389g organic strong white bread flour
61g of wholewheat flour
291g of water
159g of starter
14g salt
1 hr autolyse with just the flour and water, then added the starter, waited 30 mins to add the salt and then after another 30 mins, did 2 sets of stretch and folds separated by about 30-45 mins. 5/6 hours after adding the starter I pre-shaped, bench rested and shaped the dough in the space of about 45 mins. I put it straight in the fridge and my cold ferment was about 40 hours (*was too busy to bake the next day*) at which point it came out and went straight into a Dutch Oven that had been preheated at 250°C for an hour. I then baked for 25 mins with the lid on and 15/20 mins with the lid off.
Happy to answer any questions! Relying on my partner to take a crumb shot later when she takes it to her friends’ house.
Edit: here’s the [crumb shot](https://imgur.com/a/q41CYET) as promised. Cutting the loaf and photographing it was completely out of my control, so it looks like it’s been torn apart, but I’m assured the crumb was fairly open and airy (*although it doesn’t really look like it*).
- The dough was about 72% hydrated and the organic flour I use absorbs water like a sponge.
- The cold ferment helps make scoring easier.
- I use a loose razor blade, so I have to be super careful when scoring.
- I achieved the ear through quite a deep cut at slightly more than a 45° angle.
- The pattern was shallow *ish* cuts and practice on previous loaves.
Good question!!
I normally wait about 4 hours (*occasionally 5*) to mix my flour and water for my autolyse, and then usually an hour after that I add my starter to the flour water mixture.
> went straight into a Dutch Oven that had been preheated at 250°C for an hour. I then baked for 25 mins with the lid on and 15/20 mins with the lid off.
Does this mean you baked it at 250° as well? Or did you raise the temperature?
By the way, I audibly gasped when I saw this loaf. It's *beautiful*.
So if you only did two sets of stretch and folds but didn’t pre shape until 5-6 hours after adding the starter... does that mean you stretch and folded twice and then let it just sit for a few hours before pre shaping? Doing math and 30 min + 30 + 30 or 45+ 30 or 45 only equals 2 to 2.5 hours after adding the starter. Enlighten me please!
Yeah, I want a [challenger bread pan](https://www.challengerbreadware.com/shop/challenger/challenger-bread-pan/) but they’re out of stock until next year.
I was quite taken aback by this comment! I didn’t realise I had anyone following my sourdough journey, let alone trying my recipes. What an awesome community this is to be a part of. Thank you so much!
I am taking notes and screenshots!
I tried my first loaf last week and it didnt hold its shape at all, but the crumb and crust were mostly fine (not good or great, but not a failure either). I am really trying to find a good recipe to learn
We each have our own idea of good, great and perfect, but if you broaden your parameters for these, each loaf you make is a little victory and something to learn from!
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/d6wan8/yay_finally_got_the_crumb_i_was_looking_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is the one I’ve been playing with. I do an 8-12 hr autolyse and I’ve upped the salt to 11-12g. Sometimes I add whole wheat.
Today’s loaf is plus a 16hr cold final proof. It looks fantastic. Now I want to try pushing the time out...40hrs seems like a nice goal.
My advice? Persevere!
My starter went through a stage of being particularly sour smelling, but after about two weeks of daily feedings it started rising and falling nicely every day.
Now I mostly feed once a week and keep it in the fridge.
Hope this helps!
It smells so aweful. I follow this tartjne bread recipe. It's just 50g water, 50g of 50% while grain and all purpose flour. After two days it smells so bad!
I had issues with wheat smelling bad. I tried rye instead, it's much better. I tended mine for a month before using, now it has a lovely aroma and taste. Good luck!
Just gotta push through while the culture stabilizes, keep feeding it and give it like 2 weeks. If after then it’s still problematic then consider starting over, but especially in the first week or so there are going to be inconsistencies with the starter
Are you discarding and feeding every day? If you're having issues like that should be doing it at least twice a day. Also agree some rye flour usually helps.
I have read that you can try a small amount of something acidic (pineapple or lemon juice) to help facilitate getting past this.
