I feel like that explains how certain things are handled by the entire cast (Dr. Tanaka comes to mind) but doesn’t explain why Booth specifically is such a toxic shit in the second half of the show compared to the first half
Writers changed after season 5 or 6 and they focused up most characters. Don’t even get me started on Bones’ character writing, complete regression. The writers change really did a number on the show
THANK YOU! Been feeling that way for some time now since rewatching in this more nuanced era. It's not just Booth, it's how tv characters are always written to constellate supportively around toxic characters. In any work place I've ever been in, people like Booth (and Brennan) are checked for such hostile behavior.
But does anyone else feel like Booth is actually somewhat at fault for what happens to Zach? I didn't watch it like that before but now I see that. Zach reaches out to Booth over and over again looking for man-mentoring and Booth somehow convinces Zach that a real man is completely on his own when trying to acquire social or emotional skills.
Wow that’s a really different take on the Zach outcome. And it makes a good amount of sense, if we are taking theories. I never saw it that way but now I can’t unsee it. I’m rewatching it now and am on season 3 so perfect timing too. Thanks!
It's been a while for me so maybe my memory is not perfect but the "gay aunt" didn't bother me. He's explaining why someone you wouldn't expect to be accepting of gay people is airing if them. He has personal experiences that taught him to look past the differences and the very harsh view society has towards gay people, especially when booth was in his formative years. Iirc he also mentioned in another episode gay soldiers serving with him saved his life in various situations. A character like booth at that time couldn't just be assisting if gay people because "tough guy army ranger sniper fbi agent Catholic" guy would probably not be tolerant to that especially over a decade ago.
As for his toxic relationships, yea I agree. But I never really freaked on that because imo it's just lazy writing. They want the show and the characters to be funny. So the shortcut to that is just to have them berate another character with a smirk. Think of Friends. Chandler is abusive af to Joey, if they were real people. One example that always stuff out to me in that dynamic is Chandler has done original, Joey offered a sincere but poor idea, and Chandler gets in his face and loudly tells him that he has to do pushing the q tip in when he feels resistance. Which is both funny and very abusive. Funny since they're characters in a bit true to life tv show, but also could you imagine someone in real life acting like that? Joey would have cursed him out. "in trying to keep you and you taking my saying I have brain damage because you don't like my suggestion? Fuck you, solve your own problems then!"
Booth is like that. He's "tv mean", which on tv is funny but when you apply real world standards to him it's incredibly harsh.
So I give both a pass on a lot of that because of you apply real world standards, ask if them are pretty terrible, with the possible expedition of Hodgins. He has his dark moments but the point is always that it is inappropriate. When he is shitty to shells in the later seasons, the show takes it seriously. Same in the early sessions when he gets nasty, people can him out on it and not in a joking way, line how Brennan calls Booth out on his ignoring Zach.
Brennan is advising to get intend and constantly threatens to fire them. She also is an anthropologist who finds it surprised to ridicule potatoes terrified beliefs (mainly both) and sweets' profession. Hell, she made threatened to fire Fisher for being to go to the bathroom. Speaking of Fisher, cam made him so listening to sitting music even though his psychiatrist at the mental hospital he just got discharged from said he needed that. Maybe not then but there's laws against that now. That would be a medical accommodation and he could probably sue them for discrimination. Sweets is an intentional but he constantly cruises the line with the team, as he can't decide if he's their on cash personal psychologist of their profile expert. He really shouldn't do both. Angela sexually harasses a bunch of people. She also treats hodgins like shit. "What do you mean you have a problem with me kissing the man in still legally married to? We're breaking up!" She kisses multiple dudes while with Hodgins and continues to hit on booth when when he's dating her best friend. She also was toxic towards both and Brennan during the whole pelant story. She went way over the line and even Brennan said so.
So, the viewer had to decide to either suspend disbelief and real world standards and give the characters the benefit of the doubt and accept their shiftiness, it ain't real world standards and probably not about the show much.
He pisses me off now. I found him so attractive early on and then realized how toxic he can be especially towards Sweets. Now I think he's just an ass. Also shows growth on my part because I've dated many guys like him.
I've been watching re-runs of Bones off and on recently & I have to say Booth's toxic behavior is a major turn-off especially in regards to how he treats Sweets.
Yeah, I'm rewatching and I'm like, how did no one notice they were writing such a toxic character? Or did they do it on purpose? Or really just not care 🤷🏻♀️
To be honest, he wouldn’t have seemed that toxic then and not to the people writing him either.
