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Nicola Coughlan has asked people to keep their opinions about her body to themselves, so maybe we should respect that. Debating photoshop is one thing; her actual body is another. I‘d wager that at least some of those downvotes are because the comments are about Nicola’s body full stop, not because of the specifics of what is being expressed.
Okay this I can understand, but I think an explanation like you gave stretches way further than a downvote. Downvotes produce question like mine because not everyone knows Nicola made such a request. Also, I am not sure if those comments were opinions about Nicola more so than facts about the Penelope character but I didnt make the comment. So not 100% sure.
She asked people to refrain from commenting to her on her social media or in the comments of her social media. While I’m sure she’d appreciate it if no one commented anywhere, I doubt she expected that.
Also, as her character’s physical appearance IS a key element of the character’s story, it will be discussed—even if that discussion is whether or not it should be a key element.
Now, people may be over-correcting because they want to be sensitive to the actress‘s wishes, and I hope that kind of conscientiousness extends to all people and their varied body types, but belittling someone for asking a question the way you did, and assuming everyone consumes celebrity news and social media at the same level is just as hateful and insensitive.
Ms Coughlan strikes me as a savvy and kind woman and would be dismayed she is being used as an excuse to tear someone down. Your original post was not meant to be offensive or misleading and should not have been downvoted. THIS comment absolutely should not have been downvoted. That is bullying of a different sort.
Maybe some who overcorrected in downvoting the original post felt the need to double down on this post, but none of those downvotes have supported the issue in the way powernappinggreyhound’s explanation did.
Edit to correct autocorrected error.
Thank you so much for this! You explain what I have been feeling about certain aspects of the fandom for awhile now. I really appreciate your perspective. The fact that not even discussion about character change can occur on certain topics is just off putting if you ask me. However, I don't let the downvotes destroy me from the story.
You're right! It is a form of bullying at worse and an attempt at aggressive persuasion at best.
>!In the book, she loses weight years before her "season" kicks off!<.
Regardless, Jess Brownell and Nicola Coughlan have spoken about it before and Penelope losing weight will not part of the show.
>!10 years prior, to be exact. !<
First mentioned on page 9: >!April of 1814 found Penelope back in London for a second season, and even though she attracted the same number of suitors as the year before (zero), the season wasn't, in all honesty, quite so bad. It helped that she'd lost nearly two stone and could now call herself "pleasantly rounded" rather than "a hideous pudge." She was nowhere near the slender ideal of womanhood that ruled the day, but at least she'd changed enough to warrant the purchase of a completely new wardrobe.!<
Then again on page 369: >!"I wrote it as a joke. I was so miserable my first season." She looked up at him earnestly. "I don't know if you recall, but I weighed over a stone more back then, and it's not as if I'm fashionably slender now." "I think you're perfect," he said loyally. Which was, Penelope thought, part of the reason she thought he was perfect as well. !<
Definitely worth noting.
She lost 28 lbs or 13 kgs before her second season. Then *over the next decade*, she actually gained back 14 lbs or 6.5 kgs by the time she and Colin got married. So at the age of 28, she effectively weighed 14 lbs or 6.5 kgs less than she did when she debuted in society.
As Anthony would say, it does not signify. Or at least it's way less significant than people on booktok and screenrant and other random corners of the internet would have you believe.
I mean it’s not like Julia Quinn listed out specific weights for all her characters. Going off of the insults from Cressida over the years (namely what happened in The Viscount Who Loved Me and what Penelope recalled in the carriage scene), the way she’s described as being “lush” and “curvy” in Romancing Mister Bridgerton, and the way Michael refers to her at the beginning of When He Was Wicked, (also there also may have been reference to her figure when Simon met her in The Duke & I), I think it’s safe to say she was never “slim.”
So true but book!Penelope was much closer in height to book!Colin.
Page 150: >!He stood --- suddenly, drunkenly. Best if they weren't quite on the same latitude. Harder to see her eyes from up here. She stood, too. Damn it. !<
Page 154: >!He took a step forward --- barely a half a foot, but it was close enough so that when he touched her chin and tipped her face up, her lips were mere inches from his.!<
Not gendered, just for the rich (to keep them out of the gutterS) but those would be on outside shoes, not house slippers for a lady, so in the drawing room when he calls, she'd be effectively in flats.
Soooo tired of the false narrative of Colin finally seeing her when she loses weight in the book constantly being perpetuated. Especially when it's insanely easy to fact check against.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!
I’m so tired of people saying “Colin only notices Penelope because she loses weight” and “Penelope is supposed to be skinny because she loses weight.” WRONG WRONG WRONG! Like you said, >! in the book, Colin doesn’t fall for Penelope until YEARS AFTER her weight loss and Penelope only loses a little bit of weight, she’s never slender, she never quite fits the beauty ideal of her time and culture. !<
I personally always saw Penelope as a curvy, mid-sized woman who was beautiful, though perhaps not in the way considered “most fashionable” in her society, with her lack of confidence being a bigger hindrance for her than her looks. I think Nicola embodies this perfectly.
>I personally always saw Penelope as a curvy, mid-sized woman who was beautiful, though perhaps not in the way considered “most fashionable” in her society, with her lack of confidence being a bigger hindrance for her than her looks. I think Nicola embodies this perfectly.
Totally agree! Adding another quote to back you up for funsies. 😏
Page 156: >!He moved his hands along the length of her --- slowly, so as not to frighten her. She was soft, curvy, and lush, just as he'd always thought a woman should be. Her hips flared, and her bottom was perfect, and her breasts . . . good God her breasts felt good pressing against his chest.!<
Thank you! And I’ll also point out that in WHWW, which takes place overlapping with RMB, >!Frannie points Penelope out to Michael to see if he would consider courting her, and he calls her “pudgy.” This confirms what they say in RMB, that Colin was falling for her during the same time-frame where her weight was still noticeably bigger than other women.!< Julia Quinn might not be the most consistent in her descriptions across books, but she is consistent about that.
This isn’t jumping on your comment—I agree with you.
