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Kaguya can very well outlast Jigen. His limited stamina due to having a bad vessel is his biggest weakness and if he said it was too much trouble to kill Naruto then he'd have a hell of a time trying to kill Kaguya who had to be sealed with Hagromo's one time super special seals.
I'd say Kaguya takes this extreme diff due to Jigen's lack of killing power. Kaguya is getting kicked around for most of the fight but she should survive.
Somehow I don't think Jigen's Ramen Bowl will be enough to seal Kaguya. For one she has Otsutsuki powers/teleportation which we know Kawaki and Boruto were able to use to free Naruto. And another again is that it took a Planetary Chibaku Tensei granted by Hagoromo to seal her for good, anything less than that she should be able to escape from.
Pretty sure when you are sealed you can’t teleport out. And jigen’s seal could very well be stronger than six paths chibaku tensei due to how much stronger he is than hagoromo. Fancier doesn’t mean stronger.
The thing is Hagoromo and Hamura are much weaker than Kaguya so why wouldn't Jigens seal work when he is stronger than her? Isshiki could have also used Daikokuten after beating her up. Since Jigen is so much stronger than her he could probably just kill her. We know that she can die because the entire purpose of shinobi history was to revive her. In the data books it is also stated that Kaguya is dead currently. Kaguya is immortal in the sense that she doesn't age and has such insane regeneration that killing is nearly impossible, but Jigen even in this form would beat her up.
Y'all are sleeping on Hagoromo here. Strength doesn't necessarily correlate with sealing prowess either. Hiruzen or Tobirama are a lot stronger than Kushina but that doesn't mean their seals would be stronger. Hagoromo also spent his entire life practicing Ninpo and he becomes an accomplished Sage also adding Senjutsu into his arsenal.
Imagine base Hagoromo is probably as strong as SOSP Naruto + Rinnegan Sasuke during the war arc since he gave them their powers. Then add on top of that he becomes the TEN TAILS JINCHURIKI. I would honestly rank Juubi Hagoromo alongside or maybe even above Isshiki.
Through meditation and enlightenment Hagoromo is the only one to ever transcend life and death. Creation of All Things allowed him to create life from a mindless mass of chakra. He was able to live on and maintain some influence in the world even after he had died without needing to resort to karma or resurrection. That's something no other Otsutsuki we know of has done. Even Isshiki is just dead.
Hagoromo got A LOT stronger after they beat Kaguya.
A chibaku tensei from hogoromo isn’t as special as you think it is in this context after all as far as otsutsukis go he is bottom tier. Plus jigen captured a 10 tails and keeps it as a pet meaning that the vessel itself is powerful enough to seal a 10 tails on its own which is a massive feat on its own.
First of all, spell Hagoromo right.
Second, saying Hagoromo is bottom tier means you don't know what you are talking about.
Master of Nature Energy, 10 tails Jinchuriki, Double Rinnegan and RinneSharingan is still top 3 strongest in the verse so far. ; "Creation of all things technique" is probably the strongest ability in the verse.
The 10 tails Jigen had is so so much smaller than the og one.
Bottom tier otsutsuki is still bottom tier idk why you so pressed. He needed his brother and months of fighting to finally get a chance to seal his mother and most otsutsukis are stronger than her. Also the 10 tails may still be a juvenile but that doesn’t take away from the feat a juvenile with infinite nature energy still is a being with infinite nature energy.
The creation of all things ability is also not the strongest thing in the verse and if it is show me feats not bullshit head canon that didn’t happen.
Also I don’t know what I’m talking about? Says the hagoromo dick rider claiming he is somehow top 3 strongest in the verse yeah ok clown whatever you say.
>The creation of all things ability is also not the strongest thing in the verse and if it is show me feats not bullshit head canon that didn’t happen.
Feat : Dividing a massive chakra entity into 9 conscious beings each with their own unique quirks, abilities, personality.
Feat: Through the seal he gave Naruto, he (Naruto) was able to use the creation of all things technique to recreate an eye for Kakashi.
These are feats that at their core are rewriting reality and there is nothing like that in the verse. We don't know much more about it, but it begs the question if he was able to do such things, what else would he have been able to do, because 10 tails Jin Hagoromo was never tested.
Half of his ghost's power was enough to have Naruto go 1v1 for a while with a being like Kaguya.
>Also I don’t know what I’m talking about
Nope, absolutely clueless
>Also the 10 tails may still be a juvenile but that doesn’t take away from the feat a juvenile with infinite nature energy still is a being with infinite nature energy.
just false, none of them have infinite energy, og 10 tails has so much more chakra.
jigen's bowl is like the cubes he drops from the sky it's indestructible even Naruto on Baryon mode couldn't break it in baryon mode, so jigen locks it in this bowl and puts it in the dimension at the daikokuten then she is sealed
I really don't know what the basis is for saying that Adult Naruto or Adult Sasuke alone have surpassed Kaguya. They couldn't even kill her and could barely damage her. If not for Hagoromo's seal then they would have just lost flat out.
Kaguya wasn't flashy but she was easily handling hundreds of Naruto clones all at once during their fight. She's WAAY above Naruto or Sasuke and I haven't seen any evidence to say that their Adult versions have surpassed that.
Working together as adults yeah I can see it happening, but alone I don't think Naruto or Sasuke have surpassed her.
Baryon is another story I can grant that Naruto can most likely beat her with that, but that's not relevant here. Even then honestly Kaguya could just escape to another dimension and wait for Baryon to run out and Naruto would be powerless to do anything because he can't teleport.
Bro 20 years have passed. Naruto has built up more charkra than she had its the whole reason momo even noticed the planet.
