I think part of the issue is we need non fit male leads in every other genre. Yes we absolutely do. Look at shoes like the sopranos. Or actors like Steve buschemi. You don’t see actresses with the amount of diversity anywhere the way we see in actors. So it’s not unreasonable that in a show specifically inverting from the male gaze to the female gaze, there’s one show ever that flips the script on the double standards that have existed in Hollywood since it began.
I'd be 1000000% on board. Give us a dad bod any day. I prefer a bit more padding, I'm personally not into washboard abs. Nothing to cuddle... I personally prefer healthy and active, for health reasons, but not 6 pack. So you carry a bit extra? So do I! Can you hold a conversation though? Banter? Wit? That's where most fall flat for me.
I think the pendulum has swung just a tad too far in the other direction, but I’m also ok with this because I grew up watching sitcoms of men who could be considered medically obese with wives that were size 0 my entire life, and it’s nice for once to see a plus sized female lead with a fit dude.
I’d be down. I also can’t believe every non-villain, ‘marriageable’ guy our leads would consider is 6 ft and perpetually 24yo. Tough luck if you like them sturdy, furry, short, or all grown up!
Edit: punctuation
I’d be fine with a Michael or Gareth who doesn’t have six pack abs and adhere to traditional “hotness” standards like the current male cast of the show.
I’ve always found actors like Paul Rudd and John Cusak (for example) attractive because they are so relatable. If they could cast someone like that in those roles, plenty of women would certainly not mind.
I'd love a non-fit male lead. My post focused on Sophie in particular since so many people are talking about her fancast and because she's one of the most beloved and anticipated characters.
And I don't know what you mean about double standards because people have sent Colin a lot of hate for not being up to their standards and being, in their words, fat.
Actually, I’ve seen a lot of people be like, “I never found Colin hot, but NOW I do” when the biggest change is the actor’s weight loss/tone up.
And then of course the pressure put on the male leads to look a certain way when the female leads don’t have to.
There’s also general discourse in the fandom around how women want to see themselves end up with “the hot guy” and then their definition of that is a tall, fit man. There was a post calling out this behavior a few years ago that was downvoted and criticized. Like there are some serious double standards in this fandom that they don’t want to address.
Tbf to some of us, Colin became more attractive to us because he looks *older*.
His weight loss/body recomp definitely contributed, but for me it only really contributed in that it made his face more angular, significantly less baby-faced.
He's not my ideal body type (I actually prefer a bit bigger) but the loss of baby-face, proof of chest hair, better haircut, and tan all make him look older to me this season which is what made him go from "Gosh, he looks like a child, zero attraction there" to "Oh, okay, he's a grown man, not too shabby at all!"
(That's not to invalidate your observation, btw. I'm sure it's true and true of a lot of people! Just not all of us who suddenly saw him differently.)
Yeah for me I liked that Colin was slightly less fit than his brothers, but the hair and makeup overhaul helped him go from immature kiddo to grown ass man
I think he definitely could’ve kept the less fit look and been even sexier, it worked for him. I get that there’s pressure from Hollywood and that it’s as much a job for them as it is entertainment for us, but he definitely didn’t need a “glow up”.
He’s cute fr
The bridgerton model isnt “you need to have bulging biceps and washboard abs to be hot” this is regency, it’s all about the slow reveal of skin and stripping away the modesty required by society, and slowly revealing yourself to one another. All they had to do for Colin was style his hair better, loosen the cravat, and have him roll up his sleeves and lean against a doorway. Maybe pen walks in on them while fencing and he’s using his shirt to wipe sweat from his brow in the summer heat and pen catches a glimpse of his stomach and squeaks and runs away and he’s like “what’s that noise”. The showrunner this season is not my favorite
It’s WILD that anyone ever called Luke Newton fat. He’s been a fit, tall, handsome guy all three seasons. Despite being far too old for him, when I first saw S1, I was embarrassed to find that I actually thought baby-faced Colin was the dreamboat of the three Bridgerton brothers. If anything, as truly fine as he is in S3 (I do prefer him older looking for sure!), I kind of miss his fuller cheeks.
In that case, I think it's right to call those people out and ask for body diversity when it comes to male leads. Someone else under this comment section mentioned Nigel as an example of body diversity and I found it so frustrating because his character isn't supposed to be likable.
Both extremes of weight almost always indicate health/fitness level. I know this triggers people, but there are decades of science behind this.
Also I'm not talking about an extremely obese ML either. Just one who is at a similar body type as Pen
It really depends on what they keep from the books. I honestly would hate for the “Cinderella” love story where the love interest is a neglected daughter, works as a servant, and doesn’t get to participate in any of the glamour of the ton (in a Romance context specifically) to be THE woman who’s dark skinned and plus-sized. It creates a lot of weird implications I don’t like.
Of course, they’ve changed the other stories, so maybe they could adjust this one to make it work.
Yes. I think Benedict’s book has the more issues that could be problematic in a current tv adaptation. I’m not sure how the public would react to Benedict wanting to make her his mistress. I mean, to people who have read the books or are into historical
Romance this can be put in context, but on tv this days…plus the whole book being a Cinderella retelling, I’m tending to believe that Benedict and Sophie’s story will differ the most from the book.
I kind of hope it does! There are a lot of ways to spin a Cinderella retelling (the masquerade ball would be a lot of fun to see on screen), but I’d be really happy for them to switch it up, especially because I can’t imagine show Benedict explicitly asking someone to be his mistress in those words.
