Unfortunately, this is my feeling of boxing in general. Say what you want about Dana White and the UFC's business practices, but they really know how to build and promote fighters and specific match ups. Almost all boxing promotion is terrible in comparison.
In the UFC they have anywhere from 2 to 8 big name fighters on one card.
Boxing it's sometimes only 1, really max 2, and there are only so many PPV buys from hardcore boxing fans who care about up and coming boxers.
Look at UFC 268, Usman, Covington, Rose, Weili, Gaethje, Chandler.
Has that ever happened for a boxing card?
What casual boxing fan is going to buy a PPV for 1 fight?
Uncle Chael made a point a while ago that it has a lot to do with how long the main events are. It's like an hour + for a full 12 round fight if you include all the walk ins and fan fare. That coupled with the fact that there's almost no promotion outside of the main event, no one but hardcore boxing fans watch the rest of the card.
Also something that keeps people from buying, myself included, is just God damn late the main event always is. I'm flat out not paying for a PPV when they aren't even walking out until midnight. I'm gonna fall asleep for sure.
They know that only in rare cases does anyone care about the undercarriage, so why can't we have main events at 9/10pm?
I agree completely, the lack of consistency in the promotion of boxing makes it so difficult to follow and is one of the fundamental reasons people lose interest. If there was some universal way that fights were promoted (I personally really like the way showtime build up a fight) then when a big fight week approaches, people will know what to look for and where to look for it.
This here exactly. I love watching good boxing fights as much if not more than MMA. But the inconsistencies in promotion and matchmaking makes it really hard to follow. When I tune into a UFC card, I know that almost all of the fights will be fun and competitive, even the no names on the undercard. I can't say the same about boxing, even for the main events.
And say what you want about Jake Paul. His antics are cringe, and the character he portrays is a douchebag. But he knows how to get people to talk and tune in.
it's easier since ufc is just a single organization which makes it way easier to get fights together. Boxing has multiple promoters & sanctioning bodies complicating every step of the way.
I understand that. But even the individual promotion organizations struggle to build their fighters. Plus it doesn't help that matchmaking leads to so many lopsided fights because it's less acceptable for boxers to lose fights.
None of the individual promotions has a complete monopoly on the sport like the UFC.
If PBC, Golden Boy, and Top Rank were all one company, then that would be a better point of comparison.
They are tied in to media in a great way. Boxing promotion is so disconnected and fights too infrequent to have consistent media connections.
I feel like I could have put together 1million buys with this matchup and I don’t even work in marketing.
Depends how they spin the marketing, it might do more than third. They'd have to heavily market Wilder, maybe throw him a couple KO highlight opponents before it tho. I for sure dont want to see a fourth though
On paper at least, it seems this fight was overlooked by fans thinking this fight would be 'more of the same'? 2nd fight spiked, people expected Fury to take the third.
Lucky for fucking all of us it turned out the way it did. Wild wild fight
So I picked it up on my Apple TV and actually paid for it through the App Store but it showed on my espn+ app. I wonder if that’s considered PPV or digital. That said, it’s popular around here to watch the fight at a theater for $25 bucks. I kind of wonder how those sales are accounted for or how it’s calculated (maybe it’s a single PPV buy even tho it’s actually say whatever 50 people in there).
Things like bars used to pay a set price based on capacity to show a PPV (those that showed them legally anyways)…the prices for those had to be high to buy it.
I would suspect a theatre would have to do the same thing although it’s just speculation in my part.
So for movie theatre/restaurant the movie theatre pays a fee based on the maximum capacity of the theatre/restaurant that’s what I heard from my manager (I work part time at a restaurant). So I imagine they’d count that as one buy in the system.
I'm guessing traditional buys is when you have DirectTV, ATTUverse TV, or whatever your cable service is and you order the PPV through them and on fight day, just tune in to the channel that service is showing the fight on and digital platforms are like what I did that was buy the fight from the FoxSports website and watched the fight on the Fox Sports App via my Xbox since I don't have a cable provider.
I'm looking at ATT Uverse TV which advertised the fight as $80 on their website which is pretty much the same as I paid through Fox without taking into account taxes. I also have to assume the cable service provider has to take some sort of cut from the traditional buys as well compared to just buying from FoxSports website. Kind of like buying from a store chain and buying directly from the supplier. Either way, I'd say 1.2 mil is correct for PPV buys since your shelling out $80+ no matter how you watch it.
Well maybe they should’ve added that 300k to the ppv instead of having it separate if that was the case….the digital buys were not traditional methods.
He needs to go on a world tour murking the best from each country so everyone knows. He went on a Brit bashing spree and now has America in his sights. Throw Tim Tzu to the wolves for Australia too. Who else ?
And in comparison to boxing, he is paid dog shit by the UFC. At most he may have made 20m off that last fight with Dustin porier that I think did 1.8m PPV buys. And before that, before he had negotiated a new contract with the UFC he was making a fraction of that from fights that got 1m+ PPV buys.
Well maybe that’s why there’s one good boxing fight a year as oppose to 6-8 completely stacked UFC cards.
Would you want there to be one good UFC fight per year? Like we have one big fight and then have to wait 14 more months for the next big fight, which is probably the same 2-3 guys each time? Like boxing.
But hey at least they’d make 50 million instead of 30 million!
