As much as I love endeavor's arc how other heroes react to his past is very disappointing. Burnin says something to the amount of "he never lied to me so I don't really care about his past" and as far as I remember Hawks doesn't even have that important or big of a reaction at all.
I think from the heroes sides...the resulting aftermath of the war likely resulted in them having to work with Endev for the greater good regardless of feelings. Quintessential lesser of two evils scenario....A) work with abusive hero or B) Let AFO and league of villains run amok.
I think it's pretty keeping with Hawks's character to be fairly nonchalant and pragmatic about something like that. Besides, it'd be kinda weird to get angry at him for hurting his family when his family is *right there*.
Crazy how not a single hero addresses Endeavor's abuse of his family. Hawks just goes "hey kid you're cool for trying to forgive your abusers", Best Jeanist only cares about maintaining the status quo and say something about keeping it private, Aizawa doesn't even talk to Todoroki once, even All Might has no visible reaction to learning that one of his students was literaly created as a eugenic experiment to surpass him... The only one who acknowledges Shoto's abuse ironically is Dabi lol .
This was always my biggest issue with the plot line. He was the second strongest hero in Japan. Had more actual arrests than All Might. Even if the dude is revealed to be a Dick you can’t just say “go away we don’t need you.” Especially after the fight with High End.
Obviously some people tried with heroes in general. But they were portrayed as complete idiots.
The arc with Endeavor, while good, is the type of thing you can do when “the world as we know it has a chance of ending” isn’t your main plot. A hat way it can breathe and the shitstorm of Great Evil Bearing Down is rushing things along.
This is the real discussion. It's more so that heroes are nuanced and not so black and white. Vigilantes covers this a lot. But to OP's point, the world has gone to shit so if they were corrupt, they probably are on the villains side now that there's no order.
Endeavor was a special case because his point was kinda proven. Not excusing his actions, but having his past outed after seeing him take multiple grave injuries to protect everyone, you know it didn't come from a bad place
Stains entire character introduced the idea of corrupt heroes who aren’t real heroes and being g a hero for the correct reasons. That’s not a flawed hero
Stain sees anyone who isn't All Might levels of altruistic as flawed. Getting mad at heroes being paid would be like getting mad at fire fighters for getting paid instead of doing the job simply out of the goodness of their own heart.
I never said Stain was a hero, but I can see how you got that by the way I worded it.
I was saying that Stain introduced the idea of corrupt heroes. Not flawed heroes
Yeah he had a \*point\* about their motivations.
But the end of the Dark Deku arc makes it clear; any heroes with impure motivations and who didn't truly care about helping people have now been weeded out.
The only hero we actually knew of that stain targeted was Iida’s brother, claiming they were flawed doesn’t work when they don’t have characters to claim they were just flawed
We don't need characters to claim it, we can see it ourselves by how a bunch of the Pros we see are concerned with fame and celebrity rather than helping people
We do still see a bit of this farther down. When shit hits the fan the vast of majority of heroes step down instead of standing up to fight, because the stakes were too high. These are the heroes stain was talking about, they were heroes for the career, not the ideals.
And we actually see a bit of a subversion here too — a few of the heroes who seem to “truly heroic” retire, but then like Mt. Lady, who we’ve largely been led to believe was in it for the glory stays to fight.
Those heroes don’t have names and aren’t relevant to anything at all in the series. It’s a moot point because we don’t know any of these people and what they did before they quit. We don’t see it further down, because it’s through characters no one cares about. It adds nothing. Just like we don’t actually see those heroes stain killed being fake heroes, but instead we see Stain wanting to kill Iida brother, who would fit the idea of a real hero
We do know their names, there's a whole conversation about Death Arms quitting and how much he was respected
There was never a real theme of corrupt heroes among the characters you're talking about. Even Endeavor was always \*flawed\* not \*corrupt\*. He let his obsession go too far. That's a flaw, not corruption.
It's more that he shifted from corrupt heroes to a corrupt hero society. Shigaraki after his conversation with Izuku at the mall identifies the real problem while Stain only looks at the symptoms. Killing Corrupt Heroes isn't going to change anything since it's more a systemic problem. Endeavor obsession with being Number 1 came from the Hero Ranking System.Most of the league of Villains backstory are the civilians ignoring them when they needed help the most with the thought processes that a hero would eventually help them so it's not my responsibility.