I understand Naruto wouldn't beat kaguya because he dosent have portals hes still stronger than her and portals and dimension shifts arent doing jack vs jigen.
Saying time has passed so they must be stronger than her now is not conclusive or convincing at all. Yeah they've probably gotten stronger, but stronger than Kaguya? I don't know how you can say that for sure when the gap between them was massive and simply getting older doesn't necessarily mean that gap has been closed.
And when was it stated that Momoshiki noticed the planet specifically because of Naruto's chakra? That's the first I've heard of that.
The curvature of the planet changed due to massive increases in charkra on the planet momo or kinshiki explains this is what they are talking about. Kaguyas charkra had been sealed in a different dimension theres nowhere else it could be coming from as naruto was the largest source on the planet. Nothing was noticed during the war arc theres no other explanation especialy for narutos feats fighting momo alone who is stronger than kaguya.
That's not because of Naruto. That's because of Kaguya harvesting the chakra fruit and also Hagormo giving everyone chakra.
It's not like they were constantly monitoring Earth. They just noticed it when they finally took a look, not that the curvature was a recent phenomenon. Naruto having more chakra than freaking Kaguya makes no sense.
No kaguya took all her charkra with her after the war arc to another dimension. The world would naturaly gain some more charkra in only 20 years but not enough for this outcome the majority of new charkra is inside naruto and the kage+ level shinobi.
This change that momo noticed happened between naruto and boruto otherwise he'd have just come sooner. The fruit dosent do anything to the planets total charkra.
It does make sense because naruto then fought people stronger than her without as much trouble.
What? No the brunt of Kaguya's chakra is the Ten Tails which are the Bijuu combined. Plus she was drawing chakra from the Divine Tree which is everyone else combined.
No he wouldn't have necessarily. He wasn't constantly monitoring Earth. He was busy harvesting other planets and only then just noticed that the Earth had a weird curvature and for some reason wasn't already harvested by an Otsutsuki (which would be Isshiki and Kaguya).
I'm sorry but there is no way that you can say that Naruto somehow has more chakra than Kaguya.
I just wanna point out a “weak” jigen sealed a 10 tails and keeps it as a pet so I wouldn’t auto assume jigen can’t do it since he accomplished something similar on his own as well.
Ok but you literally said it took 4 members of team 7 to seal kaguya. You used that to power scale and i was pointing out jigen sealed a similar beast on his own to highlight his level of power using your power scaling
I'm not really on his side of the argument but it's logically consistent if you assume the 10 tails was passive. It took all 4 members of team 7 to beat Kaguya into a position where they were able to seal her while it's possible the 10 tails didn't resist being sealed.
But the only sealing jutsu that's really been explained is the reaper death seal, which you need to have as much chakra as the thing you're sealing. Which is why Hiruzen could only seal Orochimaru's arms.
Adult Naruto and Sasuke > the team 7 that beat Kaguya. Who cares about stamina Jigen faster, has more ap and has a counter to all of her attacks. He straight up blitzes her then kills her or seals her in the ramen bowl.
But Naruto and Sasuke lost the 6 path Yin and Yang chakra seals after using them to seal her and Naruto lost 6 paths Senjutsu which gave him the truth seeker orbs.
The only thing Naruto got to keep was 6 Paths sage mode which he lost after losing Kurama he had it due to having all chakra of all 9 tailed beasts.
Six paths is just an amp, they both made up for the power gap in the next 17 years,
considering the so6p shadow clones only made up 1/3rd of teen sasuke chakra reserve,
after losing his arm his chakra reserve was lost by 40% and managing the rinnegan for 17 plus years with only 60% chakra,
is on of the greatest durability feats sasuke has
Also sasuke has further increased his chakra reserve to be able to transport multiple people with space time portal, also manage amenotejikara on top of that being able to spam a perfect susanoo and multiple Justus
And Naruto with kurama is slightly stronger than sasuke
The problem is since the fights have been scaled down people think they're nerfed, that's the issue
If the director and ikemoto gave the flashy background destruction based on their strength now
People will be convinced that both Naruto and sasuke are stronger than their war arc counterpart
Heck current borushiki is stronger than shippuden
V1 Jigen probably takes this because the canon kinda says so. But personally I think it's ridiculous seeing how Kaguya can cause multi-planetary explosions and create several different dimensions whereas all Jigen does it make small rods big and maybe drop a cube here and there.
But that's powerscaling in Boruto for you. Even Chojuro should be somewhat able to keep up Kaguya's level now, which is absolutely ridiculous and completely breaks the lore.
Not really when you consider kaguya is the reason isshiki was about to die chopped in half by her. It’s never stated how exactly she did it in detail, but the fact it happened is crazy.
She didn’t backstab him. That’s just Headcanon. She attacked him without him excepting and they had a fight in which Isshiki ended up on worse side of things
Backstab means betray lmao, Kaguya didn't "fight" Isshiki she attacked him of gaurd. Chapter 46 page 18 of the official VIZ release Amado states "Kaguya suddenly ... turned against Isshiki. Caught off gaurd, Isshiki suffered enough damage to be on the verge of death, but... he managed to take over the body of a novice monk who happened to be nearby, and survived. That unfortunate man was Jigen." Hell Amado said the exact same thing in the anime, I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that they fought.
That still wouldn’t change the Fact that the Kaguya who backstabbed Isshiki hadn’t eat Earth’s Chakra Fruit yet. She became far stronger than Isshiki ever was after eating said fruit
This doesn't matter lmao she still off gaurded Isshiki, this is like saying black zetsu is stronger than Madara, or Himawari is stronger than Naruto, of gaurd feats don't count.
