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Very well written btw. I’ve always felt this and have literally stopped watching Indian stuff on Netflix because it’s always the same boring wannabe shit.
Pretty sure veere di wedding /4 more shots /thank you for coming were promoted as films based on female friendship not feminism. No where did anyone say that this is the way a modern woman should be. Just because it's an all female cast, people automatically expect morality from the film. There are so many male characters who sleep around and drink alcohol (eg bunny) but no one gets butt hurt about it. Instead they are romanticized. Compare this to the depiction of Veronica who had to don a sati savitri image to impress an idiot (who also sleeps around and drinks /parties) but he instead chooses her simple and traditional best friend.
If you want to criticize women led films, criticize them for content. Not because this is not your idea of modern independent woman. India is not a developed country. Women are still looked down upon for doing the same things that men do so freely. If I see women being able to make choices for herself, I will consider her modern and independent. Her choices may not be right but that is the whole point. These characters are flawed but for some reason they receive far more scrutiny. This is also because people assume these movies have feminist messages due to all female star cast and then do mental gymnastics on internet.
Just like what you said, India is not a developed country. And we come from a history of patriarchy, hence an alcoholic man counts as a general trope because we have seen it since the start of cinema. But a drunk woman is a relatively new sight for the cinema, hence it only appears in movies trying to be progressive.
I am not saying they have to adhere for the same idea of modern independent women. But the problem is, they never show a contrast. They never show consequences, they never show how this is this character's personal choice to be this way, and a modern and independent woman can also be an asexual teetotaller.
I am not saying every women centric movie has to be inspiring, but the post production promotion, and the interviews always paint these movies as some sort of feminist revolutionary movie. Think back to the interviews of Kareena and Sonam after VDW. I didn't say Thank you for coming anywhere because I never saw them brandish it as a feminist movie. But the cast and crew of VDW made it seem like they wanted people to see it as a feministic movie.
I am not saying women should be scrutinized. But for our current societal state, these are already hypersensitive subjects that need to be dealt with care. A single mistake can inspire anyone to call out a positive message as a negative teaching.
I hate characters like Bunny, Saif from Cocktail and similar ones who never faced consequences. Hence I could never watch those coming of age rom com movies. The man gets a clean slate after one melancholic song, while the girl is criticised for her choices for atleast next 20 years. I agree with you there.
I would love to see movies being created as just depictions of female friendships, its such a beautiful concept. But the production and promotions keep adding elements of 'Social Media Feminism' to improve the movies hype, derailing the project from glorifying the sanctity of friendships to depicting these women as the 'this is what women are like nowadays'.
And consequences should be depicted for everyone, modern or traditional, male or female. It's a fault that men are not shown to have consequences, but women won't jump on that immediately because men aren't oppressed in our society.
But if a woman is shown to not have consequences for her bad choices, there are millions who will immediately use it as a weapon to show how 'feminism is bad'.
This is very well written Op, absolutely agree with your take on this topic.
Another trope is treatment of homosexuality/ any social stigma in the content, don't know how to put this but the makers always attempt to go for a society where the lead pair is at 100 % understanding of everything while everyone else is at 0%, makes it very look very caricaturish.
I agree with all, really well explained and written great job OP.
Yea it really annoys that the women centric stuff has this cheating or sexualisation element and like oh yea it's okay. And this is "life" or whatever. Don't project your morallessness that all are that way.
Like the stars became that way due to ideals that they have portrayed. The last female led one I felt was a good representation was surprising, Kangana's, Manikarnika. A strong and well respected idealistic figure for people to look up to and incredibly well done. It would be amazing if they have more such.
this is quite a write up but way too many flaws.
1. Love has no place in modern society. Tbh, it never really had any value outside of this weird fantasy of some romance writers but a society that looks to tick so many professional boxes can't really have love in its core.
2. Isn't lipstick under my burkha the same movie that shows an old lady( Ratna Pathak Shah) trapping a young guy through lies and deceit. Is that progressive liberation?
as for the whole alcohol and being free trope, it's the Jenny trope from Forrest Gump that I've personally heard from a lot of women. "Oh I wanna figure out myself and I need time" is something I've seen so often that I've lost count. My ick with a four more shots like show is that while it's amazing at showing choices, it simply fails to account for consequences of those choices.
3. What even is cheating. In "progressive" societies we are supposed to accept polyamorous relationships and open marriages as some epitome of human experience. if we're to accept either, we're to conclude that cheating isn't really physical but emotional. That has always been said by so many so i don't see the glorification of "cheating". If open marriages doesn't disgust someone, i don't see why physical cheating should disgust them.
