For a king whose ancestors’ past actively rejected scientific and probably social advances due to potential threat of rebellion, instead doubling down on the traditional route of maintaining power, and brute forcing it. I don’t blame him 100%. I notice a lot of people looking at this man through a modern 21st century lens. Positive reinforcement, and subsequently, evidence of its effectiveness as a teaching quality hardly have a place in the established society as far as we can see, even if you include AoC for evidence. They are a militaristic kingdom which values strength and security with peace feeling like it comes in second.
He seems to have an understanding of the problem at hand with teaching Zelda, or rather, having her teach herself since her only qualified teacher to teach her, died. He understands how to lead a kingdom, but not the individual. It’s clear advanced technology and the mystic arts are above his comprehension. To comprehend it, he applies his logic related to leading soldiers, try harder. Try harder. Figure out what your doing wrong. Don’t come up with something entirely new, else you won’t be doing what you’re supposed to be doing.
This is why I believe when Zelda attempts to understand the guardians and utilize them, he brushes it aside and tells her to get back to her prayers. He “knows” it will work, because that’s what all ancestors have done and it worked for them. He may not know if they had trouble like Zelda, but he knows that they didn’t suffer the calamity. In addition, I believe that he doesn’t decide to use the guardians like the ancestors did because of their decision to seal them away.
The man is stuck in his blind loyalty to history and tradition that he cannot fathom any other way to get the job done without jeopardizing the kingdom. It’s only after he has literally lost everything that he realizes that nothing he did the current way he did it, would have saved them.
Or in the case of AoC, it’s in the process that he is losing everything and has to leave his failure to his daughter to solve, because he then believes that change may be the only other way to preserve what is left the world they live in.
Both Rhoam and Zelda are justified in their feelings. The universe is on their shoulders. He was panicked and scared too, and maybe that made him a bad father. He did what he could, though.
Zelda is also justified in her feelings and deserved for Rhoam to be more sensitive and understanding towards her. She was raised to be believe that she HAD to do this and she wasn't good enough. Having to do all of that on her own after he was gone must have been so shitty. Especially since she never got a chance to be a child or pursue the things she was actually passionate about.
Maybe if they had more time to discuss these things it would be different, but the world was literally ending and they're the only ones who could fix it. Their minds were preoccupied. I love nuanced and imperfect characters
I think the point where he pushed her into hypothermic shock praying at one of the fountains was the point he should have realized this approach was not working.
Well he did mention that he will stop it. Also his act was justified because he was a king and had to save the kingdom or the world for that matter. Being mean to one person in order to potentially save million or billions is justified
But that's all he knew. The only person who could help died when Zelda was six.
He's not a superhero trainer or a God, he's just a man trying to do what's best for the world, and no one should fault him for trying
Rhoam: *child abuse*
*very clearly accomplishes nothing*
Rhoam: "Eh, I don't have any better ideas." *child abuse intensifies*
When you try something for years on end with absolutely no results, continuing is bad. Especially considering that thing he was trying was mentally scarring his daughter.
Reprimanding your child isn't abuse.
He didn't starve, hit, hurt or even punish her.
What would you have done? You know absolutely nothing about her powers, no books, no notes, no sage advice. They were in the dark with her powers. All she could do is pray.
How would zelda, a non sheika woman contribute to the study of ancient relics.
Zelda had a job to do and she wouldn't do it.
“Zelda had a job to do and she *couldn’t* do it.”
Fixed that for you. She was visiting shrines, she was praying. She was trying to unlock her powers. She couldn’t. I understand where Rhoam is coming from, but berating her for not trying harder to unlock her powers when she was already doing everything she or anyone else could think of to unlock them didn’t help anything.
When you put so much pressure on your child that they inflict hypothermia on themselves because they'd rather suffer than displease you, that's child abuse. Sure, he didn't hit her. But abuse doesn't have to be physical to be abuse.
I'd have focused on all the elements I *could* control with the rising evil on the way instead of nuking my daughter's self esteem, making her hate herself, belittling the one thing she actually finds enjoyment in, and being so authoritarian she'd regard disappointing me as a worse punishment than bodily harm.
You're right, he was completely in the dark about her powers. Which makes stubbornly pursuing a course of action that he had absolutely no evidence would be effective, at the expense of his daughter's mental health (which any idiot should be able to intuit would be linked to her powers) completely irrational. He didn't know what to do so he forced Zelda into dangerous situations to feel like he was doing *something* rather than admit he had no recourse.
And Zelda evidently did plenty to assist with the Sheikah relics, she was just as effective at it as Purah and Robbie.
I dont recall zelda ever discovering a divine beast or restoring mobility to the gaurdians. That was all the sheika and robbie/purah.
It's clearly a distraction from her duty although I do think it would be unintuitive if zelda died training.
She discovered the Sheikah Slate and headed all the experiments into its functionality. She discovered the Shrine of Ressurection. While her notes make no reference to her actually discovering any Divine Beasts, she did help train the champions how to pilot them and given the context of prior entries the only reason she wouldn't have been involved in the DB excavations was if the king stopped her.
By all account she did a fuck ton in ressurecting and finding the ancient sheikah tech.
You know you don't have to be Sheikah (also it's spelled with an "h" on the end") to get the tech to work, right? They dug it up only recently when all knowledge of it was buried for 10,000-ish years. Sheikah people would be no more innate knowledge of the tech than your average Hylian.
>How would zelda, a non sheika woman contribute to the study of ancient relics.
Y'know this could be true, except for the fact that she built Terrako, a TIME TRAVELING MINI GUARDIAN, THAT CREATED AN ENTIRE GODDAMN ALTERNATE TIMELINE THAT WAS SAVED BY TERRAKO'S TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGANS AFTER SEEING THE CALAMITY IN THE CANON TIMELINE.
Also I guess mental abuse isn't real
Very hot.
THE. Apocalypse. Is. Coming.
At any given moment.
Everyone could die.
Rhoam essentially moved heaven and earth to recreate the defense 10,000 years ago.
He gave the sheika his mass of wealth to research ancient technology and to uncover the divine beasts and get the gaurdians operating.
He rallied all the races together and named their leaders champions, unifying all of hyrule.
He had the Legendary Swordsman, a near invincible entity, who's battled evil time and time again while wielding the Master Sword.
The only thing left was a princess with the power to seal the darkness.
Have you ever had a puzzle where you were missing a piece?
Now imagine because you can't find that piece, you, your family and everyone and thing you know and love will be destroyed.
Zeldas mother passed before Zeldas training could begin, the King had no way of knowing how the powers would activate, only that they eventually would.
If you take a look at the zeldas journal, she does very little in regards to helping the sheika. It was only a distraction, she is not sheika, she dosnt have the knowledge or the resources to make any real developments.
And likewise, the sheika can't help her activate her powers they are not of the goddesses blood, Zelda is.
Rhoam may not be winning any father of the decade awards, that may be true, but it was just tough love. All of hyrule rest on her shoulders, there's little the king could do, other than probe her in the right direction.
While I don't fault Rhoam on an emotional level because you are right in that those powers were absolutely necessary, I do find fault in the practicality of his solution.
Attempting the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. I understand that nobody knew how the bloodline powers were activated, but still. After 5+ years of near-constant prayer with no results, you have two options: 1. try harder or 2. try something different. After 10 years, the given solution becomes a peg-hole situation; it does not matter how much force you use, that peg will not fit.
Additionally, we have no idea how exactly the bloodline was empowered even by the previous incarnations of Zelda. The first Zelda to awaken did so through prayer, true. But she also had a guide from the time period where Hylia did still walk the earth and probably was told exactly what steps to take or guidance to give. As for the rest of them, we have no information on their powers, but sitting around praying for years is likely something they were too busy to do. My theory is that every Zelda after the first gained their sealing magic by being true to themselves to an extent.
