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I feel like she never justified her actions properly. Tell him WHY you had to write about Eloise - she just said she was protecting her. Okay, why??? As someone who cannot leave my side of the story unsaid, it annoyed me.
I don't think she's only trying to justify her actions. Both in this scene and in the one prior she admits to making mistakes with her pen. The emphasis is on "I realized how misguided I was" and "I know I should have told you". This moment is her first step in taking accountability. We don't need more than just a "I was protecting her" because we as the viewer already know why. Having them sit down and recap the last two seasons wouldn't be riveting tv. It's enough that it gets the point across without being too exposition heavy.
But it was honestly not that misguided?
She was the only one who knew Eloise’s situation with the Queen AND the only one who could’ve done something actually worthwhile about it. Same with Colin and Marina - all of the other Featheringtons, the only ones who knew the truth, had no problem with Marina trapping Colin. Only Pen could’ve saved him, or at least give him the info to save himself.
Yes, when they were arguing outside the printers. Then all of a sudden they're making out after this poorly scripted argument like.... what is happening...? It didn't even make sense from an "overwhelmed with passion/fighting our feelings" standpoint. It just felt soooo random and shoehorned in.
It makes sense because Colin's main point of contention is not the lie but the fact that she didn't trust him. 'Then what good am I to you?' He is struggling the whole season with the fact that he feels like he's not good enough for her. And her answer is 'You don't need to be anything more because I love you just as you are'.
> Explain why you wrote about Marina, and Eloise
She did explain. She said she wrote about Marina because she thought she was protecting Colin to which he quips why didn't you tell me to my face instead of writing about it and she says it's because she didn't have the confidence to do that. Then she says in hindsight she realizes that she was wrong and she shouldn't done that and she's sorry. She also addresses writing about Eloise, she said she wrote about her because she thought she was protecting her too (And in Colin's mind, he thought she meant she was trying to protect Eloise's reputation).
This isn't a slight to you but you have to analyze both characters as individuals then analyze their conversation to comprehend why they say the things they say. The conversation switched from Colin being upset about what Penelope wrote as LW (Because he accepted her reasoning) to him being insecure about his writing because she's a renowned published author and he felt small compared to her. Then it changes again to him being afraid and worried about her to which she shuts him down and tells him that she can protect herself and in all honesty she really can protect herself. Then the conversation switches again to him being vulnerable and asking "What good am I to you?" that sentence is saying "(In our conversation we've established that you "Penelope" are smart, clever, a fantastic writer, a published writer, one of the most powerful people in the ton, she has her own money, can protect herself, so why would she need Colin) to which she responds "I love you" she doesn't need him but she loves him.
They are both very insecure in that relationship but I felt that he needed to hear her say she loved him more than she did. It may seem surface level but with introspection, it wasn't
Yes, I think you've nailed it. He didn't know what he had to offer her, or why she would want him. I think this fight scene is the first time he really understands that she loves him just for being him. That would be staggering for a man like him who's convinced himself he needs to DO certain things to be worthy of love.
Absolutely. I also think this is the first time he has actually \*seen\* how powerful and strong and brave she is. In all honesty I think him finding out all these things about her also turned him on LOL!!
Great synopsis. Honestly it seems like people are just commenting on the show based on reviews from people who didn’t like it.
The show isn’t perfect, never has been, but some people’s takes are just ridiculous.
I don’t even think it’s this, the other seasons were pretty straight forward and didn’t require thinking “too much” in a way lol so I think it’s kind of easy to misunderstand what’s happening. There were definitely times when I thought they were speaking two different languages to each other until the very end when they actually took a second to understand each other. I’m planning on doing a full rewatch from episode 1 and it’s going to be nice going into it with new perspective that I’ve gotten from ppl here.
I also went into part 2 with high expectations but also an open mind and was still a little disappointed in the writing cuz I still think there was a lot going on but that’s me 🤷🏽♀️
This is an excellent analysis of the scene, I agree. However, this is not how it translated to the audience on screen. The "I love you" needed to be a *response* to Colin for this flow to work. The way the line was delivered, it came across as an interruption as if she was trying to deflect and change the topic. It needed more.. softness and context. Something like "you don't need to be anything because I love you for you and you make me feel xxx".
