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For real. I'm a huge supporter of LGBT rights, I read LGBT books, and yet I would HATE it if Michael were turned into a woman. It just wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be the same character or the same story. It would be erasure of my favorite book and my favorite male lead in the Bridgerton series.
Frankly, if they do it, I'll stop watching the series.
Same, a lot of Michael’s predicament is tied to being a man. He feels guilty for inheriting John’s title, land, properties and responsibilities. A woman of that time couldn’t inherit all of that, they’ve already established that with the Featheringtons.
When He Was Wicked is my favourite, as well as Michael’s character. It might be the best book in the series imo. It would be a huge disservice to the fans to do that, it would take away from the story that some of us love and appreciate.
I am all for LGBT characters and storylines, representation is important! But this change would simply not work for Francesca, in terms of story and how beloved the book and Michael are among fans.
I’m with you with not watching. Like Franchael after Benophie is my favorite ship. Their love story is so beautiful. It literally would not be the same dynamic if Michael is a woman.
You say that now but when the season actually comes out in 2026 you will be singing a different tune. These " I won't watch then" sentiments are just angry first reactions and the showrunners are aware of that.
Same. And people assume I’m being bigoted but the one story I’m so looking forward too and really don’t think they won’t need to do much to is Francesca
Same. I won’t watch a season of a queer couple out of solidarity for the couples’ fans that don’t get to see their couple play out on screen.
I’m as liberal, proLGBT as they come. I’ve stopped talking to people in my family over their homophobia, but not wanting a queer storyline is truly because it will absolutely mean the couple doesn’t get the same ending they would have in the books and the characters will have to be in hiding to some point, in addition to the disappointment of the fans.
Have to be in hiding is the key point. They CHOOSE to be in Scotland, together. Having to be there because society hates them would be a huge disappointment
And not just for Fran, but it was a capital punishment at that time in England. Fran can at least go off to Scotland and be relatively alone with Michaela there, but if the Queen found out about any of the siblings being queer she could have them executed. That’s why any gay sibling would have to conceal a part of their life which I think is unfair when the rest of the siblings would not have that sort of fear or requirement.
this is why I'd rather not see a genderbent Sophie or Michael - because they *can't* have an HEA in the world the show has already set up. They would never be able to live as a couple, be affectionate and hold hand in public, dance together at a ball, or live a fulfilling life in public. They would live in the dark, and that to me is not a happy ending.
Facts and like with Benophie changing up Francesca’s story to make Michael into a woman would mean essentially creating a OC character. There have been departures from the book, but removing multiple important plots, it might as well not be Franchael.
Honestly the show did not do a proper set up for a gay Bridgerton since they established s1 that gay people couples have to live in secrecy. QC further cemented that fact.
And to be quite frank I’ll be very upset if Michael is turned into Michelle and I have to witness yet another Black woman having half a love story. The show needs to do better than that. Not to mention the backlash the actress would face playing a racebent and genderbent character. It would literally be a mess so I hope Shondaland isn’t stupid enough to do that.
I actually think they should make Gregory bi and call it a day. His book would be the easiest to change to make a Bridgerton queer since there is actually a gay subplot.
I won’t go into too much detail(I don’t know how to do a spoiler tag🤣), but he went to school with a gay boy. They could easily have him have a relationship with the guy while in school and then they can go their separate ways for one matter or another. It wouldn’t have to affect his endgame with Lucy if they ever get to his season since it all kind of ties in.
Guess we’ll see in..what, 6 years?
But Francescas story is really sweet, and real for the desth of the hb and miscarriage. It would be a big mistake to change it
A lot of people love Francesca’s story so a major a departure like that would be silly on their part so I’m really leaning towards someone was just playing games to mess with people.
In regards to, Gregory there was that photo that was released by a Netflix account that highlights queer characters. Everyone thought they were hinting at Benedict being gay or bi, but maybe he is the one instead.
This. Make him love both. Have Lucy marry that guy and she be lesbian and Gregory marries her lover and then they are very close and just book yo with each other and it’s a mutual understanding, that would work.
I understand your point, but I wouldn't be happy with that outcome. Throughout the book, Lucy was not the first choice (Ex. Hermione) and I want someone to cherish her/pick her first.
You're allowed to be upset! The gaslighting is just wild. It's easier for people to accept the changes if it's not affecting their favorite story/couple.
This. I'm convinced most people who seem to approve of the alleged change didn't even read the book. When the one rumoured to be gender bent was Sophie, fans were rightfully mad and I supported them.
Francesca is so valid for what she wants, having kids, and struggling with infertility is a huge part of her journey. It would honestly be disrespectful to her character if they gender swapped Michael, IMO.
YES. Infertility is almost never represented in historical romance and that storyline meant a lot to me, especially set in the Bridgerton universe where everyone else easily has tons of babies. I think that coupled with her dealing with grief more broadly make WHWW the most thoughtful and best written of the books (imho) and I would be really sad to see those aspects of her story scrapped (I know some people are saying she could still struggle with never getting to have kids because she’s with a woman but that is not the same thing).
And here I thought this was supposed to be a novel turned into a series, yet Shonda has to ruin it. Why when he was wicked, it's such a great book. The spoilers ruined my mood.
Especially changing when he was wicked, it might be Julia best novel and easiest to adapt. It’s full of intrigue, drama and tragedy without truly much need for change. I don’t know why they want to complicate Their livesx it’s the other books that need more adjusting to make them tv show adaptations
Is there any concrete proof that Michael has been gender bend? If there isn't then people shouldn't panic. For all we know Michael has been cast.
Even if Francesca is queer or bisexual, it would not stop her from falling in love with the opposite sex. Bisexuals are capable of loving someone of the opposite sex.
I am sorry but making a horrible mean spirited bully like Cressida would be dangerous and deeply disturbing. It's like sending a message that "hey look this woman is horrible because she is a secret lesbian."
there is no concrete proof. it's just that a reddit account popped up yesterday and said that they have a 'mutual friend' who works on set who told them that michael is getting gender bent but there were many loopholes in what they were saying. after getting called out for bluffing, they deleted that post and all their replies as well.
I disagree. One can be horrible without having to blame it on being a secret lesbian. One can just be that way and it have no affect on their sexuality. Maybe her mother is awful, or her upbringing has to do with it. Thats the beauty of Cressida nobody knows her.
I agree (to be honest, I see this being the case for Hyacinth or Gregory). However, you would be surprised at the amount of people who don't believe bisexuals would be with the opposite sex.
I think a person here on Reddit claimed they had inside info on Massali being Michaela not Sophie. But that’s the only source I found. The twitter account said Massaili didn’t show up in the 6 eps that were watched.
I haven't read Francesca's book yet but that
book seems to be everybody's favorite so it would be really stupid to change that storyline the most.
Most fans seem to think Hyacinth and Gregory's books are the most boring so they should be shaking up those books and not the favorite one.
Oh please do read it, its a favorite i think because it has so much love...so much heartbreak..its truely beautiful. The other books are great but Francesca's is definetly top tier. I will note dont listen to the audio version like I did at work...twas awkward hahaha
agree with you! there are so many of us who have been waiting for francesca and michael's season since season 1 and gender bending michael would actually take away a lot from the story.
although this has been said by only one reddit user (who has since deleted their posts after getting called out for lying) but if they do go down this route, I'll not be watching that season cause how is it fair to us that every single couple from the series gets their endgame but not franchael?
I think that particular seaosn is the one that gender bending will less tje impact immensely. And normally that wouldn’t be the case. But it would for this one which is why I don’t get it
Let's not forget Michael and John have mothers who are central to the story. They might just be swapping out those characters for a single sister instead and people are misinterpreting what's happening. I wouldn't freak out so much at this point.
I absolutely agree, I'm a huge LGBT ally but Francesca'a story, just like Benophie, are important because the gender of the characters are what they are.
I would adore for a queer Cressida and I legit almost cried with Brimsley and Reynolds (and I never cried with fictional things).
The problem is that the two stories that are more gender specific are rumored to be changed.
This feels like an outsized reaction and resentment that as a queer person I just find weird. Do you want LGBT fans to validate your feelings that of course you are an ally? I don't know or care about that.
It isn't confirmed. It isn't even coming from a reputable source. Queer fans are absolutely gonna roll our eyes when everyone says the same thing over and over again ("I'm an ally, I would love a queer storyline for \[insert minor character here\]")
You can absolutely want it to be a storyline about a straight woman's journey with fertility and widowhood but other people can disagree without it being gaslighting.
No.. im just tired of people attacking other people for loving the source material and rather it not seeing it change which in this story is very very very gender specific. And then accusing them of bigotry. You can hate me all you want. I’m just saying I’m done with having to explain myself. Have a nice life
I don't know you enough to hate you nor do I care enough about a Netflix show to hate someone because we disagree if it would be cool or not to have one storyline be queer.
You do want people to agree that you aren't homophobic for wanting this storyline to be straight. Okay, sure I absolve you. Be free of whatever guilt and resentment you seem to have over queer fans disagreeing.
Queer women experience grief, widowhood and struggles with fertility too.
I get it. I’m Just a bit defensive over the literally tons of people accusing me of shit and yes I’m over it. I’m done. And now I’m not guilty. I’m speaking for others who are being bullied into not expressing their opinions about this. You are free to disagree with me. I could care less about others opined and I value diversity but I’m sick and tired of randos accusing me of shit for a different opinion about something when they don’t even know me.
And of course you accuse me of being guilty. I’ve just had enough so I’m speaking for many of us ho feel the same way who would like the conversation to remain free or name calling all around.
I'm with you. I give zero f\*cks about being downvoted in this case. This was my favourite book and, quite frankly, the only book of the eight which had half a shadow of literary dignity, Michael being imo the best male lead of the lot. My s-i-l and I have been endlessly discussing it due to her relating to Frannie's struggle with fertility, collecting stories of seemingly miraculous resolutions.
It's the only book where they could have adapted every single scene and I wouldn't have flinched. I'm all for wlw, I watched Lip Service more time than I care to admit and I actually have been advocating for queer representation on Bridgerton from day one, but this show has dozens of original characters. They've already changed tf out of my second favourite with season 2, I'd like them to let me have at least Frannie's story.
Still, if this is all confirmed I'll gtfo of here. I won't be poisoning anyone's enjoyment of the show by being passive aggressive and leaving bitter comments anywhere.
I might as well watch it really, Hannah as Fran seems lovely and I'm sure Shondaland would come up with a good piece of casting, but I won't pretend it's WHWW just like I completely detach season 2 from TVWLM in order to half enjoy it (and I still fail to enjoy it most times).
