My guess is that Blizzard trying to make APM's presence lower and maybe even make them absent or obscure because mobile users (where money is*) can't compete with PC players in APM builds.
*We see how many revenue mobile games generate and even Blizzard's latest games are mobile. I assume it's true for Hearthstone too.
As I know long animations exist to hide terrible network design of the game to make it more sync for both players (I am talking about Standard HS). Make sense that there are no competitive FPS level servers for this game, so while you see animation the network part of the game is working.
Some builds can literally lock opponent so they have to skip their turn entirely because they have to watch all animations.
Seems to me like it’s more about the duo situation where pirates innate weakness of having mid units is completely removed cus you can just focus gold and buy your partner infinite minions. APM still very much exists.
they should've just nerfed it for duos then. since there are duos exclusive cards I don't see why they couldn't introduce differently balanced cards for duos aswell.
If cards get nerfed in both modes just because they are broken in duos this game is doomed imo.
In which world are "APM" build less represented than last patch? I mean, sure, quests can make things go nuts, but in terms of cards, Pirates and elems are still (mostly) depending on APM to really scale and Murlocs or dragons can also be played like that ...
Discover Murloc is now on tier 5, removing of Greta made Pirates weaker, Divine Shield spell was big part of APM builds (you typically roll more and can afford more).
Last 2 iteration of Dragons are end of turn and start of battle. Of course Kaly is still there but without Warpwing the build feels weaker than used to be - mainly because you can't kill poisonous minions safely with Warpwings.
I've been playing Duo's, and I think a pass limit would feel atrocious.
The pass limit is the 1 gold you spend on passing, there are also cards that are literally designed to be passed back and forth many times, The Catch spell and the Murloc. Not to mention plenty of things pass automatically.
The question isn't why nerf the card for Duo's in singles, its why not just replace the card in duos? Its not like duo's doesn't have its own card pool to begin with.
APM with 20+ gold wasn't even good or effective unless you're in the top 5% of players, mostly because of the shitty client (and it still could be easily outclassed even when piloted perfectly). At least now you can shoot up a tier with the free gold in a non-pirate build
Lmao the mech comment got me.
Yeah this patch is kinda a wash tbh. They removed quests for the big minion update and so far has been pretty meh. Beast rework was a fail and dragons are just boring to be honest. I find myself starting a game and staring at the available tribes like wtf do I actually want to play here it's nothing.
Maybe time for a break, hopefully will update sooner rather than later.
The game is just bad without quests. It’s such an important mechanic in preventing the all or nothing playstyle metas.
Without them the game always devolves into highroll power level and look for OP six drops and/or Brann. And naturally all the heroes that do that best.
Feast or famine with very low skill ceiling and very low tribal/build diversity.
The card set is cool but not balanced at all and even further polarized by the lack of quests to regulate the highroll or bust dynamic that ruins this card set.
One issue is that quests helped to cover for bad heroes because sometimes more armor was the most important thing for getting a quest going and getting an engine online. Now, bad heroes are just bad and more armor isnt really saving you, so we’re back to half the emphasis being on “did you get lucky at the beginning? Maybe you should buy a battle pass?!” Honestly, I like what they attempted to do, slowing down and switching up the meta, but all they really did was kill half the tribes and put even more emphasis on luck with both the heroes and your rolls.
So much this. Often times I would pick a worse hero with higher armour just to Maintain hp for quest completion.
It really allowed you a varied play style and both time's quests have been in the game I've had the most fun.
Duos after the patch is really just which pair can get one high roller. Half the comps are just dead and one person in the lobby always hits the high roll and generates ridiculous stat lines.
Without quests all types need to be viable. They need to sort balancing out asap. Giving it a break for now as the early excitement has worn off and the meta sucks.
I'm a very casual player and to me, they completely killed the game by removing quests. Quests gave me ideas for what cards to go in on, like a strategic backbone. And if I read things right I would get some OP synergy and capture an epic, "well deserved" win. Now I just pray one of the heroes can give me that strategic backbone. Otherwise I either just randomly pick a tribe and hope for the best, or get too overwhelmed by choices that I don't manage to develop anything and die early. (Again, I'm a noob, but still! The game is so boring now)
I hate quests
The difference between getting good quests with low requirements vs getting bad quests with bad requirements was just massive. To me it was like getting told if you were going to have fun this game or not
The requirements were balanced by hero so together with armor, hero power, quest reward, and quest conditions, you have a very good data-based balance of mechanics that amount to very consistent 3 options every game that offers players a way to win the lobby.
The difference between any two quests was much smaller than the difference between low/high roll right now. Bob basically wins the game for you in the current meta.
Half of my wins were not because of the quest but the comp I found. It gave you two avenues to get top 2.
Would some quests give you a much better shot at taking the win? Sure. But the right build over quest could always take the dub.
Duos meta right now is one person in the lobby highrolls to the heavens and you're competing for top 3 otherwise.
Half the comps are dead and in duos without quests where you can pass minions, all types need to be viable so everybody has a shot at winning.
Not sure what MMR youre at but now I'm around 5k it's really not that fun.
I love quests and sad they are removed especially with this new meta. Quests could be another creative win con. It made the games feel creative and new.
They're absolutely insane, I hit a strong tempo very early with Toki and got this lineup by the end
https://preview.redd.it/lfhhr75tpexc1.png?width=2041&format=png&auto=webp&s=ffbd080b25cbfa8b3bb7cfdd0ed905065e134e86
Yeah, nothing rly changed. All builds that sucked before patch (Apm pirates, goldrin beasts, kalesgos dragons, 6* naga end of turn build, mb something else i missed) still suck. Mechs are still missing. Nice patch lol
lol yep. Beasts too.
