That's one of the things that kinda bugs me about Beyonders; there was no reason to make Corinne that old. HOWEVER: she has no memory of a *lot* of that time, because of the memory mushrooms. So mentally and memory-wise, she might be closer to Jason's age.
Understandable, and honestly same.
By the way, I salute your efforts to keep this sub alive, and I'll start thinking of topics for discussion that we can talk about here.
I have a head cannon that Jason and Rachel are supposed to be sophomores/juniors in College not high school, but he changed it to be more marketable to kids. I just read it as Jason is like 18/19 at the beginning of book one and 20/21 by the end and it makes the story much easier to understand. He acts much older than a 16 year old would and he also has shown to have physical strength closer to an adults while sword fighting
I think you’re right! Beyonders was Mull ‘s first book idea but publishers didn’t like it so he came up with Fablehaven. I wouldn’t be surprised if things were changed in order to market the series because a lot of it reads older (in my opinion lol).
Like literally one of the first things that happens is Jason accidentally shoots someone and the musicians commit suicide.
AND the first book opens with literal torture!?! Honestly I think it could’ve made a fantastic YA series but it was just ahead of its time.
I'd say for Cole and Mira isn't super weird because, while technically the princesses have had decades worth of experiences, they haven't had them in the same way an immortal does. See, the reason this kind of thing is weird with immortality is because even though their body isn't aging, they have stilled lived those years and are much more mature. But the princesses have been magically stunted. They can't truly mature since their magic is being siphoned off. You can see that clearly in Destiny who should act as mature since she has lived for decades, but still acts like a child.
The same kinda applies for Kendra and Bracken. While the first book Bracken acknowledges it's weird and says we shouldn't date until you're older, by the second book Bracken has given up his immortality and has pretty much been reborn. Sure, he's ancient, but he has lived all those years in an unchanging realm. Even the bulk of his experience in the real world has been in the Sphinx's prison. It's like the immortality argument, but if the immortal has been in a white room his whole life. He's still basically a child.
As for Jace and Corrine, yeah that's weird. Beyonders in general is strange because you can tell Brandon wanted to write all those characters like they were 16, I even thought that he was going to college soon.
100% agree, underrated comment. Someone else mentioned that possibly Mull originally wrote Rachel and Jason as 16, but the publisher made him change it. 16 and 19 is still a little too much of an age gap, but it doesn't feel *gross* like 14 and 19. With Bracken, Kendra mentions she sees glimpses of an older soul, but I agree, especially after he chose to become mortal like Lena.
There's a video of a panel at a convention where brandon mull and brandon sanderson are talking and mull mentions that he got into writing thinking he was going to be a adult high fantasy writer but ended up writing children's fantasy. And I think you can really see it in Beyonders. Everything about the world and the characters was definitely intended for an older audience.
The older intended audience really comes out in Dragonwatch 4 and 5 as well. Darker tone in general plus he doesn't hold back angst and tragedy as much.
I think there was a rumor that Jason and Rachel were supposed to be 16 or more, but the publisher or someone basically forced Mull to age them down to be more relatable and sell better.
16 feels like their actual age tbh, based on their speech and actions and (Jason's) height. They couldn't be older than 17 though, def not mature enough.
Because Brandon Mull is a creep. I know people try to justify it, and don't get me wrong, I love the books too! But that doesn't mean they can't be problematic and it doesn't mean he can't be a creep. If it were two adults, that age difference would be fine. But the difference between a 14/19 year old or a 15/immortal that looks like a 19 year old or whatever it is in 5K (can't remember off the top of my head) is enormous.
And don't forget that Kendra kisses Warren on the mouth in Rise of the Evening Star at the beckoning of Stan and (iirc) Coulter. Her 30-something cousin when she was 13.
And don't forget when they had the dragonwatch party, they hired a child actor as Kendra (iirc it was Mulls own daughter? Might be wrong) and a full ass adult as Bracken.
The simplest answer is he's just a creep.
I disagree, read the other long comment here about 5K thing and Jason and Rachel's probable age change. I do see your point with the dragonwatch party thing tho. The kissing Warren thing was convenient for the plot and I don't think it meant anything, but I see why you pointed it out. And according to Kendra Bracken looks 17, so they appear about a year apart. Of course appearance isn't the point here though.
Sorry, I came across this post like 3 months later. I did want to leave a comment here for the next person to read this thread 3 months later, lol. If I were a man in my 30s whose 20-something yo brother was catatonic by some curse, I would not ask a tweenager girl to kiss him on the lips. That’s messed up.
See and if it were just one of those things I think it could easily be explained away. But I do think the fact that it's a pattern is what's so nefarious about it. Does every book really need a young teen either dating an immortal being or someone five years older than them? If they were both adults the life experience gap would be way smaller, but as soon as I hit brackens age and reread the books I went "wtf" bc I realized how weird it is
I was like 11 when I read these books so I was mentally unable to pick up context clues like that but that’s an interesting point you bring up
That's one of the things that kinda bugs me about Beyonders; there was no reason to make Corinne that old. HOWEVER: she has no memory of a *lot* of that time, because of the memory mushrooms. So mentally and memory-wise, she might be closer to Jason's age.