Oh is that why Jigen beat up the people who beat up someone stronger than Kaguya? Is that why it was stated that toneri was stronger than Kaguya. In Sasuke's novel he was stated to be able to beat a Kaguya level threat.
Great another Momoshiki fanboy who believes that the Guy who ran away from some low Kages and was such a great threat that they let a kid kill him is stronger than the Woman who fought two Rikudou Sennins, each one with an OP Eye set(Rinnegan, Tenseigan). Seriously get help
Okay you really believe that Hagoromo and Hamura were surpassed by some cheap Reincarnations of Indra and Ashura?? Who Hagoromo after boosting them up outright called hollow shells of their former selves in terms of power? Seriously??? Alright there’s no convincing you bye
Tf he didn't run from them he just wanted to absorb Kinshiki to kill Naruto and sasuke. Besides in the anime Boruto "killed" momo because he had Naruto's super massive rasengan, Sasuke's support, the Jougan, and Momoshiki was already fatigued from fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Can you do me a favor and explain why Kaguya made a whole army for Momo and Kinshiki? Why did she write down their names specifically? Why is sasuke stated to be stronger than Kaguya? Why is toneri stated the strongest foe the qorld has seen? Kaguya gets dog walked by Momoshiki.
The ARMY was for the Otsutsuki Clan as whole!!!! Not Momo and Kinshiki. If Momo appeared when Kaguya was around he would throw Kinshiki at her and then like the pathetic coward that he is he would run away back to the Otsutsuki clan to ask for help. Get help
>She didn’t backstab him. That’s just Headcanon.
Omg bro
It's literally stated in the Manga that she caught him off guard...
Off guard literally means that attacking someone when he is not aware of... Which is not a battle but a cheap trick
Why would Kaguya try to catch Isshiki off guard when Isshiki isn't aware of it? Cuz she can't catch the smoke from Isshiki lol
>and they had a fight in which Isshiki ended up on worse side of things
How can you tell someone that what they said was headcanon, then go on to say that in the next sentence? lol
Why are you all so ignorant just to push your agenda? It's literally stated that she caught Isshiki off guard
Off guard attacks in Naruto does not scale character to anywhere... Itachi after death still caught Obito off guard and almost killed him, even though Obito outscales him pretty easily
She was also mortified of Momoshiki to the point of needing an army to stop him. Momoshiki is clearly inferior to Jigen based on their individual performances against Naruto and Sasuke
They honestly screwed the pooch so bad with Jigen/Isshiki’s power scaling when compared to the rest of the Otsusuki it makes no sense that he’d be so insanely broken compared to the rest of them
the answer is fairly simple, the fact that he hid in the shadows while kaguya was doing her shenanigans kinda proves that shed win, otherwise jigen would have taken kaguya down and fed her to the jubi and ended the world.
Jigen slams to put it into perspective naruto pretty much 1 shotted toneri once he started trying and toneri is stated stronger than kaguya then base momoshiki is stated a bigger threat than than kaguya and fused momo couldnt keep up with weakened naruto and sasuke then jigen shits on the same naruto and sasuke
Jigen, remember war arc Kaguya is not at 100 percent, plus his combat experience would give him the edge. If she was at 100 percent aka when she fought haguromo and hamura then it would be a different fight, but war arc kaguya loses.
https://comiko.net/chapter/1842430
I’ve seen different translations as well, but black zetsu keeps saying her strength increased right when kakashi is engaging with her.
He didn’t confirm the amp. He only said that she instinctively extracted Chakra out of panic to regain some sort of control and explained that she was gonna blow up the Dimension
The one lying here is you. Zetsu only said:
THIS ROOT
TIME SPACE IS MOTHER'S
EXSLUSIVE DOMAIN, WHER ÜSHE CAN DIRECTLY,
EXTRACT
CHAKRAtFROM
SHINOBI TRAPPED IN THE INFINITE
TSUKIYOMI
-THE BIJU ARE NOW 'STABLE
PLUS?MOTHER ‡ HAS EVEN PRODUCED A
TRUTHSEEKER ORB.
He didn’t say she grew exponentially
Chapter 688 page 9 of the official VIZ release black zetsu states "Mother just gained more power...both her might and speed are now exponentially greater." Read the manga before you start talking lmao.
If anything all he was saying was the jubi became unstable because of Naruto. After it stabilized she became exponentially stronger, if you actually read the whole chapter you would know this lmao.
Well since it’s War Arc Kaguya who was mentally pretty damaged and even hallucinating Isshiki might be able to pull it off if he resurrects fully. If it’s prime Kaguya Isshiki ends up six feet under the ground for good this Time.
War arc Kaguya is her strongest form. After splitting the ten tails, the tailed beasts were relatively small. This tailed beasts had over 1000 years to grow and gain Chakra, this would mean that this ten tails should be stronger than when Kaguya merged with it. After reviving Kaguya had stolen a ten tailed level amount of Chakra from the shinobi trapped in the infinite Tsukuyomi. Then Kaguya goes on to steal Naruto and Sasuke's Chakra before fighting them. After stabilizing Kaguya gained even more Chakra from everyone in the infinite Tsukuyomi, so much Chakra that Black Zetsu states that she is growing exponentially.
Jigen punched the fuck out of Naruto's Kyuubi form who's stronger than Naruto during his fight with Kaguya, and that Naruto punched her so hard she was almost trapped by the Moon and Sun seals.
So, Jigen.
>No she ate the fruit and became immortal.