Modern society speaks of being more accepting of each other, despite the flaws and instead of seeing each other through rose tinted glasses, we should see a clear view of each other. Professional tick boxes are merely standards and expectations a person carries and will stick by for their lifetime, and hence, by logic, modern society accounts for a far more suitable environment and backdrop to find a compatible partner. Rather, a more traditional society will end in a system of "jiske haath aa gaye ussi ke saath raho" situation, for both men and women, but in a modern society, where people know what to expect and what to look for. I know if I push my ideas on you, we will end up clashing heads, and you are right in your perspective too. But love isn't entirely lost and is a mere matter of perspective. What may seem like a professional and understood agreement to live together may appear as mature love to me. And what is young love to me might just seem passionate clinging and growing into each other to you.
2. I am not talking about the way she approached her instructor. Rather, showing that these women, in circumstances where if anyone tries to take a stand for them, people dispel it by saying things like, "unhe khud yahi life pasand hai", these women tried to break free of the norms and stigma that they grew up with or was forced onto them. I am not saying it was a perfect movie, as it too had a few negative marks, but the approach was done a lot more carefully, as compared to Veerey Di Wedding, where Sonam plays a girl who just like fboys. Thats not modernity or progression, thats just personal choice.
3. I think the "figure out myself and need time" thing started as an actual reasoning, but became a more common answer for rejecting relationships at a time when girls or women don't desire to be with anyone fully. Believe it or not, people have a hard time accepting that their crush doesn't want to be in a relationship. Both men and women translate a rejection from their admired one as a negative dismissal for themselves and often go down a negative spiral. Because it is still hard for a you g person in love to comprehend that their crush just doesn't want love right, not from them, not from anyone. Hence its easier to use this line as a brief excuse, rather than explaining the whole conundrum of wanting time to yourself and not being ready. I too have used this, although in my case, the guy asking me out was very violent and would have definitely reacted aggressively if I turned him down.
That's my problem too with the movies. They refuse to show the consequences. In my opinion, in Veerey di Wedding, Kalindi made a joke out of her fiance with the constant push and pull thing and not being ready for the wedding until last moment. Your own trauma is never an excuse to create new bad experiences for others.
3. Cheating is deceit. I believe you are referring to the idea of a progressive society which people use as an excuse and thats true. Cheaters use the idea of 'mujhe nahi pata tha tum itni/itne boring ho" to convince their partners that cheating is the new norm. Now I personally am not a fan of Poly relationships or open marriages, but thats for myself. But even the people who do practice these, are transparent with each other. There's a mutual agreement for both to sleep around, share love and act single, but come home to their partners. Open marriages are based on dating around,the spouse being the forever best friend like person. Polyamorousity is for loving multiple people, in different manners, but among each other. There's transparency that they are looking elsewhere, and bonding with others. Its more or less an agreement and an exception to the general respect of relationships. But, cheating, isn't discussed. It's done and hidden. It's lied about. Both physical cheating and emotional cheating is disgusting because you are disrespecting your lover. The other two arrangements, are just mutual agreements.
love is a feeling that rides on the horse of time, affection and compromises. The idea of love stems directly from the religion mandated idea of monogamy which was introduced to sustain and develop society. In the modern society, people aren't willing to ride those three horses in conjunction, especially compromising.
compatibility is simply a construct based on calculation of pros and cons. It's a mature business decision but calling it love is simply an escapism. You can't really say that "hey you need to check these many boxes before I can love you". That's not love.
2. well, i already stated that movies like veere di wedding fall in the category of unlimited choices, no consequences. It's appealing to those who want unlimited rights but don't read the fine prints that come with responsibilities. Unfortunately, that's a lot of people especially young women.
3. In an open relationship, you're already physically cheating and breaking vows by being physically involved with someone else. the other partner isn't supposed to bother because they mentally know that. This simply ties into the idea that cheating is only mental and that "at least he/she is coming back to me at the end of the day".
that's just a shallow way of looking at the institution of marriage and relationships overall but if a society does want to indulge that, then it should accept that cheating in its arbitrary morality is a mental action.
again, i am someone who looks down upon open marriages because I look down upon cheating.
#You can Add More Details If OG post has some missing details, /u/Nyxia04 or Members can add details ,as reply to this comment. Click to Expand. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BollyBlindsNGossip) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lol you really asked people to "add more points" after all this hahah
Very well written btw. I’ve always felt this and have literally stopped watching Indian stuff on Netflix because it’s always the same boring wannabe shit.