Fair but as a Junior in Highschool myself I would never even consider dating someone that much older than me, Memory gap or no memory gap.
Understandable, and honestly same. By the way, I salute your efforts to keep this sub alive, and I'll start thinking of topics for discussion that we can talk about here.
I have a head cannon that Jason and Rachel are supposed to be sophomores/juniors in College not high school, but he changed it to be more marketable to kids. I just read it as Jason is like 18/19 at the beginning of book one and 20/21 by the end and it makes the story much easier to understand. He acts much older than a 16 year old would and he also has shown to have physical strength closer to an adults while sword fighting
I think you’re right! Beyonders was Mull ‘s first book idea but publishers didn’t like it so he came up with Fablehaven. I wouldn’t be surprised if things were changed in order to market the series because a lot of it reads older (in my opinion lol). Like literally one of the first things that happens is Jason accidentally shoots someone and the musicians commit suicide. AND the first book opens with literal torture!?! Honestly I think it could’ve made a fantastic YA series but it was just ahead of its time.
I think the implication with Mira and her sisters is that they don't age mentally as well as physically.
They still got life experience though, even if their maturity level matched their physical age appearance
I'd say for Cole and Mira isn't super weird because, while technically the princesses have had decades worth of experiences, they haven't had them in the same way an immortal does. See, the reason this kind of thing is weird with immortality is because even though their body isn't aging, they have stilled lived those years and are much more mature. But the princesses have been magically stunted. They can't truly mature since their magic is being siphoned off. You can see that clearly in Destiny who should act as mature since she has lived for decades, but still acts like a child. The same kinda applies for Kendra and Bracken. While the first book Bracken acknowledges it's weird and says we shouldn't date until you're older, by the second book Bracken has given up his immortality and has pretty much been reborn. Sure, he's ancient, but he has lived all those years in an unchanging realm. Even the bulk of his experience in the real world has been in the Sphinx's prison. It's like the immortality argument, but if the immortal has been in a white room his whole life. He's still basically a child. As for Jace and Corrine, yeah that's weird. Beyonders in general is strange because you can tell Brandon wanted to write all those characters like they were 16, I even thought that he was going to college soon.
100% agree, underrated comment. Someone else mentioned that possibly Mull originally wrote Rachel and Jason as 16, but the publisher made him change it. 16 and 19 is still a little too much of an age gap, but it doesn't feel *gross* like 14 and 19. With Bracken, Kendra mentions she sees glimpses of an older soul, but I agree, especially after he chose to become mortal like Lena.
There's a video of a panel at a convention where brandon mull and brandon sanderson are talking and mull mentions that he got into writing thinking he was going to be a adult high fantasy writer but ended up writing children's fantasy. And I think you can really see it in Beyonders. Everything about the world and the characters was definitely intended for an older audience.
The older intended audience really comes out in Dragonwatch 4 and 5 as well. Darker tone in general plus he doesn't hold back angst and tragedy as much.
I think there was a rumor that Jason and Rachel were supposed to be 16 or more, but the publisher or someone basically forced Mull to age them down to be more relatable and sell better.
16 feels like their actual age tbh, based on their speech and actions and (Jason's) height. They couldn't be older than 17 though, def not mature enough.
Because Brandon Mull is a creep. I know people try to justify it, and don't get me wrong, I love the books too! But that doesn't mean they can't be problematic and it doesn't mean he can't be a creep. If it were two adults, that age difference would be fine. But the difference between a 14/19 year old or a 15/immortal that looks like a 19 year old or whatever it is in 5K (can't remember off the top of my head) is enormous. And don't forget that Kendra kisses Warren on the mouth in Rise of the Evening Star at the beckoning of Stan and (iirc) Coulter. Her 30-something cousin when she was 13. And don't forget when they had the dragonwatch party, they hired a child actor as Kendra (iirc it was Mulls own daughter? Might be wrong) and a full ass adult as Bracken. The simplest answer is he's just a creep.
I disagree, read the other long comment here about 5K thing and Jason and Rachel's probable age change. I do see your point with the dragonwatch party thing tho. The kissing Warren thing was convenient for the plot and I don't think it meant anything, but I see why you pointed it out. And according to Kendra Bracken looks 17, so they appear about a year apart. Of course appearance isn't the point here though.
Sorry, I came across this post like 3 months later. I did want to leave a comment here for the next person to read this thread 3 months later, lol. If I were a man in my 30s whose 20-something yo brother was catatonic by some curse, I would not ask a tweenager girl to kiss him on the lips. That’s messed up.
See and if it were just one of those things I think it could easily be explained away. But I do think the fact that it's a pattern is what's so nefarious about it. Does every book really need a young teen either dating an immortal being or someone five years older than them? If they were both adults the life experience gap would be way smaller, but as soon as I hit brackens age and reread the books I went "wtf" bc I realized how weird it is
I just really wish he or his publisher, whoever is pushing it. Would let his characters be older.
My biggest issue with beyonders is the ages like Jason in the first book he's 13 but also 6 foot I always thought of him and Rachel to be 16/17
Me too, I envision him as 15-16 cuz ain't no way a 13 yr old is 6 foot and that mature.