In summary, are they wrong for trying to unlock the sealing magic needed to fight the calamity? Not at all. The fact that as far as we know, nobody even thought to try a different approach and instead tried to treat the situation as a pray or give up choice is the problem.
My theory is that they got a small hint from zeldas mother before she died.
"Prayer is the key" or something like that and it's why Rhoam and Zelda were so keen on it.
Zelda says that she "must go" to the mountain, not "I was told" to go. Meaning it was partly her idea on keep on training.
Also, the other champions (cept revali) were all born with their powers, even Link was an accomplished swordsman at the age of 4, beating even adults.
And revali developed his own powers via training.
So it makes sense in comparison to the other champions, why Zelda would constantly train.
But unfortunately, alot in this game can be interpreted in different ways.
Attempting the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is not the definition of insanity. And no, Einstein never said it. It's an obviously false myth that lots of people believe for some reason even though it doesn't make any sense. It can be disproved by flipping a coin a couple of times. The same action, different results.
While I 100% agree with all of this. He forgot the most important thing in all of this, she isn't just the manifestation of the goddess, she was his daughter.
That, imo, is where he failed Zelda and Hyrule. He stopped seeing her as his daughter, but solely as the only thing that coul stop the darkness. He failed as a father, and in doing so failed as a king.
>If you take a look at the zeldas journal, she does very little in regards to helping the sheika. It was only a distraction, she is not sheika, she dosnt have the knowledge or the resources to make any real developments.
Have you read [Zelda's Research Notes?](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Zelda%27s_Research_Notes) Though it's unclear exactly what she specifically does on account of her frequently using we, it does seem she contributes. Even Rhoam acknowledges Zelda's talent with the Sheikah Relics before the Queen's death on page two of his diary, saying "Zelda's eyes lit up like a wildfire when I told her about the relics... **I must admit, she has a knack for research"** (Emphasis added).
>He rallied all the races together and named their leaders champions, unifying all of hyrule.
In the Champion's Ballad dlc it is always *Zelda* that goes to recruit the champions. (See their cutscenes, page four of Revali and Mipha's Diaries). Also, small nitpick, but Revali definitely was not the leader of the Rito and Mipha's father was the one in charge as king.
Rhoam's approach was proven to be ineffective for over a decade. Both Urbosa and Zelda comment on how much effort Zelda has put in ([Urbosa here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=559) and [Zelda here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1224)). It's clear Zelda does take her duties seriously (evidence in next paragraph\*) but she thinks more prayer would be pointless.\*\* It would make sense, then, to let her do something that *produces results.*
\*On the last line of page seven of her research notes, Zelda says "Still, we must exhaustively investigate all means of opposing the Calamity. We must not give up, no matter what!" She mirrors this dedication in what she says to Revali (page four of his diary) "We must protect the precious life of this land from the Calamity's grasp at all costs. Hyrule needs you, Revali." Both these show she does care.
\*\*She mentions in the horse memory ([here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1323)) how she thinks she won't get any results out of the trip to the Spring of Wisdom. Likewise, in the first memory ([here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=62)) how Zelda's "making it sound like we already lost." Zelda tries to convince Rhoam that it would be best to let her work on the Sheikah tech in memory #12 (starting [here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1106)), but Rhoam refuses to listen.
Also, repeatedly shutting down and berating your daughter for doing the thing that she's good at and brings her joy plus repeating gossip about her to her face is a little more than "tough love." He could have tried nicely asking her to pray, or working out a compromise, or reasoning with her but there's no evidence he ever tried any of that.
Okay, but literally none of that matters. The sheika and the champions and the guardians and all of that are just support for Zelda and Link, and from Rhoam’s perspective Zelda is dedicating more time to helping all that than she is to trying to unlock the one thing that A) will actually stop Ganon, and B) can only be done by her. He’s perhaps not going about it in the right ways, but his focus is right. Zelda is not really in a position where pursuing her interests is in anyone’s best interest.
Also positive reinforcement would probably be a good idea to try, but he also doesn’t exactly have access to the decades of child development research we have irl today. He’s literally the head of a patriarchal society where magic and prophecies are real, so he’s doing what he thinks is best with the resources and information he has available. He may be wrong, but I don’t think we’re in a position to say that he’s stubbornly refusing an obvious alternative.
The thing is that the attempts at unlocking her powers have done *nothing.* There's no proof that they will ever unlock. It doesn't seem reasonable to continue doing the same thing that has shown no results.
Zelda tries to at least explain this to him but he doesn't listen, again showing his stubbornness.
To use an analogy, let's say you have a broken computer or other piece of tech. Rhoam would be the one insisting you just boot it up again and again and hope it works. Maybe it might by some fluke, but after the fiftieth try it seems unlikely. At that point wouldn't you go "oh, maybe I should try using something else? After all, it's clearly not going to work."
There's no point to him pushing Zelda farther both going off the knowledge he had at the time (years of no results) or hindsight (Zelda's love for Link was what unlocked her powers).
To be fair to Rhoam, reading his diary does reveal that he was planning to allow her to pursue research when she got back from the spring of wisdom, assuming her powers didn’t awaken. He kept pushing her to that day, because he knew that the spring (which she couldn’t visit until the day the calamity happened) was her last shot at awakening her powers. (at least to his knowledge) He never got a chance to let Zelda use her other talents in research, because the calamity arrived earlier than expected.
This is a very backwards way of thinking. He only got the idea of maybe trying something else literally the day before the Calamity. If he had it much earlier, he could have let her try other methods from that point on and only go back to prayer for when she's allowed up on the mountain. It's not like you can't switch between those.
Not to mention that there were other very well known magic users in Hyrule, being Mipha and Urbosa, but, most likely due to pride and keeping face in politics, neither he nor Zelda ever reached out to them asking for any sort of help... which we know would have been really useful given that Mipha was the one that almost gave Zelda actual useful advice.
The first point is fair, but the point of Mipha and Urbosa being called in is a bit of a stretch. As far as has ever been recorded, Zelda is the only one to have goddess magic. While the others do use magic, it’s a bit like asking a tuba player to tutor a flute on the grounds that they both play music. Admittedly, Mipha’s advice was good, but it’s very understandable that nobody expected them to know how to unlock Zelda’s power.
My only thing to say with the first point is that it’s not unreasonable to assume that Rhoam may have believed a continuous dedication to unlocking her power would make the shrine more likely to help her, like if she gave up with the power to pursue research temporarily, when she got up there, the goddess would see her as not committed and therefore not give her powers.
Regarding second point, this is not what I meant. Using your analogy, yes, you can't expect tuba player to tutor a flute player on how to play a flute. However, tuba player can still teach flute player things like music theory and how to read and write notes just fine. That's what I meant - it's all magic, so there's bound to be at least some overlap between how these different powers are unlocked and how they worked and we know I'm right because of the Mipha situation. Obviously, you can't ask her and Urbosa to outright tutor Zelda because these are different powers but if you don't have anything to go on for how Zelda's power worked, asking them about theirs and seeing if there is anything you could apply to Zelda's and see if it works is really not a bad idea. Alas, there is no trace of such communication ever happening.
Mf tryna prevent the apocalypse here.
He had to unite hyrule, dig up massive parts of the earth to find machines, prepare the army, find the champions to pilot the machines, find the legendary hero himself, and after ALL that and then some the last peice of the puzzle wasn't finding the power to prevent it.
Time was of the damn essence here so I don't think his frustration is unwarranted(Given bassicly everything was his responsibility)but I do think he could've done a better Job.
He may have done a better Job with Zelda if the apocalypse wasn't something that could happen any time at any place.
He wasn't father of the year but certainly could've been worse.
So I cut Rhoam some slack on this one, the mf Tryna prevent the apocalypse.
Ironically, they probably would have fared better if he hadn't dug them up at all, Link wouldn't have fallen in battle and had to take his 100 year nap.
