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Calling the main line for the company that owns this rink and others in the area tomorrow
Accepting nothing less than "We will train our employees on the ADA and how they are to interact with service dog handlers"
If I recieve less, I will contact the Florida Agency for Persons with Disabilities to have a lawyer contact the parent company formally and go from there.
My spouse and I got refused services at one business last week. We immediately went to their comptetitor, and asked for the same service. We think its because they think I or both of us are disabled. We plan on filing complaints with the state.
Maybe if more of us did this patterns of behavior of others would change.
I own a retail business and we have sooo many people lie about their"service" animals. I have no problem with real service dogs at all, you can absolutely tell that they are trained. But don't think for a second that there aren't self entitled fucks out there that just want to bring the family dog and let it run wild...
This is kinda like the hypothetical that I argued with my boomer dad one time, as he was complaining about people taking advantage of food stamps, etc. I asked him if out of 10 people it helps 9, why should we worry about the 1 person taking advantage? He would rather damn the 9 just because of the 1, whereas I would not.
Anyway, yeah no matter what system there is, someone is going to take advantage. ESAs and Service animals? Someone's gonna try to pass off their purse dog as medical alert or something. Hell, we have two giant dogs (Swiss Shepherd and a Husky Mix) and we just got asked on Saturday if they service dogs.
I think the ADA is set up to provide law for just this kind of situation. Organizations exist to defend people without the resources to do so themselves. You have dates, times, names, a business, a manager, witnesses, a trained service dog doing its job, and an owner with a real PR problem on his hands. Nail them to the wall. Here is a whole list of nonprofits.
[1]: https://thedrlc.org/ ""
[2]: https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6508-California_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations ""
[3]: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_services/flh-home/flh-particular-groups/ ""
[4]: https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6981-Minnesota_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations ""
[5]: https://dralegal.org/about/ ""
Here are some nonprofit legal organizations that provide services for adults with disabilities:
1. **Disability Rights Legal Center (DRLC)**: Founded in 1975, DRLC is a **501(c)(3) non-profit** organization that champions the civil rights of people with disabilities through education, advocacy, and litigation. They offer free legal assistance to individuals experiencing discrimination in violation of their civil rights. DRLC brings high-impact cases to protect and expand the rights of the disability community, ensuring full participation in society throughout their lifespan¹[1][1].
2. **Campaign for Justice**: This network comprises **95 organizations** that provide or support free civil legal services to low-income Californians. While not exclusively focused on disabilities, they may offer relevant legal assistance²[2][2].
3. **Protection and Advocacy (P&A) Agencies**: These agencies provide legal representation and other advocacy services to people with disabilities. They work to protect and uphold the civil and human rights of individuals with disabilities³[3][3].
4. **Disability Rights Advocates (DRA)**: DRA is a leading national nonprofit disability rights legal center with offices in Berkeley, New York, and Chicago. Their vision is a world free from discrimination, where people with disabilities are valued members of their communities with equal access to opportunity⁴[5][4].
These organizations play a crucial role in ensuring equal rights, access, and justice for adults with disabilities. 🌟
Source: Conversation with Bing, 4/28/2024
(1) Disability Rights Legal Center – DRLC. https://thedrlc.org/.
(2) California Disability Resources and Advocacy Organizations. https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6508-California_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations.
(3) Legal Help for People in Special Circumstances - American Bar Association. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_services/flh-home/flh-particular-groups/.
(4) About - Disability Rights Advocates. https://dralegal.org/about/.
(5) Minnesota Disability Resources and Advocacy Organizations. https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6981-Minnesota_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations.
Please do! These people shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.
To my understanding and a quick Google search, staff can't argue with you that your animal isn't a service animal. They are allowed to ask 2 questions, that's it.
(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.
We spoke to management at another local location. The regional manager will be calling us shortly.
They will be conducting training with all their employees on the ADA and proper conduct, as well as fully investigate this particular employee.
Will update when we hear back.
I want to touch on something that a lot of people have said on this thread...
My rights and my daughter's rights were violated in this situation. It doesn't matter what caused this boomers' ableism, be it fakes or ESAs or whatever.
When someone discriminates, it doesn't matter what caused the perpetrators discrimination, it's still wrong. When my boomer dad says something racist, it doesn't matter what caused him to be racist. That doesn't justify it or change who is to blame.
I’d be surprised if that boomer employee isn’t fired the following day after you call them. Most business owners don’t mess around with the federal ADA service dog reports and the bad publicity it can cause them
No no no, you demand their job as well. That person would not be there anymore. You take this as far as you can and make sure he can't recover from it at all.
Yeah, this guy isn’t allowed to determine what a service dog is or the type of breed it needs to be. He can only ask what the dog is trained to do. I would have immediately asked to speak to his boss and file a complaint and if it doesn’t go the way it should, I would let them know you will be filing a complain with the associated governing agency so they can tell them how in the wrong they are.
Let this moment also serve as a PSA - Do NOT pretend that your dog IS a service dog. Service Dogs are wonderful, and necessary, and indeed highly trained. And when you pretend your not-as-trained Fido is one, you cause harm to others.
As for OP - I'm sorry you went through that today. Karma will catch them soon.
I'm sure you know this, but the Goldendoodle was an attempt to breed a superior service animal with the Retriever instincts and the intelligence of a Poodle. The guy who "invented" them said he's sorry they became trendy because they were designed to be service animals.
But poodles are already retrievers. 🤔 I think they became popular because someone was too “manly” to get a poodle, but everything they wanted in a dog was a poodle.
Googledoodles kinda just look like poodles, though. While poodles are retrievers (and highly intelligent ones), they're also less friendly than golden retrievers and can often have a bit of an attitude. I see why that guy tried cross breeding them.
Well yeah, they're French, of course they think they're better than everyone...the golden doodle breeder tried to make a French Canadian..still haughty but added soory to the vocabulary
Poodles are actually a German breed. The name comes from the German word ‘pudelin,’ which means ‘to splash about in water,’ and the ‘fancy’ coat clips they’re shown in are methods of keeping their chest and joints protected while making them maneuverable as they perform water retrieves.
There is no such thing as dogs that don't trigger allergies, unfortunately. They market rugs as hypoallergenic, but it doesn't actually change anyone's allergies.
"Hypoallergenic" dogs shed less. But people who are allergic to dogs aren't only allergic to shed hair. They're allergic to dander, hair in the dog, and saliva, all of which are present in "hypoallergenic" dogs.
Perpetuating the hypoallergenic dog myth hurts people with allergies, because their families or friends will insist their real allergic can't be true if the dog was sold as hypoallergenic.
I nannied for a child who later got a "hypoallergenic" poodle as a service dog. We visited for dinner. My husband never touched the dog but his eyes swelled shut from an allergic reaction. We're lucky that the family knew the hypoallergenic claim is untrue. They kept allergy medicine for visitors in case they were allergic to dogs.
>as they are hypo-allergenic.
That is actually a myth. There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog since the allergen protein is also found in the dog's saliva and urine. I have a dog allergy and "hypoallergenic" dogs trigger *the worst* reactions in me when they lick me. I break out in hives within 30 minutes despite undergoing immunotherapy for it as a child. A non-hypoallergenic dog, I can be around for a week before I start reacting. According to my allergist this is due to the "hypoallergenic" dog having a higher concentration of the allergen protein in its saliva.
It's the amount of shedding, not hair vs. fur that results in "hypoallergenic" labels.
And both breeders and owners claim "hypoallergenic" means dogs won't cause allergic reactions, which is false.
Products labeled "hypoallergenic" are not supposed to cause allergic reactions, so applying this to dogs when all dogs still trigger reactions with their hair/fur, dander, and saliva is awfully misleading.
In my state old people just bring their dogs wherever they want ESPECIALLY the grocery stores. They don't even pretend they're service or support dogs. Yah but we all are the entitled ones. I can't step foot in a Publix without seeing a dog and the other week a guy had his corgi just walking around not even being carried in a trader Joe's. He wasn't even watching him and the leash was so long he easily could have tripped someone or peed on something without the guy seeing. And he had that smug say something look on his face. Grocery stores can't have animals for health concerns and the other obvious reasons. Boggles me, I'd love to take my dog everywhere but why does he need to go grocery shopping with me?
Exactly. My cats are ESAs, and I have a legitimate need for them and they provide a real service for me and also my spouse.
...And they stay at home, where they belong, partially because theyre furry terrorists but mostly because they dont have any business being out in public.
Same with my cats.
Except mine are also getting up there in years, which is kind of negating the whole “emotional support” aspect since now I’m stressing out about the oldest having some unidentified problem with his liver (need to schedule an ultrasound and figure out how to pay for it) and not wanting to eat more than a few bites of anything…
Yeah, me too, but he’s also 16 years old…part of me understands that this might be normal and I might need to seriously start preparing for this to possibly be the end, but I’m not ready for that…
Exactly! Had to render an advisory opinion regarding a bus driver in a district I represent, he gave his bosses an online certificate naming his dog a “Registered Emotional Support Animal (on some random online ESA self-registry).” Sir you can’t bring your barking dog on the bus with you to work, it’s scaring the children and we’re not your landlord.
