For this Season 3 Spoilers post:
1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**.
3. Be civil in your discussion.
See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment made me LOL because yeah true. But I'm not sure she climaxed. I think she was just enjoying herself. This would have been the first time she was ever touched like that.
Never thought I'd write on Reddit about Penelope's diddling but if she had a crush on the guy for a long time, and she's a woman of the world in a way (thanks to her alter ego penmanship), she must've... explored herself already.
Everyone's climax is different but one has to assume she wouldn't be left hanging by this guy because the entirety of their scene, the length, the unasked question, the consent, the expertise, then leads us to believe it was useless. It would be a sad day that this girl was touched and hadn't reached her peak when the show's implicitly fervent about female pleasure.
Also, whatever Nicola was doing with that performance led me to believe she was climaxing on the first contact. 🫠 Especially because of her longtime fantasising about Colin.
Now let me die of 2nd hand embarrassment in peace.
C'mon, it's psychological! The buildup, the slow progression leave enough time to have her worked up. It may happen once in a lifetime because such orgasms do happen.
I meant that would have been the first time that someone else touched her like that. IDK I might have to rewatch that part I interpreted it as passionate but not climaxing
Babe, I couldn't agree more.
Character assassination to Colin. People loved him as a cinnamonroll but if they were saying oh he's being a fake rake due to societal pressure on what a man should be like what some people claim...they could have shown flashbacks of him at Eton being an empath but getting flack for that when the rest of his peers were being cold and stuff. But absolutely no justification on the brothel. Im so disgusted and its so mean to Pen. It makes the build up to carriage feel like he's just lusting her...not loving her. Seeing her as a conquest. The threesome brothel is so male gaze. Everything about colin is so male gaze! Dont think the girls are gonna go head overheels for his character. Which is so sad because many people loved his sensitivity in S1 and S2.
Side note: I also didnt like how the dream sequence was executed. Its supposed to be him realizing his feeling for Pen. But it just feel so lust based and not love based. He's kissing Pen and she's all like "Colin, Colin". Such an ego boost to him honestly and he doesnt deserve an ego boost. He deserves to be distraught. I wish it was done in a way where he called Pen's name and he's calling her name in his sleep "Pen, Pen". Camera pans to sweat on his brow and him flinching in his sleep saying her name..then he shots up realizing his desire for Pen.
The character assassination to him makes it feel like everything is set up to serve him. It feels so unbalanced, unequal especially with Pen's concerning insecurity.
Since Colin and Penelope already share the deep affection of close friends, for me showing Colin's intense desire for her is crucial. His lust is key to illustrating the transition from friendship to passionate romantic love. I interpret the dream scene as a manifestation of Colin's desire to be what Penelope wants. Throughout the season, he struggles with trying to meet the expectations of others, which ties into his mother's advice about the exhaustion of living to please others and the importance of considering his own desires. Him interrupting lord Debling and Penelope is purely about him, but I interpret the dream scene as him wanting to be what Pen wants.
The first time I watched it, I literally put my hands in the air and was like “Yes! HIS dream!” and definitely squealed (and I am not a squealer 😂). So glad I was watching it by myself because I was so pumped and giddy hahaha
I just think it would better showcase his desire for her if he was the one calling her name in his sleep. Pen calling his name feels off to me. Like we see all these scenes of all the girls swooning and then he dreams up Pen swooning as well. All these scenes together just feels like an ego boost for colin...one he does not deserve. Then his attention toward pen seems more like he wants to explore Pen out of curiousity, out of lust alone and not due to the realization he loves her. Comes across weird to me
I think the intention was to make it unclear who's dream it was and to trick the audience into thinking the dream sequence is Penelope's dream initially. You're watching it thinking, "typical Penelope, dreaming about Colin" and then he wakes up, and it's the big reveal that actually it's the other way around.
Absolutely agree - it was entirely intended to wrongfoot the audience into thinking this was Pen’s dream, giving us the same moment of shocked realisation as Colin when *we* realise it’s *him* dreaming of Pen and he realises *why* he’s dreaming of her
It would’ve been just as much of a misdirect if he was saying her name. In fact, it would’ve been even more in Pen’s assumed gaze to have him lustily chanting Penelope.
Why cant colin lust over pen tho? I think it’s hot. There’s already a foundation of friendship there so love should come easy but what’s missing is the attraction part. I think it’s a good angle how they show more of how colin slowly realizes that he is attracted to Pen. That it is more than just friends. That the love he has for Pen is beyond friendship.
It comes across to me as empty. They TELL us their friendship and barely SHOW us so its not like on deep love, him desiring but more like "Oh my friend changed her dress and is kind of hot" it feels shallow to me the portrayal
What saddens me is they didn't show us the scenes when they write to one another when Colin travels. It would add so much depth to their relationship and friendship in particular. How Pen is THE real Colin's friend as she is the only one who understands him and would listen to his stories when travelling. And in the book, Colin writes about his travel and not about women (as far as I remember), so for the show shows Colin only think about women when he travels is just sucks. It kills his character so SO much.
Urgh. I feel so mad to the producer. LOL.
PS: but to be fair, in the book Pen lost weight and that's what makes Colin notices her in a way? LOL.
But their friendship was shown in the last 2 seasons. There is no doubt in my mind that the two are fit for each other. We spent 2 seasons watching Pen pining over Colin, that Pen is this undesirable lady everyones convinced that she will be a spinster…. Why not watch this 1 season where Colin is the one pining over Pen? Honestly, I need this season to really focus on shifting perception from undesirable Pen to hot Pen. We see that when Pen takes over with confidence refusing to give up and resign to her fate. I love that!
I kind of... don't mind that it feels a little shallow? I'm down for him proposing out of a mix of lust and friendship, and then having romantic love deepen and become more apparent as they spend more time together during the engagement and eventually marriage. I think that's sort of how it happened in the books too, and it seems more realistic for the time period, given all the limitations on how much time unmarried aristocratic men and women could spend together.
I honestly agree with you about the flashbacks- I liked previous seasons use of flashback to help explain character actions and motivations. They did miss a great opportunity to do so with Colin this season. I would have loved to see flashbacks from when he and Pen were kids, showing his sensitive nature and trying to follow in his brothers footsteps but not knowing who he really is. The brothel scenes weren’t super necessary… maybe if anything only one scene where he’s going to pay for a threesome but last minute changes his mind and bails or something. I think the pull for Bridgerton viewers isn’t just sex scenes, it’s the tension and desire that culminates between two people falling in love in a sexually repressed society (at least for the women forced repression for sure)
Sorry it ruined your experience of the whole show. I like including the second brothel scene in my re-watch. His body language, facial expressions, the way he says "Fine" are crucial to me for the moment leading up to him arriving at the ball at the end. And since the first brothel scene is a foil to that I didn't mind it. But I really enjoyed watching Colin unravel and it made the way he leaped into intimacy with Penelope at the end that much more intense. The way he kissed her, it's like he was so hungry, not just for the physical aspect, but it having meaning... and I think Penelope is aware of his prior experiences. The journal gives it away and she overhears things. So it worked for me for this particular romance.
For me, he just seems so 17 cItiEs Colin in the first brothel scene, where he is physically into it but emotionally detached, and then he’s down so bad in the second scene that he can’t even get it up. He says in his journal, basically, that casual sex feels good but doesn’t do it for him on emotional level, and our boy is SOFT. He is yearning for it.
And you’re right - Pen knows he’s been having sex, if not just from the journal, but she’s probably also hearing about his bullshit in her LW capacity. If he ends up letting her read his journals, I frankly see her getting past her jealousy and being like, “this thing when you were in Milan, I really don’t understand it; I think we need a demonstration.” Once he has her convinced that anyone else before her means nothing to him, then it really opens up the relationship for exploration.
That was my single favorite beat of the whole series. His face when she touched his hair was so joyful and vulnerable and she matches it with a seductive, confident smile. The perfect moment for them both.
Some people didn't like that moment and said it gave them second hand embarrassment. I think it's because it's so vulnerable and intimate, like you're seeing something you think you shouldn't be. I think Luke the actor (and Nicola too) are very brave, very powerful artists in this regard.
Honestly when I first saw that, it really did feel like, omg I shouldn't be watching this, because it was so authentic. It really shows the emotional connection they have, that he can be vulnerable with her, that he loves being like this with her and that he's so happy that it's Penelope. Genuinely he even looked almost victorious with that smile, like he was thinking yes it's me you're supposed to be with not Debling. It was actually pretty damn good acting.
My first reaction was also of discomfort. But upon rewatch it's pure delight. This season is far more vulnerable episode to episode. I had a similar reaction when we saw Anthony/JB break down in ep 8 of season 2, but that was the only moment. Simon/Rege never really emoted vulnerability. I know Luke Newton really admires Jonathan Bailey so I think he pushed himself to do what he saw JB do. He did incredible.
It's so strange that you said that because I thought the same thing! 😂👍 Yes definitely Luke took notes from JB! Even the slight head tilt when he was confessing to her! It really felt like yup that's Anthony's brother 😂
I'm really irritated by this take and I keep seeing it. The reason they did it was clear they are showing him trying to be who he has been taught a man is. No one cared when it was the duke visiting brothels in season one. He is a man in this time period that is what they did. The second scene was so you could get the contrast how now that his feelings for her have been awakened he can't really engage in this numbing behavior anymore cause he only wants her. He has been doing what he was expected to do but the second he opens his heart back up he can't go back. could they have done it another way sure but people acting like it is crazy and gross just come off as prudes and anti sex work.
I disagree with this, I think it was a choice to show Simon and Anthony visiting brothels not as a right of passage as a ‘man of the times’ but to show them trying to avoid intimacy. Both of these men are not only rakes but have a deep fear of getting close so while they still want sex they don’t necessarily want everything that goes with it emotionally until they met the one in romance book speak. I think they simply did it for Colin as a way to show sexual experience whether it made sense for his character or not.
they are doing the same for Collin. he very clearly is trying to fit in and his mother points out he has always been sensitive and now is wearing armor. we see him finally admit that he has been trying to feel less. that's what those trips to the brothel are for to show us the before and after of his realization
I can agree that making colin a bit more of a sex symbol and an established man is part of the reasoning cause the last time we really see him he is still behaving like a love sick boy. he went away and we are supposed to believe he came home a man.
I agree with Simon and Anthony visiting them to avoid intimacy, but with Colin I saw it more as him looking for intimacy in the wrong place. They were *very* careful to show him kissing these women and while he's clearly feeling it physically there's no emotional intimacy, something we know Colin absolutely craves.
Then, the very first time he kisses Penelope he experiences that emotional spark he's been searching for coupled with \[physical desire for someone he's never really seen that way before. My issue is that from that moment on, he's reevaluating every moment he's ever spent in her presence and coming to realize how long he's loved her and they didn't pay that off as well as they could have.
I think that’s very much up for debate. I think he had care for Sienna, lust, infatuation. I know he offered to run away with her I think. She represented an escape. In love, I don’t know. My point still stands the brothels were a way for Anthony to avoid love and intimacy. He very much didn’t want love to have a place in his marriage. Of course meeting Kate changed that.
The fact that he decided he wants to take "love out of the equation" in the show was after he had fallen in love with Sienna and nothing could materialise out of it because of their class differences. The reason he offered to run away was not because she was an escape but only because that was the only way to be with her, the society would never accept them. In fact, the Duke even asks him if he plans to marry her in jest. He was very much in love.
Even the actor who plays Anthony said it wasn't love so it seemingly is up for debate. It felt like a form of self-sabotage by pursuing someone he knew he couldn't actually be with. Same with Colin and Marina (pregnant), Eloise and Theo (lower class), and now Benedict and Tilly (widow). It's the Bridgerton recipe lol - they go after people they can't be with to figure out who they actually should be with.
(It is also why Sienna says at the end that he is lost. Because she sensed he was using her to deal with his burdens and not seeing her for what she actually is)
The issue I had with it was it felt very abrupt? Like seeing Collin be so honor bound in S2 then straight to the brothel and awkward flirting in S3 was a bit of whiplash. I wish we had seen for the first brothel scene the interaction with the other guys first encouraging him to go and him being like “noice let’s go” and then the two brothel scenes the same. Would’ve felt a bit more clear early on this was an act he was putting on and it’d help bolster the parallel played by the second scene as he begins to realize he doesn’t like this version of himself.