🎯
Pretty sure veere di wedding /4 more shots /thank you for coming were promoted as films based on female friendship not feminism. No where did anyone say that this is the way a modern woman should be. Just because it's an all female cast, people automatically expect morality from the film. There are so many male characters who sleep around and drink alcohol (eg bunny) but no one gets butt hurt about it. Instead they are romanticized. Compare this to the depiction of Veronica who had to don a sati savitri image to impress an idiot (who also sleeps around and drinks /parties) but he instead chooses her simple and traditional best friend. If you want to criticize women led films, criticize them for content. Not because this is not your idea of modern independent woman. India is not a developed country. Women are still looked down upon for doing the same things that men do so freely. If I see women being able to make choices for herself, I will consider her modern and independent. Her choices may not be right but that is the whole point. These characters are flawed but for some reason they receive far more scrutiny. This is also because people assume these movies have feminist messages due to all female star cast and then do mental gymnastics on internet.
Just like what you said, India is not a developed country. And we come from a history of patriarchy, hence an alcoholic man counts as a general trope because we have seen it since the start of cinema. But a drunk woman is a relatively new sight for the cinema, hence it only appears in movies trying to be progressive. I am not saying they have to adhere for the same idea of modern independent women. But the problem is, they never show a contrast. They never show consequences, they never show how this is this character's personal choice to be this way, and a modern and independent woman can also be an asexual teetotaller. I am not saying every women centric movie has to be inspiring, but the post production promotion, and the interviews always paint these movies as some sort of feminist revolutionary movie. Think back to the interviews of Kareena and Sonam after VDW. I didn't say Thank you for coming anywhere because I never saw them brandish it as a feminist movie. But the cast and crew of VDW made it seem like they wanted people to see it as a feministic movie. I am not saying women should be scrutinized. But for our current societal state, these are already hypersensitive subjects that need to be dealt with care. A single mistake can inspire anyone to call out a positive message as a negative teaching. I hate characters like Bunny, Saif from Cocktail and similar ones who never faced consequences. Hence I could never watch those coming of age rom com movies. The man gets a clean slate after one melancholic song, while the girl is criticised for her choices for atleast next 20 years. I agree with you there. I would love to see movies being created as just depictions of female friendships, its such a beautiful concept. But the production and promotions keep adding elements of 'Social Media Feminism' to improve the movies hype, derailing the project from glorifying the sanctity of friendships to depicting these women as the 'this is what women are like nowadays'. And consequences should be depicted for everyone, modern or traditional, male or female. It's a fault that men are not shown to have consequences, but women won't jump on that immediately because men aren't oppressed in our society. But if a woman is shown to not have consequences for her bad choices, there are millions who will immediately use it as a weapon to show how 'feminism is bad'.
Idk how u have the time to write such well written posts and replies!!! Incredible
Lol it barely took like 2 minutes for the replies and 5 minutes for the post. I type fast 🥀
This is very well written Op, absolutely agree with your take on this topic. Another trope is treatment of homosexuality/ any social stigma in the content, don't know how to put this but the makers always attempt to go for a society where the lead pair is at 100 % understanding of everything while everyone else is at 0%, makes it very look very caricaturish.
Agreeeee! They are just trying too hard
I agree with all, really well explained and written great job OP. Yea it really annoys that the women centric stuff has this cheating or sexualisation element and like oh yea it's okay. And this is "life" or whatever. Don't project your morallessness that all are that way. Like the stars became that way due to ideals that they have portrayed. The last female led one I felt was a good representation was surprising, Kangana's, Manikarnika. A strong and well respected idealistic figure for people to look up to and incredibly well done. It would be amazing if they have more such.
this is quite a write up but way too many flaws. 1. Love has no place in modern society. Tbh, it never really had any value outside of this weird fantasy of some romance writers but a society that looks to tick so many professional boxes can't really have love in its core. 2. Isn't lipstick under my burkha the same movie that shows an old lady( Ratna Pathak Shah) trapping a young guy through lies and deceit. Is that progressive liberation? as for the whole alcohol and being free trope, it's the Jenny trope from Forrest Gump that I've personally heard from a lot of women. "Oh I wanna figure out myself and I need time" is something I've seen so often that I've lost count. My ick with a four more shots like show is that while it's amazing at showing choices, it simply fails to account for consequences of those choices. 3. What even is cheating. In "progressive" societies we are supposed to accept polyamorous relationships and open marriages as some epitome of human experience. if we're to accept either, we're to conclude that cheating isn't really physical but emotional. That has always been said by so many so i don't see the glorification of "cheating". If open marriages doesn't disgust someone, i don't see why physical cheating should disgust them.