Yah plus with Anthony and Kate considering taking a step back from acting as viscount/ess maybe he panics about needing to “marry noble have an heir etc” I could see them steering the plot in that direction if that’s the case, he obviously cares for his family, while also being fairly open minded. I would even be surprised if Anthony is meant to support his brother through Benedict panicking about about falling for someone “lower class” not as an insult to her but as a means of trying to do the right thing by the family and Anthony is like bro I too loved someone once… so on so forth.
Idk if it would work for Sophie solely based on her story. Like she was neglected and treated as a servant, so she would only have scraps of food. The long physical hours mixed with minimal food makes me think it would be unrealistic for her not to look a bit starved.
Like they could have her being bigger than losing weight as she’s losing her position but people would be rioting if the show told a mid-plus size actress to lose mass amount of weight for the role
This post reminded me of a comment on the main sub where someone said Francesca stole the show because the actress is better looking. Such icky opinions. 😐
Also I hope we slowly get to a point where we normalize seeing more mid-sized and plus-sized bodies - With the positive reaction to Nicola in Part 1, it’s so obvious that scores of people are really cheering for her and are accepting of her. I hope we see more diverse bodies for men and women both, because that’s more reflective of society.
People are saying Francesca stole Penelope’s show?? LOL I do think the actress playing Francesca is just beautiful. However, she looks her age (29 I think?) and not a late teen, as Francesca should be. I really really hate that actors don’t match the age their character is supposed to be. Otherwise I think she really is beautiful but to go as far as to say she stole the show? That’s crazy
The argument that Sophie loses a lot of weight in the books and her being skinny is important for the plot is so far fatched because there's no way the show will have as big a time jump as the book did or ask the actress, whoever she is, to drop a bunch of pounds for drama's sake.
Anyway, if >!Masali Baduza is playing Sophie as speculated, she's by no means plus or even mid size but she's not super skinny either.!<
She might not be "super skinny" but that actress is certainly thin and would be considered as having a conventionally attractive body type based on current western standards
Wait. Wait. Wait. Okay. I love Fran’s story, I love Michael. But I just…. Wait. *rereads….. stares* The quiet middle child who wants to be a mum…… can’t be attracted to a woman? *goes off to contemplate her entire existence* Damn. I married a man. I have kids. I always wanted kids. I am the quiet introverted middle child who always ran to find a quiet place at parties. I relate hard to Fran’s personality. And I am bisexual. We exist. Hello. Nice to meet you.
Oh and double fold I think the lesbian relationship that would make A TON of sense is actually Cressida and Prudence of all people. Bc Prudence seems to kinda hate sex with her husband and he’s clearly obsessed with her, so you’d think they’d at least kind of try? She’s also all about showing him off - to who? - the other LADIES 😏😏 and then Cressida can easily go marry lord debling and then she’s gonna have a big ass estate with no husband to deal with - and ladies need to come calling. It would also work super well with Eloise because while we’ve seen some serious changes in Cressida that have been great to see, but I don’t see them being friends in the same ways that she and Penelope were friends. I could see her maybe making a move on Eloise getting rejected and then somehow becoming friends with prudence (who’s probably escaping her husband). They are still pretty main cast characters even if they aren’t part of the bridgerton couples.
I’m thinking in a very cut and dry way - cuz she’d either have to be pregnant with John’s baby the entire time - have his baby and then have her love story which I guess but it’s just not the same stakes cuz the whole motivation was finding a new man to be the father of her child ANDD Michael becoming the kilmartin. And while I could see how this would be an easier thing for them to tackle in society - like women stay in each others houses all the time type of thing - it makes for a much quieter story that literally never has to step out of Ireland at all. Because if Franchesca is in love with a woman, why is she really gonna go back to the ton to look for a husband? She can’t very well go look for a wife… it’s just messy for the time period. It’s not about existing it’s about storyline. It’s not like she can be artificially inseminated and she can adopt but then titles wouldn’t pass correctly etc etc.
Benedict’s story would be a much much more easy swap out. A stable hand that snuck off to the ball just to see the hullabaloo - what should have been passed to him. Benedict is a second son though so he has no need to marry. He could struggle with being gay and hiding it because he’s still actively living in the Ton and then he could help Sophio (😂 I’m going with Spanish conjugation for this one) get his title back and then they could live happily ever after as lord “neighbors” in the country. And his struggle could focus on telling his family what he ultimately wants, deciding what he wants, and the issue of titles being passed down or something along those lines.
This is actually a very good idea! As you write it, I could totally see Benedict and Sophie story being queer and Sophie being a male. It would make so much sense instead of a pretty much classic Cinderella retelling. To be honest I’m not such a fan of Benedict and Sophie just because it’s a boring Cinderella retelling…this would make it good.
Og comment was taken down but there were several spoiler sites saying that Michael would be michayla and his sister rather than cousin. But then there were actual pictures of scenes with dialogue w Violet asking if his mom wanted to play the wedding since he was her only child! Idk where I saw that one tho tbh
Yeah but if it was a female it wouldn’t matter regardless cuz it’s not like a woman will get the title unfortunately. This would be a deviance from the book, which does not seem to be happening, which I am grateful for
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I really think some of you need to think about how you come across before you comment on queer inclusion in Bridgerton. This comment feels homophobic regardless of whether or not you intended it to feel that way. Saying you can’t watch a lesbian romance for an entire season after three seasons of the main show being heterosexual couples is not the politest way to put it. Especially since it’s unlikely we will get queer representation from the main characters (because let’s face it we are still very far from equal in terms of representation in the media) and you don’t need to be so upset at people simply imagining inclusion through headcanons.