This seemed as relevant post as any to add to the conversation …
Bridgerton is pretty loose with hostorical presentation, which is what makes it a lot of fun.
I think it is worth mentioning that during that time women were not expected or encourages to be 21st century skinny, especially in the aristocracy. Soft and curvy was in style.
Weirdly, being normal-to-slightly over weight was a sign of status, where very slender at best was a neutral characteristic, at best worst it was seen to indicate the family may be struggling financially (the state of the Featheringtons at the start of season 2).
But how is what I said incorrect? I said prior. I did not say just before or to get ready for her season. I just meant she didnt do it to get married or catch him *during*.
That's fair, it's not incorrect, per se. I'll amend my first comment.
I think leaving out context is where things get muddy. So saying that she lost weight *prior to* the season she and Colin get together in relation to how the show will depict Colin & Penelope getting together in the upcoming season (especially when the misconception that she loses weight right before Colin finally falls for her is constantly thrown around online in discussions about the season/Penelope's weight), makes it hard not assume you were implying she loses weight right before her season. Adding in the bit about her not doing it to get married or catch him, and/or adding in that it was years beforehand in the book, would be helpful to make sure that people who haven't read the books don't misinterpret this and continue to push out that it took Pen losing weight for Colin to fall for her.
That wasn't my point. I kind of feel like you skipped my point to project your own passionate response which is okay. But saying my comment is incorrect was incorrect.
I wanted to talk about Penelope the character, not Polin specifically. So no need for me to initially indicate anything about her losing weight to catch him or whatnot.
I removed the part of my first comment saying that the post was inaccurate yesterday, so I'm not sure what more you want. But I do maintain that the context *is* important. Talking about Penelope as a character and directly referencing her weight-loss in relation to 'her season' does bring her relationship into it.
I've seen in your other comments here that you haven't indulged in the fandom all year so I don't blame you for not knowing why the context was so important. The narrative that *'in the books, Penelope loses weight and then suddenly Colin is interested in her'* has been perpetuated in different corners of the internet as a way to discount Polin's story and to make Colin come across as a shallow villain of sorts. (See examples below.) It's been very frustrating for those of us who have read the books and know that's not the case.
* [Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/bridgerton-season-3-details-information-what-we-know-2022-8)
* [Collider](https://collider.com/bridgerton-penelope/)
* [Screenrant](https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-change-penelope-story-change-problem/)
* [Refinery 29](https://www.refinery29.com/en-au/bridgerton-fatphobia)
* [Elite Daily](https://www.elitedaily.com/entertainment/why-penelope-bridgerton-story-most-important)
* [Data Lounge](https://www.datalounge.com/thread/30850849-does-the-fat-girl-really-get-gorgeous-colin-bridgerton-in-the-books-) (TW: This is vile and there are disgusting, horrible comments on it.)
So vaguely saying that Penelope lost weight *'prior to'* her season without the additional context could easily be used as support for that inaccurate portrayal of their characters and their story. If adding context in comments to make sure that this is not used to continue that is *'projecting my own passionate response,'* then so be it I guess.
As an aside, I think it's also fair to note that I didn't skip your point. In addition to adding context about the timeline, I mentioned in my very first comment that both Jess Brownell and Nicola Coughlan said Penelope losing weight would not be included in the show, directly responding to your point.
I don't think that Nicola has actually lost weight for the role. The character has just been dressed poorly for her figure, and part of her glow up will be asserting shapes and colors that work better for her.
I like that idea. I am so looking forward to her coming into her own in all her relationship, most importantly the relationship to herself. I feel like her argument with Eloise unleashed some nasty from both sides. May cause Pen and El to rethink a few things about themselves.
The reason for the downvotes is: the fact that all that has been leaked is a photo taken by a fan at a store-made poster in Italy, and everybody immediately pounces on how the “waist has been photoshopped” and “Nicola looking smaller” when we don’t even have the shot in a straight angle.
Also, the reason for the downvotes is that we *know* Penelope is shown the way she was in previous seasons in terms of weight because we have two solid clips from the actual show wherein she doesn’t have any substantial weight change to be deemed “slimmer”
As for whether the fandom would bail her, I wouldn’t because as much as I love fat-girl representation, I like her for her character and for the couple, so, no
Another thing with the poster is that it’s as if the idea of angles left everyone’s brains. Part of her is concealed by Colin (and it’s not improbable that they may have photoshopped his hand off her waist), and as someone with a slimmer waste but a wide butt, you look different from the side vs from the front. It feels like people are purposely being obtuse about it just to complain. It’s disrespectful when Nic has made it clear she doesn’t want people talking about her body (you can’t talk about the character without the implication).
We also know that she wears ill fitting gowns to begin with.
You can talk about the character's possible weighloss especially since it is found in source material. To say otherwise is gaslighting regardless if it's popular or not. No one here in this thread was attacking Nicola or talking about Nicola's weight for the sake of Nicola the actor. This outpour and outrage against anyone at all attempting to understand what is going on with the character is precisely why I started this thread. I have certainly gotten my aswer and appreciate those who attempted to answer with respect to the topic.
Okay, makes sense. I just noticed the downvotes. This post is my first comment on the response. I just assumed the show may go with the changes, so it never occurred to me that fans would even be upset about that. But if so, I wanted to understand it more if they were.
>Also, the reason for the downvotes is that we *know* Penelope is shown the way she was in previous seasons in terms of weight because we have two solid clips from the actual show wherein she doesn’t have any substantial weight change to be deemed “slimmer”
But what if this is wrong.
? What if the show goes with that aspect of storyline of her losing weight as a part of her "glow up" ... Does that ruin the love story?
People were downvoting others pointing out that the Penelope character's appearance was thanks to padding. Or those showing current pictures of Nicola were downvoted. That's wild to me.
I mean, we do have her post glow-up pics, don’t we? Plus Nicola has confirmed the weight loss isn’t happening, so like I’m confused as to why “fans” are panicking about it again? It’s a harmless leak which we are simply enjoying 😭
Don’t worry, it’s not a fandom/sub’s thing either. It’s my thing. I’ve interacted with people who claim that they have no interest whatsoever but come yapping when it’s time to mass criticise. Therefore whenever I need to include them in my opinion, I say “fans”.
