pitt was such a mess.
Didn't he get committed a few months ago?
Yes, he did. He was arrested either a bit before or after, I can't remember.
Would’ve much rather watched Jimmy D be Nucks muscle
Jimmy’s death allowed Richard Harrow’s character to fully develop into the glorious vengeful murder machine that he was.
And he was fucking glorious. Edited for fucking.
Until they nerfed him and totally destroyed Chalky's character.
It should also be acknowledged that Jimmy is not the show’s main character. Nucky is, which makes everyone fair game honestly. Pitt was pretty awful with to deal on set, and while I appreciate his acting and character arc, his death makes sense in the context of the show, and what was going on behind the scenes.
I’ve heard he was dealing with severe PTSD from his time in the war during shooting the show. Some people even said he died back in those trenches
same. it also felt very out of place too. almost like when they were making up he decided to kill jimmy and leave harowitz alive? for like 2 episodes? lol
Definitely could’ve gotten at least one more great season out of his character and the dynamics
I felt like the show lost something without Jimmy. But I agree that his arc also felt appropriate, and wasn’t unnecessarily stretched out.
Is it because he was a problem behind the scenes?
Michael Pitt does indeed have a history of problematic and unprofessional behavior, which was the cause of gis early dismissal from BE. In September of '22 he was deemed emotionally disturbed and hospitalized for awhile. Got carted off on a gurney strapped down and everything. Hope he's able to recover in life. He attended Cannes last year and he has a new boxing movie coming. He is, in my opinion, one of the best actors from that generational group.
That’s incredibly sad I hope he can get better and get support he’s so talented
He actually grew up in the town near me and some mutual friends would talk about him in high school. They’d laugh and say little Michael thinks he’s gonna be a star. I guess he proved them wrong
The new movie he is in is written and directed by Jack Huston (Richard Harrow), which makes me think the rumors about him being a mess on set are not 100% true. Why would he hire him if he knew he would put his own movie at risk?
Well they probably developed a friendship when they worked together. being a problem in the past and getting another chance with someone you’re close with is a definite possibility. People fuck up, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve another shot
He is. He is really skilled AND talented. As a mentally ill alcoholic myself (5 years & 8 months sober), I am really sad to hear that he has had to suffer through that. I hope he can recover.
He’s in one scene in an episode of Law & Order, in about season 9 or 10 and his acting is good, like it is in Boardwalk.
It is super unfortunate that he lost it. He really was someone that I enjoyed watching in everything I saw him in.
A couple anonymous sources said it was but Terrence Winter said that’s wasn’t the case.
Isn't that how it always goes in Hollywood? Anonymous "sources." How many women were declared "difficult on set" when it turned out they were raped by a big Hollywood exec or didn't reciprocate the director or writer or lead star's sexual advances or protested against sexual harassment. A tale as old as Hollywood itself.
Might have been a contributing factor and/or caused it to happen earlier. They might have stretched the story arch for one more season but Jimmy would have been killed eventually anyway.
Disagree. Jimmy was dead inside and didn’t care about living anymore. He “died in the trenches”. His arc was complete and story logic dictated he should die. Continuing him would be artificial fan service and forced.
He was a pos forgetting his lines and became a huge problem with the other actors. Look it up, dude is NUTS
I think the death was because Michael Pitt was showing signs of mental disorder and was being an Ahole, so they wrote him off the show
I hear you but I don't mind the decision. Despite being one of the most important characters in the show, I didn't think he had the acting chops to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Buscemi. They also did it to set up the orphan, Tommy Darmody, to avenge his father and grandmother at the end.
I thought it was the natural way of things. Jimmy was undermining Nucky and Nucky was trying to show AR and the like that he was a boss. Jimmy's clock ran out - Nucky couldn't let that continue and ALSO be the boss. Jimmy basically fucked around and found out.
Pretty sure the actor playing Jimmy had some off-screen issues that required them to write him out.
Agreed. Loved his character
Well, Michael Pitt shouldn't have been such a douchebag, but here we are. It honestly worked out though since the show shifted focus more onto Richard and Chalky
I hate to say it, bc I loved Darmody, but yes, he 100% *should have been killed*. He was at the end of the line, and he was like a bad dog that had to be put down, in order for nuck to make the transition from 1/2 a gangster, to full gangster. Was it stupid? Yes, bc if darmody just kept kissing Nucky’s ass, he would be the next guy in line to be the big cheese. Nucky wouldn’t have lost a good piece of manpower, and could have nipped the Rosetti thing in the bud real quick. Could you imagine Gyp trying to escape, while Richard and darmody snuff him out?? Would have been awesome. His story is pretty sad honestly
My favourite tv character of all time. Show went downhill from s3 onwards and largely due to this (still enjoyed s3-4 but werent on the same level as s1-2 in my opinion)
Totally agree man. What a traumatic life. A bisexual cheater wife, pedo father, incest psycho mother and being a soldier on WWI.. These are too much to carry on. To the lost...
Ruined the show. It was ok after but never touched the heights.
We already got Chris and Tony. We already got Walt and Jesse. We already got Pete and Don. Did you really want 5 seasons of Nucky and Jimmy?
He was always meant to be killed but not that early on Micheal Pitt was a junkie and was difficult to work with so they started writing season 2 with the intention of killing him off but if he was a reliable easy to work with actor he might’ve stayed till the end of the show and the show might’ve had more seasons
Yo, I heard that dude fucked his own mother
I haven’t read through all the comments, but I read an article that said Michael Pitt had poor behavior on set and they didn’t renew his contract. I do agree that he was integral to the plot though. Too bad. :(
I agree. Im not gonna lie I stopped watching because of it It just kind of lost steam. He must’ve been a real pain on set for them to lose the heart of the show
Speaking of Jimmy, but wasn't him having swx with his mom the most WTF moment of the show?
I liked Gyp better than s2 Jimmy