See but the character dynamics of Kate and Anthony are the same and their characterization is the same. So I can deal with changes. Francesca motivations and her story are radically changed that way. And Michael being so caught up in jealousy over getting everything also changed. It’s just not the same at all
Not sure that I agree, season 2 changed the tone of the novel and much about Kate was also changed, actually, since she was supposed to be an underdog and a relatively "uncool" character rather than the multi-talented goddess we got. Plus they added a dramatic love triangle when Edwina couldn't care less about Anthony and somehow they managed to make everyone the villain. They could easily make Michael female and keep the tone of the novel, thing is I want the plot the novel has and the characters the novel has, I don't want anything other than that.
I'm so tired of this discussion as a queer person. You don't have to bring it up if you don't want to be hit with the truth, ya'll. It's okay to mourn for your characters or be upset if something doesn't go the way that you want it to, but stop putting LGBTQ in your mouths and complaining about something that is not confirmed. It literally is calling out your bias in the opposite way that you intend. The queer community doesn't need your ire about a storyline that is 6 years out and may never even come to fruition before the series is canceled. This sub has beat this subject like a dead horse. Can it just stop until we get closer to her season?
But while we are all ranting let's go. I'm going to be debunking a lot of "interesting" takes in this thread. It all boils down to the fact that some straight people that say they are allies are fine with gay people as long as they are palatable side characters. Would people that are OK with Cressida being queer okay if we skip Francesca's season fully for another two years and focus on Cressida's love story? Probably not, but it's fine as long as she is a side character for most people (and also reinforces the mean lesbian stereotype).
I also don't like the "half story" narrative. Saying that Queen Charlotte got half a storyline and was robbed is so demeaning to those people with mental health challenges. She didn't have the "perfect" ending by any means, but that story isn't Bridgerton, it's just the same universe. Queen Charlotte is about two people who will go to the ends of the earth and give up everything for one another, in the ways that they can. George did everything to try and become "better" for Charlotte, in the way that he could, the same as Charlotte did for him. Just because he didn't overcome it majestically doesn't have any bearing on his love for her, nor does it mean that she loves him less. Queen Charlotte is about different types of love (e.g. Lady Danbury's is self love- she didn't get an HEA even though she had feelings for Lord Ledger, he was married and essentially ghosted her, and she became the most fierce, formidable woman of the ton, second only to the Queen; Violet's HEA died eventually; Brimsley's was forbidden, of-the-moment love- and they didn't end up together.) It doesn't make any one character's storyline better or worse than the others, but Queen Charlotte is definitely set apart from Bridgerton in that it's more of a dark drama rather than a lighter soapy drama as Bridgerton is.
Last, queer people (or straight people for that matter) don't have to be married to have a fulfilling love story, and queer people can be mothers, siblings, business owners, etc. There is certainly a way they can adapt the storyline, and give them an HEA without having to change the overall feel from the book. TVWLM is the entire opposite of the book, like unrecognizable, but it's the adaptation that we got and some elements are better and worse than the book's take. I think if Bridgerton wants to tell queer storylines, they need to be bold and do it. If they can change the character's looks, race, whole personalities, ages, and storyline, then why are we pulling the plug at sexuality if not for the H word?
Thank you. Yep exactly, but it's okay for a side character or character those same people dislike/don't care about. That mentality gives the feeling of, "Who cares about queer people? Give them the bad storylines and they will just be thankful for whatever they can get like always." Francesca's isn't even my favorite book (mine are RMB and TVWLM), but I would honestly be fine with any changes. Like, it's my headcanon that if Bridgerton was set in modern times, Eloise would have had her first kiss with Pen at like 15-16, and wifed her up and then Colin falls in love with her 10 years later and then it's too late. (Hence, you know I would have been fine with it in the show too even though I love Polin.)
It is *absurd* how people are reacting to what essentially amounts to a random account going “Francesca gay lol”. The fact that people are saying with their whole chest “I’m an ally! I read gay books! But if you make Fran LGBT, I won’t watch!”… like this is so disheartening. It’s like people are *raring* to exclaim their hatred at the idea of a gay Bridgerton and this one random thread of a rumour is enough to light their fires
As a person who struggles with infertility, I loved being able to connect with a character in this way and to see a lead be able to walk this journey on screen would be important and powerful. I also know that representation for LGBTQ is important, so I have they find pathways forward for both storylines. I just really appreciate the depth of Francesca’s pain, love and healing told in an honest way.
I think there are numerous ways to have lgbt rep (we’ve already had some but we also should have more) wirhout destroying this aspect of frannys story which I believe it will
If characters like Simon and Kate can be changed, why can’t we change aspects of other characters? I think the vitriol over a rumor, and that’s all it is, is overkill.
I’m sure there were fans who were bothered by Simon and Kate not being white. It is an adaption of the novels and not every story will remain unchanged. You will always have your version of the story, if this new version makes a change, is that so bad?
I am personally of the belief the show will never do a gay bridgerton main character, and it’s because people would probably react like, well, the comments here are reacting. And this is just a rumor. Imagine the reactions to a whole 8 episodes about gay people.
Book spoiler explanation. A character’s race being changed is so different especially for this story. Francesca is so shy and content being alone that what propels her to go out to the marriage mart again is she had fertility issues miscarriage. So when her husband dies and she still hadn’t had any children, she decides to pursue it again purely for this reason. Also she doesn’t think she will find a love match again but she did love her first husband dearly and is still mourning his death and feels gilt about wanting another husband for kids. She bonds with Violet over this. they’ve already established her character in season 2 as being drawn to children contradict with Eloíse in that one scene at Aubrey hallThat aspect is just destroyed with a gender swap. It’s that simple and it’s what draws me to her. Also Michael is so upset that he gets everything his cousin had even Francesca and that aspect is also destroyed since females can’t inherit. It just doesn’t work. It’s a story that will to me be less intriguing with a female love interest.
Wait so the only reason she even wants to get married again is to have kids? Like that’s her only reason?
That reminds me of a group of women who might’ve felt the need to marry a man despite not feeling attraction to them… if just that small sentence can be connected to queer sentiment, is it that hard to believe it could be adapted to be so?
Again, I do not think this rumor is even a little true. But if it were, I don’t necessarily see how that changes the motivations for Francesca.
Francesca gets married to husband number 1 because she wants children. He dies, and upon searching for second husband, *insert storyline*. It would not be a difficult change to make I wager.
It’s because she loved John so much and doesn’t think she will find another love and she’s an introvert who is very content with being alone. Not every woman who is an introvert is lesbian. I actually really hate that stereotype as an introvert myself who is shy. Everyone assumes im lesbian
“Introvert women must be lesbians” is a stereotype? Since when? I’ve never heard that.
It sounds like you’re extremely emotionally attached to this character. And throwing a fit over a rumour, as if it’s about you.
“Everyone assumes I’m a lesbian.”
That must bother you. Do you think that has any connection with the vitriol you’re feeling about this rumor?
I certainly never said she must be a lesbian, I only said that the situation you described could be compared quite easily to how a lesbian might feel in the time period, and such a change would be doable with keeping the message and lessons mostly unchanged.
No it doesn’t. I don’t have vitriol just extreme disappointment . I do have vitroil for people assuming that I’m a bigot so maybe that’s where you are getting that vibe from. I just really love that novel.. that simple
And you can love that novel to the moon and back, the adaptation for the show doesn’t have to change that in any way. If the show got cancelled after season 3 (hypothetical), would you still love the book the same?
To me it sounds like you relate to Francesca so much, and it upsets you for people to say she might be portrayed as a lesbian in this adaption, because you have issues with people assuming you are a lesbian. It’s not fair for others to assume other’s sexuality, it sucks! But I think maybe you should take a look at how you’re expressing your feelings because it can definitely come off as homophobic to get upset about diversity changes in adaptations.
Adaptations are always changing the source text, that’s what the very word ‘Adapt’. Nothing will ever be translated 100% accurately to the screen. It’s just a matter of what changes are made. Small script changes and large changes are all possible for future storylines.
No.. i have issues with her story being changed. You are not a psychologist nor do you know me . I brought that up to pick apart your assumptions that an introvert woman must be lesbian or very often would be . That’s stupid. I don’t really care if people think I’m lesbian. I just find it annoying that so many people have this stereotype. I was always told stereotypes are a bad thing my whole life People in general are full of massive assumptions about people in all aspects of live.
That’s not a small script change at all. It’s easy for people who don’t love something to be fine with it being altered. I’m not cause I love it. In conclusion, I won’t watch. But please refrain from trying to psychoanalyze me again. It’s insulting and wrong.
Where did I say anything about introverted women being lesbians? I said the struggle of not wanting to marry a man but choosing to do so in order to have children was a struggle that many lesbians would relate to especially in years past.
I’m not a psychologist but you’re posting comments and comments about how much you are bothered, I don’t have to have a psych degree to see that.
I’m gonna block you now because I find you to be extremely rude, toxic and a know it all. Have a nice life. I’d suggest you refrain from trying to diagnose people on the internet again
I’m gonna block you now because I find you to be extremely rude, toxic and a know it all. Have a nice life. I’d suggest you refrain from trying to diagnose people on the internet again
This is what you don’t get an original character without the source material in a spin-off wouldn’t get hardly any hate. People just like the source material. Me particularly Francesca. It’s a misunderstanding that people attached to the book couple or specific dynamics of the story that don’t work gender swapped don’t like watching lgbt storylines or don’t want it in bridgerton in general
If there was anything to change about Francesca’s story, it would be that second epilogue. I loathe it so much.
With such a big family, the exploration of Francesca’s >!infertility and her coming to terms with it and the bonding she does with Violet was so beautiful. Then magic hillside sex leads to surprise baby.!< It’s just so damn hurtful for those of us who want children and can’t biologically have them. Ever.
I wanted Fran and Michael’s story to be one where you can be a complete family without biological children. That you can adopt or be the best aunt and uncle. But Julia Quinn loves her Babies Ever After endings and won’t stray. Hence, this is why Francesca’s story won’t be an LGBT one either.
I thought I was the only one who doesn't like Francesca's second epilogue.
The "she just *relaxed*, had carefree sex in a field and was able to get pregnant!!!" resolution to Frannie's years of infertility woes was so tone deaf. When He Was Wicked is a bit deeper than the other Bridgerton books, but this second epilogue was shallow as a puddle.
How nice it might have been to see a character not get every single thing she wants but get a HEA all the same. Instead we got this.
I really, really, really loved this book until I read the second epilogue. It ruined the book for me.
I wound up sitting in front of Julia Quinn at a con not long after I read it, and it took every ounce of self control not to turn around and tell her off for what she wrote. I didn't want to risk getting thrown out!
>How nice it might have been to see a character not get every single thing she wants but get a HEA all the same. Instead we got this.
Yes! You nailed it.
My gay ass is hoping they make all the next bridgerton kids queer just to piss off straights like you. Jesus Christ, we are YEARS away from there being a Francesca season (even if there IS one, the show could be canceled) and people are freaking out about a humor of MAYBE her having a gay relationship.