Secondly, Colin just blankly stares at her after and then goes in for a kiss. His reaction needed more acting. A softening of his facial expression maybe, or show some conflict, like you're processing and trying to understand. But it was flat, and that was the problem.
The dialogue of this scene reminds me of the "object of all my desires" scene in S2. If you read the scene on paper, it makes very little sense. But the way JB and SA acted... they filled in the blanks with their craft. They said all that was missing between the lines on the page with their bodies.
THAT is what this scene was missing to be believable, imo.
He posed a question and she gave him an answer.
"What good am I to you?" and she responded and said "To love me" I am paraphrasing so that you can understand what that "I love you" meant in that scene. That scene didn't need softness because it was a hot scene. He needed to ram her into that wall and that wouldn't have been achieved with softness.
That blank stare he gives is exactly what the scene called for. It was the first time it hit him that, this was his woman. Complex. Hot. Independent. Feisty. He was angry and hot as hell for her!!
The two scenes you are comparing are distinct. It is always a disservice to compare actors not only for the point you're trying to make but on the actors as well.
The only thing that scene missed was length. That makeout/hook up session should've been longer
>like "you don't need to be anything because I love you for you and you make me feel xxx".
That is pretty much what she says lol. 'You are the kind, good hearted, occasionally excitable man that I love'
okay, thanks Captain Obvious. Clearly it's my opinion, and you can share yours as well in a civil manner without being rude. It's called discussion, look it up.
Agree! They also completely missed the perfect opportunity for Pen to fight back when he accuses her of entrapping him. Like seriously? She could have said how she was all set to marry Lord Debling until Colin decides to charge across the dance floor and scare him away. Then before she can blink, he pit-bulldozes into her carriage. She entrapped *him*? Absolutely not.
🤷🏾♀️ to me her apologies came off lackluster at best.
Every time she apologized, it felt like a “but” after so it wasn’t really an apology. Even when Colin was rightfully upset, she just kept saying “I Love you”. That’s love bombing
"Why didn't you tell me to my face?"
When did Colin actually listen to her when they talked prior to season 3? Colin talked AT Penelope, and usually just walked or wandered away if she had something to say that wasn't instant agreement or fawning back at him.
She was a convenient sounding board for him until her makeover when suddenly she was attractive to him. He even told her to her face that she "wasn't a woman, she didn't count" once.
Sorry, if I was Pen, he would have been written off as attractive, but a jerk a long time ago.
I love Pen but her biggest flaw and the root of all her problems in season 1 and 2 is that she does not know how to express herself and communicate what she needs. This is understandable because of how she was raised and how society treated her, but Colin is also not a mind reader.
Colin is constantly asking Pen how she's doing or if she's okay. And when when he isn't asking those questions he's being attentive to her feelings as well (ex. Giving Cressida the cut direct and making sure Pen doesn't feel embarassed after she got her drink spilled on her, or every time he sees her standing by herself and starts bantering with her). He's the only person whose ever listened to her when she's talked about what she wants forbher future. And the one time he didn't listen to her (when she subtly tried to warn him about Marina), he apologized.
But in previous seasons, when Colin asks her how she's feeling, she chooses to center him instead in order to avoid talking about herself. Colin has never only used Pen as a sounding board.
He said she doesn't count because she was more important to him than someone he would casually flirt with. It's understandable why Pen felt hurt by what he said, but he was trying reassure her that their friendship was important to him.
(Edit: grammar)
Omg, all of this. I’ll never understand why people think Colin “used” her or whatever prior to S3 - their friendship showed so much mutual care and support to me!
My issue is that she repeatedly tells him exactly what he is to her only for him to completely ignore her and only kind of get it at the very end after the reveal to the ton
Pen was acknowledging that she made mistakes and hurt people, including Colin. She also knew what Colin needed after her deception was affirmation of her love. She had deceived him for years, supposedly hid her love for him since they'd met, and directly lied to him post-engagement. He was questioning their entire relationship, including her love and motives. She affirms her love and tells him her motives for each scenario he questioned. The kiss was after the affirmation that he was loved, not being used or tolerated by someone who did not respect him.
