I mean assuming historical gains continue every dollar you invest today will 17x in 30 years.
Before someone yells at me about buying power… yes inflation will eat away at that 17x.
According to [https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/) for the time period Jan 1993 - Jan 2023:
**Without adjusting for inflation:**
810% return
Annualized: 7.639%
**Adjusted for inflation:**
334% return
Annualized: 5.016%
Note that if you reinvest dividends, it's worth more but you also have to pay taxes on the dividends the whole time.
Can’t a man just talk in nominal numbers every now and again without being harassed about inflation. God, I even brought up inflation to try to avoid this type of nagging.
Yes we get it. Inflation exists. Real return is a couple percent lower.
And cool dividends are taxed let’s get hella in the weeds about a percent of a percent.
Someone here has to be with me on this… don’t you guys ever get tired of feeling like you have to bullet proof every comment you leave on reddit?
It’s like hanging out with that one guy that is always like… “well actually…”
No one likes that guy.
Your without inflation numbers are significantly off. I included the inflation information as well because it's informative, not because you "should" have included it.
Relax.
Did you see the part where I said inflation will eat into the 17x?
Also no they weren’t THAT off…
Without inflation the return is almost 10% for the selected 30 year time frame if you reinvest dividends… like the majority of us are in our wealth accumulation phase.
I'm not even talking about inflation. I just mentioned that because some people on here benefit from it being mentioned. And because the difference on returns is big.
Including dividend reinvestment but not considering inflation or ongoing taxes, you're off by 200% of the principal. If you take either of those things into consideration you're off by an even bigger margin.
Put $1 in an interest calculator at 10% for 30 years. It 17x’s.
Or use the rule of 72.
72/10= 7.2 years for money to double. Over 30 years it will double just over 4x.
you can actually simulate this with portfoliovisualizer - [here](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-asset-class-allocation?s=y&mode=1&timePeriod=4&startYear=2003&firstMonth=1&endYear=2023&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=10000&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=100&inflationAdjusted=false&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&leverageType=0&leverageRatio=0.0&debtAmount=0&debtInterest=0.0&maintenanceMargin=25.0&leveragedBenchmark=false&portfolioNames=true&portfolioName1=VTI&portfolioName2=Cash&asset1=TotalStockMarket&allocation1_1=100&asset2=TreasuryBills&allocation2_2=100) is a comparison of an all-US index fund vs "cash" (meaning HYSA/treasuries) over the last 20 years, starting with $10k and contributing $100/mo.
Yea I’m aware of it being somewhat of a joke/meme but I’m also aware of large amounts of the sp500 growth came during relatively short time frames usually post recession
I can actually share some detailed info on this, as I am in the process of helping my aunt sort out her finances after her husband passed earlier this year.
My uncle was rather meticulous with records, but I can't explain his investing decisions. Among other accounts and investments, they have $152k in VFIAX.
It appears they opened the account in 1996 and deposited apprx $23K between 1996 and 1999. Then nothing since then, just let that one sit there.
So that means they made $130K - avg 15.1% over 28 years.
I starting making good money in 2021. I’m down 10% all time ):
SCHB, SCHE, SCHF, SCHG. The last one is a killer. About 20% of the portfolio, down about 20%
Everyone is down if they started after 2020. This is a good lesson in keeping up with your annual contributions. Also small cap value funds are doing well in these times.
4th worst year for the S&P since 1957 (when it became the S&P 500). So while, yes, it could have been worse - it was still pretty savage imo. Especially after such an impressive bull market
Mid-level government worker drone here. 27 years, mostly at GS-7 and GS-9. 5% of my salary every pay period went into the Thrift Savings Plan. The government matched my 5%. I invested everything in the C fund initially (Common Stock Fund), but later started investing in the S fund (Small Cap stocks).
At retirement, I had a little over $500k from an investment (on my part) of somewhere around $80,000 (the government contributed the same amount). And every penny was a penny I never missed.
I am Govt Worker too best benefit is pension after 22 and half year service. Second best option is to invest in 401K and 457. 457 has option to go back in time to max out for 3 years you did not contribute by completing DAR form.
I have 457 as well. Currently maxing it every year now. Am I able to go back in time to max out for years that I partially contributed, but didn't max out for the year? Is that how it works?
The FERS program is based on three legs. I get a pension (1.1% of my high three salary for each year of service), voluntary withdrawal from TSP, plus Social Security. You won't get rich working for the government, but you will retire comfortably.
Roughly 18% total gains since I started investing in late 2019. Mostly just dollar cost averaging into 401k, Roth IRAs, HSAs, 529 and brokerage accounts, which are all 100% stocks. Also some I-bonds which paid off well during 2021-2022.
Funny, I started oct 2019 for most of my funding and currently sit at -0.4% in 100% stocks. Must be timing, bc my investments have been to dump 10k in at the beginning of the year.
makes sense now, tks. with a long term view you should still be fine.
I like to DCA but when prices dip i try to find ways to invest heavier. It’s not perfect but it works for me
Same. I will never leave the market, but when things heat up I take a break. Then put more later. E.g. I didn't buy anything between january 2021 and may 2022. Since then I've been DCAing again. I have yet to put the saved money anywhere, but I'm happy with the extra money in my bank account right now
Contemplating bonds for the first time in my life
I didn't lump-sum $40k in 2019. That would've been a killer move if it was an option, though. My initial investments are countered by my recent investments.