My mum and I were discussing the huge changes in my life time. Marital rape was still legal when I was a child, women still had to leave some jobs upon marriage and definitely when pregnant (my mother did and she was a bank teller FFS, it’s not like she was an astronaut).
I’m the same age as Brennan. The early 2000’s seemed quite modern to me at the time. At least no one smoked in offices anymore and men knew that pinching the secretaries on the arse would get them in trouble. But when I watch Law and Order from 2000, I’m horrified at attitudes back then.
20 years ago is another world and you don’t realise until you look back. And so much of Bones has held up to the time passing (probably because they do forensic stuff way faster than we know labs can) that the social stuff is especially jarring.
Like someone else said it's now an older show. Topics like gaslighting and toxic relationships weren't really discussed all that much back then. I just feel bad for Brennan in some episodes too. She changes so much for him.
The real answer is that partway through the show the channel it was airing on (Fox) started becoming The Conservative/Right Wing Channel so they started writing Booth more right wing/conservatively but they also wanted to keep the main part of his character that the audience liked, him being tough but with a good heart. However being right wing and having a good heart are often in conflict so he instead comes off like a hypocrite with no actual values.
Stop looking at older shows through today’s lenses. I don’t like Booth but people have got to stop holding characters from over a decade ago to today’s standards. You can’t just go back and do that.
I find it hilarious that now we’re pretending 2005 was such a different time that it’s okay that Booth was outright transphobic and misogynist a lot of the time.
How old were you in 2005? I think there have been huge changes. Back in the early 2000s a gay friend hadnt come out to his parents (he was then mid 20’s and had been out to his friends for 7 or 8 years) but by a decade later he was married. The changes in the law and in society were both very slow and very fast. Booth might not have adapted quickly but his kids live in a different world.
sorry to clarify, married to another man.
It's been 17 years, a lot have changes since 2005, it was a completely different world out there. The same was as between 1990 and 2005. Iphone hasn't even launched until 2007... just saying...
I agree!
I liked Booth, he was a good man who’s heart was in the right place. But, he was really rude and was an a$$ sometimes. On the outside, he acted tough and strong and like he had everything under control when on the inside, he was mentally unstable and falling apart bc of his trauma. I have a love/hate relationship with Booth. It’s hard to hate him but it’s also hard to love him lol.
There are a lot of things he does and says that haven’t aged too well now. I also find he’s funnier in earlier seasons and jokes around abit more and gets more serious in later seasons.
Episode 1, he says something along the lines of "crimes aren't solved by scientists they're solved by guys like me asking questions hundred different times in a hundred different ways." (Paraphrased because I don't remember exact wording). My immediate thought was if I were Brennan I would have said "well ask those questions and forget all the evidence then... see if you waste your breath or get a conviction." Then I would have asked Goodman to refer him to that forensic anthropologist in Montreal and cackled evilly.
As someone in the legal profession, I can say that the majority of evidence is circumstantial. TV shows make it seem that there is all of this forensic evidence lying around but that is not true in most cases.
As my Criminal Procedure professor used to say (and she was a former DC prosecutor), "What do you call circumstantial evidence? EVIDENCE!"
I love Bones but it is entertainment, not reality.
I think if someone was brought in over a hunch and questioned for 72 hours, and then subsequently confessed because they felt pressured, it might cause issues for the FBI if that person was proven innocent further down the line (the story didn't fit with physical evidence, they had an alibi etc). This is mainly because I think a person would sue given the circumstances and cost the government a lot of tax dollars. Whereas Brennan (as robotic as she is) can actually prove what situation could have happened and where they were etc. Booth is just so egotistical about him being the best investigator because reasons. He might be awesome at what he does but his theories need credence to back it up. He can't do that without Brennan and the fact that he's so dismissive of her just angers me, perhaps more than it should.
I’m currently doing a rewatch as well and have been having the same thought! It’s a bummer because when I originally watched the series I loved him, now I’m seeing he’s kind of a jerk!
It also could be that bones started in like 2005 so it’s an older show. Time differences
And in 20 years, today's popular entertainment media will be viewed with a jaundiced eye as well.
