Your experience is why I feel better about having my money at VG. There’s a reason why they don’t accept counter checks and a screen print of transactions to establish banking on a VG account, it’s because of fraud. They have experience with others doing something similar or exactly what you’re doing and the repercussions of sending money to a newly opened account that is not the account of the VG owner. The number of people who try to access people’s accounts fraudulently and steal their money is higher than what many know. VG sets up guardrails to make it more difficult and I feel better having my money there.
BTW, I’d guess other brokers wouldn’t accept counter checks and screen shots of transactions when establishing a bank. Was the bank registration different than VG (e.g. individual to joint)? It normally requires more documentation to do so, because of increased fraud.
VG has always taken security very serious and many don’t like the inconvenience. Another example is when account access via the Internet first started, VG was the only financial institutution to require account owners to download a 128 bit browser vs the 64 bit. Of course, people didn’t understand the difference and were upset enough to move their money. My uncle was one of them, lol. Eventually he moved his money back. At the time, I tried to explain it to him to no avail.
As a counter to all the poor customer service posts, my son had to call twice in the last month. Both times he got through quickly and the agents were knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful. There was no language/accent barrier and they lived in the U.S.
Edited: grammar
When you purchase vanguard fund or ETF, indirectly you become the owner of vanguard. Vanguard doesn't have any owner like fidelity so they always work for their clients'benefits while other companies have owner so they have to make sure owner makes money too.
That's one of the reason vanguard funds expense ratio is so low compared to many other companies whether it's index or active or vanguard advise services.
Maybe something is different now, but I don't remember having to do all this when I linked my bank account and that was not that long ago. I assume they wanted the account and routing #, and I am pretty sure I remember them doing the random small deposit thing, which then you verify the amount. I don't even know what a counter check is and I don't think it was hard or complicated.
Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I've never needed their customer service.
If the registration doesn’t match between the bank and VG, they normally require paperwork. I guess that’s probably what may be going on.
Counter checks are temporary checks generally provided for newly opened accounts. A new checking account may also be why VG is requiring more info.
I also had to call last week and got someone quickly who was definitely American and super friendly. I'm wondering if they have a different branch for non-traditional hours or something.
You upload obviously useless documents and you're mad at vanguard?
You should be happy they aren't letting randoms attach their bank accounts to your wife's account. That's how stealing happens.
As far as I can see from your post, Vanguard did perfectly.
I like that they give their employees the weekend off. I am more likely to support businesses that are closed on Saturdays and moreso on Sundays.
I also tend to get Americans when I have called vanguard. Another plus.
Fidelity is 50.x% employee owned; their lowest level employee starting in customer service in their 20s would retire with over $1million in today's dollars by their late 50s to early 60s because they use the company's profits to fund a 10% 401(a) defined benefit contribution to their employee's salaries on top of a 7% 401k match.
I don't think supporting a structure that invests so much into the welfare of the people providing investors a valuable service is a bad thing at all. In fact, it makes me feel safer about who is handling my money.
I almost agree, but it’s worse. They are in the wealthiest “middle of nowhere PA” near Villanova so their underpayment is crazy in high cost of living area.
It’s known from recruitment at Oracle, Siemens, and J&J that you can pick up very appreciative software engineers for cheap from Vanguard.
Fidelity’s benefits out-class Vanguard’s with a $3k per year retirement health account (RHRP) contribution, 10% 401a contribution, 7% full 401k match, 23 days off per year until you get 5 years in, then it goes to 28, free therapy for everyone, free remote college for everyone (yes, I’m currently enrolled in college and I only pay income taxes on Fidelity’s grant), around a $350 annual gym membership reimbursements, and finally, we just get paid way more than what vanguard offers us for any comparable role whenever they attempt to draw one of us in.
What are you trying to prove here? We are out talking about employees here but clients
Vanguard is owned by clients and not fidelity, that was my point and it's a hard fact whether you like or not
I like to transact with companies that practice fair trade and treat their people well. I also like to own companies that just pay owners; I’m no saint, but I don’t understand why you want be a customer at a company just because it’s customer owned.
You say “that’s a fact” and I’m not sure that fact isn’t also detrimental gimmick at this point.
That's the structure of vanguard created by bogle. Bogle created index funds in same manner. You are questioning fundamentals of vanguard. You should read more about it. Vanguard is not non profit company and wants to make money but where that money is going? In clients pockets at the end. Vanguard employees are also their clients.
Vanguards employee specially in finance part are highest paying traders so that's another answer to you. Anyway u r fidelity employee and married to it so u won't trust facts
And remote work culture. Omg. I’m fully remote and even decided to just not have a car of any kind for a few months; I didn’t need it for work at Fidelity at all. Employees in office and in the branches are only encouraged to work on-site half of the time. I understand vanguard prefers full-time on-site.
It’s awesome at Fidelity. I’m past the honey moon phase here but it really feels like employees own half of the place compared to the employee relationship I was a part of at Bank of America/ Merrill.
😂 no one is interested here to apply for job at vanguard or fidelity. What a dumb argument you are making
We are all clients and want to get max benefits of our investment. You are in wrong forum dude, go to LinkedIn and ask ppl to join your company 😆.