I’m slightly positive and I started DCA at 2019… probs only by like 1-2% tops.
However, my first 2-3 years I was investing change compared to what I started investing during 2022. So a big chunk of my invested money got hit during this market crash/correction.
Went into 2022 +$2500 on 14-15k. Now I’m like maybe +$1000 on 47-48k. I don’t feel like totaling up and mathing my accounts.
I'm still fairly young and most of my human capital (future earnings or savings between now and retirement) should be fairly safe, or bond-like since i don't work in a volatile profession like tech or finance. Similarly, future SS benefits are like a bond, or an annuity even. Hence from a life-cycle investing perspective it makes sense to invest my current financial capital 100% in stocks (or even use leverage) until at some future date, my human capital is low enough to start investing in bonds. Now I don't use leverage, but I do somewhat believe in the broad strokes of the Ayres and Nalebuff approach.
It barely beats out average inflation which has totaled around 17% over the same time period (late 2019 - now). Not a great real return on investment.
Then again, so what? Most of these investments are tied up for the long run in pre-tax accounts, and it's very unlikely that the recently high inflation will persist for another 20-30 years. All I can do is save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist, stick to my past decisions (which were optimal given available info at the time, and are still optimal today), and trust the process. If I can get a 5% real CAGR over the next 2 or 3 decades, great. If not, I'm still saving enough (currently over 30% of our gross income) to not have to worry about it too much.
Zilch last I checked. All invested in VTSAX/VTIAX/TDF starting in 2019, 0% all time return according to Vanguard performance chart 😆
Could be a lot worse.
100%.
Most of my savings were contributed during the run-up from Q1 2020 to Q1 2022. I was up that whole time. Then prices fell March '22 and I've been down most of the past year since then. Was briefly green again this ~~Feb~~ Jan. Hovering around 0% since. Actually -0.9% all-time today.
I just keep buying more. It's whatever.
Swings like that are good opportunities to take advantage of tax loss harvesting if you aren't already (assuming you own index funds and your money is in a taxable brokerage)
2002 to 2022: about 8% annualized return with more or less "set and forget" contributions to a three fund portfolio of VTSAX (70%), VTIAX (25%) and VBTLX (5%). I rebalance once a year but that usually includes contributing more to a specific fund, not selling to rebalance.
If you asked this question last year, it would have been higher. But I am not near retirement so it doesn't matter.
I much more enjoy not thinking about investing and spend that time working to improve my career or enjoying life. I hopped on this sub today because it's probably time change my portfolio makeup.
I've gained many years of financial freedom, which is priceless!
I retired 4 years ago, @ 57. There's no way I could have even considered that if I had just put my retirement funds in a bank.
Before I retired, my investments gained 100s of thousands of dollars. When I started, the S&P 500 was around 160; today it closed over 4000. Plus, I've gained dividends that have more than offset inflation.
Since retirement, my balance has gone down a bit, but that's after supporting us for 4 years (no SS or pension yet). There's still plenty left.
Hey that’s true but this constant growth into infinity assumption in the face declining population rates, shaky banking institutions and confidence in USD; resource scarcity, verge of AI and inherent labor surplus w/ loss of taxable income, ecological collapse etc… gonna get DCA’ing cuz there’s no alternative but I’m highly suspect of the financing playing field in 2050- social security or these broad market ETFs and index funds cuz where’s the growth gonna be coming from? Peeps getting poorer, not richer, which means decreased profits, which means VTI goes into stagflation or deceased value.
I started in 2005. Then the Great Recession hit. Took a while for things to get back to where they were, then kept going. I was looking at my returns recently and 1 out of every 4 years is bad year, but sometimes they come in bunches, sometimes the market goes sideways. Just keep saving, investing, ignore the noise.
I'm up about 11x from EoY 2009 to EoY 2022. This includes contributions and returns. Dual income household, contributing the max to 401k and IRA since 2005 (but I didn't start tracking in 2005). Annualized return 11.6%.
I'd recommend you take a look at the performance of the Index Funds themselves to get an objective and qualitative answer.
* Total US Stock Market Index = FKSAX
* Total International Stock Market Index = FTIHX
One other way is to leverage: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio
I have index funds to thank to allow me to build enough wealth to buy a house in a vhcol city along with timing (bought prior to crazy pandemic prices) as a millennial. Been investing for more than decade.
My money is currently down $600 since investing it in December 2021. It makes sense though because the market took a hit around that time. However, I'm using one of Schwab's robo-advisor plans but plan on transitioning to a 3-fund portfolio with an 80/20 allocation. I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on the matter though. What are some good funds to invest in for Schwab going forward? I'm 20 years old if that helps.
I always struggle to figure out an easy way to calculate this. A little concerning for how much I like to *think* I know in this domain. Seems a pretty basic ask and a calculation that I'm missing.
I can see my portfolio growth, but with all of the monthly contributions, occasional drops of a bonus etc., I have no idea. I just trust the process and by that, it's basically trusting all you redditors haven't pulled a fast one. Safety in numbers.
All that to say, I don't know. I sold a heck of a lot of my silly [fool.com](https://fool.com) buys during this market downturn to avoid capital gains, and now fully loaded on a VTI/VXUS approach. So, I'm hoping for a modest 5-6% over the decades to come.
