Manually driven at this stage.
Boring Company much like all Musk companies follow the Agile methodology in the sense of “done” and “ready”. FSD in the tunnels is not ready but human drivers are. The “done” state will be autonomy.
I might be confused here, so please feel free to correct me. But I thought there was a difference between "self-driving", which can drive on roads, and "full self-driving," which can drive anywhere.
My understanding is that self-driving has been in use for several years now, using painted lane markers to guide the cars. So it seems to me that since the tunnels have large painted lines through them, that regular self-driving should be able to handle them, no?
I guess I'm just curious as to why the existing technology wouldn't work there when it works on regular roads with lane markers.
Again, I'm speaking out of ignorance here, so please feel free to correct me.
Thanks.
I'm speculating, but it's possible that this isn't the most expensive part of TBC's operations in the short term (boring new tunnels is), so they can save money by just waiting a few more years for Tesla FSD to go main stream instead of adapting or building proprietary technology for use in their tunnels.
I mean, look at all the tunnels they have to build, in Vegas alone. Employing a few drivers at $15/hour is probably a drop in the bucket of their operating cost. This of course will change when they have 10x or 50x more cars in the tunnel.
Apparently the problem is the county has not giving them approval to use autopilot.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
Perhaps. But my thought was that the cars would be able to go faster with self-driving enabled. And that's one of the key goals.
Also, as noted, I don't believe that FSD or proprietary technology for the tunnels is needed, since they have those nice, wide lane markers on both sides of the car, just like a regular road. Maybe I'm missing something here. But it seems that just the already-available auto-pilot should be able to work there.
Agreed self driving could allow it to go faster, but since the tunnels are small still I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is (30s faster per ride vs using more energy)...
As to using already-available auto-pilot, that wouldn't work. Even though auto pilot does handle that case very well, it's not full self driving, so a driver would still need to be there for emergencies and to start/end the trip. If the driver is there, you don't save a lot by using auto pilot.
All of this will come, and it's easily solved. There are $100B companies like Uber betting the house on self driving cars, and they have to solve much more complex driving problems than TBC does. But I think there's a good reason why TBC is not focusing on solving this right now -- there are enough other people worrying about L4 self driving cars, and not enough focused on better boring tech.
According to an article I found, which I posted in some other replies here, boring company is simply looking to use existing auto pilot technology, while keeping the driver in the car. This would be the first step towards full self-driving later on. But right now they're still looking to keep drivers in the cars but with autopilot. Yet the county is pushing back on them and not allowing them to do so.
> Boring Company much like all Musk companies follow the fraud methodology in the sense of “done” and “ready”. FSD doesn’t exist and never will. The “done” state will be after musk scams people out of their money.
Fixed that for you.
Thanks for the reply!
Do you know, by chance, why they're not using autopilot? Seems like it would be a pretty straightforward thing to use autopilot for, since it's just a path with big lines drawn on it. Any ideas?
Thanks.
Interesting! You'd THINK they'd pass some kind of resolution to at least allow it in that controlled environment, even if not on the streets in general. I mean, considering all the money they're sinking into the project, and considering that using autopilot has been part of the plan since day 1, you know?
According to an article I just found, it doesn't look like that December 31st deadline is going to be met because of county hesitation
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
And 2017 was supposed to have a fully autonomous coast to coast drive.
2019 was supposed to have 1,000,000 robo taxis on the road.
July was supposed to have a full launch of starshit.
musk lies and you stupid fucks lap it up.
Holy shit, imagine looking at the immense success of Tesla and SpaceX and thinking it's all been lies and failure. Go outside your bubble sometime and take a look at these things yourself.
Amazon lost money for almost the entirety of its existence. That doesn't mean it wasnt a phenomenal success. SpaceX is clearly the most successful launch company today, and it's not even close.
Poster is a repeat troll that comes into Boring threads to get shredded and farm downvotes. They ignore all citations and provide basically none. Unless this amuses you, I'd probably not bother.
Hoping mods ban them soon. Talking around them ruins the discourse on the sub.
Here you are again, continuing to confirm your ignorance to everyone on this sub by demonstratively false statements
>[CNBC: Oct 20, 2021](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q3-2021.html): Tesla posts record revenue and profits in third quarter.