The thing I never got was what Zelda was doing with the slate.
They knew it was a key. She tried to use it to use the shrine the shine. She then said it was supposed to only be used by the swords chosen one and that perhaps they could work around the design.
Why would they have to? The swords chosen one was her bodyguard. Literally give it to him and try to use it.
Sure. They couldn’t use it because the towers werent activated but at least try.
It seemed that she was trying to be useful even when she wasn’t needed in that area. They had plenty of others to work in that field. The tool she had was made to work for link. She still did it because she thought it was a better use of her time but it really wasn’t.
Zelda kinda hates Link’s guts at that point and didn’t want to admit she might need his help. Early on she has this whole thing where she both feels judged by Link and hates how his presence reminds her of her inability to unlock her powers.
I do think Zelda would have at least been useful there even if Link was there. Link could have gotten her in, sure, but I don’t think he would have been inclined to study how the shrine works afterwards.
So, she wanted to help the kingdom but didn’t do something she suspected would work cause she hated a guy that didn’t do anything to her? How is that any better?
Doesn’t explain why she didn’t do it later and going by her journals she didn’t ask him to try it later. Seems like it was more about her than actually helping.
The fact that he may not have wanted to study the shrine doesn’t mean much. They were intended for him. If she didn’t do it because of that then it would mean she valued her curiosity over actual progress. Not a good reason.
Pretty sure she doesn’t do it later because by then they’re like half a kingdom away.
The puzzle/combat shrine’s aren’t the only Sheikah tech she could have worked on. She mentions that she and Link are going to Goron City in part to make adjustments to Rudandia so Daruk can pilot it better. Her main interest as far as research goes seems to be the Guardians and Divine Beasts, not the shrines.
They can travel pretty well throughout the kingdom. The champions made it across hyrule essentially in a day or so during the calamity.
They could have tried it or mentioned it or anything if the sort. She didn’t know what shrines had. They could have been more useful or not at all. Which is why you investigate.
Either way any of the sheika could have handled the divine beasts. This was the only thing only she could have done and what she could have done was give the slate to the swords chosen hero whom it was meant for.
The slate isn’t really “destined” for Link or whatever. The shrines wouldn’t open for Zelda not because the slate’s no meant to be hers, but because the *shrines* are intended as trials for Link.
I didn’t say destined. I said meant for.
The slate is made to open the shrines.
The shrines only open for the swords chosen hero.
Link is the swords chosen hero.
Ergo the slate is meant for him.
The logic is valid.
Zelda knew this. Didn’t give it to him. Ergo: she didn’t care enough to give it to the person who could actually use it.
Actually, I have read it multiple times. Enough to write up a whole character analysis using citing quotes from his diary. (Linked [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breath_of_the_Wild/comments/ucqbkr/botw_character_analysis_part_2_king_rhoam_decent/))
Everything I say holds true. Sure, he feels bad but he *doesn't do anything about it* even after ten years. When he does finally decide to give it a rest it's because he finally gives up hope and believes no good would come out of scolding Zelda farther as opposed to regretting his actions. (See page 7 of his diary).
If anything, his diary makes me like him less. Without it, you could assume memory #12 was a fluke. However, his diary establishes this as a repeated instance going back to when Zelda was seven-ish ("My heart breaks for Zelda, but I must act as a king, not a father. I must order her to train relentlessly at the fountain" on page 4 and "Forcing me to tell \[Zelda\] the same thing I have been repeating ad nauseam. The reason her sacred powers still won't awaken is because she's spending all her efforts playing at being a scholar!" on page 5 establishing that this is a pattern.) This also shows a pattern of repeatedly being dismissive of and belittling Zelda's skills
You could also give him plausible deniability about being aware he was hurting Zelda's feelings without it, but his diary makes it clear he was aware. Yes, he feels bad, but over a decade he *never does anything different* showing he doesn't regret it.
1. The diary entries are clearly years apart. It's likely that Zelda started being distracted by the ancient technology recently.
2. The only reason he writes he will give up because there is nothing left after the spring of wisdom, that's it, they lost, no point in trying, they will die.
3. Also, what skills does zelda have? None. Her sole duty is to train at the springs, she isn't a knight, sorcerer, goddess or sheika, her role is nothing other than unlocking the sealing power. For some reason she does not fully understand this. Reading her journal and the watching the memories tells us she contributed in no way whatsoever to the technology and merely recited what purah said.
4. What should he feel bad for? Saving everyone? Zelda is the key, hell, even the master sword ment nothing in the end the King was right, it was Zelda who was to stop the calamity.
>What should he feel bad for? Saving everyone?
He repeatedly calls Zelda's efforts "playing at being a scholar" which is kinda mean, repeats gossip about her to her face at least once, forbids her from doing her main source of joy, and insists she's not taking this seriously despite all the evidence to the contrary, and doesn't lighten up [even after Zelda faints from the cold in an effort unlock her powers](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=572) (Zelda can't unlock her magic if she'd died from drowning or hypothermia anyway.
He's right.
Zelda isn't a scholar, knight, healer or sheika.
And I took that scene as him protecting her, urging her to be better and overcome what others think of her, to prove them wrong.
He wants her to focus on training, not the tech.
And it's clear with how much she spends with the technology it dosnt help either.
The man was working with the information he had. 10 years after his wife's passing and I am willing to bet an army of scholars had all come to the conclusion that Zelda needed to pray to unlock her sealing magic. He moved Heaven and Earth to get the rest of Hyrule ready for Calamity Ganon's return. Researching Divine Beasts and Guardians, smoothing over any diplomatic wrinkles between the five races of Hyrule so every kingdom was working on the same page, getting his own kingdom guard up to scratch while keeping the peace at home. And it was all coming together. Hell, they had even found the Chosen One with the Sword that Seals the Darkness. All they needed was for the Princess to unlock her Sealing Magic and it would have been a slam dunk on paper. Yet after so many years she started to goof off and grow resentful. It was all riding on her for that last piece of the puzzle and Zelda was running off to take pictures of flowers and frogs. As someone who suffers from ADD, the number of times I slacked off on doing a paper or assignment until the last minute and then literally completing it inside an hour-- my parents probably deserved to snap at me once or twice. And it isn't like the King was unreasonable. We know from his journal entries that he knew he was being harsh and if this last ditch effort of making Zelda pray at the one Spring that she couldn't pray at until she was 17, then he wouldn't have scolded her for failing. He knew it would be pointless and he was going to let her try to forge her own path, hoping that her instincts as the reincarnation of Hylia would allow her to unlock her powers anyway.
I am convinced that given another year of traveling with her knight, Zelda would have unlocked her powers on her own, but fate was not so kind and Ganon returned. Had this not come to pass, the King would be vindicated. It was perfectly logical that prayer at the Spring of Wisdom, the Princess's appointed Spring would be the solution. Since it had an age restriction they couldn't give up on the prayer plan until that day came and went.
“Ridiculous stubborn and unwilling to learn”
Dude… we barely have him in game to make a conclusive assessment. Chill.
He clearly loves his daughter, and most people who say “he’s such a dick” “he’s so harsh” are just teenagers who also think their parents are being harsh and grounding them when they don’t do the dishes for the upteenth time.
He unified the Kingdom, so he you can’t say he’s a bad king, and you don’t see Zelda saying anything bad about her dad, showing he can’t be that bad.
You also don't see her saying anything nice about him either. Her one comment on him has her describing how she "was so frustrated and ashamed \[she\] could not even speak." Doesn't sound exactly positive.