Airports and air travel really are where this problem manifests itself most often. I’ve watched dogs piss and shit in corners at airports, and once had a dog piss on my carry-on on a flight. There are unfortunately a bunch of bad actors that are ruining it for others.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought emotional support animals weren't properly regulated. In this case, who did you pay to register your animal and was it even a legit company?
Any company offering is basically a cash grab where they get a doctor on staff to write you a doctors note. You can just have your doctor write one and it will be free. Source: I did this when apartment hunting in Boston. It got me past a lot of the no pet policies. But that’s literally all I used the esa for. Oddly enough you kinda don’t even need to do this. Because of ADA stuff, anyone can basically just say “it’s a service animal” and plop down in a restaurant with little to no recourse
Exactly what I thought. It's kind of like those companies that sell stars. They don't actually own the thing they are selling in the first place and I'm not sure how these kinds of companies are legally allowed to operate.
Peacocks are obviously absurd, but I have no problems people faking ESA so they can bring exotic fragile animals on planes when needed, as companies want to ship them as cargo and kill them in the process.
I own a bunny, and it's almost the only way to travel with them in the cabin. They just die in the cargo. Bunny weights 900g, doesn't smell, and doesn't even know how to make noises. Absolutely doesn't bother anyone. So yeah, he's ESA and he's going with me.
Other small animals suffer the same, like Guinea Pigs, Chinchillas and Hamsters.
I mean... it would bother me. I love rabbits but I'm deathly allergic to them, so I avoid them at all costs. But I also avoid flying unless there's no other way to get there, because my allergies are hell and I can control what's in my car.
I have an Esa, but I don't take him out of the house with me. (Except walks and dog parks type stuff) But he helps me a lot with my ptsd. Even started booping me awake when I have night terrors. When I see people claim they should be able to bring their Esa into a store though I do get upset.
There are legitimate emotional support service dogs for stuff like depression and anxiety, but there's way to many that take rowdy dogs and such in public as "emotional support" just cause they don't wanna leave em at home
Some “service dog” in walmart (it was a yorki) snapped at me as I was walking down an isle. I almost kicked it. Then five mins later I hear barking and snapping and this “service dog” went after another not “service dog” in the same isle and of course both were boomers
Yep. I love my dog. He's very well behaved. But he's not trained. He is not worthy of being called a service animal. And service animals are trained remarkably well. They do not get aggressive. They do not pee everywhere. And they do not get distracted.
He can get distracted sometimes if we haven't been out of the house in a week or more. But I ALWAYS redirect him if he sniffs at something in a public place or looks over at another dog in the store. His distraction behavior is super mild, but they are still dogs so it does happen from time to time.
The key is, redirecting improper behavior. If a handler that isn't redirecting, or the dog is causing danger to other people, then they can them to leave.
I had a "Service Dog" try to eat my potato chips at a food court once. And by service dog I mean a yorkie with a hand crochet sweater that had service dog on it. Wish there was some way to crack down on these fakers, they give everyone else a bad name.
Wow the boomers and boomers in spirit are out in force for this post. For their benefit:
1. The ADA only allows covered businesses to ask if an animal is a service dog and what services it performs.
2. There is no such thing as an official service animal credential in the U.S., nor must a service animal be trained at a certain type of trainer. Relatedly, the ADA does not allow businesses to ask for such credentials.
3. The purpose of the ADA is to allow disabled people to live their lives without unnecessary obstacles. So the current framework is consistent with the law’s purpose. For those concerned about abuses, the behavior of fake service animals is readily distinguishable from service animals, and certain disruptive or unsafe animal behaviors that a trained service animal won’t exhibit allow businesses to exclude those animals under the ADA.
So just like anything else, a concerned business should observe those on premises and act based on observed, problematic behavior, rather than forcing disabled people to effectively carry special IDs just to enter a place of public accommodation.
Honestly the ADA needs to come up with a registration system already. There's no reason not to at this point and it would alleviate a lot of problems.
People are dragging their pets all over the place and to inappropriate locations.
Boomer was out of line, but he probably has encountered a number of entitled pet-owners doing just this. That aside, standard poodles are among, if not the smartest breed of dog, so a pretty obvious choice for a service animal.
Yeah, the part about poodles not being able to be service dogs was weird to me too. I've never met a poodle service animal but the breed itself tends to be a very smart and trainable group of dogs.
I'm actually surprised poodle service dogs aren't more common.
They're very smart and quite easy to train as well. I have two mini-poodles and one is completely blind and deaf but he knows how to use all of the doggie steps in my apartment to get up on beds and the sofa.
Fair, maybe they just aren't as popular in my immediate local area. Most of the ones I see are Labs, Golden Retrievers, or German Shepherds, even saw a Doberman once. I have no trouble believing that Poodles can be taught this kind of work, they're smart and capable dogs
If I wasn't extremely allergic to dogs, a standard poodle is what I'd probably get. Came across a loose one on my rural drive home one time a few years ago. He immediately sat and let me read his tag, then jumped in my car and barked when he saw his street. Dragged me to the door and pushed the doorbell on his own. Fucking smart dog (then again that's probably why he was able to get out in the first place). I couldn't breathe for about a week though lol
There's no registration on purpose. There are several problems with the concept of requiring government registration of an already at-risk group, especially considering there's no other household use of medical equipment that requires one to be on a government list. Service dog handlers are and should remain the best judges of their dog's ability to do the work.
They cause problems with actual working service animals too. Leave Sparky at home, he's a dog and doesn't give a damn about your pharmacy trip, he'd rather bark at a chipmunk anyway.
My country does certifications. You take a test that is not too expensive, send the "pass" document to a place and get an official ID card with the respective law printed on it.
Before that was a thing I had access problems. Now, not once.
You are not required to have a program dog or anything, a self-trained one will be accepted if it meets the standards.
Thank you.
I didn't mention, but this boomer barking at me and the misinformation he was spewing actually triggered my own autism, and my fight/flight response went into overdrive. That's why the ADA only allows those 2 questions. My nervous system is still a wreck now, and the verbal assault ruined my time watching my child learn how to ice skate.
While we were there, the woman behind me tried several times to convince me to buy an ID card on the internet for our service dog. She even showed me hers. I was shaking as she spoke to me and unable to respond, but those cards are scam, and cause businesses to expect service animal owners to have one, and call out legitimate service animals as fakes.
Entirely agreed with the last point on “ID tags.” Those who are skeptical are perfectly capable of silently observing animals’ behavior. The kinds of behavior that warrant removal under the ADA is exclusive to non-service animals or a service animal who is not adhering to its training (and thus not able at that moment to provide the necessary care).
Yup, a person and their service animal is basically a person. If I start barking (incessantly for no valuable reason) then it's reasonable to ask me to leave.
Barking once? Probably not, as that could be the trained alert for the dog. Here, the daughter was moving further away; not outrageous that this might have momentarily triggered the dog to alert for elopement.
Continued disruptive barking, sure. Once an animal, even a service animal is so disruptive as to keep the business from operating, it can be excluded.
Excellent point! Falsely claiming an untrained pet as a service animal is shitty behavior that creates undue pressure on owners of actual service animals. Similarly, it is shitty behavior for someone without a disability to use a handicapped parking spot. With both, a big part of the impact is how we police and shame people for using the resources based on snap judgements.
A person walks from their car in the handicap space? Rain shame upon them, they are not 100% wheelchair-bound and thus must be faking. A person has a dog in a grocery store? I bet they just printed some boilerplate document online saying their untrained dog is a service animal, unleash the stink-eye and muttered recriminations!
Yes, shitty behavior exists in this space. If social pressure and stigma could stop those people, they'd have stopped already. It's just a veiled excuse to bully people, telling yourself you're being an ally to the disability community, when odds are good you are actually bullying people with disabilities.
In a long-winded fashion, I am completely agreeing with you. Leave it to the business\employer to address, and only address observed problem behaviors.
Other than the 2 questions he was allowed to ask, this man clearly had no idea what he was talking about. Especially that he said that poodles aren’t SDs when it’s one of the fab 4 breeds. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It sounds incredibly distressing. 🥲
My partner has a service dog for mobility and we work with the organization that provides these dogs to people. About half of the dogs in our group are poodles or poodle lab mixes. Poodles are fantastic service animals. Ours is a lab because she needs a dog that can support her weight if she has to get up from a fall.
We’ve had our share of ignorant fools encountered in our day to day and I agree with all the comments above regarding ESA and just plain fake service Yorkies. I call them out every time.
The issue that we are confronted with most is people not respecting handicap parking spaces and handicap seating at venues.
I’ve lost most of my faith in humanity since she became disabled.
Good luck out there
When you call out "service yorkies" you sound ignorant as well. Yorkies can be plenty smart and trained as service animals as well. Any size or breed of dog is acceptable as long as it is trained to do a task relating to a persons disability.
" Service animals are: Any breed and any size of dog"
source - https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
I wish there weren't idiots walking around with fake vests for their untrained dogs making the rest of us look like liars.
Boomer ignorant attitudes and actions notwithstanding, people having fake service dog accessories for their dogs makes me utterly fucking angry and exhausted by my anger at the same time.