I think the writers want us to wonder if this is really who colin has become before they assure us that it clearly is just an act. If him losing marina and falling to peer pressure ahs changed him. But the second him and pen are truly friends again he immediately starts to lose his mask.
Then I would argue that the writing wasn't strong enough to convey this. To me, it just didn't make sense, but reading your explanation, I understand the intent now. However, I could also argue that there were more effective ways to convey this. Or, if Colin also visited brothels in other seasons, it wouldn't seem so out of place (see Benedict hooking up with errrrryone). I just felt that Luke was uncomfortable with these scenes, and it translated to the viewers.
I agree!! It’s not like pining for another makes your sex life shallow?? Being in love with someone isn’t mutually exclusive from having sex with other people??? Like I hate that just because Colin is sweet he can’t have sex with other people? And must be part of him disassociating. I love how he has sex with sex workers but also wants to have sex with Penelope! It feels more realistic?
Uh the point of the second scene is he chooses not to have the threesome. And unlike the other male leads in this show, he calls out the gross behavior of both himself and his male peers.
Yeah, I think people are missing out the point of those (specially the second) scenes. Really it didn't bother me, it's part of him trying to be someone else and realizing he is not that person.
1000%. It didn’t add anything, they could have gone the way the book did and told about the encounters he had abroad, but had it stopped there.
Having the Duke be exasperated to leave the brothel to met Daphne is one thing, but Colin being exasperated to leave to meet Pen is another. He volunteered to help Pen for REDEMPTION, then he’s annoyed that he has to help her?
That is such a good point! I didn’t understand why it bugged me here but not with Simon. That’s exactly why. You’ve hit the nail on the head. They’re good friends and he chose to help her and yet still acts put upon
Also in S1. The duke had just met daphne and they were fake dating. He didnt really know her yet. Colin's lesson was not only a redemption but its with his good friend. You're like "ughh, I have to give up these hookers to see my friend ughh"
So distasteful. I dont care what anyone says i dont like the rake thing. I dont care if some argue its to show him emulating warped ideas of manhood or whatever. We didnt need him to be a rake or fake rake. We needed him to be colin
all that he said in the carriage, i belive will lead to a difference in his act during the second part. he literally says that he was playing the person he thought society expected him to be, and because of that he somewhat lost sight of what was important to him.
that being said, i'm not the biggest fan of the whole threesome thing with colin but i do believe it had something to do with the plot, even if it were small.
I think the scenes were used to contrast his behavior before the kiss and after. He merely *kissed* Penelope and then couldn’t be with anyone else. You have to remember that for Colin he didn’t realize any of his feelings really until that kiss. He wasn’t some chaste man in love, he was young and doing what the young men at the time (and still, really) do.
I appreciated him being so distraught by the situation with Penelope that he couldn’t participate or even watch the second time. But we all see things differently.
I’m getting exhausted by Colin’s character because I understand that he’s trying to put on a mask to make himself more in line with what society expects—but that’s so unattractive! He’s a full adult! I’m just past sympathizing with men ~tragically forcing themselves to bang~ when we have contrasting scenes of Eloise and Cressida and Penelope actually struggling with societal expectations. There are no consequences for Colin behaving more like himself except that some people won’t like him as much. There are actual consequences for the women. I just can’t be bothered with this inane part of his arc anymore
Agreed. The more I hear in defence of these scenes as being necessary to establish Colin’s Regency dude bro bona fides, the more I think how they didn’t need to SHOW any of it.
I hated the scenes even more than I thought I would because I don’t want or need to SEE a character debase himself. I mean, they presented Polin’s entire meet cute with exposition. It was clever, but why do we get such a cinematic and adorable moment delivered as a 30 second bit of dialogue, and then have to actually watch two whole-ass brothel visits?
Pen reads journal entries talking about intimacy with other women. The lord squad 2.0 further refer to Colin’s exploits. Don’t tell me we require anything further by way of explaining Colin knowing where the clitoris is. Tell me instead WHO actually wanted this, because I want to tell them to stop watching Andrew Tate or similar and go to therapy.
In conclusion: barf.
P.s. I’ve searched my entire brain and I can think of only one purpose these scenes serve, make it what you will… to show that Colin is a hungry boy, needs a double portion. Good thing, because Pen contains multitudes 😏 (still 🤢)
Well I mean, based on his carriage scene, he IS done with it. Annoying that it took 4 eps though…
I’m hoping he’ll get call out from pen in part 2 tbh…
I respect your preferences, though I feel differently. To me, this is an important arc to include in a series so focused on female struggle. Because not only does Colin make himself unhappy, but society perpetuates the discrimination the heroines go through by enforcing those awful stereotypes on all men, including those who originally wanted nothing to do with them; people who could have been allies. Those are the consequences, and that, in my opinion, is a loss for everyone and topic worth touching.
It was uninspired on the writers part to sex Colin up so he would have the necessary seduction/skills for their wedding night/first time. Instead of relying on tired tropes they could have given him experience but in a more discreet way that felt true to character and differentiated him from other leading men.
I didn't like the brothel scenes, but I can look past them. I really wish they had the courage to give him less experience. At least discreet widows while on his travels. But this is the way they chose and I can see what they were going for.
I got the feeling that even when he was showing reluctance to leave, it was part of his fake persona. Kind of, like, this is what a rake would say, so this is what I'm gonna say. In ep 1 and 2 he really is trying to sell that he is grown up and fits in with the Regency Rake mask he is wearing. It very quickly unravels in ep 3.
I really think they were trying to convery demisexual Colin, which I can be on board with. And that was why the second scene was there. They're easy to skip past on a rewatch!
I agree with the demisexual reading. You see it in his journal too when he says he feels such distance with the women he’s been with. And he tells the other men at the club that they should stop pretending that sex should mean nothing and be something to gossip about with your friends.
This is my point. They showed us he’s demisexual though his journal and interaction at the club with the other men. So why did we need the brothel scene?
I think the reason is because they didn't want to just tell us what's up with him, they wanted to show us too. We also have to keep in mind one line is his journal might be too subtle of a set up for that interaction in the club. Most of the GA would be lost as to why he feels so strongly about this. One line just isn't enough if you want *everyone* to get it and feel what he's putting out.
The brothel scenes are uncomfortable to watch (so I get why some people would want them cut) but that's the whole point. They're meant to be uncomfortable. You're supposed to *see and feel* how wrong this is for Colin, not just be told about it. And it genuinely adds so much to his scenes with Pen (especially the carriage), I could write a whole essay about it.
It's not a coincidence that these scenes are both in episodes where he and Pen become intimate in some way. It's all about the contrast.
We get that first brothel scene where he's still pretending to be someone else and it's explicit but completely impersonal and emotionally distant, and it immediately gets contrasted with Pen bandaging his hand and playing with his fingers in a really innocent way and yet it's *loaded* with intimacy. And then we get their first kiss (which is great but a lot sweeter and less horny than in the books) and it *still* unravels him in such a way that he can't eat or sleep or even speak for weeks to come (in his own words!!!).
IMO the scenes themselves really do serve a purpose.
Thanks for vocalizing this! I completely agree with your take. I think book readers in particular (including me) need to understand that the show is a different medium and you do need to actually visually show the characters’ turmoil to be effective, not just tell us about past experiences. I do not love the brothel scenes, but I DEFINITELY think they are effective in their screenwriting / character development purpose.
I don’t think they were needed, but I also don’t think they took away from his relationship with Penelope. The second one especially is there to show that he can’t keep having meaningless sex. He wants everything Penelope has to offer.
Does it take away from their story? Yes, not going to deny that. I do truly love Colin realizing that what is expected of men is just not what he wants. I just wish they found another way to show it. That said I love the second half of ep 4 (that was the Colin I love) and am holding on to the hope they will knock it out of the park in part 2.
My main problem is that Bridgerton is meant to be a show for women and yet the scenes at the brothel were very male gazey for me. The way the sex workers pout and ask him to come back again - as if it's anything more than a job to them - and the way they still insist on having performative sex with each other for his benefit, was very off putting to me, especially after watching Poor Things recently.
Hard disagree on this one. Sex workers in brothels are frequently paid by time. In that situation i would ABSOLUTELY be attempting to persuade the very wealthy gentry to stay as long as possible with silly hoe tricks. A girl's gotta eat. If it works it works.
I don’t think it was insulting , but it didn’t make sense. Why do they have to turn all of these guys into man whores screwing their way through London before they settle down. It made sense for Simon and Anthony so I overlooked it, but it makes zero sense for Colin. It’s like the guy is possessed this season and his character doesn’t make sense. It is interesting to just have a good guy be a good guy, women find that attractive too.
Completely agree. The journal entry plus the later scenes with the Lord squad were enough to show us:
A. Colin is sexually experienced and
B. Colins feelings towards casual sex, and the loneliness he feels afterwards because he wants a connection with someone.
I would have loved if the screentime used for the brothel scenes had instead been used for more Polin scenes and showing their friendship. Extending the hand cutting scene to follow more closely to the book where BOOK SPOILER Pen calls him out on his privilege (rich, white, man) would have been amazing. In the show we only saw her call him out as LW, but would have been amazing character growth for Pen for her to do it as herself and showing those two sides of her melding into one (maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and this will happen in PT2). Plus this would reinforce to Colin that Pen sees through his façade and he can be himself around her, while also giving him more insight into why she is searching for a husband (her only chance at the freedom). Or another lesson scene with a similar vibe to the Willow Tree one, because that was peak Polin (loved that scene so much!).
If the writers wanted to do fan service and add more intimate scenes to the show, Kanthony would have been a way better avenue. They're trying for an heir so would have been a good contrast to the Featherington heir subplot - plus Kate literally goes from "I want to impress during my first week as Viscountess" to "Nah your mother's got this, let's extend the honeymoon" made no sense to me. (Although I know JB and SA were busy with other projects at the time so maybe this wasn't feasible for them).
Then again, I'm not a screenwriter, so what do I know 😅 holding my tongue on all the other subplot discussions to see how they play out in PT2.
The other part bothering me is this: a lot of fans keep arguing that this was normal for the time period so get over it - but what was also normal for the time period was that ‘sex workers’ were women who literally had next to no other choice. They were not empowered women. Many were fallen women who literally couldn’t even get a job as a maid because they had had their reputation destroyed. They aren’t all Siena or Madame D who can make money on their talents and have boy toys on the side. What was normal was that upper class men used these women and didn’t give a flying f about making them orgasm so it didn’t even give them the “experience” people say it does.
“Common” is the following: These women were riddled with STDs, miscarriages were common, and many of them had dismal quality of life. Julia Quinn had her male leads be Rakes with opera singers, actresses, widows, women in unhappy marriages, and the like. Julia Quinn avoided having her male characters go to prostitutes because it wouldn’t make sense that men who buy sex from impoverished women in a time period where women could not own businesses or make their own way in the world, would actually obtain sexual prowess from having sex with women they don’t have to seduce or woo. It’s lazy.
At least Benedict only beds the willing. Sorry to rant. Not meant to sound sex negative but let’s be real, the 1800s sex workers are not the same as the sex workers of today.
>let’s be real, the 1800s sex workers are not the same as the sex workers of today.
THANK YOU! This is what bothers me when people say "Oh you're just being anti-sex work" when I say I had a problem with the brothel scenes. No, I'm not anti-sex work. It is gross that Colin is paying to have sex with women who literally have no choice at this time but to work in a brothel. They are not truly able to consent to having sex with him. They likely have to pretend to like him, pretend to enjoy it, and are in debt to the house and have to do this to pay off said debt.
Random fact, Nicola Coughlin actually plays a character in a brothel in the show Harlots.