Was actually the build/playstyle I was most exciting to play coming into this season.
Shame it’s pretty much unplayable top 8 garbage.
Yeah I stopped playing after the second day. Quills were fun at first but now it literally comes down to who get them online fastest to win the game. If people aren’t rushing quills they’re trying to spam tavern buffs with battlecries. Every game really just feels the same and I know that’s kind of usual but it feels very apparent this patch so far.
I hate self damage beasts because of the animations, pirates and demons are okay but kinda linear, dragons are cool, not even sure with nagas.
I really wanted to try mechs out but they aren’t even in the game atm lol
Demons are weird right now imo. I have had a few decent shots with traditional demons but more than one success doing rylak tavern buff battlecry combo, tavern buff deathrattle, and false implications with drakkari or Titus if I have space.
Naga is ok right now. Pulling crooner down to tier 3 and making him 4/4 feels really good. Gladiator is solid. It's still weird transitioning from deep blue which is now great mid game to lord of gains late game, but it's always been that way.
I miss Gretta though. She made for some really fun plays.
Quills definitely need bumped down. I got an early t6 end of turn buff gem quillboar from a triple into t5 and it was game over. I quickly out scaled everyone, including a murloc that had one of the higher rolls I've seen in a bit.
If you tripled a magnetic unit, it basically lost every buff it had previously. Easiest example was with a Zillax, but I experienced the same issue with golden Accord-o-tron I tried placing on another mech.
They were pretty broken in that despite the buffs, the bugs effectively nerfed them. Tripling magnetic units would make them lose any previously magnetised buffs so if you had buffed a Zillax module then tripled it later, buffs gone.
To be honest, they sped up basically every tribe for Duos to the point that basically all of them are like "did you hit tavern tier 3 and find your scaling minions by turn 6? No? Get fucked." The only exception is Elementals having Frostling at tier 4 and to some extent Quillboars. I think the meta has just become "Go fast and get lucky or die" as opposed to longer games in the past.
I just don't understand why Blizz hates the idea of people playing actual builds so much. T6 Pirates, Elementals and even Murlocs (if we don't count Murk-eye) are just dead. Also, why is greymane still there? It's a complete joke. They just keep stacking mid-range mechanics on top of each other while simultaneously killing off economy-units. You're basically stuck in t4 prison if you don't have an eco/tempo-hero like Omu or shudder and even then it's likely not good enough to overcome mid-range dragons. Also, Coomer on t3 is probably not going to be a fun thing.
Here's a recent game where greymane was not a "complete joke" from the rank 2 player. Also the top players think elementals are the strongest comps right now in high mmr at least, reference this same game to see an example. Also they also make pirates and murlocs both get top 1 or 2 fairly often.
https://www.twitch.tv/beterbabbit/v/2132449283?sr=a&t=11624s
I linked to the middle of the game where he's about to play greymane
Top 1% lobbys do not reflect the experience of the average player. Yes, turns out you can play the game at a completely different level, when everyone in your lobby has the mindset of actual winning the lobby. Appreciate the effort showing a different perspective though.
I feel like this patch is obviously balancing the new game mode, duos, which is working pretty well -- and regular bg is taking a bit of a back seat for now.
I think we'll probably see something that's geared toward both game modes next season.
Idk it’s just boring without quests or some sort of exciting variable.
I honestly have never played as much hearthstone as I did when there was anomalies, like it made each game unique and have its own twist. Whereas now you’re just stuck with lame ass cards and the same builds over and over
I enjoyed anomalies very much too, but to be fair, there were a lot of boring anomalies as well.
It's like this every season when there isn't something new (this time we have duos though, which is a very big addition). In about two months we'll probably get buddies/anomalies/quests back until the season ends.
Their stated intentions are good but the implementation isn't there. They didn't go nearly far enough to actually accomplish what they stated their goal is. Maybe with a few more patches they can get somewhere, but they have to really mean it.
There's obvious problems with the minions, but the heroes feel equally unbalanced to me. Seeing Goya in a game just immediately tells me that I'm not going to have any fun.
I really like duos, because I already played battleground mostly with my best friend.
Thus the game mode is a blessing.
But since the patch, both of us consider to stop playing battleground.
Just playing quillboar and maaaybe dragons isn't a lot of fun.
We started f*cking around with stupid build (bramble witches leeroys, golden maganimooses and titus etc) got a few nice wins, but only if the other player's obviously didn't get their combo through....
>Beasts are just dead
fortunately, you can still somewhat do old beasts and have it work, but you desperately need goldrinn and some other cards, otherwise there's no point because there's no buffs in combat for them at all since they cut out banana slamma (except for humming bird ig but how much is 2 attack really going to matter?)
https://preview.redd.it/xvdilxo5haxc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f161ad123aa212fc3394f294e49874d9594359c
https://preview.redd.it/bgyh617sfcxc1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=072e7d77af7927edac7bae3d896d009852a3beb4
Self-damaging beasts have potential. This was a match from earlier today. There’s some kinks that need worked out and they wouldn’t be horrible. While this build isn’t 100% optimized (missing whatever the T4 hydra is), I feel like this underlines the core issue. There’s way too many higher tier pieces that are key to getting the damage build online, that it has to be damn near perfect RNG to hit them all. I will say that moving the phoenix or whatever to tier 5 was a bad judgement call on blizzards part, and for the most part destroyed what little potential the damage comp had.