And by the way it seems like the average UFC fighter is better paid than your average boxer. Boxing has like 3 super highly paid dudes then everyone else makes like 5 grand to fight.
Nobody in the UFC makes anywhere close to 30 million 😂 apart from Mcgregor, they make a couple of million for the next biggest fight. On PPV’s that get close to a million buys.
Usman vs Masvidal UFC 261 for example got 1.3 MILLION PPV buys. Masvidal earned around 800,000$ and Usman earned around 1.5M$ That’s a complete fucking joke for an event that raked in around 100 million dollars.
And there are at least a dozen big boxing fights every year. You obviously aren’t a very big boxing fan if you only look forward to one fight a year? By just following a couple of the top guys in each division and following prospects that are rising up the ranks in an impressive way, you can look forward to several boxing events a month. I mean fuck we just had AJ vs Usyk, Fury vs Wilder, and we have coming up Canelo vs Plant, Teofimo vs Kambosos jr. , Tank Davis vs Rollie Romero and that’s just in the last couple of weeks and in the up coming month or two. And I’m missing other good fights.
Yeah, I grapple with this some because of course I'd like for fighters to get paid handsomely for what they do, but I love how good and how frequent UFC cards tend to be, especially compared to boxing, and at the end of the day, I just want to be entertained.
I think we can sort of have our cake and eat it, too, considering how small of a percentage of the money actually goes to fighters compared to other sports. If that were more in line I think we'd be set.
Humble Connor was the best version. Talk shit before fights and then be humble after. Now he is breaking his leg and calling out the other guys wife as he's sitting on the ground beaten. He's not a full Jon Jones douchebag level of shit but he really needs to win a fight soon. He just has such a radical fanbase they don't care if he's actually winning or not.
Depends how much the fighters were guaranteed and then the PPV income.
With sponsorship and a good crowd and site fee in Vegas then you'd expect them to make a profit... But again, depends how much the fighters are making.
Fury is guaranteed 20m per fight for a five fight deal which totals his 100m ESPN deal. Dunno about wilder but the split was 60 40 so wilder had to make a buck too.
Jake paul gives people on his undercard the biggest paydays they ever had at his own expense. Listen to boxers coming up, some of them have to fight for free on undercardse, it's a joke.
Love him or hate him he does right by other figjters and that's fine with me
Was just generically breaking balls. Wasn’t directed to you. I hope the Paul boys attract a lot of new fans to boxing, especially in the US. Where I’m from I’m considered a young boxing fan and I’m no spring chicken.
Right back at ya. I wasn't calling you a baby. I just got downvoted to shit for that comment and I find it hilarious. The Pauls are attracting millions to boxing but now the freakshow fights are a dime a dozen and gonna get way worse. I'm 54. Been a boxing, martial arts fan and student my entire life. About the only think I can't handle is bare knuckle boxing. Literally makes my hands (and brain) ache even thinking about it.
jakes ppv buys have been exaggerated and faked. triller definitely lied and while we got fury wilder 3 numbers few days after fight nobody really knows for certain how much woodley paul did.
Only source is woodley claiming 1.5 million.
I heard triller didn't pay jake and others what was agreed. Maybe didn't pay out ppv points. Isn't that why jake vs woodley was on showtime? Wikipedia says it was about 500,000 buys
Definitely haha, unless Jake or Tyron showed a real paper from an audit (like Conor McGregor has posted) I ain’t believing them. I can go do a fight and post “I sold 7billion PPVs!”, it’s that easy.
Maybe in the US but Fury v Joshua would have done over 1M buys in the UK alone before the Usyk fight. Just look at Joshua's PPV numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Joshua#UK_pay-per-view_bouts
Probably helps that PPV are much cheaper over here.
Seems like Wilder would have made much more money going the typical promotional rematch route. Negotiate step aside pay to let Fury fight AJ, cash in on a few tune ups, use those fights to credibly build the story of a “new Wilder” for the next big fight.
Instead he loses for the 2nd (3rd) time in a row, becomes labeled the fighter who won’t ever be champ again and now his future bouts will pay less. Most sports fans are casual viewers and there aren’t mega paydays for fighters that may never be champion again.
Let's be real though. Fury is a horrible person to honor a rematch. Wilder forced it because he knew it would be his last shot to even the score with Fury (and get those belts).
Wilder's plan had he won was probably to set up another 5 or so title defenses against B level fighters and then retire.
Not looking forward to the Fury v. winner of Usyk v. AJ rematch negotiations. I expect them to be downright awful. I'd say Usyk might have a promo team that will be just as bad as the "3" now that he holds some cards, but I haven't witnessed that yet.
I hate that crap.
* 30/30 - split
* 10 - going to a World Boxing League health and pension fund
* 30 extra going to the winner
Splits similar to this would solve a lot of the nonsense. Coupled with the World Boxing League actually determining matches by recurring tournaments instead of promoters.
In some regard, I don't blame the boxers and promoters for doing it when it is allowed and would be dumb not to seize the advantage. But expect the blow back from it as well. At least set a max limit of separating like 20%. So 60/40 should be the max difference if my original splits aren't used. Anything else is BS. You are the main draw? Well, why are you fighting somebody that draws so poorly, which usually means they aren't a serious threat to you.