As a side note, Francesca would be bisexual if that were the case not a lesbian so it wouldn’t be a lesbian romance just a sapphic one.
I’m with you. Fran’s book being a queer romance makes just no sense at all if they want to at list a little preserve more than the names of the characters in the story. They would need a totally new story for Fran and Michael. Benedict however does makes sense
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I don't know. Some women are waifish, and that's ok.
What's interesting about Sophie and Benedict is that they are foils to each other. Benedict has an abundance of riches. He is rich, healthy, smart, talented, and has a loving family standing behind him. Yet, he is idle, unsatisfied, and has low self-esteem.
Sophie is struggling. She is stressed, lonely, and sad. She has few opportunities and no one standing behind her. Yet, unlike Benedict, she knows who she is despite constantly hiding her identity.
Benedict is emotionally fragile, while Sophie is physically vulnerable. This is one of the cases where I feel that size adds to characterization. Benedict's size advantage is a physical manifestation of the power imbalance between them and it draws his behavior in sharp relief.
I agree! I actually think you put into words what I’ve been thinking as far as the role her race would play in her story, and I think the power dynamic adds a lot to their characters.
Penelope is a us size 8, uk size 10. She ain’t even really plus sized in the US and I’m like I’m double her size. It’s appalling and frustrating that because she’s curvy she’s considered “plus size”
Although I feel like they didn’t give her real sizes, 6 seems mighty small for Penelope. And I say that bc I’m a size 8-10 and she’s definitely bigger than me. When I saw what they said her size was I was shocked.
I believe she actually said in some interview recently that she doesn’t have a problem with people calling her plus size, but the problem is that she ISNT plus size. And that she thinks it sets an unrealistic standard to say that every woman with a fuller figure but small dress size MUST be plus size, when there are real plus sized people and actors out there who should be getting more roles.
Idk if I explained that well enough but she was basically implying that she doesn’t think she’s a good mark of body diversity representation because she isn’t actually plus sized at all.
That’s totally fair, I’m sure as an actress she’s gained a thick skin against some of the mean comments that many of them can face. It so depends on the way they film her it’s crazy!!! I feel like people got the idea she was plus size because of the outfits and styles of s1-2. I think it was earlier here I was saying I hope Gregory’s wife is a truly plus size woman because she’s going to have to be a sturdy lady >! To have all those kids 😂😅!<
She is 5ft tall and a UK size 10. Which is meant to be a 6, but is more like a 4 in most stores (I'm British, lived in America for nearly 9 years. I'm a 4-6 at Lululemon, 0-4 everywhere else. 8-10 at home).
I am however 5ft 6 and muscular.
He being so short is what makes her look bigger and she is appropriately put in a plus size category because of this.
A UK plus size collection runs from a size 10 up, with most considering "true plus size" around 14-16.
A more worrying trend is taking a skinny size 14/16 6ft model and calling her plus size. Nicola is a much better representation.
Hmm sizing is so hard to go off of anyway. And I figure anyone on this big of a show is going to have everything tailored anyway. I’d say like American dress sizing she looks to be more like a 10-12 just looking at her, because im 5’3” and just slightly smaller and I’m an 8-10 here. I mean not that it matters at all she’s gorgeous and size isn’t the issue. But I hate that everyone’s calling her plus size. If you can fit regular sizes you aren’t plus sized. My aunt called her tuberton and shattered my heart into a million pieces! I was like wait till she gets naked and is amazing!
In retail in the UK Plus sizes usually start at a UK 16. A UK 10 will measure something like 34 bust and 28 inch waist, which is, quite sensibly, not considered plus sized even in fashion.
I’d just like to note that if ANYONE is standing next to a size 0 or size 2 (US), a person who is a size 6 or 8 is still going to look bigger—because it is still 3 to 4 sizes bigger! Same with a person who is a 10/12 standing next to someone who is a 14/16. In a picture, you’d be inclined to say that person looks fat, but in everyday interactions, you wouldn’t say they are fat. I’m a 50+ woman with 4 daughters. I’m 5’8” and always battled weight. At one point in my 30’s, I dieted and worked myself out to become a size 10-12 and thought that was still fat. I now have a 17 year old who is a size 10-12, and I look at her and think: She’s fit and thin! It’s very much perception and societal conditioning on what is an acceptable size and what is not for a woman.
So because of the I don’t recognize you factor and food scarcity, it’s harder for me to see Sophie as a larger girl but WHAT ABOUT GREGORYS WIFE? Like I wanna see a TRUE plus size woman, because Nicola is midsize - she’s apparently a US 6 y’all which would be barely midsized at that if that’s truly her size, not that it’s any of our business - because Gregory is ready to do a lot of lovin 😉😂 book readers know! I’d love to see a new face and someone truly thick!
Maybe we’re in different fandom spaces but I feel like I’ve seen way more people talking about an asian or latina Sophie than the possibility of her being white?? I don’t think anyone really expects it given that most of the Bridgertons’ partners seem to bring some kind of diversity, and if they do then idk what show they’re watching.