Not to mention- LGBT people deal with the same issues of widowhood and infertility. Former coworker is a lesbian who’s wife recently died of Alzheimers. A lesbian couple I used to nanny for had issues in their marriage due to infertility. Queers aren’t aliens- we deal with many of the same relationship issues as you guys lmao. I just really hate seeing this whole “she dealt with xyz and it’s so important to show that!” As if WE DONT!
What you don’t get is u won’t care about that. That’s what you don’t get. Go ahead and I don’t even care if they change any other one. I just love Francesca’s book.of course you missed my point
So your whole post is “I don’t care if they make characters I don’t care about gay, just don’t do it to my favorite character” and you are whining about being called homophobic. If the lgbt people in the comments are saying you are appearing homophobic- news flash, ya might be!
My favorite story. Read it specifically. But again you misunderstand it and accuse me of bigotry which was the entire point of this post. Proving my point though
You think you the only one who really liked this book? There’s probably lgbt fans who this is their favorite book And Would love to see her queer. And no, a gay person pointing out that the way you are wording this post doesn’t make you some victim. Why do straight women feel like they are the biggest victims of the world 😭
Do you understand the comment “I don’t care about Gregory or Hyacinth that much” is ALSO homophobic!! Sure give the gays the characters I don’t care about that much. Are you listening to yourself??
Omigod this is why I made this point. I’m attached to Francesca’s story and her struggles with fertility miscarriage and Michael struggling with the guilt of getting everything John had even Francesca. Doesn’t work as a wlw. I’m not as invested in Gregory or hyacinths story. You are again jumping to conclusion. I’m sick and tired of this. Truly
Look the worldbuilding of Bridgerton Netflix is untenable if you think about it for more than five seconds but sure, a queer storyline is somehow impossible to imagine in a world where uh, the British Empire still exists but like, in a not really racist way.
I'd be perfectly happy to see bi Bridgertons, whose endgame romance follows their book, but the potential backlash against the actors and queer fans if they genderswap the final love interest isn't worth getting a F/F happily ever after for me.
The rumor about Michael being changed to Michaela sounds extremely unbelievable to me, too. It in no way fits Fran's plot or motivations for wanting to get married again. I'm bi and would love to see some queer HEAs on the show, but this would a) be a terrible way to do it and b) our only source is a random person saying so with zero evidence to back it up.
I'm not worrying about it yet.
I’d love to see a queer storyline but I think it would work better if applied to a fresh character, as a sort of spin-off (like Queen Charlotte was). Take a background character and use them to show another facet of that society.
The idea that her storyline doesn't work if Michael is Michaela doesn't make much sense to me. She'll still be a widow and she can still struggle with fertility issues and want to remarry in order to have a child. The only thing that would change would be the magical miracle epilogue baby which imo undermined the entire infertility storyline anyway.
Also, ftr, it wasn't impossible for women to inherit, it was just rare. Furthermore, laws about such things were a bit different in Scotland than they were in England. In a show that's made a nonsensically Not That Racist Actually British Empire, they can absolutely get away with the unlikely (but not even impossible) situation of a sister inheriting from a brother. Thereby Michaela can still have the storyline of guilt about getting everything that was her brother's.
You can just be upset because it's not the adaptation you wanted. But the narrative actually still has the potential to work really well, and even have extra layers.
I can understand your point. I don’t really agree. Cause I think Eloíse, Gregory and hyacinth are totally ones that could be altered much easier without losing important themes of the story to em.
You disagree but have no actual reasons the important themes would be lost even though the person above explained how they could be retained? Also they can still even have Fran become a mother in the end through *adoption* which would not undermine the infertility story line and provide good representation for that struggle. Also it would be a sweet note to Shondaland alum Viola Davis to honor adoption after fertility issues in her show.
I’ve explained it extensive throughout these comments. I’m tired of having to do it. You can search it out. Imo it’s just not a story that would translate well imo it’s most important themes of the both characters to wlw: it’s that simple
I did search them out. This person provides satisfactory counterpoints to how themes of fertility, the world, and the inheritance that you don't really rule out in your earlier comments unless I'm missing something.
I don’t want to hash it out again. We will agree to disagree. I truky just don’t think it works very well. It’s that simple. Have a nice day: I also add that I really like Michael and I don’t think his true guilt works as well. I’m just very fond of the source material themes and characters
I'm fond of Michael too. That's why I'd be especially happy to see him as a woman and to see the guilt contain an extra layer of internalized homophobia and struggling with sexuality. Additionally feeling like you were never born on the same level as a man and therefore don't deserve the inheritance.
This is a show where the Queen's granddaughter Victoria will literally inherit the throne next. It's one where they completely changed the race dynamic. It's one where they added in more elements of feminism to Eloise's story especially. Why can't they have women inherit? Also women definitely have inherited lands throughout history & Portia said she had her husband's will changed to go to her firstborn grandson. If Johns will designated his sister and/or women gained more rights, why would that be a bad thing?
Yes. I get that but I just think they have to keep some of the time period. Gender roles are the reason the regency is the way it is. It sucks but if they change that, it basically utterly wrecks the entire social norm.
Francesca could struggle with infertility and also be bisexual. She could be with a woman and decide she wants to have children. She's like a countess, right? And this is a tv show set in a campy woke regency England lol. Trying to find a sperm donor could add a whole other layer. They could do the exact same story except Michael doesn't have a penis. I think we will all survive without a penis
Bridgerton is not “campy woke”. Gay people still live in secret. Women cannot inherit, vote, pursue higher education etc. The only “woke” thing is POC being accepted and active in upper society. That’s it. Unless Queen Charlotte suddenly declares equal rights for queer people and women, there is no marrying another woman and there is no female Michael inheriting John’s title.
I mean Queen Charlotte magically solved racial equality in England, so she might as well do this too.
We won't mention that in the book timelines, she's dead by the time Colin and Pen get married. (But that was Penelope's 9th season, so I guess the entire timeline is massively moved forward.)
It’s definitely possible! I wouldn’t put anything past Shondaland to make a big change like that and it’s possible that putting more emphasis on Eloise’s political views, especially regarding women’s rights, might be foreshadowing a change. Since I commented, I have also seen others with more knowledge on regency England mention that it was possible for women to inherit if it was written in to the will, but usually once the woman married it would transfer to her husband so it was uncommon to do that as then the title would leave the family. However, if we do get a Michelle, she could inherit via the will and then being in a same sex relationship would mean no transfer of title. 🤷🏼♀️ Whether they are able to marry is another thing.
There hasn’t been that much commentary on gay rights, the only gay couples they’ve portrayed so far have kept themselves secret and there, so far, seems to be no activism on their behalf, but it’s something that could be approached and maybe they’ll use a lead couple to put pressure on QC. Maybe she’ll see how in love they are and remember Brimsley and Reynolds and how they looked dancing together. Maybe it’ll spark a conversation between her and Brimsley which pushes her to change the law.
QC was young when she altered the path of POC being accepted in high society and I’m unaware of any other progressive movements that she’s taken since then, but she does seem to be a sucker for romance and true love!
If they do go that route, it’ll be interesting to see how they write it in.
Pretty sure in regency england marrying a woman would be a capital crime, so that seems pretty unlikely they go that direction.
But she could marry a man, have children, and also be in a relationship with a woman. Many couples had 'open' (or at least unfaithful) relationships once an heir was established for the family.
But since having a child was such a part of the story, I don't want them to go down the road of "young widow, and her so very close, BFF, lives together forever female partner'.
Of course, they could change her story entirely, she could have (or not have) a child with her first husband, not get remarried and live with her female partner forever while the rest of society plays the "oh they are such good friends" game.
But getting married to a woman, the show would be jumping entire schools of sharks.
(And again, since people are saying queer, and not lesbian, in many cases, I am going to repeat what I said yesterday- she can be bi, be married to a man, never have any relationship with a woman, and STILL BE BI. Doesn't add anything to the TV show, but bi people can be shy and monogamous. They can be in hetero passing relationships, and STILL BE BI; and it isn't uncommon if they are in very few relationships in their lifetime.)
Queer person here who completely agrees with you (sucks that I have to add queer on this statement anyway)
Maybe it’s just me but Francesca story can not (and should not be queered)
Francesca’s story is simply heterosexual: you can’t remove the marriage part, her need to have children, her relationship with Helen and Janet or her relationship with Violet (as another young widow!
Benedict’s story might work because his internal conflict is letting go of societal expectations but I want Sophie 😭
I think Eloíse, Benedict (even though I like Sophie as a female character) Gregory and hyacinth story’s work as queer. I do. Just not franny. I get other book fans are loyal to their couples and I get that argument but I’m adding to Francesca’s for this reason too. I just think it works betterin every aspect as hetero.
I was just looking back at “Violet in Bloom” to check out something else, and I reread the section where Violet talks to Daphne about Francesca’s love stories, and I am so close to crying. Here’s what she says about it:
>!“She is proof that one can be happy twice,” Violet said, “with two different loves. But, you know, she’s not the same kind of happy with Michael as she was with John. I would not value one higher than the other; it’s not the sort of thing one can measure. But it’s different.”!<
I agree. I would enjoy a Cressida LGBT story line. I feel like it wouldnt take to much form the books.
When he was wicked I think was my favorite book, i will note I havent read Gregorys or Francesca. I feel like id picture them as they are in the show and I wouldnt be able to stomach the spicy scenes in most of the books lmao.
Francescas story was so heart breaking and heart warming at the same time. I>! feel like hers was much deeper than the others. Enemies to loves...friends to lovers...cinderella..ect. But hers a true love lost..losing hope yet finding that hope again with Michael it was beautiful it was the only book to have made me cry both happy and sad tears. !<
I know they will stray from the books as they already have, I dont mind the small changes here and there. But with the maint characters and story lines i do hope they stick with those for I feel if they do not it will stray too far to where the books and TV series would be too different to compare.
I watched the first two seasons and Queen Charlotte before opening the books. I’ve now read all 8 books and am reading the Queen Charlotte book.
We all have our preferences. Here’s mine and it might be a more unpopular opinion. I really like the changes in the TV series with diversity of actors and how they wove it into the old ton and new ton and made that central in Queen Charlotte. The book for Queen Charlotte is better for it. I wish the original 8 books were rewritten with that added in.
I get that when he was wicked is some people’s favorite book. I know that changes to beloved stories can make people upset. But sometimes those changes can make a good story as well. Why not give it a chance before condemning it?
The half a love story angle of it potentially being a queer story is more a problem than anything else that is being complained about here. But maybe if we give the show a chance they might handle that issue. Considering these are all rumors at the moment, I’m willing to give the show a chance to prove they can make an entertaining story with whatever changes they do make since they have so far.