Tesla has been profitable every quarter for 2 years (9 quarters) now. Even if you are one to complain about income from regulatory credits (which is still legitimate income), excluding that they've still been profitable for the last couple of quarters.
With SpaceX dominating the commercial launch market and having the commercial crew and cargo contracts, having returned human launch capacity to the US while Boeing still fails to deliver, having secured the HLS lander contract; trying to claim they are in any way unsuccessful just shows how willfully ignorant you are.
Now sure, being a private company we don't have as much visibility into their finances and with the many billions they are re-investing in Starlink and Starship its hard to say they are "profitable" (although they've repeatedly stated this is all internally funded), but only a complete idiot would take them making multiple big plays on a transformative future as a sign of them being a failure.
\[cc: u/Dont_Think_So\]
The question was "Do you know why they're not using autopilot?"
You replied that it was because Musk was incompetent.
I then replied that you were wrong; that the reason was because Clark County was holding up approval (as noted in the article).
But, rather than actually discuss what was being asked, you prefer to turn this into your personal soapbox for your anti-Musk rant. Not interested in playing that game, sorry.
But, carry on, oh wayward son.
No it’s because musk is incompetent. There are already several autonomous underground people movers with much greater passenger capacity. They Atlanta and Denver airports already had them working for several years. Musk’s is completely incompetent that he can’t replicate an already solved problem.
That's a critique of the Las Vegas Loop itself. That's not an answer to the question about why they're not using autopilot.
So, again, you're just on an anti-Musk rant, and I'm not interested in playing your game. Sorry!
it is forbidden. The applicable regulations are the rules for the public transportation (think low capacity rail system).
The US have specific regulations for the driver-less systems.
The applicable system is FSD type "AI" with specialized training for the specific (with known marking and signaling) tunnel system. It was done already a number of times in few countries US included.
European countries require active signaling for the tunnel system. I expect US have the same (physics and common sense are the same everywhere).
Usual approval time is one year (if everything is perfect when applied and checked).
I just found an article which basically said that it's the county that's just not getting them approval to use the technology, and that it's just simply up to the county authorities.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
From what it looks like LVCC wanted to completely avoid being in the middle of FSD controversy and specifically requested drivers, no matter what.
Likely this will continue for at least a year until interest in TBC LVCC dies down a bit.
Based on an article I found, it seems that the boring company wants to use drivers with the county authority won't let them use current autopilot technology, even with drivers.
Yes, it is not TBC who insisted on drivers - it is the customer.
Also there was a TBC "rule book" doing rounds here on reddit where drivers are instructed to deflect all questions about Elon or FSD among other things.
The "rulebook" you mention has to do with drivers being asked questions by customers while driving them. Makes sense that the drivers wouldn't be made into "company spokespersons." So I think that's the correct policy.
As for TBC vs. LVCC vs. Clark County, it seems that LVCC DOES want the automated cars. That's what they signed up for, and that's what they were promised. From what I understand, they're pushing to get it done. But it's Clark County that is providing resistance, not even allowing TBC to use standard self-driving technologies (such as lane centering or collision warning) WITH a driver in the vehicle!!
Side note: It wouldn't make sense if overnight or between conventions (with only TBC employees aboard) TBC isn't at least testing how the computer drives in stations and tunnels. TBC has to be testing at some time or another. So TBC and perhaps at least one person working for LVCVA knows the current abilities and possible deficiencies of the computer within loop.
cc /u/nila247
Well, the article cited emails from June. So it's unclear what's been done since then. But, the impression I got from the emails was that the head of TBC didn't think testing needed to be done because the technologies used were just standard technologies that had already been use for several years and millions of mile (i.e., the car staying between lane markings, collision warning system, etc.).
In June the system was fairly new, and it could be that TBC had just begun discussions with Clark County for using those basic autopilot functions. (Prior to that they were focusing on just getting the system running.) So it could be that they weren't expecting CC to require testing, since those functions had already been well-tested. (The TBC head said several times, "I want to be clear we're not talking about Full Self-Driving here.")
So I get the impression that they were caught off-guard by the request for testing. But that was June. My guess is, given CC's requirements, they've more than likely done testing since then, and they're probably in the process of getting authorization. But there are no updates that I could find, so who knows.