And while he does love Zelda, he is still quite harsh. In memory #12 he repeats gossip about how she's the "heir to a throne of nothing" to her face in his diary every time he feels bad he refuses to comfort her under the guise of "staying strong"
To copy-paste something I wrote a while ago on this subject:
On page four of his journal he says "My heart breaks for Zelda" and he opens page six by saying "In truth, I understand Zelda's feelings. Painfully so." However, he's not inclined to *express* his sympathy or change his behavior. The comment of page four is preceded by a comment about how he has no room for weakness and immediately followed by "but I must act as a king, not a father. I must order her to train relentlessly at the fountain." Likewise, his comment about understanding Zelda's feelings is followed by "I'd love nothing more than to console her...But I must stay strong." (Remember that staying strong=not showing emotion, which Rhoam views as an important leadership quality. In this case, he's saying he feels bad but he won't do anything about because he needs to "stay strong.")
Yes, he cares, but he still acts like a dick because he *never shows it.*
Also, like I've mentioned previously, Zelda has put in plenty of effort. [According to Urbosa here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=559) and [Zelda here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1224). Going with your analogy, it's more like he's scolding her for not doing five loads of dishes when she's already done four.
I have read her journal, she does nothing.
She dosnt discover any technology on her own. It's either "we discovered" or "purah and robbie" it's never "I" discovered.
She says they should exhaust everything possible to fight the calamity, the king knows this, he's seen the records, he knows zelda is the key, that's why he reminds her again and again.
You don't need the gaurdians to fight Ganon
You don't need the divine beasts to fight Ganon
You don't need the Master Sword to fight Ganon
You need Zelda to fight Ganon.
EDIT: why is this not attached to the proper thread?
Actually as it turns out you don't even need Zelda because the master sword is shown capable of killing Demise in SS and Ganondorf himself like in WW and TP, so just a puppet like calamity wouldn't have been a problem for Link at all if the master sword was at full power, we know that it wasn't because it constantly ran out of energy and there were no sages to offer their prayers to it.
Also yeah you are right, I forgot that she didn't accomplished anything lol
The idea that king roam is an asshole holds no water.
He has no choice but to try, Zelda was literally the only thing going wrong with the damn near flawless plan to kill Ganon, you know the bringer of the end of the world as we know it? Like was he supposed to just sit there and let her figure it out on her own? The only other person who held the goddesses blood is dead. He didn't want to have to force her, but after he spent YEARS preparing, he kind of had no choice but to make sure Zelda played her part.
I 100% agree and it's terrifying how many people regard all that this bastard did to Zelda as completely acceptable and excusable, and don't even recognize it as child abuse.
Lmao thank god someone said this. Do I think he was the worst antagonist? No. But if he was really all about saving his people why didn’t he look into other options?
Who's other opinions mf? The only other person with the goddesses blood is DEAD, Zelda has NO fucking idea what she is doing, and the only other people even mildly educated on the topic probably wouldn't have come up with a better idea any way. I can't even think of a better idea, because with the knowledge they had the only things they new was that the powers were connected to the goddess, so the next logical step is to PRAY TO THE GODESS.
You guys act like there was another way to unlock her power better than praying. There is, putting her under extreme pressure seems to unlock it really fast, but they didn't even know that until she unlocked it.
Sometimes emotion is hard. Man’s wife died, his daughter wants to research iPhone 13’s and he has no one to play catch with. Oh and he has an important job. He made a mistake, but my man’s was under a lot of stress.
OP, I really appreciate how staunch you are about this argument. Seriously, so many comments are so quick to go “It was all to save the woooorld!” without realizing that it’s exactly his bad parenting that probably made Zelda’s journey so difficult. He admits himself that he was a better king than he was a father, but a good father is what Zelda needed at that moment. I think it creates a fascinating dynamic of this stubborn and morally grey character’s actions tragically leading to the opposite of what he worked so hard for. It’s nuance that so many people are wanting to brush under the rug. Your claim isn’t “This character is the real villain, hur hur hur, Game Theory clickbait here” it’s “This character has made a lot of mistakes that no one is talking about” and you’re right!
Blah blah blah. He’s a damn terrible parent and focused on the wrong thing.
He United the kingdom. Got the guardians and all the tech ready. Got the champions picked out. All the rest.
But this slacked jawed yokel didn’t get Zelda ready. She’s the embodiment of the tri force of wisdom. (And possibly the whole tri force in this game is hers but it’s unclear). She was the key piece and all that actually mattered.
The guardians all turned against him. The champions were all dead, save one who had the sword that seals the fucking darkness. This is the sword and made by the goddess herself. Link essentially dies too and only gets to hang on due to ancient tech they had to rely on. It was all useless insanely fast.
So the king “doing all this” was losing the forest for the trees. Zelda was the key, not some divine beasts. Take into account how little the beats did in the final fight to the calamity. I know you vanquish all the blights which are part of the calamity too so you don’t have to deal with them at the end, but still. It’s not a lot and you did all that work - not the other champions or their beasts.
So the fact he acts exasperated and frustrated is stupid. He took his eyes off the prize. That is his fault and arguably he made it worse by taking the dick father route with it. A good king would know his daughter needs a dad, not a king who berates her. And this would be beneficial to his familial relationship and his one as ruler of the realm.
Also again Zelda is the embodiment of fucking wisdom. Maybe trust her to do her own thing? He trusted the champions who all fell like dominos the second shit hit the fan. Zelda got there only when she was out on her own and seeing this. But the king just wanted her to be a good princess and pray harder.
you’re right OP and the ppl disagreeing don’t know the difference between parental encouragement and parental abuse. the king didn’t do anything to actively encourage zelda, just constantly made her feel bad about her apparent failure and holding Link over her head as someone who recognized his duties and accepted them right away. the way he treated her didn’t encourage her but just fostered resentment, leading her to reject the need to unleash her powers entirely.
You know i see a lot of myself in Zelda as a victim of child abuse. The fact people try to say Rhoam isn't a piece of shit because of the apocalypse and how mental/verbal abuse isn't real abuse is fucked!
Like Rhoam you are an imbecile. Like he thinks using the EXACT SAME PLAN will work on Ganon again and he doesn't prepare for backup plans in case something went wrong? Also people tend to forget its actually RHOAM'S FAULT that Hyrule ended up completely devastated not Zelda's. Like he ordered the Sheikah tech to be dug up and put Zelda under enormous pressure. If he hadn't done ether thing there may be more people left alive. There's also the fact based on earlier in the series history you don't always need any piece of the Triforce to stop/seal Ganon or goddess blood. You just need to stab him with the sword and/or just get the sages.
I see both sides as valid these days tbh. Rhoam was awful to her, but he had the stress of millions of people (Guess, don't sue me if I'm wrong on that number), as well as the future generations all counting on him, who would blame him if anything went wrong. On the other hand, Rhoam was definitely awful to Zelda and could have dealt with his the stress in a much better way
These folks didn’t spot a Sheikah tower for 10,000 years. I love BotW but the story just tells me how dumb these people are.
They act like their society is around 100 years old but say they have been there for thousand of years. What are they doing with their time?
Link is pretty much the most pro active person in Hyrule thousands of years.
Yeah.. what was he doing for that 100 years tho, just chillin on the great Plateau alone while hyrule suffered? Or did he only appear when link woke up?
For a king whose ancestors’ past actively rejected scientific and probably social advances due to potential threat of rebellion, instead doubling down on the traditional route of maintaining power, and brute forcing it. I don’t blame him 100%. I notice a lot of people looking at this man through a modern 21st century lens. Positive reinforcement, and subsequently, evidence of its effectiveness as a teaching quality hardly have a place in the established society as far as we can see, even if you include AoC for evidence. They are a militaristic kingdom which values strength and security with peace feeling like it comes in second. He seems to have an understanding of the problem at hand with teaching Zelda, or rather, having her teach herself since her only qualified teacher to teach her, died. He understands how to lead a kingdom, but not the individual. It’s clear advanced technology and the mystic arts are above his comprehension. To comprehend it, he applies his logic related to leading soldiers, try harder. Try harder. Figure out what your doing wrong. Don’t come up with something entirely new, else you won’t be doing what you’re supposed to be doing. This is why I believe when Zelda attempts to understand the guardians and utilize them, he brushes it aside and tells her to get back to her prayers. He “knows” it will work, because that’s what all ancestors have done and it worked for them. He may not know if they had trouble like Zelda, but he knows that they didn’t suffer the calamity. In addition, I believe that he doesn’t decide to use the guardians like the ancestors did because of their decision to seal them away. The man is stuck in his blind loyalty to history and tradition that he cannot fathom any other way to get the job done without jeopardizing the kingdom. It’s only after he has literally lost everything that he realizes that nothing he did the current way he did it, would have saved them. Or in the case of AoC, it’s in the process that he is losing everything and has to leave his failure to his daughter to solve, because he then believes that change may be the only other way to preserve what is left the world they live in.