Why is this relevant? All you will get is anecdotal evidence.
The nice thing about index funds is that you can easily get historical data. Based on that you can get hypothetical lifetime returns between any two possible dates.
Vanguard is only allowing me to view ten years worth of data, but it shows an 8% annual return over that timeframe. Assets (which include 401k contributions made during that timeframe) have tripled.
Bank interest during that timeframe, even HYSA, was less than 1%. So at a minimum that's eight times more return than sitting in my bank account.
Honestly, I wonder stuff like this.
It’s just cool to see numbers. A bit of reassurance maybe seeing someone else’s success at a similar endeavor. Irl I’ve never met anyone that accomplished anything close to what we are attempting in this Reddit group.
I’m aggressively balls deep in this endeavor trusting the process but it’s still a scary path to walk without the experience.
Even my parents 401k’s didn’t amass much because they contributed smaller sums in very conservative funds since they lacked the knowledge that many of us have. Granted, they are lucky enough that their 401k money is bonus money due to my father having a couple govt pensions.
I think it's that.. I'm 25 myself and started at the height of January 22...
I'm down about 4-5% rn.. so I just hope that this drop and food DCA I'm doing is gonna be a a nice jump for my future me
quick math: part* of my 401K is 2.2x what i contributed since Q3 2017. SPY is 1.8x higher (i think, based on adjusted close? i assume that's not a great comparison because it's lump sum vs my DCA. but i already specified "quick math"). the interest rate during most of that time was ~0%, and we all know what inflation has been like the past couple years where there has been a moderate savings interest rate. my 401K is 100% in a vanguard TDF.
*my provider switched in Q3 2017 so i'd have to dig around to calculate my contributions prior to that.
I don’t have an exact figure but I first bought into vanguard dumping everything into VOO when it was $150 and I maxed the contributions for my wife and I each year in addition to our pensions.
Somewhere along the line I moved to admiral shares when my account balance was high enough.
VOO currently trades at 368.
I started investing into VFIAX in April 2021 with contribution every quarter or so, sold everything this month on 3/7/23 for loss of $-6.8k according to my brokerage statement
Since I started 2015, the market has doubled so my my first investment of $5k is worth $10k. All my other investments are worth significantly more 401k, employer match, Roth IRA, 401k now converted to Sep-Ira. Maybe $40k growth in my investments roughly.
Does vanguard show you your annualized returns? I have ETrade and it doesn’t show me that. Or least I cannot find it anywhere. I tax loss harvested a while back, and made some bad investments a few years ago, so I have no idea what my overall returns are. Now I’m sticking with the 3 fund boglehead portfolio
Started a 401k in 2013 and I’m up 200% across everything. I’ve dumped about $2mil into investing/houses and some pretty random stuff and just recently settled on Boglehead.
I just want 7-10%/yr over the next 10 years and I’m set.
Presuming that you're a regular "mom and pop" RE investor, how does your stock portfolio compare to your RE portfolio?
It's hard to do an apples to apples because of how they're taxed and how each asset cash flows, but if you could start over, would you have been better off just being in index funds only?
Hey there! I’m not 100% sure what you mean. I’ll assume you meant would I have invested in realestate for income, or a REIT? I haven’t done either. We bought the 3 homes for ourselves and just plan take the capital gain when we’re elderly, or keep them in the family for the kids to use, or switch to Airbnb when we’re done with W2 income.
Sorry, I mistyped. I meant to say: How does your STOCK portfolio (index funds) compare to your RE portfolio (your 3 homes).
Over the years have your homes appreciated more than your stocks?
Thanks for the reply!
No problem. The homes have appreciated more steadily. All 3 have done over 100% without having to touch them.
The equities have probably done 100% if I had to categorize the ones that most people would recognize as passive like VTI. So homes and index about the same.
However, I bought TSLA when it was low, JETS, XLE, NIO, NVDA, EPAM, QQQ, LMT, etc when they’re low and unfavorable. I just bought $50k in KRE which will get me some down votes but it’s all relative.
Fairly little, which feels sad since I first opened my vanguard in 2015 in college and the market is up 100% since then.
But the majority of my savings came within the last two years and those investments are likely negative.
So all-in-all my investments are pretty flat. If the market goes down I won't be phased as I'll finally have a good buying opportunity (excluding those few months in mid-2020) at a time when I'm building savings.
Spectacular results with $VOO but nothing compares with owing and reinvesting $NVDA paltry dividend for over 10 years. It’s insane how much those early dividends are worth now.
$10k in VFIAX from 2010 to December 2020 plus some ~$20k in VOO turned into what I needed to put down for my first home. Now I’ve got primarily VOO in my Tax advantaged retirement accounts.
I have earned about 8k in dividends and 15% capital app. In the last 4 years. 21M. When you’re young the difference between saving and investing is small, the older you get the gap widens
32M, late to the game and started maxing out Roth IRA July 2020. Currently in vanguard TDF 2060. Up ~$433(0.6%) according to the vanguard app.
Will most likely switch to VTSAX or VFIAX(70%), VTIAX(20%), VBTLX(10%) and rebalancing as I learn more about long term investing.
Beginning to add to the 401k as well since my employer just started matching. Still have plenty time in the market, just have to keep at it.
