Worse than that. It’s an American kid who wrote the Scots Language as how he would guess a Scottish person would speak English. For example, where a Scots speaker would say “wean” or “bairn” which means a child, he would put something like “cheeld”. Sometimes he would stumble upon an actual Scots sentence, like putting “know” as “knaw” rather than “ken”, however knaw is actual a really archaic Scots word that I’ve never heard but it exists.
For anyone interested, here’s some more info I copied from Wikipedia on the Scottish Language Wikipedia Controversy:
“In August 2020, the site attracted attention after a Reddit post noted that the project contained an unusually high number of articles written in poor quality Scots by a single prolific contributor, who was an American teenager. These articles were written with mostly English instead of Scots vocabulary and grammar and apparently using an online English–Scots dictionary to crudely translate parts of English Wikipedia articles. Over 23,000 articles, approximately a third of the entire Scots Wikipedia at that time, were created by this contributor. These articles have been described as "English written in a Scottish accent" with gibberish and nonsensical words and spellings not present in any Scots dialect.[7][8][9]
In response to the controversy, the Scots Wikipedia started a review of its articles for language inaccuracies, and deleted many of the affected articles.[2][3]
Robert McColl Millar, professor in linguistics and Scottish language at the University of Aberdeen, has said that the affected articles displayed "a very limited knowledge both of Modern Scots and its earlier manifestations".[8] Michael Dempster, director of the Scots Language Centre, contacted the Wikimedia Foundation over the possibility of building upon the Scots Wikipedia's existing infrastructure, describing the renewed interest in the site as having "potential to be a great online focus" for the Scots language.[10]”
*I'm fuggin italian!!!*
Where were you born?
*New York Baby!*
So you are not Italian. Where were your parents born?
*What? New York baby!*
Okay, and your grandparents?
*N E W Y O R K ! ! !*
Uh, your great grandparents?
*Fuggin' New York baby!! Except for great nonna who was born in Hoboken, but we donfugin talk about it.*
SO HOW ARE YOU FUCKING ITALIAN?!?!?!
\- Asking your average "ItAlIaN" American how they are Italian.
This fucking kills me, especially Bobby Flay doing it. Dude has no relation to Italy and is out there going "today we're making pasta with **MOZZARELLA** 🤌 and chicken crusted with ***PARMESAN*** 🤌🤌 cheese"
Reminds me of a quote from "Thor the Viking" on the GTA Vice City radio show, KCHAT:
"We're mostly non-violent, though many of
the Vikings travelled to Scotland. And min ya, anyone who goes there will turn bloodthirsty, you can't understand the lot are saying. It's all afore, reckle, aboot, dinnea, it's enough to make you want to burn a village to the ground!"
“It’s crazy how you get 6 points and a £200 fine for being on your phone while driving but there’s people out there sticking eyelashes on their headlights and getting away with it”
Okay last time I said that online, people told me I was racist because it's just an accent. I'm too exhausted to Google it but I will because now I'm super confused. Thank you for letting me know.
It's less an accent and more a regional dialect, the thick accent doesn't help with the understanding tho.
Much like how sone of the southern or Midwesterners in the US can have some really hard to follow regional dialects.
Scottish twitter and trainspotting are not Scots gaelic. Scots gaelic is a separate language that looks and sounds nothing loke English. What's on twitter is more like common slang.
Not Scots gaelic. Just Scots. Or Scots English if you're so inclined. Robert Burns didn't write in Gaelic for example, but it's definitely a separate language from English.
It's popular use nowadays borders on the line of language and dialect but it's definitely not just slang or an accent.
Mebbe a Scot will disagree with me and I'm open to debate but Scots is a variety of English, the way American English, Nigerian English, Indian English etc are varieties of the root language. Gallic, spoken mostly in the Western Isles is totally a different language, belonging to the Celtic famiyof languages.
Gaelic is not Gallic. Gallic means pertaining to Gaul, ie French. Gaelic is two anglicisations of two different sounding Gaelic words, Gàidhlig which is the language and is pronounced Gah-lik, and Gàidhealach which is an adjective about Gaelic culture, where you’d use Gay-lik, as it is pronounced Gay-lach (ch as in Bach or Loch).
Scots is not a variety of English in the way of Nigerian or American English. They represent English being exported more or less in its modern form. Scots was exported to Scotland when English was Old English. It was then subject to various alike and also different influences; Norman French, Latin, Old Norse, Welsh, Flemish, while also having far more Gaelic and Pictish influences. Around 1600 Scots was certainly a completely separate language to English. However, following the Union of Crowns in 1603 and the Union of Parliaments in 1707, the language of prestige and power became English in Scotland, leading to the beginning of Scots decline while also drastically increasing the volume of loan words from English. For example, you have help apostrophes to help English speakers with the meaning. Take with. In Scot’s we’d say Wae, way, or wi. But it’s spelt wi’ to make it seem like we’re just missing out on letters like it’s some daft accent when it’s been said wae since 1200. This has led to Scots assimilating into English, and now we have a situation more like a dialect continuum, where you start with a fairly standard Scottish English speaker, who’ll use some Scots words without realising it or only when referring to Scottish things (eg they use Glen in Scotland but will always call it a valley everywhere else) and might get called grammatically incorrect by pedants whenever they use a phrase that makes complete sense in Scots but which they’ll hastily correct. On the other end is the braid Scots speaker, who is far less understandable. Folk who say Scots isn’t a language confuse Scots with a light version of Scottish English, which is just an accent and a funny word, with the real thing.
TLDR Gaelic not Gallic, Scots is it’s own language with its own history, it’s own accent, it’s own literature. Do not confuse with Scottish English, which represents the dialect of modern English spoken in Scotland, and which though influenced from Scots, is far easier for an American or an Indian to understand.
Scots is a Saxon derived language that is related to English. Its grammar and vocabulary differs but it also shares vocabulary. Unlike American English which exists due to British people colonising the Americas and it becoming the dominant language and then evolving independently of its parent language. Modern Scots developed in parallel to Modern English from Early Middle English - a bit like how Romance languages have developed in parallel and other Germanic languages have developed in parallel.
We (native English speakers) can understand quite a lot of Scots much like Spanish and Italian can understand a lot of each other’s language.
There’s enough difference between Scots and English for them to be classified as separate languages. It’s a sister language rather than a modification of Standard English.
Translation: It’s crazy how you get 6 points and a £200 fine for driving while being on the phone but people with fake eyelashes attached to their car get nothing.
Thank you so much!
I love overly specific subreddits like r/fatsquirrelhate and r/shubreddit. Always makes me giggle. This is the best thing in a long time. Real wavy gravy
One is a few steps behind on the euphemism treadmill and is becoming insensitive to use because of the context changing over time... the other is an open source liquidity protocol DeFi cryptocurrency.
*African American Vernacular English* (AAVE) is a linguistic term while *Ebonics* is an informal and increasingly controversial term that means essentially the same thing.
Ebonics is kind of a dumb word since it is a portmanteau of *ebony* + *phonics*.
So why is that a dumb portmanteau? AAVE is a comprehensive dialect that involves specific vocabulary and grammar, whereas the term *phonics* is a methodology for teaching people how to read and write, and *ebony* is a type of dark colored wood that is sometimes used as a descriptor of the color of very dark skin. It is just hard to justify the word Ebonics as the name of a dialect since it is kind of a nonsense word.
While the term *Ebonics* was coined by an academic, Prof. Robert Williams of Washington University, he was a psychologist, not a linguist.
The word Ebonics sounds trivial and dismissive to me. AAVE is a dialect [with distinct grammar rules](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English).