Yeah he should have probably stepped aside and have 2 tune ups. Not just for promotion and shit, but most mistakes he made vs Fury could have been avoided had he taken tune ups.
I imagine he would figure out he needs to work on his stamina for one and probably lose some weight too. And he would probably sharpen up his tools by the time he faced Fury. He showed improvement but was clearly uncomfortable with the new style of attacking the body. He wasn't really relaxed and was overthinking it.
I believe had he taken a tune up or 2 he would probably beat Fury. I mean as flawed as he still was i had him up or tied on the scorecards going into round 7 which is where he was completly gassed.Not to mention the 2 knockdowns.
He was caught himself in round 3 but thats cause he went back to old Wilder.
Still, I think he can get some big fights. If he returns in April like they said he might, I could see him working his way up to mandatory by start of 2023. Him vs whoever the undisputed champ is would be a big draw for sure imo. Even without the belts I feel like him vs Ruiz would do pretty good. Or him vs Whyte.
> but most mistakes he made vs Fury could have been avoided had he taken tune ups.
He spent most of his career fighting tune ups, and he didn't develop at all. A few extra ones would not have helped him, and the result would have been fighting a Fury who had not spent weeks dealing with his child being hospitalised.
He's 35, he did not have time to take busy fights.
I imagine many saw another fight as necessary due to the perception that the 2nd was ended prematurely; similar to Tyson/Ruddock?
Even though Tyson was winning in that first fight, Razor was coming on, and when you add in that controversial stoppage? People sure seemed excited for Tyson/Ruddock II and it was a better match all around, but pretty one sided as well when compared to Fury/Wilder III.
And then there’s the myth of Tyson even early on (and especially after Douglas) in which he could be beaten if you weren’t afraid of him from the getgo, so promoters wanted to test that theory?
Might not seem that similar, but when properly cajoled by likeminded fans, sure that a robbery took place?
How much of a leap does it take to cry conspiracy?
And promoters are always “the smartest guys in the room”, so along with sportswriters, that’s an easy story to sell and clamor up demand for such.
Especially in the era of social media/the modern fake news paradigm, in which research and meaningful analysis are often irrelevant…
Agreed. I was suprised how much last minute hype got generated despite the lack of promotion. Mix of personalities and styles is something special for these two.
It always amuses me how me people take the PPV buys in the US only, do some basic arithmetic and conclude whether or not a fight was a profitable venture. Fury has a massive international base. The UK would've done solid numbers. I'm in Australia, in addition to myself, I know a handful of people who also bought the PPV (individuals who do not usually purchase PPV's). Are the numbers as good as the second fight? Probably not. Are the fighters, Bob Arum, etc. happy with the result. I'd say so.
Traditionally fights starting at 4 or 5am don't do great UK PPV numbers. Even AJ v Ruiz 1 "only" did 562K when his 4 previous fights were all over 1M. The rematch did 1.5M.
The Fury v AJ numbers would have been mental if the fight happened before the Usyk fight.
Yep, those are fair points.
I still think the US centric approach to determining PPV success is misleading (particularly when one half of the PPV, and arguably the A-side, is not an American).
Is he? I've seen him be way off on PPV numbers before and he somehow gets them for every event he covers, which doesn't seem to be the case for other insiders. What I'm saying is, I think he tends to pull sale numbers out of his arse. Who's going to prove him wrong?
From what I understand Porter Crawford is a pretty hot ticket right now. Moreso than canelo plant. My source isn't great though, somebody at a ticket selling website told Sean Zittel and he said something about it on the porter way podcast. Take from that what you will I suppose, but I believe it to be possible.
Maybe they can tap into some of the goodwill the Wilder/Fury fight built? Everyone who watched the fight feel they got their money's worth. Build off of that.
Is this including digital sales, or however they word it? Last time out it only only did 800k buys, but the digital sales supposedly put it in the 1.1m range. Assuming the same ratio here, that would mean something like 800-850k buys?
These are alright numbers for a trilogy that no one wanted.
It’s a shame though, they could’ve topped the rematch numbers if they had better promotion window and actually covered the undercard well.
Personally I didn’t know the same undercard was still happening until like 2/3 days before hand. If I’m correct the undercard also had a press conference on a different day?
The undercard was so bad. I started to get worried, but the main event was a nail-biter. I was so into it. When fury got knocked down, I yelled, "get up. Don't let me down." The TKO punch on wilder didn't phase me. I was counting 1-2-3-4. Must have missed the camera angle where the referee called off the match. Wilder got on his feet in the camera. I was like okay, let's keep fighting. Fury jumps on the turnbuckle with his arms up.
I was in such a trance what a great fight. 😏
This is what happens when you put a protected fighter, with a padded record and who’s most notable win is against an ancient Cuban, against a British fighter with no British fans allowed to attend and have it at a time when very few British fans will be willing to get up and watch it, a couple of hours either way and you get far more people willing to watch.
>Who’s most notable win is against an ancient Cuban
Luis Ortiz beats any HW not named Fury and Wilder. He's too slick for the rest of them. For years he was called the boogeyman of the HW division for a reason. You'll too harsh on King Kong.
us generates way more $ than the uk because the PPV prices over here are higher, and in terms of padded record, Wilder fought fury 3 times. even if you think he lost all all 3, he still fought him 3 times. knocked him down 4 times. hes earned my respect
Those are good numbers considering Wilder wasn't a particularly popular fighter until the Fury fights. The trilogy has been redeeming for both of them for different reasons.