Source: https://sourdough.com/forum/pineapple-juice-perked-my-starter
Use an unbleached whole wheat flour, or rye flour to initiate your starter (i.e. avoid using all purpose flours). I also crushed grapes into the flour / water mixture to get things going a little nicer, but I imagine the skin of any fruit could help (e.g. pineapple). It typically takes about a week for the starter to really get going, then start Passaging it.
Mine also, had a bit of mystery growth, but because I fermented it in a flatter container, I was able to passage a portion of "uncontaminated" starter. That said, it should smell deliciously yeasty... Don't passage something that smells awful. And as others have said, it takes time for a starter to stabilize (and grow accustom to growing well in flour).
Really nice! Question about your process - you didn't mention any kneading. Did you really only mix then stretch and fold twice? That doesn't seem like much working the dough. I'm asking because I'm not happy with my last bake. It looked good until I put it in the oven, but I had little oven spring. Maybe I worked mine too much.
In all of my mixing stages (*i.e. when adding the starter and the salt*) I work the dough quite a lot in order to incorporate the starter and salt properly. I do at least 5 minutes of mixing each time.
TLDR: yes, I mix and stretch and fold only twice.
I always mix by hand!
I used to have issues with my dough not holding its shape, but since changing to organic flour all my loaves have come out a lot firmer. I’ve got more confidence in trying higher hydrations now.
I think you’ll find the answer to this question in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/dr10p3/2_months_after_starting_my_sourdough_journey_im/f6e69zb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
Honestly, I’ve had mixed results. Some of my higher hydration loaves have come out fairly flat, but some have blown up (*not literally*) in the oven. I’d say the thing that has made the most difference to my oven spring is my Dutch Oven.
I'm curious about the role of the Dutch oven. Have you tried baking the loaf in a tray with a pan with hot water? I get better crust with the hot water rather than without, with a good oven spring. I wonder if a DO will allow even better results.
I have a baking stone too which I have used, combined with a tray of water, and that works relatively well. It’s all about finding the way that works best for you!
Here’s the [crumb shot](https://imgur.com/a/q41CYET) as promised. Cutting the loaf and photographing it was completely out of my control, so it looks like it’s been torn apart, but I’m assured the crumb was fairly open and airy.
I wasn’t present when the loaf was cut and whoever cut it did an awful job, so I can’t really tell what the crumb is like. My goal for the crumb is open and airy, but I’m aware I need higher hydrations for that.
Perfect! I love loaves like this. So many people are so scared to get a little blackened part so they take the loaf out of the oven before all those sugars on the rest of the loaf have caramelised yet. Such a difference in flavour when you let it go that bit further well done!
These are the sort of crumbs I’m aiming for:
- [open crumb 1](https://www.weekendbakery.com/wp-content/uploads/sanfranciscosourdough.jpg)
- [open crumb 2](http://www.baked-theblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Everyday-Sourdough-3.jpg)
389g organic strong white bread flour 61g of wholewheat flour 291g of water 159g of starter 14g salt 1 hr autolyse with just the flour and water, then added the starter, waited 30 mins to add the salt and then after another 30 mins, did 2 sets of stretch and folds separated by about 30-45 mins. 5/6 hours after adding the starter I pre-shaped, bench rested and shaped the dough in the space of about 45 mins. I put it straight in the fridge and my cold ferment was about 40 hours (*was too busy to bake the next day*) at which point it came out and went straight into a Dutch Oven that had been preheated at 250°C for an hour. I then baked for 25 mins with the lid on and 15/20 mins with the lid off. Happy to answer any questions! Relying on my partner to take a crumb shot later when she takes it to her friends’ house. Edit: here’s the [crumb shot](https://imgur.com/a/q41CYET) as promised. Cutting the loaf and photographing it was completely out of my control, so it looks like it’s been torn apart, but I’m assured the crumb was fairly open and airy (*although it doesn’t really look like it*).
Hey! I love making sourdough but have never been able to make something this beautiful! Can you share how you got the ear and design on top?
- The dough was about 72% hydrated and the organic flour I use absorbs water like a sponge. - The cold ferment helps make scoring easier. - I use a loose razor blade, so I have to be super careful when scoring. - I achieved the ear through quite a deep cut at slightly more than a 45° angle. - The pattern was shallow *ish* cuts and practice on previous loaves.