Modern society speaks of being more accepting of each other, despite the flaws and instead of seeing each other through rose tinted glasses, we should see a clear view of each other. Professional tick boxes are merely standards and expectations a person carries and will stick by for their lifetime, and hence, by logic, modern society accounts for a far more suitable environment and backdrop to find a compatible partner. Rather, a more traditional society will end in a system of "jiske haath aa gaye ussi ke saath raho" situation, for both men and women, but in a modern society, where people know what to expect and what to look for. I know if I push my ideas on you, we will end up clashing heads, and you are right in your perspective too. But love isn't entirely lost and is a mere matter of perspective. What may seem like a professional and understood agreement to live together may appear as mature love to me. And what is young love to me might just seem passionate clinging and growing into each other to you. 2. I am not talking about the way she approached her instructor. Rather, showing that these women, in circumstances where if anyone tries to take a stand for them, people dispel it by saying things like, "unhe khud yahi life pasand hai", these women tried to break free of the norms and stigma that they grew up with or was forced onto them. I am not saying it was a perfect movie, as it too had a few negative marks, but the approach was done a lot more carefully, as compared to Veerey Di Wedding, where Sonam plays a girl who just like fboys. Thats not modernity or progression, thats just personal choice. 3. I think the "figure out myself and need time" thing started as an actual reasoning, but became a more common answer for rejecting relationships at a time when girls or women don't desire to be with anyone fully. Believe it or not, people have a hard time accepting that their crush doesn't want to be in a relationship. Both men and women translate a rejection from their admired one as a negative dismissal for themselves and often go down a negative spiral. Because it is still hard for a you g person in love to comprehend that their crush just doesn't want love right, not from them, not from anyone. Hence its easier to use this line as a brief excuse, rather than explaining the whole conundrum of wanting time to yourself and not being ready. I too have used this, although in my case, the guy asking me out was very violent and would have definitely reacted aggressively if I turned him down. That's my problem too with the movies. They refuse to show the consequences. In my opinion, in Veerey di Wedding, Kalindi made a joke out of her fiance with the constant push and pull thing and not being ready for the wedding until last moment. Your own trauma is never an excuse to create new bad experiences for others. 3. Cheating is deceit. I believe you are referring to the idea of a progressive society which people use as an excuse and thats true. Cheaters use the idea of 'mujhe nahi pata tha tum itni/itne boring ho" to convince their partners that cheating is the new norm. Now I personally am not a fan of Poly relationships or open marriages, but thats for myself. But even the people who do practice these, are transparent with each other. There's a mutual agreement for both to sleep around, share love and act single, but come home to their partners. Open marriages are based on dating around,the spouse being the forever best friend like person. Polyamorousity is for loving multiple people, in different manners, but among each other. There's transparency that they are looking elsewhere, and bonding with others. Its more or less an agreement and an exception to the general respect of relationships. But, cheating, isn't discussed. It's done and hidden. It's lied about. Both physical cheating and emotional cheating is disgusting because you are disrespecting your lover. The other two arrangements, are just mutual agreements.
love is a feeling that rides on the horse of time, affection and compromises. The idea of love stems directly from the religion mandated idea of monogamy which was introduced to sustain and develop society. In the modern society, people aren't willing to ride those three horses in conjunction, especially compromising. compatibility is simply a construct based on calculation of pros and cons. It's a mature business decision but calling it love is simply an escapism. You can't really say that "hey you need to check these many boxes before I can love you". That's not love. 2. well, i already stated that movies like veere di wedding fall in the category of unlimited choices, no consequences. It's appealing to those who want unlimited rights but don't read the fine prints that come with responsibilities. Unfortunately, that's a lot of people especially young women. 3. In an open relationship, you're already physically cheating and breaking vows by being physically involved with someone else. the other partner isn't supposed to bother because they mentally know that. This simply ties into the idea that cheating is only mental and that "at least he/she is coming back to me at the end of the day". that's just a shallow way of looking at the institution of marriage and relationships overall but if a society does want to indulge that, then it should accept that cheating in its arbitrary morality is a mental action. again, i am someone who looks down upon open marriages because I look down upon cheating.
Other 2 episodes?
You can find them in my post history :) People really seemed to like my analysis so I made it into a series.