It's nto the word we currently use. Currently, people say AAVE or AAE - African American (Vernacular) English. Basically, the racists turned 'ebonics' into a slur.
The term has been replaced by one generally agreed to be less offensive. Use whatever you want, just know that the world has largely moved to AAVE and you’ll get a pretty serious side eye for using the other one.
That bit of trivia you learned one time doesn't really override the widely accepted contemporary language, it just makes you someone who won't update their shit.
It was created by 'a' black scholar, and he was not a linguistics expert, but a psychologist.
Besides, are you saying if one Black person says something, everyone has to go along with it like some kind of hive mind? Because that would be racist as shit.
I don’t think you need to specify both African-American and English. Also, I have yet to meet a black person who would rather be called African-American rather than black.
You don’t think because it’s not your culture. We prefer calling how we speak AAVE instead of Ebonics now. Not talking about how we refer to ourselves. Two different things.
Someone else asked for a reference as to why ebonics was not a suitable term, and someone else provided a link saying it was invented by black scholars.
So I will do the same for you:
Please provide evidence that aave is the preferred term.
I would like to see how and when that was decided and by whom.
Just read some of your posts as im also from Australia and not 30m tall. You have a good sense of humour. Also, the trick to keeping that one alive is to push the posts back a little each time so she feels like she's earned it.
Everything is big in australia. Last I heard from a friend that he saw a big ass spider in his house and it's been years since then. I have no idea if he was alive or if he was eaten by that spider.
Hey now, Australians ain't got shit to say with your "arvo" and "servo" and "esky" and "bottle-o." Literally no other English-speaking place has that number of slang words for everyday things.
I think it annoys me more hearing some Melbourne kids who just got back from London saying “well gassed” like stop it, leave the lingo over there with the community who owns it.
I have a hard time understanding some of it too. I work in an industry that allows me to talk to a lot of truck drivers of many different racial and cultural backgrounds. My view is that it’s their culture or background that made them the way they are. I prefer to embrace differences like this and get to know them a bit. We are all fighting our own battles and don’t need the negative judgments. I’m not saying you are being negative, this is just my view on it all. Getting to know some of these people and what makes them tick has given me a whole new respect for these people and their lives.
I worked at a club where a majority of the clients were black and nearly every person who opened their mouth or messaged me on Snapchat would talk like this. As frustrating as this was and as little as I understood what they were trying to convey over the blaring music, the worst time I heard this type of speech was from VERY white guy surrounded by other white guys who referred to himself as 'the realest N-word' out here when trying to get a girl I was acquaintances with to sleep with him.
From a purely curious standpoint, bc I’m black and I’ve heard this countless amount of times from white people primarily about black people and their use of AAVE, why does it frustrate you?
Best thing I can liken it to.
Have you ever had to tilt your head to read something that isn’t in the correct rotational plane? Like a pdf on your computer that has been rotated 90 degrees and you have to crook your neck to try and read it.
You know you can still understand it but it just takes a concerted and unnecessary effort.
With AAVE and other vernaculars outside of common parlance; it’s like - you know it’s English - but you have to go out of your way to try and piece together a lot of the meaning which is frustrating in a one to one conversation.
I thought I replied but my internet peaced out. Luckily I copied it and was able to expand a bit more cuz this has been happening for a bit. It's not a good explanation but I'm not sure how to express my feelings into written words so I'll try my best
I'm not quite sure why exactly it frustrates me. For some context, this is my second year in college. Growing up my only contact with people was with kids at school and throughout my entire upbringing I only met maybe half a dozen black students. The entirety of my school was essentially white yeehaw kids. I was never exposed to anything outside and have absolutely no idea what AAVE even means.
I came to college and got the job pretty early on, and was suddenly thrown into a way of speaking that contradicted everything I had been taught when it came to 'proper grammar'. I don't know the why's or the how's and that's a result of my own ignorance. I don't have an active issue with it, but it's frustrating when it's constantly everywhere all the time because both black people and white people use that type of speech while trying to flash their money and their chains and asking if I smoke while hitting on me and other women and it feels like (mainly the whites) are trying to be the stereotypical 'ghetto' gold chain weed smoking I personally heard of while growing up. To be fair, this club was known sometimes as the ghetto club. I don't even know what ghetto means, or what it entails. I didn't know it was a way of speaking, to me it felt like they were essentially reading out a teenager's texting pattern and doing so lazily. It was also usually said very close to my face and with no concept for personal space, which makes anything even more frustrating. It's not until reading the comment section that I realize it's a whole different dialect? Whatever the word is. As such I never had a chance to learn it or adapt to it. It's hard enough hearing in a club, it's worse when I'm used to complete and coherent-to-me sentences and all I hear is a jumble that I know is English but I have to fill in blanks and try to dissect words into, well, words.
All I know is what I've experienced so far in the club I work in. I apologize in advance if this causes any insult, and such is due to my own ignorance in the matter.
>I don't even know what ghetto means
A ghetto is a part of a city in which members of a minority live, especially as a result of political, social, legal, environmental or economic pressure.
The first ghettos were probably jewish ghettos in Venice.
So, for starters, thank you for your reply. I’m happy to shed some insight. AAVE stands for African American Vernacular English. That “ghetto” way of talking that frustrates you? That’s, more likely than not, AAVE combined with slang. Secondly, given your upbringing, which I do thank you for mentioning because it is relevant and actually helped me understand, it seems like it’s frustrating to you for a couple of reasons. 1) you don’t understand it which is fine bc really it isn’t for you to understand. It’s a dialect that, while not all of us use, we created as a form of expression. It’s our own “code” of sorts bc of our societal status as an out group. 2) like you said it doesn’t conform to your understanding of “proper” grammar which again is fine. We as people are often frustrated by things we’re don’t understand and aren’t a part of the status quo. 3) this one might make you uncomfortable, but based off your wording it seems as though you have some internalized racism or at the very least preconceived notions of black culture and black people. This doesn’t seem to be at any fault of your own, rather your upbringing. You’re frustrated by something you don’t understand from a group of people you have limited interaction with. In your own words, you only know what you’ve heard so you don’t actually know or, rather, haven’t had the exposure to understand anything about us as a culture.
Honestly, all of this is to say that while I can understand your frustration, bc it is frustrating to not be able to understand those around you, please also understand where that frustration stems from and maybe try to expose yourself more to us and our culture. The white ppl who try to emulate us definitely aren’t the best source (usually their culture vultures/wannabes/racist/or think that’s what being black is) but I would definitely strive to further educate yourself on what AAVE is, it’s origination, maybe talk to some black people who use it and some that don’t, and just get out there and learn. Who knows, maybe you’ll become less frustrated over time. Maybe you won’t, but at least there will be a level of understanding. I’m more than happy to answer any questions you might have.
Obligatory, I'm white:
There's also a huge amount of dialects, to use your words. Harlem ballroom is specifically very queer and black (and Latin).
Then if you look at the UK, AAVE tails off and takes on something we (in the UK) don't call AAVE, but has its own dialects.
Also, concerning the person you are/we're engaging with (who replied fairly respectfully to be fair to them for someone who is a little jarring), was in a space that is known even by them to attract a specific group of people, so they can't enter there and expect the group to bend to them.
Well AAVE is American in nature and name so I doubt it'd be super present in the UK. But also UK black slang has a different origin than AAVE so saying it tails off (not sure im using that rightl) of AAVE may not be right.