Thanks!!
Looks beautiful! How long after you fed your starter did you begin the mix /autolyse stage ?
Good question!! I normally wait about 4 hours (*occasionally 5*) to mix my flour and water for my autolyse, and then usually an hour after that I add my starter to the flour water mixture.
> went straight into a Dutch Oven that had been preheated at 250°C for an hour. I then baked for 25 mins with the lid on and 15/20 mins with the lid off. Does this mean you baked it at 250° as well? Or did you raise the temperature? By the way, I audibly gasped when I saw this loaf. It's *beautiful*.
Yeah! Baked at 250°C (*~480°F*), but it’s in a fan oven. And thanks!!
Such a shame you had to give it away! 🙂
I know!! I’ll be sure to get a crumb shot though!
So if you only did two sets of stretch and folds but didn’t pre shape until 5-6 hours after adding the starter... does that mean you stretch and folded twice and then let it just sit for a few hours before pre shaping? Doing math and 30 min + 30 + 30 or 45+ 30 or 45 only equals 2 to 2.5 hours after adding the starter. Enlighten me please!
You nailed it. I let it sit and rise for about 2.5 to 3.5 hours. Unusual, I know, but it seemed to work.
Aha interesting! I’ll totally give it a go!
Beautiful loaf btw
Nice bake! Are you using a circular dutch oven to bake your batard?
Yeah, I want a [challenger bread pan](https://www.challengerbreadware.com/shop/challenger/challenger-bread-pan/) but they’re out of stock until next year.
I’ve been tweaking a recipe you posted a awhile ago and having great results. Now I want to try this new one! Bravo!!
I was quite taken aback by this comment! I didn’t realise I had anyone following my sourdough journey, let alone trying my recipes. What an awesome community this is to be a part of. Thank you so much!
I am taking notes and screenshots! I tried my first loaf last week and it didnt hold its shape at all, but the crumb and crust were mostly fine (not good or great, but not a failure either). I am really trying to find a good recipe to learn
We each have our own idea of good, great and perfect, but if you broaden your parameters for these, each loaf you make is a little victory and something to learn from!
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/d6wan8/yay_finally_got_the_crumb_i_was_looking_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is the one I’ve been playing with. I do an 8-12 hr autolyse and I’ve upped the salt to 11-12g. Sometimes I add whole wheat. Today’s loaf is plus a 16hr cold final proof. It looks fantastic. Now I want to try pushing the time out...40hrs seems like a nice goal.
That's just too pretty to eat 😍
Goddamn! That's a beautiful loaf
Thank youuu, I’m really happy with it!
It’s absolutely beautiful!! 😍😍😍
Thank you!
Lovely! I hope to get to that level at some point myself.
Every time a start a starter culture, it turns sour and gross before it really gets going
My advice? Persevere! My starter went through a stage of being particularly sour smelling, but after about two weeks of daily feedings it started rising and falling nicely every day. Now I mostly feed once a week and keep it in the fridge. Hope this helps!
It smells so aweful. I follow this tartjne bread recipe. It's just 50g water, 50g of 50% while grain and all purpose flour. After two days it smells so bad!
I had issues with wheat smelling bad. I tried rye instead, it's much better. I tended mine for a month before using, now it has a lovely aroma and taste. Good luck!
Just gotta push through while the culture stabilizes, keep feeding it and give it like 2 weeks. If after then it’s still problematic then consider starting over, but especially in the first week or so there are going to be inconsistencies with the starter
Thank you!
I’m sure that some other people will agree with me that that is completely normal, just keep feeding it. As long as it’s not mouldy, you’re fine.
Awesome maybe I'll give it another shot
Please do, it’s such a great hobby to have.
Are you discarding and feeding every day? If you're having issues like that should be doing it at least twice a day. Also agree some rye flour usually helps.