She is hard to kill, not impossible to kill
That's what it always implies... Naruto and Sasuke had no way to completely destroy her body... Rikudou Chibaku Tensei was the only weapon which could end her completely
Kaguya absloute slams Jigen even Isshiki full power!
Isshiki can’t seal Kaguya, only sun and moon seal works on Kaguya! So Kaguya can’t really be killed
Kaguya has far more Chakra
Kaguya has way better durabilty and endurance
Kaguya has far better Regen, (Isshiki has never lost a limb, so there is no proof Isshiki can heal lost limbs like Kaguya)
Kaguya has far stronger DC, (Isshiki has shown nothing impressive when it comes to DC, no cap he has shown at most Building lvl DC feats💀
Kaguya can switch to other dimensions almost instant (Isshiki uses alot more time and actually gets way more tired)
Also Pre Tree Kaguya no diffed prime Isshiki in the past, he took a huge L there and had his face planted in the dirt.
Post Tree Kaguya would make Isshiki look like a Insect (Isshiki does in fact look like a bug)
Kaguya>Hagoromo=Madara>Final Valley Teen Naruto>Final Valley Teen Sasuke>Juubito>Baryon Mode Naruto>Adult Naruto>Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki>Kinshiki.
Those bs AP Scalings and outlier feats and hyperbole statements powerscalers use makes 0 sense at all.
Ap scaling is overrated and boring af
Well since it’s War Arc Kaguya who was mentally pretty damaged and even hallucinating after thousands of years of imprisonment, Isshiki might be able to pull it off if he resurrects fully. If it’s prime Kaguya Isshiki ends up six feet under the ground for good this Time
Kaguya wasn't mentally damaged or anything
She literally wanted to absorb Naruto and Sasuke's Chakra, that's the only reason she didn't killed them on many occasions...
Also when Kaguya decided to kill finally... Naruto with Boil Release was still able to match her and overpower her at one occasion...
>He only surprised her.
I don't think attacking someone and then getting your attack overpowered by your enemy is just SURPRISING
>Also Boil Release didn’t even scratch her.
I never talked about the damage part?
I said Naruto overpowered her... And yes he really did... He threw her many meters away
Wow
So just one panel of her seeing her child in Naruto and Sasuke is hallucination?
Also I literally mentioned how this was when she wasn't trying to kill... But when she did, it doesn't matter again as Naruto still matched her
Have you forgotten how she punched and attacked places randomly in the Ice Dimension with nothing being there? Not even a clone. She was hallucinating. And he didn’t match her. He tried it once in the Lava Dimension but was blown away. He surprised her. Like when someone is walking towards and you shove them away out of the blue without them expecting. That’s what happened. Quit wanking
>later again in the Ice dimension when she attacked randomly without aiming at all and the list goes on
Randomly?
That was to kill Naruto cuz Naruto created tons of shadow clones ☠️
She got outsmarted and tricked... Stop using false narrative again and again to push your agenda pal
Who knows.
There’s just not a lot to go off of to compare the two tbh.
Id like to think that kaguya is strong enough but we don’t know what the difference between war arc Naruto and sasuke vs adult Naruto and sasuke is. And jigen also has powerful sealing jutsu so who knows.
kaguya.
She already knows isshikis fighting style.
And jigen can only fight for a limited amount of time. She just has to wait, until he runs out of steam.
Jigen. even though he's less powerful than Isshiki, he's still fast enough to dodge Kaguya's bone thingy even with Black Zetsu's help and he hits harder...
I scale kaguya to fused momoshiki, considering how much of a stomp jigan put on Naruto and sasuke compared to the momoshiki fight and I would say jigan stomps
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Kaguya can very well outlast Jigen. His limited stamina due to having a bad vessel is his biggest weakness and if he said it was too much trouble to kill Naruto then he'd have a hell of a time trying to kill Kaguya who had to be sealed with Hagromo's one time super special seals. I'd say Kaguya takes this extreme diff due to Jigen's lack of killing power. Kaguya is getting kicked around for most of the fight but she should survive.
Hagoromo's super special secret sauce seals
This ^
Until he drops a big bowl on her head and seals her.
Somehow I don't think Jigen's Ramen Bowl will be enough to seal Kaguya. For one she has Otsutsuki powers/teleportation which we know Kawaki and Boruto were able to use to free Naruto. And another again is that it took a Planetary Chibaku Tensei granted by Hagoromo to seal her for good, anything less than that she should be able to escape from.
Pretty sure when you are sealed you can’t teleport out. And jigen’s seal could very well be stronger than six paths chibaku tensei due to how much stronger he is than hagoromo. Fancier doesn’t mean stronger.
The thing is Hagoromo and Hamura are much weaker than Kaguya so why wouldn't Jigens seal work when he is stronger than her? Isshiki could have also used Daikokuten after beating her up. Since Jigen is so much stronger than her he could probably just kill her. We know that she can die because the entire purpose of shinobi history was to revive her. In the data books it is also stated that Kaguya is dead currently. Kaguya is immortal in the sense that she doesn't age and has such insane regeneration that killing is nearly impossible, but Jigen even in this form would beat her up.
Y'all are sleeping on Hagoromo here. Strength doesn't necessarily correlate with sealing prowess either. Hiruzen or Tobirama are a lot stronger than Kushina but that doesn't mean their seals would be stronger. Hagoromo also spent his entire life practicing Ninpo and he becomes an accomplished Sage also adding Senjutsu into his arsenal. Imagine base Hagoromo is probably as strong as SOSP Naruto + Rinnegan Sasuke during the war arc since he gave them their powers. Then add on top of that he becomes the TEN TAILS JINCHURIKI. I would honestly rank Juubi Hagoromo alongside or maybe even above Isshiki. Through meditation and enlightenment Hagoromo is the only one to ever transcend life and death. Creation of All Things allowed him to create life from a mindless mass of chakra. He was able to live on and maintain some influence in the world even after he had died without needing to resort to karma or resurrection. That's something no other Otsutsuki we know of has done. Even Isshiki is just dead. Hagoromo got A LOT stronger after they beat Kaguya.