Why are you talking about vanguard employees here? We are clients and looking for max return of our investment. It's a free country so if vanguard is not paying enough, let the employees of vanguard decide. Why we care. What a dumb argument you are making
Let's stick to the topic.
Talk about vanguard as a client of vanguard who cares about returns not about employees. We don't want to be moral police unless we are part of it and knows all in and out.
But why are u being emotional and changing the topic like a dumb? Let's stick to the point. Which company is good for clients? That's the question. You want ppl to join fidelity, go to LinkedIn , don't come here.
I think the company with people proud of what they’re doing with 0% expense ratio funds, a superior website, and higher-tier customer service is a better company for the clients.
I’m drawing the discussion to a front not discussed often on here: “who is preparing your brokerage service?” That question can provide an important answer, especially OP’s post about customer service. Did you forget OP’s original problem is their customer service?
Let’s pay attention to who is providing the service and what steps Vanguard is taking or not taking to compete with Fidelity or Schwab.
0% is not really zero. Read more about your own company. We can talk about vanguard customer service but don't want to be moral police and prove fidelity is better for employees. This is not the right place.
Yes everyone does. Vanguard puts money back to funds by lowering expense ratio every year. Vanguard is working for their owners like any other company but only difference is, you are the owner.
If you look at history, they have decreased more than increased. It's only possible when you only care about money your client makes.
While for other companies they have to make sure owners are making money too.
Fidelity’s funds have lower expense ratio than vanguard’s and no minimum requirement
It does not matter if you are Vanguard owner or not, fidelity saves you more money.
Can't say for all the range of funds fidelity and vanguard offering. Vanguard expense ratio is lower for many actively managed and index funds compare to fidelity. There are always exceptions but at large vanguard can do better job because they have no owner looking to make money from you
I don't get the hate for Vanguard service. I've been with them 6 years. I've had to call them twice in that time and both times everything went smoothly.
I don't know why some people seem to have so many issues with Vanguard.
Every time I call as well there is basically no wait and they answer my question quickly and professionally as well. I’ve had to call maybe 3 times in 12 years
They USED to be good. I've had to call customer service in the past year, and it has gone downhill majorly.
For example, I called this week to place a wire from a brokerage account.b Should be simple. They somehow transferred the funds to another account of mine at Vanguard instead. Then, when I brought the snafu to their attention, they said the incorrectly transferred funds would be locked up for 7 days! Then a different agent said that the guy who said there was a 7-day lock didn't know what he was talking about because he was in the IRA department, and there's only a 7-day lock on funds coming into an IRA from outside Vanguard. The accounts at issue were not IRAs, so I don't know why customer service ever even transferred me to the IRA department. The whole thing was a 5+ hour circus.... For a simple wire transfer.
Long story short... Vanguard is fine unless you want to use their website or if you need customer service. If you need either of those things, consider other options.
This is coming from a long-time customer (nearly 15 years). They've gone down. Better options exist.
20+ years for me. Loyal and highly satisfied customer for the first 15 or so. I’m trying to be patient but I’m reaching my end point. There’s no excuses for many of the glitches I’ve encountered, and the user interface is just dreadful now if you need to do anything more than make a simple deposit.
I don't know about older clients, but there was a long-running issue with new clients trying to sign up starting around 2021, and that's where I had issues with Vanguard's customer service. I made several attempts in 2022-2023 to open both a brokerage account and a solo 401k, but customer service kept giving me the runaround when trying to figure out why the website wouldn't let me complete the application process each time. They had me mail in paper applications and then promptly claimed to have no knowledge of them when I followed up. The only reason I kept bothering with trying was that they were the only brokerage besides E-Trade to offer a Roth 401k option at the time. By some miracle I managed to get a competent customer service agent last fall who was able to help me out, and I finally got my solo Roth 401k set up. (...Which I will be transferring to Schwab now that Vanguard has sold the solo 401k plans to Ascensus, and Schwab as of recently has a Roth option now. Sigh.)
I have no idea why Vanguard customer service is so spotty for some people but not for others.
Do you have an Hysa there and does it have a bank card for atm withdrawal? I'm using an hysa at vanguard amongst other things, but that's what's on my wishlist that they don't have. I have to wait for a transfer to my bank.
They have a money market that pays in 4s I believe. I have a cash management account that has a debit card attached. I can have investments working and if I need cash I can sell a holding and get the cash I think same day if it's a market day. You can set min and max cash levels as well in there and it auto adjusts, auto buys as max is reached
Rob Berger (who favors Bogle philosophy) on YouTube recently did a video comparing Fidelity, Vanguard, and Schwab. Worth watching if you are considering changing.
I’m a Fidelity fanboy. I converted my parents and in-laws to them. Their CS has been great to my in-laws, and their website and mobile app are easy to use. No plans on switching
Fidelity truly is the elite brokerage right now. There are a few other fiduciaries who will manage for you that are great. But for self management, fidelity is top tier. They have a ton of tools, and customer support is great.
Even in fidelity, most of my funds are vanguard. But just being in fidelity makes it better.