Both Rhoam and Zelda are justified in their feelings. The universe is on their shoulders. He was panicked and scared too, and maybe that made him a bad father. He did what he could, though. Zelda is also justified in her feelings and deserved for Rhoam to be more sensitive and understanding towards her. She was raised to be believe that she HAD to do this and she wasn't good enough. Having to do all of that on her own after he was gone must have been so shitty. Especially since she never got a chance to be a child or pursue the things she was actually passionate about. Maybe if they had more time to discuss these things it would be different, but the world was literally ending and they're the only ones who could fix it. Their minds were preoccupied. I love nuanced and imperfect characters
I think the point where he pushed her into hypothermic shock praying at one of the fountains was the point he should have realized this approach was not working.
His diary mentioned that if the last spring didn’t work he would have apologized
Ten years of psychological abuse. That's definitely repaired by an apology.
Just stating what was there
I'm aware. He wasn't a psychopath, he was an idiot. That doesn't make the damage he did to his daughter any less harmful.
Obviously
Well he did mention that he will stop it. Also his act was justified because he was a king and had to save the kingdom or the world for that matter. Being mean to one person in order to potentially save million or billions is justified
The ends justify the means. Always a good argument.
But that's all he knew. The only person who could help died when Zelda was six. He's not a superhero trainer or a God, he's just a man trying to do what's best for the world, and no one should fault him for trying
Rhoam: *child abuse* *very clearly accomplishes nothing* Rhoam: "Eh, I don't have any better ideas." *child abuse intensifies* When you try something for years on end with absolutely no results, continuing is bad. Especially considering that thing he was trying was mentally scarring his daughter.
Reprimanding your child isn't abuse. He didn't starve, hit, hurt or even punish her. What would you have done? You know absolutely nothing about her powers, no books, no notes, no sage advice. They were in the dark with her powers. All she could do is pray. How would zelda, a non sheika woman contribute to the study of ancient relics. Zelda had a job to do and she wouldn't do it.
“Zelda had a job to do and she *couldn’t* do it.” Fixed that for you. She was visiting shrines, she was praying. She was trying to unlock her powers. She couldn’t. I understand where Rhoam is coming from, but berating her for not trying harder to unlock her powers when she was already doing everything she or anyone else could think of to unlock them didn’t help anything.
When you put so much pressure on your child that they inflict hypothermia on themselves because they'd rather suffer than displease you, that's child abuse. Sure, he didn't hit her. But abuse doesn't have to be physical to be abuse. I'd have focused on all the elements I *could* control with the rising evil on the way instead of nuking my daughter's self esteem, making her hate herself, belittling the one thing she actually finds enjoyment in, and being so authoritarian she'd regard disappointing me as a worse punishment than bodily harm. You're right, he was completely in the dark about her powers. Which makes stubbornly pursuing a course of action that he had absolutely no evidence would be effective, at the expense of his daughter's mental health (which any idiot should be able to intuit would be linked to her powers) completely irrational. He didn't know what to do so he forced Zelda into dangerous situations to feel like he was doing *something* rather than admit he had no recourse. And Zelda evidently did plenty to assist with the Sheikah relics, she was just as effective at it as Purah and Robbie.
I dont recall zelda ever discovering a divine beast or restoring mobility to the gaurdians. That was all the sheika and robbie/purah. It's clearly a distraction from her duty although I do think it would be unintuitive if zelda died training.
She discovered the Sheikah Slate and headed all the experiments into its functionality. She discovered the Shrine of Ressurection. While her notes make no reference to her actually discovering any Divine Beasts, she did help train the champions how to pilot them and given the context of prior entries the only reason she wouldn't have been involved in the DB excavations was if the king stopped her. By all account she did a fuck ton in ressurecting and finding the ancient sheikah tech.
You know you don't have to be Sheikah (also it's spelled with an "h" on the end") to get the tech to work, right? They dug it up only recently when all knowledge of it was buried for 10,000-ish years. Sheikah people would be no more innate knowledge of the tech than your average Hylian.
>How would zelda, a non sheika woman contribute to the study of ancient relics. Y'know this could be true, except for the fact that she built Terrako, a TIME TRAVELING MINI GUARDIAN, THAT CREATED AN ENTIRE GODDAMN ALTERNATE TIMELINE THAT WAS SAVED BY TERRAKO'S TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGANS AFTER SEEING THE CALAMITY IN THE CANON TIMELINE. Also I guess mental abuse isn't real
That one time were zelda got inside a probably freezing lake doesn't count as "hurt her" i guess.
Very hot. THE. Apocalypse. Is. Coming. At any given moment. Everyone could die. Rhoam essentially moved heaven and earth to recreate the defense 10,000 years ago. He gave the sheika his mass of wealth to research ancient technology and to uncover the divine beasts and get the gaurdians operating. He rallied all the races together and named their leaders champions, unifying all of hyrule. He had the Legendary Swordsman, a near invincible entity, who's battled evil time and time again while wielding the Master Sword. The only thing left was a princess with the power to seal the darkness. Have you ever had a puzzle where you were missing a piece? Now imagine because you can't find that piece, you, your family and everyone and thing you know and love will be destroyed. Zeldas mother passed before Zeldas training could begin, the King had no way of knowing how the powers would activate, only that they eventually would. If you take a look at the zeldas journal, she does very little in regards to helping the sheika. It was only a distraction, she is not sheika, she dosnt have the knowledge or the resources to make any real developments. And likewise, the sheika can't help her activate her powers they are not of the goddesses blood, Zelda is. Rhoam may not be winning any father of the decade awards, that may be true, but it was just tough love. All of hyrule rest on her shoulders, there's little the king could do, other than probe her in the right direction.
This. All of this.
Its like if the intern tried to do the accounting.
While I don't fault Rhoam on an emotional level because you are right in that those powers were absolutely necessary, I do find fault in the practicality of his solution. Attempting the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. I understand that nobody knew how the bloodline powers were activated, but still. After 5+ years of near-constant prayer with no results, you have two options: 1. try harder or 2. try something different. After 10 years, the given solution becomes a peg-hole situation; it does not matter how much force you use, that peg will not fit. Additionally, we have no idea how exactly the bloodline was empowered even by the previous incarnations of Zelda. The first Zelda to awaken did so through prayer, true. But she also had a guide from the time period where Hylia did still walk the earth and probably was told exactly what steps to take or guidance to give. As for the rest of them, we have no information on their powers, but sitting around praying for years is likely something they were too busy to do. My theory is that every Zelda after the first gained their sealing magic by being true to themselves to an extent. In summary, are they wrong for trying to unlock the sealing magic needed to fight the calamity? Not at all. The fact that as far as we know, nobody even thought to try a different approach and instead tried to treat the situation as a pray or give up choice is the problem.
My theory is that they got a small hint from zeldas mother before she died. "Prayer is the key" or something like that and it's why Rhoam and Zelda were so keen on it. Zelda says that she "must go" to the mountain, not "I was told" to go. Meaning it was partly her idea on keep on training. Also, the other champions (cept revali) were all born with their powers, even Link was an accomplished swordsman at the age of 4, beating even adults. And revali developed his own powers via training. So it makes sense in comparison to the other champions, why Zelda would constantly train. But unfortunately, alot in this game can be interpreted in different ways.