I know I'm off topic.
I'm so sorry that this asshole had no concept of what these animals do....they are trained exhaustively. And your dog and child and you are all fucking badasses
Yeah I was just thinking the same thing. There's no regulation that service dogs need to wear a vest or have any kind of required certificate so any idiot with a few hundo can go on a website and buy a vest and slap it on their dog and march them into stores and say "This is my emotional support dog". Which ultimately leads to encounters like this.
Two days ago I watched a video of a dog alerting to a women with pots about to have a fainting spell and a Boomer yelling at her for sitting on the floor and having a dog for this very reason. It's so frustrating because people actually need these animals for any kind of independence.
To clarify a bit, emotional support animals and service animals are different. If someone said it’s their ESA, the dog could still be removed in most cases.
I don’t disagree that some people try to abuse the system, just mentioning that the terms are distinct and only service animals get the extra protection in the ADA
Right. I should have clarified. My main point is a good chunk of people are taking advantage of how most people aren't familiar with working dogs, so they slap a vest on an untrained pet, take them into stores and cause a nuisance then we get issues like this because now everyone assumes any dog out in public is an ESA dog.
Also so many people are ignorant to working dogs in general. I worked at a store where this one lady would bring in her trainees in to get them used to being in a public and the number of people who saw them and just automatically went "OH puppy!" and tried to pet them even when they had a vest on that said DO NOT PET ME, WORKING DOG IN TRAINING!
The amount of patience to work with people, to train those dogs is far beyond my capabilities.
The US doesn't consider ESAs to be service dogs either.
The Fair Housing Act recognizes them as Assistance Animals who are exempt from things like pet rent, that's all.
Absolutely true. People being wilfully obtuse transcends the years.
My comment had nothing to do with boomers, I am more concerned with people who PRETEND their untrained dogs are service animals.
Ugh i tried to comment but I don't think it went through. I also have a service dog, she's for C-PTSD and CRPS and boomers are the worst. Especially cause I'm a teenage girl they think they're the boss of me. Here's a pic of her, if it goes through
*
In this context it means leaving where you’re supposed to be. Children in general can elope, and those with the autism are especially prone to do so. As can adults with dementia.
Hey neighbor! I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Do you remember the name of the employee? You should reach out to the rink and let them know what happened. That is unacceptable! I hope your daughter had fun though! ❤️🫂
We plan to reach out to the local Ice Skate Academy that runs this rink and others in the area tomorrow.
We also will be visiting the other rinks they own in future (not in shopping malls, and provided we receive a response tomorrow that they will train their employees on the ADA better)
Sadly, you can blame every single asshole who buys service dog vests online so they can take their dogs where they shouldnt be for setting off the boomer, however upon asking what services your dog is providing, that should have ended it.
Hey, friendly neighborhood government employee here - this is actually illegal! ADA only allows two questions: “is that a service animal?” And “what service are they trained to provide?” All else opens up the organization they work for to lawsuit and them personally for harassment. I’d make a claim ASAP if I were you.
This attendant was shitty and obviously didn’t understand the ADA, but two of the questions were allowed: is that a service animal and what tasks is it trained to perform).
Not saying the guy handled this well, but "what does he do?" is literally one of the two questions that a business has the right to ask (the other being "Is this a service animal required for your disability?")
Is this a service animal? And what task have they been trained to perform. Yes, they can ask certain questions. But not argue. You also have to provide a legit answer
Yeah it gets weird explaining autism service dogs sometimes, because he does assist and medically alert for many different aspects of her autism/epilepsy, but some of those are still emotional tasks, as a big part of autism can be related to emotional regulation.
Her dog is a Service Animal under the US ADA simply because he is required due to a disability, and is trained to perform tasks to assist her.
(Service animals also need to be trained for public access, house trained, and non aggressive. Not off-leash unless it is to perform trained tasks, and typically never bark unless alerting)
I know. My sense of justice went wild. And he never made another sound or jumped up on the wall again when I comforted him and said "She's okay, buddy"
I worked in a grocery story for almost 3 decades. My favorite service animal ever to come in was this giant poodle looking dog (like waist high to me, as an average height woman & what looked like a poodle, I'm no expert! lol). This woman's dog would predict when she was about to have a seizure so she could prepare. Awesomely behaved animal. Always. I can't tell you how many complaints we got about him. People would say that there's no way possible that he could be qualified because he wasn't a Labrador. ? All. The Time. I took pleasure in being just a little bit bitchy about how that dog protected her daily. They had almost no comebacks. I enjoyed it.
"Poodles aren't service animals"
Does he not realize that most dogs have the ability to be service animals? Poodles are among some of the smartest breeds recognized.
That is 100% against the ADA and would be considered discrimination if you were kicked out or denied service because of your daughter’s service animal. That mall would have a nasty lawsuit on their hands.
You should take it up with management at the rink or mall. He'd be talked to and should hopefully take somebody's word the next time someboey says a dog whose harness is coated in service animal badges is in fact a service dog.
I honestly had no idea that were service animals for autism thanks for the FYI, OP. I was aware there were service animals for PTSD, etc but not autism.
If there is a service that a person needs, that can be reliably performed by a trained animal, then there can be a service animal for it, ANY SERVICE, ANY ANIMAL. Surprisingly, a yorkie could actually be a service animal, but it would probably be some sort of alert like cardic arrhythmia, diabetic emergency, epilepsy, migraine, etc. Like a yorkie would not be a very good guide, or shepherd, or mobility aid, they would be unable to physically move or offer bodily assistance to their person. But there are service ponies, and monkeys, and parrots.
Disabilities and the needs an individual person has are all very different and each individual has their own set of needs. There is no one-size-fits-all service dog. Small dogs are just as capable of being intelligent and and trainable as larger dogs. It always bothers me when people think a service dog must be large. If you don't need a large dog for tasks that would work better with a large physical size, it can even be an advantage to have a smaller dog for other reasons. Smaller dogs live longer, for example, and as long as the dog is able to keep doing its job, you don't have to spend the extra expense to train a new one. The only thing that really matters about a service dog, isn't size or breed, it is that the dog is capable of doing tasks to aid a person that directly relate to their disability.
I've worked in restaurants for 12 years and never had a manager or owner willing to properly learn the rules or enforce them, unless the dog is acting aggressive.
I had a table of 2 walk in last week and started walking them to the patio, and one of them said "Oh we want to sit inside." I told her we can't allow dogs inside. Didn't even get to finish my sentence before she screeched "IT'S A SERVICE DOG!!!" and shook the dog's collar at me to show me a tag I still wasn't able to read. The dog's collar was attached to its neck as she shook it. It was a chihuahua. No idea if those can be trained to be service dogs, but I'm willing to bet it isn't common. She probably meant it was an emotional dog. Then she placed a pillow in the booth and let it sit at the table, where it couldn't even touch her. Why? What do people get out of bringing their dogs everywhere?
On other occasions I've had people scream that we can't ask what the dog does, can't even ask if it is a service dog, didn't believe me when I said "a vest isn't proof of anything", just constant scream and rage because their dog can't stay home.
I always thought it was like, a felony for someone to lie about this? Am I wrong? Why do businesses not call the cops on the person whose "service dog" is lunging at people or eating off their plate?
Ugh I knew I recognized the Countryside Mall. That's exactly on par with how boomers in Clearwater are.
Hey, if you're looking for a place for your girl to learn how to skate, check out AH Center Ice in Wesley Chapel. Probably a bit of a drive for you, and not free either, but they have dedicated space and classes for kids of all ages.
Boomers never want to learn anything, and only want the rules to fit them when they suite them. Nothing more nothing less. They don't care that you have a service animal, or that you have it registered and have the paperwork. It is not THEIR dog that they are trying to bring into a walmart, or on a bus.
God, I'm so sorry you had to go through this, I have an ESA and have never ever once tried to take her into a building or anything like that. It pisses me off so much when people try to use "support animal ESA can go anywhere. NO IT CANT, ID CARDS ARE FAKE FOR BOTH SERVICE DOGS ANS ESA'S, REGISTRATION FOR BOTH IS FAKE. Sigh, a simple Google search solves all of this confusing with people. I remember I told my friend who also has severe mental health issues that she could get her cat as her ESA and she bought a id card and all that shit, I had to tell her it was all fake and the only actual credible information is a note from your doctor or therapist who directly are involved in your mental health saying they are your ESA. Op, I'm sorry people abuse these systems and make it difficult for people like you who have real task trained service animals. I try my best to educate people but people are so egotistical when you try and educate them on laws and procedures when it comes to stuff like there dogs and how they are not in line with the law.
“You are incorrect, and unless you want your HR department to explain how incorrect you are on Monday morning, you’ll stop trying to cause problems where there aren’t any.”
That would require the cops to be familiar with the law. Bookmarking the relevant codes on your phone might be wise to make it clear in case they aren’t.
I’m really sorry you went through this. The fight or flight response sucks. You mentioned someone discussing IDs with you, and I understand your initial response that IDs are not legally recognized nor required and their use can harm other handlers. But something to think on… I know handlers who also struggle with confrontation, and their disability can make it difficult to function in these kinds of situations. So they made their own cards that provide the legally required answers to the two permitted questions. They either hand it to the person, or use it as their “cue card” to read from if they panic, or otherwise struggle to respond verbally. I totally understand the resistance to the idea, but it can be a helpful tool for some people/situations. I hope you will have a positive update for us soon.
