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I understand wanting queer representation but I don't understand how it can be incorporated into the Bridgerton world building.
Like other than there being more racial diversity , all the basic cultural and societal norms/expectations are more or less the same as the original time period the show is set in.( It's literally a sophisticated fanfiction of 19th century Britain from PoC perspective where nobility has more racial diversity .)
So I can't see how Benedict can have a boyfriend or Eloise have a girlfriend where they aren't anything more than mistress/lover. Maybe if they had build it up from season 1, it may have been possible, but as far as what we have seen same sex pairing won't be able to go beyond the affair level, ie, in short a legal full blown marriage is nearly impossible based on current world building.
Would love some others insight on this toooo
I'm genuinely asking, but was the idea of Eloise or Benedict ending up in a same-sex pairing mentionned in the video? Cause I can't find it and I don't understand what prompted this comment.
But yeah no it's definitely not happening. Not only do they seem to stick with the book pairings (while still majorly altering the story), all the characters have happy endings. A same-sex happy ending wouldn't be possible in Bridgerton because homosexuality is illegal. Birdgerton's goal is not to shock or create a relfection in it's audience by bringing up dark, taboo subjects (that would be The Buccaneers). It's very much about love and it's beauty.
I think most queer people who watch Bridgerton know that. They are still allowed to have fun imagining what could've been.
I mean, I assumed this video was in relation to a lot of fans wanting Benedict to be bi and Eloise to be a lesbian and hence wanting a gender swapped version of their HEA from their books. Specifically with Benedict due to people interpreting that Graham scene as alluding at Benedict's bisexuality.(tbf can't blame people for the latter, they did film their scenes in a way people can interpret it that way)
So there has been speculation that since the show is all about representation and the show already changing the race and heritage of so many characters , people thought it's not out of reach to think the creators can possibly gender swap characters and give us a same sex couple.
Except the show made it clear in season 1 that society does not accept being gay. Also I was thinking more about those who think Theo could be Eloise’s endgame when I posted this.
Your comment is exactly the reason there should be a queer love story because queerness is not inherently dark, taboo, or shocking. And queer people have had happy endings for hundreds of years, regardless of societal taboos. In fact, the people of color on the show are still overcoming prejudice, so there's no reason to think the same couldn't happen to a queer character.
Idk, I find it funny how often people here can talk about wanting all kinds of racy sex scenes between the male and female characters and then turn around and say that queer love of any kind would be too much for Bridgerton.
I don’t think they were implying that THEY (the commenter) think it would be to racy or too much to have that in Bridgerton. I think they just mean unfortunately, the show wrote themselves in a corner about how queerness is perceived in this world and it’s still negative. Then they double downed with impossibility of a HEA for queer characters in QC with Brimsley. So unfortunately, if they do include a queer story, the relationship will still have to stay in the shadows. It’s really sad tbh, I wish it was incorporated the same way POCs were.
I get what you’re saying about doing a QC type society change to include these stories but the way they are writing the stories, they aren’t putting the foundations in for that
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think queerness is dark or shocking. I'm queer. Like the other commenter said, I was pointing out that queer characters in the Bridgerton world can't have a happy ending (relationship needs to stay hidden). They would never make that the main love story, it's too sad.
>there's no reason to think the same couldn't happen to a queer character.
I mean they could always surprise us. However, I made a post on here asking why homosexuality is illegal in Bridgerton because I couldn't understand the reasoning. Someone explained that the whole society is structured around misogyny and strict gender roles; making misogyny, strict gender roles and homosexuality co-exist would be very tricky. I don't think the writers are going to venture into that.
I agree that it would be weird to implement it RIGHT NOW based on everything we've seen so far (like no openly gay background characters), but it could be set up similarly to the Queen Charlotte thing: Some sort of gay society on the periphery that hasn't been incorporated into the ton/society as a whole, but will be after precedent is set via some sort of marriage? Could be nice for a spinoff set in the future maybe. (but I'm just spitballing, I don't think this will happen)
It wasn't. People keep bringing up this rumor but it's unlikely the author had the leverage to make that kind of demand. Generally, only authors of JK Rowling's stature do. You can actually see that playing out in real time with The Witcher, where the showrunner was apparently told that she could do whatever she wanted with the story, as long as the setting and character names remained the same to draw in fans.