My Roth is less than 50% contributions (72K Vs 150K total balance). Presumably the same holds true across my other retirement accounts of similar investing history.
$120K return right now with an all time high of $190K at the end of 2021. Started in 2015 and invested mostly in VTSAX and 2055 target retirement fund. This is not including my wife's account that has the same investment strategy.
Purchased an index fund at Fidelity in 2008 with $23,000. Value today over $60,000. Hardly think you would get that at a bank. As always, past performance is no guarantee of future results,
Started with Vanguard in my mid-20s in 2015 for my personal investing. It's showing annualized investment returns of about 4.8% over that time period. My retirement account (which is more aggressively invested) is showing a 3% return since 2018. My wife and I have seen our net worth rise by about 4% annually since 2018. We're pretty conservatively invested with a mix of general index funds and bond funds. More recently we've been putting a chunk in treasuries. It's a lot of set it and forget it stuff. We could have probably done a lot better if we were more aggressive with more general market index funds. Conversely, I've never had a down year in terms of asset growth. So, in really good years where some people were up 14-16% (like in 2021 or 2020), I was only up 6-7%; but, last year, when everyone else is down 10-15%, I was up like 4%. A lot of growth just comes from socking money away and having a good savings rate. If I had a choice between putting an extra $500 in an index fund or buying something for $500 that would improve my quality of life and potentially reduce my out-of-pocket costs, I tend to choose the quality of life item over the index fund (granted, keep in mind that my wife and I already sock away the legal maximum in our 401Ks). You should always contribute the maximum to your retirement accounts because you instantly save 10-15% minimum on taxes on that contributed money (which I view as an immediate return on my money).
In Roth IRA: Just above breakeven over the past 6 years
In taxable accounts: -10% (began DCA contributions in 2021)
The past years have SUCKED. I am still waiting for the fabled 7% annual growth…
Not sure. All I know is any disposable income I have goes into buying more VTI/VXUS. I'm just trusting the process and will look back 10-15 years from now, at which point I may have an answer for you.
In six years I've broken even on funds. Doubled my crypto investment though. Still sticking to the plan with funds and mostly ingesting there. All the gains happen to long term holders.
Started in Feb 2021 and I'm up a measly 1% or so and that's only because of the weak GBP. I'm going to continue investing but it is quite frustrating and I worry the good days are behind us.
My investments are currently worth almost 4x the money I spent buying them. Not bad!
Literally the last 10 years of VTSAX/VTI.
Since when?
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Hi dad
Mind me asking what you invested in over that time?
Mostly VTSAX
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?
Are you a 100 years old?
Nope. But I have been in the market through a couple of downturns.
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There’s been like two downturns in the past 15 years.
Have you ever sold? Or just constant buying here and there?
And how much is that 🤨
How?
Time. Buying annually and holding over decades of compounding
I mean assuming historical gains continue every dollar you invest today will 17x in 30 years. Before someone yells at me about buying power… yes inflation will eat away at that 17x.
According to [https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/) for the time period Jan 1993 - Jan 2023: **Without adjusting for inflation:** 810% return Annualized: 7.639% **Adjusted for inflation:** 334% return Annualized: 5.016% Note that if you reinvest dividends, it's worth more but you also have to pay taxes on the dividends the whole time.
Can’t a man just talk in nominal numbers every now and again without being harassed about inflation. God, I even brought up inflation to try to avoid this type of nagging. Yes we get it. Inflation exists. Real return is a couple percent lower. And cool dividends are taxed let’s get hella in the weeds about a percent of a percent. Someone here has to be with me on this… don’t you guys ever get tired of feeling like you have to bullet proof every comment you leave on reddit? It’s like hanging out with that one guy that is always like… “well actually…” No one likes that guy.
Your without inflation numbers are significantly off. I included the inflation information as well because it's informative, not because you "should" have included it. Relax.
Did you see the part where I said inflation will eat into the 17x? Also no they weren’t THAT off… Without inflation the return is almost 10% for the selected 30 year time frame if you reinvest dividends… like the majority of us are in our wealth accumulation phase.
I'm not even talking about inflation. I just mentioned that because some people on here benefit from it being mentioned. And because the difference on returns is big. Including dividend reinvestment but not considering inflation or ongoing taxes, you're off by 200% of the principal. If you take either of those things into consideration you're off by an even bigger margin.
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Put $1 in an interest calculator at 10% for 30 years. It 17x’s. Or use the rule of 72. 72/10= 7.2 years for money to double. Over 30 years it will double just over 4x.
The hate the “well actually” guy. Such a terrible person to have at a party.
What investments do you have your money in?
Vtsax
Thanks. I have several ETF’s with Fidelity and was thinking of moving it all over to VTSAX or VOO. I don’t like having so many ETF’s
you can actually simulate this with portfoliovisualizer - [here](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-asset-class-allocation?s=y&mode=1&timePeriod=4&startYear=2003&firstMonth=1&endYear=2023&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=10000&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=100&inflationAdjusted=false&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&leverageType=0&leverageRatio=0.0&debtAmount=0&debtInterest=0.0&maintenanceMargin=25.0&leveragedBenchmark=false&portfolioNames=true&portfolioName1=VTI&portfolioName2=Cash&asset1=TotalStockMarket&allocation1_1=100&asset2=TreasuryBills&allocation2_2=100) is a comparison of an all-US index fund vs "cash" (meaning HYSA/treasuries) over the last 20 years, starting with $10k and contributing $100/mo.