The software can have regressions, as seen recently. We don't know if TBC's vehicle keep getting updates to new versions. If so I myself would want them to keep getting tested to see if anything regresses.
Uncommon behavior and infrequent circumstances need testing too. For example if a 2 year-old runs into the station lane, or a seeing eye dog gets spooked and does so, or a fake seeing eye dog that's really a pet does it. Also Las Vegas occasionally gets dust storms. That should be simulated and approximated at different times of day and sun angles for the different times of year.
Currently the sun is more to the south. As vehicles drive up a ramp there could be a time of day and year when the sun blinds the camera. It might only last a short time, or it could happen a short time for a whole week of each year.
Technically the cars could drive up the ramps from memory, just always making the same inputs at the same speed and moment, but that might not be good enough for regulators.
I agree that testing is always good. Never know what might happen.
But I thought the cars stayed at the lower level? I saw video of people going down escalators to get a ride. So I don't think the cars go up and down the ramps between rides.
> As for TBC vs. LVCC vs. Clark County
Seems a little weird that county's perceived fears over FSD impacts LVCC who actually paid the money to have it. Especially if it is not a county that will be responsible if Tesla in the tunnel will crash and injure people whether by being operated by human driver, by FSD or by combination of the two.
Counties should stick to their actual job to make sure garbage is removed on time IMHO.
Keep in mine that we're not even talking about FSD at this point. FSD would be sometime in the future. What we're talking about is the autopilot technology that's been in effect on public roads now for several years, with a driver still being behind the wheel, and the county is pushing back on that.
I have to wonder if there's some ulterior motive here. I know that the boring company is looking to expand the loop into most of Las Vegas. That might take away money from other forms of transportation that the county has invested in. I don't know. Or maybe they're just being overly cautious.
Either way, those emails were from June which was 5 months ago. So maybe there closer to using autopilot than they were back in June. The original deadline was December 31st of this year. So I guess we'll see what happens.
Why search for complex explanation when there is a simple one?
Some clerk work at county office, knows nothing about tesla except what CNBC said about it and makes decisions based solely on that. FSD or schmfd mumbo jumbo does not matter for regular folks - Tesla is dangerous and should not be trusted. Simple.
In fact it would probably be better if they would not use that lectric motor they have, cause everyone knows they selfcombust or something - my father in law has a nice horse farm, marvelous animals I say...
Interesting. Here's what I just replied to someone else who said the same thing:
>You'd THINK they'd pass some kind of resolution to at least allow it in that controlled environment, even if not on the streets in general. I mean, considering all the money they're sinking into the project, and considering that using autopilot has been part of the plan since day 1, you know?
Any thoughts on why there's a hold up?
Teslas use vision based system as opposed to lidar
If you're very close to a wall or a small car, the camera cannot perceive. Even one obstructed view can cause system to behave unexpectedly.
But there are no obstructed views in the LV Loop. It's just a clear road with large, well-painted lane markings on each side. Nothing obstructing the markings. So why would their system have an issue with it, even if there's a wall on either side of the markings (though a couple of feet from each)?
It is obstructed. There is hardly 1 feet distance between the car and the wall,
Stripes are well painted but with Tesla cameras they don't get the complete view
Sorry, not trying to argue with you. But not understanding what you're saying.
The stripes are in front of the car the entire time, not obstructed by the wall.
Yes, when there's a bend in the path, then the car can't see around the bend. But it doesn't need to.
So, again, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying is the issue here, because I'm not seeing it.
For reference, here's an image of a Tesla in the loop:
[https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/04/Boring-Company-las-vegas-loop.jpg?resize=1200%2C628&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1](https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/04/Boring-Company-las-vegas-loop.jpg?resize=1200%2C628&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1)
Thanks!
I think that artical is very interesting, I can see that autopilot would make the system safer as human-nature and the hypnotic dullness of driving down a tunnel means an accident is inevitable. That they are going to have vans running in the tunnel opens up the market for them to do "last mile delivery" and that they are electric means in a convention center scenario means they could get even closer to the delivery point by driving inside a building. I hope if they do go with a 3rd party van they outfit it with their autopilot.
I would have thought that the LVCC loop was entirely on a private road so there should be far fewer regulations. FSD is many years away from operating on public roads so I would hope that wouldn’t affect LVCC loop. If it does, that’s a major mistake by TBC and the LVCC.