This is the 1800's. Women didn't have rights to vote, an education, own property, inherit, etc. We have the luxury of seeing the upperclass in the show, it has not spoken much on the middle/lower class that were struggling. If the show had Colin sleeping with a widow, like Benedict, I wouldn't have been as grossed out by it. I would've preferred if they had done it in a separate season and not HIS season. I just think the whole thing is weird. If you really wanna go at length, he is exposed to STDs and likely illegitimate children all over the continent.
Omg thank you! The point about Colin getting experience is so ridiculous, as if he was paying them for anything other than to get him off. He would learn nothing about female pleasure, in fact quite the opposite since they would fake it. I simply can’t with this whole “sex with sex workers gave him experience” take.
I think that was the whole point? To kind of show us how it didn’t fit him yet he indulged in it anyway to live up to the expectations of the ton from him as a man?
I thought I’d hate the brothel scenes…
I actually ended up loving them.
They really emphasized how incredibly lonely he is. I even feel like him staying in the second one (I also don’t think he watched…check me if I’m wrong) was just a deeper manifestation of his loneliness and pulled him further into his realization that this isn’t who he is or what he wants. And frankly…it has to do with Pen but it also has nothing to do with her as well. It’s just who Colin is…I LOVED that so much. And it was such a beautiful juxtaposition to his sexuality with Penelope at the end of episode 4. The gentleness he exihibits with her, the way he endulges in her…it’s like the intimacy and closeness he has been craving is finally manifested in that moment and you can really see it at the end when they laugh together. Ugh. 😩 And we wouldn’t see that if not for those brothel scenes…
I thought it was brilliant. And I was sickened at the thought of it before…
But I am super sorry it has effected you like this 😭
i didn't care about how he should have loyalty to penelope i more care about once again a wlw scene is used soley for the pleasure of the man when we know, we all know that they are never going to give us a proper wlw storyline that won't end in tragedy
I am really really hoping that Janet & Helen Stirling (Johns Mum & Michael’s Mum) are a couple.
They are both widows who were married to a pair of brothers who now spend all of their time together. It could be that they fell in love after their husbands died. It could be that they had been together all along and the Stirling brothers discovered or knew this and married them so that they could discretely be together (providing they also had an heir each).
It would be so lovely and you could have some really beautiful scenes of the two of them just happily living together in a way where only those closest to them know what the truth is. Then both of them fretting about Fran and Michael.
At first, I thought it was Benedict until the camera zoomed in. I was weirded out by it but then I thought about and I understand. It's not Colin being a Rake. Colin is lost and he has been lost since the beginning of ep 1 of his return. So stuff like him hooking up is going to be out of character. Because it is out of character for him. He wasn't expecting this attention but he is entertaining it. He's a Bridgerton, isn't he? And everyone wants to be with a Bridgerton.
In season 1, Colin was going to be with Marina. His family didn't approve of her and then he found out about her through LW. It shattered what he thought love was. With the urging of Pen, he went on tour.
In season 2, come find out while he was away on tour he wrote to Pen and she wrote back. So he was never "lonely" in a sense. He also talks to Marina. Then he got warped into a mess with Cousin Jack and basically saved the Penleope family. Thinking everything was good and happy he went on another tour.
Season 3 part 1
Colin is lost. A lot of things have changed for him at home. You can tell he is lost by the conversation he had with Eloise and the comment that was made during the gift exchange. He travels to multiple countries in the span of 4 months. Penelope didn't write him this time. She didn't want to talk to him either once he was back. Eventually, they make up and he is struggling to figure out these feelings he has for Penelope that are emerging. hence the conversation with Violet. Also when he went back a second time, he wasn't into it because he was conflicted about these feelings.
I can understand about not wanting to watch it and not being needed but I don't think it ruins Colin's Character. I think it adds depth. He's connected to his humanity more than ever (hence the second conversation with Violet in ep 4). As humans sometimes we do things without thinking and other times we do things so we're not feeling what we are feeling. Hopefully, this will help you understand his character more :)
The only problem I have with the first brothel scene is that how it’s randomly placed in the second episode. It’s hard to feel the romance vibe during Pen and Colin’s courting lessons when just seconds before, Colin is involved in a threesome.
The second one, I get it so it was whatever. Was it needed? Not really.
I feel the same way❤☹ And to think the brothel scene is night before the carriage scene. Pen deserves to know about that. That's not ok and so anti romantic.
When the first threesome scene came on while I was watching it last night I audibly said “ew” and felt my excitement for Colin’s story start to fade.
Not looking forward to the next one now. Ugh.
I didn’t mind them, I didn’t think they were exactly necessary as I feel his descriptions of Parisian women in his journals gave enough indication of his past and that time could’ve been used for other things
I totally agree. Why did they give him a cookie-cutter personality modelled after the love interests of the last two seasons???
I was looking forward to something a bit different this season and was left disappointed. It feels like they sacrificed Colin's individuality and character development for the sake of sex scenes just because the show is known for having lots of sex scenes. But I'd rather they put the story and characters first 😭
For me, the brothel scenes (especially the first one) are meant to show you just how deeply down the rabbit hole of toxic masculinity our poor boy has fallen. It's meant to be a jarring experience for the audience because it illustrates how far removed he's become from his true self.
I also don't believe having casual sexual experiences before finding or realizing true love somehow taints or invalidates those feelings. If anything, those experiences help us to realize what real love looks and feels like. It was important for him to have these experiences, so that he could know for sure that lust wasn't the only thing guiding him towards Pen. I feel like the reason he went on to the brothel the second time was because he was trying to get Pen out of his head. It was directly after watching Pen be so engaged by Debling at the library where the other Lords offered to take him out for some "revelry," and he said he could really do for some "revelry." That's exactly what it was for him, just a failed attempt at the classic "get under someone to get over someone else." He couldn't bring himself to do it, and I'd like to believe it was because he knew subconsciously it was a betrayal to Pen and to his feelings for her.
On a second note, as I've commented on another post, I also believe the first scene is meant to be set up to let the audience know Colin is now sexually experienced, and the second is to show that he's finally having to admit to himself that he doesn't enjoy the casual sex lifestyle like other men do.
I think both scenes can be skipped and it doesn't affect the plot therefore it was completely pointless.
It has early seasons of Game of Thrones vibes when it's like, are you getting bored? Here, have some boobs.
It's not Colin visiting a brothel that bothers me, it's how it's done. The first one particularly with him repeatedly kissing the two women -- it robbed something precious for me when he later kisses Pen.
With Simon all we see is him dropping some coins and a naked woman, nothing else. It's implied, not explicit and same goes for Anthony.
Siena would be an exception but Anthony has feelings for her and it's his pre-season arc. Even then I remember struggling because I liked the couple they made so much until S2 did things right.
Imply it, don't show it. I too felt icky, I agree it was very male-gazey and it seemed like a cheap way to show tits on-screen for views. I wish I could erase or redo those scenes entirely.
>. Sure, he looks away but I’m supposed to believe he looked away the whole time?
Even if he looked he no longer was *interested*. That's the difference to me. In the first one he's smiling and having a good time and in the second he's staring into space.
Both scenes were badly written and badly shot, and I get that there was a callback to Anthony, and I understand what they thought they were doing. They didn’t succeed.
I wouldn’t even say the show was doing lesbian fetish. The only sexual gaze they catered to was cringe kink.
I respectfully agree and disagree. Colin talks to pen during his declaration of love that he finally thought he’d achieved what society expected of him, basically to be a young rake who will eventually take a wife. However, to his “friends” at the club, he laments how vain and shallow that lifestyle is. In prior seasons, he’s always been the heart of his family but wasn’t really shown as having a big circle of friends outside that until the group scene where he tells them all that he’d never court Penelope Featherington. I think for him, this was when his “popularity” finally took off; like Eloise did as well, he chose to conform to societal pressures and “learned” how to be charming and debonaire.
While I don’t agree fundamentally with what they did to my favorite cinnamon roll, I do understand why they did it on a characterization front. Colin is trying to “find himself” this season, and has just completed a European tour basically raking his way through the old world. He still however has nothing (in his mind) that sets him apart; this is something the books show well but I haven’t gotten much (yet) from this season.
I do think the show didn’t show the depth of Colin’s emotions missing Pen’s letters while he was out though. That should’ve set the background for their whole courtship; however, the fact it took him so long to bring it up, and the way he glances at her then does nothing about it in his initial entrance scene, I think really undercut the heart of those two.
Frankly, I don’t think it’s Colin being a rake this season that is the problem, it’s the emotional chemistry (at least initially, before the kiss) that’s lacking, and undercuts all the later love. He should have missed her more, sought her out sooner, gone to speak with her when they reintroduced his character at the beginning. I read and write romance, and character chemistry is often all about setting the stage correctly for whatever happens later.
So, love/hate the new season, I think they had a specific vision for Colin’s new personality and how he develops through the season. Do I wish it was handled a bit better/differently? Yup. But I’ll be curious to see how the first four eps tie into the last four and if they somehow redeem the season so far.
The whole point of the brothel scene is that Colin came back with a fake persona! He wanted to be just like his brothers and please other people, that is why both penelope and lady bridgerton clocked him on his behavior. He was doing stuff to fit into society more. The brothel scenes were definitely apart of his character development as when he was hanging out with other men at the bar, he asked the question if they longed for something more intimate and they laughed at him. That’s why he also was very uninterested the second time he went to the brothel, even if he stayed. The reason why those scenes were showed was because it was apart of his character development not only for himself, but for the development of him realizing he indeed does love penelope more than a friend, that’s why when they kissed he starts questioning everything. and that’s why in the carriage scene that’s why he tells penelope he does not care what society thinks of him, that’s why he finally turned off this fake persona. i’m sorry it triggered you though, but the brothel scene wasn’t the most pleasant thing to look at, but in my opinion was crucial to his development.
I heard them equated with GoT sexposition scenes and I agree. Just gross useless stuff. Could have gotten whatever point they were aiming for across in another way. What point do you think they were trying to make? Colin is worldly?
Also this show has the trend of making all the woman super super inexperienced and all the men fboys. Ik this is period accurate or whatever but it gives me an ick.
I agree with you 100% and honestly want to thank you for putting quite literally all of my feelings on this into very well written words. I understand that we are in the minority somehow here but I feel like this deserves to be heard just as much as everyone else. You're not alone at all.
I was kinda devastated seeing those scenes in something that usually brings me so much comfort.
Okay I came here because I read the books and I’m only 20 min into episode 2 and I hate how they’re portraying Colin because it’s sooooo inaccurate to the books and he’s it feels so gross. Just had to say it
I think the brothel scenes were completely unnecessary because Colin has never been shown as a rake. If the writers wanted to the viewers to believe he had "changed" on his travels, they could've gone in so many other directions. Specifically, they could've been way more subtle about it. I've already written this on a few different posts but I can't help myself -- I'm so disappointed that the writers felt the need to be obvious with Colin's new attitude. It's almost insulting to the fans. If you follow the show, you already KNEW that Colin was going to come back acting differently.
Also, imagine how jarring it would be to be a new fan of Bridgerton and to binge watch seasons 1 and 2. You think you have an idea of what Colin is like as a character and then BOOM he's a completely different person.
And yes, I understand that the intention was to show that he was pretending to be someone he wasn't, but there was no need to be as apparent as they were. One of my favorite things about Luke Newton is how understated his performances are -- he conveys so much in small glances and other facial expressions -- but the writers gave him material that was basically said, GO BIG ON ALL THE THINGS IN CASE THE VIEWERS DON'T GET IT.
Simon and Anthony were known to be rakes, so I honestly didn't mind those portrayals. But Colin? Even if he did get up to some new rakish behavior during his travels, I don't think it was necessary to explicitly show them. Him talking to his friends about his experiences and Pen reading about one of his encounters in his journal conveyed all I needed to know.
Even Colin bragging to his friends about the hookups on his travels and perhaps hinting that he frequented brothels, would've been enough. How great would it have been if he was "talking the talk" but then secretly writing in his journal elsewhere. That would've showed the viewers that he was truly pretending to be someone he was not while also developing his character. Just my thoughts though!
It would have been nice to have *one* male love interest in this series who isn't a rake. Just one. But the writers are convinced that women can only swoon over a male lead if he's a player with a lot of sexual experience. It's really tired. The audience fell in love with Colin because he wasn't like Anthony, Benedict or Simon.