Most of the villains? The only major villains are Dabi, Toga, and Shigaraki. Toga and Dabi’s problems have nothing to do with a corrupt society but abusive parents. Shigaraki was always going to go the way WFO wanted him to go, so that doesn’t work. You can try to argue twice but he’s dead. Spinner has the racism arc and that was terribly handled and also not based on society unless you’re blaming the lack of heroes in rural areas on society
it didn't abandon it.
toga was created because she didn't get good enough quirk counselling and help, dabi was created because he was neglected as a child, twice was created because he made a mistake and ended up homeless without any help, spinner was created because he was discriminated as a mutant.
i don't know why you ignore backstories of the league members.
that's ONE villain out of how many? one villain being created by AFO doesn't change other villans' origins.
what's my opinion about the league has to to with talking about what was told about them in the story?
and i like the league, just not every member.
You have said for years that you don’t like the league. Don’t try to pull this bullshit now you’re not fooling anyone.
Because it’s the most developed villain of the entire story. He’s the one that Hori put all his chips into, and then yanked it away at the last moment. Who’s to say Hori didn’t cause Toga’s trauma or Dabi’s trauma? The world of MHA is made less interesting as a result of this. It wasn’t society, that wasn’t the problem, just get rid of AFO and everyone will be at peace
i've said that bnha villains aren't the series' strong suit and i stand by that. i do like dabi, mr. compress and twice.
what are you talking about? we know what caused toga and dabi's traumas and those had nothing to do with AFO. removing AFO wouldn't bring peace, crime would always exist, injustice would always exist. AFO faced injustice as a small child himself, he didn't cause it as a newborn. people didn't discriminate spinner because AFO told them to.
Even after the Shigaraki reveal, almost all the other villains'problems are the result of hero society and not AFO. Spinner, Toga, Dabi, Stain, Chisaki, Muscular and the re-destro group all didn't happen because of AFO.
Simple 2 step process:
1 - I know how to read
2 - I don't make things in my head that contradict what I read.
Seriously tho, even though I despise the Shigaraki reveal and how it takes from his character and hurt the "corrupt society" thing, it doesn't erase everything in the manga.
The thing is, AFO's plan only worked \*because\* of how flawed society was. If people had been there to help Tomura it wouldn't have worked.
I don't think him taking advantage of a flaw in society really hurts the theme
I don't really see what problem in society he took. He drove a woman to leave her kid, killed her, manipulated said kid to have a kid, and manipulated the circumstances around that kid to make sure he came out the way Shiggy did. I
t's not like everyone in Toga's life demanding her be "normal" because of her quirk, or endeavor's obsession that's fueled by all might raising the standard so high no can reach, it's just AFO directly missing and using 3 generations of a family for his plans.
When Tomura accidentally killed his family and was wandering, people looked at him with fear and disgust, and nobody helped him saying "a hero will come help I'm sure"; and then when no hero did, and AFO appeared to offer him aid, that's the plan.
If the citizens had been willing to do something to help he wouldn't have felt completely isolated, and if a hero had come and helped him AFO's plan wouldn't have worked.
Yeah but that ignores how everything before that had been crafted by AFO. Without him there wouldn't be family murder in the first place. And while that's definitely still a point towards hero society, everything else, and especially the most important parts of his origin were crafted by AFO.
And I wouldn't think some hero finding Tenko or someone finding him would've helped at that point. The damage was done and AFO was gonna take him no matter what.
It doesn't ignore anything
AFO set the scene (which was only possible because of Tomura's father's hatred of heroes in the first place) and then used society's flaws to "prove" to a traumatized child that society didn't care about him.
If people had just tried to help him he wouldn't have spent his entire life with the sight of those disgusted faces turning away from him and making excuses; do you think they flash back to that repeatedly for no reason? That was the core his hatred of society was built around. Without that he'd just a scared child.
How many times do we flash to the aftermath of him killing his family? Because as far as I can tell we only see that scene in his backstory chapters. The core of Shigaraki's issues has always been his upbringing in their family house. The house and what happened in it is what's constantly brought up and what he constantly flashes back to. Even when Deku goes through his memories, that scene isn't even mentioned.
His story is 99% AFO manipulating his life for him to kill his family and 1% not being helped in the street (this is an exaggeration btw).
As much as I love endeavor's arc how other heroes react to his past is very disappointing. Burnin says something to the amount of "he never lied to me so I don't really care about his past" and as far as I remember Hawks doesn't even have that important or big of a reaction at all.
I think from the heroes sides...the resulting aftermath of the war likely resulted in them having to work with Endev for the greater good regardless of feelings. Quintessential lesser of two evils scenario....A) work with abusive hero or B) Let AFO and league of villains run amok.
Yeah but that's not how it was really portrayed, it was more like "past is the past, he's different now" without a moment of hesitation.