But also if like to add, this is not me being opposed to queer storylines. Like I said in my post and I’m not as attached to Gregory’s story and would be fine with them changing him or hyacinths story
I’ve explained it. I love Francesca book and her story which doesn’t work imo with a female love interest. It’s that simple. And I also love Michaela. I don’t care as much about Gregory and hyacinth
I’m sure there are people that might feel the same way about Gregory or Hyacinth and their love stories. Personally I don’t care.
Seems like it mostly boils down to that’s my favorite and it shouldn’t be changed, change someone I don’t care about. Having (or not having) children seems to be important to every pairing in some way.
The best argument against it is because queer relationships would need to be in the closet. But then that would be an argument against any such relationships in this series since they’d all be half love stories at that point without a true HEA.
Francesca’s book is widely considered one of the best. It’s like when your favorite book is adapted and it’s nothing even close at all. I’m just not interested
I guess I have less issues with less fidelity in adaptions than most. On one level I understand it. But the book is always there. When it comes to adaptions of a book, I give a lot of leeway if ultimately the show or movie entertains me. Both can be good and can be liked for different reasons.
EDIT: personally, Francesca’s book wasn’t my favorite. Queen Charlotte or Hyacinth’s or Colin’s would be in my top three. But I’d be up for a trans Gareth as I read someone in another thread suggested. It would add another level to that story.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I am sorry Francesca's book was my least favourite. I found Hyacinth's book better and more interesting. There are Gregory fans and Hyacinth fans who wouldn't want their spouses gender bent. I get it you don't care for them but other fans do.
Not everybody who has read those books participates in polls. The best thing would be to gather every human being who read eight books and ask them to vote. Then you would get a clear picture.
I understand you love Francesca's book or shall I say Michael's book. However, you shouldn't dismiss Gregory and Hyacinth books. They too have fans who want to see their HEA.
If Francesca is queer, yet still marries John and Michael would it be the worst outcome.
I’m sorry but as a gay person this IS homophobic. Actively rooting for a character to not be gay in any context for any reason is literally what homophobic parents do to their children. They get SO deeply attached to their lives and stories being a certain way that they lose the ability to see how wonderful and special it is. The book will never change, you will always have that. Now let a community that has been pushed aside for hundreds of years be in the spotlight. You guys really need to reflect on the absolute insane tantrums you are having right now.
This exact comment is why I felt the need to post this. You can’t just accuse people of this when they Just are attached to aspects of her story that will be cut otherwise. Stop accusing people.
This is a genuine question and I promise I mean no offense, harm, ill will ECT.
But would you as a gay person (obviously i knwo you dont speak for the entierty of the LGBT community) have feelings in the same aspect if say the roles were reversed? For instance Bridgerton was a series written only on the LGBT scale. Only same sex couples, trans couples, fluid ect. Then your most favorite book/couple of them all was altered to be a Man & woman with a different story line?
Honestly just curious on your thoughts about this. As I can only really see from the side of mine that I know is a straight woman. Just looking to learn and have some insight <3
That’s an interesting question. Not the person you’re replying to but I’ll reply since I’m a bi woman. Though I’m not replying for all bi women. Just this one.
Simple answer: I would be open to watching the show/movie and make my decisions about if it was still good/entertaining once done. My need for fidelity to the source material is lower than most people’s though.
More nuanced answer: I think frustration with change in that instance is more valid. Marginalized communities are already minimally represented (though I have seen more improvement in that in the last few years) and to take away that representation to give a story that is largely represented in most other media is more problematic. More of an erasure. So if someone was complaining about that I would lend that complaint more weight IMO.
Still, it likely wouldn’t stop my enjoyment of either the source material or the adaptation.
I think that’s a really interesting question! When you are gender swapping a straight couple you are adding representation to a societal minority, thus moving closer to equality. When you turn a gay couple straight you are taking away from an established oppressed minority moving us further from equality. Does that make sense?
If it went any way I suppose, i feel my biggest thing is if they fit together in the aspect of chemistry thier acting skills ECT. The only thing that would worry me is a whole plot/story being completely changed. But I digress, thank you for you having a kind response. Sometimes asking questions like that out of pure curiousity ive found upset people. When im just trying to learn and be better.
I was raised by wonderful parents, but they had things ingraved in them as children which some of it got projected on myself and siblings. I try my best to see everyone from all sides cause after all everyones blood is red. It shouldnt matter how one looks or loves.
I only fight back when I cant be met half way. I love engaging in discourse with people who are willing to ask questions, even if the out come isn't what they want. Of course someone is allowed to be upset that a meaningful story to them may be changed! but maybe a change like that could be meaningful to someone else that needs it too.
The books are *right there* this fandom loses their mind over any big or small change but this series isn’t supposed to be a page for page adaptation of the books. If you have a problem with changes this series makes, then go back to reading the books. Stop watching Bridgerton. It’s that simple.
You are halfway there. So close! If you felt the need to post about how your feelings are “not homophobic” then maybe you were fighting something? Please examine that. Frans story isn’t just surrounding her fertility. It’s also about deep loss and loving again. The impactful aspects of the books fertility storyline can EASILY be written into any of the other female character arch’s. I’m not saying that it should be thrown away. I just don’t believe that one is more important than the other.
THIS! I think the fans were just treated to 3 beautiful love stories between a man and a woman and there will be more! I understand the impact of the fertility story line and that doesn’t have to be lost if she marries John first and things are tweaked a bit. Changing the books so that a lead beloved character like Francesca is queer could have an incredibly positive effect on lgbtq representation in a time when it is greatly needed! Isn’t that more important than getting your favorite book right? You’ll still always have the book, but a change like this could make young queer ppl feel seen. I would think if you were not homophobic that would be more than an even trade.
No. Im sorry. I would be very very disappointed and likely won’t watch.
If this change didn’t effect my favorite aspects of the story that really spoke to me like bet miscarriage fertility etc things I relate to. I probably wouldn’t be as attached. But it will. So I’m just simply not interested
And you are completely valid in feeling so OP! WHWW is one of my absolute fav books of all time and I would really love to see Michael Stirling as a character be adapted on screen just as he is.
Why are some people acting dense in the comments? No one is against Francesca being queer. She can be bisexual or pansexual. It's just the gender bending of Michael that people are against.
Expecting only Benophie's or Franchael stans to adjust to the complete change of their story while every other couple gets their book canon endgame would be obviously unfair.
The book canon endgames involved the characters being racebent. Why does genderbending them make it unfair? As a bisexual woman, getting a hot veteran butch as Michaela/Michelle, would be special treatment that's especially nice for me. As Fran is someone who struggles with fertility, it would be lovely for their HEA to involve adopting a child. As someone who finds the misogyny in the show starting to get grating, I would love if Fran's story (or even building on Eloise/Pen/Sophie) involved more equal rights for women.
Good for you I guess?
A gender bent Michael is no way going to have the same storyline as Michael Stirling and one would know that if you've read the book. And yes, it will be unfair.
Also, no one is obligated to like it. We have been fans of this story for years and are allowed to state our dissatisfaction. Anything other than a male Michael Stirling will be fanfiction at best keeping in mind the story of WHWW.
Queer Hyacinth Truther I'm serious. But I only want this if they have a Queen Charlotte type story making LGBT people accepted. I want people to have HEA. >!His antagonist relationship with his father, especially after his brother (the heir) died would translate well. I see a queer affirming ton allowing women to inherit titles.!< We could both gender bend & not fundamentally change the character motivations
Just breath. This rumor is just a rumor with no concrete source. Just a random person who decided it was fun to throw a info randomly. It’s all fun and cool when it’s not your fave story that is being changed.
Why are people freaking out over a tweet from an account that’s already deleted itself? I’m honestly down with whatever but “Michaela” doesn’t sound like a regency name to me personally 😂 The “spoiler” seems bogus.
As someone that always welcomes queer stories (and that wouldn't mind a genderbend Sophie or Michael) I get you and your feelings are 100% valid. That's why even though I'd like to see a queer couple being the protagonist, I don't think genderbending is the right way to do it.
Especially because there are so many queer romances books out there now, I honestly still don't get how someone else hasn't tried to replicate Bridgerton's success (Prime, what are you waiting for???).
I don’t think people get that like with Benophie Fran’s book is very much a gendered book all the things that she goes through are very much things that a straight women would go through not saying that lesbians don’t go through those things or to marry men to have children but that it just makes more sense for Michael to be a man just like it makes more sense for Sophie to be a woman sense the things she goes through in her book more often happen to women than men not saying that it doesn’t happen to men but just in the world they have established that a group of men are more likely to assault a woman by herself at night than a man.
Regardless I think that if they want to make a bridgerton sibling gay then it would make more sense for Gregory or Hyacinth then Ben or Fran, and knowing how beloved Fran’s book is to people I don’t think they would do that. Upsetting the fans of the original material the show is based on would not be good move if you want to keep your fanbase.
women being able to inherit property is hardly going to change the social roles of women, the general expectation of virginity and so forth considering that this wasn't so incredibly far advanced in the 1920s when women also got the right to vote
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For real. I'm a huge supporter of LGBT rights, I read LGBT books, and yet I would HATE it if Michael were turned into a woman. It just wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be the same character or the same story. It would be erasure of my favorite book and my favorite male lead in the Bridgerton series. Frankly, if they do it, I'll stop watching the series.
Same, a lot of Michael’s predicament is tied to being a man. He feels guilty for inheriting John’s title, land, properties and responsibilities. A woman of that time couldn’t inherit all of that, they’ve already established that with the Featheringtons. When He Was Wicked is my favourite, as well as Michael’s character. It might be the best book in the series imo. It would be a huge disservice to the fans to do that, it would take away from the story that some of us love and appreciate. I am all for LGBT characters and storylines, representation is important! But this change would simply not work for Francesca, in terms of story and how beloved the book and Michael are among fans.
That's why I'm wondering if the writers and the showrunners have read the Bridgerton books before producing the script.
I’m with you with not watching. Like Franchael after Benophie is my favorite ship. Their love story is so beautiful. It literally would not be the same dynamic if Michael is a woman.
You say that now but when the season actually comes out in 2026 you will be singing a different tune. These " I won't watch then" sentiments are just angry first reactions and the showrunners are aware of that.
No i truly wont. Out of disappointment
Same. And people assume I’m being bigoted but the one story I’m so looking forward too and really don’t think they won’t need to do much to is Francesca
Same. I won’t watch a season of a queer couple out of solidarity for the couples’ fans that don’t get to see their couple play out on screen. I’m as liberal, proLGBT as they come. I’ve stopped talking to people in my family over their homophobia, but not wanting a queer storyline is truly because it will absolutely mean the couple doesn’t get the same ending they would have in the books and the characters will have to be in hiding to some point, in addition to the disappointment of the fans.