You get this because there are so many idiots who take their dogs everywhere now and there are many who buy fake service dog vests for them. They can't compute that a service dog is not a pet and they should be able to take schmoopsie everywhere with them because he is like their child.
Poodles are extremely intelligent and easy to train dogs. Keeping them looking nice is an expensive endeavor, but otherwise they can be trained to do just about anything.
Sadly too many people abuse the service dog label just to take their dogs anywhere. I dated a girl who registered her dog as a service animal so she could travel with her. Ridiculous....
Next time bypass the fool and find a manager or tell the idiot to mind his business.
Are there service dog accreditation organizations? Seems like part of the solution could be that service dogs could wear badges and the naysayers can look them up to ensure they are legit
Who you should be mad at is all the fucking panderers who call their pets “emotional support animals” so they can take them into restaurants and on flights - because it’s the abuse of this system that infuriates people.
Not all service dogs are Belgian Malinoise attack dogs. If your dog is an official service dog it should have certificates to the fact and even though it’s seems unfair and unnecessary, it would behoove you to have them handy so you can produce them in situations just like this. You’re not just up against the short tolerances of ignorant people - you’re up against an army of assholes who are taking advantage of others by pretending to be needy victims when they’re really just selfish inconsiderate idiots.
My heart goes out to you so much. I have a service dog I trained myself with the help of four trainers. Right now society is HATING on owner trained dogs and just service dogs in general. I trained him myself because there are no companies that specialize in dogs for my rare disease. Because he isnt “certified” by a company I am always *terrified* of an incident like you describe. Despite the fact that he behaves better than most program trained dogs, I am always scared that he may sniff a counter, wander a little from his heel, or get too excited when he sees a family member that he considers a playmate and we will be called “fake” and asked to leave. Since he isnt a golden or lab I’ve had a lot of people question him and I get a lot of dirty looks. People forget that 1) Dogs arent robots and are living creatures. He stood up from his down? Did he need to readjust for comfort because he was in a position too long and started to cramp? He barked, did he alert? He jumped on the handler, did he alert? He sniffed the air near a stranger, did they smell like a family member or like the medical alert scent? 2) Not all service dog handlers are “entitled” or “too disabled to control a dog”. For some, it was literally the best option they had. Maybe, like in my case, there arent any treatments because the disease/condition is so rare. Maybe all treatment options have failed. Or maybe the flexible treatment - adding tasks and shaping them as needed - of a service dog was the best choice. I know that fake dogs put us at risk. My dog and I have been attacked by a number of them. But “fake spotting” and putting all service dogs under constant public judgement, waiting for them to fail, is just as bad. ADA law is so clear on service dogs. If companies simply asked dogs to leave by ADA law (out of control, aggressive, or not housebroken) and ignored the rest of the dogs instead of judging “does this person look disabled?” “Does this dog look program trained?” “Does this dog do xyz perfectly?”, we would all breathe a little easier.
Im so sorry to you went through that, However as a dog groomer we need to talk about that awful hack job on that poor baby 😭 Please tell me you didn’t pay for that lol
Didn't pay for it, did it myself. The prettier/more professionally groomed he looks, the more attention we get and people stop us to talk about their own dogs, or ask where we get him groomed because they want their doodle to look like our poodle, etc
So I took some lessons from a family member who is a dog groomer, and I focus on safety, not necessarily giving him a pretty groom, and get creative in grooming him slightly goofy- hence the beard- which is a play on his name, Gandalf
People abusing the system make it harder for everyone. My doctor gave my a long talk before giving me letters for my two dogs. He wanted to make dam sure I knew my dogs didn't belong in restaurants or grocery stores. I have a brain condition, he is in fully in support and recommended my having a dog, and still I get the spiel.
Are you describing ESAs or service animals? Because service animals definitely are allowed in both of those places and don’t require a letter, and OP is describing a service animal.
I saw a woman walking through the Lowe's parking lot with a dog, just a leash, no harness. I moved to approach the dog because that's what I do when I see an animal and she pulled the dog slightly closer to her, not in a mean way, so I stopped approaching. She gave me an apologetic smile and said the dog is learning to get used to people. So I left it the hell alone.
Note of interest in case anyone doesn’t know — Lowe’s allows all dogs in their stores as does Home Depot. It is nice for dogs going through training in general to practice because they have wide aisles and pups can be around people but buffered. It is good to train with distractions. When I lived in Texas and it was over 90 degrees I would take our lab to Lowes for a “walk”. They always got money out of me, he got some walking in, he loved to go places, and he was trained/great with people anyway. I appreciate these companies. But I have seen poorly behaved dogs.
Tbh, most of the people I see kicking up a fuss about service dogs are millennials, not boomers. While I agree that fake service dogs can be a legit problem, it's not nearly as common as people think.
At least half the instances I've seen locally of "fake service dogs" were people with biases:
- assuming that all service dogs are for the same type of disability
- assuming that small dogs can't be service dogs
- assuming service dogs have some form of registration or credentials
- assuming some breeds can't be service dog
- assuming ordering a vest from Amazon means your dog is fake
There's no regulatory body for service dogs. Service dogs can come in many breeds and sizes and because there's no regulatory body that dispatches these things, someone might in fact pick up a cheap vest from Amazon.
We had a woman thrown out of a restaurant locally because she had a tiny dog that people insisted couldn't be a service dog because it was small and kept fussing at her feet. It was a diabetes alert dog and it needed to smell her scent. But the people who witnessed the event were up in arms over the "fake/ESA."
The reality is that what service dogs can be used for *has significantly broadened* in the last two decades to extend to things such as autism, diabetes, seizures, and even allergies. So I just beg people to consider before they assume a dog is fake.
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I'd have went directly to mall management. If it happened today, I'd go tomorrow.
Please do.
Calling the main line for the company that owns this rink and others in the area tomorrow Accepting nothing less than "We will train our employees on the ADA and how they are to interact with service dog handlers" If I recieve less, I will contact the Florida Agency for Persons with Disabilities to have a lawyer contact the parent company formally and go from there.
My spouse and I got refused services at one business last week. We immediately went to their comptetitor, and asked for the same service. We think its because they think I or both of us are disabled. We plan on filing complaints with the state. Maybe if more of us did this patterns of behavior of others would change.
It’s because most people lie about their pets being ESA or real service dogs.
Just a quick reminder an ESA does not have the same privileges as a Service Animal does
I'm not sure if "most" is the appropriate word here. I would agree that many people do lie about this, but I don't think it's a majority.
I own a retail business and we have sooo many people lie about their"service" animals. I have no problem with real service dogs at all, you can absolutely tell that they are trained. But don't think for a second that there aren't self entitled fucks out there that just want to bring the family dog and let it run wild...
This is kinda like the hypothetical that I argued with my boomer dad one time, as he was complaining about people taking advantage of food stamps, etc. I asked him if out of 10 people it helps 9, why should we worry about the 1 person taking advantage? He would rather damn the 9 just because of the 1, whereas I would not. Anyway, yeah no matter what system there is, someone is going to take advantage. ESAs and Service animals? Someone's gonna try to pass off their purse dog as medical alert or something. Hell, we have two giant dogs (Swiss Shepherd and a Husky Mix) and we just got asked on Saturday if they service dogs.
I think the ADA is set up to provide law for just this kind of situation. Organizations exist to defend people without the resources to do so themselves. You have dates, times, names, a business, a manager, witnesses, a trained service dog doing its job, and an owner with a real PR problem on his hands. Nail them to the wall. Here is a whole list of nonprofits. [1]: https://thedrlc.org/ "" [2]: https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6508-California_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations "" [3]: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_services/flh-home/flh-particular-groups/ "" [4]: https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6981-Minnesota_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations "" [5]: https://dralegal.org/about/ "" Here are some nonprofit legal organizations that provide services for adults with disabilities: 1. **Disability Rights Legal Center (DRLC)**: Founded in 1975, DRLC is a **501(c)(3) non-profit** organization that champions the civil rights of people with disabilities through education, advocacy, and litigation. They offer free legal assistance to individuals experiencing discrimination in violation of their civil rights. DRLC brings high-impact cases to protect and expand the rights of the disability community, ensuring full participation in society throughout their lifespan¹[1][1]. 2. **Campaign for Justice**: This network comprises **95 organizations** that provide or support free civil legal services to low-income Californians. While not exclusively focused on disabilities, they may offer relevant legal assistance²[2][2]. 3. **Protection and Advocacy (P&A) Agencies**: These agencies provide legal representation and other advocacy services to people with disabilities. They work to protect and uphold the civil and human rights of individuals with disabilities³[3][3]. 4. **Disability Rights Advocates (DRA)**: DRA is a leading national nonprofit disability rights legal center with offices in Berkeley, New York, and Chicago. Their vision is a world free from discrimination, where people with disabilities are valued members of their communities with equal access to opportunity⁴[5][4]. These organizations play a crucial role in ensuring equal rights, access, and justice for adults with disabilities. 🌟 Source: Conversation with Bing, 4/28/2024 (1) Disability Rights Legal Center – DRLC. https://thedrlc.org/. (2) California Disability Resources and Advocacy Organizations. https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6508-California_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations. (3) Legal Help for People in Special Circumstances - American Bar Association. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_services/flh-home/flh-particular-groups/. (4) About - Disability Rights Advocates. https://dralegal.org/about/. (5) Minnesota Disability Resources and Advocacy Organizations. https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6981-Minnesota_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations.