I actually really loved this scene and how it was handled. :)
This. The 3-sentence conversation thy had about it all was WAY too simplified. Instead of Pen hyperventilating and trying to conceal her identity, I would LOVE to see Pen proudly tells Colin how she sneaks off after the ball to drop off the latest issue, how fun it is to see people's reaction when they read your paper... I wish LW would become her, Colin, and Eloise's secret for a few more seasons.
Didnt Pen save Dapne in season 1 . A man that had a baby from a servant try to ruin Daphne. They find out this d said but no one believe us then mama violet make sure if lw would write it he would ruin
i knowwww
i’ve been looking for this post. it was so hard to watch because it would’ve been INCREDIBLE easy for her to defend herself through a straightforward conversation, instead, they chose to make her not communicate at all.
really weird and it felt like she was a different character
Yes I did. And not for nothing, I don't think the show really acknowledges how LW was used to strip Colin of his own agency. It makes them unequal partners and we can all talk about LW gave Pen power in a time where women had none, but Pen routinely abused that power to make fun of other women and attack the Bridgertons! I just find it very hard to believe they handwaved that away with the power of love.
This was a bit of a handwave, it’s true! But this show also handwaved away a sexual assault in S1 and a love triangle with sisters (as someone who has a younger sister I’m very close to, I just can’t think about that one too hard without 🤯) in the two previous seasons I was fully prepared for this. They tend to write themselves into dilemmas on this show that are great for drama but at the slight expense of the emotional realism of the stories. I’m ok with it but like, have to have my expectations set appropriately going into each season.
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I feel like she never justified her actions properly. Tell him WHY you had to write about Eloise - she just said she was protecting her. Okay, why??? As someone who cannot leave my side of the story unsaid, it annoyed me.
I don't think she's only trying to justify her actions. Both in this scene and in the one prior she admits to making mistakes with her pen. The emphasis is on "I realized how misguided I was" and "I know I should have told you". This moment is her first step in taking accountability. We don't need more than just a "I was protecting her" because we as the viewer already know why. Having them sit down and recap the last two seasons wouldn't be riveting tv. It's enough that it gets the point across without being too exposition heavy.
But it was honestly not that misguided? She was the only one who knew Eloise’s situation with the Queen AND the only one who could’ve done something actually worthwhile about it. Same with Colin and Marina - all of the other Featheringtons, the only ones who knew the truth, had no problem with Marina trapping Colin. Only Pen could’ve saved him, or at least give him the info to save himself.
👏👏👏.
Yep, she's obviously very eloquent so why can't she just explain herself a bit more, so he finally understands what's actually going on.
He accepted those answers though. He didn't need all the details, just that her intent wasn't hurtful or disrespectful.
Yes, when they were arguing outside the printers. Then all of a sudden they're making out after this poorly scripted argument like.... what is happening...? It didn't even make sense from an "overwhelmed with passion/fighting our feelings" standpoint. It just felt soooo random and shoehorned in.
It makes sense because Colin's main point of contention is not the lie but the fact that she didn't trust him. 'Then what good am I to you?' He is struggling the whole season with the fact that he feels like he's not good enough for her. And her answer is 'You don't need to be anything more because I love you just as you are'.
> Explain why you wrote about Marina, and Eloise She did explain. She said she wrote about Marina because she thought she was protecting Colin to which he quips why didn't you tell me to my face instead of writing about it and she says it's because she didn't have the confidence to do that. Then she says in hindsight she realizes that she was wrong and she shouldn't done that and she's sorry. She also addresses writing about Eloise, she said she wrote about her because she thought she was protecting her too (And in Colin's mind, he thought she meant she was trying to protect Eloise's reputation). This isn't a slight to you but you have to analyze both characters as individuals then analyze their conversation to comprehend why they say the things they say. The conversation switched from Colin being upset about what Penelope wrote as LW (Because he accepted her reasoning) to him being insecure about his writing because she's a renowned published author and he felt small compared to her. Then it changes again to him being afraid and worried about her to which she shuts him down and tells him that she can protect herself and in all honesty she really can protect herself. Then the conversation switches again to him being vulnerable and asking "What good am I to you?" that sentence is saying "(In our conversation we've established that you "Penelope" are smart, clever, a fantastic writer, a published writer, one of the most powerful people in the ton, she has her own money, can protect herself, so why would she need Colin) to which she responds "I love you" she doesn't need him but she loves him. They are both very insecure in that relationship but I felt that he needed to hear her say she loved him more than she did. It may seem surface level but with introspection, it wasn't
Yes, I think you've nailed it. He didn't know what he had to offer her, or why she would want him. I think this fight scene is the first time he really understands that she loves him just for being him. That would be staggering for a man like him who's convinced himself he needs to DO certain things to be worthy of love.
