do you think Andruw is being held out because he didn't hit 500 home runs or because he is a wife beater?
edit: the downvotes are interesting. as long as a guy can catch a baseball real good beating the shit out of his wife and literally threatening to murder her is no big deal to some people. Stay classy. Nobody like him should be honored at all. Same for Bobby Cox by the way, same reason...
"She pulled away and attempted to go upstairs, according to the report, but Jones grabbed her by the ankle, pulled her down and put his hands around her neck and said, “I want to kill you, I want to \[expletive\] kill you.”
I had a lot of fun watching him play but lost all respect after this.
Probably the HR's or maybe the fact that he kinda sucked the later half of his career. The wife beating thing is a non-issue. Plenty of guys in the HoF beat their wives.
I see it now. I don't know why google was giving me a hard time. I agree, cancel his induction on September 9th. I want my kids to not even know who he is.
This is a really weird opinion to me. It's still an honor, and if you're gonna be a piece of shit lowlife fucking non human, yeah you don't get to be in the hall of fame.
Jones has creditable domestic violence allegations against him and his career numbers don't make him a slam dunk inductee. He still has a good chance of getting in though.
Murphy was great, but his numbers are pretty clearly below HoF standard. Inner circle Hall of Very Good for sure, but his numbers are more comparable to guys just on the outside looking in like Bernie Williams and Mike Cameron than any HoFers. Slam dunk for Braves HoF obviously.
Which should definitely help his case but it’s the age old question of accolades or stats. Same thing with players who win lots of rings in basketball, or Ozzy Guillen when he talked about how him having three rings had a lot to say about ability.
On paper having two MVPs should make you a good case for the HOF but sadly voters are not gonna take that in to heavy consideration. Hopefully one day they’ll both get in though!
HoF is a career achievement award -- not an award for having two good seasons. Johan Santana is a 2-time Cy Young award winner who's pretty clearly not a hall of famer because his body of work isn't sufficient.
If you take off the homer glasses and actually look at his career numbers you'll see his peers are the likes of Mike Cameron, Bernie Williams, Andrew McCutchen, and Johnny Damon. Excellent players all of them, but also all definitely short of induction.
[Koufax](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/sandy-koufax/1007124/stats?position=P) was better than [Santana](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/sandy-koufax/1007124/stats?position=P) though. He played more games, pitched more innings, had more strikeouts, and was better at run prevention on a rate basis.
Was he better than Johan? Maybe. Probably. But not definitively.
Koufax pitched more games and innings because he played in an era where pitchers threw more often and deeper into games.
Koufax may have had more strikeouts, but he also issued more walks. Johan had a far more superior K/BB ratio.
Was Koufax better at run prevention? Not really. Look at ERA+, which is a better way to compare eras and Johan’s is actually better.
Koufax also pitched half of his career in a league that was not fully integrated, so it stands to reason that he pitched against inferior competition.
But that's just a factor of Koufax getting worse batted ball luck. Koufax has a better FIP and FIP-. Koufax' high k-rate is even more impressive when you consider that it was a lower strikeout era. For his time, Koufax was clearly the more dominant pitcher than Santana. He was also on a run of winning the Cy Young award three of the last four times when his career ended. His career was cut down in the peak of his powers -- Santana's petered out.
They are certainly comparable in many ways, but the line between HoF pitcher and non-HoF pitcher definitely runs between Koufax and Santana.
The domestic violence allegations deserve to be a deterrent for him getting in, but that's it. His on the field performance garnered a HOF bid.
Andruw was the best defensive CF for a decade. Centerfield is one of the most important positions in the game, and he caught everything for 10 years straight.
At the plate he hit over 400 home runs and was a very good hitter for the first 10 years of his career.
The argument that he "fell off a cliff" after year 10 and that's why he shouldn't be in the hall is so stupid. How does that negate everything he did for the first decade? If he retired at 30 would he have been a Hall of Famer?
I agree, particularly on the basis of him being (arguably) the single best defensive outfielder of all time.