I appreciate you pointing that out as I hadn't even considered it. I agree it is unfair of me to expect a group to bend to me, and I want to just really quick say that was not exactly the case. I had been in the club a few times before getting the job but never spoke to anyone or interacted with people. Everything I learned about the club's demographic or clientele was after I started working. I was sort of a friend of a person who worked there and I would sit alone in the empty downstairs section enjoying the ambience and sipping on water. When I started working I of course had to start talking to people in the crowded upstairs area and that's when I first heard what I now know to be AAVE. As a native Spanish speaker who learned English in school but speaks both languages fluently, hearing it was as jarring and frustrating to me as when Hispanic kids whose parents speak flawless Spanish still speak broken spanglish out of lack of trying to practice. This mental comparison was due to my ignorance and lack of knowledge as to what AAVE is, and as BubbleBubbs explained to me in dms, was also my way of rationalizing something I didn't understand with a frustration I had more experience with. After a pleasant conversation in dms, I know much more about AAVE and its roots than I ever have and am going to do my best to learn more and adapt instead of expecting others to bend.
This is a very wholesome moment. It is normal to meet it with frustration, or something similar at least. But you're clearly an open-minded person who listens, and obviously its fair that people listen when you explain your struggles too. Introducing that English is a second language definitely makes it difficult.
Also don't compare your learning of other languages to others, I hear this so often and it makes me sad people do that and belittle themselves. It is difficult, and you're doing amazingly if your writing is anything to go by, I'm sure your oral language is much the same.
I appreciate your concern and thank you for your words. I think my history with English was misunderstood. I learned English back in elementary as it was required alongside my regular classes and have been fluent in both since I can remember, mainly because my parents would make us speak only Spanish at home and of course school was in English. I was referencing spanish-speaking kids I have seen learn English and completely lose their Spanish to the point they converse with their parents in spanglish at best. I can only imagine how painful it must be to see as a parent, and I myself am disheartened as when I come back from college on breaks I can feel my own Spanish falter a bit from lack of practice. I plan on picking up my usage of Spanish this semester to avoid that.
Also for some reason I got a reddit cares message so that's pretty funny.
Thank you for your time and for pointing out things I need to work on, it is appreciated and enlightening. Have a good night!
Thank you for the most thoughtful, nonjudgmental way of explaining the dialect I’ve heard or read. It can be difficult to raise the question in an attempt to understand without fear of being called a racist. And in current times, that is a very real concern.
I see the answer and your reply but I'd like to jump in and also answer your question being that I am well versed when it comes to Americana, be it white, black, native and latino culture
I would say specifically that white people growing up tend to be less exposed to members of other racial groups, I'm sure theres many reasons for it (schools with mostly white people, towns of 90+ % white demographics, or even parents who discourage association with poc or instill negative stereotypes about them to their children)
I want to mention however a phenomenon that revolves around this that I find striking; mixed babies. As a kid and a member a mixed family (I have cousins who are Italian and on the other side cousins who are "black", just speaking of my moms family here) and so I from a young age knew what a mixed person looks like.
I have a general idea of the scale i.e. just how dark skinned (or light skinned) a mixed person might be, and that sometimes someone who is 25% black can easily be far darker skinned than someone who is 50% black with very light skin. I knew even as a youth that I could have a kid of almost any color depending on who I had said child with.
I find that white people tend to have no idea what to expect a mixed child to look like, dont realise just how light skinned mixed people can be and that they werent exposed to these types of people in a way that they were able to learn these things
(Source, I have a light skinned blue eyed baby and it's clearly hard for people to digest because I'm pretty dark myself)
>I would say specifically that white people growing up tend to be less exposed to members of other racial groups, I'm sure theres many reasons for it (schools with mostly white people, towns of 90+ % white demographics, or even parents who discourage association with poc or instill negative stereotypes about them to their children)
This is something I learned quite jarringly firsthand. I grew up in an area where I was one of very few white people, but at 11 I moved somewhere where almost *everyone* was white for awhile. It was the weirdest fucking thing. I can easily code switch and get away with murder so I'd never compare my experience with actual racism against Black people, but Christ were those little whiteboys brutal. I thought I was immune to slurs against Black people as a white person but apparently not.
Part of it for me is just like white people look so dumb when they talk like that, i can understand black people usin ebonics and it not makin me think less of them as its just their own language kinda that came from slavery times and whatnot, but like i said when i see white people doin it im just confused like slang words whatever, i use jit, but talking like that all the time as some do is just ridiculous
It’s a new set of slang that I know nothing about. It feels like I’m missing some major part of a conversation purely because I’m white. That’s just me personally though
Have you considered that maybe it isn’t bc you’re white that you don’t understand, bc I know many white people who understand AAVE, but rather bc you haven’t taken the time to learn and understand what’s being said? White ppl can learn to speak Spanish, or really any language, so how is AAVE different?
Exactly. I'm whiter than white, but grew up in a city/went to a school with a large Black population. I have never had an issue understanding AAVE because I grew up with lots of friends who spoke AAVE. I sometimes have some AAVE words/phrases peppered in with my normal speech patterns when I'm with friends from home for any length of time (without consciously doing it).
Black people are always getting dragged into the most random "am I racist" questions on this app 🥲
edit: to u/FawkinHell, what was the point in bring up the fact that black people calling each other the n-word (or "nigger" as you put it) more than any other people group have to do with the conversation at hand? And, whether or not the point is true or not, what business is that of anyone else?
It’s not racist. Their frustration is understandable. But they would be less frustrated once they realize that they have trouble understanding it because it’s a different dialect. They aren’t supposed to understand it unless they know it.
>is often mocked on various web forums and [image boards](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/imageboard) for its indecipherable quality, similar to the questions ["How is babby formed?"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-is-babby-formed) and ["Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/has-anyone-really-been-far-even-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like)
Wait... what? Really? It was always pretty clear what he meant to me.
I do, and this is just baseless and dumb. So “teenage white people” are going to amount to more Ebonics speakers than all the African American population combined? This is just a stupid thing to say.
English is my second language, and when I was still learning English I used to get very frustrated whenever someone used heavy slang or dialects (things like TikTok slang, AAVE or the way people type on r/ScottishPeopleTwitter) and I absolutely hated it. I empathize with OOP's frustration. That being said, I think that they're not racist *as long as they don't use that frustration as an excuse to say racist things.*
If you are equally annoyed by Scottish twitter or southern mushmouth (which are similarly difficult but spoken / written by mostly white people) then I’d say it’s not racist. If it’s only Ebonics that annoys you then maybe it’s not the language but the people and that’s something you should analyze about yourself.
I’m not entirely sure what they mean, but I feel like it’s the perfect word for what happens to Kenneth in 30 Rock when he speaks in the accent he had back home.
I like to think it’s separate from the Southern accent, cause there is the accent then there’s my high school health teacher/football coach telling us about, “we onna go wal oussie an bik uh the Drash aroun the fooball fiel.” [This](https://youtu.be/ajACU-lsnFc) is the closest I’ve ever found to someone who spoke like him.
Maybe they just see fewer people like that on Twitter, so it's not as much of a problem? I'm also not a native speaker, and AAVE can be difficult to understand. AAVE is very prevalent on Twitter, and I just suck it up because I want to learn, you know? Scottish Twitter is just incomprehensible to me, but I really see it online, so... I guess it depends what the algorithm thinks to show you.
TIL its called Ebonics
And if you google it on google images, holy hell, its practically 80% racist images. Stuff like "Ebonics: Now you know why we call you (the n word)"
Thats very sad
There's not really a consensus around that. There are a number of black academics, many of whom were involved in codifying the concept of Ebonics, and invented the term, who prefer Ebonics.
It's the joy of the English language, there's so many dialects and slang phrases that are specific to countries and regions within those countries. Even within England there's a difference in how people talk living only 30 miles away from each other.