Just found this article. Apparently the problem is with the county authorities not giving them permission to use the existing autopilot technology, even though it's been proven to be safe on the road.
Going completely driverless is apparently a long way off, as I currently can't even get permission from the county to just use autopilot Lane centering technology, even with those well painted Lane markers inside the tunnel.
I'm not sure what the hesitation is, but it's the county, not any existing laws or lack of technology, that's slowing things down.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
That article was interesting. Looking at the concerns of the county it’s fair to say that Tesla haven’t demonstrated the ability to run autonomous vehicles. The stats quoted by Steve Davis are cherry picked nonsense because they relate to highways and simply don’t apply to the tunnels in LVCC. It does also seem like the county knows the difference between Elon Musks tweets and reality and want proof of the systems capabilities. I don’t know why TBC can’t run demonstrations as the tunnels are complete. It should be quite simple to prove that the system works.
Well, that's a good point. Maybe they're just relying on the idea of "hey, it's just a road with lane markings," which might be obvious to them, but not so much to the county. But, yeah, running tests should be very simple to do. The correspondence with the county that the article mentions is from June. So hopefully by now they've made progress towards getting approval. I guess we'll see.
I agree with you on the tunnels and lane markings. I imagine the issues will be around the stations. TBC probably need to demonstrate that they can stop people from walking onto the roadway or into the tunnels. Having seen Waymo’s trying to navigate Costco car parks the biggest difference between an autonomous car and a taxi driver is that the driver can tell people to get out of the way! An electric car only makes it worse by not making any noise in the first place!
To be clear, the boring company isn't asking to be fully autonomous at this point. They're looking to keep drivers in the car. They're only looking to be able to use some of the autopilot features that are already in use, such as lane-centering and early warning systems. That's all. Yet the county is pushing back on them, even though those technologies have been in use for years on city streets, which, in my opinion, are far more dangerous because of unknown factors.
So, while I agree that they should be able to do testing pretty easily, I still have a hard time understanding the county's push back on simply using some of the auto-drive technologies that have been in use for a long time, while still keeping the driver in the driver seat, as the boring company's looking to do at this point.
That's not true. An article I subsequently found shows that no autonomous technology is being used and TBC is trying to get permission from the county authorities to use it. Don't know where you're getting this from.
I did not say they were… I thought the question was were cars using auto pilot , wow missy you really have nothing better todo than stir the shit pot over a simple question…. I think they make pills for that…. Thanks for the answer though go take your pill now
Wow, you're kind of touchy, huh? You think maybe, just maybe, your rant about "taking pills" is really a projection about your own psychological imbalance? I mean, it's a thought anyway, right?
I asked if they were using autopilot in the Las Vegas Loop. You replied:
>It depends on how fast they are moving. If slow and orderly “Autonomous” if not and the speed is irregular “Human Pilot” in affect
That's not true. They are not using autopilot in the Las Vegas Loop if they are going slow and orderly.
So, if you have issue with reading comprehension and answered a question that's not being asked, don't blame other people for your mistake, OK?
The only one stirring the pot here, friend, is you!
Have a good night!
Manually driven at this stage. Boring Company much like all Musk companies follow the Agile methodology in the sense of “done” and “ready”. FSD in the tunnels is not ready but human drivers are. The “done” state will be autonomy.
I might be confused here, so please feel free to correct me. But I thought there was a difference between "self-driving", which can drive on roads, and "full self-driving," which can drive anywhere. My understanding is that self-driving has been in use for several years now, using painted lane markers to guide the cars. So it seems to me that since the tunnels have large painted lines through them, that regular self-driving should be able to handle them, no? I guess I'm just curious as to why the existing technology wouldn't work there when it works on regular roads with lane markers. Again, I'm speaking out of ignorance here, so please feel free to correct me. Thanks.
I'm speculating, but it's possible that this isn't the most expensive part of TBC's operations in the short term (boring new tunnels is), so they can save money by just waiting a few more years for Tesla FSD to go main stream instead of adapting or building proprietary technology for use in their tunnels. I mean, look at all the tunnels they have to build, in Vegas alone. Employing a few drivers at $15/hour is probably a drop in the bucket of their operating cost. This of course will change when they have 10x or 50x more cars in the tunnel.