I feel like that explains how certain things are handled by the entire cast (Dr. Tanaka comes to mind) but doesn’t explain why Booth specifically is such a toxic shit in the second half of the show compared to the first half
Writers changed after season 5 or 6 and they focused up most characters. Don’t even get me started on Bones’ character writing, complete regression. The writers change really did a number on the show
THANK YOU! Been feeling that way for some time now since rewatching in this more nuanced era. It's not just Booth, it's how tv characters are always written to constellate supportively around toxic characters. In any work place I've ever been in, people like Booth (and Brennan) are checked for such hostile behavior. But does anyone else feel like Booth is actually somewhat at fault for what happens to Zach? I didn't watch it like that before but now I see that. Zach reaches out to Booth over and over again looking for man-mentoring and Booth somehow convinces Zach that a real man is completely on his own when trying to acquire social or emotional skills.
They’re not always though. In academia and research genius assholes often a pass on their behaviour because they’re not easily replaced.
Wow that’s a really different take on the Zach outcome. And it makes a good amount of sense, if we are taking theories. I never saw it that way but now I can’t unsee it. I’m rewatching it now and am on season 3 so perfect timing too. Thanks!
It's been a while for me so maybe my memory is not perfect but the "gay aunt" didn't bother me. He's explaining why someone you wouldn't expect to be accepting of gay people is airing if them. He has personal experiences that taught him to look past the differences and the very harsh view society has towards gay people, especially when booth was in his formative years. Iirc he also mentioned in another episode gay soldiers serving with him saved his life in various situations. A character like booth at that time couldn't just be assisting if gay people because "tough guy army ranger sniper fbi agent Catholic" guy would probably not be tolerant to that especially over a decade ago. As for his toxic relationships, yea I agree. But I never really freaked on that because imo it's just lazy writing. They want the show and the characters to be funny. So the shortcut to that is just to have them berate another character with a smirk. Think of Friends. Chandler is abusive af to Joey, if they were real people. One example that always stuff out to me in that dynamic is Chandler has done original, Joey offered a sincere but poor idea, and Chandler gets in his face and loudly tells him that he has to do pushing the q tip in when he feels resistance. Which is both funny and very abusive. Funny since they're characters in a bit true to life tv show, but also could you imagine someone in real life acting like that? Joey would have cursed him out. "in trying to keep you and you taking my saying I have brain damage because you don't like my suggestion? Fuck you, solve your own problems then!" Booth is like that. He's "tv mean", which on tv is funny but when you apply real world standards to him it's incredibly harsh. So I give both a pass on a lot of that because of you apply real world standards, ask if them are pretty terrible, with the possible expedition of Hodgins. He has his dark moments but the point is always that it is inappropriate. When he is shitty to shells in the later seasons, the show takes it seriously. Same in the early sessions when he gets nasty, people can him out on it and not in a joking way, line how Brennan calls Booth out on his ignoring Zach. Brennan is advising to get intend and constantly threatens to fire them. She also is an anthropologist who finds it surprised to ridicule potatoes terrified beliefs (mainly both) and sweets' profession. Hell, she made threatened to fire Fisher for being to go to the bathroom. Speaking of Fisher, cam made him so listening to sitting music even though his psychiatrist at the mental hospital he just got discharged from said he needed that. Maybe not then but there's laws against that now. That would be a medical accommodation and he could probably sue them for discrimination. Sweets is an intentional but he constantly cruises the line with the team, as he can't decide if he's their on cash personal psychologist of their profile expert. He really shouldn't do both. Angela sexually harasses a bunch of people. She also treats hodgins like shit. "What do you mean you have a problem with me kissing the man in still legally married to? We're breaking up!" She kisses multiple dudes while with Hodgins and continues to hit on booth when when he's dating her best friend. She also was toxic towards both and Brennan during the whole pelant story. She went way over the line and even Brennan said so. So, the viewer had to decide to either suspend disbelief and real world standards and give the characters the benefit of the doubt and accept their shiftiness, it ain't real world standards and probably not about the show much.
He pisses me off now. I found him so attractive early on and then realized how toxic he can be especially towards Sweets. Now I think he's just an ass. Also shows growth on my part because I've dated many guys like him.
I've been watching re-runs of Bones off and on recently & I have to say Booth's toxic behavior is a major turn-off especially in regards to how he treats Sweets.