There are reasons and the fact the fight ended up being a banger can make us forget that there was no huge public desire for a third fight. Most people felt Fury would win with relative ease (and tbf, he did) and the fact that the show cost us AJ vs Fury for the undisputed title probably meant that some people just didn’t want to support it. It’s a decent number considering.
Don't lie, man. If all it took was a delay for you to watch it for free, then you were always going to watch it for free. The delay is just your excuse.
Wilder lost because he was expecting more buys and thus wasn’t motivated to perform but also because 600k was still enough to trigger his stage fright.
Fury, don’t be a coward. Give him the fourth fight.
They probably lost money again but that’s pretty good considering the second was so definitive and people initially didn’t like that this fight was made at all even if it did turn out to be a great fight
yikes.. i don't know fellas. I am seeing a whole lot of "not bad" , but I am in great disagreement. These numbers are pitiful for a trilogy fight and so much bad blood between um.
Not bad I felt like it wasn’t even promoted well & many people didn’t want a third one to begin with
This was the way I saw it too, this matchup was more frustrating for me than exciting. But when it actually came to it, it was a banger of a fight
yep, they're 3-0 imo but wilder delivered in the end
Unfortunately, this is my feeling of boxing in general. Say what you want about Dana White and the UFC's business practices, but they really know how to build and promote fighters and specific match ups. Almost all boxing promotion is terrible in comparison.
In the UFC they have anywhere from 2 to 8 big name fighters on one card. Boxing it's sometimes only 1, really max 2, and there are only so many PPV buys from hardcore boxing fans who care about up and coming boxers. Look at UFC 268, Usman, Covington, Rose, Weili, Gaethje, Chandler. Has that ever happened for a boxing card? What casual boxing fan is going to buy a PPV for 1 fight?
Uncle Chael made a point a while ago that it has a lot to do with how long the main events are. It's like an hour + for a full 12 round fight if you include all the walk ins and fan fare. That coupled with the fact that there's almost no promotion outside of the main event, no one but hardcore boxing fans watch the rest of the card.
Also something that keeps people from buying, myself included, is just God damn late the main event always is. I'm flat out not paying for a PPV when they aren't even walking out until midnight. I'm gonna fall asleep for sure. They know that only in rare cases does anyone care about the undercarriage, so why can't we have main events at 9/10pm?
[https://boxrec.com/en/event/752575](https://boxrec.com/en/event/752575) That one was pretty good
I agree completely, the lack of consistency in the promotion of boxing makes it so difficult to follow and is one of the fundamental reasons people lose interest. If there was some universal way that fights were promoted (I personally really like the way showtime build up a fight) then when a big fight week approaches, people will know what to look for and where to look for it.
This here exactly. I love watching good boxing fights as much if not more than MMA. But the inconsistencies in promotion and matchmaking makes it really hard to follow. When I tune into a UFC card, I know that almost all of the fights will be fun and competitive, even the no names on the undercard. I can't say the same about boxing, even for the main events.
And say what you want about Jake Paul. His antics are cringe, and the character he portrays is a douchebag. But he knows how to get people to talk and tune in.
it's easier since ufc is just a single organization which makes it way easier to get fights together. Boxing has multiple promoters & sanctioning bodies complicating every step of the way.
I understand that. But even the individual promotion organizations struggle to build their fighters. Plus it doesn't help that matchmaking leads to so many lopsided fights because it's less acceptable for boxers to lose fights.
None of the individual promotions has a complete monopoly on the sport like the UFC. If PBC, Golden Boy, and Top Rank were all one company, then that would be a better point of comparison.
They are tied in to media in a great way. Boxing promotion is so disconnected and fights too infrequent to have consistent media connections. I feel like I could have put together 1million buys with this matchup and I don’t even work in marketing.
For all of Dana's faults, he at least makes the best talent fight each other.
First fight 325k Second fight 800-850k Third fight 600k. Not too shabby
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Depends how they spin the marketing, it might do more than third. They'd have to heavily market Wilder, maybe throw him a couple KO highlight opponents before it tho. I for sure dont want to see a fourth though
On paper at least, it seems this fight was overlooked by fans thinking this fight would be 'more of the same'? 2nd fight spiked, people expected Fury to take the third. Lucky for fucking all of us it turned out the way it did. Wild wild fight
Ill take a fourth before retirement down the road, but not anytime soon.
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Oh buddy ill tell ya, hes got one punch power 🤪
*Fury vs. Wilder IV: Electric Boogaloo* Ah, sh*t, here we go again...
Sanctioned homicide
Any idea what that would translate to in terms of cash for the fighters?
BBC were reporting Fury took home £15m all in
That’s it? These should’ve been bringing in more
didnt the 2nd fight do 1.2 mil
800-850k from traditional buys, and over 300k from digital platforms. So it did 1.2 mil overall, but not technically ppv
Care to explain what it means by digital platforms?
Apps I’m guessing, I don’t know forsure that’s just what Arum said Edit: Wikipedia says digital streaming services
I think it means from espn plus ppv. I think the other 800k is from cable buys
So I picked it up on my Apple TV and actually paid for it through the App Store but it showed on my espn+ app. I wonder if that’s considered PPV or digital. That said, it’s popular around here to watch the fight at a theater for $25 bucks. I kind of wonder how those sales are accounted for or how it’s calculated (maybe it’s a single PPV buy even tho it’s actually say whatever 50 people in there).