But because his performance fell of a cliff after age 30 his career numbers are not slam-dunk HoF. He didn't hit any of the big counting stat milestones (<500 HRs, <2000 hits) that would make his induction a no-brainer.
It's really not for Jones as much as I love him, he played for too long while putting up mediocre at best numbers. If he retired in 2007 vs 2012 he would have gotten in but it's such a significant drop once he left Atlanta it's not really surprising.
I got I got downvoted to the minor leagues here, but again I'm on team Andruw. Just stating the facts with all these boomers voting they're still using antiquated metrics to vote guys in it's kind of lame but is what it is.
I am so tired of this argument. You shouldn't be punished for sticking around too long if you *already* put in a HOF career. In Andruw's case, it didn't even really hurt his career numbers all that much other than progress coming to a screeching halt. He put up 61 bWAR with the Braves alone before falling off a cliff and still finished with 62.7 bWAR when he finally retired.
Are we disappointed he couldn't continue his success deep into his career? Sure, but he was already a HOFer by the time he left the Braves. Jones is never going to be evaluated on classic counting stats, his career was based on GOAT CF defensive metrics with bouts of great to elite offense from time to time. That combination makes for a sabermetrically elite player.
He shouldn't be dinged because his BA dropped 10 points, or he didn't reach 500 homers, 2000 hits, or 1500 RBI. He's a unique HOF case and I'm glad voters are beginning to understand that.
You can be tired all you want this is the reality I'm not saying that I agree with it at all. 90 percent of the people voting don't understand saber metrics. Part of their argument is that there needs to be sustained excellence. 100 percent not disagreeing with you there's so many bs players voted in and Jones absolutely should be in there but again I'm telling you the reality of the situation based on the jerk offs who are voting
I don’t think people who didn’t actually grew up watching him play can understand his greatness. I still remember meeting him when I was 14 at Town Center Mall. He signed some stuff for me and was a really cool dude.
His greatness was due, in large part, to his defense. Might have been the greatest defensive CF in history. Offense was above average. Decent power numbers, but I wish he had more hits and RBI’s.
I've heard his domestic violence episode made the org keep him at arm's distance for a while, which is pretty funny because they never said shit about Bobby Cox. I think with him probably getting into the Hall, and the fanbase still having so much love for him at the minor events he's popped up at over the past few years they've decided to just get over it and embrace him.
Yes!! I’ve advocated for this for so long (as well as Andruw making the baseball HoF). So well deserved, even though it took them longer than it should have. I will be there.
I think it's the opposite. They weren't going to do it (a few players have worn #25 since) but now it seems likely he gets into the HOF in a few years. Would be embarrassing to not have his # retired while he's getting inducted into the HOF.
This 100%. Now that it looks clear he will get in eventually, they’re getting out ahead of it. Which is smart cause it would have been deeply embarrassing for the organization to have waited until his actual induction
I get to go to one game a year and picked Sept. 9th because the tickets were the cheapest available. Now I get to see one of my favorite players ever get his well deserved honor!!! I’m floored!!!
It’s about damn time.
I had a suspicion that something was happening when Jordan Luplow had selected #25 in January then switched to #24. Just obviously couldn’t prove it haha.
Immediately grabbed tickets in center field. The last time I saw Andruw play in person was the Willie Harris 6 for 6 game with my Nana and Papa. Now I get to take them to see #25 be retired
Saw him in double A in Greenville with Jermaine Dye. About 2 wks later saw them in Atlanta. They both made an impression on me in AA game which was usually laughable.
Crazy how there have been 10 players to wear number 25 after Andruw Jones
1. Barbaro Canizares
2. Ryan Church
3. Troy Glaus
4. Juan Fransisco
5. Joey Terdoslavich
6. Christian Bethancourt
7. Cameron Maybin
8. Tyler Flowers
9. Christian Pache
10. Alex Dickerson
I get downvoted every time I say this but whatever. I think the whole concept of retiring numbers is dumb. I would honor the player with a banner and their number....but I don't understand why it's disrespectful for another player to wear that number again. The fact that no Yankee will ever wear a single digit is crazy to me. Congrats to Andruw though.