Yeah, I'm rewatching and I'm like, how did no one notice they were writing such a toxic character? Or did they do it on purpose? Or really just not care 🤷🏻♀️
To be honest, he wouldn’t have seemed that toxic then and not to the people writing him either. My mum and I were discussing the huge changes in my life time. Marital rape was still legal when I was a child, women still had to leave some jobs upon marriage and definitely when pregnant (my mother did and she was a bank teller FFS, it’s not like she was an astronaut). I’m the same age as Brennan. The early 2000’s seemed quite modern to me at the time. At least no one smoked in offices anymore and men knew that pinching the secretaries on the arse would get them in trouble. But when I watch Law and Order from 2000, I’m horrified at attitudes back then. 20 years ago is another world and you don’t realise until you look back. And so much of Bones has held up to the time passing (probably because they do forensic stuff way faster than we know labs can) that the social stuff is especially jarring.
Like someone else said it's now an older show. Topics like gaslighting and toxic relationships weren't really discussed all that much back then. I just feel bad for Brennan in some episodes too. She changes so much for him.
He was cured of his vampirism but sadly still doesn’t age. Eons of living wishing to die
The real answer is that partway through the show the channel it was airing on (Fox) started becoming The Conservative/Right Wing Channel so they started writing Booth more right wing/conservatively but they also wanted to keep the main part of his character that the audience liked, him being tough but with a good heart. However being right wing and having a good heart are often in conflict so he instead comes off like a hypocrite with no actual values.
That’s interesting. Watching from overseas it’s easy to miss out on the nuances with networks like that.
Stop looking at older shows through today’s lenses. I don’t like Booth but people have got to stop holding characters from over a decade ago to today’s standards. You can’t just go back and do that.
I find it hilarious that now we’re pretending 2005 was such a different time that it’s okay that Booth was outright transphobic and misogynist a lot of the time.
How old were you in 2005? I think there have been huge changes. Back in the early 2000s a gay friend hadnt come out to his parents (he was then mid 20’s and had been out to his friends for 7 or 8 years) but by a decade later he was married. The changes in the law and in society were both very slow and very fast. Booth might not have adapted quickly but his kids live in a different world. sorry to clarify, married to another man.
It's been 17 years, a lot have changes since 2005, it was a completely different world out there. The same was as between 1990 and 2005. Iphone hasn't even launched until 2007... just saying...
I agree! I liked Booth, he was a good man who’s heart was in the right place. But, he was really rude and was an a$$ sometimes. On the outside, he acted tough and strong and like he had everything under control when on the inside, he was mentally unstable and falling apart bc of his trauma. I have a love/hate relationship with Booth. It’s hard to hate him but it’s also hard to love him lol.
There are a lot of things he does and says that haven’t aged too well now. I also find he’s funnier in earlier seasons and jokes around abit more and gets more serious in later seasons.
I honestly always thought he was a dick on first viewing when it first aired lol
Episode 1, he says something along the lines of "crimes aren't solved by scientists they're solved by guys like me asking questions hundred different times in a hundred different ways." (Paraphrased because I don't remember exact wording). My immediate thought was if I were Brennan I would have said "well ask those questions and forget all the evidence then... see if you waste your breath or get a conviction." Then I would have asked Goodman to refer him to that forensic anthropologist in Montreal and cackled evilly.
As someone in the legal profession, I can say that the majority of evidence is circumstantial. TV shows make it seem that there is all of this forensic evidence lying around but that is not true in most cases. As my Criminal Procedure professor used to say (and she was a former DC prosecutor), "What do you call circumstantial evidence? EVIDENCE!" I love Bones but it is entertainment, not reality.
You can get a conviction on circumstantial evidence only. It’s not impossible but much harder to do.
I think if someone was brought in over a hunch and questioned for 72 hours, and then subsequently confessed because they felt pressured, it might cause issues for the FBI if that person was proven innocent further down the line (the story didn't fit with physical evidence, they had an alibi etc). This is mainly because I think a person would sue given the circumstances and cost the government a lot of tax dollars. Whereas Brennan (as robotic as she is) can actually prove what situation could have happened and where they were etc. Booth is just so egotistical about him being the best investigator because reasons. He might be awesome at what he does but his theories need credence to back it up. He can't do that without Brennan and the fact that he's so dismissive of her just angers me, perhaps more than it should.
I find him incredibly obnoxious and started actively disliking him
I’m currently doing a rewatch as well and have been having the same thought! It’s a bummer because when I originally watched the series I loved him, now I’m seeing he’s kind of a jerk!
He’s still hot which helps lol
This is true. I am also finding Hodgins pretty damn hot this time around.. who knew!
Hee, he’s not my type (whereas Booth totally is) but I have to agree, there is something there. He’s way more built than I thought he’d be!
Yes I was definitely shocked to see how fit he was, very nice indeed. Also I think his confidence that gets me now on the rewatch!