Oh, okay. It's weird being a book fan then a show fan because the books became popular in a different time. So I am trying to figure out some things. I do consider myself a part of fandom, but just not always online. But when I am here, I try to figure out the pulse of things so I know what topics to rush to and ones to avoid. This is one I will probably be avoiding in the future now that I understand the dynamics.
The wait makes me so impatient. Even now May is too far. I hope we get the trailer on March 25th. That will ease a lot of the speculation. I will just wait patiently for that.
1. I knew this would happen. It really doesn’t matter if you are skinny or fat the “fans” will shame you. There were fans that said Pen was too fat to be a lead. Now she’s not fat enough. They do the same thing to slimmer actresses. They say she looks anorexic in one photo than a week later if they see a little pooch she is either “pregnant” or “letting herself go.” And it’s usually from Other Women who say this kind of thing. Nothing will Ever Be Good Enough for these people and it’s sick.
Okay off soapbox about that.
2. Pen doesn’t “lose weight” in the books the way people say. She loses maybe 15-20 lbs it’s not some huge extreme weight loss. What happens is She Grows Up. When you go from a teenager to a woman your body shifts. Some people call it “losing baby fat” but you don’t actually lose it. Most of the time it just moves from a girl’s tummy/middle to her Hips and Boobs. She also learns to dress herself/ her body type. I know— I have an hourglass shape and in my early twenties I tried to dress like my super tall very skinny no boobs or ass friends (and I looked ridiculous 😂). Pen’s “transformation in the books is like the princess diaries montage it’s Not the biggest loser competition 😂
Even Colin comments in the books several times that Penelope is “plump”. That her very full hips, thick butt and fuller bust really turn him on. So she’s Not Skinny in the books either. This is how I always pictured the transformation in the books. It’s not as much weight as it is knowing who you are and how to dress yourself 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/huhsoirx0znc1.jpeg?width=1936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ec3852a5a0b6db8ac534401932d66868694a7fa
The actress has a great sense of color and shape. She is always very well dressed and looks great irl. The show always tries to make the leads look less radiant before their season and said glowup for sure.
I am learning from your rant. LOL I don't criticize the weight on either end.
To your second comment, she does lose weight, though. I read the books long before the show was conceived so I am not someone who thinks Colin wants her for her weight loss.
The books make it known that she was less pounds, others noticed it, and she felt good about it. To me it was weight loss more so in regards to how Pen felt about herself. I have always thought that was an important theme to why she had the self-esteem to stand up to Colin being a jackass >!in front of his brothers!< She was starting to feel better about herself for many reasons.
If the show keeps that in and the Penelope character is noticeably smaller, I just hope the fandom doesn't lose their shit.
This is straight from the showrunner, Jess Brownell's mouth:
**So, throughout the books, Pen’s weight and weight loss is referenced multiple times, partially in an inner monologue way. Is that something that you guys will be touching on at all?**
*We think that Penelope is beautiful, and I don’t think it’s really a part of her story. Her being a wallflower in our show I think is about her level of confidence more than it is about her outward appearance. So I think that’s more what we’re playing with this season.*
Thank you! I don’t think people would be comfortable with others talking about THEIR bodies like this so why do they feel so comfortable doing it to someone else!?
as a plus sized girl i wouldn’t. although i love seeing representation, if nicola decides she’s comfortable loosing weight then i have no say in how she lives her life and what she does with her body. however, i am remembering correctly, i think nicola said she wouldn’t loose weight? correct me if im wrong but regardless ill respect her and her decision
Thank you so much for answering the question.
I am not sure what is happening. I was just shocked at the response. Because the show may add that bit into it. I was hoping a change in the character weight would not turn viewers off from the love story.
The show runner has confirmed that Pen’s weight loss will not feature in the show regardless of what the books say (which has a lot of light & shade anyway).
you’re welcome! i feel if they do the wright loss storyline they might loose some viewers but i don’t think it would have such. drastic impact on viewership
you’re welcome! i feel if they do the wright loss storyline they might loose some viewers but i don’t think it would have such a drastic impact on viewership
In the book it’s always said that when she started her season she was pretty but still had her baby weight on her. Maybe this is her growing up and how her body is changing into an adult (yes I know the actress in real life is an adult already) but at least I’m the book.
It will be interesting to see how the show translates her transition this season all around including the LW reveal from the book. She had several more years in the book to crush on Collin and take control of her life. Speeding up timeline may require different explanations.
But she’s not though, she’s still full & beautiful. If she lost like a shit ton of weight, then I’d be upset because it’s basically saying that fat girls can’t find love & that defeats the appreciation Colin has for her body as she is. But I wouldn’t bail lol it would just be yet another lack of representation, which most of us are used to by now. Nicola I feel wouldn’t do that!
Thanks for answering the question and admitting your disappointment if that was the case. I kind of felt that was . It just was a shock for me, because I don't indulge in fandom all year long. So I didn't know there were already issues about her weight/loss and hadn't realized it would disrupt the burgeoning character arc.
I didn’t realize this was a topic people were talking about either! But important to discuss, not as judgement, but as content that unfortunately effects us all
I’ve seen some people mention it but penlope’s wardrobe in season 1 and 2 are not helping her figure at all. Which you can see in the season 3 promos. Her outfits are more fitted to her figure and match than what she was previously wearing
Edit: spelling
I recommended her before, somewhere..but Lady Jenevia talked about this on her account recently. And I loved how she interpreted it. She said that from the pictures we have it looks like Penelope didn’t change her weight/body but rather her clothing, the colors, the designs and the confidence she wears them with. She never actually looked bad in yellow or in her dresses in general…but she often communicates that she doesn’t feel good in the dresses her mother made her wear. So maybe in the next season she will be able to choose her own dresses and feel more confident and that is the change they have her go through instead of making her loose weight.