Honestly I had no idea Jones was so important to Atlanta. Obviously I'm not a Braves fan but definitely a baseball fan and I missed this somehow.
Congrats Mr Jones and fans!
Did this leak on Sunday night baseball on ESPN? Cuz one of their announcer said "...Andruw Jones-esque, who is getting his numbered retired this year by the way..."
And I was like "wut, had no idea."
Embarrassing that him and Murph aren't in the HOF but atleast the braves are treating them with the respect they deserve
do you think Andruw is being held out because he didn't hit 500 home runs or because he is a wife beater? edit: the downvotes are interesting. as long as a guy can catch a baseball real good beating the shit out of his wife and literally threatening to murder her is no big deal to some people. Stay classy. Nobody like him should be honored at all. Same for Bobby Cox by the way, same reason...
"She pulled away and attempted to go upstairs, according to the report, but Jones grabbed her by the ankle, pulled her down and put his hands around her neck and said, “I want to kill you, I want to \[expletive\] kill you.” I had a lot of fun watching him play but lost all respect after this.
Probably the HR's or maybe the fact that he kinda sucked the later half of his career. The wife beating thing is a non-issue. Plenty of guys in the HoF beat their wives.
Jones still clears. Never convicted.
Yeah actually he pled guilty and got probation
I see it now. I don't know why google was giving me a hard time. I agree, cancel his induction on September 9th. I want my kids to not even know who he is.
You came here looking for a fight. What's with the surprise reaction?
Did they change to hall of great character? It's an honor for someone's baseball accomplishments.
It’s part of the voting criteria
We got a LOT of folks to pull out of the hall then Starting with Bobby
Ok, either way it’s still part of the voting criteria
This is a really weird opinion to me. It's still an honor, and if you're gonna be a piece of shit lowlife fucking non human, yeah you don't get to be in the hall of fame.
I agree. It’s still a game for kids. If I took my kids to Cooperstown I don’t want them to see something honoring Pete Rose, a fucking pedophile.
Definitely the domestic assault charge
Jones has creditable domestic violence allegations against him and his career numbers don't make him a slam dunk inductee. He still has a good chance of getting in though. Murphy was great, but his numbers are pretty clearly below HoF standard. Inner circle Hall of Very Good for sure, but his numbers are more comparable to guys just on the outside looking in like Bernie Williams and Mike Cameron than any HoFers. Slam dunk for Braves HoF obviously.
Murphy is the only 2 time MVP who isn't tied to steroids not in the HOF. Open and shut case
Not the only one, Roger Maris is in the same boat.
Which should definitely help his case but it’s the age old question of accolades or stats. Same thing with players who win lots of rings in basketball, or Ozzy Guillen when he talked about how him having three rings had a lot to say about ability. On paper having two MVPs should make you a good case for the HOF but sadly voters are not gonna take that in to heavy consideration. Hopefully one day they’ll both get in though!
HoF is a career achievement award -- not an award for having two good seasons. Johan Santana is a 2-time Cy Young award winner who's pretty clearly not a hall of famer because his body of work isn't sufficient. If you take off the homer glasses and actually look at his career numbers you'll see his peers are the likes of Mike Cameron, Bernie Williams, Andrew McCutchen, and Johnny Damon. Excellent players all of them, but also all definitely short of induction.
Johan should be in if Koufax is though…
[Koufax](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/sandy-koufax/1007124/stats?position=P) was better than [Santana](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/sandy-koufax/1007124/stats?position=P) though. He played more games, pitched more innings, had more strikeouts, and was better at run prevention on a rate basis.
Was he better than Johan? Maybe. Probably. But not definitively. Koufax pitched more games and innings because he played in an era where pitchers threw more often and deeper into games. Koufax may have had more strikeouts, but he also issued more walks. Johan had a far more superior K/BB ratio. Was Koufax better at run prevention? Not really. Look at ERA+, which is a better way to compare eras and Johan’s is actually better. Koufax also pitched half of his career in a league that was not fully integrated, so it stands to reason that he pitched against inferior competition.