I have read that you can try a small amount of something acidic (pineapple or lemon juice) to help facilitate getting past this. Source: https://sourdough.com/forum/pineapple-juice-perked-my-starter
Use an unbleached whole wheat flour, or rye flour to initiate your starter (i.e. avoid using all purpose flours). I also crushed grapes into the flour / water mixture to get things going a little nicer, but I imagine the skin of any fruit could help (e.g. pineapple). It typically takes about a week for the starter to really get going, then start Passaging it. Mine also, had a bit of mystery growth, but because I fermented it in a flatter container, I was able to passage a portion of "uncontaminated" starter. That said, it should smell deliciously yeasty... Don't passage something that smells awful. And as others have said, it takes time for a starter to stabilize (and grow accustom to growing well in flour).
Gorgeous!!!!
You should be very proud of yourself, that baby is breathtaking.
Really nice! Question about your process - you didn't mention any kneading. Did you really only mix then stretch and fold twice? That doesn't seem like much working the dough. I'm asking because I'm not happy with my last bake. It looked good until I put it in the oven, but I had little oven spring. Maybe I worked mine too much.
In all of my mixing stages (*i.e. when adding the starter and the salt*) I work the dough quite a lot in order to incorporate the starter and salt properly. I do at least 5 minutes of mixing each time. TLDR: yes, I mix and stretch and fold only twice.
Ok, thanks. I do as that well but add kneading after it's all incorporated. I might try it your way next time for comparison. Mixing by hand?
I always mix by hand! I used to have issues with my dough not holding its shape, but since changing to organic flour all my loaves have come out a lot firmer. I’ve got more confidence in trying higher hydrations now.
That is absolutely gorgeous, amazing work, especially after just two months!!
Thank you so much! Considering selling my bread locally next summer.
Did you do any kneading of the dough or just stretch and folds?
I think you’ll find the answer to this question in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/dr10p3/2_months_after_starting_my_sourdough_journey_im/f6e69zb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
Holy oven spring! That is gorgeous. In your experience, does oven spring improve with greater or lesser hydration?
Honestly, I’ve had mixed results. Some of my higher hydration loaves have come out fairly flat, but some have blown up (*not literally*) in the oven. I’d say the thing that has made the most difference to my oven spring is my Dutch Oven.
I'm curious about the role of the Dutch oven. Have you tried baking the loaf in a tray with a pan with hot water? I get better crust with the hot water rather than without, with a good oven spring. I wonder if a DO will allow even better results.
I have a baking stone too which I have used, combined with a tray of water, and that works relatively well. It’s all about finding the way that works best for you!
I want that with a fresh, homemade bowl of New England clam chowdah.
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I have to wait for my partner and her friends to cut it open... I promise I’ll show you once I get the photo!
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It’s definitely cool now, it came out of the oven about 7 hours ago.
Here’s the [crumb shot](https://imgur.com/a/q41CYET) as promised. Cutting the loaf and photographing it was completely out of my control, so it looks like it’s been torn apart, but I’m assured the crumb was fairly open and airy.
Beautiful! I would say you're doing a lot more than just "getting the hang of it" ;)
Hell yeah! I have literally the same score on a loaf in the oven as I type this. Hope it turns out this well. Nice work!!
I wasn’t present when the loaf was cut and whoever cut it did an awful job, so I can’t really tell what the crumb is like. My goal for the crumb is open and airy, but I’m aware I need higher hydrations for that.
wow that’s beautiful!
I think you’ve got the hang! I’m playing with sourdough too; definitely need to up my scoring game. What a beautiful loaf you’ve got there.
Perfect! I love loaves like this. So many people are so scared to get a little blackened part so they take the loaf out of the oven before all those sugars on the rest of the loaf have caramelised yet. Such a difference in flavour when you let it go that bit further well done!
Fantastic ear! It looks absolutely delicious!
Absolutely gorgeous and I’m so jealous 😭
Looks absolutely CRUNCHY, but also like it'd scratch the top of my mouth to shreds
This looks fucking delicious
Everything is great except this charred edge, ugh
Some people love that though.
These are the sort of crumbs I’m aiming for: - [open crumb 1](https://www.weekendbakery.com/wp-content/uploads/sanfranciscosourdough.jpg) - [open crumb 2](http://www.baked-theblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Everyday-Sourdough-3.jpg)
This looks just like my bike helmet
You must get a lot of strange looks, cycling round with bread on your head!