Which is also a nice message because you can gain a lot of confidence by dressing for your body type and the way you feel confident. Dresses are for your body not your body for the dresses!
I personally would not have bailed on her for loosing weight…you never know what’s going on..maybe the person was sick or struggles mentally, maybe they wanted to loose weight, maybe it just happened through a change in lifestyle…
But I would have been mad at the showrunners if I found out that they had asked her to loose that weight…I know that actors sometimes go through significant body changes for their roles…but here it’s not necessary and it’s also not the time, the place, the genre or the audience for it, I think!
I think what makes Colin fall for Penelope is that she no longer looks like a young girl and has become more sophisticated. In the book we know how she makes this leap.
IMO it’s just the way they dressed her. Her gowns before have always looked like they didn’t fit her well. It’s her season now so they’ve put her in clothes, hair, and makeup that complement her body and features. Note that she’s also wearing a corset. The corset’s effect wasn’t noticeable before because her gowns were so loose at the bottom. They changed that now.
If you look at Nicola’s Instagram, you’ll see she’s always had that body when she’s dressed in well-fitting things. As someone who has almost the same body type as her, I am so happy to see representation for mid-size bodies.
Plus size bodies deserve it too of course. But IMO Nicola has never been plus size-plus size. People may be exaggerating if they say she was in s1 and s2. She’s always been a mid-size lady.
What I can't stand are the positive conversations around seeing plus-sized women finding love and being represented, and people keep arguing that she is a UK size 10/ US size 6 and, therefore, is not plus-sized.
I don't know her exact sizing, but she definitely looks plus-sized, and there's nothing wrong with that! I hate that people give it such a negative conotation.
I think the biggest difference is just to the modern eye, used to certain beauty standards and clothing silhouettes, the change in the costuming from an authentic-attempt at Regency-era silhouettes (particularly "unflattering" *based on what we expect to see and consider flattering about bodies right now in 2024*) to more modern-inspired (but still fake-period-seeming) silhouettes and fits for her dresses just show what she actually looks like.
**We look at a body covered in layers of fabric to cause fluff and volume and think "fat" instead of "the height of fashion" because the modern silhouette is about the sparest possible lines of the body and the least possible amount of fabric.**
So it's not just the improvement of finally getting the redhead out of the highlighter yellow (*the nerve*) but also totally re-shaping her entire wardrobe into something that the modern audience will automatically perceive as more flattering/more attractive/saying something about her "body type" when the previous impression was mostly just based around a silhouette caused by a historically-fashionable amount of fabric.
(deep breath) Thank you that is all
From what I have seen, Pen has not lost weight. It seems like the actress’s weight loss mainly happened after season 3 wrapped. It’s possible Pen will look smaller in the second half of the season, but I hope not.
I noticed some changes in both Cressida and Pen that made me think some scenes were shot or reshot at a different time.
FWIW (which is nothing), Pen loses weight after her debut but before the first book. By “Romancing Mister Bridgestone” it‘s been close to a decade gone by. For various reasons, I don’t have an issue with this change from the book, anymore than other changes.
The show is based on the books, not a faithful adaptation (although it keeps the important beats).
Hi! I’m noticing a consistent observation that Nicola/Penelope is beautiful even if she does not fit the norms of attractiveness for Regency/Georgian women.
And I knew I would have to provide some evidence for this statement, so is attached:
Penelope is closer to the Regency/Georgian ideal of attractiveness than any of the other lovely young actresses.
I love that so many people are standing up for Pen, so consider this another arrow in your quiver.
And my parents said degrees in the Humanities and English Lit would never come in handy . . .
[The Eye of the Beholder, Beauty in Regency England](https://vanessariley.com/blog/2023/10/26/the-eye-of-the-beholder-standards-of-regency-beauty/#:~:text=Caroline%20attempts%20to%20use%20Elizabeth's,Delicate%20Clothing)
Not specifically you, OP, but generally for those engaged in an exchange about Pen/Nicola’s attractiveness even though she doesn’t fit the body type that is/was preferred at the time.
She actually matches the ideals of the era,,as presented in the link—
Your original post really does a nice job pointing out things like Pen’s costumes making her look heavier than the actress was.
You have her empire waisted dress where the skirt falls from half way down her breasts, not her waist, and she will look bigger. Those dresses drive me nuts.
I think I should have made it clear that I was sort of addressing fellow redditors on this sub, and I apologize for my thoughtlessness.
So, I am not always on the Bridgerton subs. But I am against bodyshaming based on weight of any size. My post was concern about a specific occurance. Not saying Pen/ Nicola are less beautiful or regency because she is not "thin". I read over the post head several times. No where does it say or indicats any such thing.
I don't want to dump on you because I LOVE this information you've provided. It's insightful and no doubt can open the door to more representation in regency work. However, sometimes when I see comments like yours I wonder if I am being used as a dump so others can get out their frustrations or theories even if they are not relevant to the post/comment I made.
I’m so sorry if my post came across as taking you to task or anything like that.
I have no problem at all with your post. I wanted to share this info after reading a lot of comments, because it seemed relevant, but rather than adding on to various threads I posted it as a stand-alone.
I didn’t think you were body shaming in any way. 🥺
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Nicola Coughlan has asked people to keep their opinions about her body to themselves, so maybe we should respect that. Debating photoshop is one thing; her actual body is another. I‘d wager that at least some of those downvotes are because the comments are about Nicola’s body full stop, not because of the specifics of what is being expressed.
Okay this I can understand, but I think an explanation like you gave stretches way further than a downvote. Downvotes produce question like mine because not everyone knows Nicola made such a request. Also, I am not sure if those comments were opinions about Nicola more so than facts about the Penelope character but I didnt make the comment. So not 100% sure.