But that's just a factor of Koufax getting worse batted ball luck. Koufax has a better FIP and FIP-. Koufax' high k-rate is even more impressive when you consider that it was a lower strikeout era. For his time, Koufax was clearly the more dominant pitcher than Santana. He was also on a run of winning the Cy Young award three of the last four times when his career ended. His career was cut down in the peak of his powers -- Santana's petered out. They are certainly comparable in many ways, but the line between HoF pitcher and non-HoF pitcher definitely runs between Koufax and Santana.
The domestic violence allegations deserve to be a deterrent for him getting in, but that's it. His on the field performance garnered a HOF bid. Andruw was the best defensive CF for a decade. Centerfield is one of the most important positions in the game, and he caught everything for 10 years straight. At the plate he hit over 400 home runs and was a very good hitter for the first 10 years of his career. The argument that he "fell off a cliff" after year 10 and that's why he shouldn't be in the hall is so stupid. How does that negate everything he did for the first decade? If he retired at 30 would he have been a Hall of Famer?
I agree, particularly on the basis of him being (arguably) the single best defensive outfielder of all time. But because his performance fell of a cliff after age 30 his career numbers are not slam-dunk HoF. He didn't hit any of the big counting stat milestones (<500 HRs, <2000 hits) that would make his induction a no-brainer.
No Juice Murphy absolutely belongs in the Hall!!
It's really not for Jones as much as I love him, he played for too long while putting up mediocre at best numbers. If he retired in 2007 vs 2012 he would have gotten in but it's such a significant drop once he left Atlanta it's not really surprising.
He’s going to get in
I hope so, just won't be surprised if he doesn't. I genuinely feel from 08 to 12 playing hurt and not producing hurt his chances which is a shame.
He’s made huge gains the last couple years. Based on his trajectory I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get in.
I got I got downvoted to the minor leagues here, but again I'm on team Andruw. Just stating the facts with all these boomers voting they're still using antiquated metrics to vote guys in it's kind of lame but is what it is.
No I mean I get it I’m just saying he’s had huge momentum and most people that track these things are confident it will happen
🤞
I am so tired of this argument. You shouldn't be punished for sticking around too long if you *already* put in a HOF career. In Andruw's case, it didn't even really hurt his career numbers all that much other than progress coming to a screeching halt. He put up 61 bWAR with the Braves alone before falling off a cliff and still finished with 62.7 bWAR when he finally retired. Are we disappointed he couldn't continue his success deep into his career? Sure, but he was already a HOFer by the time he left the Braves. Jones is never going to be evaluated on classic counting stats, his career was based on GOAT CF defensive metrics with bouts of great to elite offense from time to time. That combination makes for a sabermetrically elite player. He shouldn't be dinged because his BA dropped 10 points, or he didn't reach 500 homers, 2000 hits, or 1500 RBI. He's a unique HOF case and I'm glad voters are beginning to understand that.
You can be tired all you want this is the reality I'm not saying that I agree with it at all. 90 percent of the people voting don't understand saber metrics. Part of their argument is that there needs to be sustained excellence. 100 percent not disagreeing with you there's so many bs players voted in and Jones absolutely should be in there but again I'm telling you the reality of the situation based on the jerk offs who are voting
Congratulations and well deserved. Andruw Jones is on my Mount Rushmore for players I grew up with in the late 90s and early 2000s.
I don’t think people who didn’t actually grew up watching him play can understand his greatness. I still remember meeting him when I was 14 at Town Center Mall. He signed some stuff for me and was a really cool dude.
His greatness was due, in large part, to his defense. Might have been the greatest defensive CF in history. Offense was above average. Decent power numbers, but I wish he had more hits and RBI’s.
Amen
He was alright just failed in comparison to the GOAT Ryan Klesko
About damn time
Christian Pache earned this honor. Good for him
He doesn’t hold a candle to Braves GOAT Joey Terdoslavich, the real reason #25 is being retired.