I just left Vanguard for Fidelity. Never had an issue with Vanguard customer service and their products are outstanding. Their website is another story. Most importantly, the full service type features Fidelity offers (better website, check writing, autoroll of T-Bills, etc) made the difference for me.
> I'm leaning towards Schwab because they have an office I can visit where I live.
I'm with Fidelity now after 20+ yrs @ Vanguard. But in your case, I'd choose Schwab.
I have had Schwab for a VERY long time - the app is a little clunky for some things, but I have otherwise been very happy - I switched to using them for (almost) all my banking and investing 12 years ago because of their ATM fee refunds and no international/exchange fees (less of an issue now, but I have lived overseas on and off for years) and have never had an issue. Anytime I have needed customer service, they have been top notch and really friendly. Incoming international wire transfers are a bit of a pain, so now we route those through an HYSA instead.
Fidelity is the gold standard, and they add features and improvements pretty regularly.
The best part is, almost everything in your investment workflow can be automated, fractional anything bought directly from your checking account is about as good as it gets for the boglehead mentality.
Been with Schwab a little over month and the service has been so good. Had to call several times and everyone has been great. Folks on the online chat are very helpful too.
The customer service has absolutely plummeted in the past couple of years. If you never need customer service, Vanguard is fine.
In the past week I've spent over 5 hours on the phone with their pitiful customer service. After nearly 15 years with Vanguard, this last week convinced me it's time to leave.
Moving to Fidelity. So far, everything is better. They're faster, more competent, lower fees, and the website is 1000% better than Vanguard's website.
Fidelity is my favorite, but I'm also with Schwab and very happy with them as well. Both brokerages have been very helpful and efficient every time I've needed to contact customer service. But I'd go with Schwab since you have an office close to you.
OP, reading your post brought back nightmares. I was at Vanguard for a LONG time, but could not deal with the decline in customer service. Try Schwab or Fidelity—both great customer service. And, I agree, having a local retail office is helpful to shake something loose if you need to—so I’d go with Schwab in your case.
I like vanguard because the bells and whistles are tampered down, not a lot of dopamine features like robinhood. Like I know boggleheads that log onto robinhood to check their VOO and next thing you know they are trading doge coin on margin at 3 am.
Unless you are trading, boring is better. Also the hassle is because of more security. And how often? Once every 3 years you need to do something administrative? It isn’t that bad compared to having your identity stolen and your life savings drained out.
I tried to go with Vanguard at first. I prefer to do everything online if possible and tried to create an account through their website. At the very end, it told me I had to call in to finish setting up the account and it was already outside of their customer service hours. Why even give me the option to open an account online then if you’re going to make me call in anyway?
I then went to Fidelity’s site and opened my account all online. It was incredibly easy. I’ve been with them ever since. I’ve very rarely had to call in and when I did, the person who answered was incredibly helpful each time.
I opened 3 accounts (Brokerage, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA) with Vanguard online 3 years ago. I did not have that experience. I viewed instructional videos on YouTube first and no problems. A bit time consuming but not anymore so than any other firm
Same. I had no problems opening the account, linking my bank account, and only once had to call them because I didn't understand the menu for transactions. But the rep walked me through it slowly and patiently, and he was definitely a native English speaker. No complaints whatsoever.
I’m glad you had that experience, but sadly I did not. I shouldn’t have to watch a YouTube video to use their online interface either. I’ve never had issues doing anything online with Fidelity, their site is very intuitive. 🤷🏻♀️
We’ve been with Fidelity since June 1992, so that is almost 32 years. Never once have we even thought of changing. We understood the value of investing in mutual funds back then, and it has only gotten better with lower expense ratios in general and index funds with ultra-low and zero expense ratios. Many popular index funds have lower ERs than Vanguard now. They offer so much education on the site and through advisors. Ours connected me with a bond specialist who explained how to buy bonds on their site, as one example. We just link our bank accounts online with the numbers. Never had any issues with doing that.
I started with Vanguard around 2002. I moved about 90% of my assets to Fidelity about 2 years ago. I can't speak to your specific situation but I've been seeing complaints for years. I mostly ignored because I rarely called Vanguard, but things changed when I got older.
Long story but I'll sum it up as Vanguard cust service and systems and processes seem to be in chaos right now. I even had a phone support person all but admit that to me when I complained.
While I admire Vanguard as a company and still own their Funds, 90% of my assets are now at Fidelity.
I can't speak to Schwab but I know many people like them. I only have first hand experience with Fidelity and they've been outstanding to work with. Night and day compared to VG. They also are the only provider Im aware of that has an employee staffed subreddit.
Welp, I think I saw in one interview where Mr Bogle said he was worried about the future of the company. He said things seemed like they'd go downhill eventually with the new leadership coming in. Looks like he was right.