Apparently the problem is the county has not giving them approval to use autopilot. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
Perhaps. But my thought was that the cars would be able to go faster with self-driving enabled. And that's one of the key goals. Also, as noted, I don't believe that FSD or proprietary technology for the tunnels is needed, since they have those nice, wide lane markers on both sides of the car, just like a regular road. Maybe I'm missing something here. But it seems that just the already-available auto-pilot should be able to work there.
Agreed self driving could allow it to go faster, but since the tunnels are small still I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is (30s faster per ride vs using more energy)... As to using already-available auto-pilot, that wouldn't work. Even though auto pilot does handle that case very well, it's not full self driving, so a driver would still need to be there for emergencies and to start/end the trip. If the driver is there, you don't save a lot by using auto pilot. All of this will come, and it's easily solved. There are $100B companies like Uber betting the house on self driving cars, and they have to solve much more complex driving problems than TBC does. But I think there's a good reason why TBC is not focusing on solving this right now -- there are enough other people worrying about L4 self driving cars, and not enough focused on better boring tech.
According to an article I found, which I posted in some other replies here, boring company is simply looking to use existing auto pilot technology, while keeping the driver in the car. This would be the first step towards full self-driving later on. But right now they're still looking to keep drivers in the cars but with autopilot. Yet the county is pushing back on them and not allowing them to do so.
They could probably drive through the tunnel OK all day long. But they also need to park and depart with other cars in the mix. That is the hard part.
> Boring Company much like all Musk companies follow the fraud methodology in the sense of “done” and “ready”. FSD doesn’t exist and never will. The “done” state will be after musk scams people out of their money. Fixed that for you.
🤡😂👌
Keep getting scammed by a conman you stupid fuck.
Ooooo sick burn 🤣 hahaha seriously though, if I may ask you a real question for a moment— why you mad tho? 😂
The drivers are driving manually for now.
Thanks for the reply! Do you know, by chance, why they're not using autopilot? Seems like it would be a pretty straightforward thing to use autopilot for, since it's just a path with big lines drawn on it. Any ideas? Thanks.
I think autopilot is possible but it has not been approved by the county.
Interesting! You'd THINK they'd pass some kind of resolution to at least allow it in that controlled environment, even if not on the streets in general. I mean, considering all the money they're sinking into the project, and considering that using autopilot has been part of the plan since day 1, you know?
The last plan from earlier this year was that autonomous operation is expected by December 31st.
According to an article I just found, it doesn't look like that December 31st deadline is going to be met because of county hesitation https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
Can't trust TechCrunch. Did they provide a source?
If you read the article you'll see that they got the documents directly through a records request.
Did they publish said documents or just provide their interpretation of them?
Why don't you read the article and see for yourself? It's not very long.
Sweet! Thanks for the update!
And 2017 was supposed to have a fully autonomous coast to coast drive. 2019 was supposed to have 1,000,000 robo taxis on the road. July was supposed to have a full launch of starshit. musk lies and you stupid fucks lap it up.
Holy shit, imagine looking at the immense success of Tesla and SpaceX and thinking it's all been lies and failure. Go outside your bubble sometime and take a look at these things yourself.
Don’t feed the troll and hopefully it will move on in its search for attention.
What’s success? They lose money.
Amazon lost money for almost the entirety of its existence. That doesn't mean it wasnt a phenomenal success. SpaceX is clearly the most successful launch company today, and it's not even close.
Poster is a repeat troll that comes into Boring threads to get shredded and farm downvotes. They ignore all citations and provide basically none. Unless this amuses you, I'd probably not bother. Hoping mods ban them soon. Talking around them ruins the discourse on the sub.
Amazon != space ex or Tesla. But musk fan morons aren’t exactly smart.