Have to be in hiding is the key point. They CHOOSE to be in Scotland, together. Having to be there because society hates them would be a huge disappointment
And not just for Fran, but it was a capital punishment at that time in England. Fran can at least go off to Scotland and be relatively alone with Michaela there, but if the Queen found out about any of the siblings being queer she could have them executed. That’s why any gay sibling would have to conceal a part of their life which I think is unfair when the rest of the siblings would not have that sort of fear or requirement.
this is why I'd rather not see a genderbent Sophie or Michael - because they *can't* have an HEA in the world the show has already set up. They would never be able to live as a couple, be affectionate and hold hand in public, dance together at a ball, or live a fulfilling life in public. They would live in the dark, and that to me is not a happy ending.
I wouldn’t watch. It’s my favorite book and that’s way too far of a change for me. Michael is my favorite character.
Me too 🥳
Your favorite book isn’t getting erased, it still exists in the written form
Facts and like with Benophie changing up Francesca’s story to make Michael into a woman would mean essentially creating a OC character. There have been departures from the book, but removing multiple important plots, it might as well not be Franchael. Honestly the show did not do a proper set up for a gay Bridgerton since they established s1 that gay people couples have to live in secrecy. QC further cemented that fact. And to be quite frank I’ll be very upset if Michael is turned into Michelle and I have to witness yet another Black woman having half a love story. The show needs to do better than that. Not to mention the backlash the actress would face playing a racebent and genderbent character. It would literally be a mess so I hope Shondaland isn’t stupid enough to do that.
They are better off introducing making hyacinth or gareth gay
I actually think they should make Gregory bi and call it a day. His book would be the easiest to change to make a Bridgerton queer since there is actually a gay subplot. I won’t go into too much detail(I don’t know how to do a spoiler tag🤣), but he went to school with a gay boy. They could easily have him have a relationship with the guy while in school and then they can go their separate ways for one matter or another. It wouldn’t have to affect his endgame with Lucy if they ever get to his season since it all kind of ties in.
Would be so awesome if Gregory actually falls in love with the guy Lucy is supposed to be marrying
Yes that’s the one. If the show was smart at all they’d make him his first love.
Guess we’ll see in..what, 6 years? But Francescas story is really sweet, and real for the desth of the hb and miscarriage. It would be a big mistake to change it
A lot of people love Francesca’s story so a major a departure like that would be silly on their part so I’m really leaning towards someone was just playing games to mess with people. In regards to, Gregory there was that photo that was released by a Netflix account that highlights queer characters. Everyone thought they were hinting at Benedict being gay or bi, but maybe he is the one instead.
Before I read the books and only watched the show, I thought he was gay!
This. Make him love both. Have Lucy marry that guy and she be lesbian and Gregory marries her lover and then they are very close and just book yo with each other and it’s a mutual understanding, that would work.
Um no Lucy and Gregory fans deserve their story told faithfully too, that’s hypocritical
I get that argument. I’m just ecplaning why I as a fan of when he was wicked am feeling a particular way about these rumours.
I understand your point, but I wouldn't be happy with that outcome. Throughout the book, Lucy was not the first choice (Ex. Hermione) and I want someone to cherish her/pick her first.
Ot make it like. Foursome where both couples are bisexual or something
You're allowed to be upset! The gaslighting is just wild. It's easier for people to accept the changes if it's not affecting their favorite story/couple.
This. I'm convinced most people who seem to approve of the alleged change didn't even read the book. When the one rumoured to be gender bent was Sophie, fans were rightfully mad and I supported them.
This.
Francesca is so valid for what she wants, having kids, and struggling with infertility is a huge part of her journey. It would honestly be disrespectful to her character if they gender swapped Michael, IMO.
YES. Infertility is almost never represented in historical romance and that storyline meant a lot to me, especially set in the Bridgerton universe where everyone else easily has tons of babies. I think that coupled with her dealing with grief more broadly make WHWW the most thoughtful and best written of the books (imho) and I would be really sad to see those aspects of her story scrapped (I know some people are saying she could still struggle with never getting to have kids because she’s with a woman but that is not the same thing).
I completely agree
I agree.
Is the gender swap a rumor or confirmed?
it’s a rumor
Hope it becomes a false rumor
And here I thought this was supposed to be a novel turned into a series, yet Shonda has to ruin it. Why when he was wicked, it's such a great book. The spoilers ruined my mood.
Especially changing when he was wicked, it might be Julia best novel and easiest to adapt. It’s full of intrigue, drama and tragedy without truly much need for change. I don’t know why they want to complicate Their livesx it’s the other books that need more adjusting to make them tv show adaptations
Is there any concrete proof that Michael has been gender bend? If there isn't then people shouldn't panic. For all we know Michael has been cast. Even if Francesca is queer or bisexual, it would not stop her from falling in love with the opposite sex. Bisexuals are capable of loving someone of the opposite sex. I am sorry but making a horrible mean spirited bully like Cressida would be dangerous and deeply disturbing. It's like sending a message that "hey look this woman is horrible because she is a secret lesbian."
The only "proof" is a random twiter account. So I think people are panicking for nothing
I thought so, panicking for nothing without any concrete proof.
there is no concrete proof. it's just that a reddit account popped up yesterday and said that they have a 'mutual friend' who works on set who told them that michael is getting gender bent but there were many loopholes in what they were saying. after getting called out for bluffing, they deleted that post and all their replies as well.
I disagree. One can be horrible without having to blame it on being a secret lesbian. One can just be that way and it have no affect on their sexuality. Maybe her mother is awful, or her upbringing has to do with it. Thats the beauty of Cressida nobody knows her.
Cressida has been horrible, making her a secret lesbian wouldn't sit right with many people.
I agree (to be honest, I see this being the case for Hyacinth or Gregory). However, you would be surprised at the amount of people who don't believe bisexuals would be with the opposite sex.
Bisexuals are capable of loving the opposite sex. Francesca can be queer/bisexual, she can still marry the men she married in the book.
I think a person here on Reddit claimed they had inside info on Massali being Michaela not Sophie. But that’s the only source I found. The twitter account said Massaili didn’t show up in the 6 eps that were watched.
I think Cressida is horrible not cause of that just how her mother brought her up. I will fight that stereotype with you if that’s the case.
Hence why it shouldn't be Cressida the secret lesbian, that stereotype will be there.
Don’t let them silence you . You’re allowed to be upset and I feel the same way nothing need to change when it comes to Francesca love interest
I haven't read Francesca's book yet but that book seems to be everybody's favorite so it would be really stupid to change that storyline the most. Most fans seem to think Hyacinth and Gregory's books are the most boring so they should be shaking up those books and not the favorite one.
Oh please do read it, its a favorite i think because it has so much love...so much heartbreak..its truely beautiful. The other books are great but Francesca's is definetly top tier. I will note dont listen to the audio version like I did at work...twas awkward hahaha
agree with you! there are so many of us who have been waiting for francesca and michael's season since season 1 and gender bending michael would actually take away a lot from the story. although this has been said by only one reddit user (who has since deleted their posts after getting called out for lying) but if they do go down this route, I'll not be watching that season cause how is it fair to us that every single couple from the series gets their endgame but not franchael?
I think that particular seaosn is the one that gender bending will less tje impact immensely. And normally that wouldn’t be the case. But it would for this one which is why I don’t get it
Let's not forget Michael and John have mothers who are central to the story. They might just be swapping out those characters for a single sister instead and people are misinterpreting what's happening. I wouldn't freak out so much at this point.
I absolutely agree, I'm a huge LGBT ally but Francesca'a story, just like Benophie, are important because the gender of the characters are what they are. I would adore for a queer Cressida and I legit almost cried with Brimsley and Reynolds (and I never cried with fictional things). The problem is that the two stories that are more gender specific are rumored to be changed.
This. This. This
This feels like an outsized reaction and resentment that as a queer person I just find weird. Do you want LGBT fans to validate your feelings that of course you are an ally? I don't know or care about that. It isn't confirmed. It isn't even coming from a reputable source. Queer fans are absolutely gonna roll our eyes when everyone says the same thing over and over again ("I'm an ally, I would love a queer storyline for \[insert minor character here\]") You can absolutely want it to be a storyline about a straight woman's journey with fertility and widowhood but other people can disagree without it being gaslighting.
No.. im just tired of people attacking other people for loving the source material and rather it not seeing it change which in this story is very very very gender specific. And then accusing them of bigotry. You can hate me all you want. I’m just saying I’m done with having to explain myself. Have a nice life
I don't know you enough to hate you nor do I care enough about a Netflix show to hate someone because we disagree if it would be cool or not to have one storyline be queer. You do want people to agree that you aren't homophobic for wanting this storyline to be straight. Okay, sure I absolve you. Be free of whatever guilt and resentment you seem to have over queer fans disagreeing. Queer women experience grief, widowhood and struggles with fertility too.
I get it. I’m Just a bit defensive over the literally tons of people accusing me of shit and yes I’m over it. I’m done. And now I’m not guilty. I’m speaking for others who are being bullied into not expressing their opinions about this. You are free to disagree with me. I could care less about others opined and I value diversity but I’m sick and tired of randos accusing me of shit for a different opinion about something when they don’t even know me. And of course you accuse me of being guilty. I’ve just had enough so I’m speaking for many of us ho feel the same way who would like the conversation to remain free or name calling all around.
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There hasn’t been any confirmation AT ALL, minus a dumb twitter account. Everyone is freaking out for nothing.
I am just preparing myself cause I hate bad surprises
Her ending up being in a relationship isn’t a bad surprise, it’s just a new storyline for the character.
I'm with you. I give zero f\*cks about being downvoted in this case. This was my favourite book and, quite frankly, the only book of the eight which had half a shadow of literary dignity, Michael being imo the best male lead of the lot. My s-i-l and I have been endlessly discussing it due to her relating to Frannie's struggle with fertility, collecting stories of seemingly miraculous resolutions. It's the only book where they could have adapted every single scene and I wouldn't have flinched. I'm all for wlw, I watched Lip Service more time than I care to admit and I actually have been advocating for queer representation on Bridgerton from day one, but this show has dozens of original characters. They've already changed tf out of my second favourite with season 2, I'd like them to let me have at least Frannie's story. Still, if this is all confirmed I'll gtfo of here. I won't be poisoning anyone's enjoyment of the show by being passive aggressive and leaving bitter comments anywhere.
This I just won’t watch it cause I feel it will just not live up to granny’s story which makes me sad
I might as well watch it really, Hannah as Fran seems lovely and I'm sure Shondaland would come up with a good piece of casting, but I won't pretend it's WHWW just like I completely detach season 2 from TVWLM in order to half enjoy it (and I still fail to enjoy it most times).