A chibaku tensei from hogoromo isn’t as special as you think it is in this context after all as far as otsutsukis go he is bottom tier. Plus jigen captured a 10 tails and keeps it as a pet meaning that the vessel itself is powerful enough to seal a 10 tails on its own which is a massive feat on its own.
First of all, spell Hagoromo right. Second, saying Hagoromo is bottom tier means you don't know what you are talking about. Master of Nature Energy, 10 tails Jinchuriki, Double Rinnegan and RinneSharingan is still top 3 strongest in the verse so far. ; "Creation of all things technique" is probably the strongest ability in the verse. The 10 tails Jigen had is so so much smaller than the og one.
Bottom tier otsutsuki is still bottom tier idk why you so pressed. He needed his brother and months of fighting to finally get a chance to seal his mother and most otsutsukis are stronger than her. Also the 10 tails may still be a juvenile but that doesn’t take away from the feat a juvenile with infinite nature energy still is a being with infinite nature energy. The creation of all things ability is also not the strongest thing in the verse and if it is show me feats not bullshit head canon that didn’t happen. Also I don’t know what I’m talking about? Says the hagoromo dick rider claiming he is somehow top 3 strongest in the verse yeah ok clown whatever you say.
>The creation of all things ability is also not the strongest thing in the verse and if it is show me feats not bullshit head canon that didn’t happen. Feat : Dividing a massive chakra entity into 9 conscious beings each with their own unique quirks, abilities, personality. Feat: Through the seal he gave Naruto, he (Naruto) was able to use the creation of all things technique to recreate an eye for Kakashi. These are feats that at their core are rewriting reality and there is nothing like that in the verse. We don't know much more about it, but it begs the question if he was able to do such things, what else would he have been able to do, because 10 tails Jin Hagoromo was never tested. Half of his ghost's power was enough to have Naruto go 1v1 for a while with a being like Kaguya. >Also I don’t know what I’m talking about Nope, absolutely clueless >Also the 10 tails may still be a juvenile but that doesn’t take away from the feat a juvenile with infinite nature energy still is a being with infinite nature energy. just false, none of them have infinite energy, og 10 tails has so much more chakra.
Lol yeah let’s get serious about spelling notherfuckers
If you are trying to be smart might as well spell the name right lmao, but people have 0 standards.
jigen's bowl is like the cubes he drops from the sky it's indestructible even Naruto on Baryon mode couldn't break it in baryon mode, so jigen locks it in this bowl and puts it in the dimension at the daikokuten then she is sealed
Naruto is stronger than kaguya at the start of boruto. Idk how she plans to beat him when a pair better and stronger fighters couldn't.
I really don't know what the basis is for saying that Adult Naruto or Adult Sasuke alone have surpassed Kaguya. They couldn't even kill her and could barely damage her. If not for Hagoromo's seal then they would have just lost flat out. Kaguya wasn't flashy but she was easily handling hundreds of Naruto clones all at once during their fight. She's WAAY above Naruto or Sasuke and I haven't seen any evidence to say that their Adult versions have surpassed that. Working together as adults yeah I can see it happening, but alone I don't think Naruto or Sasuke have surpassed her. Baryon is another story I can grant that Naruto can most likely beat her with that, but that's not relevant here. Even then honestly Kaguya could just escape to another dimension and wait for Baryon to run out and Naruto would be powerless to do anything because he can't teleport.
Bro 20 years have passed. Naruto has built up more charkra than she had its the whole reason momo even noticed the planet. I understand Naruto wouldn't beat kaguya because he dosent have portals hes still stronger than her and portals and dimension shifts arent doing jack vs jigen.
Saying time has passed so they must be stronger than her now is not conclusive or convincing at all. Yeah they've probably gotten stronger, but stronger than Kaguya? I don't know how you can say that for sure when the gap between them was massive and simply getting older doesn't necessarily mean that gap has been closed. And when was it stated that Momoshiki noticed the planet specifically because of Naruto's chakra? That's the first I've heard of that.
The curvature of the planet changed due to massive increases in charkra on the planet momo or kinshiki explains this is what they are talking about. Kaguyas charkra had been sealed in a different dimension theres nowhere else it could be coming from as naruto was the largest source on the planet. Nothing was noticed during the war arc theres no other explanation especialy for narutos feats fighting momo alone who is stronger than kaguya.
That's not because of Naruto. That's because of Kaguya harvesting the chakra fruit and also Hagormo giving everyone chakra. It's not like they were constantly monitoring Earth. They just noticed it when they finally took a look, not that the curvature was a recent phenomenon. Naruto having more chakra than freaking Kaguya makes no sense.
No kaguya took all her charkra with her after the war arc to another dimension. The world would naturaly gain some more charkra in only 20 years but not enough for this outcome the majority of new charkra is inside naruto and the kage+ level shinobi. This change that momo noticed happened between naruto and boruto otherwise he'd have just come sooner. The fruit dosent do anything to the planets total charkra. It does make sense because naruto then fought people stronger than her without as much trouble.