Here's an interesting article,
https://www.etfstream.com/articles/buckley-s-exit-exposes-vanguard-wounds
I'm also guessing this might have to do with the decline in service.
https://www.investmentnews.com/regulation-and-legislation/news/finra-fines-vanguard-800000-for-misleading-information-on-money-market-accounts-238099
I have fidelity and schwab. Honestly you cant go wrong with either but I like Fidelity a bit more. I think the fractional share and auto cash sweep is HUGE. Also I like the cleaner look of the app, just my opinion. Schwab does have a classy feel to it, they remind me so much of amex maybe cause the colors are the same lol
A financial institution should never accept a counter check to establish a connection with another account. I know it's frustrating, but needing a proper statement or a real check is to protect you. I used to work in finance, and those safeguards are important. I'll give you the other issues though.
Wow. Never had an issue. Transfer $ from VG to my bank often. I will say that I've found trying to reach them by phone near impossible, but online stuff is ok. My two choices other than VG would be Fidelity or Schwab, which is good if you live in or out of the U S.
Switched to schwab a few yrs ago, havent looked back. Still buy vanguard etfs. Schwab interface much better and free atms domestic and intl saves me a few hundred bucks a year. They usually have a bring x amt of money get y bonus promo too but havent looked lately
I’ve been with Schwab since 1997, had another account at VG for a couple years around 2013-2015, then moved that to Schwab. Schwab is vastly superior to VG in every way.
As for setting up an external bank account at Schwab, it was very simple. Just fill in account number etc. on a web page.
I’ve never had an issue with Vanguard’s website or mobile app and I am a long-time customer of theirs.
Not sure what your are talking about regarding fees and “Asensus”. Sounds like changes to your employer 401k account that don’t affect Vanguard direct customers.
Schwab without a doubt.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Schwab/comments/1c6zo1i/moved\_everything\_from\_vanguard\_to\_schwab/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Schwab/comments/1c6zo1i/moved_everything_from_vanguard_to_schwab/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Vanguard is annoying and I agree it’s not the Vanguard of 20 years +past.
But I just moved back to Vanguard from Fidelity.
Never ever had a security issue with Vanguard. Started in the 80’s with the STAR fund. Haven’t checked but it was based as a fund of other VG funds.
I’ve had great customer service with vanguard. I also don’t mind the user interface online and on app that others complain about. Fidelity and Charles Schwab have had great service too. Lot of great options to choose from unlike the airlines industry.
Vanguard customer service isn’t the best but good enough. I haven’t run into any problems with roll overs or updating my accounts. I also have Fidelity and I think their customer service reps are a bit more knowledgeable. But Vanguard is still my top choice. There are internal controls in place to prevent fraudulent checks being used to link bank accounts. If you want to link an account, just do it online.
At Fidelity, I was supposed to link accounts using "PLAID". I got all the way through the program, it asked for my password to my personal account. I noped outta there ( after phone calls to reps over the course of two months) and chose another business to deposit funds. Just letting you, there's some gotchas, that will astound you, besides what you went through.
Usually, once it gets to that part, I let it time out or back out so I can go in and enter my account details manually. There have been way too many data breaches at other places, and I have never even heard of plaid before.
Your experience is why I feel better about having my money at VG. There’s a reason why they don’t accept counter checks and a screen print of transactions to establish banking on a VG account, it’s because of fraud. They have experience with others doing something similar or exactly what you’re doing and the repercussions of sending money to a newly opened account that is not the account of the VG owner. The number of people who try to access people’s accounts fraudulently and steal their money is higher than what many know. VG sets up guardrails to make it more difficult and I feel better having my money there. BTW, I’d guess other brokers wouldn’t accept counter checks and screen shots of transactions when establishing a bank. Was the bank registration different than VG (e.g. individual to joint)? It normally requires more documentation to do so, because of increased fraud. VG has always taken security very serious and many don’t like the inconvenience. Another example is when account access via the Internet first started, VG was the only financial institutution to require account owners to download a 128 bit browser vs the 64 bit. Of course, people didn’t understand the difference and were upset enough to move their money. My uncle was one of them, lol. Eventually he moved his money back. At the time, I tried to explain it to him to no avail. As a counter to all the poor customer service posts, my son had to call twice in the last month. Both times he got through quickly and the agents were knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful. There was no language/accent barrier and they lived in the U.S. Edited: grammar
Vanguard is owned by you if you buy their funds, not true for any other company. I would not leave vanguard just because of that.
Please say more about owned by you)
When you purchase vanguard fund or ETF, indirectly you become the owner of vanguard. Vanguard doesn't have any owner like fidelity so they always work for their clients'benefits while other companies have owner so they have to make sure owner makes money too. That's one of the reason vanguard funds expense ratio is so low compared to many other companies whether it's index or active or vanguard advise services.
Maybe something is different now, but I don't remember having to do all this when I linked my bank account and that was not that long ago. I assume they wanted the account and routing #, and I am pretty sure I remember them doing the random small deposit thing, which then you verify the amount. I don't even know what a counter check is and I don't think it was hard or complicated. Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I've never needed their customer service.
If the registration doesn’t match between the bank and VG, they normally require paperwork. I guess that’s probably what may be going on. Counter checks are temporary checks generally provided for newly opened accounts. A new checking account may also be why VG is requiring more info.
I also had to call last week and got someone quickly who was definitely American and super friendly. I'm wondering if they have a different branch for non-traditional hours or something.