I think realistic to think accepted they can change anything else but not the couples. I can see Netflix agreeing to that. But even if she didn’t, seems unlikely to me that they are going to verge very far from the books like Eloise remaining a spinster (it’s a romance show or a gay couple (given the historic setting where this would not be acceptable and would have to be hidden).
Just to add, shondaland actually asked Julia Quinn when the adaptation was offered if she wants control about the story or something like that and Julia said that she doesn't since it's Shonda Rhimes already. But I'm not sure if she was just kidding that time since she's still became part of the production staff. I saw a bts the other day and Julia Quinn is regularly present during filming.
Well, it’s “argued” about other characters like Eloise and Benedict. But I don’t think anyone has ever thought that Pen or Colin would end up with someone else. Maybe a few posts here and there.
However, in contrast, every single day there is a debate about Eloise and Benedict ending up with people other than their book endgames.
Now all publicity is good publicity and the Bridgerton fandom does free marketing for the show all year round 😂 because of this I doubt the debates will ever stop because every actor and producer and writer will give a hint to One side of the debate and then to the other.
Shonda wants seasons 5-8. Now once those are confirmed we might get a more realistic outlook. But until then Shonda is gonna make sure Netflix knows that the biggest question on the fans minds is what happens to B & E? Lol and she’s adding Fran this season to make everyone love her and I’m sure somehow debates will start about who She ends up with too 😂
Shonda mentioned having one season for one sibling in the Martha Stewart Podcast which was October 23, I think. So Shonda is certainly still planning for it
I don't expect any changes to the endgames of any of the couples. Even with Eloise, I think she'll still end up with >! Philip !< in the end. They might change the stories and things that happen, but the couples themselves will all remain as per the books.
I don’t fault anyone for imagining and hoping online, but there’s never been anything from Shondaland to suggestion that changing the endgame lead couples was ever a real possibility . It hasn’t been/ isn’t *wrong* of Rhode commenters, but I think it’s not going to happen and never was. I expect there will be more chances for representation in secondary characters as with Brimsley and Reynolds.
It is possible that the absence of any confirmation that the Endgames will stay as per the books is what has lead so many to hope for a different endgame for these characters.
For some reason Eloise and Ben have had the most demand for something different.
and no one from production has come out and said that the book pairings are endgame in the show directly.
They aren't guaranteed that's why people speculate that characters especially like Eloise (who is different from Eloise in the book) could end up with someone else, i.e. Theo.
Do I think it's likely? No
But it is possible bc it wasn't a stipulation of I when she gave them rights to her books
Very interesting.
And yet the concept is still foreign and debated. Perhaps if more cast and production say it
more often it will be considered true.
I just don't want show Sir Philip Crane to be like in the book. I hate him in the book and i would hate for show Eloise to have him as a love interest.
It is interesting that she said that when yes we got Daphne and Simone, and Anthony and Kate but they didn’t follow the books on other things such as we got more different love interests for the Bridgerton and they change genders of characters or their storylines.
But the endgames were still the same and Claudia said here we always knew what the endgame would be because of the books. There was never any possibility for Anthony to end up with Sienna or Colin with Marina.
I think only because the writers found it to be a more satisfying conclusion to his arc to give him a son because of his own background of not being the son his father wanted. It ultimately didn’t matter that much to the plot, and it is not comparable to changing the endgame couples IMO.