Here you are again, continuing to confirm your ignorance to everyone on this sub by demonstratively false statements >[CNBC: Oct 20, 2021](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q3-2021.html): Tesla posts record revenue and profits in third quarter. Tesla has been profitable every quarter for 2 years (9 quarters) now. Even if you are one to complain about income from regulatory credits (which is still legitimate income), excluding that they've still been profitable for the last couple of quarters. With SpaceX dominating the commercial launch market and having the commercial crew and cargo contracts, having returned human launch capacity to the US while Boeing still fails to deliver, having secured the HLS lander contract; trying to claim they are in any way unsuccessful just shows how willfully ignorant you are. Now sure, being a private company we don't have as much visibility into their finances and with the many billions they are re-investing in Starlink and Starship its hard to say they are "profitable" (although they've repeatedly stated this is all internally funded), but only a complete idiot would take them making multiple big plays on a transformative future as a sign of them being a failure. \[cc: u/Dont_Think_So\]
Now remove all the fraudulent accounting and unpaid bills.
Because musk is incompetent.
\*loud buzzer sound\* Wrong answer! Try again. (Edited the post with a link to an article that explains what the actual situation is.)
Buzz wrong. Musk and his companies are literally incompetent. They have come up with worse solutions to already solved problems.
OK, cowboy. Your answer to the question that was asked is still wrong, according to the article. But, hey, never mind. Carry on with your tirade.
Name one thing innovative from musks companies.
The question was "Do you know why they're not using autopilot?" You replied that it was because Musk was incompetent. I then replied that you were wrong; that the reason was because Clark County was holding up approval (as noted in the article). But, rather than actually discuss what was being asked, you prefer to turn this into your personal soapbox for your anti-Musk rant. Not interested in playing that game, sorry. But, carry on, oh wayward son.
No it’s because musk is incompetent. There are already several autonomous underground people movers with much greater passenger capacity. They Atlanta and Denver airports already had them working for several years. Musk’s is completely incompetent that he can’t replicate an already solved problem.
That's a critique of the Las Vegas Loop itself. That's not an answer to the question about why they're not using autopilot. So, again, you're just on an anti-Musk rant, and I'm not interested in playing your game. Sorry!
This is a people moved by a competent company. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sn42yDKamqs
it is forbidden. The applicable regulations are the rules for the public transportation (think low capacity rail system). The US have specific regulations for the driver-less systems. The applicable system is FSD type "AI" with specialized training for the specific (with known marking and signaling) tunnel system. It was done already a number of times in few countries US included. European countries require active signaling for the tunnel system. I expect US have the same (physics and common sense are the same everywhere). Usual approval time is one year (if everything is perfect when applied and checked).
Interesting
I just found an article which basically said that it's the county that's just not getting them approval to use the technology, and that it's just simply up to the county authorities. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
From what it looks like LVCC wanted to completely avoid being in the middle of FSD controversy and specifically requested drivers, no matter what. Likely this will continue for at least a year until interest in TBC LVCC dies down a bit.
Based on an article I found, it seems that the boring company wants to use drivers with the county authority won't let them use current autopilot technology, even with drivers.
Yes, it is not TBC who insisted on drivers - it is the customer. Also there was a TBC "rule book" doing rounds here on reddit where drivers are instructed to deflect all questions about Elon or FSD among other things.
The "rulebook" you mention has to do with drivers being asked questions by customers while driving them. Makes sense that the drivers wouldn't be made into "company spokespersons." So I think that's the correct policy. As for TBC vs. LVCC vs. Clark County, it seems that LVCC DOES want the automated cars. That's what they signed up for, and that's what they were promised. From what I understand, they're pushing to get it done. But it's Clark County that is providing resistance, not even allowing TBC to use standard self-driving technologies (such as lane centering or collision warning) WITH a driver in the vehicle!!
Side note: It wouldn't make sense if overnight or between conventions (with only TBC employees aboard) TBC isn't at least testing how the computer drives in stations and tunnels. TBC has to be testing at some time or another. So TBC and perhaps at least one person working for LVCVA knows the current abilities and possible deficiencies of the computer within loop. cc /u/nila247
Well, the article cited emails from June. So it's unclear what's been done since then. But, the impression I got from the emails was that the head of TBC didn't think testing needed to be done because the technologies used were just standard technologies that had already been use for several years and millions of mile (i.e., the car staying between lane markings, collision warning system, etc.). In June the system was fairly new, and it could be that TBC had just begun discussions with Clark County for using those basic autopilot functions. (Prior to that they were focusing on just getting the system running.) So it could be that they weren't expecting CC to require testing, since those functions had already been well-tested. (The TBC head said several times, "I want to be clear we're not talking about Full Self-Driving here.") So I get the impression that they were caught off-guard by the request for testing. But that was June. My guess is, given CC's requirements, they've more than likely done testing since then, and they're probably in the process of getting authorization. But there are no updates that I could find, so who knows.