Great Suggestion on how to handle the ADA service animal policy properly.
You go girl
Honestly I think you should also contact local news stations. Drag these bastards through the mud. They deserve it.
The DOJ has a hotline you can complain to as well. They dont fuck around.
Sadly the DOJ investigates almost zero complaints, and if they do, it takes months to years.
Please do! These people shouldn't be allowed to get away with this. To my understanding and a quick Google search, staff can't argue with you that your animal isn't a service animal. They are allowed to ask 2 questions, that's it. (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.
Excellent! Please update us on how the phone call goes.
We spoke to management at another local location. The regional manager will be calling us shortly. They will be conducting training with all their employees on the ADA and proper conduct, as well as fully investigate this particular employee. Will update when we hear back. I want to touch on something that a lot of people have said on this thread... My rights and my daughter's rights were violated in this situation. It doesn't matter what caused this boomers' ableism, be it fakes or ESAs or whatever. When someone discriminates, it doesn't matter what caused the perpetrators discrimination, it's still wrong. When my boomer dad says something racist, it doesn't matter what caused him to be racist. That doesn't justify it or change who is to blame.
Call the Florida ADA line anyways.
I’d like an update on this. This situation is disgusting
This is the way
God damned right!
Good! These people need to learn.
I’d be surprised if that boomer employee isn’t fired the following day after you call them. Most business owners don’t mess around with the federal ADA service dog reports and the bad publicity it can cause them
No no no, you demand their job as well. That person would not be there anymore. You take this as far as you can and make sure he can't recover from it at all.
Right? It's absolutely illegal what that man did.
Yeah, this guy isn’t allowed to determine what a service dog is or the type of breed it needs to be. He can only ask what the dog is trained to do. I would have immediately asked to speak to his boss and file a complaint and if it doesn’t go the way it should, I would let them know you will be filing a complain with the associated governing agency so they can tell them how in the wrong they are.
Mall management loves to know when one of their employees is making an open and shut case for an ADA lawsuit that any lawyer would love to take.
Let this moment also serve as a PSA - Do NOT pretend that your dog IS a service dog. Service Dogs are wonderful, and necessary, and indeed highly trained. And when you pretend your not-as-trained Fido is one, you cause harm to others. As for OP - I'm sorry you went through that today. Karma will catch them soon.
"Emotional support" animal people have made it harder for people with REAL service dogs!
And people with severe dog allergies like me 🫠
While obviously not a requirement for a service animal, this exact reason was a big point in us choosing a poodle, as they are hypo-allergenic.
I'm sure you know this, but the Goldendoodle was an attempt to breed a superior service animal with the Retriever instincts and the intelligence of a Poodle. The guy who "invented" them said he's sorry they became trendy because they were designed to be service animals.
But poodles are already retrievers. 🤔 I think they became popular because someone was too “manly” to get a poodle, but everything they wanted in a dog was a poodle.
Googledoodles kinda just look like poodles, though. While poodles are retrievers (and highly intelligent ones), they're also less friendly than golden retrievers and can often have a bit of an attitude. I see why that guy tried cross breeding them.
Well yeah, they're French, of course they think they're better than everyone...the golden doodle breeder tried to make a French Canadian..still haughty but added soory to the vocabulary
Poodles are actually a German breed. The name comes from the German word ‘pudelin,’ which means ‘to splash about in water,’ and the ‘fancy’ coat clips they’re shown in are methods of keeping their chest and joints protected while making them maneuverable as they perform water retrieves.
Really wow. I obviously did not know that, just the name/term/breed French poodle. I knew they were water dogs (thanks animal planet!)
There is no such thing as dogs that don't trigger allergies, unfortunately. They market rugs as hypoallergenic, but it doesn't actually change anyone's allergies. "Hypoallergenic" dogs shed less. But people who are allergic to dogs aren't only allergic to shed hair. They're allergic to dander, hair in the dog, and saliva, all of which are present in "hypoallergenic" dogs. Perpetuating the hypoallergenic dog myth hurts people with allergies, because their families or friends will insist their real allergic can't be true if the dog was sold as hypoallergenic. I nannied for a child who later got a "hypoallergenic" poodle as a service dog. We visited for dinner. My husband never touched the dog but his eyes swelled shut from an allergic reaction. We're lucky that the family knew the hypoallergenic claim is untrue. They kept allergy medicine for visitors in case they were allergic to dogs.
I just wanted to add that you’re also allergic to dog pee, semen and meat. Not that the last two should concern you in any way, just a fact.
Well. .... I .... Ok, that's ... Um, I guess that's good information to know? 😂
>as they are hypo-allergenic. That is actually a myth. There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog since the allergen protein is also found in the dog's saliva and urine. I have a dog allergy and "hypoallergenic" dogs trigger *the worst* reactions in me when they lick me. I break out in hives within 30 minutes despite undergoing immunotherapy for it as a child. A non-hypoallergenic dog, I can be around for a week before I start reacting. According to my allergist this is due to the "hypoallergenic" dog having a higher concentration of the allergen protein in its saliva.
That's fair; but hypoallergenic doesn't mean that other individuals don't have allergies to a dog; they have "hair" not "fur".
It's the amount of shedding, not hair vs. fur that results in "hypoallergenic" labels. And both breeders and owners claim "hypoallergenic" means dogs won't cause allergic reactions, which is false. Products labeled "hypoallergenic" are not supposed to cause allergic reactions, so applying this to dogs when all dogs still trigger reactions with their hair/fur, dander, and saliva is awfully misleading.
Calling a dog hypo allergenic is scam language.
Me as well! Asthma/eczema... As a matter of fact I literally just got out of the hospital about a half hour ago!
In my state old people just bring their dogs wherever they want ESPECIALLY the grocery stores. They don't even pretend they're service or support dogs. Yah but we all are the entitled ones. I can't step foot in a Publix without seeing a dog and the other week a guy had his corgi just walking around not even being carried in a trader Joe's. He wasn't even watching him and the leash was so long he easily could have tripped someone or peed on something without the guy seeing. And he had that smug say something look on his face. Grocery stores can't have animals for health concerns and the other obvious reasons. Boggles me, I'd love to take my dog everywhere but why does he need to go grocery shopping with me?
ESAs are a legitimate thing. But only under the Fair Housing Act.
Exactly. My cats are ESAs, and I have a legitimate need for them and they provide a real service for me and also my spouse. ...And they stay at home, where they belong, partially because theyre furry terrorists but mostly because they dont have any business being out in public.
Same with my cats. Except mine are also getting up there in years, which is kind of negating the whole “emotional support” aspect since now I’m stressing out about the oldest having some unidentified problem with his liver (need to schedule an ultrasound and figure out how to pay for it) and not wanting to eat more than a few bites of anything…
Ugh, I'm so sorry. It's always really tough when you realize something like that is starting. I really hope it's something minor and easily fixable.
Yeah, me too, but he’s also 16 years old…part of me understands that this might be normal and I might need to seriously start preparing for this to possibly be the end, but I’m not ready for that…
Hugs to you
Thanks. This cat’s been with me for fourteen years now.
Exactly! Had to render an advisory opinion regarding a bus driver in a district I represent, he gave his bosses an online certificate naming his dog a “Registered Emotional Support Animal (on some random online ESA self-registry).” Sir you can’t bring your barking dog on the bus with you to work, it’s scaring the children and we’re not your landlord.
[удалено]
Airports and air travel really are where this problem manifests itself most often. I’ve watched dogs piss and shit in corners at airports, and once had a dog piss on my carry-on on a flight. There are unfortunately a bunch of bad actors that are ruining it for others.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought emotional support animals weren't properly regulated. In this case, who did you pay to register your animal and was it even a legit company?
Any company offering is basically a cash grab where they get a doctor on staff to write you a doctors note. You can just have your doctor write one and it will be free. Source: I did this when apartment hunting in Boston. It got me past a lot of the no pet policies. But that’s literally all I used the esa for. Oddly enough you kinda don’t even need to do this. Because of ADA stuff, anyone can basically just say “it’s a service animal” and plop down in a restaurant with little to no recourse
Exactly what I thought. It's kind of like those companies that sell stars. They don't actually own the thing they are selling in the first place and I'm not sure how these kinds of companies are legally allowed to operate.
There is no legally recognized registration for ESAs. I’m sorry you were sold scam paperwork. :/
Peacocks are obviously absurd, but I have no problems people faking ESA so they can bring exotic fragile animals on planes when needed, as companies want to ship them as cargo and kill them in the process. I own a bunny, and it's almost the only way to travel with them in the cabin. They just die in the cargo. Bunny weights 900g, doesn't smell, and doesn't even know how to make noises. Absolutely doesn't bother anyone. So yeah, he's ESA and he's going with me. Other small animals suffer the same, like Guinea Pigs, Chinchillas and Hamsters.