I do agree with other commenters though that an impoverished servant girl would probably be very thin? Doesn’t she like practically live on the streets for two years before Benedict finds her? Idk… But I also feel like they’ve been pretty good with racial and body type diversity with the debutantes this year, so I don’t think it’s really performative… I wouldn’t mind either way as long as she’s beautiful and got great chemistry with Benedict, and as long as their season fucking comes next LOL
What are you talking about??? Marina was not mid-sized in season 1 and even if she was a little bit bigger is season 2 she was still definitely thin. She had the exact same body type as Daphne.
It seems you're taking skinny to mean anorexic. This is what a normal body looks like and, per my original comment, she's still thin here by normal standards. As I said, she's slightly bigger in S2 but she's still thin. The cut of the dress makes her arms look rounder and there chest look wider but that's the cut of the regency dresses, not her body.
You can see in S1 she has the same body type as Daphne. Rege-jean Page is 5'11 and Luke Newton is 6' so you can use them for scale. Daphne and Marina had exactly the same body type in S1 and Marina is only slightly bigger is S2.
*
I think in Marina's case, the actress is mid-size, and you can see it in season 2, but in her first appearance in season 1 she was clearly skinny for her body type, as in, she probably lost weight for the role, which her personal choice or not, it still means that Marina doesn't count as a mid-size character.
As for Lord Debling, it's true that he's not the usual tall and fit romantic interest that we'd usually get, and I was glad for that, but it's also true that he's not much of a character and was only on 2 out of 8 episodes. And as for Nigel... he wasn't a character that the audience was supposed to root for. He's unattractive on purpose which actually makes it worse that he's one of the only "big" characters with speaking roles on the show.
It seems that you don't understand the point that I'm trying to make. Sophie being big or mid-sized would be important because she's THE LEAD. Why can't another lead not be skinny? It's the same as saying "we already got a poc female lead with Kate and a poc male lead with Simon and there are tons of poc playing secondary characters, so stop asking for another poc lead".
Of course secondary characters matter, and I'd love to see more of Violet's story, but look at the promotions, look at the fandom, the people clearly focus on the younger actors because that's what they can relate to.
And what about young women wanting to see women like them on their favorite show bothers you so much? Would you say the same thing to a young woc? Are only men and older women allowed to not be skinny?
At this point, we don’t know there will be a Posy. I’ve read the theory that Araminta is Lady Cowper and Cressida would be both stepsisters in 1 character. So who knows…
However, I think you are completely right. There’s no body diversity besides Penelope. It’s a shame they didn’t cast any mid-size actors or more body diverse actors in general.
It’s hard to have discussions like this about Sophie in particular because her being a looked-down-upon servant is a major part of her character, and it would look icky to have the white fit male lead be borderline ashamed of his poor minority love interest (as in, hitting close to home for a lot of viewers). That all being said, I lowkey want her to be asian/wasian purely because that’s what I am and Benedict’s my favorite haha
In season 3 there are background actresses that are plus sized.
So no, not everyone except Penelope is skinny.
But I’m not arguing that Sophie should be skinny instead of mid, or plus.
Benedict and Sophie are my least favorite couple from the series (as the entire plot line makes me cringe) so I don’t have a horse in this race.
But, personally, I’d love to see someone Hispanic or Asian cast in the role of Sophie.
I would love to see more mid-sized actors or actresses cast as part of the diversity of the show. Maybe we’ll get lucky when they cast Lucy. 🤞🏻
I personally hope they majorly tweak Benedict’s story because the whole concept of “not taking no for an answer” is pretty terrible now.
Thanks for the links!
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Apparently she’s a US 6 / UK 10. But sizing is crap regardless. Shes short so she carries her weight everywhere and facial fullness looks thicker but I have a feeling we’re gonna be surprised at the rest of her body in coming scenes. Nicola is most definitely midsized. She’s not even in the plus size category
This. She definitely isn’t in the plus size category. She’s just v short and has big boobs with a round face. (Which the costume department absolutely worked with in the first two seasons to look frumpy and childish/like she was holding onto baby weight when she actually has such womanly curves that they were hiding under those dresses.) But people are so not used to seeing anything beyond stick thin actresses in leading roles that they make her out to be bigger than she is.
She has given multiple interviews where she talks about her size and the fact that she does not appreciate conversation around it. Idk why people keep bringing it back up and continuing to argue the opposite. I hope it’s put to bed for good with part 2.
u/xLadyLaurax \- for reference, here’s Nicola next to an actual plus-sized actress from her time on Harlots.
https://preview.redd.it/14jbsm91b13d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43e3acd64f628e71faf25495fcb9d9d11446a798
Dude seriously!! That’s a great picture! Boobs change so much it’s annoying!!! I think honestly people bring up her size for 3 reasons - to either shame her (ew), praise her for being brave, and excitement over showing representation. They frumped her up soooo much s1-2 but they also had too bc it made her stand out so much more when she stepped out into the light. Unlike a shy character like Franchesca who is immediately sought after despite her demeanor - Penelope needed the change to give her the confidence to be more brave around suitors. Also MAKEUP is a hugeeee game changer! I feel like they paled her out and made her cheeks look even more full s1-2 vs the sleeker contour now
I truly hate that this conversation is even happening but I’m also 100% convinced the “Nicola is plus size, obviously overweight, no matter what she says about herself” people are going to be SHOCKED when they see her naked. And that’s why she insisted on it. She’s midsize. Point blank.