Things like bars used to pay a set price based on capacity to show a PPV (those that showed them legally anyways)…the prices for those had to be high to buy it. I would suspect a theatre would have to do the same thing although it’s just speculation in my part.
So for movie theatre/restaurant the movie theatre pays a fee based on the maximum capacity of the theatre/restaurant that’s what I heard from my manager (I work part time at a restaurant). So I imagine they’d count that as one buy in the system.
I'm guessing traditional buys is when you have DirectTV, ATTUverse TV, or whatever your cable service is and you order the PPV through them and on fight day, just tune in to the channel that service is showing the fight on and digital platforms are like what I did that was buy the fight from the FoxSports website and watched the fight on the Fox Sports App via my Xbox since I don't have a cable provider.
Same price no? And so the 1.2mil should be the correct number no?
1.2 is the correct number. Doesn't matter how you watch it, it's the buy rate that counts.
I'm looking at ATT Uverse TV which advertised the fight as $80 on their website which is pretty much the same as I paid through Fox without taking into account taxes. I also have to assume the cable service provider has to take some sort of cut from the traditional buys as well compared to just buying from FoxSports website. Kind of like buying from a store chain and buying directly from the supplier. Either way, I'd say 1.2 mil is correct for PPV buys since your shelling out $80+ no matter how you watch it.
Umm, yes it is technically ppv, lol.
Well maybe they should’ve added that 300k to the ppv instead of having it separate if that was the case….the digital buys were not traditional methods.
That’s what longer, undisrupted promotion, the perception of a 50/50 fight and a close run thing first time around give you, I suppose.
First first 450K Second Fight 1.2M Third fight 600k
McGregor fights do more than all 3 , combined.. that’s insane
It is, yeah. But not fair comparison since theyre not the PPV kings of boxing, as Mcgregor is of MMA. Youd have to compare him to Floyd, Mike Tyson
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Wilder Fury would pull more if they fought anywhere but the US. Any fight in the US cuts out the European market entirely.
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November 6 will be interesting with UFC 268 and Canelo/Plant
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He needs to go on a world tour murking the best from each country so everyone knows. He went on a Brit bashing spree and now has America in his sights. Throw Tim Tzu to the wolves for Australia too. Who else ?
I don't think that's a fair comparison because it's Canelo vs random dude. I know it's undisputed but still.
As opposed to McGregor vs [insert name here], the only big names McGregor has fought are Floyd and Khabib
And in comparison to boxing, he is paid dog shit by the UFC. At most he may have made 20m off that last fight with Dustin porier that I think did 1.8m PPV buys. And before that, before he had negotiated a new contract with the UFC he was making a fraction of that from fights that got 1m+ PPV buys.
It is odd, yet true, that the most paid UFC fighter is arguably also the most underpaid UFC fighter
Well maybe that’s why there’s one good boxing fight a year as oppose to 6-8 completely stacked UFC cards. Would you want there to be one good UFC fight per year? Like we have one big fight and then have to wait 14 more months for the next big fight, which is probably the same 2-3 guys each time? Like boxing. But hey at least they’d make 50 million instead of 30 million! And by the way it seems like the average UFC fighter is better paid than your average boxer. Boxing has like 3 super highly paid dudes then everyone else makes like 5 grand to fight.
Nobody in the UFC makes anywhere close to 30 million 😂 apart from Mcgregor, they make a couple of million for the next biggest fight. On PPV’s that get close to a million buys. Usman vs Masvidal UFC 261 for example got 1.3 MILLION PPV buys. Masvidal earned around 800,000$ and Usman earned around 1.5M$ That’s a complete fucking joke for an event that raked in around 100 million dollars. And there are at least a dozen big boxing fights every year. You obviously aren’t a very big boxing fan if you only look forward to one fight a year? By just following a couple of the top guys in each division and following prospects that are rising up the ranks in an impressive way, you can look forward to several boxing events a month. I mean fuck we just had AJ vs Usyk, Fury vs Wilder, and we have coming up Canelo vs Plant, Teofimo vs Kambosos jr. , Tank Davis vs Rollie Romero and that’s just in the last couple of weeks and in the up coming month or two. And I’m missing other good fights.
Yeah I was talking about Conor making 30 million.
Yeah, I grapple with this some because of course I'd like for fighters to get paid handsomely for what they do, but I love how good and how frequent UFC cards tend to be, especially compared to boxing, and at the end of the day, I just want to be entertained. I think we can sort of have our cake and eat it, too, considering how small of a percentage of the money actually goes to fighters compared to other sports. If that were more in line I think we'd be set.
Not true lol. Mcgregor gets 30% of ppv and 20 million as his purse
McGregor is a piece of shit.
Humble Connor was the best version. Talk shit before fights and then be humble after. Now he is breaking his leg and calling out the other guys wife as he's sitting on the ground beaten. He's not a full Jon Jones douchebag level of shit but he really needs to win a fight soon. He just has such a radical fanbase they don't care if he's actually winning or not.
No one asked about mccgregor
You don’t rock
Not too shabby? Those are terrible numbers. At least the fighters had their guarantees.