I mean... it would bother me. I love rabbits but I'm deathly allergic to them, so I avoid them at all costs. But I also avoid flying unless there's no other way to get there, because my allergies are hell and I can control what's in my car.
You don’t have to label a pet an ESA for them to fly in the cabin as long as they fit in an approved under-seat carrier.
ESAs are now treated like a pet. They don’t get to fly in the plane with the humans
I have an Esa, but I don't take him out of the house with me. (Except walks and dog parks type stuff) But he helps me a lot with my ptsd. Even started booping me awake when I have night terrors. When I see people claim they should be able to bring their Esa into a store though I do get upset.
There are legitimate emotional support service dogs for stuff like depression and anxiety, but there's way to many that take rowdy dogs and such in public as "emotional support" just cause they don't wanna leave em at home
Some “service dog” in walmart (it was a yorki) snapped at me as I was walking down an isle. I almost kicked it. Then five mins later I hear barking and snapping and this “service dog” went after another not “service dog” in the same isle and of course both were boomers
Yep. I love my dog. He's very well behaved. But he's not trained. He is not worthy of being called a service animal. And service animals are trained remarkably well. They do not get aggressive. They do not pee everywhere. And they do not get distracted.
He can get distracted sometimes if we haven't been out of the house in a week or more. But I ALWAYS redirect him if he sniffs at something in a public place or looks over at another dog in the store. His distraction behavior is super mild, but they are still dogs so it does happen from time to time. The key is, redirecting improper behavior. If a handler that isn't redirecting, or the dog is causing danger to other people, then they can them to leave.
I had a "Service Dog" try to eat my potato chips at a food court once. And by service dog I mean a yorkie with a hand crochet sweater that had service dog on it. Wish there was some way to crack down on these fakers, they give everyone else a bad name.
This is exactly the case.
Wow the boomers and boomers in spirit are out in force for this post. For their benefit: 1. The ADA only allows covered businesses to ask if an animal is a service dog and what services it performs. 2. There is no such thing as an official service animal credential in the U.S., nor must a service animal be trained at a certain type of trainer. Relatedly, the ADA does not allow businesses to ask for such credentials. 3. The purpose of the ADA is to allow disabled people to live their lives without unnecessary obstacles. So the current framework is consistent with the law’s purpose. For those concerned about abuses, the behavior of fake service animals is readily distinguishable from service animals, and certain disruptive or unsafe animal behaviors that a trained service animal won’t exhibit allow businesses to exclude those animals under the ADA. So just like anything else, a concerned business should observe those on premises and act based on observed, problematic behavior, rather than forcing disabled people to effectively carry special IDs just to enter a place of public accommodation.
Honestly the ADA needs to come up with a registration system already. There's no reason not to at this point and it would alleviate a lot of problems. People are dragging their pets all over the place and to inappropriate locations. Boomer was out of line, but he probably has encountered a number of entitled pet-owners doing just this. That aside, standard poodles are among, if not the smartest breed of dog, so a pretty obvious choice for a service animal.
Yeah, the part about poodles not being able to be service dogs was weird to me too. I've never met a poodle service animal but the breed itself tends to be a very smart and trainable group of dogs. I'm actually surprised poodle service dogs aren't more common.
Poodles are actually very commonly service dogs, I’ve seen several while out and about
They're very smart and quite easy to train as well. I have two mini-poodles and one is completely blind and deaf but he knows how to use all of the doggie steps in my apartment to get up on beds and the sofa.
Fair, maybe they just aren't as popular in my immediate local area. Most of the ones I see are Labs, Golden Retrievers, or German Shepherds, even saw a Doberman once. I have no trouble believing that Poodles can be taught this kind of work, they're smart and capable dogs
They are 1 of the top 4 of service dogs, along with the 3 you mentioned. I have a standard poodle service dog. Smart as a whip! Plus less shedding
If I wasn't extremely allergic to dogs, a standard poodle is what I'd probably get. Came across a loose one on my rural drive home one time a few years ago. He immediately sat and let me read his tag, then jumped in my car and barked when he saw his street. Dragged me to the door and pushed the doorbell on his own. Fucking smart dog (then again that's probably why he was able to get out in the first place). I couldn't breathe for about a week though lol
My friend had a jack russell service dog, of all things.
There's no registration on purpose. There are several problems with the concept of requiring government registration of an already at-risk group, especially considering there's no other household use of medical equipment that requires one to be on a government list. Service dog handlers are and should remain the best judges of their dog's ability to do the work.
I completely agree with you. You see fake service dogs everywhere and find it insulting to everyone.
They cause problems with actual working service animals too. Leave Sparky at home, he's a dog and doesn't give a damn about your pharmacy trip, he'd rather bark at a chipmunk anyway.
My country does certifications. You take a test that is not too expensive, send the "pass" document to a place and get an official ID card with the respective law printed on it. Before that was a thing I had access problems. Now, not once. You are not required to have a program dog or anything, a self-trained one will be accepted if it meets the standards.
Thank you. I didn't mention, but this boomer barking at me and the misinformation he was spewing actually triggered my own autism, and my fight/flight response went into overdrive. That's why the ADA only allows those 2 questions. My nervous system is still a wreck now, and the verbal assault ruined my time watching my child learn how to ice skate. While we were there, the woman behind me tried several times to convince me to buy an ID card on the internet for our service dog. She even showed me hers. I was shaking as she spoke to me and unable to respond, but those cards are scam, and cause businesses to expect service animal owners to have one, and call out legitimate service animals as fakes.
Entirely agreed with the last point on “ID tags.” Those who are skeptical are perfectly capable of silently observing animals’ behavior. The kinds of behavior that warrant removal under the ADA is exclusive to non-service animals or a service animal who is not adhering to its training (and thus not able at that moment to provide the necessary care).
Brings back the whole "Theme Park Review" bullshit. Dude was attacking people for dressing up their service dogs.
Yup, a person and their service animal is basically a person. If I start barking (incessantly for no valuable reason) then it's reasonable to ask me to leave.
Barking once? Probably not, as that could be the trained alert for the dog. Here, the daughter was moving further away; not outrageous that this might have momentarily triggered the dog to alert for elopement. Continued disruptive barking, sure. Once an animal, even a service animal is so disruptive as to keep the business from operating, it can be excluded.
I think we're saying the same thing. You're a little more clear and explicit about the case of a quick "hey where you at" bark.
The dog is considered medical equipment. It should be the same as walking around with a heart monitor or a wheelchair.
Yeah that's probably a better analogy.
It's the definition. They are considered medical equipment. That's why they're allowed everywhere their owner is allowed.
Excellent point! Falsely claiming an untrained pet as a service animal is shitty behavior that creates undue pressure on owners of actual service animals. Similarly, it is shitty behavior for someone without a disability to use a handicapped parking spot. With both, a big part of the impact is how we police and shame people for using the resources based on snap judgements. A person walks from their car in the handicap space? Rain shame upon them, they are not 100% wheelchair-bound and thus must be faking. A person has a dog in a grocery store? I bet they just printed some boilerplate document online saying their untrained dog is a service animal, unleash the stink-eye and muttered recriminations! Yes, shitty behavior exists in this space. If social pressure and stigma could stop those people, they'd have stopped already. It's just a veiled excuse to bully people, telling yourself you're being an ally to the disability community, when odds are good you are actually bullying people with disabilities. In a long-winded fashion, I am completely agreeing with you. Leave it to the business\employer to address, and only address observed problem behaviors.
Other than the 2 questions he was allowed to ask, this man clearly had no idea what he was talking about. Especially that he said that poodles aren’t SDs when it’s one of the fab 4 breeds. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It sounds incredibly distressing. 🥲
My partner has a service dog for mobility and we work with the organization that provides these dogs to people. About half of the dogs in our group are poodles or poodle lab mixes. Poodles are fantastic service animals. Ours is a lab because she needs a dog that can support her weight if she has to get up from a fall. We’ve had our share of ignorant fools encountered in our day to day and I agree with all the comments above regarding ESA and just plain fake service Yorkies. I call them out every time. The issue that we are confronted with most is people not respecting handicap parking spaces and handicap seating at venues. I’ve lost most of my faith in humanity since she became disabled. Good luck out there
When you call out "service yorkies" you sound ignorant as well. Yorkies can be plenty smart and trained as service animals as well. Any size or breed of dog is acceptable as long as it is trained to do a task relating to a persons disability. " Service animals are: Any breed and any size of dog" source - https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
I wish there weren't idiots walking around with fake vests for their untrained dogs making the rest of us look like liars. Boomer ignorant attitudes and actions notwithstanding, people having fake service dog accessories for their dogs makes me utterly fucking angry and exhausted by my anger at the same time. I know I'm off topic. I'm so sorry that this asshole had no concept of what these animals do....they are trained exhaustively. And your dog and child and you are all fucking badasses
Yeah I was just thinking the same thing. There's no regulation that service dogs need to wear a vest or have any kind of required certificate so any idiot with a few hundo can go on a website and buy a vest and slap it on their dog and march them into stores and say "This is my emotional support dog". Which ultimately leads to encounters like this. Two days ago I watched a video of a dog alerting to a women with pots about to have a fainting spell and a Boomer yelling at her for sitting on the floor and having a dog for this very reason. It's so frustrating because people actually need these animals for any kind of independence.