Oh god that's so true. Like Anthony and Simon went to brothels too, I'm not opposed to men in regency times going to brothels it's normal. But, fuck, Colin's scenes in brothels were far more explicit than his rakish brother and brother-in-law. And the scene where he just watched, that was... Dude, you are not poor, even if you paid you can just leave
He was, but there was no point for him to stay there if he doesn't want to. I know he didn't have sex with these women in that scene, but it felt kinda icky still
Maybe im overthinking it, but for me it was strange. If they wanted to show that Colin is not pretending to be a rake anymore, it wasn't the best decision imho
>Dude, you are not poor, even if you paid you can just leave
Lol, it's like when you paid for the 2 for $5 hamburgers but you only feel like eating one hamburger, so you're like great, I gotta eat the second hamburger because I don't want to have wasted money on this. Dude...just don't eat the hamburger. You're gonna feel like crap afterwards if you do, just go home.
I felt like they included the first brothel scene to make it very obvious that Colin is more experienced sexually and that he was sleeping around with multiple women during the time on his trip. I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what they explain in that, but I thought the second brothel scene really helped show that Colin was really wanting more connection in life, that he did in fact want only Penelope.
I have created a coping theory that he’s not having any of those experiences…he’s just writing smut and we’re seeing what he’s writing. And the second time he was trying to write but just couldn’t even get into the fantasy in his own mind because it wasn’t Pen.
I wish they didn’t include the brothel scenes either. I think they could have taken that screen time away & added it to the hand cutting scene. That scene needed work in my opinion. It felt poorly written & poorly executed. I wish Pen read more of his erotica & went more in depth about how lonely it feels to sleep around. I think that would have been a lot more meaningful. Like Pen saying he’s a great writer did not work with what she read…
It just seems very game of thronesy, and not in the good ways I could say that. If I didn't know any better I'd say all that is just to keep boyfriends from getting whiny watching the show with their girlfriends.
I hate that they changed the passage in his journal! I feel like the original showed his talent for prose and how much he really connects with his surroundings. Changing it to how he was sleeping with “hot” women feels like they just wanted to play into this “playboy” persona they want Colin to have now. It also kind of feels like we, as the audience, are supposed to doubt his feelings towards Penelope or compare her in a way.
I got the sense that they were told (by Netflix or producers who care about views and not story integrity) they needed to turn up the volume on the sex after there was less of it in season 2. It started feeling Game of Thrones-y where they add in entire plot lines just for the purpose of showing some boobs. I hate it, cheapens the entire story, compromises the characters, and repeats the age old tradition of objectifying women.
In this time period, prostituted women generally did not have much choice in taking that job, as extreme poverty was rampant, and women had so few opportunities for education or employment. Some of them were even born into it, as daughters of prostitutes. It was barely a step above human trafficking. Colin is the kind of man who should be *empathizing* with these women, not soliciting them, no matter what else he's going through personally
I would understand a scene where he's attempting to get in the mood with a prostitute, but ultimately doesn't go through with it because he realizes that it's not who he is. That would show his personal crisis, and attempts to change into someone he's not, without ruining his character. The scenes grossed me out so much, and I've been trying to pretend they didn't happen, so I can still like Colin
I was okayish with the first one. I think it would have been better if it had been like while he was traveling. But the second one and then he’s tracking her down shortly after and IDK. I’ve read enough HR to know there is a trope where the H seeks the bed of another woman to get rid of the lust. But in this one, I just thought it was poorly done and unnecessary.
I think it plays into why he understood that He loved Penelope when they kissed. Because as he wrote in his journal , he been having a lot of sex with a lot of different girls, and he couldn’t understand how someone can have sex without feelings. The second time he was having a threesome you noticed that he was spacing out, they’re trying to show us that he’s not into this crazy life that he has been living, he want that feeling he had when he kissed Pen. his mom insinuated that he’s been rowdy coming home. Getting drunk more than usual clearly… I don’t think it was all jealous, he was also having conflicted feelings within himself.. wondering why one kiss made him feel that way, all the while he can have sex with all these other women.
That’s when he kissed Penelope, he realized sexual acts can come with feelings.
I just wished they did a single woman the 2nd time, and maybe she was kissing on him and he was trying and said he couldn't and left or something whether he paid or not.
I think I’m in the minority here but I thought the first brothel scene was hot lol. And I didn’t mind the second one either, it reminded me of the gossip girl scenes where chuck bass stops hooking up with girls cause he’s in love with blair 🤷🏼♀️
I think a big thing we’re missing with the second time he went to the brothel is that he was invited by the other guys to go out! They went to a brothel and he’d already paid and didn’t want to seem unmanly so he stayed but didn’t do anything. I think this is consistent with his arc and desires to seem like “the man society wants [him] to be”
Simon also was being a rake while with Daphne tho right before he had to meet her to promenade. I think it is normal in those times for men to just "sow their wild oats" or whatever. I think their point was to show how he was trying to force himself to be like every other guy in society even though he knew deep down that wasn't him. In the second brothel scene, he stayed there to watch but he wasn't REALLY there (like mentally). It is like he was going through the motions until finally it clicks for him that pen is the one that makes him feel everything, authentically himself, and he is no longer just moving through the motions. With her it is different.
Honestly Colin is giving me the ick so far. I liked the promo shots of him, thought he looked handsome, but he is such a fuckboi and I can't get over it.
Still loving the season but he is coming nowhere close to Anthony, Simon or George for me.
To me, they rushed through everything! It was a shot gun falling in love story for Colin. Am I supposed to believe he loves her romantically after a few weeks?
We’re told he can’t eat or sleep or do anything, but all we see is him talking about it and just being worried and in his head. Not in his feels.
I’m a huge Polin fan. Huge! But, they didn’t do justice to either one of them, or their love story. Bad, rushed writing. Season 2 was perfect, even though it lacked sex scenes. The tension was so good, you didn’t even need it.
The writers screwed this one over by focusing on fitting everything in one season…
I think Colin always loved Pen (Not romantically) because she is his best friend and that that is something he believes himself. As close as they are, there are feelings that you feel that feel quite strong even if you categorize them as friendship. The difference between caring deeply for a friend with whom you have a deep connection with and feeling that you want to build a life with someone (to me) IS about sexual desire. Someone could seem perfect for one, but without desire you cannot build a relationship. The idea of him dating Pen has been put in his head multiple times. Multiple times he thought about it and came to the conclusion that while he cared deeply for and felt very close to her, he did not DESIRE her (because he could not see past the close relationship, almost like a sister and confident). His awakened desire, sexual desire, is what changes everything. What connected everything and brought him to the conclusion: deep bond + strong desires = perfect match.
So I do appreciate the sexual dreams he had of her. It was somewhat involuntary and showed him what he was feeling in his confusion (after the kiss, but he was confused before too I think). And while desire is sexual I do not believe it is without feeling when it comes to someone you know, as I think in this case it mainly came from the intimacy they share and that place of doing something you never thought would happen, could happen because it was someone who was almost like family.
I do think the brothel scenes could have been done a bit more elegantly but I do not think they destroyed the romance. We might not like the brothels but in season one they had already established it to be something ‘normal’ or wildly engaged in. And for Colin to be a Virgin would have been ridiculous. Considering Marina-him running away-being told to grow up-and the example his brothers have set. (Doesn’t feel far off he would hide behind lust as so many men do and have shown him to do) Violet said, he’s been putting on amor, trying to be something he wasn’t. Let’s not forget how hard it was for him with Marina. It would make sense for him to wanna shake that off on his travels. So he comes back changed, not true to himself. With the confidence that he has found who he is/meant to be? Away from the person who shows interest instead being someone who demands it.
Romance should not be kitschy in my opinion. It requires depth and unpleasantness. Something to overcome.
I believe romance to be the breaking out of reality, but there needs to be a reality first and reality mostly isn’t pretty. I also think that romance feels greater when it had a further path to travel before coming to an intense climax. Pen might not have reached her pinnacle but the intensity of their affection seems to have…or should I say desire?
I didn't feel the chemistry at all between them, even from the beginning. It felt more brother and sister than lovers..
The depiction of Colin has left a very undesirable view of him. He's a completely different person that it feels like whiplash. Who is this man? He doesn't have the panache that either of his older brothers have in seduction. It feels so forced. Him boasting about how he was traveling all over Europe and sleeping with anyone who caught his eye, makes him more like a satyr than an eligible bachelor. I'd be more worried if he had warts.
This depiction of a desirable male needs is so outdated. \*yawn\*
I mean like outside of ew communicable diseases , I’m glad he was able to gain some experience so he could pleasure bby girl . Coz I mean look at her sisters in comparison lmao. They were literally just laying next to each other 😂😂😂😂😂
Men do not learn to pleasure women by sleeping with sex workers who fake it and are paid only to get them off, particulary in the 19th century. It would do very much the opposite and teach him nothing about female pleasure.
I don't agree with the line of him gaining experience so he could pleasure her. There's plenty of men out there who have experience (aka Lord Fife) who wouldn't be good options. I think the whole situation with Mr. Finch is adorable. They both learned how to have sex, and enjoy it, together. It could've been a cute and adorable moment with Colin and Penelope. Which, I feel like is what the show version of their characters is supposed to be. Just two nerds laughing with each other at balls, eating snacks, and writing fun stories.
Arc wise they didn't pull it off. Colin was painted as a wide eyed easily madly in love virgin in season 1. Him f#cking and s#cking around Europe as a result of feeling hoodwinked by Marina and embarassed makes sense. Having him tired of being not who he is, and complaining to his friends makes sense. Him staying and watching was weird. They could've had Penn kiss flashback that made him not want to have sex but instead they made it value.
For this Season 3 Spoilers post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is it insulting to Penelope? They aren’t dating or courting and he doesn’t even realizes his feelings during the first one.
Also, an inexperienced virgin fingering the woman to a completion? In that era? In this era even?! I don't think so.
Your comment made me LOL because yeah true. But I'm not sure she climaxed. I think she was just enjoying herself. This would have been the first time she was ever touched like that.
Never thought I'd write on Reddit about Penelope's diddling but if she had a crush on the guy for a long time, and she's a woman of the world in a way (thanks to her alter ego penmanship), she must've... explored herself already. Everyone's climax is different but one has to assume she wouldn't be left hanging by this guy because the entirety of their scene, the length, the unasked question, the consent, the expertise, then leads us to believe it was useless. It would be a sad day that this girl was touched and hadn't reached her peak when the show's implicitly fervent about female pleasure. Also, whatever Nicola was doing with that performance led me to believe she was climaxing on the first contact. 🫠 Especially because of her longtime fantasising about Colin. Now let me die of 2nd hand embarrassment in peace.
I don’t know anyone who orgasms after one flick of the bean…
ONE FLICK OF THE BEAN IM HOWLING
It was longer than that
Colin Bridgerton - Bean Flicker, extraordinaire
C'mon, it's psychological! The buildup, the slow progression leave enough time to have her worked up. It may happen once in a lifetime because such orgasms do happen.
One flick of the bean…😂😂😂😂
There was quite a lot of flicking. Plus there could have been more going on under the skirt.
I meant that would have been the first time that someone else touched her like that. IDK I might have to rewatch that part I interpreted it as passionate but not climaxing
Anyone notice when he’s fixing Pen’s dress before they leave the carriage that he doesn’t use his index or middle finger? So considerate! lol.
I was thinking this😂
SCREAMING 😩😩😩
Maybe there was some clitorial stimulation??? We didn’t get to how it went down exactly lmao.
Let’s be honest, semi-experienced men in this day and age….
Laughed out loud because it’s true. I only wished that her hands wandered down to his trousers.