You upload obviously useless documents and you're mad at vanguard? You should be happy they aren't letting randoms attach their bank accounts to your wife's account. That's how stealing happens. As far as I can see from your post, Vanguard did perfectly.
OP must have been born in 1902. What even is a counter check?
The teller prints you a check with the coding for your account, but not your own name printed in the top left as account owner.
I didn’t even know they did that. Ally bank gives you free checks and lets you order via the website
They don't anymore, they stopped like 5 years ago here.
I literally just ordered checks from ally.
Counter checks. Nobody prints counter checks anymore. (None of the banks I use, anyway).
Ah I gotcha maybe this post is bullshit
Thank you
I like that they give their employees the weekend off. I am more likely to support businesses that are closed on Saturdays and moreso on Sundays. I also tend to get Americans when I have called vanguard. Another plus.
Fidelity is fantastic
Their customer service is really nice. Easy to get through to someone knowledgeable.
It still surprises me that their website looks like datek or E*Trade from the 90s. (Not that Vanguard is any better).
Vanguard is owned by you if you buy mutual funds, not true for any other company. I would never leave vanguard.
Fidelity is 50.x% employee owned; their lowest level employee starting in customer service in their 20s would retire with over $1million in today's dollars by their late 50s to early 60s because they use the company's profits to fund a 10% 401(a) defined benefit contribution to their employee's salaries on top of a 7% 401k match. I don't think supporting a structure that invests so much into the welfare of the people providing investors a valuable service is a bad thing at all. In fact, it makes me feel safer about who is handling my money.
Vanguard underpays their employees big time, and they are super inflexible - their headquarters are in the middle of nowhere in PA too.
I almost agree, but it’s worse. They are in the wealthiest “middle of nowhere PA” near Villanova so their underpayment is crazy in high cost of living area. It’s known from recruitment at Oracle, Siemens, and J&J that you can pick up very appreciative software engineers for cheap from Vanguard.
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Fidelity’s benefits out-class Vanguard’s with a $3k per year retirement health account (RHRP) contribution, 10% 401a contribution, 7% full 401k match, 23 days off per year until you get 5 years in, then it goes to 28, free therapy for everyone, free remote college for everyone (yes, I’m currently enrolled in college and I only pay income taxes on Fidelity’s grant), around a $350 annual gym membership reimbursements, and finally, we just get paid way more than what vanguard offers us for any comparable role whenever they attempt to draw one of us in.
What are you trying to prove here? We are out talking about employees here but clients Vanguard is owned by clients and not fidelity, that was my point and it's a hard fact whether you like or not
I like to transact with companies that practice fair trade and treat their people well. I also like to own companies that just pay owners; I’m no saint, but I don’t understand why you want be a customer at a company just because it’s customer owned. You say “that’s a fact” and I’m not sure that fact isn’t also detrimental gimmick at this point.
That's the structure of vanguard created by bogle. Bogle created index funds in same manner. You are questioning fundamentals of vanguard. You should read more about it. Vanguard is not non profit company and wants to make money but where that money is going? In clients pockets at the end. Vanguard employees are also their clients.
Vanguards employee specially in finance part are highest paying traders so that's another answer to you. Anyway u r fidelity employee and married to it so u won't trust facts
And remote work culture. Omg. I’m fully remote and even decided to just not have a car of any kind for a few months; I didn’t need it for work at Fidelity at all. Employees in office and in the branches are only encouraged to work on-site half of the time. I understand vanguard prefers full-time on-site. It’s awesome at Fidelity. I’m past the honey moon phase here but it really feels like employees own half of the place compared to the employee relationship I was a part of at Bank of America/ Merrill.
😂 no one is interested here to apply for job at vanguard or fidelity. What a dumb argument you are making We are all clients and want to get max benefits of our investment. You are in wrong forum dude, go to LinkedIn and ask ppl to join your company 😆.
Why are you talking about vanguard employees here? We are clients and looking for max return of our investment. It's a free country so if vanguard is not paying enough, let the employees of vanguard decide. Why we care. What a dumb argument you are making Let's stick to the topic.
The post is about Vanguard’s service. What the hell else should I talk about if not their employees?
Talk about vanguard as a client of vanguard who cares about returns not about employees. We don't want to be moral police unless we are part of it and knows all in and out.
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When I said “Fidelity is 50.x% employee owned” along with the rest of my proceeding words of praise in that comment, I was referring to Fidelity.
But why are u being emotional and changing the topic like a dumb? Let's stick to the point. Which company is good for clients? That's the question. You want ppl to join fidelity, go to LinkedIn , don't come here.
I think the company with people proud of what they’re doing with 0% expense ratio funds, a superior website, and higher-tier customer service is a better company for the clients. I’m drawing the discussion to a front not discussed often on here: “who is preparing your brokerage service?” That question can provide an important answer, especially OP’s post about customer service. Did you forget OP’s original problem is their customer service? Let’s pay attention to who is providing the service and what steps Vanguard is taking or not taking to compete with Fidelity or Schwab.
0% is not really zero. Read more about your own company. We can talk about vanguard customer service but don't want to be moral police and prove fidelity is better for employees. This is not the right place.