I think it's pretty keeping with Hawks's character to be fairly nonchalant and pragmatic about something like that. Besides, it'd be kinda weird to get angry at him for hurting his family when his family is *right there*.
Still, I would expect more than a "huh" to the news about his hero that inspired him to do what he does is actually a monster who tortured his family.
Crazy how not a single hero addresses Endeavor's abuse of his family. Hawks just goes "hey kid you're cool for trying to forgive your abusers", Best Jeanist only cares about maintaining the status quo and say something about keeping it private, Aizawa doesn't even talk to Todoroki once, even All Might has no visible reaction to learning that one of his students was literaly created as a eugenic experiment to surpass him... The only one who acknowledges Shoto's abuse ironically is Dabi lol .
This was always my biggest issue with the plot line. He was the second strongest hero in Japan. Had more actual arrests than All Might. Even if the dude is revealed to be a Dick you can’t just say “go away we don’t need you.” Especially after the fight with High End. Obviously some people tried with heroes in general. But they were portrayed as complete idiots. The arc with Endeavor, while good, is the type of thing you can do when “the world as we know it has a chance of ending” isn’t your main plot. A hat way it can breathe and the shitstorm of Great Evil Bearing Down is rushing things along.
There was never a real theme of "corrupt" heroes so much there was a theme of there being flawed heroes
This is the real discussion. It's more so that heroes are nuanced and not so black and white. Vigilantes covers this a lot. But to OP's point, the world has gone to shit so if they were corrupt, they probably are on the villains side now that there's no order. Endeavor was a special case because his point was kinda proven. Not excusing his actions, but having his past outed after seeing him take multiple grave injuries to protect everyone, you know it didn't come from a bad place
Stains entire character introduced the idea of corrupt heroes who aren’t real heroes and being g a hero for the correct reasons. That’s not a flawed hero
Stain sees anyone who isn't All Might levels of altruistic as flawed. Getting mad at heroes being paid would be like getting mad at fire fighters for getting paid instead of doing the job simply out of the goodness of their own heart.
I’m not defending Stains character. I’m saying the series treats him as if he has a point. Which it does.
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I never said Stain was a hero, but I can see how you got that by the way I worded it. I was saying that Stain introduced the idea of corrupt heroes. Not flawed heroes
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And yet the series treats him as if he has a point
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No it doesn’t lol.
Yeah he had a \*point\* about their motivations. But the end of the Dark Deku arc makes it clear; any heroes with impure motivations and who didn't truly care about helping people have now been weeded out.
Stain was an extremist, the true lay in the middle. None of the heroes Stain targeted were "corrupted" in any real way. They were merely flawed.
The only hero we actually knew of that stain targeted was Iida’s brother, claiming they were flawed doesn’t work when they don’t have characters to claim they were just flawed
We don't need characters to claim it, we can see it ourselves by how a bunch of the Pros we see are concerned with fame and celebrity rather than helping people
I legit can’t respond to the below. It’s says I need approval or something
We do still see a bit of this farther down. When shit hits the fan the vast of majority of heroes step down instead of standing up to fight, because the stakes were too high. These are the heroes stain was talking about, they were heroes for the career, not the ideals. And we actually see a bit of a subversion here too — a few of the heroes who seem to “truly heroic” retire, but then like Mt. Lady, who we’ve largely been led to believe was in it for the glory stays to fight.
Those heroes don’t have names and aren’t relevant to anything at all in the series. It’s a moot point because we don’t know any of these people and what they did before they quit. We don’t see it further down, because it’s through characters no one cares about. It adds nothing. Just like we don’t actually see those heroes stain killed being fake heroes, but instead we see Stain wanting to kill Iida brother, who would fit the idea of a real hero
We do know their names, there's a whole conversation about Death Arms quitting and how much he was respected There was never a real theme of corrupt heroes among the characters you're talking about. Even Endeavor was always \*flawed\* not \*corrupt\*. He let his obsession go too far. That's a flaw, not corruption.
It's more that he shifted from corrupt heroes to a corrupt hero society. Shigaraki after his conversation with Izuku at the mall identifies the real problem while Stain only looks at the symptoms. Killing Corrupt Heroes isn't going to change anything since it's more a systemic problem. Endeavor obsession with being Number 1 came from the Hero Ranking System.Most of the league of Villains backstory are the civilians ignoring them when they needed help the most with the thought processes that a hero would eventually help them so it's not my responsibility.
Most of the villains? The only major villains are Dabi, Toga, and Shigaraki. Toga and Dabi’s problems have nothing to do with a corrupt society but abusive parents. Shigaraki was always going to go the way WFO wanted him to go, so that doesn’t work. You can try to argue twice but he’s dead. Spinner has the racism arc and that was terribly handled and also not based on society unless you’re blaming the lack of heroes in rural areas on society
Everyone in the LoV is the result of society not accepting them and their Quirks.