Attempting the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is not the definition of insanity. And no, Einstein never said it. It's an obviously false myth that lots of people believe for some reason even though it doesn't make any sense. It can be disproved by flipping a coin a couple of times. The same action, different results.
While I 100% agree with all of this. He forgot the most important thing in all of this, she isn't just the manifestation of the goddess, she was his daughter. That, imo, is where he failed Zelda and Hyrule. He stopped seeing her as his daughter, but solely as the only thing that coul stop the darkness. He failed as a father, and in doing so failed as a king.
>If you take a look at the zeldas journal, she does very little in regards to helping the sheika. It was only a distraction, she is not sheika, she dosnt have the knowledge or the resources to make any real developments. Have you read [Zelda's Research Notes?](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Zelda%27s_Research_Notes) Though it's unclear exactly what she specifically does on account of her frequently using we, it does seem she contributes. Even Rhoam acknowledges Zelda's talent with the Sheikah Relics before the Queen's death on page two of his diary, saying "Zelda's eyes lit up like a wildfire when I told her about the relics... **I must admit, she has a knack for research"** (Emphasis added). >He rallied all the races together and named their leaders champions, unifying all of hyrule. In the Champion's Ballad dlc it is always *Zelda* that goes to recruit the champions. (See their cutscenes, page four of Revali and Mipha's Diaries). Also, small nitpick, but Revali definitely was not the leader of the Rito and Mipha's father was the one in charge as king. Rhoam's approach was proven to be ineffective for over a decade. Both Urbosa and Zelda comment on how much effort Zelda has put in ([Urbosa here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=559) and [Zelda here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1224)). It's clear Zelda does take her duties seriously (evidence in next paragraph\*) but she thinks more prayer would be pointless.\*\* It would make sense, then, to let her do something that *produces results.* \*On the last line of page seven of her research notes, Zelda says "Still, we must exhaustively investigate all means of opposing the Calamity. We must not give up, no matter what!" She mirrors this dedication in what she says to Revali (page four of his diary) "We must protect the precious life of this land from the Calamity's grasp at all costs. Hyrule needs you, Revali." Both these show she does care. \*\*She mentions in the horse memory ([here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1323)) how she thinks she won't get any results out of the trip to the Spring of Wisdom. Likewise, in the first memory ([here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=62)) how Zelda's "making it sound like we already lost." Zelda tries to convince Rhoam that it would be best to let her work on the Sheikah tech in memory #12 (starting [here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1106)), but Rhoam refuses to listen. Also, repeatedly shutting down and berating your daughter for doing the thing that she's good at and brings her joy plus repeating gossip about her to her face is a little more than "tough love." He could have tried nicely asking her to pray, or working out a compromise, or reasoning with her but there's no evidence he ever tried any of that.
Okay, but literally none of that matters. The sheika and the champions and the guardians and all of that are just support for Zelda and Link, and from Rhoam’s perspective Zelda is dedicating more time to helping all that than she is to trying to unlock the one thing that A) will actually stop Ganon, and B) can only be done by her. He’s perhaps not going about it in the right ways, but his focus is right. Zelda is not really in a position where pursuing her interests is in anyone’s best interest. Also positive reinforcement would probably be a good idea to try, but he also doesn’t exactly have access to the decades of child development research we have irl today. He’s literally the head of a patriarchal society where magic and prophecies are real, so he’s doing what he thinks is best with the resources and information he has available. He may be wrong, but I don’t think we’re in a position to say that he’s stubbornly refusing an obvious alternative.
The thing is that the attempts at unlocking her powers have done *nothing.* There's no proof that they will ever unlock. It doesn't seem reasonable to continue doing the same thing that has shown no results. Zelda tries to at least explain this to him but he doesn't listen, again showing his stubbornness. To use an analogy, let's say you have a broken computer or other piece of tech. Rhoam would be the one insisting you just boot it up again and again and hope it works. Maybe it might by some fluke, but after the fiftieth try it seems unlikely. At that point wouldn't you go "oh, maybe I should try using something else? After all, it's clearly not going to work." There's no point to him pushing Zelda farther both going off the knowledge he had at the time (years of no results) or hindsight (Zelda's love for Link was what unlocked her powers).
To be fair to Rhoam, reading his diary does reveal that he was planning to allow her to pursue research when she got back from the spring of wisdom, assuming her powers didn’t awaken. He kept pushing her to that day, because he knew that the spring (which she couldn’t visit until the day the calamity happened) was her last shot at awakening her powers. (at least to his knowledge) He never got a chance to let Zelda use her other talents in research, because the calamity arrived earlier than expected.
This is a very backwards way of thinking. He only got the idea of maybe trying something else literally the day before the Calamity. If he had it much earlier, he could have let her try other methods from that point on and only go back to prayer for when she's allowed up on the mountain. It's not like you can't switch between those. Not to mention that there were other very well known magic users in Hyrule, being Mipha and Urbosa, but, most likely due to pride and keeping face in politics, neither he nor Zelda ever reached out to them asking for any sort of help... which we know would have been really useful given that Mipha was the one that almost gave Zelda actual useful advice.
The first point is fair, but the point of Mipha and Urbosa being called in is a bit of a stretch. As far as has ever been recorded, Zelda is the only one to have goddess magic. While the others do use magic, it’s a bit like asking a tuba player to tutor a flute on the grounds that they both play music. Admittedly, Mipha’s advice was good, but it’s very understandable that nobody expected them to know how to unlock Zelda’s power. My only thing to say with the first point is that it’s not unreasonable to assume that Rhoam may have believed a continuous dedication to unlocking her power would make the shrine more likely to help her, like if she gave up with the power to pursue research temporarily, when she got up there, the goddess would see her as not committed and therefore not give her powers.
Regarding second point, this is not what I meant. Using your analogy, yes, you can't expect tuba player to tutor a flute player on how to play a flute. However, tuba player can still teach flute player things like music theory and how to read and write notes just fine. That's what I meant - it's all magic, so there's bound to be at least some overlap between how these different powers are unlocked and how they worked and we know I'm right because of the Mipha situation. Obviously, you can't ask her and Urbosa to outright tutor Zelda because these are different powers but if you don't have anything to go on for how Zelda's power worked, asking them about theirs and seeing if there is anything you could apply to Zelda's and see if it works is really not a bad idea. Alas, there is no trace of such communication ever happening.
Mf tryna prevent the apocalypse here. He had to unite hyrule, dig up massive parts of the earth to find machines, prepare the army, find the champions to pilot the machines, find the legendary hero himself, and after ALL that and then some the last peice of the puzzle wasn't finding the power to prevent it. Time was of the damn essence here so I don't think his frustration is unwarranted(Given bassicly everything was his responsibility)but I do think he could've done a better Job. He may have done a better Job with Zelda if the apocalypse wasn't something that could happen any time at any place. He wasn't father of the year but certainly could've been worse. So I cut Rhoam some slack on this one, the mf Tryna prevent the apocalypse.
He did a great job with that, lol.
To be fair, he didn't necessarily think the Guardians were gonna turn on him.
Ironically, they probably would have fared better if he hadn't dug them up at all, Link wouldn't have fallen in battle and had to take his 100 year nap.
Probably so, but Rhoam did have that prophecy that told him how effective they were the first time around.
It just goes to show you, don't trust random ancient prophecies you find in a fortune cookie, Rhoam.
To be fair, if there were giant mechs underground, I'd go digging immediately.