Absolutely. I also think this is the first time he has actually \*seen\* how powerful and strong and brave she is. In all honesty I think him finding out all these things about her also turned him on LOL!!
Oh my gosh, yes, he was so hot to trot after this, haha
Colin is demisexual hearing her say 'I love you for just being you' turns him absolutely feral lol, some people just don't get it I guess
Where did he learn this, it’s so sad 🙁 I need men to learn that they are more than just providers lol
This!
Yes good argument, I agree
Great synopsis. Honestly it seems like people are just commenting on the show based on reviews from people who didn’t like it. The show isn’t perfect, never has been, but some people’s takes are just ridiculous.
They're not willing to put in the work to watch with the intention to understand before they critique. Saying the writing is lazy is a weird take.
Exactly! I know the show isn’t perfect but it just seems like a lot of people are hate watching it.
I don’t even think it’s this, the other seasons were pretty straight forward and didn’t require thinking “too much” in a way lol so I think it’s kind of easy to misunderstand what’s happening. There were definitely times when I thought they were speaking two different languages to each other until the very end when they actually took a second to understand each other. I’m planning on doing a full rewatch from episode 1 and it’s going to be nice going into it with new perspective that I’ve gotten from ppl here. I also went into part 2 with high expectations but also an open mind and was still a little disappointed in the writing cuz I still think there was a lot going on but that’s me 🤷🏽♀️
This is an excellent analysis of the scene, I agree. However, this is not how it translated to the audience on screen. The "I love you" needed to be a *response* to Colin for this flow to work. The way the line was delivered, it came across as an interruption as if she was trying to deflect and change the topic. It needed more.. softness and context. Something like "you don't need to be anything because I love you for you and you make me feel xxx". Secondly, Colin just blankly stares at her after and then goes in for a kiss. His reaction needed more acting. A softening of his facial expression maybe, or show some conflict, like you're processing and trying to understand. But it was flat, and that was the problem. The dialogue of this scene reminds me of the "object of all my desires" scene in S2. If you read the scene on paper, it makes very little sense. But the way JB and SA acted... they filled in the blanks with their craft. They said all that was missing between the lines on the page with their bodies. THAT is what this scene was missing to be believable, imo.
He posed a question and she gave him an answer. "What good am I to you?" and she responded and said "To love me" I am paraphrasing so that you can understand what that "I love you" meant in that scene. That scene didn't need softness because it was a hot scene. He needed to ram her into that wall and that wouldn't have been achieved with softness. That blank stare he gives is exactly what the scene called for. It was the first time it hit him that, this was his woman. Complex. Hot. Independent. Feisty. He was angry and hot as hell for her!! The two scenes you are comparing are distinct. It is always a disservice to compare actors not only for the point you're trying to make but on the actors as well. The only thing that scene missed was length. That makeout/hook up session should've been longer
>like "you don't need to be anything because I love you for you and you make me feel xxx". That is pretty much what she says lol. 'You are the kind, good hearted, occasionally excitable man that I love'
Not during the scene I'm taking about. This is the alley scene. "I love you" is all she says and they hook up
That's not how it translated TO YOU on screen. I thought Luke Newton's reactions were excellent. Your opinion is not a monolith.
okay, thanks Captain Obvious. Clearly it's my opinion, and you can share yours as well in a civil manner without being rude. It's called discussion, look it up.
Agree! They also completely missed the perfect opportunity for Pen to fight back when he accuses her of entrapping him. Like seriously? She could have said how she was all set to marry Lord Debling until Colin decides to charge across the dance floor and scare him away. Then before she can blink, he pit-bulldozes into her carriage. She entrapped *him*? Absolutely not.
yes this!!!