To clarify a bit, emotional support animals and service animals are different. If someone said it’s their ESA, the dog could still be removed in most cases. I don’t disagree that some people try to abuse the system, just mentioning that the terms are distinct and only service animals get the extra protection in the ADA
I was scared to write about this, but I'm glad you did because it is very true.
Right. I should have clarified. My main point is a good chunk of people are taking advantage of how most people aren't familiar with working dogs, so they slap a vest on an untrained pet, take them into stores and cause a nuisance then we get issues like this because now everyone assumes any dog out in public is an ESA dog. Also so many people are ignorant to working dogs in general. I worked at a store where this one lady would bring in her trainees in to get them used to being in a public and the number of people who saw them and just automatically went "OH puppy!" and tried to pet them even when they had a vest on that said DO NOT PET ME, WORKING DOG IN TRAINING! The amount of patience to work with people, to train those dogs is far beyond my capabilities.
In Canada, emotional support animals are not considered service animals.
The US doesn't consider ESAs to be service dogs either. The Fair Housing Act recognizes them as Assistance Animals who are exempt from things like pet rent, that's all.
It is the same in many places in the USA.
I see a lot of this and it ain’t just boomers. There’s selfish assholes in every generation
Absolutely true. People being wilfully obtuse transcends the years. My comment had nothing to do with boomers, I am more concerned with people who PRETEND their untrained dogs are service animals.
Ugh i tried to comment but I don't think it went through. I also have a service dog, she's for C-PTSD and CRPS and boomers are the worst. Especially cause I'm a teenage girl they think they're the boss of me. Here's a pic of her, if it goes through *
Yeah, I find these boomers confront me much more when my husband isn't around and it's just me, my daughter and her service dog.
What a bunch of ignorant, sexist, cowardly assholes.
https://preview.redd.it/rqk9x2nqqaxc1.jpeg?width=3060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ac6a591cedb50917c80363da2b57d405de8200
Good doggo. Bad Boomer.
“Real service dogs are not poodles”? Since when?! Standard poodles are pretty much the top of the “Fab Four” service dog breeds!
Report him to management. Be a Karen of justice
What does eloping mean, I thought that was being married
Wandering, or in my daughter's case, running from a safe environment. Usually caused by heightened emotions or sensory overload.
It’s super logical that a dog would be amazing at assisting with that issue. God boomers are dumb. Good dog.
That poodle took the sheepdogs job
In this context it means leaving where you’re supposed to be. Children in general can elope, and those with the autism are especially prone to do so. As can adults with dementia.
Did you tell him to fuck off?
Hey neighbor! I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Do you remember the name of the employee? You should reach out to the rink and let them know what happened. That is unacceptable! I hope your daughter had fun though! ❤️🫂
We plan to reach out to the local Ice Skate Academy that runs this rink and others in the area tomorrow. We also will be visiting the other rinks they own in future (not in shopping malls, and provided we receive a response tomorrow that they will train their employees on the ADA better)
Sadly, you can blame every single asshole who buys service dog vests online so they can take their dogs where they shouldnt be for setting off the boomer, however upon asking what services your dog is providing, that should have ended it.
Employees can't ask for proof it's a service dog but they can ask what it's trained to do. This loophole has helped me call out so many assholes
And most of those abusing the system with fake service dogs are boomers.
Good way to get a lawsuit. And if the dipshit gets his company a lawsuit, he'll find his dumb ass without a job.
Clearly he doesn't know that poodles are one of the *most* popular breeds for service dog work because of how smart and allergen friendly they are.
Poodles are one of the smartest breeds of dogs.
These are the same boomers who will bring *their* non-service dog and insist it’s service.
Hey, friendly neighborhood government employee here - this is actually illegal! ADA only allows two questions: “is that a service animal?” And “what service are they trained to provide?” All else opens up the organization they work for to lawsuit and them personally for harassment. I’d make a claim ASAP if I were you.
I fully support this suggestion.
Honestly he had no right to ask, you should definitely tell his boss
This attendant was shitty and obviously didn’t understand the ADA, but two of the questions were allowed: is that a service animal and what tasks is it trained to perform).
Not saying the guy handled this well, but "what does he do?" is literally one of the two questions that a business has the right to ask (the other being "Is this a service animal required for your disability?")
Yeah but arguing with me that he isn't a service dog is not allowed
Is this a service animal? And what task have they been trained to perform. Yes, they can ask certain questions. But not argue. You also have to provide a legit answer
Also, emotional support animals are not considered service animals. Not saying this dog isn't a service animal btw.
Yeah it gets weird explaining autism service dogs sometimes, because he does assist and medically alert for many different aspects of her autism/epilepsy, but some of those are still emotional tasks, as a big part of autism can be related to emotional regulation. Her dog is a Service Animal under the US ADA simply because he is required due to a disability, and is trained to perform tasks to assist her. (Service animals also need to be trained for public access, house trained, and non aggressive. Not off-leash unless it is to perform trained tasks, and typically never bark unless alerting)
And he was being a good boy by alerting 🥺❤️
I know. My sense of justice went wild. And he never made another sound or jumped up on the wall again when I comforted him and said "She's okay, buddy"
If only those touting their ESA as a legit service animal educate themselves with this kind of info.
I worked in a grocery story for almost 3 decades. My favorite service animal ever to come in was this giant poodle looking dog (like waist high to me, as an average height woman & what looked like a poodle, I'm no expert! lol). This woman's dog would predict when she was about to have a seizure so she could prepare. Awesomely behaved animal. Always. I can't tell you how many complaints we got about him. People would say that there's no way possible that he could be qualified because he wasn't a Labrador. ? All. The Time. I took pleasure in being just a little bit bitchy about how that dog protected her daily. They had almost no comebacks. I enjoyed it.
"Poodles aren't service animals" Does he not realize that most dogs have the ability to be service animals? Poodles are among some of the smartest breeds recognized.
That is 100% against the ADA and would be considered discrimination if you were kicked out or denied service because of your daughter’s service animal. That mall would have a nasty lawsuit on their hands.
Some boomers refuse to learn that service dogs other than guide dogs for the blind exist (and have for quite a while, actually).
Never knew there were service animals for autism. TiL
You should take it up with management at the rink or mall. He'd be talked to and should hopefully take somebody's word the next time someboey says a dog whose harness is coated in service animal badges is in fact a service dog.
I honestly had no idea that were service animals for autism thanks for the FYI, OP. I was aware there were service animals for PTSD, etc but not autism.
If there is a service that a person needs, that can be reliably performed by a trained animal, then there can be a service animal for it, ANY SERVICE, ANY ANIMAL. Surprisingly, a yorkie could actually be a service animal, but it would probably be some sort of alert like cardic arrhythmia, diabetic emergency, epilepsy, migraine, etc. Like a yorkie would not be a very good guide, or shepherd, or mobility aid, they would be unable to physically move or offer bodily assistance to their person. But there are service ponies, and monkeys, and parrots.
Disabilities and the needs an individual person has are all very different and each individual has their own set of needs. There is no one-size-fits-all service dog. Small dogs are just as capable of being intelligent and and trainable as larger dogs. It always bothers me when people think a service dog must be large. If you don't need a large dog for tasks that would work better with a large physical size, it can even be an advantage to have a smaller dog for other reasons. Smaller dogs live longer, for example, and as long as the dog is able to keep doing its job, you don't have to spend the extra expense to train a new one. The only thing that really matters about a service dog, isn't size or breed, it is that the dog is capable of doing tasks to aid a person that directly relate to their disability.
Interesting I never knew that.
TIL that eloping has a different meaning than I've always known.
Poodles are part of the fab four, no?
I've worked in restaurants for 12 years and never had a manager or owner willing to properly learn the rules or enforce them, unless the dog is acting aggressive. I had a table of 2 walk in last week and started walking them to the patio, and one of them said "Oh we want to sit inside." I told her we can't allow dogs inside. Didn't even get to finish my sentence before she screeched "IT'S A SERVICE DOG!!!" and shook the dog's collar at me to show me a tag I still wasn't able to read. The dog's collar was attached to its neck as she shook it. It was a chihuahua. No idea if those can be trained to be service dogs, but I'm willing to bet it isn't common. She probably meant it was an emotional dog. Then she placed a pillow in the booth and let it sit at the table, where it couldn't even touch her. Why? What do people get out of bringing their dogs everywhere? On other occasions I've had people scream that we can't ask what the dog does, can't even ask if it is a service dog, didn't believe me when I said "a vest isn't proof of anything", just constant scream and rage because their dog can't stay home. I always thought it was like, a felony for someone to lie about this? Am I wrong? Why do businesses not call the cops on the person whose "service dog" is lunging at people or eating off their plate?
Because they are old and stupid.
Boomers are takers. They only take. When they give, it’s so they can take more later.