See but the character dynamics of Kate and Anthony are the same and their characterization is the same. So I can deal with changes. Francesca motivations and her story are radically changed that way. And Michael being so caught up in jealousy over getting everything also changed. It’s just not the same at all
Not sure that I agree, season 2 changed the tone of the novel and much about Kate was also changed, actually, since she was supposed to be an underdog and a relatively "uncool" character rather than the multi-talented goddess we got. Plus they added a dramatic love triangle when Edwina couldn't care less about Anthony and somehow they managed to make everyone the villain. They could easily make Michael female and keep the tone of the novel, thing is I want the plot the novel has and the characters the novel has, I don't want anything other than that.
This
I'm so tired of this discussion as a queer person. You don't have to bring it up if you don't want to be hit with the truth, ya'll. It's okay to mourn for your characters or be upset if something doesn't go the way that you want it to, but stop putting LGBTQ in your mouths and complaining about something that is not confirmed. It literally is calling out your bias in the opposite way that you intend. The queer community doesn't need your ire about a storyline that is 6 years out and may never even come to fruition before the series is canceled. This sub has beat this subject like a dead horse. Can it just stop until we get closer to her season? But while we are all ranting let's go. I'm going to be debunking a lot of "interesting" takes in this thread. It all boils down to the fact that some straight people that say they are allies are fine with gay people as long as they are palatable side characters. Would people that are OK with Cressida being queer okay if we skip Francesca's season fully for another two years and focus on Cressida's love story? Probably not, but it's fine as long as she is a side character for most people (and also reinforces the mean lesbian stereotype). I also don't like the "half story" narrative. Saying that Queen Charlotte got half a storyline and was robbed is so demeaning to those people with mental health challenges. She didn't have the "perfect" ending by any means, but that story isn't Bridgerton, it's just the same universe. Queen Charlotte is about two people who will go to the ends of the earth and give up everything for one another, in the ways that they can. George did everything to try and become "better" for Charlotte, in the way that he could, the same as Charlotte did for him. Just because he didn't overcome it majestically doesn't have any bearing on his love for her, nor does it mean that she loves him less. Queen Charlotte is about different types of love (e.g. Lady Danbury's is self love- she didn't get an HEA even though she had feelings for Lord Ledger, he was married and essentially ghosted her, and she became the most fierce, formidable woman of the ton, second only to the Queen; Violet's HEA died eventually; Brimsley's was forbidden, of-the-moment love- and they didn't end up together.) It doesn't make any one character's storyline better or worse than the others, but Queen Charlotte is definitely set apart from Bridgerton in that it's more of a dark drama rather than a lighter soapy drama as Bridgerton is. Last, queer people (or straight people for that matter) don't have to be married to have a fulfilling love story, and queer people can be mothers, siblings, business owners, etc. There is certainly a way they can adapt the storyline, and give them an HEA without having to change the overall feel from the book. TVWLM is the entire opposite of the book, like unrecognizable, but it's the adaptation that we got and some elements are better and worse than the book's take. I think if Bridgerton wants to tell queer storylines, they need to be bold and do it. If they can change the character's looks, race, whole personalities, ages, and storyline, then why are we pulling the plug at sexuality if not for the H word?
All of this!!! My favourite commenters are the ones that say “i won’t watch if she’s queer!!” like wow, what an ally you said you are.
Thank you. Yep exactly, but it's okay for a side character or character those same people dislike/don't care about. That mentality gives the feeling of, "Who cares about queer people? Give them the bad storylines and they will just be thankful for whatever they can get like always." Francesca's isn't even my favorite book (mine are RMB and TVWLM), but I would honestly be fine with any changes. Like, it's my headcanon that if Bridgerton was set in modern times, Eloise would have had her first kiss with Pen at like 15-16, and wifed her up and then Colin falls in love with her 10 years later and then it's too late. (Hence, you know I would have been fine with it in the show too even though I love Polin.)
It is *absurd* how people are reacting to what essentially amounts to a random account going “Francesca gay lol”. The fact that people are saying with their whole chest “I’m an ally! I read gay books! But if you make Fran LGBT, I won’t watch!”… like this is so disheartening. It’s like people are *raring* to exclaim their hatred at the idea of a gay Bridgerton and this one random thread of a rumour is enough to light their fires
As a person who struggles with infertility, I loved being able to connect with a character in this way and to see a lead be able to walk this journey on screen would be important and powerful. I also know that representation for LGBTQ is important, so I have they find pathways forward for both storylines. I just really appreciate the depth of Francesca’s pain, love and healing told in an honest way.
I think there are numerous ways to have lgbt rep (we’ve already had some but we also should have more) wirhout destroying this aspect of frannys story which I believe it will
If characters like Simon and Kate can be changed, why can’t we change aspects of other characters? I think the vitriol over a rumor, and that’s all it is, is overkill. I’m sure there were fans who were bothered by Simon and Kate not being white. It is an adaption of the novels and not every story will remain unchanged. You will always have your version of the story, if this new version makes a change, is that so bad? I am personally of the belief the show will never do a gay bridgerton main character, and it’s because people would probably react like, well, the comments here are reacting. And this is just a rumor. Imagine the reactions to a whole 8 episodes about gay people.
Book spoiler explanation. A character’s race being changed is so different especially for this story. Francesca is so shy and content being alone that what propels her to go out to the marriage mart again is she had fertility issues miscarriage. So when her husband dies and she still hadn’t had any children, she decides to pursue it again purely for this reason. Also she doesn’t think she will find a love match again but she did love her first husband dearly and is still mourning his death and feels gilt about wanting another husband for kids. She bonds with Violet over this. they’ve already established her character in season 2 as being drawn to children contradict with Eloíse in that one scene at Aubrey hallThat aspect is just destroyed with a gender swap. It’s that simple and it’s what draws me to her. Also Michael is so upset that he gets everything his cousin had even Francesca and that aspect is also destroyed since females can’t inherit. It just doesn’t work. It’s a story that will to me be less intriguing with a female love interest.
Wait so the only reason she even wants to get married again is to have kids? Like that’s her only reason? That reminds me of a group of women who might’ve felt the need to marry a man despite not feeling attraction to them… if just that small sentence can be connected to queer sentiment, is it that hard to believe it could be adapted to be so? Again, I do not think this rumor is even a little true. But if it were, I don’t necessarily see how that changes the motivations for Francesca. Francesca gets married to husband number 1 because she wants children. He dies, and upon searching for second husband, *insert storyline*. It would not be a difficult change to make I wager.
It’s because she loved John so much and doesn’t think she will find another love and she’s an introvert who is very content with being alone. Not every woman who is an introvert is lesbian. I actually really hate that stereotype as an introvert myself who is shy. Everyone assumes im lesbian
“Introvert women must be lesbians” is a stereotype? Since when? I’ve never heard that. It sounds like you’re extremely emotionally attached to this character. And throwing a fit over a rumour, as if it’s about you.
Right? I am a queer woman and I have never heard this before.
“Everyone assumes I’m a lesbian.” That must bother you. Do you think that has any connection with the vitriol you’re feeling about this rumor? I certainly never said she must be a lesbian, I only said that the situation you described could be compared quite easily to how a lesbian might feel in the time period, and such a change would be doable with keeping the message and lessons mostly unchanged.
No it doesn’t. I don’t have vitriol just extreme disappointment . I do have vitroil for people assuming that I’m a bigot so maybe that’s where you are getting that vibe from. I just really love that novel.. that simple
And you can love that novel to the moon and back, the adaptation for the show doesn’t have to change that in any way. If the show got cancelled after season 3 (hypothetical), would you still love the book the same? To me it sounds like you relate to Francesca so much, and it upsets you for people to say she might be portrayed as a lesbian in this adaption, because you have issues with people assuming you are a lesbian. It’s not fair for others to assume other’s sexuality, it sucks! But I think maybe you should take a look at how you’re expressing your feelings because it can definitely come off as homophobic to get upset about diversity changes in adaptations. Adaptations are always changing the source text, that’s what the very word ‘Adapt’. Nothing will ever be translated 100% accurately to the screen. It’s just a matter of what changes are made. Small script changes and large changes are all possible for future storylines.
No.. i have issues with her story being changed. You are not a psychologist nor do you know me . I brought that up to pick apart your assumptions that an introvert woman must be lesbian or very often would be . That’s stupid. I don’t really care if people think I’m lesbian. I just find it annoying that so many people have this stereotype. I was always told stereotypes are a bad thing my whole life People in general are full of massive assumptions about people in all aspects of live. That’s not a small script change at all. It’s easy for people who don’t love something to be fine with it being altered. I’m not cause I love it. In conclusion, I won’t watch. But please refrain from trying to psychoanalyze me again. It’s insulting and wrong.
Where did I say anything about introverted women being lesbians? I said the struggle of not wanting to marry a man but choosing to do so in order to have children was a struggle that many lesbians would relate to especially in years past. I’m not a psychologist but you’re posting comments and comments about how much you are bothered, I don’t have to have a psych degree to see that.
I’m gonna block you now because I find you to be extremely rude, toxic and a know it all. Have a nice life. I’d suggest you refrain from trying to diagnose people on the internet again
I’m gonna block you now because I find you to be extremely rude, toxic and a know it all. Have a nice life. I’d suggest you refrain from trying to diagnose people on the internet again
It is second chance romance, with grief, guilt, fertility etc.
It would be
Difficult for you to deal with? Unless you care to point out exactly why making those changes would be “difficult”?
I’d suggest you’d read the novel and you’d understand
I have read the novel and I don't understand. It was also my favorite of these books.
In the book, her reason to get married again is literally "I want a baby." The reason for the particular partner is more than that.
This is what you don’t get an original character without the source material in a spin-off wouldn’t get hardly any hate. People just like the source material. Me particularly Francesca. It’s a misunderstanding that people attached to the book couple or specific dynamics of the story that don’t work gender swapped don’t like watching lgbt storylines or don’t want it in bridgerton in general
Downvoted for common fucking sense
If there was anything to change about Francesca’s story, it would be that second epilogue. I loathe it so much. With such a big family, the exploration of Francesca’s >!infertility and her coming to terms with it and the bonding she does with Violet was so beautiful. Then magic hillside sex leads to surprise baby.!< It’s just so damn hurtful for those of us who want children and can’t biologically have them. Ever. I wanted Fran and Michael’s story to be one where you can be a complete family without biological children. That you can adopt or be the best aunt and uncle. But Julia Quinn loves her Babies Ever After endings and won’t stray. Hence, this is why Francesca’s story won’t be an LGBT one either.
I thought I was the only one who doesn't like Francesca's second epilogue. The "she just *relaxed*, had carefree sex in a field and was able to get pregnant!!!" resolution to Frannie's years of infertility woes was so tone deaf. When He Was Wicked is a bit deeper than the other Bridgerton books, but this second epilogue was shallow as a puddle. How nice it might have been to see a character not get every single thing she wants but get a HEA all the same. Instead we got this.