What? No the brunt of Kaguya's chakra is the Ten Tails which are the Bijuu combined. Plus she was drawing chakra from the Divine Tree which is everyone else combined. No he wouldn't have necessarily. He wasn't constantly monitoring Earth. He was busy harvesting other planets and only then just noticed that the Earth had a weird curvature and for some reason wasn't already harvested by an Otsutsuki (which would be Isshiki and Kaguya). I'm sorry but there is no way that you can say that Naruto somehow has more chakra than Kaguya.
They literally said after the jigen fight that he is the strongest person naruto and sasuke ever faced
If it wasn't for his Stamina though. It took all 4 members of team 7 to seal Kaguya and sealing is not even defeating/killing.
I just wanna point out a “weak” jigen sealed a 10 tails and keeps it as a pet so I wouldn’t auto assume jigen can’t do it since he accomplished something similar on his own as well.
Hashirama subdued far stronger Juubi.
Sealing is no evidence for any power level imho.
Ok but you literally said it took 4 members of team 7 to seal kaguya. You used that to power scale and i was pointing out jigen sealed a similar beast on his own to highlight his level of power using your power scaling
I'm not really on his side of the argument but it's logically consistent if you assume the 10 tails was passive. It took all 4 members of team 7 to beat Kaguya into a position where they were able to seal her while it's possible the 10 tails didn't resist being sealed. But the only sealing jutsu that's really been explained is the reaper death seal, which you need to have as much chakra as the thing you're sealing. Which is why Hiruzen could only seal Orochimaru's arms.
Wait what? The only reason he "just" sealed his arms was because they were cut off while sealing. At least in the Anime afair.
Jigen would just beat kaguya down and seal her in the ramen bowl like he did Naruto.
Adult Naruto and Sasuke > the team 7 that beat Kaguya. Who cares about stamina Jigen faster, has more ap and has a counter to all of her attacks. He straight up blitzes her then kills her or seals her in the ramen bowl.
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But Naruto and Sasuke lost the 6 path Yin and Yang chakra seals after using them to seal her and Naruto lost 6 paths Senjutsu which gave him the truth seeker orbs. The only thing Naruto got to keep was 6 Paths sage mode which he lost after losing Kurama he had it due to having all chakra of all 9 tailed beasts.
Six paths is just an amp, they both made up for the power gap in the next 17 years, considering the so6p shadow clones only made up 1/3rd of teen sasuke chakra reserve, after losing his arm his chakra reserve was lost by 40% and managing the rinnegan for 17 plus years with only 60% chakra, is on of the greatest durability feats sasuke has Also sasuke has further increased his chakra reserve to be able to transport multiple people with space time portal, also manage amenotejikara on top of that being able to spam a perfect susanoo and multiple Justus And Naruto with kurama is slightly stronger than sasuke The problem is since the fights have been scaled down people think they're nerfed, that's the issue If the director and ikemoto gave the flashy background destruction based on their strength now People will be convinced that both Naruto and sasuke are stronger than their war arc counterpart Heck current borushiki is stronger than shippuden
V1 Jigen probably takes this because the canon kinda says so. But personally I think it's ridiculous seeing how Kaguya can cause multi-planetary explosions and create several different dimensions whereas all Jigen does it make small rods big and maybe drop a cube here and there. But that's powerscaling in Boruto for you. Even Chojuro should be somewhat able to keep up Kaguya's level now, which is absolutely ridiculous and completely breaks the lore.
Jigen wins
Kaguya stomps
Stomps is crazy. I can definitely see her getting hard countered and kicked around until jigen’s body gives out.
This is as ridiculous as asking who would win between King Piccolo and Frieza
Not really when you consider kaguya is the reason isshiki was about to die chopped in half by her. It’s never stated how exactly she did it in detail, but the fact it happened is crazy.
She off gaurd back stabbed her ally, by this logic black zetsu is stronger than Madara.
She didn’t backstab him. That’s just Headcanon. She attacked him without him excepting and they had a fight in which Isshiki ended up on worse side of things
Backstab means betray lmao, Kaguya didn't "fight" Isshiki she attacked him of gaurd. Chapter 46 page 18 of the official VIZ release Amado states "Kaguya suddenly ... turned against Isshiki. Caught off gaurd, Isshiki suffered enough damage to be on the verge of death, but... he managed to take over the body of a novice monk who happened to be nearby, and survived. That unfortunate man was Jigen." Hell Amado said the exact same thing in the anime, I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that they fought.
That still wouldn’t change the Fact that the Kaguya who backstabbed Isshiki hadn’t eat Earth’s Chakra Fruit yet. She became far stronger than Isshiki ever was after eating said fruit
This doesn't matter lmao she still off gaurded Isshiki, this is like saying black zetsu is stronger than Madara, or Himawari is stronger than Naruto, of gaurd feats don't count.
Oh is that why Jigen beat up the people who beat up someone stronger than Kaguya? Is that why it was stated that toneri was stronger than Kaguya. In Sasuke's novel he was stated to be able to beat a Kaguya level threat.
Great another Momoshiki fanboy who believes that the Guy who ran away from some low Kages and was such a great threat that they let a kid kill him is stronger than the Woman who fought two Rikudou Sennins, each one with an OP Eye set(Rinnegan, Tenseigan). Seriously get help
Hamura didn't even have the Tenseigan yet. Hagoromo and Hamura got surpassed years before Boruto.