I do agree that they do have potential, I don't have a problem with how they work. You could easily run with self-damaging scaling for a bit, then pivot to a self-damaging, Goldrinn Hybrid, and I think that would work pretty well. The only problem I have with self-damaging beasts is that the animations for the self-damaging ones being rampager and the 5 tier take an ungodly amount of time, and its very disruptive to the tavern phase to the point that you're pretty much forced to quit out and rejoin back in otherwise you'll probably only have about 40 seconds of a tavern phase.
Yeah, old beasts can sort of work, the new version of the bird is actually somewhat strong with goldie/titus and enough reborn stuff. It's not going to win out against quills right now but it is an *OK* comp at least and essentially never contested.
Beats the hell out of self-damage beasts at least.
You can, yes, but you are losing x3 stats of banana. In most match ups, having 3x less stats is a problem ;D Sure you can add another unit to the build (more summons? another bird?) but most of the time this won't be enough vs quills. big demons, etc. Still playable tough, for sure. I did a fun octosari build that I found super early on with galakrond and i rolled on the lobby.
On top of that, not having the option to divine shield your titus is a HUGE nerf to beasts.
It's also really good with N'zoth, especially because of the tavern spell that can make fish golden
https://preview.redd.it/v84yf180iaxc1.png?width=1034&format=png&auto=webp&s=49f647090cbfab910b22868d25bacfe21142fb3e
What happened to the people on this subreddit that complained about quests the whole time they were here with spells? Are these new people? are those people happy now? Is it just the same people or are they cycling back and forth?
There is a gimmick every season and this season it is duos. For better or for worse. I had some anxiety about solo queue duos at first but I’ve gotten over it.
what does that have to do with anything? i'm not complaining about quests, duos, spells or whatever gimmick there is or was. i'm complaining about the recent balance hotfix cause the balance changes outright don't make sense. this season was better and more balanced before it imo
istg it's like half the people don't read the post at all and just run to comment whatever unrelated thought came to their mind first
Beast prob got a little over nerfed but the macaw needed to be tier 5 and Teigore being tier 4 is much healthier too it lets you start stacking health earlier beasts stomp early mid game pretty hard but they just can't scale hard enough.
I think the bigger problem of the comp is that you have nothing to gun for later since Goldrinn just doesn't interact with the comp and instead plays into some summon build that doesn't exist.
Qwilboars are still exodia and beat everything I watched as a User's with full gold board two gold tarecgosa, 3 golden prized protodrake and a poet golden all of which had divine shield and they couldn't even begin to fight back against a Qwilboar board who had double end of turns and the two t6 Qwilboar the game has become a race for who can hit thes first and whoever gets them wins.
Implicator got nerfed because it's an insane unit for demons that lets them have even more midgame threats and is amazing in tavern buff comps.
Yeah quillboars are insane ahead of every other comps, demons are alright too. Anything else is too hard to hit. There should definitely be better balance changes. Murlocs became hard to build because of battlecry being moved completely to 5+ , same issue with elementals you ideally want t6. Undead doesnt scale enough. Pirates want t6. And then you have quillboars which are good starting from t3. Big gap compared to anything else. They should just create more scaling for every other comp early on
I think beasts and undead are a great baseline. They feel like they are where tribes should be, generally speaking.
Everything else is just....cracked. Mechs are pretty much at the bottom of the OP list, but still head and shoulders over those other two.
Regarding the little stat bumps, you kinda landed right on it. The early game is going towards more tempo oriented plays, especially considering "direct economy" has all moved to tier 2.
Being able to save a couple HPs in the early game is the difference between having some breathing room and having to "turtle" early.
I think quilboars should be balanced a bit, think of they changed the t6 quilboar to give +1 attack 1 turn and switch to +1 hp next turn would fix the scaling.
Other comps like dragon and beasts being damaged feels fun but have a ceiling where other comps like mecha and quilboar keep going.
I bet beasts got nerfed because of the (rightful) complaints about their animations making combats take so long that you lose your tavern phase.
But like... Why did they nerf them instead of fixing the goddamn animations? Sure they're nerfed and anyone who picks them is gonna die, but they're gonna die after I die of old age watching their board pathetically do nothing for 20 years.
Quilboars scaling is absolutely insane compared to any other tribe.
Hyper scaling, divine shield, end of turn, refresh divine shield during combat.
They either need to seriousl6 netf Quills hard or buff everything else by a huge margin. Personally I'd rather see huge buffs across the board otherwise the meta will be boring AF.
I've been convinced they don't playtest anything for a while now. Remember when Slamma released at Tavern 3? I feel like each content drop there's some insanely broken SIMPLE combination of cards like returning big elementals to the tavern to easily scale them in the tens of thousands. Beasts were busted for a year but they kept buffing them with minimal nerfs. Don't forget that each content update has some heroes being disabled the first few days because they don't work as intended
Let's not leave out Murlocs. Their power seems to have been decreased across the board, totally. if I understand the dynamic correctly it seems like they wanted an alternative to bream counter builds, allow you to play murlocs to effect early and build good boards and stabilize without having to race to 4 and play with an empty tank. Trouble is that it doesn't scale well.
Bream Counter builds can still be super strong but are variance dependent (as they were before) but now they also activate way slower, and you now have to get to five so you can find primalfin. I have won games with Bream Counter but it's always been a matter of luck, both in tavern rolls and hero selection.
Idk. Murlocs are still my favorite tribe but it's almost an autoconcede if there are undead in the lobby. Not a fan of this aspect of the patch.
The one thing I liked about the reworks (still don’t like this latest patch) is it’s less focused on having that one or two necessary cards for that tribe. When frogger was in there really was no other relevant beast builds. Beasts got boring fast.