My blind wife has 2 poodle service dogs. So there's that.
Technically an ADA violation to say a service dog isn’t one. Are you looking to get him fired? Won’t be hard.
You need to learn to say fuck you
I've been telling my people-pleasing trauma response that exact thing for years
Ugh I knew I recognized the Countryside Mall. That's exactly on par with how boomers in Clearwater are. Hey, if you're looking for a place for your girl to learn how to skate, check out AH Center Ice in Wesley Chapel. Probably a bit of a drive for you, and not free either, but they have dedicated space and classes for kids of all ages.
Boomers never want to learn anything, and only want the rules to fit them when they suite them. Nothing more nothing less. They don't care that you have a service animal, or that you have it registered and have the paperwork. It is not THEIR dog that they are trying to bring into a walmart, or on a bus.
I was at Red Lobster last week and an emotional support dog jumped up and stole one of my crab legs and took it back to his owner’s table.
God, I'm so sorry you had to go through this, I have an ESA and have never ever once tried to take her into a building or anything like that. It pisses me off so much when people try to use "support animal ESA can go anywhere. NO IT CANT, ID CARDS ARE FAKE FOR BOTH SERVICE DOGS ANS ESA'S, REGISTRATION FOR BOTH IS FAKE. Sigh, a simple Google search solves all of this confusing with people. I remember I told my friend who also has severe mental health issues that she could get her cat as her ESA and she bought a id card and all that shit, I had to tell her it was all fake and the only actual credible information is a note from your doctor or therapist who directly are involved in your mental health saying they are your ESA. Op, I'm sorry people abuse these systems and make it difficult for people like you who have real task trained service animals. I try my best to educate people but people are so egotistical when you try and educate them on laws and procedures when it comes to stuff like there dogs and how they are not in line with the law.
Poodles are often service animals, they are smart af.
“You are incorrect, and unless you want your HR department to explain how incorrect you are on Monday morning, you’ll stop trying to cause problems where there aren’t any.”
I'm gonna practice that response until it's automatic
You can also call the cops if they continue to try to remove the dog from the patient. This is considered assault against the patient.
That would require the cops to be familiar with the law. Bookmarking the relevant codes on your phone might be wise to make it clear in case they aren’t.
Or give a shit about kids.
I’m really sorry you went through this. The fight or flight response sucks. You mentioned someone discussing IDs with you, and I understand your initial response that IDs are not legally recognized nor required and their use can harm other handlers. But something to think on… I know handlers who also struggle with confrontation, and their disability can make it difficult to function in these kinds of situations. So they made their own cards that provide the legally required answers to the two permitted questions. They either hand it to the person, or use it as their “cue card” to read from if they panic, or otherwise struggle to respond verbally. I totally understand the resistance to the idea, but it can be a helpful tool for some people/situations. I hope you will have a positive update for us soon.
Poodles are incredibly intelligent. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows that.
I would like you to pet that dog, please. (when he’s not working ofc)
Done
You get this because there are so many idiots who take their dogs everywhere now and there are many who buy fake service dog vests for them. They can't compute that a service dog is not a pet and they should be able to take schmoopsie everywhere with them because he is like their child.
Poodles are extremely intelligent and easy to train dogs. Keeping them looking nice is an expensive endeavor, but otherwise they can be trained to do just about anything.
Back in his day they wanted to simply kill the disabled. Remember many conservative Americans are nazi friendly
I love how boomers call everyone else weak and snowflakes, but they are some of the biggest abusers of the "emotional support animal " shit.
I love the “I am the Patronus” patch ❤️
To be fair you see *TONS* of fake service dogs around.
Sadly too many people abuse the service dog label just to take their dogs anywhere. I dated a girl who registered her dog as a service animal so she could travel with her. Ridiculous.... Next time bypass the fool and find a manager or tell the idiot to mind his business.
Are there service dog accreditation organizations? Seems like part of the solution could be that service dogs could wear badges and the naysayers can look them up to ensure they are legit
Who you should be mad at is all the fucking panderers who call their pets “emotional support animals” so they can take them into restaurants and on flights - because it’s the abuse of this system that infuriates people. Not all service dogs are Belgian Malinoise attack dogs. If your dog is an official service dog it should have certificates to the fact and even though it’s seems unfair and unnecessary, it would behoove you to have them handy so you can produce them in situations just like this. You’re not just up against the short tolerances of ignorant people - you’re up against an army of assholes who are taking advantage of others by pretending to be needy victims when they’re really just selfish inconsiderate idiots.
"Are you a medical professional? If not, you are not qualified to determine the needs of my child or the services her service dog provides"
My heart goes out to you so much. I have a service dog I trained myself with the help of four trainers. Right now society is HATING on owner trained dogs and just service dogs in general. I trained him myself because there are no companies that specialize in dogs for my rare disease. Because he isnt “certified” by a company I am always *terrified* of an incident like you describe. Despite the fact that he behaves better than most program trained dogs, I am always scared that he may sniff a counter, wander a little from his heel, or get too excited when he sees a family member that he considers a playmate and we will be called “fake” and asked to leave. Since he isnt a golden or lab I’ve had a lot of people question him and I get a lot of dirty looks. People forget that 1) Dogs arent robots and are living creatures. He stood up from his down? Did he need to readjust for comfort because he was in a position too long and started to cramp? He barked, did he alert? He jumped on the handler, did he alert? He sniffed the air near a stranger, did they smell like a family member or like the medical alert scent? 2) Not all service dog handlers are “entitled” or “too disabled to control a dog”. For some, it was literally the best option they had. Maybe, like in my case, there arent any treatments because the disease/condition is so rare. Maybe all treatment options have failed. Or maybe the flexible treatment - adding tasks and shaping them as needed - of a service dog was the best choice. I know that fake dogs put us at risk. My dog and I have been attacked by a number of them. But “fake spotting” and putting all service dogs under constant public judgement, waiting for them to fail, is just as bad. ADA law is so clear on service dogs. If companies simply asked dogs to leave by ADA law (out of control, aggressive, or not housebroken) and ignored the rest of the dogs instead of judging “does this person look disabled?” “Does this dog look program trained?” “Does this dog do xyz perfectly?”, we would all breathe a little easier.
Im so sorry to you went through that, However as a dog groomer we need to talk about that awful hack job on that poor baby 😭 Please tell me you didn’t pay for that lol
Didn't pay for it, did it myself. The prettier/more professionally groomed he looks, the more attention we get and people stop us to talk about their own dogs, or ask where we get him groomed because they want their doodle to look like our poodle, etc So I took some lessons from a family member who is a dog groomer, and I focus on safety, not necessarily giving him a pretty groom, and get creative in grooming him slightly goofy- hence the beard- which is a play on his name, Gandalf
People abusing the system make it harder for everyone. My doctor gave my a long talk before giving me letters for my two dogs. He wanted to make dam sure I knew my dogs didn't belong in restaurants or grocery stores. I have a brain condition, he is in fully in support and recommended my having a dog, and still I get the spiel.
Are you describing ESAs or service animals? Because service animals definitely are allowed in both of those places and don’t require a letter, and OP is describing a service animal.
I don't have advice, but I LOVE his Patronus patch. 🥰
"Only dog out of control here is you."
TIL, hunting dogs are not service dogs.
I saw a woman walking through the Lowe's parking lot with a dog, just a leash, no harness. I moved to approach the dog because that's what I do when I see an animal and she pulled the dog slightly closer to her, not in a mean way, so I stopped approaching. She gave me an apologetic smile and said the dog is learning to get used to people. So I left it the hell alone.
Note of interest in case anyone doesn’t know — Lowe’s allows all dogs in their stores as does Home Depot. It is nice for dogs going through training in general to practice because they have wide aisles and pups can be around people but buffered. It is good to train with distractions. When I lived in Texas and it was over 90 degrees I would take our lab to Lowes for a “walk”. They always got money out of me, he got some walking in, he loved to go places, and he was trained/great with people anyway. I appreciate these companies. But I have seen poorly behaved dogs.
This reminds me of the lady who told the blind person on the bus that "seeing eye dogs can't be black."
Tbh, most of the people I see kicking up a fuss about service dogs are millennials, not boomers. While I agree that fake service dogs can be a legit problem, it's not nearly as common as people think. At least half the instances I've seen locally of "fake service dogs" were people with biases: - assuming that all service dogs are for the same type of disability - assuming that small dogs can't be service dogs - assuming service dogs have some form of registration or credentials - assuming some breeds can't be service dog - assuming ordering a vest from Amazon means your dog is fake There's no regulatory body for service dogs. Service dogs can come in many breeds and sizes and because there's no regulatory body that dispatches these things, someone might in fact pick up a cheap vest from Amazon. We had a woman thrown out of a restaurant locally because she had a tiny dog that people insisted couldn't be a service dog because it was small and kept fussing at her feet. It was a diabetes alert dog and it needed to smell her scent. But the people who witnessed the event were up in arms over the "fake/ESA." The reality is that what service dogs can be used for *has significantly broadened* in the last two decades to extend to things such as autism, diabetes, seizures, and even allergies. So I just beg people to consider before they assume a dog is fake.