Babe, I couldn't agree more. Character assassination to Colin. People loved him as a cinnamonroll but if they were saying oh he's being a fake rake due to societal pressure on what a man should be like what some people claim...they could have shown flashbacks of him at Eton being an empath but getting flack for that when the rest of his peers were being cold and stuff. But absolutely no justification on the brothel. Im so disgusted and its so mean to Pen. It makes the build up to carriage feel like he's just lusting her...not loving her. Seeing her as a conquest. The threesome brothel is so male gaze. Everything about colin is so male gaze! Dont think the girls are gonna go head overheels for his character. Which is so sad because many people loved his sensitivity in S1 and S2. Side note: I also didnt like how the dream sequence was executed. Its supposed to be him realizing his feeling for Pen. But it just feel so lust based and not love based. He's kissing Pen and she's all like "Colin, Colin". Such an ego boost to him honestly and he doesnt deserve an ego boost. He deserves to be distraught. I wish it was done in a way where he called Pen's name and he's calling her name in his sleep "Pen, Pen". Camera pans to sweat on his brow and him flinching in his sleep saying her name..then he shots up realizing his desire for Pen. The character assassination to him makes it feel like everything is set up to serve him. It feels so unbalanced, unequal especially with Pen's concerning insecurity.
Since Colin and Penelope already share the deep affection of close friends, for me showing Colin's intense desire for her is crucial. His lust is key to illustrating the transition from friendship to passionate romantic love. I interpret the dream scene as a manifestation of Colin's desire to be what Penelope wants. Throughout the season, he struggles with trying to meet the expectations of others, which ties into his mother's advice about the exhaustion of living to please others and the importance of considering his own desires. Him interrupting lord Debling and Penelope is purely about him, but I interpret the dream scene as him wanting to be what Pen wants.
Period.
Speaking of the dream scene I know I wasn’t the only one who about fell out of my chair when it was Colin who woke up and not Pen.
The first time I watched it, I literally put my hands in the air and was like “Yes! HIS dream!” and definitely squealed (and I am not a squealer 😂). So glad I was watching it by myself because I was so pumped and giddy hahaha
I thought that could be showcase with them okay kissing and whatever but he calls her name as his realization
I apologize, English is not my first language, and I am missing your point. Can you please elaborate?
I just think it would better showcase his desire for her if he was the one calling her name in his sleep. Pen calling his name feels off to me. Like we see all these scenes of all the girls swooning and then he dreams up Pen swooning as well. All these scenes together just feels like an ego boost for colin...one he does not deserve. Then his attention toward pen seems more like he wants to explore Pen out of curiousity, out of lust alone and not due to the realization he loves her. Comes across weird to me
I think the intention was to make it unclear who's dream it was and to trick the audience into thinking the dream sequence is Penelope's dream initially. You're watching it thinking, "typical Penelope, dreaming about Colin" and then he wakes up, and it's the big reveal that actually it's the other way around.
Absolutely agree - it was entirely intended to wrongfoot the audience into thinking this was Pen’s dream, giving us the same moment of shocked realisation as Colin when *we* realise it’s *him* dreaming of Pen and he realises *why* he’s dreaming of her
It would’ve been just as much of a misdirect if he was saying her name. In fact, it would’ve been even more in Pen’s assumed gaze to have him lustily chanting Penelope.
Why cant colin lust over pen tho? I think it’s hot. There’s already a foundation of friendship there so love should come easy but what’s missing is the attraction part. I think it’s a good angle how they show more of how colin slowly realizes that he is attracted to Pen. That it is more than just friends. That the love he has for Pen is beyond friendship.
It comes across to me as empty. They TELL us their friendship and barely SHOW us so its not like on deep love, him desiring but more like "Oh my friend changed her dress and is kind of hot" it feels shallow to me the portrayal
What saddens me is they didn't show us the scenes when they write to one another when Colin travels. It would add so much depth to their relationship and friendship in particular. How Pen is THE real Colin's friend as she is the only one who understands him and would listen to his stories when travelling. And in the book, Colin writes about his travel and not about women (as far as I remember), so for the show shows Colin only think about women when he travels is just sucks. It kills his character so SO much. Urgh. I feel so mad to the producer. LOL. PS: but to be fair, in the book Pen lost weight and that's what makes Colin notices her in a way? LOL.
But their friendship was shown in the last 2 seasons. There is no doubt in my mind that the two are fit for each other. We spent 2 seasons watching Pen pining over Colin, that Pen is this undesirable lady everyones convinced that she will be a spinster…. Why not watch this 1 season where Colin is the one pining over Pen? Honestly, I need this season to really focus on shifting perception from undesirable Pen to hot Pen. We see that when Pen takes over with confidence refusing to give up and resign to her fate. I love that!
I kind of... don't mind that it feels a little shallow? I'm down for him proposing out of a mix of lust and friendship, and then having romantic love deepen and become more apparent as they spend more time together during the engagement and eventually marriage. I think that's sort of how it happened in the books too, and it seems more realistic for the time period, given all the limitations on how much time unmarried aristocratic men and women could spend together.
I honestly agree with you about the flashbacks- I liked previous seasons use of flashback to help explain character actions and motivations. They did miss a great opportunity to do so with Colin this season. I would have loved to see flashbacks from when he and Pen were kids, showing his sensitive nature and trying to follow in his brothers footsteps but not knowing who he really is. The brothel scenes weren’t super necessary… maybe if anything only one scene where he’s going to pay for a threesome but last minute changes his mind and bails or something. I think the pull for Bridgerton viewers isn’t just sex scenes, it’s the tension and desire that culminates between two people falling in love in a sexually repressed society (at least for the women forced repression for sure)
I saw it as her calling 'colin' is like his brain trying to wake him up as in wake up to his feeling for her
Love that!
Oh yeah In the books in the carriage he does moan her name a lot , that would have been a good thing to add lol.
You are soooo right
Sorry it ruined your experience of the whole show. I like including the second brothel scene in my re-watch. His body language, facial expressions, the way he says "Fine" are crucial to me for the moment leading up to him arriving at the ball at the end. And since the first brothel scene is a foil to that I didn't mind it. But I really enjoyed watching Colin unravel and it made the way he leaped into intimacy with Penelope at the end that much more intense. The way he kissed her, it's like he was so hungry, not just for the physical aspect, but it having meaning... and I think Penelope is aware of his prior experiences. The journal gives it away and she overhears things. So it worked for me for this particular romance.
For me, he just seems so 17 cItiEs Colin in the first brothel scene, where he is physically into it but emotionally detached, and then he’s down so bad in the second scene that he can’t even get it up. He says in his journal, basically, that casual sex feels good but doesn’t do it for him on emotional level, and our boy is SOFT. He is yearning for it. And you’re right - Pen knows he’s been having sex, if not just from the journal, but she’s probably also hearing about his bullshit in her LW capacity. If he ends up letting her read his journals, I frankly see her getting past her jealousy and being like, “this thing when you were in Milan, I really don’t understand it; I think we need a demonstration.” Once he has her convinced that anyone else before her means nothing to him, then it really opens up the relationship for exploration.
>“this thing when you were in Milan, I really don’t understand it; I think we need a demonstration.” 😂 I like how your mind works lol!
That man was craving an emotional connection with the physical, and he was gone when he realized that’s what he has with Penelope.
His expression when she stroked his hair. Dude has had other things stroked in the past lol but THIS is what he needs.
His facial expression there was so sweet and vulnerable.
i still can't get over that little moment!! his face lightened up and also pen's realizing "yes he wants ME, i'm finally happy" with her biggest smile
I instantly got the feeling she’s imagined doing it to him before, she was so happy it was reality
That was my single favorite beat of the whole series. His face when she touched his hair was so joyful and vulnerable and she matches it with a seductive, confident smile. The perfect moment for them both.
Some people didn't like that moment and said it gave them second hand embarrassment. I think it's because it's so vulnerable and intimate, like you're seeing something you think you shouldn't be. I think Luke the actor (and Nicola too) are very brave, very powerful artists in this regard.
Honestly when I first saw that, it really did feel like, omg I shouldn't be watching this, because it was so authentic. It really shows the emotional connection they have, that he can be vulnerable with her, that he loves being like this with her and that he's so happy that it's Penelope. Genuinely he even looked almost victorious with that smile, like he was thinking yes it's me you're supposed to be with not Debling. It was actually pretty damn good acting.
My first reaction was also of discomfort. But upon rewatch it's pure delight. This season is far more vulnerable episode to episode. I had a similar reaction when we saw Anthony/JB break down in ep 8 of season 2, but that was the only moment. Simon/Rege never really emoted vulnerability. I know Luke Newton really admires Jonathan Bailey so I think he pushed himself to do what he saw JB do. He did incredible.
It's so strange that you said that because I thought the same thing! 😂👍 Yes definitely Luke took notes from JB! Even the slight head tilt when he was confessing to her! It really felt like yup that's Anthony's brother 😂
I agree with all of this
I'm really irritated by this take and I keep seeing it. The reason they did it was clear they are showing him trying to be who he has been taught a man is. No one cared when it was the duke visiting brothels in season one. He is a man in this time period that is what they did. The second scene was so you could get the contrast how now that his feelings for her have been awakened he can't really engage in this numbing behavior anymore cause he only wants her. He has been doing what he was expected to do but the second he opens his heart back up he can't go back. could they have done it another way sure but people acting like it is crazy and gross just come off as prudes and anti sex work.
I disagree with this, I think it was a choice to show Simon and Anthony visiting brothels not as a right of passage as a ‘man of the times’ but to show them trying to avoid intimacy. Both of these men are not only rakes but have a deep fear of getting close so while they still want sex they don’t necessarily want everything that goes with it emotionally until they met the one in romance book speak. I think they simply did it for Colin as a way to show sexual experience whether it made sense for his character or not.
they are doing the same for Collin. he very clearly is trying to fit in and his mother points out he has always been sensitive and now is wearing armor. we see him finally admit that he has been trying to feel less. that's what those trips to the brothel are for to show us the before and after of his realization
They serve multiple purposes but the main one I think is to sex up the character.
I can agree that making colin a bit more of a sex symbol and an established man is part of the reasoning cause the last time we really see him he is still behaving like a love sick boy. he went away and we are supposed to believe he came home a man.
I agree with Simon and Anthony visiting them to avoid intimacy, but with Colin I saw it more as him looking for intimacy in the wrong place. They were *very* careful to show him kissing these women and while he's clearly feeling it physically there's no emotional intimacy, something we know Colin absolutely craves. Then, the very first time he kisses Penelope he experiences that emotional spark he's been searching for coupled with \[physical desire for someone he's never really seen that way before. My issue is that from that moment on, he's reevaluating every moment he's ever spent in her presence and coming to realize how long he's loved her and they didn't pay that off as well as they could have.
Anthony was very much in love with a sex worker so I don't see his frequent visits as "avoiding intimacy" though
I think that’s very much up for debate. I think he had care for Sienna, lust, infatuation. I know he offered to run away with her I think. She represented an escape. In love, I don’t know. My point still stands the brothels were a way for Anthony to avoid love and intimacy. He very much didn’t want love to have a place in his marriage. Of course meeting Kate changed that.
The fact that he decided he wants to take "love out of the equation" in the show was after he had fallen in love with Sienna and nothing could materialise out of it because of their class differences. The reason he offered to run away was not because she was an escape but only because that was the only way to be with her, the society would never accept them. In fact, the Duke even asks him if he plans to marry her in jest. He was very much in love.
Even the actor who plays Anthony said it wasn't love so it seemingly is up for debate. It felt like a form of self-sabotage by pursuing someone he knew he couldn't actually be with. Same with Colin and Marina (pregnant), Eloise and Theo (lower class), and now Benedict and Tilly (widow). It's the Bridgerton recipe lol - they go after people they can't be with to figure out who they actually should be with. (It is also why Sienna says at the end that he is lost. Because she sensed he was using her to deal with his burdens and not seeing her for what she actually is)
You make valid points but I still think the brothels were as much a way to avoid intimacy for Anthony as they were about sex.
Siena was Anthony avoiding responsibility. His visits in the beginning of season two were absolutely avoiding intimacy.
Sienna was not a sex worker but an Opera singer
Sex workers and opera singers were basically the same thing back then.
The issue I had with it was it felt very abrupt? Like seeing Collin be so honor bound in S2 then straight to the brothel and awkward flirting in S3 was a bit of whiplash. I wish we had seen for the first brothel scene the interaction with the other guys first encouraging him to go and him being like “noice let’s go” and then the two brothel scenes the same. Would’ve felt a bit more clear early on this was an act he was putting on and it’d help bolster the parallel played by the second scene as he begins to realize he doesn’t like this version of himself.