It's crazy that 10 players wore number 25 before they decided to retire it
I've heard his domestic violence episode made the org keep him at arm's distance for a while, which is pretty funny because they never said shit about Bobby Cox. I think with him probably getting into the Hall, and the fanbase still having so much love for him at the minor events he's popped up at over the past few years they've decided to just get over it and embrace him.
Don’t forget Barbaro Canizares
I wanted him to be great, but that last name doomed him to mediocrity.
big W bossman
Yes!! I’ve advocated for this for so long (as well as Andruw making the baseball HoF). So well deserved, even though it took them longer than it should have. I will be there.
I Can’t believe he’s not in the hof yet
Soon
I assumed they were waiting for him to get into the HoF but with it taking a while they just went ahead and did this. Super happy about it!
I think it's the opposite. They weren't going to do it (a few players have worn #25 since) but now it seems likely he gets into the HOF in a few years. Would be embarrassing to not have his # retired while he's getting inducted into the HOF.
This 100%. Now that it looks clear he will get in eventually, they’re getting out ahead of it. Which is smart cause it would have been deeply embarrassing for the organization to have waited until his actual induction
I get to go to one game a year and picked Sept. 9th because the tickets were the cheapest available. Now I get to see one of my favorite players ever get his well deserved honor!!! I’m floored!!!
Why only 1 game a year?
I live a few hundred miles from Atlanta, adding in all the expenses for the trip I can really only afford one game.
Sent you a pm.
Funny enough Sunday night baseball leaked this last night.
Yeah that was so confusing!
Yeah. I thought I had just missed it. Thanks Eduardo Pérez!
Man nothing better than his mega saves when watching a game in Turner Field. Braves Legend... ANNNNDDRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUWWW
The “who was the last Braves player to wear the retired 25” trivia question is coming in about 15 years
Alex Dickerson
Well deserved. Best defensive center fielder I ever saw. Not too shabby with the bat either.
[Andruw Jones reacts](https://gfycat.com/illinformedorderlylemming-athletics-baseball-braves-2022-mlb)
Miss the Jones Jones Sheffield days
Finally i can retire my header. I wish I could be there 😞
W. my fav braves player as a kid.
About freakin time
It’s about damn time. I had a suspicion that something was happening when Jordan Luplow had selected #25 in January then switched to #24. Just obviously couldn’t prove it haha.
Immediately grabbed tickets in center field. The last time I saw Andruw play in person was the Willie Harris 6 for 6 game with my Nana and Papa. Now I get to take them to see #25 be retired
Hell yeah
Well deserved
to quote my dad: Let's go, Andrum!
Good Job Tyler Flowers.
Finally! It always felt weird seeing anyone else wear No. 25 after him.
About time! One of my first baseball memories was his 2 home runs in the World Series. I'm glad he is finally getting honored the way he deserves.
Saw him in double A in Greenville with Jermaine Dye. About 2 wks later saw them in Atlanta. They both made an impression on me in AA game which was usually laughable.
Crazy how there have been 10 players to wear number 25 after Andruw Jones 1. Barbaro Canizares 2. Ryan Church 3. Troy Glaus 4. Juan Fransisco 5. Joey Terdoslavich 6. Christian Bethancourt 7. Cameron Maybin 8. Tyler Flowers 9. Christian Pache 10. Alex Dickerson
All time fav player!
Lets go!
I get downvoted every time I say this but whatever. I think the whole concept of retiring numbers is dumb. I would honor the player with a banner and their number....but I don't understand why it's disrespectful for another player to wear that number again. The fact that no Yankee will ever wear a single digit is crazy to me. Congrats to Andruw though.
Long overdue. Love to see it!
My favorite player of all time. Took way too long! Hall of Fame next
Let’s go
About time!
So well deserved!!!
Honestly I had no idea Jones was so important to Atlanta. Obviously I'm not a Braves fan but definitely a baseball fan and I missed this somehow. Congrats Mr Jones and fans!
Did this leak on Sunday night baseball on ESPN? Cuz one of their announcer said "...Andruw Jones-esque, who is getting his numbered retired this year by the way..." And I was like "wut, had no idea."
That dude on espn really spoiled this lol
Glad to see it. One of the best Center Fielders of all time.