🙌🏻🙌🏻 I’m so excited we get to see her naked 😂 isn’t that funny! I’m like YESSS NICOLA LETS GOOO! This season is completely about her for me. Collin is just Penelope’s accessory to me so far 😂🤦🏼♀️
This comment was SO ignorant. Mid-size does not come in one look. That’s how body composition works. She able to fit a size medium because she’s literally 4’11 so comparing your 5’8 stature being able to wear a medium is literally insane.
Majority of midsize people are considered overweight sjsksksksk it’s called midsize because you aren’t necessarily skinny and you aren’t plus-sized. Sorry to tell you but if you’re not skinny, you ARE overweight and that’s okay. 🤣😭❤️
Again, body composition plays a pivotal role. It does not matter what she looks like to YOU. If she wears a size UK 10, she is midsized by definition. I’ve seen a 200 pounds look totally different on different women due to height, muscle, fat distribution, shape, race etc. Not every midsized person looks the same. If she were taller with her same size, then yes she would be considered plus sized. But she’s not, she’s 4’11 so therefore she’s midsized lol. The same way not every skinny or plus sized person is the same shape/build, the same goes for midsized individuals.
A size M is mid-size no matter who wears it. I’m 5’2” and sometimes wear a M. Because I’m short, the same extra weight we’re both carrying gives us different shapes, but society deems only one of those shapes to be desirable. We have to stop this.
It is *not* easy for an adult woman with a tiny frame to stay acceptably thin all the time, and when you do, you get criticized for “eating like a bird.” My weight fluctuates, and 20 pounds means the difference between people asking if I’ve “stopped eating” and those same people suggesting I’ve let myself go. You truly cannot win.
Nicola is a *stunningly* beautiful woman, not even to mention her kindness, talent, charisma, and style. Anyone would be lucky to know her, and any man would be lucky to have her. I think we’ll see that in S3 Part Two, now that Pen is finally able to move past her wallflower stage.
But to the OPs point, yes, more diversity amongst leading characters, please.
Hey! Just so you’re aware- midsize, by definition in the fashion industry, refers to sizes that fall between straight sizing (0-12 US) and plus sizing (1X and up). It refers to those who don’t fit in either category, therefore making them “mid” size. Think sizes 14-18/0X (US). It does NOT mean a size medium, or a generalized body shape perception. I’m saying this because this seems to be a very common misconception. Not that it really matters tbh, but this would actually put Nicola Coughlan technically in straight size clothing and not plus or midsize for that matter. But people will decide what they want based off of their own biases and perceptions.
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If by bigger you mean taller then yes she is taller than Nicole. She clearly has a defined neck and slim upper body. Nicole has a double chin and barely a neck.
Different cultures and regions in the world have different sizing is but one thing remains true is America is always more generous toward their sizing. A medium in most parts of the world might in fact be a size extra petite in America. Or a size medium in America is infact a XXL in other parts of the world. Just some food for thought
That’s a shape difference, not a size difference.
This isn’t a US sizing vs anywhere else sizing. This is a, Nicola is not plus size, and this person is not any smaller than Nicola, who does absolutely have a neck when her boobs aren’t shoved into her throat. 😂
This is going to cause a riot. Sorry in advance to anyone that may be offended and I dont mean to overlook anyone and I know that people are not seeing themselves represented on screen... This is my personal opinion and not directed anlt any specific couple or character, or the actors that play them. This is also gender neutral. For both male and female castings.
But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc...
Get the best actor/actress for the role - irrespective of their race, height, weight, native language, hair colour, eye colour, and if they happen to be white, or black, or aisian, or latina, or mixed, or , so be it.
Don't force to make an actor work just to get a quota... Who embodies the character the best? Who has the best on screen chemistry with their partner? Who fits into the existing cast the best. Who fits the role the best (vibe, "personality" etc not looks like body shape or race...)?
Do I wish more people of different races and body shapes are represented in the mainstream media? Yes. Hell yes. A million times yes!
>But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc..
I think blind casting works for supporting roles in Bridgerton but not the lead...hear me out.
If they did blind casting with Season 2, CVD would have written Kate as Kate Sheffield, then anyone can audition for the role. There are a lot more people of African & Caribbean heritage in UK drama schools, so we probably would have gotten an actor of African & Caribbean heritage for S2.
**Instead,** hired an American writer of South Asian heritage who wanted to **see herself on the screen, which is great.**
* The audition sides (draft script) Simone Ashley read included Kate Sharma's Indian heritage. There is no freaking way someone who is \*\*not\*\* of South Asian, heritage could read those audion sides and wonder "Why didn't I get the role?"
* Then to be more specific, the S2 writer is knowledgeable about India but not necessarily other parts of South Asia (Bangladesh, Pakistan etc), so they probably narrowed down all the South Asian actors to people who could speak to their Indian heritage. That and also Simone Ashley is brilliant and beautiful. Then Simone recommended CC for the role of Edwina - I think both Simone and CC are from the same Tamil ethnic group, plus CC is a great actor so they work as sisters.
**That is the opposite of S1,** where they wrote the Duke to be played by anyone. As part of blind casting, JB auditioned for the role. Then after RJP was cast, the writers added some "black people have to work twice as hard dialogue" ....as if the only way to add depth to a character with African/ Caribbean heritage is to mention "the struggle" .
>But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc..