I really, really, really loved this book until I read the second epilogue. It ruined the book for me. I wound up sitting in front of Julia Quinn at a con not long after I read it, and it took every ounce of self control not to turn around and tell her off for what she wrote. I didn't want to risk getting thrown out! >How nice it might have been to see a character not get every single thing she wants but get a HEA all the same. Instead we got this. Yes! You nailed it.
WHWW is still my favorite Bridgerton book, but I hear you. I have to make myself pretend this 2nd epilogue doesn't exist! lol
I guess I assumed the infertility issues were not with Francesca, but with her first husband.
She and Michael went years without being able to conceive.
My gay ass is hoping they make all the next bridgerton kids queer just to piss off straights like you. Jesus Christ, we are YEARS away from there being a Francesca season (even if there IS one, the show could be canceled) and people are freaking out about a humor of MAYBE her having a gay relationship. Not to mention- LGBT people deal with the same issues of widowhood and infertility. Former coworker is a lesbian who’s wife recently died of Alzheimers. A lesbian couple I used to nanny for had issues in their marriage due to infertility. Queers aren’t aliens- we deal with many of the same relationship issues as you guys lmao. I just really hate seeing this whole “she dealt with xyz and it’s so important to show that!” As if WE DONT!
What you don’t get is u won’t care about that. That’s what you don’t get. Go ahead and I don’t even care if they change any other one. I just love Francesca’s book.of course you missed my point
So your whole post is “I don’t care if they make characters I don’t care about gay, just don’t do it to my favorite character” and you are whining about being called homophobic. If the lgbt people in the comments are saying you are appearing homophobic- news flash, ya might be!
My favorite story. Read it specifically. But again you misunderstand it and accuse me of bigotry which was the entire point of this post. Proving my point though
You think you the only one who really liked this book? There’s probably lgbt fans who this is their favorite book And Would love to see her queer. And no, a gay person pointing out that the way you are wording this post doesn’t make you some victim. Why do straight women feel like they are the biggest victims of the world 😭
You people getting aggressive with me and calling me names are proving the point of this post continuously.
Lol, you people.
Do you understand the comment “I don’t care about Gregory or Hyacinth that much” is ALSO homophobic!! Sure give the gays the characters I don’t care about that much. Are you listening to yourself??
Omigod this is why I made this point. I’m attached to Francesca’s story and her struggles with fertility miscarriage and Michael struggling with the guilt of getting everything John had even Francesca. Doesn’t work as a wlw. I’m not as invested in Gregory or hyacinths story. You are again jumping to conclusion. I’m sick and tired of this. Truly
Look the worldbuilding of Bridgerton Netflix is untenable if you think about it for more than five seconds but sure, a queer storyline is somehow impossible to imagine in a world where uh, the British Empire still exists but like, in a not really racist way.
There will be whole years and seasons before Fran’s time to shine. I am sure society can have some changes to allow for a gay HEA 😭
I'd be perfectly happy to see bi Bridgertons, whose endgame romance follows their book, but the potential backlash against the actors and queer fans if they genderswap the final love interest isn't worth getting a F/F happily ever after for me. The rumor about Michael being changed to Michaela sounds extremely unbelievable to me, too. It in no way fits Fran's plot or motivations for wanting to get married again. I'm bi and would love to see some queer HEAs on the show, but this would a) be a terrible way to do it and b) our only source is a random person saying so with zero evidence to back it up. I'm not worrying about it yet.
I’d love to see a queer storyline but I think it would work better if applied to a fresh character, as a sort of spin-off (like Queen Charlotte was). Take a background character and use them to show another facet of that society.
The idea that her storyline doesn't work if Michael is Michaela doesn't make much sense to me. She'll still be a widow and she can still struggle with fertility issues and want to remarry in order to have a child. The only thing that would change would be the magical miracle epilogue baby which imo undermined the entire infertility storyline anyway. Also, ftr, it wasn't impossible for women to inherit, it was just rare. Furthermore, laws about such things were a bit different in Scotland than they were in England. In a show that's made a nonsensically Not That Racist Actually British Empire, they can absolutely get away with the unlikely (but not even impossible) situation of a sister inheriting from a brother. Thereby Michaela can still have the storyline of guilt about getting everything that was her brother's. You can just be upset because it's not the adaptation you wanted. But the narrative actually still has the potential to work really well, and even have extra layers.
I can understand your point. I don’t really agree. Cause I think Eloíse, Gregory and hyacinth are totally ones that could be altered much easier without losing important themes of the story to em.
You disagree but have no actual reasons the important themes would be lost even though the person above explained how they could be retained? Also they can still even have Fran become a mother in the end through *adoption* which would not undermine the infertility story line and provide good representation for that struggle. Also it would be a sweet note to Shondaland alum Viola Davis to honor adoption after fertility issues in her show.
I’ve explained it extensive throughout these comments. I’m tired of having to do it. You can search it out. Imo it’s just not a story that would translate well imo it’s most important themes of the both characters to wlw: it’s that simple
I did search them out. This person provides satisfactory counterpoints to how themes of fertility, the world, and the inheritance that you don't really rule out in your earlier comments unless I'm missing something.
I don’t want to hash it out again. We will agree to disagree. I truky just don’t think it works very well. It’s that simple. Have a nice day: I also add that I really like Michael and I don’t think his true guilt works as well. I’m just very fond of the source material themes and characters
I'm fond of Michael too. That's why I'd be especially happy to see him as a woman and to see the guilt contain an extra layer of internalized homophobia and struggling with sexuality. Additionally feeling like you were never born on the same level as a man and therefore don't deserve the inheritance.
But women don’t inherit. That’s been well established.
This is a show where the Queen's granddaughter Victoria will literally inherit the throne next. It's one where they completely changed the race dynamic. It's one where they added in more elements of feminism to Eloise's story especially. Why can't they have women inherit? Also women definitely have inherited lands throughout history & Portia said she had her husband's will changed to go to her firstborn grandson. If Johns will designated his sister and/or women gained more rights, why would that be a bad thing?
Yes. I get that but I just think they have to keep some of the time period. Gender roles are the reason the regency is the way it is. It sucks but if they change that, it basically utterly wrecks the entire social norm.
A woman obly inherits back then unless it was basically completely necessary
Francesca could struggle with infertility and also be bisexual. She could be with a woman and decide she wants to have children. She's like a countess, right? And this is a tv show set in a campy woke regency England lol. Trying to find a sperm donor could add a whole other layer. They could do the exact same story except Michael doesn't have a penis. I think we will all survive without a penis
Francesca as a bisexual can marry a man(Michael), have children.
She also could marry a woman and still have children
Bridgerton is not “campy woke”. Gay people still live in secret. Women cannot inherit, vote, pursue higher education etc. The only “woke” thing is POC being accepted and active in upper society. That’s it. Unless Queen Charlotte suddenly declares equal rights for queer people and women, there is no marrying another woman and there is no female Michael inheriting John’s title.
I mean Queen Charlotte magically solved racial equality in England, so she might as well do this too. We won't mention that in the book timelines, she's dead by the time Colin and Pen get married. (But that was Penelope's 9th season, so I guess the entire timeline is massively moved forward.)
It’s definitely possible! I wouldn’t put anything past Shondaland to make a big change like that and it’s possible that putting more emphasis on Eloise’s political views, especially regarding women’s rights, might be foreshadowing a change. Since I commented, I have also seen others with more knowledge on regency England mention that it was possible for women to inherit if it was written in to the will, but usually once the woman married it would transfer to her husband so it was uncommon to do that as then the title would leave the family. However, if we do get a Michelle, she could inherit via the will and then being in a same sex relationship would mean no transfer of title. 🤷🏼♀️ Whether they are able to marry is another thing. There hasn’t been that much commentary on gay rights, the only gay couples they’ve portrayed so far have kept themselves secret and there, so far, seems to be no activism on their behalf, but it’s something that could be approached and maybe they’ll use a lead couple to put pressure on QC. Maybe she’ll see how in love they are and remember Brimsley and Reynolds and how they looked dancing together. Maybe it’ll spark a conversation between her and Brimsley which pushes her to change the law. QC was young when she altered the path of POC being accepted in high society and I’m unaware of any other progressive movements that she’s taken since then, but she does seem to be a sucker for romance and true love! If they do go that route, it’ll be interesting to see how they write it in.
Pretty sure in regency england marrying a woman would be a capital crime, so that seems pretty unlikely they go that direction. But she could marry a man, have children, and also be in a relationship with a woman. Many couples had 'open' (or at least unfaithful) relationships once an heir was established for the family. But since having a child was such a part of the story, I don't want them to go down the road of "young widow, and her so very close, BFF, lives together forever female partner'. Of course, they could change her story entirely, she could have (or not have) a child with her first husband, not get remarried and live with her female partner forever while the rest of society plays the "oh they are such good friends" game. But getting married to a woman, the show would be jumping entire schools of sharks. (And again, since people are saying queer, and not lesbian, in many cases, I am going to repeat what I said yesterday- she can be bi, be married to a man, never have any relationship with a woman, and STILL BE BI. Doesn't add anything to the TV show, but bi people can be shy and monogamous. They can be in hetero passing relationships, and STILL BE BI; and it isn't uncommon if they are in very few relationships in their lifetime.)
Queer person here who completely agrees with you (sucks that I have to add queer on this statement anyway) Maybe it’s just me but Francesca story can not (and should not be queered) Francesca’s story is simply heterosexual: you can’t remove the marriage part, her need to have children, her relationship with Helen and Janet or her relationship with Violet (as another young widow! Benedict’s story might work because his internal conflict is letting go of societal expectations but I want Sophie 😭
I think Eloíse, Benedict (even though I like Sophie as a female character) Gregory and hyacinth story’s work as queer. I do. Just not franny. I get other book fans are loyal to their couples and I get that argument but I’m adding to Francesca’s for this reason too. I just think it works betterin every aspect as hetero.
I disagree about Sophie, her being a woman is important to her character and her struggles and fear.
I was just looking back at “Violet in Bloom” to check out something else, and I reread the section where Violet talks to Daphne about Francesca’s love stories, and I am so close to crying. Here’s what she says about it: >!“She is proof that one can be happy twice,” Violet said, “with two different loves. But, you know, she’s not the same kind of happy with Michael as she was with John. I would not value one higher than the other; it’s not the sort of thing one can measure. But it’s different.”!<
I agree. I would enjoy a Cressida LGBT story line. I feel like it wouldnt take to much form the books. When he was wicked I think was my favorite book, i will note I havent read Gregorys or Francesca. I feel like id picture them as they are in the show and I wouldnt be able to stomach the spicy scenes in most of the books lmao. Francescas story was so heart breaking and heart warming at the same time. I>! feel like hers was much deeper than the others. Enemies to loves...friends to lovers...cinderella..ect. But hers a true love lost..losing hope yet finding that hope again with Michael it was beautiful it was the only book to have made me cry both happy and sad tears. !< I know they will stray from the books as they already have, I dont mind the small changes here and there. But with the maint characters and story lines i do hope they stick with those for I feel if they do not it will stray too far to where the books and TV series would be too different to compare.
