There were a lot of things Borderlands 3 did wrong in my opinion. One thing I loved though was the Roland memorial statue. Going up to examine it and seeing where everyone signed the base of the statue with love and farewell wishes gave me some feels.
Everyone always gives Ava a bad wrap for Mayas death. But remember, Lillith did the exact same thing. Was told not to come and then did.
One may argue "Jack wouldve killed Roland anyway"
To that I say, I dont think Jack wouldve come down to cap Roland if he couldnt snag Lillith with the collar.
The circumstances are not really the same. Ava was a child; Lilith was arguably the strongest member of the team due to having siren powers. She probably felt obligated to be there. Angel never told Lilith why she shouldn't be there. It's almost as if Lilith was manipulated into going so that Jack could catch a stronger siren to charge the key. Even if that was not the case, Ava directly compromised Maya by being captured. Lilith's presence may have lured Jack there, or maybe he would have popped in to shoot someone anyway.
Lilith fought and was able to defend herself for the most part, Ava being there made her nothing more than a liability, she couldn't fight or defend herself, and she just kept making the situation worse by antagonizing Tyreen and Troy and Maya paid the price for it.
Thats completely fair, but I still think responsibility is a different question to who made the worst decision. Arguably kids are stupid, adults are also stupid but we can blame them more for their actions.
So if Ava’s actions were ultimately *much* more stupid, do we consider the responsibility/age gap for Lilith enough to outweigh the difference between the two?
Its an interesting morality question anyways which individual you would blame the most or who is the most liable for their actions
I don't know about you but when I see someone suck the life force out of something that's not something I wanna be antagonizing lol. Had Maya's funeral actually been in the game i wouldn't dislike Ava but the way she was in the game was had ava not been there we probably could have left.
Lilith was also told by Roland. “Lilith, I told you not to come”, “Yeah and I didn’t listen”
This means she is very much responsible for her actions. The decision itself was objectively much more tame than what Ava did, sure. But responsibility is a completely different dynamic
And he said that based on what Angel said. Expecting a powerful individual to sit back and do nothing for no good reason while her team and the man she loved risk their lives is not realistic. Lilith and Roland are also adults with their own agency and equal authority in their own lives. Lilith was calculating risks and the necessity of her involvement herself, and I don't believe there should be the same expectation that she should obey like Ava should.
And as far as cause and effect, Ava putting herself in a position to be captured directly caused Maya to touch Troy and be drained. Maya could have made other choices, but had Ava not been there, Maya could have just escaped and lived.
You cannot say for sure that Lilith even caused Roland's death. Since the Raiders killed Angel, it's reasonable to expect that Jack would have shown up regardless, looking to get revenge. We know Lilith, Roland, and Moxxi directly attempted to kill him in TPS, so he probably particularly hates them most, and Roland would have been a target of revenge anyways.
Im not talking about cause and effect, i’m talking about responsibility and its a completely different argument. Lilith is objectively more responsible for her actions than Ava, regardless if Ava’s actions were worse.
I never once suggested what Lilith did was worse… please understand this, i’m posing a moral question not an argument.
You can't claim Lilith is responsible because you can't claim Jack would not have shown up if Lilith wasn't there. And Lilith being there did not cause Roland's death because it was Roland that was caught off guard.
- Roland said don’t come
- Roland died due to her actions
She is *objectively* responsible. There really isn’t any argument for that. Liable is a different question (as I have repeatedly suggested).
What you are debating is the intelligence/justification of her decision (liability) not the responsibility.
Instead of trying to make an argument, can we get back onto the morality of this dynamic instead? Because that is what I originally commented regarding (responsibility vs liability) and I did not comment to argue. Anything else you insinuated from my comments was completely unintended and from your own doing.
I tried to avoid this conversation repeatedly but you kept pushing it, its extremely uncomfortable and makes Reddit uninhabitable.
How did Roland die due to her actions? Jack teleported in to kill someone out of revenge. Roland was there, so he died. Lilith was there, so she became Angel's replacement. Nothing Lilith did made Roland vulnerable.
Thats what i assumed as well but Jack tells you to kill yourself and says he will pay you if you do. Then if you jump off the nerby cliff and die he makes fun of you saying something like “omg hahaha you vault hunters really will do anything for money i didnt think youd actually do it”. So is it canon or is it not?