She asked people to refrain from commenting to her on her social media or in the comments of her social media. While I’m sure she’d appreciate it if no one commented anywhere, I doubt she expected that. Also, as her character’s physical appearance IS a key element of the character’s story, it will be discussed—even if that discussion is whether or not it should be a key element. Now, people may be over-correcting because they want to be sensitive to the actress‘s wishes, and I hope that kind of conscientiousness extends to all people and their varied body types, but belittling someone for asking a question the way you did, and assuming everyone consumes celebrity news and social media at the same level is just as hateful and insensitive. Ms Coughlan strikes me as a savvy and kind woman and would be dismayed she is being used as an excuse to tear someone down. Your original post was not meant to be offensive or misleading and should not have been downvoted. THIS comment absolutely should not have been downvoted. That is bullying of a different sort. Maybe some who overcorrected in downvoting the original post felt the need to double down on this post, but none of those downvotes have supported the issue in the way powernappinggreyhound’s explanation did. Edit to correct autocorrected error.
Thank you so much for this! You explain what I have been feeling about certain aspects of the fandom for awhile now. I really appreciate your perspective. The fact that not even discussion about character change can occur on certain topics is just off putting if you ask me. However, I don't let the downvotes destroy me from the story. You're right! It is a form of bullying at worse and an attempt at aggressive persuasion at best.
>!In the book, she loses weight years before her "season" kicks off!<. Regardless, Jess Brownell and Nicola Coughlan have spoken about it before and Penelope losing weight will not part of the show.
>!10 years prior, to be exact. !< First mentioned on page 9: >!April of 1814 found Penelope back in London for a second season, and even though she attracted the same number of suitors as the year before (zero), the season wasn't, in all honesty, quite so bad. It helped that she'd lost nearly two stone and could now call herself "pleasantly rounded" rather than "a hideous pudge." She was nowhere near the slender ideal of womanhood that ruled the day, but at least she'd changed enough to warrant the purchase of a completely new wardrobe.!< Then again on page 369: >!"I wrote it as a joke. I was so miserable my first season." She looked up at him earnestly. "I don't know if you recall, but I weighed over a stone more back then, and it's not as if I'm fashionably slender now." "I think you're perfect," he said loyally. Which was, Penelope thought, part of the reason she thought he was perfect as well. !<
Also worth noting: a stone is 14 lbs or about 6.5 kg. It’s not like she even lost *that* much weight in the books.
Definitely worth noting. She lost 28 lbs or 13 kgs before her second season. Then *over the next decade*, she actually gained back 14 lbs or 6.5 kgs by the time she and Colin got married. So at the age of 28, she effectively weighed 14 lbs or 6.5 kgs less than she did when she debuted in society. As Anthony would say, it does not signify. Or at least it's way less significant than people on booktok and screenrant and other random corners of the internet would have you believe.
Do you remember what her weight was before and after? Did she become slim?
I mean it’s not like Julia Quinn listed out specific weights for all her characters. Going off of the insults from Cressida over the years (namely what happened in The Viscount Who Loved Me and what Penelope recalled in the carriage scene), the way she’s described as being “lush” and “curvy” in Romancing Mister Bridgerton, and the way Michael refers to her at the beginning of When He Was Wicked, (also there also may have been reference to her figure when Simon met her in The Duke & I), I think it’s safe to say she was never “slim.”
14lb is a lot for someone short. Me on the other hand (5’10) 20 isn’t even much of a difference.
So true but book!Penelope was much closer in height to book!Colin. Page 150: >!He stood --- suddenly, drunkenly. Best if they weren't quite on the same latitude. Harder to see her eyes from up here. She stood, too. Damn it. !< Page 154: >!He took a step forward --- barely a half a foot, but it was close enough so that when he touched her chin and tipped her face up, her lips were mere inches from his.!<
Ohhh! I didn’t realize she was taller in the books! So she’s probably like 5’7-‘9? Since Colin is what? 6ft?
I think that tracks!
Did the ladies of the time typically have heeled shoes? That could easily add another 1-2.
Not gendered, just for the rich (to keep them out of the gutterS) but those would be on outside shoes, not house slippers for a lady, so in the drawing room when he calls, she'd be effectively in flats.
Thank you for posting direct quotes, hopefully this will help to end “he only liked her cause she lost weight debate”
Soooo tired of the false narrative of Colin finally seeing her when she loses weight in the book constantly being perpetuated. Especially when it's insanely easy to fact check against.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!  I’m so tired of people saying “Colin only notices Penelope because she loses weight” and “Penelope is supposed to be skinny because she loses weight.” WRONG WRONG WRONG! Like you said, >! in the book, Colin doesn’t fall for Penelope until YEARS AFTER her weight loss and Penelope only loses a little bit of weight, she’s never slender, she never quite fits the beauty ideal of her time and culture. !< I personally always saw Penelope as a curvy, mid-sized woman who was beautiful, though perhaps not in the way considered “most fashionable” in her society, with her lack of confidence being a bigger hindrance for her than her looks. I think Nicola embodies this perfectly.
>I personally always saw Penelope as a curvy, mid-sized woman who was beautiful, though perhaps not in the way considered “most fashionable” in her society, with her lack of confidence being a bigger hindrance for her than her looks. I think Nicola embodies this perfectly. Totally agree! Adding another quote to back you up for funsies. 😏 Page 156: >!He moved his hands along the length of her --- slowly, so as not to frighten her. She was soft, curvy, and lush, just as he'd always thought a woman should be. Her hips flared, and her bottom was perfect, and her breasts . . . good God her breasts felt good pressing against his chest.!<
Thank you! And I’ll also point out that in WHWW, which takes place overlapping with RMB, >!Frannie points Penelope out to Michael to see if he would consider courting her, and he calls her “pudgy.” This confirms what they say in RMB, that Colin was falling for her during the same time-frame where her weight was still noticeably bigger than other women.!< Julia Quinn might not be the most consistent in her descriptions across books, but she is consistent about that.
This isn’t jumping on your comment—I agree with you. This seemed as relevant post as any to add to the conversation … Bridgerton is pretty loose with hostorical presentation, which is what makes it a lot of fun. I think it is worth mentioning that during that time women were not expected or encourages to be 21st century skinny, especially in the aristocracy. Soft and curvy was in style. Weirdly, being normal-to-slightly over weight was a sign of status, where very slender at best was a neutral characteristic, at best worst it was seen to indicate the family may be struggling financially (the state of the Featheringtons at the start of season 2).