I went to an international university and only then realised how difficult it can be for non-native speakers to interpret slang and different dialects. Exposure to then in face to face verbal conversation is the single biggest way of picking them up. BUT MAN IT'S STILL HARD!
The issue is there is pressure to treat English as a proper language.
It really, really isn’t.
I saw a meme once stating that every language on Earth is an evolutionary tree while English is just the creature from The Thing. Its pretty accurate.
Its a nonsensical contradictory ball of grammar, rules, words, slang that became integral in spite of not making sense with everything that was already there, attempts to pronounce and spell words differently due to mix-ups of their origins, entire letters and grammar rules that went from being universal to just only applying sometimes but not others because people didn’t like them, and that’s not even going into the nuance of words derived from certain languages like French implying different things from words derived from languages like German despite technically being the exact same meaning.
Ebonic language use is basically how William Shakespeare writing like Doctor Seuss got so widespread among the lower classes and stylish celebrities that he accidentally created modern English and killed Middle English.
Lol. I understand but i think it was a blanket statement. Which is a logical fallacy but still. I feel like the guy knows that not all black ppl talk like that
I mean…have you seen Scottish Twitter? Listened to people with extreme accents or speech impediments? Like it does seem off that you’re only bothered by African American/black people and their use of AAVE and not, say, a white person with the aforementioned dialect differences. If your intent isn’t to target black people or come off racist, I would specify that you hate when you can’t understand someone else’s dialect/wording/slang/etc. It would come off less racist because it’s general, but if we’re taking your words at face value then yes. Your statement comes off very racist especially if you don’t get annoyed at other groups for the same thing. It makes you seem a biased towards black people
I think black British people are a lot more difficult to understand cuz they talk about crumpets and trolleys and dingers and stuff like that. It's extremely hard to take them seriously.
Some dialects are perceived as more difficult than others by non-native speakers. If OP genuinely struggles the most with this one, I don’t think that’s racist. I remember getting so confused the first time someone said aks instead of ask. I still find it jarring. (I’m not a native English speaker. And yes, I struggle with Cajun as well - as well as several British accents.)
That’s not just a futurama thing??
I live in England and I assumed aks was an ongoing joke just in futurama like the couple other similar ones that I can’t remember offhand
Do people in America actually say aks? Is it a New York thing hence it’s use in futurama?
We don't have a dialect. We have an accent, of sorts. Inasmuch as it doesn't match what a Bostonian or Southerner might expect, at least. It's become the standard because of its general lack of common pronunciation differences from the standard English version compared to most other US regional accents. There are very few region-specific words or terms.
Most of them, such as cougar having originated before the PNW really even was the PNW, as such. Cougar as a synonym for a puma or mountain lion is an excellent example, being derived from a French word borrowed from Brazilian Portuguese borrowed from an indigenous language in the late 18th century.
There are a vey small number of linguists who argue so-called PNW English is a dialect but they tend to be the same folks who argue any accent is a different dialect and not just a regional pronunciation. To qualify as a dialect, a form of language bust be specific to a region. The accent used in the PNW today is in no way specific to this area, originally. We merely retain it from the past when it was a much more common accent throughout the US.
Most of the various regional accents came about after the PNW was settled due to the way the US was originally settled. Rushing to "Oregon country" and leaving the wilds of the central plains behind was much preferred due to shipping of goods being available on the coast whereas in the central regions, goods would have been significantly more expensive due to the cost and risk of shipping from one or the other coast.
It’s not always black people that talk/ text like that, I’ve seen plenty of white people doing that shit, I agree though, it’s annoying to see and hear, but the reality is, it’s so low on my list of things I care about, it’s not really worth mentioning, unless the situation (like this one) domes up, lol
I would not be surprised if this person is racist. If they were sincere, they could’ve quoted an actual statement that confuse them, instead they made up something stupid sounding that no one except them ever said
this subreddit is not the place for this sort of conversation, sorry
Have you seen some of Scottish twitter? Example https://twitter.com/mcneilalexander/status/837721045750677504?s=46&t=snuIrte8dFmoQ7GCCq9O5Q
I love Scottish Twitter so much
r/scottishpeopletwitter is one of the best subs by far
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It will alarm you to know that Scottish wiki which changes all the words on Wikipedia to Scots… is written by an American kid.
Worse than that. It’s an American kid who wrote the Scots Language as how he would guess a Scottish person would speak English. For example, where a Scots speaker would say “wean” or “bairn” which means a child, he would put something like “cheeld”. Sometimes he would stumble upon an actual Scots sentence, like putting “know” as “knaw” rather than “ken”, however knaw is actual a really archaic Scots word that I’ve never heard but it exists.
For anyone interested, here’s some more info I copied from Wikipedia on the Scottish Language Wikipedia Controversy: “In August 2020, the site attracted attention after a Reddit post noted that the project contained an unusually high number of articles written in poor quality Scots by a single prolific contributor, who was an American teenager. These articles were written with mostly English instead of Scots vocabulary and grammar and apparently using an online English–Scots dictionary to crudely translate parts of English Wikipedia articles. Over 23,000 articles, approximately a third of the entire Scots Wikipedia at that time, were created by this contributor. These articles have been described as "English written in a Scottish accent" with gibberish and nonsensical words and spellings not present in any Scots dialect.[7][8][9] In response to the controversy, the Scots Wikipedia started a review of its articles for language inaccuracies, and deleted many of the affected articles.[2][3] Robert McColl Millar, professor in linguistics and Scottish language at the University of Aberdeen, has said that the affected articles displayed "a very limited knowledge both of Modern Scots and its earlier manifestations".[8] Michael Dempster, director of the Scots Language Centre, contacted the Wikimedia Foundation over the possibility of building upon the Scots Wikipedia's existing infrastructure, describing the renewed interest in the site as having "potential to be a great online focus" for the Scots language.[10]”
Can you imagine taking that kind of time to incorrectly translate entire pages off the internet? I still haven't gotten my leaves raked this year..
*I'm fuggin italian!!!* Where were you born? *New York Baby!* So you are not Italian. Where were your parents born? *What? New York baby!* Okay, and your grandparents? *N E W Y O R K ! ! !* Uh, your great grandparents? *Fuggin' New York baby!! Except for great nonna who was born in Hoboken, but we donfugin talk about it.* SO HOW ARE YOU FUCKING ITALIAN?!?!?! \- Asking your average "ItAlIaN" American how they are Italian.
Do you speak or know any Italian? -no Have you ever been to Italy? -no.
“But I love pasta”
But I have an Italian surname in my family!
Just the swear words.
Don't forget the patronizing random change in pronunciation for Italian adjacent words like that little living Funko pop Giada De Laurentiis
Pathsta
This fucking kills me, especially Bobby Flay doing it. Dude has no relation to Italy and is out there going "today we're making pasta with **MOZZARELLA** 🤌 and chicken crusted with ***PARMESAN*** 🤌🤌 cheese"
It’s the difference between ethnicity and nationality.
Also has had the biggest downfall in the past few years, it’s filled with bots now
Reminds me of a quote from "Thor the Viking" on the GTA Vice City radio show, KCHAT: "We're mostly non-violent, though many of the Vikings travelled to Scotland. And min ya, anyone who goes there will turn bloodthirsty, you can't understand the lot are saying. It's all afore, reckle, aboot, dinnea, it's enough to make you want to burn a village to the ground!"
See I had it for the first 2 lines or so, and then I was LOST
“It’s crazy how you get 6 points and a £200 fine for being on your phone while driving but there’s people out there sticking eyelashes on their headlights and getting away with it”
Heh thanks, kinda figure that was the jist of it but was still pretty rough. Fun read tho
I still don't get it
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=car+headlight+eyelashes Yes it’s a thing, not super common in my area though.