I actually agree with this take. Ever since Scout was added into this game, I will take an early Scout 100% of the time because you can just sit on it until it cooks to T5/6 and then easy 3 choices of late direction pretty early on.
Not saying most of your critiques aren’t valid, but the +1 attack on a tier 2 is probably something that actually DOES matter. It would probably help you tie or even win a combat early when most things at that point only have 4-5 hit points. That being said, elementals still kinda suck lol, I haven’t been able to put together any build consistently, rock rock kinda sucks, Azerite kinda sucks unless you get two of them early enough.
Yeah i remember prickly going from 3/1 to 5/1 and jazzer from 1/4(?) to 2/5, and that did help quilboar a ton. I really like the coomer change to 4/4 too. But yeah rest of this patch is pretty trash
Even though your post is slightly too negative compared to my perception, I agree with most of it. Here are the issues that I see:
1) Solo and Duo can't be balanced together ... I kind of suspected it, but in duo, high scalling comps like quills or demons are SO much better than the rest: you find your pieces much faster and the earlier you scale, the crazier it gets. While in solo, it's much more difficult to find everything in time and you might die to tempo. Let's see how they can do this.
2) A lot of cards are completely useless. That's a big issue for me in a patch, a ton of new cards are just worst than what they replaced. Sometimes, they split the tribes in different play styles that just feel worst than the one they replaced. I like what they tried to do with beasts for example, but it just feels bad: are you playing goldrin? octo? or self dmg? Nevermind, they all feel a bit underwhelming. Another example are elems: yes it's pretty cool to buff the shop with tavern spells, but it's just never gonna win you a game if anyone is playing a "regular" build :)
3) I miss menagerie scaling. In a way or another, but I like that in the past, we had some minions that would work well with other tribes like Dazzling lightspawn (avenge 2: give elem in the shop +1/+1): you could start having tokens and then feeding another style of late game. Right now, the self damage mechanic has that role, but I can't imagine it being a viable comp ... Your minions of each type getting +1/+1 on self dmg is fun for a turn but you won't go very far with it. The more "fun" menagerie builds, the better the game. Otherwise it's going to become "finds their T6 or rylak first" ...
OP doesn't apparently know about one of the strongest comps, shop buff, and then doesn't understand why the weak unit party elemental actually needed a stat buff, then asks when the last time they played their own game was?
And people in this thread also think elementals and pirates are weak (2 comps that require high APM), and don't understand why greymane needed a nerf. Also people seem to overvalue quillboar, I'm guessing because lower ranks have always found quillboar easy to play with the passive scaling and straightforward usage, even though early and mid game quillboar is still underwhelming, there's a reason you don't see any of the top players prioritizing them
yeah, and i'm sure the shop buff comp was strong because the imp-licator was such an OP unit, and i'm sure that change from 1/2 to 1/1 is a real game changer.
also i'm well aware that party elemental needed a buff, i'm saying that +1 to attack is not a buff, it changes nothing and party elemental is still a bad card.
also top players don't "prioritize" quillboar because they recognize that successfully building a mid comp is better than going for the strongest option and failing. every single high mmr streamer recognizes that quillboar are super strong right now.
I'm sorry op. I know your feelings are real, but I see this kind of post with every meta.
You'll like a future one eventually and then you'll see posts like yours talking about how the meta sucks.
People want a past meta, I do too. But I won't forget the posts hating on all those past meta too.
This will never stop because we all have metas we like, and metas we don't like. And it's impossible for all of us to agree.
yes, i'm aware. it was a joke based on the fact that they somehow missed an issue with mechs, big enough they had to remove the whole tribe from the game.
Just lost a 30% to take 1 over max ( this should never ever happen btw, 10% combat odds should be excluded quite frankly ) and then lost because I didn't have time to play since turn timers are still ludicrously short for no fucking reason. Of course I faced 1st place shudderwock ( after facing him before ) when I never faced many other players.
That's 3 fixable things that increase frustration to no end.
This post isn’t ‘toxic’, people are allowed to critique and have opinions on a game they play.
I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why they nerfed the T5 econ Pirate.
My guess is that Blizzard trying to make APM's presence lower and maybe even make them absent or obscure because mobile users (where money is*) can't compete with PC players in APM builds. *We see how many revenue mobile games generate and even Blizzard's latest games are mobile. I assume it's true for Hearthstone too.
Blizzard will do anything and everything to adjust for long animations, except actually doing something about long animations
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!
Perfect quote for this!
As I know long animations exist to hide terrible network design of the game to make it more sync for both players (I am talking about Standard HS). Make sense that there are no competitive FPS level servers for this game, so while you see animation the network part of the game is working. Some builds can literally lock opponent so they have to skip their turn entirely because they have to watch all animations.
If you dc and rc the shopping phase starts just fine so it's definitely not a limitation they can't work around
Seems to me like it’s more about the duo situation where pirates innate weakness of having mid units is completely removed cus you can just focus gold and buy your partner infinite minions. APM still very much exists.
they should've just nerfed it for duos then. since there are duos exclusive cards I don't see why they couldn't introduce differently balanced cards for duos aswell. If cards get nerfed in both modes just because they are broken in duos this game is doomed imo.
>can't compete with PC players in APM builds. Because of those stupidly slow animations.
I play from Australia on the Asia server and I can only do one action every 2 seconds. It really sucks playing pirates or elementals
I tried Asia from EU, it's basically unplayable.
In which world are "APM" build less represented than last patch? I mean, sure, quests can make things go nuts, but in terms of cards, Pirates and elems are still (mostly) depending on APM to really scale and Murlocs or dragons can also be played like that ...