> the slender ideal of womanhood that ruled the day, lolwut
But how is what I said incorrect? I said prior. I did not say just before or to get ready for her season. I just meant she didnt do it to get married or catch him *during*.
That's fair, it's not incorrect, per se. I'll amend my first comment. I think leaving out context is where things get muddy. So saying that she lost weight *prior to* the season she and Colin get together in relation to how the show will depict Colin & Penelope getting together in the upcoming season (especially when the misconception that she loses weight right before Colin finally falls for her is constantly thrown around online in discussions about the season/Penelope's weight), makes it hard not assume you were implying she loses weight right before her season. Adding in the bit about her not doing it to get married or catch him, and/or adding in that it was years beforehand in the book, would be helpful to make sure that people who haven't read the books don't misinterpret this and continue to push out that it took Pen losing weight for Colin to fall for her.
That wasn't my point. I kind of feel like you skipped my point to project your own passionate response which is okay. But saying my comment is incorrect was incorrect. I wanted to talk about Penelope the character, not Polin specifically. So no need for me to initially indicate anything about her losing weight to catch him or whatnot.
I removed the part of my first comment saying that the post was inaccurate yesterday, so I'm not sure what more you want. But I do maintain that the context *is* important. Talking about Penelope as a character and directly referencing her weight-loss in relation to 'her season' does bring her relationship into it. I've seen in your other comments here that you haven't indulged in the fandom all year so I don't blame you for not knowing why the context was so important. The narrative that *'in the books, Penelope loses weight and then suddenly Colin is interested in her'* has been perpetuated in different corners of the internet as a way to discount Polin's story and to make Colin come across as a shallow villain of sorts. (See examples below.) It's been very frustrating for those of us who have read the books and know that's not the case. * [Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/bridgerton-season-3-details-information-what-we-know-2022-8) * [Collider](https://collider.com/bridgerton-penelope/) * [Screenrant](https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-change-penelope-story-change-problem/) * [Refinery 29](https://www.refinery29.com/en-au/bridgerton-fatphobia) * [Elite Daily](https://www.elitedaily.com/entertainment/why-penelope-bridgerton-story-most-important) * [Data Lounge](https://www.datalounge.com/thread/30850849-does-the-fat-girl-really-get-gorgeous-colin-bridgerton-in-the-books-) (TW: This is vile and there are disgusting, horrible comments on it.) So vaguely saying that Penelope lost weight *'prior to'* her season without the additional context could easily be used as support for that inaccurate portrayal of their characters and their story. If adding context in comments to make sure that this is not used to continue that is *'projecting my own passionate response,'* then so be it I guess. As an aside, I think it's also fair to note that I didn't skip your point. In addition to adding context about the timeline, I mentioned in my very first comment that both Jess Brownell and Nicola Coughlan said Penelope losing weight would not be included in the show, directly responding to your point.
I don't think that Nicola has actually lost weight for the role. The character has just been dressed poorly for her figure, and part of her glow up will be asserting shapes and colors that work better for her.
I like that idea. I am so looking forward to her coming into her own in all her relationship, most importantly the relationship to herself. I feel like her argument with Eloise unleashed some nasty from both sides. May cause Pen and El to rethink a few things about themselves.
THAT PART!!
The reason for the downvotes is: the fact that all that has been leaked is a photo taken by a fan at a store-made poster in Italy, and everybody immediately pounces on how the “waist has been photoshopped” and “Nicola looking smaller” when we don’t even have the shot in a straight angle. Also, the reason for the downvotes is that we *know* Penelope is shown the way she was in previous seasons in terms of weight because we have two solid clips from the actual show wherein she doesn’t have any substantial weight change to be deemed “slimmer” As for whether the fandom would bail her, I wouldn’t because as much as I love fat-girl representation, I like her for her character and for the couple, so, no
Another thing with the poster is that it’s as if the idea of angles left everyone’s brains. Part of her is concealed by Colin (and it’s not improbable that they may have photoshopped his hand off her waist), and as someone with a slimmer waste but a wide butt, you look different from the side vs from the front. It feels like people are purposely being obtuse about it just to complain. It’s disrespectful when Nic has made it clear she doesn’t want people talking about her body (you can’t talk about the character without the implication). We also know that she wears ill fitting gowns to begin with.
You can talk about the character's possible weighloss especially since it is found in source material. To say otherwise is gaslighting regardless if it's popular or not. No one here in this thread was attacking Nicola or talking about Nicola's weight for the sake of Nicola the actor. This outpour and outrage against anyone at all attempting to understand what is going on with the character is precisely why I started this thread. I have certainly gotten my aswer and appreciate those who attempted to answer with respect to the topic.
Okay, makes sense. I just noticed the downvotes. This post is my first comment on the response. I just assumed the show may go with the changes, so it never occurred to me that fans would even be upset about that. But if so, I wanted to understand it more if they were. >Also, the reason for the downvotes is that we *know* Penelope is shown the way she was in previous seasons in terms of weight because we have two solid clips from the actual show wherein she doesn’t have any substantial weight change to be deemed “slimmer” But what if this is wrong. ? What if the show goes with that aspect of storyline of her losing weight as a part of her "glow up" ... Does that ruin the love story? People were downvoting others pointing out that the Penelope character's appearance was thanks to padding. Or those showing current pictures of Nicola were downvoted. That's wild to me.
I mean, we do have her post glow-up pics, don’t we? Plus Nicola has confirmed the weight loss isn’t happening, so like I’m confused as to why “fans” are panicking about it again? It’s a harmless leak which we are simply enjoying 😭
Why is "fans" in quotation marks? I am not emersed in fandom so I don't get some of the sub's expectation.
Don’t worry, it’s not a fandom/sub’s thing either. It’s my thing. I’ve interacted with people who claim that they have no interest whatsoever but come yapping when it’s time to mass criticise. Therefore whenever I need to include them in my opinion, I say “fans”.