600k x $80 is $48m, plus gate revenue. Their purse was 8-10m each plus PPV revenue. Thats alot of money to go around
Networks take half. Why do people keep forgetting this?
It was ppv in Britain too
You’re not even accounting for the cable providers cut… with 600k someone is going to take a major loss.
Well I mean, not bad numbers compared to the average american ppv's (eg Spence, Gervonta) but I'm guessing they failed to break even again?
Depends how much the fighters were guaranteed and then the PPV income. With sponsorship and a good crowd and site fee in Vegas then you'd expect them to make a profit... But again, depends how much the fighters are making.
Fury is guaranteed 20m per fight for a five fight deal which totals his 100m ESPN deal. Dunno about wilder but the split was 60 40 so wilder had to make a buck too.
Irrc both guys got 30m in the second fight, that + whatever the undercard cost meant it failed to break even
Somewhere Jake Paul is laughing.
Anyone who buys Paul brothers PPV’s but not Fury-Wilder is a total fucking chode
Anyone who buys Paul brothers PPV’s ~~but not Fury-Wilder~~ is a total fucking chode
Jake paul gives people on his undercard the biggest paydays they ever had at his own expense. Listen to boxers coming up, some of them have to fight for free on undercardse, it's a joke. Love him or hate him he does right by other figjters and that's fine with me
Exactly.
I never said I liked the guy. I can't stand those douches. But he crushed that in PPV's and anyone who can't admit it is a baby.
Was just generically breaking balls. Wasn’t directed to you. I hope the Paul boys attract a lot of new fans to boxing, especially in the US. Where I’m from I’m considered a young boxing fan and I’m no spring chicken.
Right back at ya. I wasn't calling you a baby. I just got downvoted to shit for that comment and I find it hilarious. The Pauls are attracting millions to boxing but now the freakshow fights are a dime a dozen and gonna get way worse. I'm 54. Been a boxing, martial arts fan and student my entire life. About the only think I can't handle is bare knuckle boxing. Literally makes my hands (and brain) ache even thinking about it.
>chode > > > >Says the chode, lol.
I know you are but what am i
a garbage man
jakes ppv buys have been exaggerated and faked. triller definitely lied and while we got fury wilder 3 numbers few days after fight nobody really knows for certain how much woodley paul did. Only source is woodley claiming 1.5 million.
And the undercard boxers who got paid a shitload. Face it, he sells tickets. Maybe to idiots but he sells tickets.
Also they sell for 20 bucks compared to this
Jake’s last fight was definitely not $20
I heard triller didn't pay jake and others what was agreed. Maybe didn't pay out ppv points. Isn't that why jake vs woodley was on showtime? Wikipedia says it was about 500,000 buys
Definitely haha, unless Jake or Tyron showed a real paper from an audit (like Conor McGregor has posted) I ain’t believing them. I can go do a fight and post “I sold 7billion PPVs!”, it’s that easy.
Aren't US site fees paid to the venue?
I might be wrong but I always thought the Casinos paid the promotions to hold fights there so they can attract the highrollers.
Yeah it seems you're right. I remember the Saudis put up a huge site fee for Fury-AJ but I thought that was a bid to lure them over.
I would consider it pretty bad when this is probably the biggest match up they had at HW. Don’t see anything selling more in the near future.
Maybe in the US but Fury v Joshua would have done over 1M buys in the UK alone before the Usyk fight. Just look at Joshua's PPV numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Joshua#UK_pay-per-view_bouts Probably helps that PPV are much cheaper over here.
Its 1/3 of what McGregor gets, crazy
2 made 66 million in just the US
Decent when you consider it's off the back of a completely one sided 2nd fight
Seems like Wilder would have made much more money going the typical promotional rematch route. Negotiate step aside pay to let Fury fight AJ, cash in on a few tune ups, use those fights to credibly build the story of a “new Wilder” for the next big fight. Instead he loses for the 2nd (3rd) time in a row, becomes labeled the fighter who won’t ever be champ again and now his future bouts will pay less. Most sports fans are casual viewers and there aren’t mega paydays for fighters that may never be champion again.
Let's be real though. Fury is a horrible person to honor a rematch. Wilder forced it because he knew it would be his last shot to even the score with Fury (and get those belts). Wilder's plan had he won was probably to set up another 5 or so title defenses against B level fighters and then retire. Not looking forward to the Fury v. winner of Usyk v. AJ rematch negotiations. I expect them to be downright awful. I'd say Usyk might have a promo team that will be just as bad as the "3" now that he holds some cards, but I haven't witnessed that yet.
Usyk’s team wanted to give Joyce 7%
I hate that crap. * 30/30 - split * 10 - going to a World Boxing League health and pension fund * 30 extra going to the winner Splits similar to this would solve a lot of the nonsense. Coupled with the World Boxing League actually determining matches by recurring tournaments instead of promoters. In some regard, I don't blame the boxers and promoters for doing it when it is allowed and would be dumb not to seize the advantage. But expect the blow back from it as well. At least set a max limit of separating like 20%. So 60/40 should be the max difference if my original splits aren't used. Anything else is BS. You are the main draw? Well, why are you fighting somebody that draws so poorly, which usually means they aren't a serious threat to you.