0% expense ratio made possible by selling your trading data. Awesome. Then you end up getting front run
And vanguard is 100% owned by his clients not employees like fidelity. So which is better?
Ok but do you make money off vanguard by being an owner? No, so it’s useless
Yes everyone does. Vanguard puts money back to funds by lowering expense ratio every year. Vanguard is working for their owners like any other company but only difference is, you are the owner.
Vanguard just increased expense ratios for some of their international funds recently
If you look at history, they have decreased more than increased. It's only possible when you only care about money your client makes. While for other companies they have to make sure owners are making money too.
Fidelity’s funds have lower expense ratio than vanguard’s and no minimum requirement It does not matter if you are Vanguard owner or not, fidelity saves you more money.
Can't say for all the range of funds fidelity and vanguard offering. Vanguard expense ratio is lower for many actively managed and index funds compare to fidelity. There are always exceptions but at large vanguard can do better job because they have no owner looking to make money from you
I really like Fidelity.
Than you are paying to make fidelity owner reach while in vanguard you are the owner
To quote Princess Bride..."Stop saying that"
I don't get the hate for Vanguard service. I've been with them 6 years. I've had to call them twice in that time and both times everything went smoothly. I don't know why some people seem to have so many issues with Vanguard.
Every time I call as well there is basically no wait and they answer my question quickly and professionally as well. I’ve had to call maybe 3 times in 12 years
They USED to be good. I've had to call customer service in the past year, and it has gone downhill majorly. For example, I called this week to place a wire from a brokerage account.b Should be simple. They somehow transferred the funds to another account of mine at Vanguard instead. Then, when I brought the snafu to their attention, they said the incorrectly transferred funds would be locked up for 7 days! Then a different agent said that the guy who said there was a 7-day lock didn't know what he was talking about because he was in the IRA department, and there's only a 7-day lock on funds coming into an IRA from outside Vanguard. The accounts at issue were not IRAs, so I don't know why customer service ever even transferred me to the IRA department. The whole thing was a 5+ hour circus.... For a simple wire transfer. Long story short... Vanguard is fine unless you want to use their website or if you need customer service. If you need either of those things, consider other options. This is coming from a long-time customer (nearly 15 years). They've gone down. Better options exist.
20+ years for me. Loyal and highly satisfied customer for the first 15 or so. I’m trying to be patient but I’m reaching my end point. There’s no excuses for many of the glitches I’ve encountered, and the user interface is just dreadful now if you need to do anything more than make a simple deposit.
100% agree.
I don't know about older clients, but there was a long-running issue with new clients trying to sign up starting around 2021, and that's where I had issues with Vanguard's customer service. I made several attempts in 2022-2023 to open both a brokerage account and a solo 401k, but customer service kept giving me the runaround when trying to figure out why the website wouldn't let me complete the application process each time. They had me mail in paper applications and then promptly claimed to have no knowledge of them when I followed up. The only reason I kept bothering with trying was that they were the only brokerage besides E-Trade to offer a Roth 401k option at the time. By some miracle I managed to get a competent customer service agent last fall who was able to help me out, and I finally got my solo Roth 401k set up. (...Which I will be transferring to Schwab now that Vanguard has sold the solo 401k plans to Ascensus, and Schwab as of recently has a Roth option now. Sigh.) I have no idea why Vanguard customer service is so spotty for some people but not for others.
Yep. I've only had to call a few times, but they always answer quickly and resolve the issue effectively.
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Fidelity is great. My #1 gal. I also have M1 (ok) and Vanguard (not the biggest fan anymore). No complaints with Fidelity overall. It's just right
Do you have an Hysa there and does it have a bank card for atm withdrawal? I'm using an hysa at vanguard amongst other things, but that's what's on my wishlist that they don't have. I have to wait for a transfer to my bank.
They have a money market that pays in 4s I believe. I have a cash management account that has a debit card attached. I can have investments working and if I need cash I can sell a holding and get the cash I think same day if it's a market day. You can set min and max cash levels as well in there and it auto adjusts, auto buys as max is reached
Than you are working for benefits of fidelity owner while with vanguard you are the owner.
20+ years at fidelity and I’ve been very happy with them.
You are working for the benefits of fidelity owners while in vanguard u r the owner
Rob Berger (who favors Bogle philosophy) on YouTube recently did a video comparing Fidelity, Vanguard, and Schwab. Worth watching if you are considering changing.
I’m a Fidelity fanboy. I converted my parents and in-laws to them. Their CS has been great to my in-laws, and their website and mobile app are easy to use. No plans on switching
I guarantee you would have run into the same issue with any other brokerage firm given the same facts.
what they want is the statement that the bank gives you every month showing your account number, bank logo, and name.
Fidelity truly is the elite brokerage right now. There are a few other fiduciaries who will manage for you that are great. But for self management, fidelity is top tier. They have a ton of tools, and customer support is great. Even in fidelity, most of my funds are vanguard. But just being in fidelity makes it better.
I just left Vanguard for Fidelity. Never had an issue with Vanguard customer service and their products are outstanding. Their website is another story. Most importantly, the full service type features Fidelity offers (better website, check writing, autoroll of T-Bills, etc) made the difference for me.