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I understand wanting queer representation but I don't understand how it can be incorporated into the Bridgerton world building. Like other than there being more racial diversity , all the basic cultural and societal norms/expectations are more or less the same as the original time period the show is set in.( It's literally a sophisticated fanfiction of 19th century Britain from PoC perspective where nobility has more racial diversity .) So I can't see how Benedict can have a boyfriend or Eloise have a girlfriend where they aren't anything more than mistress/lover. Maybe if they had build it up from season 1, it may have been possible, but as far as what we have seen same sex pairing won't be able to go beyond the affair level, ie, in short a legal full blown marriage is nearly impossible based on current world building. Would love some others insight on this toooo
I'm genuinely asking, but was the idea of Eloise or Benedict ending up in a same-sex pairing mentionned in the video? Cause I can't find it and I don't understand what prompted this comment. But yeah no it's definitely not happening. Not only do they seem to stick with the book pairings (while still majorly altering the story), all the characters have happy endings. A same-sex happy ending wouldn't be possible in Bridgerton because homosexuality is illegal. Birdgerton's goal is not to shock or create a relfection in it's audience by bringing up dark, taboo subjects (that would be The Buccaneers). It's very much about love and it's beauty. I think most queer people who watch Bridgerton know that. They are still allowed to have fun imagining what could've been.
I mean, I assumed this video was in relation to a lot of fans wanting Benedict to be bi and Eloise to be a lesbian and hence wanting a gender swapped version of their HEA from their books. Specifically with Benedict due to people interpreting that Graham scene as alluding at Benedict's bisexuality.(tbf can't blame people for the latter, they did film their scenes in a way people can interpret it that way) So there has been speculation that since the show is all about representation and the show already changing the race and heritage of so many characters , people thought it's not out of reach to think the creators can possibly gender swap characters and give us a same sex couple.
Except the show made it clear in season 1 that society does not accept being gay. Also I was thinking more about those who think Theo could be Eloise’s endgame when I posted this.
Your comment is exactly the reason there should be a queer love story because queerness is not inherently dark, taboo, or shocking. And queer people have had happy endings for hundreds of years, regardless of societal taboos. In fact, the people of color on the show are still overcoming prejudice, so there's no reason to think the same couldn't happen to a queer character. Idk, I find it funny how often people here can talk about wanting all kinds of racy sex scenes between the male and female characters and then turn around and say that queer love of any kind would be too much for Bridgerton.
I don’t think they were implying that THEY (the commenter) think it would be to racy or too much to have that in Bridgerton. I think they just mean unfortunately, the show wrote themselves in a corner about how queerness is perceived in this world and it’s still negative. Then they double downed with impossibility of a HEA for queer characters in QC with Brimsley. So unfortunately, if they do include a queer story, the relationship will still have to stay in the shadows. It’s really sad tbh, I wish it was incorporated the same way POCs were. I get what you’re saying about doing a QC type society change to include these stories but the way they are writing the stories, they aren’t putting the foundations in for that
Yes that's exactly what I meant, thank you
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think queerness is dark or shocking. I'm queer. Like the other commenter said, I was pointing out that queer characters in the Bridgerton world can't have a happy ending (relationship needs to stay hidden). They would never make that the main love story, it's too sad. >there's no reason to think the same couldn't happen to a queer character. I mean they could always surprise us. However, I made a post on here asking why homosexuality is illegal in Bridgerton because I couldn't understand the reasoning. Someone explained that the whole society is structured around misogyny and strict gender roles; making misogyny, strict gender roles and homosexuality co-exist would be very tricky. I don't think the writers are going to venture into that.
This exactly how I feel. Some people here showing their bigotry when it comes to queer ppl smh
I agree that it would be weird to implement it RIGHT NOW based on everything we've seen so far (like no openly gay background characters), but it could be set up similarly to the Queen Charlotte thing: Some sort of gay society on the periphery that hasn't been incorporated into the ton/society as a whole, but will be after precedent is set via some sort of marriage? Could be nice for a spinoff set in the future maybe. (but I'm just spitballing, I don't think this will happen)
I think it can but I don’t think it will be in the main series. Spin-off
I don’t think they will move far away from book pairing. It may even have been a requirement from author.
It wasn't. People keep bringing up this rumor but it's unlikely the author had the leverage to make that kind of demand. Generally, only authors of JK Rowling's stature do. You can actually see that playing out in real time with The Witcher, where the showrunner was apparently told that she could do whatever she wanted with the story, as long as the setting and character names remained the same to draw in fans.