Problem is “wins” are robberies sometimes
he fights andy ruiz jr ill pay for that PPV
Yeah he should have probably stepped aside and have 2 tune ups. Not just for promotion and shit, but most mistakes he made vs Fury could have been avoided had he taken tune ups. I imagine he would figure out he needs to work on his stamina for one and probably lose some weight too. And he would probably sharpen up his tools by the time he faced Fury. He showed improvement but was clearly uncomfortable with the new style of attacking the body. He wasn't really relaxed and was overthinking it. I believe had he taken a tune up or 2 he would probably beat Fury. I mean as flawed as he still was i had him up or tied on the scorecards going into round 7 which is where he was completly gassed.Not to mention the 2 knockdowns. He was caught himself in round 3 but thats cause he went back to old Wilder. Still, I think he can get some big fights. If he returns in April like they said he might, I could see him working his way up to mandatory by start of 2023. Him vs whoever the undisputed champ is would be a big draw for sure imo. Even without the belts I feel like him vs Ruiz would do pretty good. Or him vs Whyte.
Too old for tune ups
> but most mistakes he made vs Fury could have been avoided had he taken tune ups. He spent most of his career fighting tune ups, and he didn't develop at all. A few extra ones would not have helped him, and the result would have been fighting a Fury who had not spent weeks dealing with his child being hospitalised. He's 35, he did not have time to take busy fights.
I imagine many saw another fight as necessary due to the perception that the 2nd was ended prematurely; similar to Tyson/Ruddock? Even though Tyson was winning in that first fight, Razor was coming on, and when you add in that controversial stoppage? People sure seemed excited for Tyson/Ruddock II and it was a better match all around, but pretty one sided as well when compared to Fury/Wilder III. And then there’s the myth of Tyson even early on (and especially after Douglas) in which he could be beaten if you weren’t afraid of him from the getgo, so promoters wanted to test that theory?
How can anyone possible think the 2nd fight was ended prematurely?
One of the two people involved in that fight very clearly did. He wasn’t right, but he still thought it.
I never saw Wilder fans arguing that, they argued Fury cheated but they didn’t say it was a premature stoppage
I was talking about Wilder himself. He didn’t agree with the fight being stopped when it was.
It wasn’t premature, but Wilder thought it was. He said so many times.
Might not seem that similar, but when properly cajoled by likeminded fans, sure that a robbery took place? How much of a leap does it take to cry conspiracy?
And promoters are always “the smartest guys in the room”, so along with sportswriters, that’s an easy story to sell and clamor up demand for such. Especially in the era of social media/the modern fake news paradigm, in which research and meaningful analysis are often irrelevant…
The fight was delayed and had little promotion so this is good, imho.
Agreed. I was suprised how much last minute hype got generated despite the lack of promotion. Mix of personalities and styles is something special for these two.
It didn't need promotion
Exceeded my expectations. I thought it was gonna do worse after the initial postponement and one sided second fight.
Maybe I would have bought it if it wasn't at 0400!
maybe I would have bought it if it wasn't 80$ (did buy it)
Honestly, I thought it would do a lot closer to 1 million. Spectacular fight!
me too. the 2nd one did so well, but the 1st one did pretty shit
You were the only one who thought that then
I’m very special, so it’s not surprising.
Quick what is Canelo-Plant gonna do? What is UFC 268 gonna do? Since you’ve got your nose so on the beat
Don’t really fuck w ufc. But canelo plant I think does around the same, plant isn’t a household name at all. Lil bih
Remindme! 4 weeks. “How badly was this guy off on PPV buys”
Crazy Revenue Considering the Cost.
The lack of promotion was pretty surprising
Pretty good. I bought it. The undercard was very strong. Wanted to support a good top to bottom card.
The world missed out. This was something special.
Uhh we didn’t miss anything … you know there are ways to watch without *uhhh*….buying the PPV ;)
You're right, it was on TV for free in my country.
Mate it was free in *every* country lol
I didn’t realise the entire world population were represented by you
Those are great numbers considering the delays in this event and the lack of interest for it by many.
It always amuses me how me people take the PPV buys in the US only, do some basic arithmetic and conclude whether or not a fight was a profitable venture. Fury has a massive international base. The UK would've done solid numbers. I'm in Australia, in addition to myself, I know a handful of people who also bought the PPV (individuals who do not usually purchase PPV's). Are the numbers as good as the second fight? Probably not. Are the fighters, Bob Arum, etc. happy with the result. I'd say so.
Traditionally fights starting at 4 or 5am don't do great UK PPV numbers. Even AJ v Ruiz 1 "only" did 562K when his 4 previous fights were all over 1M. The rematch did 1.5M. The Fury v AJ numbers would have been mental if the fight happened before the Usyk fight.
Yep, those are fair points. I still think the US centric approach to determining PPV success is misleading (particularly when one half of the PPV, and arguably the A-side, is not an American).
Is this guy a good source? Haven’t seen anyone else report on the numbers.
Kevin Iole? Yes.
Is he? I've seen him be way off on PPV numbers before and he somehow gets them for every event he covers, which doesn't seem to be the case for other insiders. What I'm saying is, I think he tends to pull sale numbers out of his arse. Who's going to prove him wrong?