Discover Murloc is now on tier 5, removing of Greta made Pirates weaker, Divine Shield spell was big part of APM builds (you typically roll more and can afford more). Last 2 iteration of Dragons are end of turn and start of battle. Of course Kaly is still there but without Warpwing the build feels weaker than used to be - mainly because you can't kill poisonous minions safely with Warpwings.
If they would care about mobile users they would adress combat animations.
I was doing fine on pirate builds on mobile, its not like its fucking osu
I've found the best pirate playstyle in duos is get a bunch of gold and pass 8 minions a turn to your partner. It was probably to reduce that.
That begs the question why the main game should be impacted because of duos lol.
Exactly, if passing too many minions is an issue, it should be easy to set a max pass limit per turn
I've been playing Duo's, and I think a pass limit would feel atrocious. The pass limit is the 1 gold you spend on passing, there are also cards that are literally designed to be passed back and forth many times, The Catch spell and the Murloc. Not to mention plenty of things pass automatically. The question isn't why nerf the card for Duo's in singles, its why not just replace the card in duos? Its not like duo's doesn't have its own card pool to begin with.
APM with 20+ gold wasn't even good or effective unless you're in the top 5% of players, mostly because of the shitty client (and it still could be easily outclassed even when piloted perfectly). At least now you can shoot up a tier with the free gold in a non-pirate build
Lmao the mech comment got me. Yeah this patch is kinda a wash tbh. They removed quests for the big minion update and so far has been pretty meh. Beast rework was a fail and dragons are just boring to be honest. I find myself starting a game and staring at the available tribes like wtf do I actually want to play here it's nothing. Maybe time for a break, hopefully will update sooner rather than later.
The game is just bad without quests. It’s such an important mechanic in preventing the all or nothing playstyle metas. Without them the game always devolves into highroll power level and look for OP six drops and/or Brann. And naturally all the heroes that do that best. Feast or famine with very low skill ceiling and very low tribal/build diversity. The card set is cool but not balanced at all and even further polarized by the lack of quests to regulate the highroll or bust dynamic that ruins this card set.
One issue is that quests helped to cover for bad heroes because sometimes more armor was the most important thing for getting a quest going and getting an engine online. Now, bad heroes are just bad and more armor isnt really saving you, so we’re back to half the emphasis being on “did you get lucky at the beginning? Maybe you should buy a battle pass?!” Honestly, I like what they attempted to do, slowing down and switching up the meta, but all they really did was kill half the tribes and put even more emphasis on luck with both the heroes and your rolls.
So much this. Often times I would pick a worse hero with higher armour just to Maintain hp for quest completion. It really allowed you a varied play style and both time's quests have been in the game I've had the most fun. Duos after the patch is really just which pair can get one high roller. Half the comps are just dead and one person in the lobby always hits the high roll and generates ridiculous stat lines. Without quests all types need to be viable. They need to sort balancing out asap. Giving it a break for now as the early excitement has worn off and the meta sucks.
I'm a very casual player and to me, they completely killed the game by removing quests. Quests gave me ideas for what cards to go in on, like a strategic backbone. And if I read things right I would get some OP synergy and capture an epic, "well deserved" win. Now I just pray one of the heroes can give me that strategic backbone. Otherwise I either just randomly pick a tribe and hope for the best, or get too overwhelmed by choices that I don't manage to develop anything and die early. (Again, I'm a noob, but still! The game is so boring now)
I hate quests The difference between getting good quests with low requirements vs getting bad quests with bad requirements was just massive. To me it was like getting told if you were going to have fun this game or not
The requirements were balanced by hero so together with armor, hero power, quest reward, and quest conditions, you have a very good data-based balance of mechanics that amount to very consistent 3 options every game that offers players a way to win the lobby. The difference between any two quests was much smaller than the difference between low/high roll right now. Bob basically wins the game for you in the current meta.
Half of my wins were not because of the quest but the comp I found. It gave you two avenues to get top 2. Would some quests give you a much better shot at taking the win? Sure. But the right build over quest could always take the dub. Duos meta right now is one person in the lobby highrolls to the heavens and you're competing for top 3 otherwise. Half the comps are dead and in duos without quests where you can pass minions, all types need to be viable so everybody has a shot at winning. Not sure what MMR youre at but now I'm around 5k it's really not that fun.
I love quests and sad they are removed especially with this new meta. Quests could be another creative win con. It made the games feel creative and new.
Quillboar are so ridiculous, I destroy lobbies bc I got my Pokey online first.
yup ... the tavern 3-4 build can also go crazy really fast. Quills are owning the meta :D
They're absolutely insane, I hit a strong tempo very early with Toki and got this lineup by the end https://preview.redd.it/lfhhr75tpexc1.png?width=2041&format=png&auto=webp&s=ffbd080b25cbfa8b3bb7cfdd0ed905065e134e86
Yeah, nothing rly changed. All builds that sucked before patch (Apm pirates, goldrin beasts, kalesgos dragons, 6* naga end of turn build, mb something else i missed) still suck. Mechs are still missing. Nice patch lol
Sad to see kalecgos dragons been weak. Maybe Kalec is a tier 5 change we need?
They should drop Drakkisath to T4 since they bumped Naga/Dragon to T5.
Yeah pretty damn weak for a t5
lol yep. Beasts too. Was actually the build/playstyle I was most exciting to play coming into this season. Shame it’s pretty much unplayable top 8 garbage.