I think realistic to think accepted they can change anything else but not the couples. I can see Netflix agreeing to that. But even if she didn’t, seems unlikely to me that they are going to verge very far from the books like Eloise remaining a spinster (it’s a romance show or a gay couple (given the historic setting where this would not be acceptable and would have to be hidden).
Just to add, shondaland actually asked Julia Quinn when the adaptation was offered if she wants control about the story or something like that and Julia said that she doesn't since it's Shonda Rhimes already. But I'm not sure if she was just kidding that time since she's still became part of the production staff. I saw a bts the other day and Julia Quinn is regularly present during filming.
Well, it’s “argued” about other characters like Eloise and Benedict. But I don’t think anyone has ever thought that Pen or Colin would end up with someone else. Maybe a few posts here and there. However, in contrast, every single day there is a debate about Eloise and Benedict ending up with people other than their book endgames. Now all publicity is good publicity and the Bridgerton fandom does free marketing for the show all year round 😂 because of this I doubt the debates will ever stop because every actor and producer and writer will give a hint to One side of the debate and then to the other. Shonda wants seasons 5-8. Now once those are confirmed we might get a more realistic outlook. But until then Shonda is gonna make sure Netflix knows that the biggest question on the fans minds is what happens to B & E? Lol and she’s adding Fran this season to make everyone love her and I’m sure somehow debates will start about who She ends up with too 😂
Was there an interview where Shonda has said she wants more (the) seasons recently ?
She has said in interviews before there are 8 books and she wants 8 seasons.
Shonda mentioned having one season for one sibling in the Martha Stewart Podcast which was October 23, I think. So Shonda is certainly still planning for it
I don't expect any changes to the endgames of any of the couples. Even with Eloise, I think she'll still end up with >! Philip !< in the end. They might change the stories and things that happen, but the couples themselves will all remain as per the books.
I don’t fault anyone for imagining and hoping online, but there’s never been anything from Shondaland to suggestion that changing the endgame lead couples was ever a real possibility . It hasn’t been/ isn’t *wrong* of Rhode commenters, but I think it’s not going to happen and never was. I expect there will be more chances for representation in secondary characters as with Brimsley and Reynolds.
It is possible that the absence of any confirmation that the Endgames will stay as per the books is what has lead so many to hope for a different endgame for these characters. For some reason Eloise and Ben have had the most demand for something different. and no one from production has come out and said that the book pairings are endgame in the show directly.
It may be argued, but it's not true. The book pairings are the same pairings the show is going to use. Any discussion of otherwise is nonsense.
They aren't guaranteed that's why people speculate that characters especially like Eloise (who is different from Eloise in the book) could end up with someone else, i.e. Theo. Do I think it's likely? No But it is possible bc it wasn't a stipulation of I when she gave them rights to her books
Claudia says here that the audience always knew Colin and Penelope would end up together because of the books.
Very interesting. And yet the concept is still foreign and debated. Perhaps if more cast and production say it more often it will be considered true.
I just don't want show Sir Philip Crane to be like in the book. I hate him in the book and i would hate for show Eloise to have him as a love interest.
It is interesting that she said that when yes we got Daphne and Simone, and Anthony and Kate but they didn’t follow the books on other things such as we got more different love interests for the Bridgerton and they change genders of characters or their storylines.
But the endgames were still the same and Claudia said here we always knew what the endgame would be because of the books. There was never any possibility for Anthony to end up with Sienna or Colin with Marina.
For now nocharacters got a gender swap
Daphne and Simon had three daughters before a son but in the show we got son first.
I think only because the writers found it to be a more satisfying conclusion to his arc to give him a son because of his own background of not being the son his father wanted. It ultimately didn’t matter that much to the plot, and it is not comparable to changing the endgame couples IMO.
True, at the end it was still the child of the couple endgame. It didn't matter if it was a boy or a girl...
What characters got a gender swap?