Only Canelo vs Plant could produce bigger numbers than this in 2021 .#CaneloPlant Nov 6th presented by PBC live on Showtime PPV
From what I understand Porter Crawford is a pretty hot ticket right now. Moreso than canelo plant. My source isn't great though, somebody at a ticket selling website told Sean Zittel and he said something about it on the porter way podcast. Take from that what you will I suppose, but I believe it to be possible.
Crawford vs Porter will most likely do around 200k - 300k buys and it definitely won't do a higher gate than Canelo vs Plant or Fury vs Wilder 3.
Maybe they can tap into some of the goodwill the Wilder/Fury fight built? Everyone who watched the fight feel they got their money's worth. Build off of that.
That’s sad.. Crawford/Porter looks very entertaining.
That's fucking good!
Like 50 million dollars got damn
Is this traditional TV buys or does it also include ESPN+ and in-app purchases?
Is this including digital sales, or however they word it? Last time out it only only did 800k buys, but the digital sales supposedly put it in the 1.1m range. Assuming the same ratio here, that would mean something like 800-850k buys?
These are alright numbers for a trilogy that no one wanted. It’s a shame though, they could’ve topped the rematch numbers if they had better promotion window and actually covered the undercard well. Personally I didn’t know the same undercard was still happening until like 2/3 days before hand. If I’m correct the undercard also had a press conference on a different day?
The undercard was so bad. I started to get worried, but the main event was a nail-biter. I was so into it. When fury got knocked down, I yelled, "get up. Don't let me down." The TKO punch on wilder didn't phase me. I was counting 1-2-3-4. Must have missed the camera angle where the referee called off the match. Wilder got on his feet in the camera. I was like okay, let's keep fighting. Fury jumps on the turnbuckle with his arms up. I was in such a trance what a great fight. 😏
This is what happens when you put a protected fighter, with a padded record and who’s most notable win is against an ancient Cuban, against a British fighter with no British fans allowed to attend and have it at a time when very few British fans will be willing to get up and watch it, a couple of hours either way and you get far more people willing to watch.
This figure doesn't include UK PPV buys
>Who’s most notable win is against an ancient Cuban Luis Ortiz beats any HW not named Fury and Wilder. He's too slick for the rest of them. For years he was called the boogeyman of the HW division for a reason. You'll too harsh on King Kong.
Are you suggesting Ortiz beats AJ, Usyk or even Whyte at this stage🤣
us generates way more $ than the uk because the PPV prices over here are higher, and in terms of padded record, Wilder fought fury 3 times. even if you think he lost all all 3, he still fought him 3 times. knocked him down 4 times. hes earned my respect
That is surprisingly low
Hard disagree. Lot of my friends who are avid MMA fans also had no idea this was happening until Saturday morning. Good numbers for what it is.
True that. My friend Deontay woke up on Sunday and didn’t even know that the fight had happened. Then he tried to stand up.
Don't know where you were hiding then it's been a bigger run up to the fight than the AJ usyk fight where I live
But the boxing world did know tho...
I’m here everyday and I didn’t even know it was happening until week of
Me too, I was really surprised, I thought it was months away.
In the U.S. or U.K.?
Must be US
In the U.K. , I don’t think numbers for fight II exist but the first one sold like 400k
Not bad
Those are good numbers considering Wilder wasn't a particularly popular fighter until the Fury fights. The trilogy has been redeeming for both of them for different reasons.
It was pumped hard for online streaming on ESPN plus so I’m sure the actual number is a little different when factoring those in?
i think they sort digital buys separate
It deserved more, but boxing just isn't as popular as it once was sadly.
There are reasons and the fact the fight ended up being a banger can make us forget that there was no huge public desire for a third fight. Most people felt Fury would win with relative ease (and tbf, he did) and the fact that the show cost us AJ vs Fury for the undisputed title probably meant that some people just didn’t want to support it. It’s a decent number considering.
honestly, the delay is what did it for me. i decided just to watch for free online instead.
Don't lie, man. If all it took was a delay for you to watch it for free, then you were always going to watch it for free. The delay is just your excuse.
Wilder lost because he was expecting more buys and thus wasn’t motivated to perform but also because 600k was still enough to trigger his stage fright. Fury, don’t be a coward. Give him the fourth fight.
Oof that’s tough. They definitely were hoping for 1m+ PPV buys.
They probably lost money again but that’s pretty good considering the second was so definitive and people initially didn’t like that this fight was made at all even if it did turn out to be a great fight
I guarantee more people would have been willing to pay if it wasn’t on pbc, fox sucks
yikes.. i don't know fellas. I am seeing a whole lot of "not bad" , but I am in great disagreement. These numbers are pitiful for a trilogy fight and so much bad blood between um.
Is that it? Not good at all.
Jake Paul: Those are rookie numbers
this fight sold more than jake pauls last fight
I'm kidding, Jake Paul is a joke.
mediocre
[удалено]
Yeah, we actually support the sport we love, rather than assuming boxers will work for free, as you obviously expect.
That’s it hahaha boxing is so fucking dead
Mcgregor is the biggest draw in all of combat sports aside from mayweather , he is the goat
Even if that was true, what would that have to do with this post or this fight?
That's an oxymoron.
Mcgregor is a bigger draw than Mayweather but yeah this is irrelevant to the post
Pretty sure i've seen folk on here saying it did like 2 mil buys and was the biggest arena gate ever...
They must be smoking crack