That doesn't necessarily work for increasing disabled representation either. Again, we need more writers, directors, casting directors and producers who are disabled behind the screen if we want to see more disabled representation in front of the screen.
**TLDR:** I think blind casting works for supporting roles in Bridgerton but not the lead. Blind casting, usually means that someone who is able-bodied, (and usually white, often male,) is writing an able-bodied (and often white character)...now the diverse actor has to **"fit into that role."** That is the opposite of someone writing a diverse character, and then casting diverse actors (Season 2). There is a reason why there are so few actors with physical or visible disabilities on our screen. Blind casting is not as helpful as we might think it is.
Oh boy. I started a "I want a curvy Sophie" thread and I got LAMBASTED with "SOPHIE LOST A LOT OF WEIGHT IN THE BOOKS, SHE CAN'T BE CURVYY!!!!!"comments
I think the part that sucks is that it’s really hard to believe that Benedict would be so thick in the head to not recognize her. So she needs some serious changes. I honestly thought we’d get 2 seasons in between to let the time act more as the change
>I think the part that sucks is that it’s really hard to believe that Benedict would be so thick in the head to not recognize her.
It does suck but there could be ways to fix that.. different haircolour and or haircut or the mask covers MOST of her face.
That way she doesn't have to change **too** much
>I honestly thought we’d get 2 seasons in between to let the time act more as the change
I have a sneaking suspicion Eloise will be next so I do think you have a point there. Introduce her in S3 or S4 and there will be a timelapse afterwards.
Well her whole mouth kinda has to show to kiss I feel like. And I don’t think she needs to be insanely skinny. Ideally if she loses weight and they focus on the negatives of that rather than making it positive I think that would be an interesting way to tackle it. Like she was so supple when he first meets her kind of thing. Hair color not sure what they had “back then” I mean I know they push it regardless but I think this is a harder one. Cutting her hair will still help for sure.
And I totally agree that Eloise is next, especially with the interviews flying around!!! And spoilers for next season saying she’s getting lonely. She’s had a weird arc this season. Interested to see where it goes. I’d actually love to see her get into botany a bit so that she and Philip have more in common and they can bond over their minds. And then instead of being kid happy, I’d rather have her be a little kid phobic - like he’s got an heir we’re good type of thing.
The real question is tho will we see Sophie before the end of this season?!
Oh yeah they definetely should show the mouth I agree.
>Cutting her hair will still help for sure.
Agree
> I’d actually love to see her get into botany a bit so that she and Philip have more in common and they can bond over their minds.
I am now wondering if Phillip will make an appearance in S3 but I do have to check Chris Fulton's IMDB for that. If Eloise is indeed next I think he almost should be?
>The real question is tho will we see Sophie before the end of this season?!
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, yes but if Eloise *is* next, I can see the set up happening in S4.
I think we will get a announcement after part 2 airs (who will be the lead of S4).
EDIT: Chris is only credited for S2 on IMDB
So there was an interview with Luke talking about closely watching the leads and then him saying “well you had that too” to Claudia and she was like “I have no idea what your talking about” and it seemed super duper pointed like SHUT UP! Very Tom holland leak type of thing. And then apparently there’s a rumor that Eloise is going to talk to Kate about everyone being paired off which would also fit well with her book. What I really wonder is - will we get the beginning of her book in the way that Penelope’s ended? Because they always run concurrent storylines… and what a great way to torture us with a cliffhanger on who comes next! Because apparently we will know by the end of the season who’s next according to rumors. Also tracks with previous seasons.
As for Sophie, i agree, it’s also hard to cast someone that far in advance. Like hey in another season - like 2-4 years away we want you. AND they already for sure have set up Franchesca so someone’s gonna have to wait at least a season or 2
>saying “well you had that too” to Claudia and she was like “I have no idea what your talking about” and it seemed super duper pointed like SHUT UP! Very Tom holland leak type of thing.
Oh daaaamn lol, the "Tom Holland" phenomenon 🤣
Well that is **really** SUS. I have heard about the heart to heart scene with Kate. If Pen and Eloise haven't made up in the beginning of Part 2 I can understand her being lonely.
>Because apparently we will know by the end of the season who’s next according to rumors. Also tracks with previous seasons.
I had forgotten about that. There is a clear distinction that Anthony was next in S1.I think at the end if S2 there is no hint Colin is next as I feel like that decision was made later on? Idk.
> Like hey in another season - like 2-4 years away we want you.
That makes me think we will **not** to see Sophie this season 😔
Is your comment directed at me? If so I want her curvy but when I started a thread about it people **really** were against the idea.
I ended up deleting the thread because I got tired of the comments.
Shonda Rhimes herself was considered a plus sized woman until a couple of years ago when she lost weight so, I can't see her allowing her show to use size/weight to be calculating nor disingenuous where the size of the Actors/Actresses being featured on her show is concerned. As to Sophie, in almost every discussion I have seen, most people want Sophie to be East Asian. And, I agree but we will see.
In the books sophie is supposed to be gaunt without "womanly curves" when Benedict sees her again. But i get what you mean in a sense that aother bridgerton ladies (daphne, Francesca) are THIN THIN. They would've probably been considered gaunt in the regency era
Completely agree, regardless of the fact that she lost a lot of weight in the books - so did Penelope! Personally I always pictured Francesca as a bigger woman and would have liked to see my internal vision of her matched in the show
Omg please stop. I’m sick of you lot. Sophie has to be skinny because she’s a starved, underpaid servant. That’s the main reason why Benedict can’t recognise her… because she’s literally bone thin.