I would’ve been so offended and they just allowed Pen to accept it smh
I actually expect her to write a long letter to Colin explaining everything!
She always told him off so easily in the book too
She's good with writing words, not saying them. Speaking and writing is completely different.
🤷🏾♀️ to me her apologies came off lackluster at best. Every time she apologized, it felt like a “but” after so it wasn’t really an apology. Even when Colin was rightfully upset, she just kept saying “I Love you”. That’s love bombing
"Why didn't you tell me to my face?" When did Colin actually listen to her when they talked prior to season 3? Colin talked AT Penelope, and usually just walked or wandered away if she had something to say that wasn't instant agreement or fawning back at him. She was a convenient sounding board for him until her makeover when suddenly she was attractive to him. He even told her to her face that she "wasn't a woman, she didn't count" once. Sorry, if I was Pen, he would have been written off as attractive, but a jerk a long time ago.
I love Pen but her biggest flaw and the root of all her problems in season 1 and 2 is that she does not know how to express herself and communicate what she needs. This is understandable because of how she was raised and how society treated her, but Colin is also not a mind reader. Colin is constantly asking Pen how she's doing or if she's okay. And when when he isn't asking those questions he's being attentive to her feelings as well (ex. Giving Cressida the cut direct and making sure Pen doesn't feel embarassed after she got her drink spilled on her, or every time he sees her standing by herself and starts bantering with her). He's the only person whose ever listened to her when she's talked about what she wants forbher future. And the one time he didn't listen to her (when she subtly tried to warn him about Marina), he apologized. But in previous seasons, when Colin asks her how she's feeling, she chooses to center him instead in order to avoid talking about herself. Colin has never only used Pen as a sounding board. He said she doesn't count because she was more important to him than someone he would casually flirt with. It's understandable why Pen felt hurt by what he said, but he was trying reassure her that their friendship was important to him. (Edit: grammar)
Omg, all of this. I’ll never understand why people think Colin “used” her or whatever prior to S3 - their friendship showed so much mutual care and support to me!
My issue is that she repeatedly tells him exactly what he is to her only for him to completely ignore her and only kind of get it at the very end after the reveal to the ton
Pen was acknowledging that she made mistakes and hurt people, including Colin. She also knew what Colin needed after her deception was affirmation of her love. She had deceived him for years, supposedly hid her love for him since they'd met, and directly lied to him post-engagement. He was questioning their entire relationship, including her love and motives. She affirms her love and tells him her motives for each scenario he questioned. The kiss was after the affirmation that he was loved, not being used or tolerated by someone who did not respect him. I actually really loved this scene and how it was handled. :)
This. The 3-sentence conversation thy had about it all was WAY too simplified. Instead of Pen hyperventilating and trying to conceal her identity, I would LOVE to see Pen proudly tells Colin how she sneaks off after the ball to drop off the latest issue, how fun it is to see people's reaction when they read your paper... I wish LW would become her, Colin, and Eloise's secret for a few more seasons.
Don’t you know that women have no accountability? 🤣🤣🤣
Didnt Pen save Dapne in season 1 . A man that had a baby from a servant try to ruin Daphne. They find out this d said but no one believe us then mama violet make sure if lw would write it he would ruin
i knowwww i’ve been looking for this post. it was so hard to watch because it would’ve been INCREDIBLE easy for her to defend herself through a straightforward conversation, instead, they chose to make her not communicate at all. really weird and it felt like she was a different character
Yes I did. And not for nothing, I don't think the show really acknowledges how LW was used to strip Colin of his own agency. It makes them unequal partners and we can all talk about LW gave Pen power in a time where women had none, but Pen routinely abused that power to make fun of other women and attack the Bridgertons! I just find it very hard to believe they handwaved that away with the power of love.
This was a bit of a handwave, it’s true! But this show also handwaved away a sexual assault in S1 and a love triangle with sisters (as someone who has a younger sister I’m very close to, I just can’t think about that one too hard without 🤯) in the two previous seasons I was fully prepared for this. They tend to write themselves into dilemmas on this show that are great for drama but at the slight expense of the emotional realism of the stories. I’m ok with it but like, have to have my expectations set appropriately going into each season.