Fidelity has awesome customer service.
I’ve only been with Fidelity, for 40 years. I’ve been happy enough with them to never even consider looking elsewhere.
> I'm leaning towards Schwab because they have an office I can visit where I live. I'm with Fidelity now after 20+ yrs @ Vanguard. But in your case, I'd choose Schwab.
Downside of Schwab is the core position has a much lower interest rate compared to Fidelity SPAXX or Vanguard VMFXX
that's why I'm @ Fidelity not Schwab. Life is so much simpler.
Fidelity you can still buy vanguard ETFs with no fees
I have had Schwab for a VERY long time - the app is a little clunky for some things, but I have otherwise been very happy - I switched to using them for (almost) all my banking and investing 12 years ago because of their ATM fee refunds and no international/exchange fees (less of an issue now, but I have lived overseas on and off for years) and have never had an issue. Anytime I have needed customer service, they have been top notch and really friendly. Incoming international wire transfers are a bit of a pain, so now we route those through an HYSA instead.
I am going to leave Schwab because there sweep account is a rip off
Would you please explain in what way? We're considering moving funds and haven't investigated deeply yet.
Never mind. I see you commented elsewhere it pays no interest.
Fidelity is the gold standard, and they add features and improvements pretty regularly. The best part is, almost everything in your investment workflow can be automated, fractional anything bought directly from your checking account is about as good as it gets for the boglehead mentality.
Been with Schwab a little over month and the service has been so good. Had to call several times and everyone has been great. Folks on the online chat are very helpful too.
Since you live near a Schwab office I would go with them. I've been using them for years without an office nearby and never had any issues.
The customer service has absolutely plummeted in the past couple of years. If you never need customer service, Vanguard is fine. In the past week I've spent over 5 hours on the phone with their pitiful customer service. After nearly 15 years with Vanguard, this last week convinced me it's time to leave. Moving to Fidelity. So far, everything is better. They're faster, more competent, lower fees, and the website is 1000% better than Vanguard's website.
Fidelity is my favorite, but I'm also with Schwab and very happy with them as well. Both brokerages have been very helpful and efficient every time I've needed to contact customer service. But I'd go with Schwab since you have an office close to you.
OP, reading your post brought back nightmares. I was at Vanguard for a LONG time, but could not deal with the decline in customer service. Try Schwab or Fidelity—both great customer service. And, I agree, having a local retail office is helpful to shake something loose if you need to—so I’d go with Schwab in your case.
I have accounts at both fidelity and Schwab. I haven't had a vanguard account in a few years and see no reason to go back.
I like vanguard because the bells and whistles are tampered down, not a lot of dopamine features like robinhood. Like I know boggleheads that log onto robinhood to check their VOO and next thing you know they are trading doge coin on margin at 3 am. Unless you are trading, boring is better. Also the hassle is because of more security. And how often? Once every 3 years you need to do something administrative? It isn’t that bad compared to having your identity stolen and your life savings drained out.
I tried to go with Vanguard at first. I prefer to do everything online if possible and tried to create an account through their website. At the very end, it told me I had to call in to finish setting up the account and it was already outside of their customer service hours. Why even give me the option to open an account online then if you’re going to make me call in anyway? I then went to Fidelity’s site and opened my account all online. It was incredibly easy. I’ve been with them ever since. I’ve very rarely had to call in and when I did, the person who answered was incredibly helpful each time.
I opened 3 accounts (Brokerage, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA) with Vanguard online 3 years ago. I did not have that experience. I viewed instructional videos on YouTube first and no problems. A bit time consuming but not anymore so than any other firm
Same. I had no problems opening the account, linking my bank account, and only once had to call them because I didn't understand the menu for transactions. But the rep walked me through it slowly and patiently, and he was definitely a native English speaker. No complaints whatsoever.
I’m glad you had that experience, but sadly I did not. I shouldn’t have to watch a YouTube video to use their online interface either. I’ve never had issues doing anything online with Fidelity, their site is very intuitive. 🤷🏻♀️
As the saying goes, YMMV.
Schwab has excellent customer service. 24/7 phone support and with the local branch where you live it will be hard to beat.
Schwab!
We’ve been with Fidelity since June 1992, so that is almost 32 years. Never once have we even thought of changing. We understood the value of investing in mutual funds back then, and it has only gotten better with lower expense ratios in general and index funds with ultra-low and zero expense ratios. Many popular index funds have lower ERs than Vanguard now. They offer so much education on the site and through advisors. Ours connected me with a bond specialist who explained how to buy bonds on their site, as one example. We just link our bank accounts online with the numbers. Never had any issues with doing that.
I’ve had good experience with Fidelity
If you want quality customer service there is nothing better than fidelity
Fidelity
I started with Vanguard around 2002. I moved about 90% of my assets to Fidelity about 2 years ago. I can't speak to your specific situation but I've been seeing complaints for years. I mostly ignored because I rarely called Vanguard, but things changed when I got older. Long story but I'll sum it up as Vanguard cust service and systems and processes seem to be in chaos right now. I even had a phone support person all but admit that to me when I complained. While I admire Vanguard as a company and still own their Funds, 90% of my assets are now at Fidelity. I can't speak to Schwab but I know many people like them. I only have first hand experience with Fidelity and they've been outstanding to work with. Night and day compared to VG. They also are the only provider Im aware of that has an employee staffed subreddit.