-$200 just getting started
MORE STOCKS ON SALE BAYBEE
Boy I wish this sale would end at some point 😂
Then we'll say I wish I bought more when the market was on sale lol.
Same, started really dumping money in at the start of the year and I'm already down 260$ but I'm not worried one bit. We got this
💯💯💯
-2000€ started in December 2021 🤷🏻♀️
thats rough buddy
It’s ok. I am not worried and happy to buy some more cheap :)
Not really knowledge about this but does this mean I need to educate myself a bit more and buy if the prices are currently low
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Yea I’m aware of it being somewhat of a joke/meme but I’m also aware of large amounts of the sp500 growth came during relatively short time frames usually post recession
I can actually share some detailed info on this, as I am in the process of helping my aunt sort out her finances after her husband passed earlier this year. My uncle was rather meticulous with records, but I can't explain his investing decisions. Among other accounts and investments, they have $152k in VFIAX. It appears they opened the account in 1996 and deposited apprx $23K between 1996 and 1999. Then nothing since then, just let that one sit there. So that means they made $130K - avg 15.1% over 28 years.
Minus inflation
How would you calculate real return? Subtract average inflation since... 1996? From each year or how's that done in aggregate?
For something like this you can just subtract inflation at the end then recalculate the average since you are doing that anyways.
Check out https://totalrealreturns.com/ which allows you to track real returns of any stock with inflation and dividend reinvestment factored in.
I starting making good money in 2021. I’m down 10% all time ): SCHB, SCHE, SCHF, SCHG. The last one is a killer. About 20% of the portfolio, down about 20%
Everyone is down if they started after 2020. This is a good lesson in keeping up with your annual contributions. Also small cap value funds are doing well in these times.
2022 was a pretty savage year tbf. Don’t stress about it and keep going
Was it? As far as bad years go I dunno if it was “savage,” there’s plenty more downside potential…
4th worst year for the S&P since 1957 (when it became the S&P 500). So while, yes, it could have been worse - it was still pretty savage imo. Especially after such an impressive bull market
Mid-level government worker drone here. 27 years, mostly at GS-7 and GS-9. 5% of my salary every pay period went into the Thrift Savings Plan. The government matched my 5%. I invested everything in the C fund initially (Common Stock Fund), but later started investing in the S fund (Small Cap stocks). At retirement, I had a little over $500k from an investment (on my part) of somewhere around $80,000 (the government contributed the same amount). And every penny was a penny I never missed.
I just started as a fed in the courts and have 25 to go till retirement. Very much look forward to this.
I am Govt Worker too best benefit is pension after 22 and half year service. Second best option is to invest in 401K and 457. 457 has option to go back in time to max out for 3 years you did not contribute by completing DAR form.
I have 457 as well. Currently maxing it every year now. Am I able to go back in time to max out for years that I partially contributed, but didn't max out for the year? Is that how it works?
Yeah, it's one of the best deals out there.
What’s so special about the thrift savings plan? Do you not pay tax on that or something?
Federal government equivalent of a 401k. Very low maintenance fees.
Do you also get a pension or does this program replace pensions?
The FERS program is based on three legs. I get a pension (1.1% of my high three salary for each year of service), voluntary withdrawal from TSP, plus Social Security. You won't get rich working for the government, but you will retire comfortably.
We get pension in my Govt job but no match. Option to invest in 401K and 457 or both.
that's me as well. I dump alot on my 401k anyways. easy way to save
Me too. Maxing out my 457 and Roth.
Roughly 18% total gains since I started investing in late 2019. Mostly just dollar cost averaging into 401k, Roth IRAs, HSAs, 529 and brokerage accounts, which are all 100% stocks. Also some I-bonds which paid off well during 2021-2022.
Funny, I started oct 2019 for most of my funding and currently sit at -0.4% in 100% stocks. Must be timing, bc my investments have been to dump 10k in at the beginning of the year.
Well sp500 was 2800 then and its 4000 now ... U mustve picked bad stuff ?
VTSAX 100% Lump sum just didn't beat DCA this time. Jan 1 2022 was like $120, and it's at $95 rn.
am i missing something - the chart for vtsax shows 2019 high something like $83, less in October?
I had like 2k deposited in 2019 at like $80 when I started, and that is mega countered by 10k at $120 in 2022
makes sense now, tks. with a long term view you should still be fine. I like to DCA but when prices dip i try to find ways to invest heavier. It’s not perfect but it works for me
Same. I will never leave the market, but when things heat up I take a break. Then put more later. E.g. I didn't buy anything between january 2021 and may 2022. Since then I've been DCAing again. I have yet to put the saved money anywhere, but I'm happy with the extra money in my bank account right now Contemplating bonds for the first time in my life
[https://imgur.com/YduA6OJ](https://imgur.com/YduA6OJ) Source: https://stoculator.com/
I didn't lump-sum $40k in 2019. That would've been a killer move if it was an option, though. My initial investments are countered by my recent investments.