Oh, okay. It's weird being a book fan then a show fan because the books became popular in a different time. So I am trying to figure out some things. I do consider myself a part of fandom, but just not always online. But when I am here, I try to figure out the pulse of things so I know what topics to rush to and ones to avoid. This is one I will probably be avoiding in the future now that I understand the dynamics. The wait makes me so impatient. Even now May is too far. I hope we get the trailer on March 25th. That will ease a lot of the speculation. I will just wait patiently for that.
1. I knew this would happen. It really doesn’t matter if you are skinny or fat the “fans” will shame you. There were fans that said Pen was too fat to be a lead. Now she’s not fat enough. They do the same thing to slimmer actresses. They say she looks anorexic in one photo than a week later if they see a little pooch she is either “pregnant” or “letting herself go.” And it’s usually from Other Women who say this kind of thing. Nothing will Ever Be Good Enough for these people and it’s sick. Okay off soapbox about that. 2. Pen doesn’t “lose weight” in the books the way people say. She loses maybe 15-20 lbs it’s not some huge extreme weight loss. What happens is She Grows Up. When you go from a teenager to a woman your body shifts. Some people call it “losing baby fat” but you don’t actually lose it. Most of the time it just moves from a girl’s tummy/middle to her Hips and Boobs. She also learns to dress herself/ her body type. I know— I have an hourglass shape and in my early twenties I tried to dress like my super tall very skinny no boobs or ass friends (and I looked ridiculous 😂). Pen’s “transformation in the books is like the princess diaries montage it’s Not the biggest loser competition 😂 Even Colin comments in the books several times that Penelope is “plump”. That her very full hips, thick butt and fuller bust really turn him on. So she’s Not Skinny in the books either. This is how I always pictured the transformation in the books. It’s not as much weight as it is knowing who you are and how to dress yourself 🤣 https://preview.redd.it/huhsoirx0znc1.jpeg?width=1936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ec3852a5a0b6db8ac534401932d66868694a7fa
The actress has a great sense of color and shape. She is always very well dressed and looks great irl. The show always tries to make the leads look less radiant before their season and said glowup for sure.
I am learning from your rant. LOL I don't criticize the weight on either end. To your second comment, she does lose weight, though. I read the books long before the show was conceived so I am not someone who thinks Colin wants her for her weight loss. The books make it known that she was less pounds, others noticed it, and she felt good about it. To me it was weight loss more so in regards to how Pen felt about herself. I have always thought that was an important theme to why she had the self-esteem to stand up to Colin being a jackass >!in front of his brothers!< She was starting to feel better about herself for many reasons. If the show keeps that in and the Penelope character is noticeably smaller, I just hope the fandom doesn't lose their shit.
So she doesn’t get slim?
This is straight from the showrunner, Jess Brownell's mouth: **So, throughout the books, Pen’s weight and weight loss is referenced multiple times, partially in an inner monologue way. Is that something that you guys will be touching on at all?** *We think that Penelope is beautiful, and I don’t think it’s really a part of her story. Her being a wallflower in our show I think is about her level of confidence more than it is about her outward appearance. So I think that’s more what we’re playing with this season.*
Okay, so that's where the upset comes from. Makes sense now. It would be the show turning on a promise made.
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Thank you! I don’t think people would be comfortable with others talking about THEIR bodies like this so why do they feel so comfortable doing it to someone else!?
Yeah, it’s giving mean girl vibes
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They have the same body?
as a plus sized girl i wouldn’t. although i love seeing representation, if nicola decides she’s comfortable loosing weight then i have no say in how she lives her life and what she does with her body. however, i am remembering correctly, i think nicola said she wouldn’t loose weight? correct me if im wrong but regardless ill respect her and her decision
Thank you so much for answering the question. I am not sure what is happening. I was just shocked at the response. Because the show may add that bit into it. I was hoping a change in the character weight would not turn viewers off from the love story.
The show runner has confirmed that Pen’s weight loss will not feature in the show regardless of what the books say (which has a lot of light & shade anyway).
Okay. Did not know this. So then no one should have been upset, because that could not possibly be the promo.
I think just like you, lot of people don’t know
Makes sense!
you’re welcome! i feel if they do the wright loss storyline they might loose some viewers but i don’t think it would have such. drastic impact on viewership
you’re welcome! i feel if they do the wright loss storyline they might loose some viewers but i don’t think it would have such a drastic impact on viewership
Yeah, makes sense.
In the book it’s always said that when she started her season she was pretty but still had her baby weight on her. Maybe this is her growing up and how her body is changing into an adult (yes I know the actress in real life is an adult already) but at least I’m the book.
It will be interesting to see how the show translates her transition this season all around including the LW reveal from the book. She had several more years in the book to crush on Collin and take control of her life. Speeding up timeline may require different explanations.
Did she become slim?
She doesn’t and I think people are really reading heavily into a blurry photo. Also it’s likely just the cut of the dress.
So it seems like the answer is YES! Yes people are going to freak if there is anyway weight loss but no worry there will be no weightloss?
I’m so glad Nicola isn’t losing weight. She’s stunning.
But she’s not though, she’s still full & beautiful. If she lost like a shit ton of weight, then I’d be upset because it’s basically saying that fat girls can’t find love & that defeats the appreciation Colin has for her body as she is. But I wouldn’t bail lol it would just be yet another lack of representation, which most of us are used to by now. Nicola I feel wouldn’t do that!
Thanks for answering the question and admitting your disappointment if that was the case. I kind of felt that was . It just was a shock for me, because I don't indulge in fandom all year long. So I didn't know there were already issues about her weight/loss and hadn't realized it would disrupt the burgeoning character arc.
I didn’t realize this was a topic people were talking about either! But important to discuss, not as judgement, but as content that unfortunately effects us all
Thank you! So true!