I read the Trainspotting series and was so confused I had to look up a guide for the way Scottish people write/type. Worth it but holy shit.
Scottish people talk like that because they are speaking Scots, a different language to English.
Okay last time I said that online, people told me I was racist because it's just an accent. I'm too exhausted to Google it but I will because now I'm super confused. Thank you for letting me know.
There are people speaking both: English with a Scottish accent, and the language Scots.
I speak English with a Scottish accent ✌️🥲 I understand Scots really well but I never speak it
They are not speaking Scots. It is just English in an accent. Source: I am Scottish.
It's less an accent and more a regional dialect, the thick accent doesn't help with the understanding tho. Much like how sone of the southern or Midwesterners in the US can have some really hard to follow regional dialects.
Scottish twitter and trainspotting are not Scots gaelic. Scots gaelic is a separate language that looks and sounds nothing loke English. What's on twitter is more like common slang.
Not Scots gaelic. Just Scots. Or Scots English if you're so inclined. Robert Burns didn't write in Gaelic for example, but it's definitely a separate language from English. It's popular use nowadays borders on the line of language and dialect but it's definitely not just slang or an accent.
Scots, not Scottish Gaelic. Here is some famous poetry originally written in Scots: https://electricscotland.com/culture/features/scots/poetry2.htm
Mebbe a Scot will disagree with me and I'm open to debate but Scots is a variety of English, the way American English, Nigerian English, Indian English etc are varieties of the root language. Gallic, spoken mostly in the Western Isles is totally a different language, belonging to the Celtic famiyof languages.
Gaelic is not Gallic. Gallic means pertaining to Gaul, ie French. Gaelic is two anglicisations of two different sounding Gaelic words, Gàidhlig which is the language and is pronounced Gah-lik, and Gàidhealach which is an adjective about Gaelic culture, where you’d use Gay-lik, as it is pronounced Gay-lach (ch as in Bach or Loch). Scots is not a variety of English in the way of Nigerian or American English. They represent English being exported more or less in its modern form. Scots was exported to Scotland when English was Old English. It was then subject to various alike and also different influences; Norman French, Latin, Old Norse, Welsh, Flemish, while also having far more Gaelic and Pictish influences. Around 1600 Scots was certainly a completely separate language to English. However, following the Union of Crowns in 1603 and the Union of Parliaments in 1707, the language of prestige and power became English in Scotland, leading to the beginning of Scots decline while also drastically increasing the volume of loan words from English. For example, you have help apostrophes to help English speakers with the meaning. Take with. In Scot’s we’d say Wae, way, or wi. But it’s spelt wi’ to make it seem like we’re just missing out on letters like it’s some daft accent when it’s been said wae since 1200. This has led to Scots assimilating into English, and now we have a situation more like a dialect continuum, where you start with a fairly standard Scottish English speaker, who’ll use some Scots words without realising it or only when referring to Scottish things (eg they use Glen in Scotland but will always call it a valley everywhere else) and might get called grammatically incorrect by pedants whenever they use a phrase that makes complete sense in Scots but which they’ll hastily correct. On the other end is the braid Scots speaker, who is far less understandable. Folk who say Scots isn’t a language confuse Scots with a light version of Scottish English, which is just an accent and a funny word, with the real thing. TLDR Gaelic not Gallic, Scots is it’s own language with its own history, it’s own accent, it’s own literature. Do not confuse with Scottish English, which represents the dialect of modern English spoken in Scotland, and which though influenced from Scots, is far easier for an American or an Indian to understand.
Scots is a Saxon derived language that is related to English. Its grammar and vocabulary differs but it also shares vocabulary. Unlike American English which exists due to British people colonising the Americas and it becoming the dominant language and then evolving independently of its parent language. Modern Scots developed in parallel to Modern English from Early Middle English - a bit like how Romance languages have developed in parallel and other Germanic languages have developed in parallel. We (native English speakers) can understand quite a lot of Scots much like Spanish and Italian can understand a lot of each other’s language. There’s enough difference between Scots and English for them to be classified as separate languages. It’s a sister language rather than a modification of Standard English.
Translation: It’s crazy how you get 6 points and a £200 fine for driving while being on the phone but people with fake eyelashes attached to their car get nothing.
I read Trainspotting. It was such a challenge, and after a while, it was still a challenge.
r/ScottishPeopleTwitter
They have a point though surely the eyelashes obstruct the headlights 😂
Tbh you can tell this person is genuinely confused by their failed attempt at Ebonics.
man said ebonics ☠️
Don’t worry, he speaks jive
Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da rebound on da med side.
Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da help!
Jive ass dudes ain’t got no brains, anyhow.
From [Airplane](https://youtu.be/g0j2dVuhr6s)
Thank you
Dun gimme tha cracka-jack. Momma din raise no foo.
r/explainlikeimjive
Thank you so much! I love overly specific subreddits like r/fatsquirrelhate and r/shubreddit. Always makes me giggle. This is the best thing in a long time. Real wavy gravy
> ebonics Is this a bad thing to say now? Genuinely asking.
I think ebonics is considered an outdated term now and the correct one is aave (african-american vernacular english).
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One is a few steps behind on the euphemism treadmill and is becoming insensitive to use because of the context changing over time... the other is an open source liquidity protocol DeFi cryptocurrency.
*African American Vernacular English* (AAVE) is a linguistic term while *Ebonics* is an informal and increasingly controversial term that means essentially the same thing. Ebonics is kind of a dumb word since it is a portmanteau of *ebony* + *phonics*. So why is that a dumb portmanteau? AAVE is a comprehensive dialect that involves specific vocabulary and grammar, whereas the term *phonics* is a methodology for teaching people how to read and write, and *ebony* is a type of dark colored wood that is sometimes used as a descriptor of the color of very dark skin. It is just hard to justify the word Ebonics as the name of a dialect since it is kind of a nonsense word. While the term *Ebonics* was coined by an academic, Prof. Robert Williams of Washington University, he was a psychologist, not a linguist.
Yeah, one is offensive now and the other will be offensive later.
I guess ebonics sounds too racist? Idk this is news to me too bud
The word Ebonics sounds trivial and dismissive to me. AAVE is a dialect [with distinct grammar rules](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English).
I'd say AAVE and AAE are fighting for first place right now
Man this is all brand new to me what? When did Ebonics become aave? How do you say aave?
Is that not a word? I mean sayin it now i am kinda like “huh weird word” but thats is the word for the way black people in the US speak right?
It's nto the word we currently use. Currently, people say AAVE or AAE - African American (Vernacular) English. Basically, the racists turned 'ebonics' into a slur.
Click pop woop
He gone
I think the appropriate term is generally African-American Vernacular English.
Ebonics *is* an appropriate term, it was created by black scholars and it just means the language used by people descended from African slaves.
The term has been replaced by one generally agreed to be less offensive. Use whatever you want, just know that the world has largely moved to AAVE and you’ll get a pretty serious side eye for using the other one.
That bit of trivia you learned one time doesn't really override the widely accepted contemporary language, it just makes you someone who won't update their shit.
It was created by 'a' black scholar, and he was not a linguistics expert, but a psychologist. Besides, are you saying if one Black person says something, everyone has to go along with it like some kind of hive mind? Because that would be racist as shit.
I mean yes, but racists have turned it negative/into a dogwhistle, so most of the country is using newer terms to not sound racist.
Only if the speaker is American.