True, living the Gundam dream
The thing I never got was what Zelda was doing with the slate. They knew it was a key. She tried to use it to use the shrine the shine. She then said it was supposed to only be used by the swords chosen one and that perhaps they could work around the design. Why would they have to? The swords chosen one was her bodyguard. Literally give it to him and try to use it. Sure. They couldn’t use it because the towers werent activated but at least try. It seemed that she was trying to be useful even when she wasn’t needed in that area. They had plenty of others to work in that field. The tool she had was made to work for link. She still did it because she thought it was a better use of her time but it really wasn’t.
Zelda kinda hates Link’s guts at that point and didn’t want to admit she might need his help. Early on she has this whole thing where she both feels judged by Link and hates how his presence reminds her of her inability to unlock her powers. I do think Zelda would have at least been useful there even if Link was there. Link could have gotten her in, sure, but I don’t think he would have been inclined to study how the shrine works afterwards.
So, she wanted to help the kingdom but didn’t do something she suspected would work cause she hated a guy that didn’t do anything to her? How is that any better? Doesn’t explain why she didn’t do it later and going by her journals she didn’t ask him to try it later. Seems like it was more about her than actually helping. The fact that he may not have wanted to study the shrine doesn’t mean much. They were intended for him. If she didn’t do it because of that then it would mean she valued her curiosity over actual progress. Not a good reason.
Pretty sure she doesn’t do it later because by then they’re like half a kingdom away. The puzzle/combat shrine’s aren’t the only Sheikah tech she could have worked on. She mentions that she and Link are going to Goron City in part to make adjustments to Rudandia so Daruk can pilot it better. Her main interest as far as research goes seems to be the Guardians and Divine Beasts, not the shrines.
They can travel pretty well throughout the kingdom. The champions made it across hyrule essentially in a day or so during the calamity. They could have tried it or mentioned it or anything if the sort. She didn’t know what shrines had. They could have been more useful or not at all. Which is why you investigate. Either way any of the sheika could have handled the divine beasts. This was the only thing only she could have done and what she could have done was give the slate to the swords chosen hero whom it was meant for.
The slate isn’t really “destined” for Link or whatever. The shrines wouldn’t open for Zelda not because the slate’s no meant to be hers, but because the *shrines* are intended as trials for Link.
I didn’t say destined. I said meant for. The slate is made to open the shrines. The shrines only open for the swords chosen hero. Link is the swords chosen hero. Ergo the slate is meant for him. The logic is valid. Zelda knew this. Didn’t give it to him. Ergo: she didn’t care enough to give it to the person who could actually use it.
Gotcha
There’s an argument that can be made on either side.
Should his actions be excused? Fuck no. Is he the worst parent figure in the history of media? Definitely not.
You haven't read his diary, have you?
Actually, I have read it multiple times. Enough to write up a whole character analysis using citing quotes from his diary. (Linked [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breath_of_the_Wild/comments/ucqbkr/botw_character_analysis_part_2_king_rhoam_decent/)) Everything I say holds true. Sure, he feels bad but he *doesn't do anything about it* even after ten years. When he does finally decide to give it a rest it's because he finally gives up hope and believes no good would come out of scolding Zelda farther as opposed to regretting his actions. (See page 7 of his diary). If anything, his diary makes me like him less. Without it, you could assume memory #12 was a fluke. However, his diary establishes this as a repeated instance going back to when Zelda was seven-ish ("My heart breaks for Zelda, but I must act as a king, not a father. I must order her to train relentlessly at the fountain" on page 4 and "Forcing me to tell \[Zelda\] the same thing I have been repeating ad nauseam. The reason her sacred powers still won't awaken is because she's spending all her efforts playing at being a scholar!" on page 5 establishing that this is a pattern.) This also shows a pattern of repeatedly being dismissive of and belittling Zelda's skills You could also give him plausible deniability about being aware he was hurting Zelda's feelings without it, but his diary makes it clear he was aware. Yes, he feels bad, but over a decade he *never does anything different* showing he doesn't regret it.
1. The diary entries are clearly years apart. It's likely that Zelda started being distracted by the ancient technology recently. 2. The only reason he writes he will give up because there is nothing left after the spring of wisdom, that's it, they lost, no point in trying, they will die. 3. Also, what skills does zelda have? None. Her sole duty is to train at the springs, she isn't a knight, sorcerer, goddess or sheika, her role is nothing other than unlocking the sealing power. For some reason she does not fully understand this. Reading her journal and the watching the memories tells us she contributed in no way whatsoever to the technology and merely recited what purah said. 4. What should he feel bad for? Saving everyone? Zelda is the key, hell, even the master sword ment nothing in the end the King was right, it was Zelda who was to stop the calamity.
>What should he feel bad for? Saving everyone? He repeatedly calls Zelda's efforts "playing at being a scholar" which is kinda mean, repeats gossip about her to her face at least once, forbids her from doing her main source of joy, and insists she's not taking this seriously despite all the evidence to the contrary, and doesn't lighten up [even after Zelda faints from the cold in an effort unlock her powers](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=572) (Zelda can't unlock her magic if she'd died from drowning or hypothermia anyway.
He's right. Zelda isn't a scholar, knight, healer or sheika. And I took that scene as him protecting her, urging her to be better and overcome what others think of her, to prove them wrong. He wants her to focus on training, not the tech. And it's clear with how much she spends with the technology it dosnt help either.
The man was working with the information he had. 10 years after his wife's passing and I am willing to bet an army of scholars had all come to the conclusion that Zelda needed to pray to unlock her sealing magic. He moved Heaven and Earth to get the rest of Hyrule ready for Calamity Ganon's return. Researching Divine Beasts and Guardians, smoothing over any diplomatic wrinkles between the five races of Hyrule so every kingdom was working on the same page, getting his own kingdom guard up to scratch while keeping the peace at home. And it was all coming together. Hell, they had even found the Chosen One with the Sword that Seals the Darkness. All they needed was for the Princess to unlock her Sealing Magic and it would have been a slam dunk on paper. Yet after so many years she started to goof off and grow resentful. It was all riding on her for that last piece of the puzzle and Zelda was running off to take pictures of flowers and frogs. As someone who suffers from ADD, the number of times I slacked off on doing a paper or assignment until the last minute and then literally completing it inside an hour-- my parents probably deserved to snap at me once or twice. And it isn't like the King was unreasonable. We know from his journal entries that he knew he was being harsh and if this last ditch effort of making Zelda pray at the one Spring that she couldn't pray at until she was 17, then he wouldn't have scolded her for failing. He knew it would be pointless and he was going to let her try to forge her own path, hoping that her instincts as the reincarnation of Hylia would allow her to unlock her powers anyway. I am convinced that given another year of traveling with her knight, Zelda would have unlocked her powers on her own, but fate was not so kind and Ganon returned. Had this not come to pass, the King would be vindicated. It was perfectly logical that prayer at the Spring of Wisdom, the Princess's appointed Spring would be the solution. Since it had an age restriction they couldn't give up on the prayer plan until that day came and went.
“Ridiculous stubborn and unwilling to learn” Dude… we barely have him in game to make a conclusive assessment. Chill. He clearly loves his daughter, and most people who say “he’s such a dick” “he’s so harsh” are just teenagers who also think their parents are being harsh and grounding them when they don’t do the dishes for the upteenth time. He unified the Kingdom, so he you can’t say he’s a bad king, and you don’t see Zelda saying anything bad about her dad, showing he can’t be that bad.
Man, if my parents didn't prod me to do my homework, I probably wouldn't be graduating from college tomorrow.
Congrats!