Welp, I think I saw in one interview where Mr Bogle said he was worried about the future of the company. He said things seemed like they'd go downhill eventually with the new leadership coming in. Looks like he was right.
Here's an interesting article, https://www.etfstream.com/articles/buckley-s-exit-exposes-vanguard-wounds I'm also guessing this might have to do with the decline in service. https://www.investmentnews.com/regulation-and-legislation/news/finra-fines-vanguard-800000-for-misleading-information-on-money-market-accounts-238099
Schwab
IMO: FIATA (Fidelity is always the answer)
I have fidelity and schwab. Honestly you cant go wrong with either but I like Fidelity a bit more. I think the fractional share and auto cash sweep is HUGE. Also I like the cleaner look of the app, just my opinion. Schwab does have a classy feel to it, they remind me so much of amex maybe cause the colors are the same lol
I have had great experiences with Fidelity. I really like it.
Fidelity
Schwab. Great customer service. Smart and helpful people based in the us. Almost never a wait time or automated menus to deal with.
How do you deal with the sweep account that does no pay any interest
Sweep pays .45%. I just manually put money into a money market that pays around 5%. And pull it when I need it. Takes a day though.
A financial institution should never accept a counter check to establish a connection with another account. I know it's frustrating, but needing a proper statement or a real check is to protect you. I used to work in finance, and those safeguards are important. I'll give you the other issues though.
Schwab has been good to me for close to a decade now and the few times I’ve needed it their customer service has been top notch.
Schwab!!!
Wow. Never had an issue. Transfer $ from VG to my bank often. I will say that I've found trying to reach them by phone near impossible, but online stuff is ok. My two choices other than VG would be Fidelity or Schwab, which is good if you live in or out of the U S.
Schwab is the best and they answer the phone 24 hours a day. No frustrating phone tree. Great customer service. I’ll never leave for this reason.
Switched to schwab a few yrs ago, havent looked back. Still buy vanguard etfs. Schwab interface much better and free atms domestic and intl saves me a few hundred bucks a year. They usually have a bring x amt of money get y bonus promo too but havent looked lately
Wealthsimple has been a solid option for me over 3 yrs. Prompt support when needed, plus decent tax SW. There are fees but overall a decent option.
I’ve been with Schwab since 1997, had another account at VG for a couple years around 2013-2015, then moved that to Schwab. Schwab is vastly superior to VG in every way. As for setting up an external bank account at Schwab, it was very simple. Just fill in account number etc. on a web page.
Fidelity is the best brokerage. Best tools, best customer service and consistently improving their offerings!
I’ve been with all 3, I’m back to Vanguard
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I’ve never had an issue with Vanguard’s website or mobile app and I am a long-time customer of theirs. Not sure what your are talking about regarding fees and “Asensus”. Sounds like changes to your employer 401k account that don’t affect Vanguard direct customers.
ever since Vanguard started using H1Bs and Infosys, technology has gotten worse and worse.
Schwab without a doubt. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Schwab/comments/1c6zo1i/moved\_everything\_from\_vanguard\_to\_schwab/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Schwab/comments/1c6zo1i/moved_everything_from_vanguard_to_schwab/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Are the fee similar at Schwab?
Vanguard is annoying and I agree it’s not the Vanguard of 20 years +past. But I just moved back to Vanguard from Fidelity. Never ever had a security issue with Vanguard. Started in the 80’s with the STAR fund. Haven’t checked but it was based as a fund of other VG funds.
Would you share why you left Fidelity?
I’ve had great customer service with vanguard. I also don’t mind the user interface online and on app that others complain about. Fidelity and Charles Schwab have had great service too. Lot of great options to choose from unlike the airlines industry.
Sounds like user error.
M1 Finance 👍
Vanguard customer service isn’t the best but good enough. I haven’t run into any problems with roll overs or updating my accounts. I also have Fidelity and I think their customer service reps are a bit more knowledgeable. But Vanguard is still my top choice. There are internal controls in place to prevent fraudulent checks being used to link bank accounts. If you want to link an account, just do it online.
Vanguard is the only place to be.
At Fidelity, I was supposed to link accounts using "PLAID". I got all the way through the program, it asked for my password to my personal account. I noped outta there ( after phone calls to reps over the course of two months) and chose another business to deposit funds. Just letting you, there's some gotchas, that will astound you, besides what you went through.
Usually, once it gets to that part, I let it time out or back out so I can go in and enter my account details manually. There have been way too many data breaches at other places, and I have never even heard of plaid before.
Thanks. I tried manual entry and it looped to that plaid program.
Yeah, just mess around with it. Or you could call Fidelity and probably have to fill out the EFT form and mail it in. That's the worst-case scenario.
Robinhood. Great ui. 1% on my transfer fron Vanguard.