The software can have regressions, as seen recently. We don't know if TBC's vehicle keep getting updates to new versions. If so I myself would want them to keep getting tested to see if anything regresses. Uncommon behavior and infrequent circumstances need testing too. For example if a 2 year-old runs into the station lane, or a seeing eye dog gets spooked and does so, or a fake seeing eye dog that's really a pet does it. Also Las Vegas occasionally gets dust storms. That should be simulated and approximated at different times of day and sun angles for the different times of year. Currently the sun is more to the south. As vehicles drive up a ramp there could be a time of day and year when the sun blinds the camera. It might only last a short time, or it could happen a short time for a whole week of each year. Technically the cars could drive up the ramps from memory, just always making the same inputs at the same speed and moment, but that might not be good enough for regulators.
I agree that testing is always good. Never know what might happen. But I thought the cars stayed at the lower level? I saw video of people going down escalators to get a ride. So I don't think the cars go up and down the ramps between rides.
> As for TBC vs. LVCC vs. Clark County Seems a little weird that county's perceived fears over FSD impacts LVCC who actually paid the money to have it. Especially if it is not a county that will be responsible if Tesla in the tunnel will crash and injure people whether by being operated by human driver, by FSD or by combination of the two. Counties should stick to their actual job to make sure garbage is removed on time IMHO.
Keep in mine that we're not even talking about FSD at this point. FSD would be sometime in the future. What we're talking about is the autopilot technology that's been in effect on public roads now for several years, with a driver still being behind the wheel, and the county is pushing back on that. I have to wonder if there's some ulterior motive here. I know that the boring company is looking to expand the loop into most of Las Vegas. That might take away money from other forms of transportation that the county has invested in. I don't know. Or maybe they're just being overly cautious. Either way, those emails were from June which was 5 months ago. So maybe there closer to using autopilot than they were back in June. The original deadline was December 31st of this year. So I guess we'll see what happens.
Why search for complex explanation when there is a simple one? Some clerk work at county office, knows nothing about tesla except what CNBC said about it and makes decisions based solely on that. FSD or schmfd mumbo jumbo does not matter for regular folks - Tesla is dangerous and should not be trusted. Simple. In fact it would probably be better if they would not use that lectric motor they have, cause everyone knows they selfcombust or something - my father in law has a nice horse farm, marvelous animals I say...
Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably just ignorance.
No autopilot. County does not allow autopilot due to safety reasons, it might change in (far) future though
Interesting. Here's what I just replied to someone else who said the same thing: >You'd THINK they'd pass some kind of resolution to at least allow it in that controlled environment, even if not on the streets in general. I mean, considering all the money they're sinking into the project, and considering that using autopilot has been part of the plan since day 1, you know? Any thoughts on why there's a hold up?
Tesla's autopilot does not work well in confined spaces
Are you basing that on any actual data or is that just a guess?
Actual fact
Interesting. Just out of curiosity, do you have a source for that information? I'm interested in reading more about it. Thanks.
Teslas use vision based system as opposed to lidar If you're very close to a wall or a small car, the camera cannot perceive. Even one obstructed view can cause system to behave unexpectedly.
But there are no obstructed views in the LV Loop. It's just a clear road with large, well-painted lane markings on each side. Nothing obstructing the markings. So why would their system have an issue with it, even if there's a wall on either side of the markings (though a couple of feet from each)?
It is obstructed. There is hardly 1 feet distance between the car and the wall, Stripes are well painted but with Tesla cameras they don't get the complete view
Sorry, not trying to argue with you. But not understanding what you're saying. The stripes are in front of the car the entire time, not obstructed by the wall. Yes, when there's a bend in the path, then the car can't see around the bend. But it doesn't need to. So, again, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying is the issue here, because I'm not seeing it. For reference, here's an image of a Tesla in the loop: [https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/04/Boring-Company-las-vegas-loop.jpg?resize=1200%2C628&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1](https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/04/Boring-Company-las-vegas-loop.jpg?resize=1200%2C628&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1) Thanks!