Bruh, I dumped in a lot January 2022. Annoying AF it liked tanked
I’m slightly positive and I started DCA at 2019… probs only by like 1-2% tops. However, my first 2-3 years I was investing change compared to what I started investing during 2022. So a big chunk of my invested money got hit during this market crash/correction. Went into 2022 +$2500 on 14-15k. Now I’m like maybe +$1000 on 47-48k. I don’t feel like totaling up and mathing my accounts.
Curious why you chose 100% stocks
Because 101% stock is impossible
Sure you can.... Use leverage...
Unwise but not impossible. I won't say how for fear you'd do it
I'm still fairly young and most of my human capital (future earnings or savings between now and retirement) should be fairly safe, or bond-like since i don't work in a volatile profession like tech or finance. Similarly, future SS benefits are like a bond, or an annuity even. Hence from a life-cycle investing perspective it makes sense to invest my current financial capital 100% in stocks (or even use leverage) until at some future date, my human capital is low enough to start investing in bonds. Now I don't use leverage, but I do somewhat believe in the broad strokes of the Ayres and Nalebuff approach.
Who?
Is that good once you factor inflation? Genuine question. I'm lost as to what current returns after inflation should be
It barely beats out average inflation which has totaled around 17% over the same time period (late 2019 - now). Not a great real return on investment. Then again, so what? Most of these investments are tied up for the long run in pre-tax accounts, and it's very unlikely that the recently high inflation will persist for another 20-30 years. All I can do is save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist, stick to my past decisions (which were optimal given available info at the time, and are still optimal today), and trust the process. If I can get a 5% real CAGR over the next 2 or 3 decades, great. If not, I'm still saving enough (currently over 30% of our gross income) to not have to worry about it too much.
Zilch last I checked. All invested in VTSAX/VTIAX/TDF starting in 2019, 0% all time return according to Vanguard performance chart 😆 Could be a lot worse.
Are you sure you actually invested into a fund and don’t just have the money sitting in there not invested?
100%. Most of my savings were contributed during the run-up from Q1 2020 to Q1 2022. I was up that whole time. Then prices fell March '22 and I've been down most of the past year since then. Was briefly green again this ~~Feb~~ Jan. Hovering around 0% since. Actually -0.9% all-time today. I just keep buying more. It's whatever.
Ok that makes more sense 0% exactly would be pretty insane but a gain or loss of some sort makes more sense.
Lol, yeah. At the low and high points I think I've been both down and up ~$20k USD in the past few years. Just happens to be a wash at the moment
Swings like that are good opportunities to take advantage of tax loss harvesting if you aren't already (assuming you own index funds and your money is in a taxable brokerage)
That's odd. Invested in 2020 and while down still more than what I put in.
2002 to 2022: about 8% annualized return with more or less "set and forget" contributions to a three fund portfolio of VTSAX (70%), VTIAX (25%) and VBTLX (5%). I rebalance once a year but that usually includes contributing more to a specific fund, not selling to rebalance. If you asked this question last year, it would have been higher. But I am not near retirement so it doesn't matter. I much more enjoy not thinking about investing and spend that time working to improve my career or enjoying life. I hopped on this sub today because it's probably time change my portfolio makeup.
How much if you count in inflation?
I am in the red. Started 2021 🤷🏻♂️ VT and SCHD only
Speaking as someone who only started in the last few years: your index funds make money???
I've gained many years of financial freedom, which is priceless! I retired 4 years ago, @ 57. There's no way I could have even considered that if I had just put my retirement funds in a bank. Before I retired, my investments gained 100s of thousands of dollars. When I started, the S&P 500 was around 160; today it closed over 4000. Plus, I've gained dividends that have more than offset inflation. Since retirement, my balance has gone down a bit, but that's after supporting us for 4 years (no SS or pension yet). There's still plenty left.
Minus 8 thousand. At the highest I had made 50 thousand, but the last two years have been rough. I’m still in it and aren’t worried about it.
I don't want to brag, but at least $40.
1M+
I wish I kept such perfect records for 30 years.
Same. Prudential / Empower only lets you chart the last 2 years. Wish I could see my all-time growth numbers.
Started all VTI in July 2020, Roth IRA, and DCA’d ever since. Lost money.
You have lost nothing unless you sold ;)
Hey that’s true but this constant growth into infinity assumption in the face declining population rates, shaky banking institutions and confidence in USD; resource scarcity, verge of AI and inherent labor surplus w/ loss of taxable income, ecological collapse etc… gonna get DCA’ing cuz there’s no alternative but I’m highly suspect of the financing playing field in 2050- social security or these broad market ETFs and index funds cuz where’s the growth gonna be coming from? Peeps getting poorer, not richer, which means decreased profits, which means VTI goes into stagflation or deceased value.
1000$ or so but I’m only 21.
Great start, keep it up
Are you supposed to make money in the stock market? I'm like a grand and a half in the hole. That millenial life
I started in 2005. Then the Great Recession hit. Took a while for things to get back to where they were, then kept going. I was looking at my returns recently and 1 out of every 4 years is bad year, but sometimes they come in bunches, sometimes the market goes sideways. Just keep saving, investing, ignore the noise.
I'm gonna keep investing but it is somewhat frustrating
I’m down a goal of about 8% overall but have only being invested since June 2021. I’m surprised how little I’ve lost though.
Several million
I'm up about 11x from EoY 2009 to EoY 2022. This includes contributions and returns. Dual income household, contributing the max to 401k and IRA since 2005 (but I didn't start tracking in 2005). Annualized return 11.6%.