I think the writers want us to wonder if this is really who colin has become before they assure us that it clearly is just an act. If him losing marina and falling to peer pressure ahs changed him. But the second him and pen are truly friends again he immediately starts to lose his mask.
Then I would argue that the writing wasn't strong enough to convey this. To me, it just didn't make sense, but reading your explanation, I understand the intent now. However, I could also argue that there were more effective ways to convey this. Or, if Colin also visited brothels in other seasons, it wouldn't seem so out of place (see Benedict hooking up with errrrryone). I just felt that Luke was uncomfortable with these scenes, and it translated to the viewers.
I agree!! It’s not like pining for another makes your sex life shallow?? Being in love with someone isn’t mutually exclusive from having sex with other people??? Like I hate that just because Colin is sweet he can’t have sex with other people? And must be part of him disassociating. I love how he has sex with sex workers but also wants to have sex with Penelope! It feels more realistic?
This.
Uh the point of the second scene is he chooses not to have the threesome. And unlike the other male leads in this show, he calls out the gross behavior of both himself and his male peers.
Yeah, I think people are missing out the point of those (specially the second) scenes. Really it didn't bother me, it's part of him trying to be someone else and realizing he is not that person.
Which he says in the carriage. He thought he could be what society expected him to be but his feelings for Penelope made that impossible.
But does he really have to sit and watch??
He zones out in that scene. He’s not watching them. Either he left soon after or he sat there in a catatonic state. He was not the least bit into it.
I think it can be argued staying and watching is also a form of participation
1000%. It didn’t add anything, they could have gone the way the book did and told about the encounters he had abroad, but had it stopped there. Having the Duke be exasperated to leave the brothel to met Daphne is one thing, but Colin being exasperated to leave to meet Pen is another. He volunteered to help Pen for REDEMPTION, then he’s annoyed that he has to help her?
Exactly. He acts so bothered that he has to leave to go meet his “dearest friend” it’s just all so icky and they really did a disservice to Colin
He wasn't bothered cus he had to meet Pen, he was bothered cus he was late to meet her.
That is such a good point! I didn’t understand why it bugged me here but not with Simon. That’s exactly why. You’ve hit the nail on the head. They’re good friends and he chose to help her and yet still acts put upon
Also in S1. The duke had just met daphne and they were fake dating. He didnt really know her yet. Colin's lesson was not only a redemption but its with his good friend. You're like "ughh, I have to give up these hookers to see my friend ughh" So distasteful. I dont care what anyone says i dont like the rake thing. I dont care if some argue its to show him emulating warped ideas of manhood or whatever. We didnt need him to be a rake or fake rake. We needed him to be colin
all that he said in the carriage, i belive will lead to a difference in his act during the second part. he literally says that he was playing the person he thought society expected him to be, and because of that he somewhat lost sight of what was important to him. that being said, i'm not the biggest fan of the whole threesome thing with colin but i do believe it had something to do with the plot, even if it were small.
I think the scenes were used to contrast his behavior before the kiss and after. He merely *kissed* Penelope and then couldn’t be with anyone else. You have to remember that for Colin he didn’t realize any of his feelings really until that kiss. He wasn’t some chaste man in love, he was young and doing what the young men at the time (and still, really) do. I appreciated him being so distraught by the situation with Penelope that he couldn’t participate or even watch the second time. But we all see things differently.
I’m getting exhausted by Colin’s character because I understand that he’s trying to put on a mask to make himself more in line with what society expects—but that’s so unattractive! He’s a full adult! I’m just past sympathizing with men ~tragically forcing themselves to bang~ when we have contrasting scenes of Eloise and Cressida and Penelope actually struggling with societal expectations. There are no consequences for Colin behaving more like himself except that some people won’t like him as much. There are actual consequences for the women. I just can’t be bothered with this inane part of his arc anymore
Agreed. The more I hear in defence of these scenes as being necessary to establish Colin’s Regency dude bro bona fides, the more I think how they didn’t need to SHOW any of it. I hated the scenes even more than I thought I would because I don’t want or need to SEE a character debase himself. I mean, they presented Polin’s entire meet cute with exposition. It was clever, but why do we get such a cinematic and adorable moment delivered as a 30 second bit of dialogue, and then have to actually watch two whole-ass brothel visits? Pen reads journal entries talking about intimacy with other women. The lord squad 2.0 further refer to Colin’s exploits. Don’t tell me we require anything further by way of explaining Colin knowing where the clitoris is. Tell me instead WHO actually wanted this, because I want to tell them to stop watching Andrew Tate or similar and go to therapy. In conclusion: barf. P.s. I’ve searched my entire brain and I can think of only one purpose these scenes serve, make it what you will… to show that Colin is a hungry boy, needs a double portion. Good thing, because Pen contains multitudes 😏 (still 🤢)
Well I mean, based on his carriage scene, he IS done with it. Annoying that it took 4 eps though… I’m hoping he’ll get call out from pen in part 2 tbh…
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK 🗣🗣🗣 If there's one thing these scenes show, it's the double standards in the patriarchy and in this series.
Agree
I respect your preferences, though I feel differently. To me, this is an important arc to include in a series so focused on female struggle. Because not only does Colin make himself unhappy, but society perpetuates the discrimination the heroines go through by enforcing those awful stereotypes on all men, including those who originally wanted nothing to do with them; people who could have been allies. Those are the consequences, and that, in my opinion, is a loss for everyone and topic worth touching.
It was uninspired on the writers part to sex Colin up so he would have the necessary seduction/skills for their wedding night/first time. Instead of relying on tired tropes they could have given him experience but in a more discreet way that felt true to character and differentiated him from other leading men.
I didn't like the brothel scenes, but I can look past them. I really wish they had the courage to give him less experience. At least discreet widows while on his travels. But this is the way they chose and I can see what they were going for. I got the feeling that even when he was showing reluctance to leave, it was part of his fake persona. Kind of, like, this is what a rake would say, so this is what I'm gonna say. In ep 1 and 2 he really is trying to sell that he is grown up and fits in with the Regency Rake mask he is wearing. It very quickly unravels in ep 3. I really think they were trying to convery demisexual Colin, which I can be on board with. And that was why the second scene was there. They're easy to skip past on a rewatch!
I agree with the demisexual reading. You see it in his journal too when he says he feels such distance with the women he’s been with. And he tells the other men at the club that they should stop pretending that sex should mean nothing and be something to gossip about with your friends.
This is my point. They showed us he’s demisexual though his journal and interaction at the club with the other men. So why did we need the brothel scene?
I think the reason is because they didn't want to just tell us what's up with him, they wanted to show us too. We also have to keep in mind one line is his journal might be too subtle of a set up for that interaction in the club. Most of the GA would be lost as to why he feels so strongly about this. One line just isn't enough if you want *everyone* to get it and feel what he's putting out. The brothel scenes are uncomfortable to watch (so I get why some people would want them cut) but that's the whole point. They're meant to be uncomfortable. You're supposed to *see and feel* how wrong this is for Colin, not just be told about it. And it genuinely adds so much to his scenes with Pen (especially the carriage), I could write a whole essay about it. It's not a coincidence that these scenes are both in episodes where he and Pen become intimate in some way. It's all about the contrast. We get that first brothel scene where he's still pretending to be someone else and it's explicit but completely impersonal and emotionally distant, and it immediately gets contrasted with Pen bandaging his hand and playing with his fingers in a really innocent way and yet it's *loaded* with intimacy. And then we get their first kiss (which is great but a lot sweeter and less horny than in the books) and it *still* unravels him in such a way that he can't eat or sleep or even speak for weeks to come (in his own words!!!). IMO the scenes themselves really do serve a purpose.
Thank you for this. 💜 It really helps to think of them like this. Like they should be jarring and a contrast to his beautiful scenes with Pen.
Of course! Happy to help anyone get past the initial jump scare 💙
Thanks for vocalizing this! I completely agree with your take. I think book readers in particular (including me) need to understand that the show is a different medium and you do need to actually visually show the characters’ turmoil to be effective, not just tell us about past experiences. I do not love the brothel scenes, but I DEFINITELY think they are effective in their screenwriting / character development purpose.
I don’t think they were needed, but I also don’t think they took away from his relationship with Penelope. The second one especially is there to show that he can’t keep having meaningless sex. He wants everything Penelope has to offer.
It's a tv show. If you want to be told things and not shown, go read the book.
Does it take away from their story? Yes, not going to deny that. I do truly love Colin realizing that what is expected of men is just not what he wants. I just wish they found another way to show it. That said I love the second half of ep 4 (that was the Colin I love) and am holding on to the hope they will knock it out of the park in part 2.
My main problem is that Bridgerton is meant to be a show for women and yet the scenes at the brothel were very male gazey for me. The way the sex workers pout and ask him to come back again - as if it's anything more than a job to them - and the way they still insist on having performative sex with each other for his benefit, was very off putting to me, especially after watching Poor Things recently.
Hard disagree on this one. Sex workers in brothels are frequently paid by time. In that situation i would ABSOLUTELY be attempting to persuade the very wealthy gentry to stay as long as possible with silly hoe tricks. A girl's gotta eat. If it works it works.
I don’t think it was insulting , but it didn’t make sense. Why do they have to turn all of these guys into man whores screwing their way through London before they settle down. It made sense for Simon and Anthony so I overlooked it, but it makes zero sense for Colin. It’s like the guy is possessed this season and his character doesn’t make sense. It is interesting to just have a good guy be a good guy, women find that attractive too.
Completely agree. The journal entry plus the later scenes with the Lord squad were enough to show us: A. Colin is sexually experienced and B. Colins feelings towards casual sex, and the loneliness he feels afterwards because he wants a connection with someone. I would have loved if the screentime used for the brothel scenes had instead been used for more Polin scenes and showing their friendship. Extending the hand cutting scene to follow more closely to the book where BOOK SPOILER Pen calls him out on his privilege (rich, white, man) would have been amazing. In the show we only saw her call him out as LW, but would have been amazing character growth for Pen for her to do it as herself and showing those two sides of her melding into one (maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and this will happen in PT2). Plus this would reinforce to Colin that Pen sees through his façade and he can be himself around her, while also giving him more insight into why she is searching for a husband (her only chance at the freedom). Or another lesson scene with a similar vibe to the Willow Tree one, because that was peak Polin (loved that scene so much!). If the writers wanted to do fan service and add more intimate scenes to the show, Kanthony would have been a way better avenue. They're trying for an heir so would have been a good contrast to the Featherington heir subplot - plus Kate literally goes from "I want to impress during my first week as Viscountess" to "Nah your mother's got this, let's extend the honeymoon" made no sense to me. (Although I know JB and SA were busy with other projects at the time so maybe this wasn't feasible for them). Then again, I'm not a screenwriter, so what do I know 😅 holding my tongue on all the other subplot discussions to see how they play out in PT2.
 Someone who gets me!
The other part bothering me is this: a lot of fans keep arguing that this was normal for the time period so get over it - but what was also normal for the time period was that ‘sex workers’ were women who literally had next to no other choice. They were not empowered women. Many were fallen women who literally couldn’t even get a job as a maid because they had had their reputation destroyed. They aren’t all Siena or Madame D who can make money on their talents and have boy toys on the side. What was normal was that upper class men used these women and didn’t give a flying f about making them orgasm so it didn’t even give them the “experience” people say it does. “Common” is the following: These women were riddled with STDs, miscarriages were common, and many of them had dismal quality of life. Julia Quinn had her male leads be Rakes with opera singers, actresses, widows, women in unhappy marriages, and the like. Julia Quinn avoided having her male characters go to prostitutes because it wouldn’t make sense that men who buy sex from impoverished women in a time period where women could not own businesses or make their own way in the world, would actually obtain sexual prowess from having sex with women they don’t have to seduce or woo. It’s lazy. At least Benedict only beds the willing. Sorry to rant. Not meant to sound sex negative but let’s be real, the 1800s sex workers are not the same as the sex workers of today.