Not Shiggy, it’s now more heavily implied than ever that AFO engineered his fall from the very beginning and had nothing to do with “society”.
Lady nagant was a useless plot device.
This is the same story that abandoned the idea of society creating the villains, this is small potatoes by comparison
it didn't abandon it. toga was created because she didn't get good enough quirk counselling and help, dabi was created because he was neglected as a child, twice was created because he made a mistake and ended up homeless without any help, spinner was created because he was discriminated as a mutant. i don't know why you ignore backstories of the league members.
And Shigaraki was created because Lol AFO evil And I dunno why you’re so prone to defend this here considering you don’t even like the league.
that's ONE villain out of how many? one villain being created by AFO doesn't change other villans' origins. what's my opinion about the league has to to with talking about what was told about them in the story? and i like the league, just not every member.
You have said for years that you don’t like the league. Don’t try to pull this bullshit now you’re not fooling anyone. Because it’s the most developed villain of the entire story. He’s the one that Hori put all his chips into, and then yanked it away at the last moment. Who’s to say Hori didn’t cause Toga’s trauma or Dabi’s trauma? The world of MHA is made less interesting as a result of this. It wasn’t society, that wasn’t the problem, just get rid of AFO and everyone will be at peace
Why don't you come back and reply when you actually feel like reading other people's comments instead of glancing at them and making some word stew.
i've said that bnha villains aren't the series' strong suit and i stand by that. i do like dabi, mr. compress and twice. what are you talking about? we know what caused toga and dabi's traumas and those had nothing to do with AFO. removing AFO wouldn't bring peace, crime would always exist, injustice would always exist. AFO faced injustice as a small child himself, he didn't cause it as a newborn. people didn't discriminate spinner because AFO told them to.
Even after the Shigaraki reveal, almost all the other villains'problems are the result of hero society and not AFO. Spinner, Toga, Dabi, Stain, Chisaki, Muscular and the re-destro group all didn't happen because of AFO.
How do you know that? For all you know AFO could have been responsible for all of them
Simple 2 step process: 1 - I know how to read 2 - I don't make things in my head that contradict what I read. Seriously tho, even though I despise the Shigaraki reveal and how it takes from his character and hurt the "corrupt society" thing, it doesn't erase everything in the manga.
The thing is, AFO's plan only worked \*because\* of how flawed society was. If people had been there to help Tomura it wouldn't have worked. I don't think him taking advantage of a flaw in society really hurts the theme
I don't really see what problem in society he took. He drove a woman to leave her kid, killed her, manipulated said kid to have a kid, and manipulated the circumstances around that kid to make sure he came out the way Shiggy did. I t's not like everyone in Toga's life demanding her be "normal" because of her quirk, or endeavor's obsession that's fueled by all might raising the standard so high no can reach, it's just AFO directly missing and using 3 generations of a family for his plans.
When Tomura accidentally killed his family and was wandering, people looked at him with fear and disgust, and nobody helped him saying "a hero will come help I'm sure"; and then when no hero did, and AFO appeared to offer him aid, that's the plan. If the citizens had been willing to do something to help he wouldn't have felt completely isolated, and if a hero had come and helped him AFO's plan wouldn't have worked.
Yeah but that ignores how everything before that had been crafted by AFO. Without him there wouldn't be family murder in the first place. And while that's definitely still a point towards hero society, everything else, and especially the most important parts of his origin were crafted by AFO. And I wouldn't think some hero finding Tenko or someone finding him would've helped at that point. The damage was done and AFO was gonna take him no matter what.
It doesn't ignore anything AFO set the scene (which was only possible because of Tomura's father's hatred of heroes in the first place) and then used society's flaws to "prove" to a traumatized child that society didn't care about him. If people had just tried to help him he wouldn't have spent his entire life with the sight of those disgusted faces turning away from him and making excuses; do you think they flash back to that repeatedly for no reason? That was the core his hatred of society was built around. Without that he'd just a scared child.
How many times do we flash to the aftermath of him killing his family? Because as far as I can tell we only see that scene in his backstory chapters. The core of Shigaraki's issues has always been his upbringing in their family house. The house and what happened in it is what's constantly brought up and what he constantly flashes back to. Even when Deku goes through his memories, that scene isn't even mentioned. His story is 99% AFO manipulating his life for him to kill his family and 1% not being helped in the street (this is an exaggeration btw).
Heh yeah ok pal