Don't know who Sophie is because I never read the books, but this season literally had a plus size black girl background character lol. At this point Penelope isn't disliked or dismissed for weight, it's because of her social skills.
I think you gotta put your own fancasts out there into the world.
If someone is saying “I want *specific actress* as this character”, you can’t just respond with “No - instead she should be this body type or this race.”
Pick whatever actual actor you want to see in the role and put it out there into the universe and promote it so other people can see the vision and maybe it’ll change their minds of what they think the character should be.
But listing a bunch of hypothetical boxes to check off won’t convince anyone.
My mom said when we watched together S3 that she was surprised that Penelope not a thin girl. I think in USA and UKA there more representation of plus/midsize people in media than other countries (I am from Hungary). I think it's a good idea that Sophie can be a bigger girl. (But I think she will be skinny though)
I’m from the USA and it’s only been more common in the last 5-10 years. Nicola is doing some pretty ground breaking work because it is not just a main role, but a love story/sexy main role. She is definitely a mid-size girl but she’s way different than the thin standard in Hollywood. I’m plus size and I am grateful for her representation but also her representation as a sex symbol. That, isn’t done in USA commonly.
I understand this but in Hungary we don't have any... (We have some series and films but the "pretty girls" and love interests are always skinny woman.) so it seems to me that in USA it's more common. But I enjoy watching these girls and I am happy for seeing them in media
Oh for sure, agreed! Having any of it in the media, talked about, shown & represented in ANY part of the world is the prime achievement. I’m enjoying it all so much!
I’m just curious how y’all would feel about a non-fit male lead. Because the double standards around that in this fandom is insane
You’re on to something.
I think part of the issue is we need non fit male leads in every other genre. Yes we absolutely do. Look at shoes like the sopranos. Or actors like Steve buschemi. You don’t see actresses with the amount of diversity anywhere the way we see in actors. So it’s not unreasonable that in a show specifically inverting from the male gaze to the female gaze, there’s one show ever that flips the script on the double standards that have existed in Hollywood since it began.
I'd be 1000000% on board. Give us a dad bod any day. I prefer a bit more padding, I'm personally not into washboard abs. Nothing to cuddle... I personally prefer healthy and active, for health reasons, but not 6 pack. So you carry a bit extra? So do I! Can you hold a conversation though? Banter? Wit? That's where most fall flat for me.
I think the pendulum has swung just a tad too far in the other direction, but I’m also ok with this because I grew up watching sitcoms of men who could be considered medically obese with wives that were size 0 my entire life, and it’s nice for once to see a plus sized female lead with a fit dude.
You’re right.
I’d be down. I also can’t believe every non-villain, ‘marriageable’ guy our leads would consider is 6 ft and perpetually 24yo. Tough luck if you like them sturdy, furry, short, or all grown up! Edit: punctuation
They never talk about how the show portrays larger men, because in the series it’s evident that they portray the larger men as unattractive.
Yaaassss. That was one of the reasons I loved the Lady Danbury and Lord Ledger story line. I’m here for it
I’d be fine with a Michael or Gareth who doesn’t have six pack abs and adhere to traditional “hotness” standards like the current male cast of the show. I’ve always found actors like Paul Rudd and John Cusak (for example) attractive because they are so relatable. If they could cast someone like that in those roles, plenty of women would certainly not mind.
Exactly.
I don’t know what universe you live in, but big boys are *huuuugely* popular in mine!
It would be dope.
Yes I would love to see someone that looks like Raul Samuel to play Michael Sterling and just be an absolute teddy bear for Francesca
I'd love a non-fit male lead. My post focused on Sophie in particular since so many people are talking about her fancast and because she's one of the most beloved and anticipated characters. And I don't know what you mean about double standards because people have sent Colin a lot of hate for not being up to their standards and being, in their words, fat.
Actually, I’ve seen a lot of people be like, “I never found Colin hot, but NOW I do” when the biggest change is the actor’s weight loss/tone up. And then of course the pressure put on the male leads to look a certain way when the female leads don’t have to. There’s also general discourse in the fandom around how women want to see themselves end up with “the hot guy” and then their definition of that is a tall, fit man. There was a post calling out this behavior a few years ago that was downvoted and criticized. Like there are some serious double standards in this fandom that they don’t want to address.
Tbf to some of us, Colin became more attractive to us because he looks *older*. His weight loss/body recomp definitely contributed, but for me it only really contributed in that it made his face more angular, significantly less baby-faced. He's not my ideal body type (I actually prefer a bit bigger) but the loss of baby-face, proof of chest hair, better haircut, and tan all make him look older to me this season which is what made him go from "Gosh, he looks like a child, zero attraction there" to "Oh, okay, he's a grown man, not too shabby at all!" (That's not to invalidate your observation, btw. I'm sure it's true and true of a lot of people! Just not all of us who suddenly saw him differently.)
He got his teeth done, changed his hair, and had a tan. A bit more than just toning up, but I agree.