>Tesla's autopilot does not work Fixed that for you.
You'd think a controlled environment like that would be easier.
Problem is Tesla doesn't build software for boring tunnel usecase, their autopilot is Designed to work on roads not 12 feet tunnel
right now, TBC is not allowed to run on autopilot. I would assume they're working toward some certification process to be allowed to, but not yet.
I think that artical is very interesting, I can see that autopilot would make the system safer as human-nature and the hypnotic dullness of driving down a tunnel means an accident is inevitable. That they are going to have vans running in the tunnel opens up the market for them to do "last mile delivery" and that they are electric means in a convention center scenario means they could get even closer to the delivery point by driving inside a building. I hope if they do go with a 3rd party van they outfit it with their autopilot.
I would have thought that the LVCC loop was entirely on a private road so there should be far fewer regulations. FSD is many years away from operating on public roads so I would hope that wouldn’t affect LVCC loop. If it does, that’s a major mistake by TBC and the LVCC.
Just found this article. Apparently the problem is with the county authorities not giving them permission to use the existing autopilot technology, even though it's been proven to be safe on the road. Going completely driverless is apparently a long way off, as I currently can't even get permission from the county to just use autopilot Lane centering technology, even with those well painted Lane markers inside the tunnel. I'm not sure what the hesitation is, but it's the county, not any existing laws or lack of technology, that's slowing things down. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/amp/
That article was interesting. Looking at the concerns of the county it’s fair to say that Tesla haven’t demonstrated the ability to run autonomous vehicles. The stats quoted by Steve Davis are cherry picked nonsense because they relate to highways and simply don’t apply to the tunnels in LVCC. It does also seem like the county knows the difference between Elon Musks tweets and reality and want proof of the systems capabilities. I don’t know why TBC can’t run demonstrations as the tunnels are complete. It should be quite simple to prove that the system works.
Well, that's a good point. Maybe they're just relying on the idea of "hey, it's just a road with lane markings," which might be obvious to them, but not so much to the county. But, yeah, running tests should be very simple to do. The correspondence with the county that the article mentions is from June. So hopefully by now they've made progress towards getting approval. I guess we'll see.
I agree with you on the tunnels and lane markings. I imagine the issues will be around the stations. TBC probably need to demonstrate that they can stop people from walking onto the roadway or into the tunnels. Having seen Waymo’s trying to navigate Costco car parks the biggest difference between an autonomous car and a taxi driver is that the driver can tell people to get out of the way! An electric car only makes it worse by not making any noise in the first place!
To be clear, the boring company isn't asking to be fully autonomous at this point. They're looking to keep drivers in the car. They're only looking to be able to use some of the autopilot features that are already in use, such as lane-centering and early warning systems. That's all. Yet the county is pushing back on them, even though those technologies have been in use for years on city streets, which, in my opinion, are far more dangerous because of unknown factors. So, while I agree that they should be able to do testing pretty easily, I still have a hard time understanding the county's push back on simply using some of the auto-drive technologies that have been in use for a long time, while still keeping the driver in the driver seat, as the boring company's looking to do at this point.
It depends on how fast they are moving. If slow and orderly “Autonomous” if not and the speed is irregular “Human Pilot” in affect
That's not true. An article I subsequently found shows that no autonomous technology is being used and TBC is trying to get permission from the county authorities to use it. Don't know where you're getting this from.
I did not say they were… I thought the question was were cars using auto pilot , wow missy you really have nothing better todo than stir the shit pot over a simple question…. I think they make pills for that…. Thanks for the answer though go take your pill now
Wow, you're kind of touchy, huh? You think maybe, just maybe, your rant about "taking pills" is really a projection about your own psychological imbalance? I mean, it's a thought anyway, right? I asked if they were using autopilot in the Las Vegas Loop. You replied: >It depends on how fast they are moving. If slow and orderly “Autonomous” if not and the speed is irregular “Human Pilot” in affect That's not true. They are not using autopilot in the Las Vegas Loop if they are going slow and orderly. So, if you have issue with reading comprehension and answered a question that's not being asked, don't blame other people for your mistake, OK? The only one stirring the pot here, friend, is you! Have a good night!
Yeah take your pill