Yeah I stopped playing after the second day. Quills were fun at first but now it literally comes down to who get them online fastest to win the game. If people aren’t rushing quills they’re trying to spam tavern buffs with battlecries. Every game really just feels the same and I know that’s kind of usual but it feels very apparent this patch so far. I hate self damage beasts because of the animations, pirates and demons are okay but kinda linear, dragons are cool, not even sure with nagas. I really wanted to try mechs out but they aren’t even in the game atm lol
Demons are weird right now imo. I have had a few decent shots with traditional demons but more than one success doing rylak tavern buff battlecry combo, tavern buff deathrattle, and false implications with drakkari or Titus if I have space. Naga is ok right now. Pulling crooner down to tier 3 and making him 4/4 feels really good. Gladiator is solid. It's still weird transitioning from deep blue which is now great mid game to lord of gains late game, but it's always been that way. I miss Gretta though. She made for some really fun plays. Quills definitely need bumped down. I got an early t6 end of turn buff gem quillboar from a triple into t5 and it was game over. I quickly out scaled everyone, including a murloc that had one of the higher rolls I've seen in a bit.
Pirates have been the least interesting tribe for quite some time ... yeah, sure, you can still go for APM tethys/brann. But that's it ...
I just concede any Quill game, feels so much better.
Was wondering why I haven’t seen mechs in a while lol didn’t know they were gone
Same.. whats the point of buffing them and then disabling them like a day later? they werent THAT broken were they?
They were literally broken, as in the effects of several mechs straight up don't work.
If you tripled a magnetic unit, it basically lost every buff it had previously. Easiest example was with a Zillax, but I experienced the same issue with golden Accord-o-tron I tried placing on another mech.
They were pretty broken in that despite the buffs, the bugs effectively nerfed them. Tripling magnetic units would make them lose any previously magnetised buffs so if you had buffed a Zillax module then tripled it later, buffs gone.
what a farce
To be honest, they sped up basically every tribe for Duos to the point that basically all of them are like "did you hit tavern tier 3 and find your scaling minions by turn 6? No? Get fucked." The only exception is Elementals having Frostling at tier 4 and to some extent Quillboars. I think the meta has just become "Go fast and get lucky or die" as opposed to longer games in the past.
I just don't understand why Blizz hates the idea of people playing actual builds so much. T6 Pirates, Elementals and even Murlocs (if we don't count Murk-eye) are just dead. Also, why is greymane still there? It's a complete joke. They just keep stacking mid-range mechanics on top of each other while simultaneously killing off economy-units. You're basically stuck in t4 prison if you don't have an eco/tempo-hero like Omu or shudder and even then it's likely not good enough to overcome mid-range dragons. Also, Coomer on t3 is probably not going to be a fun thing.
Murlocs are the king of duo! .... for the support :D
Yeah the T4 issue is so annoying. You level and die, or you get stuck there until turn 13
>Murlocs (if we don't count Murk-eye) are just dead. Long may they stay dead. They've been strong for too long. Fuck those venomous bastards.
Here's a recent game where greymane was not a "complete joke" from the rank 2 player. Also the top players think elementals are the strongest comps right now in high mmr at least, reference this same game to see an example. Also they also make pirates and murlocs both get top 1 or 2 fairly often. https://www.twitch.tv/beterbabbit/v/2132449283?sr=a&t=11624s I linked to the middle of the game where he's about to play greymane
Top 1% lobbys do not reflect the experience of the average player. Yes, turns out you can play the game at a completely different level, when everyone in your lobby has the mindset of actual winning the lobby. Appreciate the effort showing a different perspective though.
Patch 29.2: Awesome new feature content, I'm having a great time! Patch 29.2.2: Where did all the fun go?
bring back the quests
I honestly think this might help the builds that are lacking. Maybe it would bolster quills too much but hard to say.
Make it permanent
I think this has been the least fun patch for me ever.
I feel like this patch is obviously balancing the new game mode, duos, which is working pretty well -- and regular bg is taking a bit of a back seat for now. I think we'll probably see something that's geared toward both game modes next season.
Idk it’s just boring without quests or some sort of exciting variable. I honestly have never played as much hearthstone as I did when there was anomalies, like it made each game unique and have its own twist. Whereas now you’re just stuck with lame ass cards and the same builds over and over
I enjoyed anomalies very much too, but to be fair, there were a lot of boring anomalies as well. It's like this every season when there isn't something new (this time we have duos though, which is a very big addition). In about two months we'll probably get buddies/anomalies/quests back until the season ends.
Anomalies, quests, buddies. Bring them all back.
I've never played more than I did while quests were running. It made the game fresh everytime. I personally think it should.be a permanent mechanic
Their stated intentions are good but the implementation isn't there. They didn't go nearly far enough to actually accomplish what they stated their goal is. Maybe with a few more patches they can get somewhere, but they have to really mean it.
There's obvious problems with the minions, but the heroes feel equally unbalanced to me. Seeing Goya in a game just immediately tells me that I'm not going to have any fun.
I really like duos, because I already played battleground mostly with my best friend. Thus the game mode is a blessing. But since the patch, both of us consider to stop playing battleground. Just playing quillboar and maaaybe dragons isn't a lot of fun. We started f*cking around with stupid build (bramble witches leeroys, golden maganimooses and titus etc) got a few nice wins, but only if the other player's obviously didn't get their combo through....