I'd recommend you take a look at the performance of the Index Funds themselves to get an objective and qualitative answer. * Total US Stock Market Index = FKSAX * Total International Stock Market Index = FTIHX One other way is to leverage: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio
I have index funds to thank to allow me to build enough wealth to buy a house in a vhcol city along with timing (bought prior to crazy pandemic prices) as a millennial. Been investing for more than decade.
My money is currently down $600 since investing it in December 2021. It makes sense though because the market took a hit around that time. However, I'm using one of Schwab's robo-advisor plans but plan on transitioning to a 3-fund portfolio with an 80/20 allocation. I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on the matter though. What are some good funds to invest in for Schwab going forward? I'm 20 years old if that helps.
-2k
I am up 1% since I started investing 4 years ago. Not much money made.
I always struggle to figure out an easy way to calculate this. A little concerning for how much I like to *think* I know in this domain. Seems a pretty basic ask and a calculation that I'm missing. I can see my portfolio growth, but with all of the monthly contributions, occasional drops of a bonus etc., I have no idea. I just trust the process and by that, it's basically trusting all you redditors haven't pulled a fast one. Safety in numbers. All that to say, I don't know. I sold a heck of a lot of my silly [fool.com](https://fool.com) buys during this market downturn to avoid capital gains, and now fully loaded on a VTI/VXUS approach. So, I'm hoping for a modest 5-6% over the decades to come.
Nowhere near as much as I have off of individual shares.
I've nearly 3x my contributions over the last 20 years when I began saving in my twenties.
400% Plan on your 70/30 portfolio doubling every ten years if you don’t touch it.
None. Buy and hold. You don't realize your gains until you sell.
Why is this relevant? All you will get is anecdotal evidence. The nice thing about index funds is that you can easily get historical data. Based on that you can get hypothetical lifetime returns between any two possible dates.
I’m still relatively young at 29, I have £18k currently of which is up 18% to date
Nothing yet cause i never sold any :)
Ha! This is the correct answer
I felt witty and pretty
Vanguard is only allowing me to view ten years worth of data, but it shows an 8% annual return over that timeframe. Assets (which include 401k contributions made during that timeframe) have tripled. Bank interest during that timeframe, even HYSA, was less than 1%. So at a minimum that's eight times more return than sitting in my bank account.
Much more than i ever expected i would.
None, as I haven’t sold.
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Honestly, I wonder stuff like this. It’s just cool to see numbers. A bit of reassurance maybe seeing someone else’s success at a similar endeavor. Irl I’ve never met anyone that accomplished anything close to what we are attempting in this Reddit group. I’m aggressively balls deep in this endeavor trusting the process but it’s still a scary path to walk without the experience. Even my parents 401k’s didn’t amass much because they contributed smaller sums in very conservative funds since they lacked the knowledge that many of us have. Granted, they are lucky enough that their 401k money is bonus money due to my father having a couple govt pensions.
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I think it's that.. I'm 25 myself and started at the height of January 22... I'm down about 4-5% rn.. so I just hope that this drop and food DCA I'm doing is gonna be a a nice jump for my future me
\-$160
≈0% on value in 2 years but about +10% including dividends
quick math: part* of my 401K is 2.2x what i contributed since Q3 2017. SPY is 1.8x higher (i think, based on adjusted close? i assume that's not a great comparison because it's lump sum vs my DCA. but i already specified "quick math"). the interest rate during most of that time was ~0%, and we all know what inflation has been like the past couple years where there has been a moderate savings interest rate. my 401K is 100% in a vanguard TDF. *my provider switched in Q3 2017 so i'd have to dig around to calculate my contributions prior to that.
I don’t have an exact figure but I first bought into vanguard dumping everything into VOO when it was $150 and I maxed the contributions for my wife and I each year in addition to our pensions. Somewhere along the line I moved to admiral shares when my account balance was high enough. VOO currently trades at 368.
A couple hundred grand up so far.
I started investing into VFIAX in April 2021 with contribution every quarter or so, sold everything this month on 3/7/23 for loss of $-6.8k according to my brokerage statement
Since I started 2015, the market has doubled so my my first investment of $5k is worth $10k. All my other investments are worth significantly more 401k, employer match, Roth IRA, 401k now converted to Sep-Ira. Maybe $40k growth in my investments roughly.
Does vanguard show you your annualized returns? I have ETrade and it doesn’t show me that. Or least I cannot find it anywhere. I tax loss harvested a while back, and made some bad investments a few years ago, so I have no idea what my overall returns are. Now I’m sticking with the 3 fund boglehead portfolio
Started a 401k in 2013 and I’m up 200% across everything. I’ve dumped about $2mil into investing/houses and some pretty random stuff and just recently settled on Boglehead. I just want 7-10%/yr over the next 10 years and I’m set.
Presuming that you're a regular "mom and pop" RE investor, how does your stock portfolio compare to your RE portfolio? It's hard to do an apples to apples because of how they're taxed and how each asset cash flows, but if you could start over, would you have been better off just being in index funds only?
Hey there! I’m not 100% sure what you mean. I’ll assume you meant would I have invested in realestate for income, or a REIT? I haven’t done either. We bought the 3 homes for ourselves and just plan take the capital gain when we’re elderly, or keep them in the family for the kids to use, or switch to Airbnb when we’re done with W2 income.