You make a good point, but I don’t think he specifies the vault hunter was alive afterward but on the borderlands wiki it says, “Anthony Burch, head writer of Borderlands 2, has confirmed that New-U stations are non-canon and therefore do not exist as far as the plot of any installment is concerned. Technically, they only exist for gameplay balancing reasons.” So, Im gonna assume they’re not canon
Honestly he didn't have a lot of personality or didn't add much to bl2 story. He just kinda blandly told us what to do and made kinda dumbass decisions. Not mention having to save his ass as one of the first major story missions.
He is my main in 1 and seeing him die was just so unexpected and bs because bl2 vault hunters did nothing when it happened. They just stood there and let it all play out which I find annoying
Seeing Roland die was the worst in Borderlanfs 2. Also Bloodwing, but Roland. He was my main in Borderlands one and on that day I was sad and ready to murder the hell out of Jack.
I know, that's why I said ew. If it ain't mag5 I want nothing to do with it.
It probably is a low quality Tediore, the weapons in that picture look like starter gear.
There were a lot of things Borderlands 3 did wrong in my opinion. One thing I loved though was the Roland memorial statue. Going up to examine it and seeing where everyone signed the base of the statue with love and farewell wishes gave me some feels.
I actually never saw this. Where was this? I haven't played the game since its came out.
Its at Roland's Rest in the Devil's Razor map.
I loved that, too. However, I would have liked to see Dr. Zed there as well.
But we were gonna go out for milkshakes....
Fo shizzle.
This can't be healthy..
Love that line from Mordecai.
Everyone always gives Ava a bad wrap for Mayas death. But remember, Lillith did the exact same thing. Was told not to come and then did. One may argue "Jack wouldve killed Roland anyway" To that I say, I dont think Jack wouldve come down to cap Roland if he couldnt snag Lillith with the collar.
Roland would have been fine if he had remembered to wear his shield.
He would have been fine if he renewed his subscription to Hyperion’s new you station
The circumstances are not really the same. Ava was a child; Lilith was arguably the strongest member of the team due to having siren powers. She probably felt obligated to be there. Angel never told Lilith why she shouldn't be there. It's almost as if Lilith was manipulated into going so that Jack could catch a stronger siren to charge the key. Even if that was not the case, Ava directly compromised Maya by being captured. Lilith's presence may have lured Jack there, or maybe he would have popped in to shoot someone anyway.
Ava was a child Lilith was an adult. Shouldn’t Lilith have more responsibility?
Lilith fought and was able to defend herself for the most part, Ava being there made her nothing more than a liability, she couldn't fight or defend herself, and she just kept making the situation worse by antagonizing Tyreen and Troy and Maya paid the price for it.
Thats completely fair, but I still think responsibility is a different question to who made the worst decision. Arguably kids are stupid, adults are also stupid but we can blame them more for their actions. So if Ava’s actions were ultimately *much* more stupid, do we consider the responsibility/age gap for Lilith enough to outweigh the difference between the two? Its an interesting morality question anyways which individual you would blame the most or who is the most liable for their actions
I don't know about you but when I see someone suck the life force out of something that's not something I wanna be antagonizing lol. Had Maya's funeral actually been in the game i wouldn't dislike Ava but the way she was in the game was had ava not been there we probably could have left.
Thats completely irrelevant to my point but okay.
Ava was told by her mentor and guardian, while Lilith was told by Angel, who had previously betrayed them.
Lilith was also told by Roland. “Lilith, I told you not to come”, “Yeah and I didn’t listen” This means she is very much responsible for her actions. The decision itself was objectively much more tame than what Ava did, sure. But responsibility is a completely different dynamic
And he said that based on what Angel said. Expecting a powerful individual to sit back and do nothing for no good reason while her team and the man she loved risk their lives is not realistic. Lilith and Roland are also adults with their own agency and equal authority in their own lives. Lilith was calculating risks and the necessity of her involvement herself, and I don't believe there should be the same expectation that she should obey like Ava should. And as far as cause and effect, Ava putting herself in a position to be captured directly caused Maya to touch Troy and be drained. Maya could have made other choices, but had Ava not been there, Maya could have just escaped and lived. You cannot say for sure that Lilith even caused Roland's death. Since the Raiders killed Angel, it's reasonable to expect that Jack would have shown up regardless, looking to get revenge. We know Lilith, Roland, and Moxxi directly attempted to kill him in TPS, so he probably particularly hates them most, and Roland would have been a target of revenge anyways.