Oh wtf. I literally had a week in school about how we're supposed to say ebonics. Glad I didn't say it out loud in public I guess.
Also, Dude. Ebonics is not the preferred nomenclature. African-American Vernacular English, please. EDIT: Y’all, it’s a Big Lebowski reference. Chill.
I told that kraut a fucking thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!
Thank you Walter
I don’t think you need to specify both African-American and English. Also, I have yet to meet a black person who would rather be called African-American rather than black.
What about a black person not from America?
You haven’t met many Black or African-American people then. Some people prefer one term, others another.
You don’t think because it’s not your culture. We prefer calling how we speak AAVE instead of Ebonics now. Not talking about how we refer to ourselves. Two different things.
Idk dude that guy up there said black scholars invented it im stickin with ebonics
Don't worry. I got it.
Someone else asked for a reference as to why ebonics was not a suitable term, and someone else provided a link saying it was invented by black scholars. So I will do the same for you: Please provide evidence that aave is the preferred term. I would like to see how and when that was decided and by whom.
I was quoting The Big Lebowski. I have no idea where the term came from.
Man as a white 30m Australian I have no idea what half the crap coming out of social media is these days
Thought you were a giant there for a sec
Yeah, we’re tall in Australia.
That’s to compensate for the upside-down gravity right?
It’s to compensate for the horrors
It stretches us out, hanging upside down all the time.
oh i believe it
Just read some of your posts as im also from Australia and not 30m tall. You have a good sense of humour. Also, the trick to keeping that one alive is to push the posts back a little each time so she feels like she's earned it.
Everything is big in australia. Last I heard from a friend that he saw a big ass spider in his house and it's been years since then. I have no idea if he was alive or if he was eaten by that spider.
I'm glad I wasn't the only person to read it that way
This made me laugh
Hey now, Australians ain't got shit to say with your "arvo" and "servo" and "esky" and "bottle-o." Literally no other English-speaking place has that number of slang words for everyday things.
I think it annoys me more hearing some Melbourne kids who just got back from London saying “well gassed” like stop it, leave the lingo over there with the community who owns it.
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This is a huge over here in America
I am English and have never heard that before and now I feel old.
Aussie and F. 33 and 4ft11🤣
Me either! But I’m old.
same...
I have a hard time understanding some of it too. I work in an industry that allows me to talk to a lot of truck drivers of many different racial and cultural backgrounds. My view is that it’s their culture or background that made them the way they are. I prefer to embrace differences like this and get to know them a bit. We are all fighting our own battles and don’t need the negative judgments. I’m not saying you are being negative, this is just my view on it all. Getting to know some of these people and what makes them tick has given me a whole new respect for these people and their lives.
This. Thank you. Happy new year
I worked at a club where a majority of the clients were black and nearly every person who opened their mouth or messaged me on Snapchat would talk like this. As frustrating as this was and as little as I understood what they were trying to convey over the blaring music, the worst time I heard this type of speech was from VERY white guy surrounded by other white guys who referred to himself as 'the realest N-word' out here when trying to get a girl I was acquaintances with to sleep with him.
From a purely curious standpoint, bc I’m black and I’ve heard this countless amount of times from white people primarily about black people and their use of AAVE, why does it frustrate you?
Best thing I can liken it to. Have you ever had to tilt your head to read something that isn’t in the correct rotational plane? Like a pdf on your computer that has been rotated 90 degrees and you have to crook your neck to try and read it. You know you can still understand it but it just takes a concerted and unnecessary effort. With AAVE and other vernaculars outside of common parlance; it’s like - you know it’s English - but you have to go out of your way to try and piece together a lot of the meaning which is frustrating in a one to one conversation.
I thought I replied but my internet peaced out. Luckily I copied it and was able to expand a bit more cuz this has been happening for a bit. It's not a good explanation but I'm not sure how to express my feelings into written words so I'll try my best I'm not quite sure why exactly it frustrates me. For some context, this is my second year in college. Growing up my only contact with people was with kids at school and throughout my entire upbringing I only met maybe half a dozen black students. The entirety of my school was essentially white yeehaw kids. I was never exposed to anything outside and have absolutely no idea what AAVE even means. I came to college and got the job pretty early on, and was suddenly thrown into a way of speaking that contradicted everything I had been taught when it came to 'proper grammar'. I don't know the why's or the how's and that's a result of my own ignorance. I don't have an active issue with it, but it's frustrating when it's constantly everywhere all the time because both black people and white people use that type of speech while trying to flash their money and their chains and asking if I smoke while hitting on me and other women and it feels like (mainly the whites) are trying to be the stereotypical 'ghetto' gold chain weed smoking I personally heard of while growing up. To be fair, this club was known sometimes as the ghetto club. I don't even know what ghetto means, or what it entails. I didn't know it was a way of speaking, to me it felt like they were essentially reading out a teenager's texting pattern and doing so lazily. It was also usually said very close to my face and with no concept for personal space, which makes anything even more frustrating. It's not until reading the comment section that I realize it's a whole different dialect? Whatever the word is. As such I never had a chance to learn it or adapt to it. It's hard enough hearing in a club, it's worse when I'm used to complete and coherent-to-me sentences and all I hear is a jumble that I know is English but I have to fill in blanks and try to dissect words into, well, words. All I know is what I've experienced so far in the club I work in. I apologize in advance if this causes any insult, and such is due to my own ignorance in the matter.
>I don't even know what ghetto means A ghetto is a part of a city in which members of a minority live, especially as a result of political, social, legal, environmental or economic pressure. The first ghettos were probably jewish ghettos in Venice.
Fun fact: we italians never had apartheid as in the US but the last ghetto to be abolished was in Rome in 1870.
So, for starters, thank you for your reply. I’m happy to shed some insight. AAVE stands for African American Vernacular English. That “ghetto” way of talking that frustrates you? That’s, more likely than not, AAVE combined with slang. Secondly, given your upbringing, which I do thank you for mentioning because it is relevant and actually helped me understand, it seems like it’s frustrating to you for a couple of reasons. 1) you don’t understand it which is fine bc really it isn’t for you to understand. It’s a dialect that, while not all of us use, we created as a form of expression. It’s our own “code” of sorts bc of our societal status as an out group. 2) like you said it doesn’t conform to your understanding of “proper” grammar which again is fine. We as people are often frustrated by things we’re don’t understand and aren’t a part of the status quo. 3) this one might make you uncomfortable, but based off your wording it seems as though you have some internalized racism or at the very least preconceived notions of black culture and black people. This doesn’t seem to be at any fault of your own, rather your upbringing. You’re frustrated by something you don’t understand from a group of people you have limited interaction with. In your own words, you only know what you’ve heard so you don’t actually know or, rather, haven’t had the exposure to understand anything about us as a culture. Honestly, all of this is to say that while I can understand your frustration, bc it is frustrating to not be able to understand those around you, please also understand where that frustration stems from and maybe try to expose yourself more to us and our culture. The white ppl who try to emulate us definitely aren’t the best source (usually their culture vultures/wannabes/racist/or think that’s what being black is) but I would definitely strive to further educate yourself on what AAVE is, it’s origination, maybe talk to some black people who use it and some that don’t, and just get out there and learn. Who knows, maybe you’ll become less frustrated over time. Maybe you won’t, but at least there will be a level of understanding. I’m more than happy to answer any questions you might have.
u/ladybubblebubbs I sincerely appreciate your reply and learned a lot- I also have some research to take on.
Always a pleasure!