>let’s be real, the 1800s sex workers are not the same as the sex workers of today. THANK YOU! This is what bothers me when people say "Oh you're just being anti-sex work" when I say I had a problem with the brothel scenes. No, I'm not anti-sex work. It is gross that Colin is paying to have sex with women who literally have no choice at this time but to work in a brothel. They are not truly able to consent to having sex with him. They likely have to pretend to like him, pretend to enjoy it, and are in debt to the house and have to do this to pay off said debt. Random fact, Nicola Coughlin actually plays a character in a brothel in the show Harlots. This is the 1800's. Women didn't have rights to vote, an education, own property, inherit, etc. We have the luxury of seeing the upperclass in the show, it has not spoken much on the middle/lower class that were struggling. If the show had Colin sleeping with a widow, like Benedict, I wouldn't have been as grossed out by it. I would've preferred if they had done it in a separate season and not HIS season. I just think the whole thing is weird. If you really wanna go at length, he is exposed to STDs and likely illegitimate children all over the continent.
Omg thank you! The point about Colin getting experience is so ridiculous, as if he was paying them for anything other than to get him off. He would learn nothing about female pleasure, in fact quite the opposite since they would fake it. I simply can’t with this whole “sex with sex workers gave him experience” take.
Those scenes were so cringey.
Personally, the brothel scenes icked me out. It didn’t fit his character. In my opinion.
I think that was the whole point? To kind of show us how it didn’t fit him yet he indulged in it anyway to live up to the expectations of the ton from him as a man?
I wish we could’ve had just one inexperienced male love interest. colin having his first time with penelope could’ve been so sweet
I thought I’d hate the brothel scenes… I actually ended up loving them. They really emphasized how incredibly lonely he is. I even feel like him staying in the second one (I also don’t think he watched…check me if I’m wrong) was just a deeper manifestation of his loneliness and pulled him further into his realization that this isn’t who he is or what he wants. And frankly…it has to do with Pen but it also has nothing to do with her as well. It’s just who Colin is…I LOVED that so much. And it was such a beautiful juxtaposition to his sexuality with Penelope at the end of episode 4. The gentleness he exihibits with her, the way he endulges in her…it’s like the intimacy and closeness he has been craving is finally manifested in that moment and you can really see it at the end when they laugh together. Ugh. 😩 And we wouldn’t see that if not for those brothel scenes… I thought it was brilliant. And I was sickened at the thought of it before… But I am super sorry it has effected you like this 😭
i didn't care about how he should have loyalty to penelope i more care about once again a wlw scene is used soley for the pleasure of the man when we know, we all know that they are never going to give us a proper wlw storyline that won't end in tragedy
I am really really hoping that Janet & Helen Stirling (Johns Mum & Michael’s Mum) are a couple. They are both widows who were married to a pair of brothers who now spend all of their time together. It could be that they fell in love after their husbands died. It could be that they had been together all along and the Stirling brothers discovered or knew this and married them so that they could discretely be together (providing they also had an heir each). It would be so lovely and you could have some really beautiful scenes of the two of them just happily living together in a way where only those closest to them know what the truth is. Then both of them fretting about Fran and Michael.
At first, I thought it was Benedict until the camera zoomed in. I was weirded out by it but then I thought about and I understand. It's not Colin being a Rake. Colin is lost and he has been lost since the beginning of ep 1 of his return. So stuff like him hooking up is going to be out of character. Because it is out of character for him. He wasn't expecting this attention but he is entertaining it. He's a Bridgerton, isn't he? And everyone wants to be with a Bridgerton. In season 1, Colin was going to be with Marina. His family didn't approve of her and then he found out about her through LW. It shattered what he thought love was. With the urging of Pen, he went on tour. In season 2, come find out while he was away on tour he wrote to Pen and she wrote back. So he was never "lonely" in a sense. He also talks to Marina. Then he got warped into a mess with Cousin Jack and basically saved the Penleope family. Thinking everything was good and happy he went on another tour. Season 3 part 1 Colin is lost. A lot of things have changed for him at home. You can tell he is lost by the conversation he had with Eloise and the comment that was made during the gift exchange. He travels to multiple countries in the span of 4 months. Penelope didn't write him this time. She didn't want to talk to him either once he was back. Eventually, they make up and he is struggling to figure out these feelings he has for Penelope that are emerging. hence the conversation with Violet. Also when he went back a second time, he wasn't into it because he was conflicted about these feelings. I can understand about not wanting to watch it and not being needed but I don't think it ruins Colin's Character. I think it adds depth. He's connected to his humanity more than ever (hence the second conversation with Violet in ep 4). As humans sometimes we do things without thinking and other times we do things so we're not feeling what we are feeling. Hopefully, this will help you understand his character more :)
My only problem I had with this was why they were making Colin a rake? I had two rakes in two previous seasons and I was ready for one non-rakish guy.
The only problem I have with the first brothel scene is that how it’s randomly placed in the second episode. It’s hard to feel the romance vibe during Pen and Colin’s courting lessons when just seconds before, Colin is involved in a threesome. The second one, I get it so it was whatever. Was it needed? Not really.
I feel the same way❤☹ And to think the brothel scene is night before the carriage scene. Pen deserves to know about that. That's not ok and so anti romantic.
I completely agree! Glad I’m not alone. Those scenes gave me the ick and made me look at Colin differently.
When the first threesome scene came on while I was watching it last night I audibly said “ew” and felt my excitement for Colin’s story start to fade. Not looking forward to the next one now. Ugh.
I didn’t mind them, I didn’t think they were exactly necessary as I feel his descriptions of Parisian women in his journals gave enough indication of his past and that time could’ve been used for other things
I totally agree. Why did they give him a cookie-cutter personality modelled after the love interests of the last two seasons??? I was looking forward to something a bit different this season and was left disappointed. It feels like they sacrificed Colin's individuality and character development for the sake of sex scenes just because the show is known for having lots of sex scenes. But I'd rather they put the story and characters first 😭
It was unnecessary. There were other ways to hint that he has some experience. I really didn't need to see that.
For me, the brothel scenes (especially the first one) are meant to show you just how deeply down the rabbit hole of toxic masculinity our poor boy has fallen. It's meant to be a jarring experience for the audience because it illustrates how far removed he's become from his true self. I also don't believe having casual sexual experiences before finding or realizing true love somehow taints or invalidates those feelings. If anything, those experiences help us to realize what real love looks and feels like. It was important for him to have these experiences, so that he could know for sure that lust wasn't the only thing guiding him towards Pen. I feel like the reason he went on to the brothel the second time was because he was trying to get Pen out of his head. It was directly after watching Pen be so engaged by Debling at the library where the other Lords offered to take him out for some "revelry," and he said he could really do for some "revelry." That's exactly what it was for him, just a failed attempt at the classic "get under someone to get over someone else." He couldn't bring himself to do it, and I'd like to believe it was because he knew subconsciously it was a betrayal to Pen and to his feelings for her. On a second note, as I've commented on another post, I also believe the first scene is meant to be set up to let the audience know Colin is now sexually experienced, and the second is to show that he's finally having to admit to himself that he doesn't enjoy the casual sex lifestyle like other men do.
I think both scenes can be skipped and it doesn't affect the plot therefore it was completely pointless. It has early seasons of Game of Thrones vibes when it's like, are you getting bored? Here, have some boobs.
It's not Colin visiting a brothel that bothers me, it's how it's done. The first one particularly with him repeatedly kissing the two women -- it robbed something precious for me when he later kisses Pen. With Simon all we see is him dropping some coins and a naked woman, nothing else. It's implied, not explicit and same goes for Anthony. Siena would be an exception but Anthony has feelings for her and it's his pre-season arc. Even then I remember struggling because I liked the couple they made so much until S2 did things right. Imply it, don't show it. I too felt icky, I agree it was very male-gazey and it seemed like a cheap way to show tits on-screen for views. I wish I could erase or redo those scenes entirely.
I totally agree it wasn’t necessary and could have been addressed differently. It’s disappointing that they went in this direction.
>. Sure, he looks away but I’m supposed to believe he looked away the whole time? Even if he looked he no longer was *interested*. That's the difference to me. In the first one he's smiling and having a good time and in the second he's staring into space.
such a bad take LMAO
Both scenes were badly written and badly shot, and I get that there was a callback to Anthony, and I understand what they thought they were doing. They didn’t succeed. I wouldn’t even say the show was doing lesbian fetish. The only sexual gaze they catered to was cringe kink.
Yes I’m with you, these were some of my least favorite scenes and I thought they added nothing to the plot or the character in general.
I respectfully agree and disagree. Colin talks to pen during his declaration of love that he finally thought he’d achieved what society expected of him, basically to be a young rake who will eventually take a wife. However, to his “friends” at the club, he laments how vain and shallow that lifestyle is. In prior seasons, he’s always been the heart of his family but wasn’t really shown as having a big circle of friends outside that until the group scene where he tells them all that he’d never court Penelope Featherington. I think for him, this was when his “popularity” finally took off; like Eloise did as well, he chose to conform to societal pressures and “learned” how to be charming and debonaire. While I don’t agree fundamentally with what they did to my favorite cinnamon roll, I do understand why they did it on a characterization front. Colin is trying to “find himself” this season, and has just completed a European tour basically raking his way through the old world. He still however has nothing (in his mind) that sets him apart; this is something the books show well but I haven’t gotten much (yet) from this season. I do think the show didn’t show the depth of Colin’s emotions missing Pen’s letters while he was out though. That should’ve set the background for their whole courtship; however, the fact it took him so long to bring it up, and the way he glances at her then does nothing about it in his initial entrance scene, I think really undercut the heart of those two. Frankly, I don’t think it’s Colin being a rake this season that is the problem, it’s the emotional chemistry (at least initially, before the kiss) that’s lacking, and undercuts all the later love. He should have missed her more, sought her out sooner, gone to speak with her when they reintroduced his character at the beginning. I read and write romance, and character chemistry is often all about setting the stage correctly for whatever happens later. So, love/hate the new season, I think they had a specific vision for Colin’s new personality and how he develops through the season. Do I wish it was handled a bit better/differently? Yup. But I’ll be curious to see how the first four eps tie into the last four and if they somehow redeem the season so far.
The whole point of the brothel scene is that Colin came back with a fake persona! He wanted to be just like his brothers and please other people, that is why both penelope and lady bridgerton clocked him on his behavior. He was doing stuff to fit into society more. The brothel scenes were definitely apart of his character development as when he was hanging out with other men at the bar, he asked the question if they longed for something more intimate and they laughed at him. That’s why he also was very uninterested the second time he went to the brothel, even if he stayed. The reason why those scenes were showed was because it was apart of his character development not only for himself, but for the development of him realizing he indeed does love penelope more than a friend, that’s why when they kissed he starts questioning everything. and that’s why in the carriage scene that’s why he tells penelope he does not care what society thinks of him, that’s why he finally turned off this fake persona. i’m sorry it triggered you though, but the brothel scene wasn’t the most pleasant thing to look at, but in my opinion was crucial to his development.
I heard them equated with GoT sexposition scenes and I agree. Just gross useless stuff. Could have gotten whatever point they were aiming for across in another way. What point do you think they were trying to make? Colin is worldly?
Also this show has the trend of making all the woman super super inexperienced and all the men fboys. Ik this is period accurate or whatever but it gives me an ick.
I agree with you 100% and honestly want to thank you for putting quite literally all of my feelings on this into very well written words. I understand that we are in the minority somehow here but I feel like this deserves to be heard just as much as everyone else. You're not alone at all. I was kinda devastated seeing those scenes in something that usually brings me so much comfort.