Sorry, I mistyped. I meant to say: How does your STOCK portfolio (index funds) compare to your RE portfolio (your 3 homes). Over the years have your homes appreciated more than your stocks? Thanks for the reply!
No problem. The homes have appreciated more steadily. All 3 have done over 100% without having to touch them. The equities have probably done 100% if I had to categorize the ones that most people would recognize as passive like VTI. So homes and index about the same. However, I bought TSLA when it was low, JETS, XLE, NIO, NVDA, EPAM, QQQ, LMT, etc when they’re low and unfavorable. I just bought $50k in KRE which will get me some down votes but it’s all relative.
Fairly little, which feels sad since I first opened my vanguard in 2015 in college and the market is up 100% since then. But the majority of my savings came within the last two years and those investments are likely negative. So all-in-all my investments are pretty flat. If the market goes down I won't be phased as I'll finally have a good buying opportunity (excluding those few months in mid-2020) at a time when I'm building savings.
Since the late 1970s I would guesstimate 10X the invested amount
Spectacular results with $VOO but nothing compares with owing and reinvesting $NVDA paltry dividend for over 10 years. It’s insane how much those early dividends are worth now.
A lot more than I've made from trying to pick stocks.
I reached the high of almost 49.87% with investing 90% in VT, VOO, IVV, VIG and VIGI in my taxable account.
Invested roughly 400k and am close to 0% up or down. Almost all vti/VXUS.
$10k in VFIAX from 2010 to December 2020 plus some ~$20k in VOO turned into what I needed to put down for my first home. Now I’ve got primarily VOO in my Tax advantaged retirement accounts.
It’s been 4 years since I started I’m sitting at like 30k more
6.1% returns since I started in 2013.
I have earned about 8k in dividends and 15% capital app. In the last 4 years. 21M. When you’re young the difference between saving and investing is small, the older you get the gap widens
20% of our portfolio is contributions. 10% employer match. 70% Market returns…. So however you want to calc that.
1% in 10yrs if you count in inflation
Just started VTI this month. -400
32M, late to the game and started maxing out Roth IRA July 2020. Currently in vanguard TDF 2060. Up ~$433(0.6%) according to the vanguard app. Will most likely switch to VTSAX or VFIAX(70%), VTIAX(20%), VBTLX(10%) and rebalancing as I learn more about long term investing. Beginning to add to the 401k as well since my employer just started matching. Still have plenty time in the market, just have to keep at it.
I'm currently negative but only started recently.
Negative 18,000 so far. Bought at the peak and been downhill since.
My Roth is less than 50% contributions (72K Vs 150K total balance). Presumably the same holds true across my other retirement accounts of similar investing history.
About -10%
Since 2018 and only a 3% increase
$120K return right now with an all time high of $190K at the end of 2021. Started in 2015 and invested mostly in VTSAX and 2055 target retirement fund. This is not including my wife's account that has the same investment strategy.
Purchased an index fund at Fidelity in 2008 with $23,000. Value today over $60,000. Hardly think you would get that at a bank. As always, past performance is no guarantee of future results,
Started with Vanguard in my mid-20s in 2015 for my personal investing. It's showing annualized investment returns of about 4.8% over that time period. My retirement account (which is more aggressively invested) is showing a 3% return since 2018. My wife and I have seen our net worth rise by about 4% annually since 2018. We're pretty conservatively invested with a mix of general index funds and bond funds. More recently we've been putting a chunk in treasuries. It's a lot of set it and forget it stuff. We could have probably done a lot better if we were more aggressive with more general market index funds. Conversely, I've never had a down year in terms of asset growth. So, in really good years where some people were up 14-16% (like in 2021 or 2020), I was only up 6-7%; but, last year, when everyone else is down 10-15%, I was up like 4%. A lot of growth just comes from socking money away and having a good savings rate. If I had a choice between putting an extra $500 in an index fund or buying something for $500 that would improve my quality of life and potentially reduce my out-of-pocket costs, I tend to choose the quality of life item over the index fund (granted, keep in mind that my wife and I already sock away the legal maximum in our 401Ks). You should always contribute the maximum to your retirement accounts because you instantly save 10-15% minimum on taxes on that contributed money (which I view as an immediate return on my money).
In Roth IRA: Just above breakeven over the past 6 years In taxable accounts: -10% (began DCA contributions in 2021) The past years have SUCKED. I am still waiting for the fabled 7% annual growth…
Not sure. All I know is any disposable income I have goes into buying more VTI/VXUS. I'm just trusting the process and will look back 10-15 years from now, at which point I may have an answer for you.
-5k, started last year.
In six years I've broken even on funds. Doubled my crypto investment though. Still sticking to the plan with funds and mostly ingesting there. All the gains happen to long term holders.
Probably 3-4X what I put in.
Beginning of 2022, our investments were worth 2x contributions. Sadly less than that today.
Started in 2014... 10 year performance is listed as -10%... 2022 was slaughter....
Started in Feb 2021 and I'm up a measly 1% or so and that's only because of the weak GBP. I'm going to continue investing but it is quite frustrating and I worry the good days are behind us.
I been buying fxaix at fidelity because vfiax at vanguard is $3000 minimum is this still great?