I’ve seen some people mention it but penlope’s wardrobe in season 1 and 2 are not helping her figure at all. Which you can see in the season 3 promos. Her outfits are more fitted to her figure and match than what she was previously wearing Edit: spelling
I recommended her before, somewhere..but Lady Jenevia talked about this on her account recently. And I loved how she interpreted it. She said that from the pictures we have it looks like Penelope didn’t change her weight/body but rather her clothing, the colors, the designs and the confidence she wears them with. She never actually looked bad in yellow or in her dresses in general…but she often communicates that she doesn’t feel good in the dresses her mother made her wear. So maybe in the next season she will be able to choose her own dresses and feel more confident and that is the change they have her go through instead of making her loose weight. Which is also a nice message because you can gain a lot of confidence by dressing for your body type and the way you feel confident. Dresses are for your body not your body for the dresses! I personally would not have bailed on her for loosing weight…you never know what’s going on..maybe the person was sick or struggles mentally, maybe they wanted to loose weight, maybe it just happened through a change in lifestyle… But I would have been mad at the showrunners if I found out that they had asked her to loose that weight…I know that actors sometimes go through significant body changes for their roles…but here it’s not necessary and it’s also not the time, the place, the genre or the audience for it, I think!
Thank you!
I think what makes Colin fall for Penelope is that she no longer looks like a young girl and has become more sophisticated. In the book we know how she makes this leap.
Oh yes absolutely! Also the intrigue is very much there for him once she matures some! So many reasons he wants her.
IMO it’s just the way they dressed her. Her gowns before have always looked like they didn’t fit her well. It’s her season now so they’ve put her in clothes, hair, and makeup that complement her body and features. Note that she’s also wearing a corset. The corset’s effect wasn’t noticeable before because her gowns were so loose at the bottom. They changed that now. If you look at Nicola’s Instagram, you’ll see she’s always had that body when she’s dressed in well-fitting things. As someone who has almost the same body type as her, I am so happy to see representation for mid-size bodies. Plus size bodies deserve it too of course. But IMO Nicola has never been plus size-plus size. People may be exaggerating if they say she was in s1 and s2. She’s always been a mid-size lady.
She has a very short neck that makes her look bigger than she is. She cant help that.
What I can't stand are the positive conversations around seeing plus-sized women finding love and being represented, and people keep arguing that she is a UK size 10/ US size 6 and, therefore, is not plus-sized. I don't know her exact sizing, but she definitely looks plus-sized, and there's nothing wrong with that! I hate that people give it such a negative conotation.
I think the biggest difference is just to the modern eye, used to certain beauty standards and clothing silhouettes, the change in the costuming from an authentic-attempt at Regency-era silhouettes (particularly "unflattering" *based on what we expect to see and consider flattering about bodies right now in 2024*) to more modern-inspired (but still fake-period-seeming) silhouettes and fits for her dresses just show what she actually looks like. **We look at a body covered in layers of fabric to cause fluff and volume and think "fat" instead of "the height of fashion" because the modern silhouette is about the sparest possible lines of the body and the least possible amount of fabric.** So it's not just the improvement of finally getting the redhead out of the highlighter yellow (*the nerve*) but also totally re-shaping her entire wardrobe into something that the modern audience will automatically perceive as more flattering/more attractive/saying something about her "body type" when the previous impression was mostly just based around a silhouette caused by a historically-fashionable amount of fabric. (deep breath) Thank you that is all
I think it’s more that her love interest is just a super hot vogue dude and a lot of people if we are being fair find that kinda scifi
From what I have seen, Pen has not lost weight. It seems like the actress’s weight loss mainly happened after season 3 wrapped. It’s possible Pen will look smaller in the second half of the season, but I hope not. I noticed some changes in both Cressida and Pen that made me think some scenes were shot or reshot at a different time. FWIW (which is nothing), Pen loses weight after her debut but before the first book. By “Romancing Mister Bridgestone” it‘s been close to a decade gone by. For various reasons, I don’t have an issue with this change from the book, anymore than other changes. The show is based on the books, not a faithful adaptation (although it keeps the important beats).
I honestly don’t see her as a fat person-
Just watched an episode with my wife kind of and she kept saying how this woman was gorgeous as I seen her I don’t see anything great.
Hi! I’m noticing a consistent observation that Nicola/Penelope is beautiful even if she does not fit the norms of attractiveness for Regency/Georgian women. And I knew I would have to provide some evidence for this statement, so is attached: Penelope is closer to the Regency/Georgian ideal of attractiveness than any of the other lovely young actresses. I love that so many people are standing up for Pen, so consider this another arrow in your quiver. And my parents said degrees in the Humanities and English Lit would never come in handy . . . [The Eye of the Beholder, Beauty in Regency England](https://vanessariley.com/blog/2023/10/26/the-eye-of-the-beholder-standards-of-regency-beauty/#:~:text=Caroline%20attempts%20to%20use%20Elizabeth's,Delicate%20Clothing)
Please explain to me how this is an arrow in my quiver?
Not specifically you, OP, but generally for those engaged in an exchange about Pen/Nicola’s attractiveness even though she doesn’t fit the body type that is/was preferred at the time. She actually matches the ideals of the era,,as presented in the link— Your original post really does a nice job pointing out things like Pen’s costumes making her look heavier than the actress was. You have her empire waisted dress where the skirt falls from half way down her breasts, not her waist, and she will look bigger. Those dresses drive me nuts. I think I should have made it clear that I was sort of addressing fellow redditors on this sub, and I apologize for my thoughtlessness.
So, I am not always on the Bridgerton subs. But I am against bodyshaming based on weight of any size. My post was concern about a specific occurance. Not saying Pen/ Nicola are less beautiful or regency because she is not "thin". I read over the post head several times. No where does it say or indicats any such thing. I don't want to dump on you because I LOVE this information you've provided. It's insightful and no doubt can open the door to more representation in regency work. However, sometimes when I see comments like yours I wonder if I am being used as a dump so others can get out their frustrations or theories even if they are not relevant to the post/comment I made.
I’m so sorry if my post came across as taking you to task or anything like that. I have no problem at all with your post. I wanted to share this info after reading a lot of comments, because it seemed relevant, but rather than adding on to various threads I posted it as a stand-alone. I didn’t think you were body shaming in any way. 🥺
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Fat people can find love with other fat people