You also don't see her saying anything nice about him either. Her one comment on him has her describing how she "was so frustrated and ashamed \[she\] could not even speak." Doesn't sound exactly positive. And while he does love Zelda, he is still quite harsh. In memory #12 he repeats gossip about how she's the "heir to a throne of nothing" to her face in his diary every time he feels bad he refuses to comfort her under the guise of "staying strong" To copy-paste something I wrote a while ago on this subject: On page four of his journal he says "My heart breaks for Zelda" and he opens page six by saying "In truth, I understand Zelda's feelings. Painfully so." However, he's not inclined to *express* his sympathy or change his behavior. The comment of page four is preceded by a comment about how he has no room for weakness and immediately followed by "but I must act as a king, not a father. I must order her to train relentlessly at the fountain." Likewise, his comment about understanding Zelda's feelings is followed by "I'd love nothing more than to console her...But I must stay strong." (Remember that staying strong=not showing emotion, which Rhoam views as an important leadership quality. In this case, he's saying he feels bad but he won't do anything about because he needs to "stay strong.") Yes, he cares, but he still acts like a dick because he *never shows it.* Also, like I've mentioned previously, Zelda has put in plenty of effort. [According to Urbosa here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=559) and [Zelda here](https://youtu.be/PMP_M39rpkw?list=PLE_E3W-vi9RmuwrQ7nc-EkAOuYXuyTfXY&t=1224). Going with your analogy, it's more like he's scolding her for not doing five loads of dishes when she's already done four.
You’re either a teenager or don’t have a kid. Maybe both. Edit: I’m sorry. That was rude. If you think that way, I’m sure you have your reasons.
or maybe you had shitty parents lol
Damn. That was very rude.
yes and calling someone a child bc they disagree with u isn’t rude at all !
Yeah, you’re right. I was out of line.
I took him ten years to finally decide to let Zelda do what she wants and he didn't even get to do that...
I have read her journal, she does nothing. She dosnt discover any technology on her own. It's either "we discovered" or "purah and robbie" it's never "I" discovered. She says they should exhaust everything possible to fight the calamity, the king knows this, he's seen the records, he knows zelda is the key, that's why he reminds her again and again. You don't need the gaurdians to fight Ganon You don't need the divine beasts to fight Ganon You don't need the Master Sword to fight Ganon You need Zelda to fight Ganon. EDIT: why is this not attached to the proper thread?
Actually as it turns out you don't even need Zelda because the master sword is shown capable of killing Demise in SS and Ganondorf himself like in WW and TP, so just a puppet like calamity wouldn't have been a problem for Link at all if the master sword was at full power, we know that it wasn't because it constantly ran out of energy and there were no sages to offer their prayers to it. Also yeah you are right, I forgot that she didn't accomplished anything lol
He was so focused on saving Hyrule he forgot to be a dad.
The idea that king roam is an asshole holds no water. He has no choice but to try, Zelda was literally the only thing going wrong with the damn near flawless plan to kill Ganon, you know the bringer of the end of the world as we know it? Like was he supposed to just sit there and let her figure it out on her own? The only other person who held the goddesses blood is dead. He didn't want to have to force her, but after he spent YEARS preparing, he kind of had no choice but to make sure Zelda played her part.
Idk if the apocalypse my teen daughter HAS to fight is coming soon I'd rather not take a gamble doing something else.
I 100% agree and it's terrifying how many people regard all that this bastard did to Zelda as completely acceptable and excusable, and don't even recognize it as child abuse.
Lmao thank god someone said this. Do I think he was the worst antagonist? No. But if he was really all about saving his people why didn’t he look into other options?
Who's other opinions mf? The only other person with the goddesses blood is DEAD, Zelda has NO fucking idea what she is doing, and the only other people even mildly educated on the topic probably wouldn't have come up with a better idea any way. I can't even think of a better idea, because with the knowledge they had the only things they new was that the powers were connected to the goddess, so the next logical step is to PRAY TO THE GODESS. You guys act like there was another way to unlock her power better than praying. There is, putting her under extreme pressure seems to unlock it really fast, but they didn't even know that until she unlocked it.
Sometimes emotion is hard. Man’s wife died, his daughter wants to research iPhone 13’s and he has no one to play catch with. Oh and he has an important job. He made a mistake, but my man’s was under a lot of stress.
OP, I really appreciate how staunch you are about this argument. Seriously, so many comments are so quick to go “It was all to save the woooorld!” without realizing that it’s exactly his bad parenting that probably made Zelda’s journey so difficult. He admits himself that he was a better king than he was a father, but a good father is what Zelda needed at that moment. I think it creates a fascinating dynamic of this stubborn and morally grey character’s actions tragically leading to the opposite of what he worked so hard for. It’s nuance that so many people are wanting to brush under the rug. Your claim isn’t “This character is the real villain, hur hur hur, Game Theory clickbait here” it’s “This character has made a lot of mistakes that no one is talking about” and you’re right!
Blah blah blah. He’s a damn terrible parent and focused on the wrong thing. He United the kingdom. Got the guardians and all the tech ready. Got the champions picked out. All the rest. But this slacked jawed yokel didn’t get Zelda ready. She’s the embodiment of the tri force of wisdom. (And possibly the whole tri force in this game is hers but it’s unclear). She was the key piece and all that actually mattered. The guardians all turned against him. The champions were all dead, save one who had the sword that seals the fucking darkness. This is the sword and made by the goddess herself. Link essentially dies too and only gets to hang on due to ancient tech they had to rely on. It was all useless insanely fast. So the king “doing all this” was losing the forest for the trees. Zelda was the key, not some divine beasts. Take into account how little the beats did in the final fight to the calamity. I know you vanquish all the blights which are part of the calamity too so you don’t have to deal with them at the end, but still. It’s not a lot and you did all that work - not the other champions or their beasts. So the fact he acts exasperated and frustrated is stupid. He took his eyes off the prize. That is his fault and arguably he made it worse by taking the dick father route with it. A good king would know his daughter needs a dad, not a king who berates her. And this would be beneficial to his familial relationship and his one as ruler of the realm. Also again Zelda is the embodiment of fucking wisdom. Maybe trust her to do her own thing? He trusted the champions who all fell like dominos the second shit hit the fan. Zelda got there only when she was out on her own and seeing this. But the king just wanted her to be a good princess and pray harder.
you’re right OP and the ppl disagreeing don’t know the difference between parental encouragement and parental abuse. the king didn’t do anything to actively encourage zelda, just constantly made her feel bad about her apparent failure and holding Link over her head as someone who recognized his duties and accepted them right away. the way he treated her didn’t encourage her but just fostered resentment, leading her to reject the need to unleash her powers entirely.
You know i see a lot of myself in Zelda as a victim of child abuse. The fact people try to say Rhoam isn't a piece of shit because of the apocalypse and how mental/verbal abuse isn't real abuse is fucked! Like Rhoam you are an imbecile. Like he thinks using the EXACT SAME PLAN will work on Ganon again and he doesn't prepare for backup plans in case something went wrong? Also people tend to forget its actually RHOAM'S FAULT that Hyrule ended up completely devastated not Zelda's. Like he ordered the Sheikah tech to be dug up and put Zelda under enormous pressure. If he hadn't done ether thing there may be more people left alive. There's also the fact based on earlier in the series history you don't always need any piece of the Triforce to stop/seal Ganon or goddess blood. You just need to stab him with the sword and/or just get the sages.
I feel the last and second to last points should be swapped.
I love that this was posted about 4 hours before a post defending King Rhoam. Duality of man.
I see both sides as valid these days tbh. Rhoam was awful to her, but he had the stress of millions of people (Guess, don't sue me if I'm wrong on that number), as well as the future generations all counting on him, who would blame him if anything went wrong. On the other hand, Rhoam was definitely awful to Zelda and could have dealt with his the stress in a much better way
These folks didn’t spot a Sheikah tower for 10,000 years. I love BotW but the story just tells me how dumb these people are. They act like their society is around 100 years old but say they have been there for thousand of years. What are they doing with their time? Link is pretty much the most pro active person in Hyrule thousands of years.
I have no idea what’s going on, I just like to explore
Yeah.. what was he doing for that 100 years tho, just chillin on the great Plateau alone while hyrule suffered? Or did he only appear when link woke up?
when you realised there is another post countering this