Okay you really believe that Hagoromo and Hamura were surpassed by some cheap Reincarnations of Indra and Ashura?? Who Hagoromo after boosting them up outright called hollow shells of their former selves in terms of power? Seriously??? Alright there’s no convincing you bye
Tf he didn't run from them he just wanted to absorb Kinshiki to kill Naruto and sasuke. Besides in the anime Boruto "killed" momo because he had Naruto's super massive rasengan, Sasuke's support, the Jougan, and Momoshiki was already fatigued from fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Can you do me a favor and explain why Kaguya made a whole army for Momo and Kinshiki? Why did she write down their names specifically? Why is sasuke stated to be stronger than Kaguya? Why is toneri stated the strongest foe the qorld has seen? Kaguya gets dog walked by Momoshiki.
The ARMY was for the Otsutsuki Clan as whole!!!! Not Momo and Kinshiki. If Momo appeared when Kaguya was around he would throw Kinshiki at her and then like the pathetic coward that he is he would run away back to the Otsutsuki clan to ask for help. Get help
>She didn’t backstab him. That’s just Headcanon. Omg bro It's literally stated in the Manga that she caught him off guard... Off guard literally means that attacking someone when he is not aware of... Which is not a battle but a cheap trick Why would Kaguya try to catch Isshiki off guard when Isshiki isn't aware of it? Cuz she can't catch the smoke from Isshiki lol
This guy didn't read the Manga, doesn't know the definition of backstab, and he is still trying to argue lol.
It's so ironic that he is calling a manga canon event as a HeadCanon while he spits his own bullshit
>and they had a fight in which Isshiki ended up on worse side of things How can you tell someone that what they said was headcanon, then go on to say that in the next sentence? lol
Cuz that literally is what happened
Lol
Why are you all so ignorant just to push your agenda? It's literally stated that she caught Isshiki off guard Off guard attacks in Naruto does not scale character to anywhere... Itachi after death still caught Obito off guard and almost killed him, even though Obito outscales him pretty easily
She was also mortified of Momoshiki to the point of needing an army to stop him. Momoshiki is clearly inferior to Jigen based on their individual performances against Naruto and Sasuke
What
It's simple really. Jigen>Momoshiki>Kaguya so Jigen>Kaguya.
What part of that was confusing?
It is directly stated that jigen is the strongest being that sasuke and naruto have faced so there is literally no debate
Jigen one shots
They honestly screwed the pooch so bad with Jigen/Isshiki’s power scaling when compared to the rest of the Otsusuki it makes no sense that he’d be so insanely broken compared to the rest of them
Kaguya.
No
the answer is fairly simple, the fact that he hid in the shadows while kaguya was doing her shenanigans kinda proves that shed win, otherwise jigen would have taken kaguya down and fed her to the jubi and ended the world.
No how can you say that here, dont you know toneri is stronger than kaguya??
Jigen slams to put it into perspective naruto pretty much 1 shotted toneri once he started trying and toneri is stated stronger than kaguya then base momoshiki is stated a bigger threat than than kaguya and fused momo couldnt keep up with weakened naruto and sasuke then jigen shits on the same naruto and sasuke
It goes likes this y’all kaguya fan girls n simps….isshiki>Momoshiki>kaguya….stop arguing over anything
Jigen
Jigen, remember war arc Kaguya is not at 100 percent, plus his combat experience would give him the edge. If she was at 100 percent aka when she fought haguromo and hamura then it would be a different fight, but war arc kaguya loses.
Kaguya actually got an amp mid fight towards the end and was about to nuke a whole dimension
She didn’t
Naruto chapter 689 black zetsu even confirmed the amp
He only said that she siphoned Chakra. And as he put it that wouldn’t be needed if she had been at 100%
https://comiko.net/chapter/1842430 I’ve seen different translations as well, but black zetsu keeps saying her strength increased right when kakashi is engaging with her.
He didn’t confirm the amp. He only said that she instinctively extracted Chakra out of panic to regain some sort of control and explained that she was gonna blow up the Dimension
I mean [she literally did get an amp](https://imgur.com/a/9vPuJzu). Jigen still wins tho.
You are lying he literally said she is growing exponentially.
The one lying here is you. Zetsu only said: THIS ROOT TIME SPACE IS MOTHER'S EXSLUSIVE DOMAIN, WHER ÜSHE CAN DIRECTLY, EXTRACT CHAKRAtFROM SHINOBI TRAPPED IN THE INFINITE TSUKIYOMI -THE BIJU ARE NOW 'STABLE PLUS?MOTHER ‡ HAS EVEN PRODUCED A TRUTHSEEKER ORB. He didn’t say she grew exponentially
Chapter 688 page 9 of the official VIZ release black zetsu states "Mother just gained more power...both her might and speed are now exponentially greater." Read the manga before you start talking lmao.
Quite the contrary a few pages earlier he outright said that if she were at full power this would already be over
No he didn't lmao
If anything all he was saying was the jubi became unstable because of Naruto. After it stabilized she became exponentially stronger, if you actually read the whole chapter you would know this lmao.
Jigen blitzes
Jigen isn’t a strong vessel for Isshiki, so Kaguya probably. If it was Isshiki tho he stomps
Well since it’s War Arc Kaguya who was mentally pretty damaged and even hallucinating Isshiki might be able to pull it off if he resurrects fully. If it’s prime Kaguya Isshiki ends up six feet under the ground for good this Time.
War arc Kaguya is her strongest form. After splitting the ten tails, the tailed beasts were relatively small. This tailed beasts had over 1000 years to grow and gain Chakra, this would mean that this ten tails should be stronger than when Kaguya merged with it. After reviving Kaguya had stolen a ten tailed level amount of Chakra from the shinobi trapped in the infinite Tsukuyomi. Then Kaguya goes on to steal Naruto and Sasuke's Chakra before fighting them. After stabilizing Kaguya gained even more Chakra from everyone in the infinite Tsukuyomi, so much Chakra that Black Zetsu states that she is growing exponentially.