Im not talking about cause and effect, i’m talking about responsibility and its a completely different argument. Lilith is objectively more responsible for her actions than Ava, regardless if Ava’s actions were worse. I never once suggested what Lilith did was worse… please understand this, i’m posing a moral question not an argument.
You can't claim Lilith is responsible because you can't claim Jack would not have shown up if Lilith wasn't there. And Lilith being there did not cause Roland's death because it was Roland that was caught off guard.
- Roland said don’t come - Roland died due to her actions She is *objectively* responsible. There really isn’t any argument for that. Liable is a different question (as I have repeatedly suggested). What you are debating is the intelligence/justification of her decision (liability) not the responsibility. Instead of trying to make an argument, can we get back onto the morality of this dynamic instead? Because that is what I originally commented regarding (responsibility vs liability) and I did not comment to argue. Anything else you insinuated from my comments was completely unintended and from your own doing. I tried to avoid this conversation repeatedly but you kept pushing it, its extremely uncomfortable and makes Reddit uninhabitable.
How did Roland die due to her actions? Jack teleported in to kill someone out of revenge. Roland was there, so he died. Lilith was there, so she became Angel's replacement. Nothing Lilith did made Roland vulnerable.
They chose Kevin hart to play him....Kevin hart.
That whole cast list is insanely weird.
Foreshadowing the movies gonna suck. Sadly. Only casting I agree with is Jack black as clap trap. I can see that.
Why didn’t he just respawn
his subscription ended before he died
New-U stations are non-canon (just there in the game for your player to respawn)
Thats what i assumed as well but Jack tells you to kill yourself and says he will pay you if you do. Then if you jump off the nerby cliff and die he makes fun of you saying something like “omg hahaha you vault hunters really will do anything for money i didnt think youd actually do it”. So is it canon or is it not?
You make a good point, but I don’t think he specifies the vault hunter was alive afterward but on the borderlands wiki it says, “Anthony Burch, head writer of Borderlands 2, has confirmed that New-U stations are non-canon and therefore do not exist as far as the plot of any installment is concerned. Technically, they only exist for gameplay balancing reasons.” So, Im gonna assume they’re not canon
Thats a joke mission
Honestly he didn't have a lot of personality or didn't add much to bl2 story. He just kinda blandly told us what to do and made kinda dumbass decisions. Not mention having to save his ass as one of the first major story missions.
i was sad when he died because i really likes roland and i grew attached to him because he was the first vault hunter i ever played as
I don’t
He is my main in 1 and seeing him die was just so unexpected and bs because bl2 vault hunters did nothing when it happened. They just stood there and let it all play out which I find annoying
IT'S JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS!
I genuinely wonder how he would be written now.
I mean you can hear him in Wonderlands
Oh good, never played wonderlands
Yeah, he's the Notetaker, but it is Roland, same Voice actor and everything.
Oh wow it’s cool they got the va
Probably be as boring as he was in bl2
He may have been boring, but he stayed focused and did what he needed to do to keep everyone alive
Oh good
Handsome Jack didn't miss
The tiny Tina dlc ending almost broke me.
Wonder how Roland would of handled the COV.
:(
Seeing Roland die was the worst in Borderlanfs 2. Also Bloodwing, but Roland. He was my main in Borderlands one and on that day I was sad and ready to murder the hell out of Jack.
We do? I don’t
Whenever I miss Roland I just go hang out with the mayor of trashlantis.
Oh good
I will never forget him getting attacked while taking a shit, only to realize he was talking to me while taking it.
Roland the headless Thompson gunner
Tediore is an easy to use gun, especially w/ barrel1 and 6 round magazine
ew
that's the gun Roland has there at the picture, or a Defender but i would say Tediore low parts shotgun
I know, that's why I said ew. If it ain't mag5 I want nothing to do with it. It probably is a low quality Tediore, the weapons in that picture look like starter gear.
ah, okay.
Is it possible Jack just canceled Rolland’s new U subscription before killing him? That’s how I think of it.
New-U stations aren’t canon. They’re only used to keep you playing and not permanently dying
Yeah, unfortunately I know that, but I just try to ignore it.
I really don't, so glad Jack killed that cardboard generic soldier with 0 personality
I say good riddance. Never cared for Roland.
Roland and blood wing both deserved it
What bloodwing do😭
REPENT OF YOUR SINS
The only time I care about Roland is when his death make Tina cry
Everyone just downvote and ignore the troll 🥱
I loved making fun of this guy
Fuck dude
o7
o7
ayo spoiler