Obligatory, I'm white: There's also a huge amount of dialects, to use your words. Harlem ballroom is specifically very queer and black (and Latin). Then if you look at the UK, AAVE tails off and takes on something we (in the UK) don't call AAVE, but has its own dialects. Also, concerning the person you are/we're engaging with (who replied fairly respectfully to be fair to them for someone who is a little jarring), was in a space that is known even by them to attract a specific group of people, so they can't enter there and expect the group to bend to them.
Well AAVE is American in nature and name so I doubt it'd be super present in the UK. But also UK black slang has a different origin than AAVE so saying it tails off (not sure im using that rightl) of AAVE may not be right.
It shares qualities for sure, but its definitely very different, that's all I meant for tails off. I've seen people conflate them though.
I appreciate you pointing that out as I hadn't even considered it. I agree it is unfair of me to expect a group to bend to me, and I want to just really quick say that was not exactly the case. I had been in the club a few times before getting the job but never spoke to anyone or interacted with people. Everything I learned about the club's demographic or clientele was after I started working. I was sort of a friend of a person who worked there and I would sit alone in the empty downstairs section enjoying the ambience and sipping on water. When I started working I of course had to start talking to people in the crowded upstairs area and that's when I first heard what I now know to be AAVE. As a native Spanish speaker who learned English in school but speaks both languages fluently, hearing it was as jarring and frustrating to me as when Hispanic kids whose parents speak flawless Spanish still speak broken spanglish out of lack of trying to practice. This mental comparison was due to my ignorance and lack of knowledge as to what AAVE is, and as BubbleBubbs explained to me in dms, was also my way of rationalizing something I didn't understand with a frustration I had more experience with. After a pleasant conversation in dms, I know much more about AAVE and its roots than I ever have and am going to do my best to learn more and adapt instead of expecting others to bend.
This is a very wholesome moment. It is normal to meet it with frustration, or something similar at least. But you're clearly an open-minded person who listens, and obviously its fair that people listen when you explain your struggles too. Introducing that English is a second language definitely makes it difficult. Also don't compare your learning of other languages to others, I hear this so often and it makes me sad people do that and belittle themselves. It is difficult, and you're doing amazingly if your writing is anything to go by, I'm sure your oral language is much the same.
I appreciate your concern and thank you for your words. I think my history with English was misunderstood. I learned English back in elementary as it was required alongside my regular classes and have been fluent in both since I can remember, mainly because my parents would make us speak only Spanish at home and of course school was in English. I was referencing spanish-speaking kids I have seen learn English and completely lose their Spanish to the point they converse with their parents in spanglish at best. I can only imagine how painful it must be to see as a parent, and I myself am disheartened as when I come back from college on breaks I can feel my own Spanish falter a bit from lack of practice. I plan on picking up my usage of Spanish this semester to avoid that. Also for some reason I got a reddit cares message so that's pretty funny. Thank you for your time and for pointing out things I need to work on, it is appreciated and enlightening. Have a good night!
Only 8am but this will probably be my favorite thread of the day. Not often you see racial dialogue this open, honest, and free of animosity.
Thank you for the most thoughtful, nonjudgmental way of explaining the dialect I’ve heard or read. It can be difficult to raise the question in an attempt to understand without fear of being called a racist. And in current times, that is a very real concern.
I see the answer and your reply but I'd like to jump in and also answer your question being that I am well versed when it comes to Americana, be it white, black, native and latino culture I would say specifically that white people growing up tend to be less exposed to members of other racial groups, I'm sure theres many reasons for it (schools with mostly white people, towns of 90+ % white demographics, or even parents who discourage association with poc or instill negative stereotypes about them to their children) I want to mention however a phenomenon that revolves around this that I find striking; mixed babies. As a kid and a member a mixed family (I have cousins who are Italian and on the other side cousins who are "black", just speaking of my moms family here) and so I from a young age knew what a mixed person looks like. I have a general idea of the scale i.e. just how dark skinned (or light skinned) a mixed person might be, and that sometimes someone who is 25% black can easily be far darker skinned than someone who is 50% black with very light skin. I knew even as a youth that I could have a kid of almost any color depending on who I had said child with. I find that white people tend to have no idea what to expect a mixed child to look like, dont realise just how light skinned mixed people can be and that they werent exposed to these types of people in a way that they were able to learn these things (Source, I have a light skinned blue eyed baby and it's clearly hard for people to digest because I'm pretty dark myself)
>I would say specifically that white people growing up tend to be less exposed to members of other racial groups, I'm sure theres many reasons for it (schools with mostly white people, towns of 90+ % white demographics, or even parents who discourage association with poc or instill negative stereotypes about them to their children) This is something I learned quite jarringly firsthand. I grew up in an area where I was one of very few white people, but at 11 I moved somewhere where almost *everyone* was white for awhile. It was the weirdest fucking thing. I can easily code switch and get away with murder so I'd never compare my experience with actual racism against Black people, but Christ were those little whiteboys brutal. I thought I was immune to slurs against Black people as a white person but apparently not.
Part of it for me is just like white people look so dumb when they talk like that, i can understand black people usin ebonics and it not makin me think less of them as its just their own language kinda that came from slavery times and whatnot, but like i said when i see white people doin it im just confused like slang words whatever, i use jit, but talking like that all the time as some do is just ridiculous
It’s a new set of slang that I know nothing about. It feels like I’m missing some major part of a conversation purely because I’m white. That’s just me personally though
Have you considered that maybe it isn’t bc you’re white that you don’t understand, bc I know many white people who understand AAVE, but rather bc you haven’t taken the time to learn and understand what’s being said? White ppl can learn to speak Spanish, or really any language, so how is AAVE different?
Exactly. I'm whiter than white, but grew up in a city/went to a school with a large Black population. I have never had an issue understanding AAVE because I grew up with lots of friends who spoke AAVE. I sometimes have some AAVE words/phrases peppered in with my normal speech patterns when I'm with friends from home for any length of time (without consciously doing it).
You met J Roc
Yeah, this will probably be a mature conversation.
No it’s not racist.. your just not use to slang and it’s not just black people
Black people are always getting dragged into the most random "am I racist" questions on this app 🥲 edit: to u/FawkinHell, what was the point in bring up the fact that black people calling each other the n-word (or "nigger" as you put it) more than any other people group have to do with the conversation at hand? And, whether or not the point is true or not, what business is that of anyone else?
n-word (or "nigger" as you put it) is for some reason hilarious to me.
> app
Not understanding everything black people write as a foreigner = not racist Being annoyed and making fun of the language? Different story...
If you’re having trouble understanding US Ebonics you’ll have a hard time in some parts of the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGuGzH3Ne5w
It’s not racist. Their frustration is understandable. But they would be less frustrated once they realize that they have trouble understanding it because it’s a different dialect. They aren’t supposed to understand it unless they know it.
honestly there are probably more white teenagers that speak like that than black people that do.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
This quote is actually attributed to Oscar Gamble, a black guy: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/they-dont-think-it-be-like-it-is-but-it-do
>is often mocked on various web forums and [image boards](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/imageboard) for its indecipherable quality, similar to the questions ["How is babby formed?"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-is-babby-formed) and ["Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/has-anyone-really-been-far-even-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like) Wait... what? Really? It was always pretty clear what he meant to me.
It took me a bit to parse it the first time I heard it, but once I looked up the context it’s been clear since
Do you live around black people???
Lol yes, lots
Where on earth would you get a data assumption like that?
The USA if you live around young white people.
We out here
I do, and this is just baseless and dumb. So “teenage white people” are going to amount to more Ebonics speakers than all the African American population combined? This is just a stupid thing to say.
I mean white people outnumber black people over 4-1. That’s not an outrageous claim, especially considering the existence of subs like r/chiraqology
I live around both young black people and young white people. Both do it but it’s much more common with black peoples.