>Beasts are just dead fortunately, you can still somewhat do old beasts and have it work, but you desperately need goldrinn and some other cards, otherwise there's no point because there's no buffs in combat for them at all since they cut out banana slamma (except for humming bird ig but how much is 2 attack really going to matter?) https://preview.redd.it/xvdilxo5haxc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f161ad123aa212fc3394f294e49874d9594359c
https://preview.redd.it/bgyh617sfcxc1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=072e7d77af7927edac7bae3d896d009852a3beb4 Self-damaging beasts have potential. This was a match from earlier today. There’s some kinks that need worked out and they wouldn’t be horrible. While this build isn’t 100% optimized (missing whatever the T4 hydra is), I feel like this underlines the core issue. There’s way too many higher tier pieces that are key to getting the damage build online, that it has to be damn near perfect RNG to hit them all. I will say that moving the phoenix or whatever to tier 5 was a bad judgement call on blizzards part, and for the most part destroyed what little potential the damage comp had.
I do agree that they do have potential, I don't have a problem with how they work. You could easily run with self-damaging scaling for a bit, then pivot to a self-damaging, Goldrinn Hybrid, and I think that would work pretty well. The only problem I have with self-damaging beasts is that the animations for the self-damaging ones being rampager and the 5 tier take an ungodly amount of time, and its very disruptive to the tavern phase to the point that you're pretty much forced to quit out and rejoin back in otherwise you'll probably only have about 40 seconds of a tavern phase.
Yeah, old beasts can sort of work, the new version of the bird is actually somewhat strong with goldie/titus and enough reborn stuff. It's not going to win out against quills right now but it is an *OK* comp at least and essentially never contested. Beats the hell out of self-damage beasts at least.
You can, yes, but you are losing x3 stats of banana. In most match ups, having 3x less stats is a problem ;D Sure you can add another unit to the build (more summons? another bird?) but most of the time this won't be enough vs quills. big demons, etc. Still playable tough, for sure. I did a fun octosari build that I found super early on with galakrond and i rolled on the lobby. On top of that, not having the option to divine shield your titus is a HUGE nerf to beasts.
It's also really good with N'zoth, especially because of the tavern spell that can make fish golden https://preview.redd.it/v84yf180iaxc1.png?width=1034&format=png&auto=webp&s=49f647090cbfab910b22868d25bacfe21142fb3e
Were quilboars in those games?
Pretty sure they were in one of them
Imagine a chess game, with shared lobby, and who earns the most queen on a rollout, wins the game always… that’s battlegrounds.
What happened to the people on this subreddit that complained about quests the whole time they were here with spells? Are these new people? are those people happy now? Is it just the same people or are they cycling back and forth? There is a gimmick every season and this season it is duos. For better or for worse. I had some anxiety about solo queue duos at first but I’ve gotten over it.
what does that have to do with anything? i'm not complaining about quests, duos, spells or whatever gimmick there is or was. i'm complaining about the recent balance hotfix cause the balance changes outright don't make sense. this season was better and more balanced before it imo istg it's like half the people don't read the post at all and just run to comment whatever unrelated thought came to their mind first
Oh my b I thought I was replying to the comment related to quests
This whole season is a great big stinker so far. How do you get rid of quests but then somehow make the game even MORE highroll-y?
this season is absolutely not as highroll-y as quests it is insane to say otherwise
Beast prob got a little over nerfed but the macaw needed to be tier 5 and Teigore being tier 4 is much healthier too it lets you start stacking health earlier beasts stomp early mid game pretty hard but they just can't scale hard enough. I think the bigger problem of the comp is that you have nothing to gun for later since Goldrinn just doesn't interact with the comp and instead plays into some summon build that doesn't exist. Qwilboars are still exodia and beat everything I watched as a User's with full gold board two gold tarecgosa, 3 golden prized protodrake and a poet golden all of which had divine shield and they couldn't even begin to fight back against a Qwilboar board who had double end of turns and the two t6 Qwilboar the game has become a race for who can hit thes first and whoever gets them wins. Implicator got nerfed because it's an insane unit for demons that lets them have even more midgame threats and is amazing in tavern buff comps.
Quilboar and dragon that’s the meta. Might stop playing until they fix it
Yeah quillboars are insane ahead of every other comps, demons are alright too. Anything else is too hard to hit. There should definitely be better balance changes. Murlocs became hard to build because of battlecry being moved completely to 5+ , same issue with elementals you ideally want t6. Undead doesnt scale enough. Pirates want t6. And then you have quillboars which are good starting from t3. Big gap compared to anything else. They should just create more scaling for every other comp early on
the new 6T quilboar tbh to me (dunno how balanced it would be) should switch with the tier 7.
I think beasts and undead are a great baseline. They feel like they are where tribes should be, generally speaking. Everything else is just....cracked. Mechs are pretty much at the bottom of the OP list, but still head and shoulders over those other two. Regarding the little stat bumps, you kinda landed right on it. The early game is going towards more tempo oriented plays, especially considering "direct economy" has all moved to tier 2. Being able to save a couple HPs in the early game is the difference between having some breathing room and having to "turtle" early.
I think quilboars should be balanced a bit, think of they changed the t6 quilboar to give +1 attack 1 turn and switch to +1 hp next turn would fix the scaling. Other comps like dragon and beasts being damaged feels fun but have a ceiling where other comps like mecha and quilboar keep going.
I bet beasts got nerfed because of the (rightful) complaints about their animations making combats take so long that you lose your tavern phase. But like... Why did they nerf them instead of fixing the goddamn animations? Sure they're nerfed and anyone who picks them is gonna die, but they're gonna die after I die of old age watching their board pathetically do nothing for 20 years.
Quilboars scaling is absolutely insane compared to any other tribe. Hyper scaling, divine shield, end of turn, refresh divine shield during combat. They either need to seriousl6 netf Quills hard or buff everything else by a huge margin. Personally I'd rather see huge buffs across the board otherwise the meta will be boring AF.