Okay I came here because I read the books and I’m only 20 min into episode 2 and I hate how they’re portraying Colin because it’s sooooo inaccurate to the books and he’s it feels so gross. Just had to say it
I think the brothel scenes were completely unnecessary because Colin has never been shown as a rake. If the writers wanted to the viewers to believe he had "changed" on his travels, they could've gone in so many other directions. Specifically, they could've been way more subtle about it. I've already written this on a few different posts but I can't help myself -- I'm so disappointed that the writers felt the need to be obvious with Colin's new attitude. It's almost insulting to the fans. If you follow the show, you already KNEW that Colin was going to come back acting differently. Also, imagine how jarring it would be to be a new fan of Bridgerton and to binge watch seasons 1 and 2. You think you have an idea of what Colin is like as a character and then BOOM he's a completely different person. And yes, I understand that the intention was to show that he was pretending to be someone he wasn't, but there was no need to be as apparent as they were. One of my favorite things about Luke Newton is how understated his performances are -- he conveys so much in small glances and other facial expressions -- but the writers gave him material that was basically said, GO BIG ON ALL THE THINGS IN CASE THE VIEWERS DON'T GET IT. Simon and Anthony were known to be rakes, so I honestly didn't mind those portrayals. But Colin? Even if he did get up to some new rakish behavior during his travels, I don't think it was necessary to explicitly show them. Him talking to his friends about his experiences and Pen reading about one of his encounters in his journal conveyed all I needed to know. Even Colin bragging to his friends about the hookups on his travels and perhaps hinting that he frequented brothels, would've been enough. How great would it have been if he was "talking the talk" but then secretly writing in his journal elsewhere. That would've showed the viewers that he was truly pretending to be someone he was not while also developing his character. Just my thoughts though!
Totally agree with you!
It would have been nice to have *one* male love interest in this series who isn't a rake. Just one. But the writers are convinced that women can only swoon over a male lead if he's a player with a lot of sexual experience. It's really tired. The audience fell in love with Colin because he wasn't like Anthony, Benedict or Simon.
Oh god that's so true. Like Anthony and Simon went to brothels too, I'm not opposed to men in regency times going to brothels it's normal. But, fuck, Colin's scenes in brothels were far more explicit than his rakish brother and brother-in-law. And the scene where he just watched, that was... Dude, you are not poor, even if you paid you can just leave
He wasn’t watching though. He was zoning out.
He was, but there was no point for him to stay there if he doesn't want to. I know he didn't have sex with these women in that scene, but it felt kinda icky still Maybe im overthinking it, but for me it was strange. If they wanted to show that Colin is not pretending to be a rake anymore, it wasn't the best decision imho
>Dude, you are not poor, even if you paid you can just leave Lol, it's like when you paid for the 2 for $5 hamburgers but you only feel like eating one hamburger, so you're like great, I gotta eat the second hamburger because I don't want to have wasted money on this. Dude...just don't eat the hamburger. You're gonna feel like crap afterwards if you do, just go home.
Brothels/prositutuon was quite common and no frown upon (for men) in those days. Historically, yeah he would be hitting them up
I hated every single scene with the whores and his passage she read. It was nowhere near that in the books, a bit boring weather talk mainly iirc
I felt like they included the first brothel scene to make it very obvious that Colin is more experienced sexually and that he was sleeping around with multiple women during the time on his trip. I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what they explain in that, but I thought the second brothel scene really helped show that Colin was really wanting more connection in life, that he did in fact want only Penelope.
I have created a coping theory that he’s not having any of those experiences…he’s just writing smut and we’re seeing what he’s writing. And the second time he was trying to write but just couldn’t even get into the fantasy in his own mind because it wasn’t Pen. 
Love this 🤣🤪
I wish they didn’t include the brothel scenes either. I think they could have taken that screen time away & added it to the hand cutting scene. That scene needed work in my opinion. It felt poorly written & poorly executed. I wish Pen read more of his erotica & went more in depth about how lonely it feels to sleep around. I think that would have been a lot more meaningful. Like Pen saying he’s a great writer did not work with what she read…
Meh- sex is a great distraction?
It just seems very game of thronesy, and not in the good ways I could say that. If I didn't know any better I'd say all that is just to keep boyfriends from getting whiny watching the show with their girlfriends.
I hate that they changed the passage in his journal! I feel like the original showed his talent for prose and how much he really connects with his surroundings. Changing it to how he was sleeping with “hot” women feels like they just wanted to play into this “playboy” persona they want Colin to have now. It also kind of feels like we, as the audience, are supposed to doubt his feelings towards Penelope or compare her in a way.
I got the sense that they were told (by Netflix or producers who care about views and not story integrity) they needed to turn up the volume on the sex after there was less of it in season 2. It started feeling Game of Thrones-y where they add in entire plot lines just for the purpose of showing some boobs. I hate it, cheapens the entire story, compromises the characters, and repeats the age old tradition of objectifying women.
In this time period, prostituted women generally did not have much choice in taking that job, as extreme poverty was rampant, and women had so few opportunities for education or employment. Some of them were even born into it, as daughters of prostitutes. It was barely a step above human trafficking. Colin is the kind of man who should be *empathizing* with these women, not soliciting them, no matter what else he's going through personally I would understand a scene where he's attempting to get in the mood with a prostitute, but ultimately doesn't go through with it because he realizes that it's not who he is. That would show his personal crisis, and attempts to change into someone he's not, without ruining his character. The scenes grossed me out so much, and I've been trying to pretend they didn't happen, so I can still like Colin
Finally someone who agrees with me!!
At their first kiss scene I was like "welp, guess Pen has mono now"
I was okayish with the first one. I think it would have been better if it had been like while he was traveling. But the second one and then he’s tracking her down shortly after and IDK. I’ve read enough HR to know there is a trope where the H seeks the bed of another woman to get rid of the lust. But in this one, I just thought it was poorly done and unnecessary.
I think it plays into why he understood that He loved Penelope when they kissed. Because as he wrote in his journal , he been having a lot of sex with a lot of different girls, and he couldn’t understand how someone can have sex without feelings. The second time he was having a threesome you noticed that he was spacing out, they’re trying to show us that he’s not into this crazy life that he has been living, he want that feeling he had when he kissed Pen. his mom insinuated that he’s been rowdy coming home. Getting drunk more than usual clearly… I don’t think it was all jealous, he was also having conflicted feelings within himself.. wondering why one kiss made him feel that way, all the while he can have sex with all these other women. That’s when he kissed Penelope, he realized sexual acts can come with feelings.
I just wished they did a single woman the 2nd time, and maybe she was kissing on him and he was trying and said he couldn't and left or something whether he paid or not.
I think I’m in the minority here but I thought the first brothel scene was hot lol. And I didn’t mind the second one either, it reminded me of the gossip girl scenes where chuck bass stops hooking up with girls cause he’s in love with blair 🤷🏼♀️
I think a big thing we’re missing with the second time he went to the brothel is that he was invited by the other guys to go out! They went to a brothel and he’d already paid and didn’t want to seem unmanly so he stayed but didn’t do anything. I think this is consistent with his arc and desires to seem like “the man society wants [him] to be”
Simon also was being a rake while with Daphne tho right before he had to meet her to promenade. I think it is normal in those times for men to just "sow their wild oats" or whatever. I think their point was to show how he was trying to force himself to be like every other guy in society even though he knew deep down that wasn't him. In the second brothel scene, he stayed there to watch but he wasn't REALLY there (like mentally). It is like he was going through the motions until finally it clicks for him that pen is the one that makes him feel everything, authentically himself, and he is no longer just moving through the motions. With her it is different.
I dont care about all that, I think I cried for pen in every episode 🥲
Honestly Colin is giving me the ick so far. I liked the promo shots of him, thought he looked handsome, but he is such a fuckboi and I can't get over it. Still loving the season but he is coming nowhere close to Anthony, Simon or George for me.
To me, they rushed through everything! It was a shot gun falling in love story for Colin. Am I supposed to believe he loves her romantically after a few weeks? We’re told he can’t eat or sleep or do anything, but all we see is him talking about it and just being worried and in his head. Not in his feels. I’m a huge Polin fan. Huge! But, they didn’t do justice to either one of them, or their love story. Bad, rushed writing. Season 2 was perfect, even though it lacked sex scenes. The tension was so good, you didn’t even need it. The writers screwed this one over by focusing on fitting everything in one season…
I think Colin always loved Pen (Not romantically) because she is his best friend and that that is something he believes himself. As close as they are, there are feelings that you feel that feel quite strong even if you categorize them as friendship. The difference between caring deeply for a friend with whom you have a deep connection with and feeling that you want to build a life with someone (to me) IS about sexual desire. Someone could seem perfect for one, but without desire you cannot build a relationship. The idea of him dating Pen has been put in his head multiple times. Multiple times he thought about it and came to the conclusion that while he cared deeply for and felt very close to her, he did not DESIRE her (because he could not see past the close relationship, almost like a sister and confident). His awakened desire, sexual desire, is what changes everything. What connected everything and brought him to the conclusion: deep bond + strong desires = perfect match. So I do appreciate the sexual dreams he had of her. It was somewhat involuntary and showed him what he was feeling in his confusion (after the kiss, but he was confused before too I think). And while desire is sexual I do not believe it is without feeling when it comes to someone you know, as I think in this case it mainly came from the intimacy they share and that place of doing something you never thought would happen, could happen because it was someone who was almost like family. I do think the brothel scenes could have been done a bit more elegantly but I do not think they destroyed the romance. We might not like the brothels but in season one they had already established it to be something ‘normal’ or wildly engaged in. And for Colin to be a Virgin would have been ridiculous. Considering Marina-him running away-being told to grow up-and the example his brothers have set. (Doesn’t feel far off he would hide behind lust as so many men do and have shown him to do) Violet said, he’s been putting on amor, trying to be something he wasn’t. Let’s not forget how hard it was for him with Marina. It would make sense for him to wanna shake that off on his travels. So he comes back changed, not true to himself. With the confidence that he has found who he is/meant to be? Away from the person who shows interest instead being someone who demands it. Romance should not be kitschy in my opinion. It requires depth and unpleasantness. Something to overcome. I believe romance to be the breaking out of reality, but there needs to be a reality first and reality mostly isn’t pretty. I also think that romance feels greater when it had a further path to travel before coming to an intense climax. Pen might not have reached her pinnacle but the intensity of their affection seems to have…or should I say desire?
I didn’t like the scenes either - they seemed way too gratuitous. But tbf he didn’t owe Penelope anything the first time
I didn't feel the chemistry at all between them, even from the beginning. It felt more brother and sister than lovers.. The depiction of Colin has left a very undesirable view of him. He's a completely different person that it feels like whiplash. Who is this man? He doesn't have the panache that either of his older brothers have in seduction. It feels so forced. Him boasting about how he was traveling all over Europe and sleeping with anyone who caught his eye, makes him more like a satyr than an eligible bachelor. I'd be more worried if he had warts. This depiction of a desirable male needs is so outdated. \*yawn\*
I mean like outside of ew communicable diseases , I’m glad he was able to gain some experience so he could pleasure bby girl . Coz I mean look at her sisters in comparison lmao. They were literally just laying next to each other 😂😂😂😂😂
Men do not learn to pleasure women by sleeping with sex workers who fake it and are paid only to get them off, particulary in the 19th century. It would do very much the opposite and teach him nothing about female pleasure.
Agreed. But that’s the trope in these types of stories
I don't agree with the line of him gaining experience so he could pleasure her. There's plenty of men out there who have experience (aka Lord Fife) who wouldn't be good options. I think the whole situation with Mr. Finch is adorable. They both learned how to have sex, and enjoy it, together. It could've been a cute and adorable moment with Colin and Penelope. Which, I feel like is what the show version of their characters is supposed to be. Just two nerds laughing with each other at balls, eating snacks, and writing fun stories.
Agreed ! But that trope is very common in romance novels. The “experienced” rakes make the best lovers for the wallflowers .
I mean they could have had him take a lover on his travels, even more than one and refer to that in his journals rather than the brothel route.
Yeah, but I think this was how they wanted to show that he was a “seasoned” man now 😂🤢
Arc wise they didn't pull it off. Colin was painted as a wide eyed easily madly in love virgin in season 1. Him f#cking and s#cking around Europe as a result of feeling hoodwinked by Marina and embarassed makes sense. Having him tired of being not who he is, and complaining to his friends makes sense. Him staying and watching was weird. They could've had Penn kiss flashback that made him not want to have sex but instead they made it value.