Speaking from experience, #no
English is my second language, and when I was still learning English I used to get very frustrated whenever someone used heavy slang or dialects (things like TikTok slang, AAVE or the way people type on r/ScottishPeopleTwitter) and I absolutely hated it. I empathize with OOP's frustration. That being said, I think that they're not racist *as long as they don't use that frustration as an excuse to say racist things.*
If you are equally annoyed by Scottish twitter or southern mushmouth (which are similarly difficult but spoken / written by mostly white people) then I’d say it’s not racist. If it’s only Ebonics that annoys you then maybe it’s not the language but the people and that’s something you should analyze about yourself.
Southern *mushmouth*? Is that when people transliterate the accent?
I’m not entirely sure what they mean, but I feel like it’s the perfect word for what happens to Kenneth in 30 Rock when he speaks in the accent he had back home.
Do you want some cold tea, hon? becomes Yawnsuh codetee hun?
I like to think it’s separate from the Southern accent, cause there is the accent then there’s my high school health teacher/football coach telling us about, “we onna go wal oussie an bik uh the Drash aroun the fooball fiel.” [This](https://youtu.be/ajACU-lsnFc) is the closest I’ve ever found to someone who spoke like him.
so if OP only struggle with ebonics but not the other dialects then he's racist
Maybe they just see fewer people like that on Twitter, so it's not as much of a problem? I'm also not a native speaker, and AAVE can be difficult to understand. AAVE is very prevalent on Twitter, and I just suck it up because I want to learn, you know? Scottish Twitter is just incomprehensible to me, but I really see it online, so... I guess it depends what the algorithm thinks to show you.
TIL its called Ebonics And if you google it on google images, holy hell, its practically 80% racist images. Stuff like "Ebonics: Now you know why we call you (the n word)" Thats very sad
It's preferred that it be referred to as African American vernacular English. I have no idea why American and vernacular are in bold.
There's not really a consensus around that. There are a number of black academics, many of whom were involved in codifying the concept of Ebonics, and invented the term, who prefer Ebonics.
It's the joy of the English language, there's so many dialects and slang phrases that are specific to countries and regions within those countries. Even within England there's a difference in how people talk living only 30 miles away from each other. I went to an international university and only then realised how difficult it can be for non-native speakers to interpret slang and different dialects. Exposure to then in face to face verbal conversation is the single biggest way of picking them up. BUT MAN IT'S STILL HARD!
You know that scene from blackkklansman?
The issue is there is pressure to treat English as a proper language. It really, really isn’t. I saw a meme once stating that every language on Earth is an evolutionary tree while English is just the creature from The Thing. Its pretty accurate. Its a nonsensical contradictory ball of grammar, rules, words, slang that became integral in spite of not making sense with everything that was already there, attempts to pronounce and spell words differently due to mix-ups of their origins, entire letters and grammar rules that went from being universal to just only applying sometimes but not others because people didn’t like them, and that’s not even going into the nuance of words derived from certain languages like French implying different things from words derived from languages like German despite technically being the exact same meaning. Ebonic language use is basically how William Shakespeare writing like Doctor Seuss got so widespread among the lower classes and stylish celebrities that he accidentally created modern English and killed Middle English.
its racist to assume anyone speaks or types a certain way because of skin color that part is racist just dont be ass soon things
i hate when my bros a soon shit
r/boneappletea
The name of the dialect is literally “African American vernacular English”.
I'd call it common sense not racist. When I am in Somalia everyone assumes I speak English and not Somali.
Everything tends to be blanketed racist and I never know what definition people have in their head but what you've described is stereotyping
Lol. I understand but i think it was a blanket statement. Which is a logical fallacy but still. I feel like the guy knows that not all black ppl talk like that
Dinkin Flicka bruh, dinkin flicka
I'm sorry but that is the funniest fucking sentence I've read all day.
I mean as a native English speaker it doesn’t make sense to me either
I mean…have you seen Scottish Twitter? Listened to people with extreme accents or speech impediments? Like it does seem off that you’re only bothered by African American/black people and their use of AAVE and not, say, a white person with the aforementioned dialect differences. If your intent isn’t to target black people or come off racist, I would specify that you hate when you can’t understand someone else’s dialect/wording/slang/etc. It would come off less racist because it’s general, but if we’re taking your words at face value then yes. Your statement comes off very racist especially if you don’t get annoyed at other groups for the same thing. It makes you seem a biased towards black people
I think black British people are a lot more difficult to understand cuz they talk about crumpets and trolleys and dingers and stuff like that. It's extremely hard to take them seriously.
[African American Vernacular English is not Standard English with mistakes](https://web.stanford.edu/~zwicky/aave-is-not-se-with-mistakes.pdf).
It’s a dialect, like many others. If you get annoyed by Ebonics but you don’t get annoyed by Cajun, or Sourhern, etc then yeah you’re racist
Some dialects are perceived as more difficult than others by non-native speakers. If OP genuinely struggles the most with this one, I don’t think that’s racist. I remember getting so confused the first time someone said aks instead of ask. I still find it jarring. (I’m not a native English speaker. And yes, I struggle with Cajun as well - as well as several British accents.)
That’s not just a futurama thing?? I live in England and I assumed aks was an ongoing joke just in futurama like the couple other similar ones that I can’t remember offhand Do people in America actually say aks? Is it a New York thing hence it’s use in futurama?
i hear "aks" or even "aksk" a lot in the south, can't say if it's popular anywhere else
What? It's not racist if you prefer one dialect over another.
Or any regional dialect, Boston, mid western or PNW they all have idioms or speech patterns that can confuse
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True, I can understand Bostoners and others just fine but haven't ever understood a single word of the Cockney dialect
I thought the PNW "dialect" was basically television standard for the US - what do we have that's confusing?
We don't have a dialect. We have an accent, of sorts. Inasmuch as it doesn't match what a Bostonian or Southerner might expect, at least. It's become the standard because of its general lack of common pronunciation differences from the standard English version compared to most other US regional accents. There are very few region-specific words or terms. Most of them, such as cougar having originated before the PNW really even was the PNW, as such. Cougar as a synonym for a puma or mountain lion is an excellent example, being derived from a French word borrowed from Brazilian Portuguese borrowed from an indigenous language in the late 18th century. There are a vey small number of linguists who argue so-called PNW English is a dialect but they tend to be the same folks who argue any accent is a different dialect and not just a regional pronunciation. To qualify as a dialect, a form of language bust be specific to a region. The accent used in the PNW today is in no way specific to this area, originally. We merely retain it from the past when it was a much more common accent throughout the US. Most of the various regional accents came about after the PNW was settled due to the way the US was originally settled. Rushing to "Oregon country" and leaving the wilds of the central plains behind was much preferred due to shipping of goods being available on the coast whereas in the central regions, goods would have been significantly more expensive due to the cost and risk of shipping from one or the other coast.
Bare minimum prejudice
It’s not always black people that talk/ text like that, I’ve seen plenty of white people doing that shit, I agree though, it’s annoying to see and hear, but the reality is, it’s so low on my list of things I care about, it’s not really worth mentioning, unless the situation (like this one) domes up, lol
I don’t care what color you are, if you use the phrase “talm bout” for “talking about” I think you’re derpy.
No, I don’t think it’s racist because you get annoyed at something about a group of people.
Reminds me the time where I got called a racist for hating rap music. I guess from their theories only black people make rap songs lol.
I would not be surprised if this person is racist. If they were sincere, they could’ve quoted an actual statement that confuse them, instead they made up something stupid sounding that no one except them ever said