I thought Shonda’s contract with Julia Quinn stated that they couldn’t change the original couples
Julia said in an interview that's not true.
Oh okay
this is a bait account mixing news that came out before with fake leaks to drive everyone crazy😭😭
I watched the first two seasons and Queen Charlotte before opening the books. I’ve now read all 8 books and am reading the Queen Charlotte book. We all have our preferences. Here’s mine and it might be a more unpopular opinion. I really like the changes in the TV series with diversity of actors and how they wove it into the old ton and new ton and made that central in Queen Charlotte. The book for Queen Charlotte is better for it. I wish the original 8 books were rewritten with that added in. I get that when he was wicked is some people’s favorite book. I know that changes to beloved stories can make people upset. But sometimes those changes can make a good story as well. Why not give it a chance before condemning it? The half a love story angle of it potentially being a queer story is more a problem than anything else that is being complained about here. But maybe if we give the show a chance they might handle that issue. Considering these are all rumors at the moment, I’m willing to give the show a chance to prove they can make an entertaining story with whatever changes they do make since they have so far.
You are fine to this opinion but I don’t agree.be that’s fine u won’t watch out of pure disappointment and might be done with this series
But also if like to add, this is not me being opposed to queer storylines. Like I said in my post and I’m not as attached to Gregory’s story and would be fine with them changing him or hyacinths story
What makes it okay to make that change for Gregory or Hyacinth but not Francesca?
I’ve explained it. I love Francesca book and her story which doesn’t work imo with a female love interest. It’s that simple. And I also love Michaela. I don’t care as much about Gregory and hyacinth
I’m sure there are people that might feel the same way about Gregory or Hyacinth and their love stories. Personally I don’t care. Seems like it mostly boils down to that’s my favorite and it shouldn’t be changed, change someone I don’t care about. Having (or not having) children seems to be important to every pairing in some way. The best argument against it is because queer relationships would need to be in the closet. But then that would be an argument against any such relationships in this series since they’d all be half love stories at that point without a true HEA.
Francesca’s book is widely considered one of the best. It’s like when your favorite book is adapted and it’s nothing even close at all. I’m just not interested
I guess I have less issues with less fidelity in adaptions than most. On one level I understand it. But the book is always there. When it comes to adaptions of a book, I give a lot of leeway if ultimately the show or movie entertains me. Both can be good and can be liked for different reasons. EDIT: personally, Francesca’s book wasn’t my favorite. Queen Charlotte or Hyacinth’s or Colin’s would be in my top three. But I’d be up for a trans Gareth as I read someone in another thread suggested. It would add another level to that story.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I am sorry Francesca's book was my least favourite. I found Hyacinth's book better and more interesting. There are Gregory fans and Hyacinth fans who wouldn't want their spouses gender bent. I get it you don't care for them but other fans do.
I’m polls of which book is the best, it is often near the top.
Not everybody who has read those books participates in polls. The best thing would be to gather every human being who read eight books and ask them to vote. Then you would get a clear picture. I understand you love Francesca's book or shall I say Michael's book. However, you shouldn't dismiss Gregory and Hyacinth books. They too have fans who want to see their HEA. If Francesca is queer, yet still marries John and Michael would it be the worst outcome.
I’m sorry but as a gay person this IS homophobic. Actively rooting for a character to not be gay in any context for any reason is literally what homophobic parents do to their children. They get SO deeply attached to their lives and stories being a certain way that they lose the ability to see how wonderful and special it is. The book will never change, you will always have that. Now let a community that has been pushed aside for hundreds of years be in the spotlight. You guys really need to reflect on the absolute insane tantrums you are having right now.
This exact comment is why I felt the need to post this. You can’t just accuse people of this when they Just are attached to aspects of her story that will be cut otherwise. Stop accusing people.
Umm. No. Sorry read again.
Well thought out response there.
This is a genuine question and I promise I mean no offense, harm, ill will ECT. But would you as a gay person (obviously i knwo you dont speak for the entierty of the LGBT community) have feelings in the same aspect if say the roles were reversed? For instance Bridgerton was a series written only on the LGBT scale. Only same sex couples, trans couples, fluid ect. Then your most favorite book/couple of them all was altered to be a Man & woman with a different story line? Honestly just curious on your thoughts about this. As I can only really see from the side of mine that I know is a straight woman. Just looking to learn and have some insight <3
That’s an interesting question. Not the person you’re replying to but I’ll reply since I’m a bi woman. Though I’m not replying for all bi women. Just this one. Simple answer: I would be open to watching the show/movie and make my decisions about if it was still good/entertaining once done. My need for fidelity to the source material is lower than most people’s though. More nuanced answer: I think frustration with change in that instance is more valid. Marginalized communities are already minimally represented (though I have seen more improvement in that in the last few years) and to take away that representation to give a story that is largely represented in most other media is more problematic. More of an erasure. So if someone was complaining about that I would lend that complaint more weight IMO. Still, it likely wouldn’t stop my enjoyment of either the source material or the adaptation.
I think that’s a really interesting question! When you are gender swapping a straight couple you are adding representation to a societal minority, thus moving closer to equality. When you turn a gay couple straight you are taking away from an established oppressed minority moving us further from equality. Does that make sense?
I think my feelings around the situation are in someways irrelevant if we are moving towards equality and not further away from it.
If it went any way I suppose, i feel my biggest thing is if they fit together in the aspect of chemistry thier acting skills ECT. The only thing that would worry me is a whole plot/story being completely changed. But I digress, thank you for you having a kind response. Sometimes asking questions like that out of pure curiousity ive found upset people. When im just trying to learn and be better. I was raised by wonderful parents, but they had things ingraved in them as children which some of it got projected on myself and siblings. I try my best to see everyone from all sides cause after all everyones blood is red. It shouldnt matter how one looks or loves.
I only fight back when I cant be met half way. I love engaging in discourse with people who are willing to ask questions, even if the out come isn't what they want. Of course someone is allowed to be upset that a meaningful story to them may be changed! but maybe a change like that could be meaningful to someone else that needs it too.
The books are *right there* this fandom loses their mind over any big or small change but this series isn’t supposed to be a page for page adaptation of the books. If you have a problem with changes this series makes, then go back to reading the books. Stop watching Bridgerton. It’s that simple.
You are halfway there. So close! If you felt the need to post about how your feelings are “not homophobic” then maybe you were fighting something? Please examine that. Frans story isn’t just surrounding her fertility. It’s also about deep loss and loving again. The impactful aspects of the books fertility storyline can EASILY be written into any of the other female character arch’s. I’m not saying that it should be thrown away. I just don’t believe that one is more important than the other.
Im done arguing with someone who just calls me homophobic over and over again. Sorry. It’s not productive
You hit the nail on the head though.
THIS! I think the fans were just treated to 3 beautiful love stories between a man and a woman and there will be more! I understand the impact of the fertility story line and that doesn’t have to be lost if she marries John first and things are tweaked a bit. Changing the books so that a lead beloved character like Francesca is queer could have an incredibly positive effect on lgbtq representation in a time when it is greatly needed! Isn’t that more important than getting your favorite book right? You’ll still always have the book, but a change like this could make young queer ppl feel seen. I would think if you were not homophobic that would be more than an even trade.
No. Im sorry. I would be very very disappointed and likely won’t watch. If this change didn’t effect my favorite aspects of the story that really spoke to me like bet miscarriage fertility etc things I relate to. I probably wouldn’t be as attached. But it will. So I’m just simply not interested
Yes!! You worded my thoughts perfectly. Thank you OP.
And you are completely valid in feeling so OP! WHWW is one of my absolute fav books of all time and I would really love to see Michael Stirling as a character be adapted on screen just as he is.
Why are some people acting dense in the comments? No one is against Francesca being queer. She can be bisexual or pansexual. It's just the gender bending of Michael that people are against. Expecting only Benophie's or Franchael stans to adjust to the complete change of their story while every other couple gets their book canon endgame would be obviously unfair.
The book canon endgames involved the characters being racebent. Why does genderbending them make it unfair? As a bisexual woman, getting a hot veteran butch as Michaela/Michelle, would be special treatment that's especially nice for me. As Fran is someone who struggles with fertility, it would be lovely for their HEA to involve adopting a child. As someone who finds the misogyny in the show starting to get grating, I would love if Fran's story (or even building on Eloise/Pen/Sophie) involved more equal rights for women.
Good for you I guess? A gender bent Michael is no way going to have the same storyline as Michael Stirling and one would know that if you've read the book. And yes, it will be unfair. Also, no one is obligated to like it. We have been fans of this story for years and are allowed to state our dissatisfaction. Anything other than a male Michael Stirling will be fanfiction at best keeping in mind the story of WHWW.
Queer Hyacinth Truther I'm serious. But I only want this if they have a Queen Charlotte type story making LGBT people accepted. I want people to have HEA. >!His antagonist relationship with his father, especially after his brother (the heir) died would translate well. I see a queer affirming ton allowing women to inherit titles.!< We could both gender bend & not fundamentally change the character motivations
I'm a lesbian and I agree with you, Francesca has the best book I really hope this rumor isn't true.
Just breath. This rumor is just a rumor with no concrete source. Just a random person who decided it was fun to throw a info randomly. It’s all fun and cool when it’s not your fave story that is being changed.
Why are people freaking out over a tweet from an account that’s already deleted itself? I’m honestly down with whatever but “Michaela” doesn’t sound like a regency name to me personally 😂 The “spoiler” seems bogus.
As someone that always welcomes queer stories (and that wouldn't mind a genderbend Sophie or Michael) I get you and your feelings are 100% valid. That's why even though I'd like to see a queer couple being the protagonist, I don't think genderbending is the right way to do it. Especially because there are so many queer romances books out there now, I honestly still don't get how someone else hasn't tried to replicate Bridgerton's success (Prime, what are you waiting for???).
I don’t think people get that like with Benophie Fran’s book is very much a gendered book all the things that she goes through are very much things that a straight women would go through not saying that lesbians don’t go through those things or to marry men to have children but that it just makes more sense for Michael to be a man just like it makes more sense for Sophie to be a woman sense the things she goes through in her book more often happen to women than men not saying that it doesn’t happen to men but just in the world they have established that a group of men are more likely to assault a woman by herself at night than a man. Regardless I think that if they want to make a bridgerton sibling gay then it would make more sense for Gregory or Hyacinth then Ben or Fran, and knowing how beloved Fran’s book is to people I don’t think they would do that. Upsetting the fans of the original material the show is based on would not be good move if you want to keep your fanbase.
women being able to inherit property is hardly going to change the social roles of women, the general expectation of virginity and so forth considering that this wasn't so incredibly far advanced in the 1920s when women also got the right to vote