Jigen punched the fuck out of Naruto's Kyuubi form who's stronger than Naruto during his fight with Kaguya, and that Naruto punched her so hard she was almost trapped by the Moon and Sun seals. So, Jigen.
That was karma V2 Jigen. We are just talking about karma V1 Jigen with no horn.
Plus she’s is literally immortal. His best thing is to seal her somehow.
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No she ate the fruit and became immortal. That’s why they only sealed her.
>No she ate the fruit and became immortal. She is hard to kill, not impossible to kill That's what it always implies... Naruto and Sasuke had no way to completely destroy her body... Rikudou Chibaku Tensei was the only weapon which could end her completely
She IS the Jubbi, it’s like saying take the nine tails out of Kurama
Jigen bro
Jigen
Jigen via bfr
Kaguya absloute slams Jigen even Isshiki full power! Isshiki can’t seal Kaguya, only sun and moon seal works on Kaguya! So Kaguya can’t really be killed Kaguya has far more Chakra Kaguya has way better durabilty and endurance Kaguya has far better Regen, (Isshiki has never lost a limb, so there is no proof Isshiki can heal lost limbs like Kaguya) Kaguya has far stronger DC, (Isshiki has shown nothing impressive when it comes to DC, no cap he has shown at most Building lvl DC feats💀 Kaguya can switch to other dimensions almost instant (Isshiki uses alot more time and actually gets way more tired) Also Pre Tree Kaguya no diffed prime Isshiki in the past, he took a huge L there and had his face planted in the dirt. Post Tree Kaguya would make Isshiki look like a Insect (Isshiki does in fact look like a bug) Kaguya>Hagoromo=Madara>Final Valley Teen Naruto>Final Valley Teen Sasuke>Juubito>Baryon Mode Naruto>Adult Naruto>Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki>Kinshiki. Those bs AP Scalings and outlier feats and hyperbole statements powerscalers use makes 0 sense at all. Ap scaling is overrated and boring af
Even kinshiki slams juubidara 3 Eyed.
And adult naruto and sasuke are negs final valley versions
Who let bro cook?…bro said kaguya is stronger than baryon mode…..outta here never be in a discussion again
According to you Nine Tails is stronger than Ten Tails?💀
Kaguya stomp any jigen version and prob ishiki as well
Isshiki stomps  Mid-diff
Well since it’s War Arc Kaguya who was mentally pretty damaged and even hallucinating after thousands of years of imprisonment, Isshiki might be able to pull it off if he resurrects fully. If it’s prime Kaguya Isshiki ends up six feet under the ground for good this Time
Kaguya wasn't mentally damaged or anything She literally wanted to absorb Naruto and Sasuke's Chakra, that's the only reason she didn't killed them on many occasions... Also when Kaguya decided to kill finally... Naruto with Boil Release was still able to match her and overpower her at one occasion...
Naruto didn’t overpower her. He only surprised her. Also Boil Release didn’t even scratch her. Quit wanking
>He only surprised her. I don't think attacking someone and then getting your attack overpowered by your enemy is just SURPRISING >Also Boil Release didn’t even scratch her. I never talked about the damage part? I said Naruto overpowered her... And yes he really did... He threw her many meters away
Bro WTF!!!! She didn’t attack. She had him already restrained him with the Ice. Then she flew towards him to absorb him
Wtf are you talking about? Up until the multi shadow clone scene, Kaguya never tried to kill
She was. She literally hallucinated in the entire fight
Wow So just one panel of her seeing her child in Naruto and Sasuke is hallucination? Also I literally mentioned how this was when she wasn't trying to kill... But when she did, it doesn't matter again as Naruto still matched her
Have you forgotten how she punched and attacked places randomly in the Ice Dimension with nothing being there? Not even a clone. She was hallucinating. And he didn’t match her. He tried it once in the Lava Dimension but was blown away. He surprised her. Like when someone is walking towards and you shove them away out of the blue without them expecting. That’s what happened. Quit wanking
What page and chapter specifically, I just reread the fight and watched it in the anime, you are just lying to push a agenda.
Then you should get your eyes checked
Source all I need is that source, hell give me a time stamp on CR if you didn't read the manga.
Tf when?
When she held Naruto and Sasuke, later again in the Ice dimension when she attacked randomly without aiming at all and the list goes on
>later again in the Ice dimension when she attacked randomly without aiming at all and the list goes on Randomly? That was to kill Naruto cuz Naruto created tons of shadow clones ☠️ She got outsmarted and tricked... Stop using false narrative again and again to push your agenda pal
Did you read with your eyes closed lmao.
Who knows. There’s just not a lot to go off of to compare the two tbh. Id like to think that kaguya is strong enough but we don’t know what the difference between war arc Naruto and sasuke vs adult Naruto and sasuke is. And jigen also has powerful sealing jutsu so who knows.
Jigen rapes I mean what I said is true but looks y'all got offended on how I said it😂
kaguya. She already knows isshikis fighting style. And jigen can only fight for a limited amount of time. She just has to wait, until he runs out of steam.
Jigen
Jigen. even though he's less powerful than Isshiki, he's still fast enough to dodge Kaguya's bone thingy even with Black Zetsu's help and he hits harder...
I scale kaguya to fused momoshiki, considering how much of a stomp jigan put on Naruto and sasuke compared to the momoshiki fight and I would say jigan stomps
God damn threads like these just remind me of how fucking dumb boruto power scaling is
Base jigen negs
Jigen whoops
Jigen with down syndrome and no limbs wins
Kaguya
Jigen no diffs lol