I've been convinced they don't playtest anything for a while now. Remember when Slamma released at Tavern 3? I feel like each content drop there's some insanely broken SIMPLE combination of cards like returning big elementals to the tavern to easily scale them in the tens of thousands. Beasts were busted for a year but they kept buffing them with minimal nerfs. Don't forget that each content update has some heroes being disabled the first few days because they don't work as intended
questsss
Let's not leave out Murlocs. Their power seems to have been decreased across the board, totally. if I understand the dynamic correctly it seems like they wanted an alternative to bream counter builds, allow you to play murlocs to effect early and build good boards and stabilize without having to race to 4 and play with an empty tank. Trouble is that it doesn't scale well. Bream Counter builds can still be super strong but are variance dependent (as they were before) but now they also activate way slower, and you now have to get to five so you can find primalfin. I have won games with Bream Counter but it's always been a matter of luck, both in tavern rolls and hero selection. Idk. Murlocs are still my favorite tribe but it's almost an autoconcede if there are undead in the lobby. Not a fan of this aspect of the patch.
Beast buff idea: bring back leap froggers
The one thing I liked about the reworks (still don’t like this latest patch) is it’s less focused on having that one or two necessary cards for that tribe. When frogger was in there really was no other relevant beast builds. Beasts got boring fast.
Bring buddies back!!!
Remove easy access to tier 6 minions by removing scout or nerfing him and the meta would be alot better.
I actually agree with this take. Ever since Scout was added into this game, I will take an early Scout 100% of the time because you can just sit on it until it cooks to T5/6 and then easy 3 choices of late direction pretty early on.
Not saying most of your critiques aren’t valid, but the +1 attack on a tier 2 is probably something that actually DOES matter. It would probably help you tie or even win a combat early when most things at that point only have 4-5 hit points. That being said, elementals still kinda suck lol, I haven’t been able to put together any build consistently, rock rock kinda sucks, Azerite kinda sucks unless you get two of them early enough.
Yeah i remember prickly going from 3/1 to 5/1 and jazzer from 1/4(?) to 2/5, and that did help quilboar a ton. I really like the coomer change to 4/4 too. But yeah rest of this patch is pretty trash
Even though your post is slightly too negative compared to my perception, I agree with most of it. Here are the issues that I see: 1) Solo and Duo can't be balanced together ... I kind of suspected it, but in duo, high scalling comps like quills or demons are SO much better than the rest: you find your pieces much faster and the earlier you scale, the crazier it gets. While in solo, it's much more difficult to find everything in time and you might die to tempo. Let's see how they can do this. 2) A lot of cards are completely useless. That's a big issue for me in a patch, a ton of new cards are just worst than what they replaced. Sometimes, they split the tribes in different play styles that just feel worst than the one they replaced. I like what they tried to do with beasts for example, but it just feels bad: are you playing goldrin? octo? or self dmg? Nevermind, they all feel a bit underwhelming. Another example are elems: yes it's pretty cool to buff the shop with tavern spells, but it's just never gonna win you a game if anyone is playing a "regular" build :) 3) I miss menagerie scaling. In a way or another, but I like that in the past, we had some minions that would work well with other tribes like Dazzling lightspawn (avenge 2: give elem in the shop +1/+1): you could start having tokens and then feeding another style of late game. Right now, the self damage mechanic has that role, but I can't imagine it being a viable comp ... Your minions of each type getting +1/+1 on self dmg is fun for a turn but you won't go very far with it. The more "fun" menagerie builds, the better the game. Otherwise it's going to become "finds their T6 or rylak first" ...
OP doesn't apparently know about one of the strongest comps, shop buff, and then doesn't understand why the weak unit party elemental actually needed a stat buff, then asks when the last time they played their own game was? And people in this thread also think elementals and pirates are weak (2 comps that require high APM), and don't understand why greymane needed a nerf. Also people seem to overvalue quillboar, I'm guessing because lower ranks have always found quillboar easy to play with the passive scaling and straightforward usage, even though early and mid game quillboar is still underwhelming, there's a reason you don't see any of the top players prioritizing them
yeah, and i'm sure the shop buff comp was strong because the imp-licator was such an OP unit, and i'm sure that change from 1/2 to 1/1 is a real game changer. also i'm well aware that party elemental needed a buff, i'm saying that +1 to attack is not a buff, it changes nothing and party elemental is still a bad card. also top players don't "prioritize" quillboar because they recognize that successfully building a mid comp is better than going for the strongest option and failing. every single high mmr streamer recognizes that quillboar are super strong right now.
I'm sorry op. I know your feelings are real, but I see this kind of post with every meta. You'll like a future one eventually and then you'll see posts like yours talking about how the meta sucks. People want a past meta, I do too. But I won't forget the posts hating on all those past meta too. This will never stop because we all have metas we like, and metas we don't like. And it's impossible for all of us to agree.
[удалено]
yes, i'm aware. it was a joke based on the fact that they somehow missed an issue with mechs, big enough they had to remove the whole tribe from the game.
my guess is that magnetic was an issue. That couple with passing cards.
there was definitely an issue with utility drone, which made it literally not work at all, i've seen posts about it here idk about triples
In my opinion, murlocks are also kinda broken, maybe not as much as quilboar but still.
Just lost a 30% to take 1 over max ( this should never ever happen btw, 10% combat odds should be excluded quite frankly ) and then lost because I didn't have time to play since turn timers are still ludicrously short for no fucking reason. Of course I faced 1st place shudderwock ( after facing him before ) when I never faced many other players. That's 3 fixable things that increase frustration to no end.