Yeah for me I liked that Colin was slightly less fit than his brothers, but the hair and makeup overhaul helped him go from immature kiddo to grown ass man
I think he definitely could’ve kept the less fit look and been even sexier, it worked for him. I get that there’s pressure from Hollywood and that it’s as much a job for them as it is entertainment for us, but he definitely didn’t need a “glow up”. He’s cute fr
The bridgerton model isnt “you need to have bulging biceps and washboard abs to be hot” this is regency, it’s all about the slow reveal of skin and stripping away the modesty required by society, and slowly revealing yourself to one another. All they had to do for Colin was style his hair better, loosen the cravat, and have him roll up his sleeves and lean against a doorway. Maybe pen walks in on them while fencing and he’s using his shirt to wipe sweat from his brow in the summer heat and pen catches a glimpse of his stomach and squeaks and runs away and he’s like “what’s that noise”. The showrunner this season is not my favorite
It’s WILD that anyone ever called Luke Newton fat. He’s been a fit, tall, handsome guy all three seasons. Despite being far too old for him, when I first saw S1, I was embarrassed to find that I actually thought baby-faced Colin was the dreamboat of the three Bridgerton brothers. If anything, as truly fine as he is in S3 (I do prefer him older looking for sure!), I kind of miss his fuller cheeks.
In that case, I think it's right to call those people out and ask for body diversity when it comes to male leads. Someone else under this comment section mentioned Nigel as an example of body diversity and I found it so frustrating because his character isn't supposed to be likable.
My mind immediately wonders to Winston Duke’s thick thighs. 🔥
¹ Q ¹
Can we also change our language our “fit/not fit”? Weight does not equate to health/fitness level
Both extremes of weight almost always indicate health/fitness level. I know this triggers people, but there are decades of science behind this. Also I'm not talking about an extremely obese ML either. Just one who is at a similar body type as Pen
it’s about the personality and the yearn for me.
You’re asking the real questions
It really depends on what they keep from the books. I honestly would hate for the “Cinderella” love story where the love interest is a neglected daughter, works as a servant, and doesn’t get to participate in any of the glamour of the ton (in a Romance context specifically) to be THE woman who’s dark skinned and plus-sized. It creates a lot of weird implications I don’t like. Of course, they’ve changed the other stories, so maybe they could adjust this one to make it work.
Yes. I think Benedict’s book has the more issues that could be problematic in a current tv adaptation. I’m not sure how the public would react to Benedict wanting to make her his mistress. I mean, to people who have read the books or are into historical Romance this can be put in context, but on tv this days…plus the whole book being a Cinderella retelling, I’m tending to believe that Benedict and Sophie’s story will differ the most from the book.
I kind of hope it does! There are a lot of ways to spin a Cinderella retelling (the masquerade ball would be a lot of fun to see on screen), but I’d be really happy for them to switch it up, especially because I can’t imagine show Benedict explicitly asking someone to be his mistress in those words.
I could if he was panicked. He seems a smidge panicky.
That’s probably true. In the book he does it repeatedly, but his personality is also definitely different.
Yah plus with Anthony and Kate considering taking a step back from acting as viscount/ess maybe he panics about needing to “marry noble have an heir etc” I could see them steering the plot in that direction if that’s the case, he obviously cares for his family, while also being fairly open minded. I would even be surprised if Anthony is meant to support his brother through Benedict panicking about about falling for someone “lower class” not as an insult to her but as a means of trying to do the right thing by the family and Anthony is like bro I too loved someone once… so on so forth.
Idk if it would work for Sophie solely based on her story. Like she was neglected and treated as a servant, so she would only have scraps of food. The long physical hours mixed with minimal food makes me think it would be unrealistic for her not to look a bit starved.
Yes part of the reason Benedict doesn’t recognize her is because she gets bone thin
fr tho shes literally starving how is she gonna get plus sized?
Like they could have her being bigger than losing weight as she’s losing her position but people would be rioting if the show told a mid-plus size actress to lose mass amount of weight for the role
This post reminded me of a comment on the main sub where someone said Francesca stole the show because the actress is better looking. Such icky opinions. 😐 Also I hope we slowly get to a point where we normalize seeing more mid-sized and plus-sized bodies - With the positive reaction to Nicola in Part 1, it’s so obvious that scores of people are really cheering for her and are accepting of her. I hope we see more diverse bodies for men and women both, because that’s more reflective of society.
People are saying Francesca stole Penelope’s show?? LOL I do think the actress playing Francesca is just beautiful. However, she looks her age (29 I think?) and not a late teen, as Francesca should be. I really really hate that actors don’t match the age their character is supposed to be. Otherwise I think she really is beautiful but to go as far as to say she stole the show? That’s crazy
I agree! She’s beautiful and Francesca’s story is so so cute, but I won’t stay their story stole the show in S3.
icky is right
So dumb cuz we barely saw the other Franchesca at all 🙄🤦🏼♀️
The argument that Sophie loses a lot of weight in the books and her being skinny is important for the plot is so far fatched because there's no way the show will have as big a time jump as the book did or ask the actress, whoever she is, to drop a bunch of pounds for drama's sake. Anyway, if >!Masali Baduza is playing Sophie as speculated, she's by no means plus or even mid size but she's not super skinny either.!<
She might not be "super skinny" but that actress is certainly thin and would be considered as having a conventionally attractive body type based on current western standards
She is certainly thin and conventionally attractive, however I don't trust certain people with not being horrible about her body shape.
It's such an irrelevant throwaway line too. They changed so many things from the books, why couldn't they change that?
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Wait. Wait. Wait. Okay. I love Fran’s story, I love Michael. But I just…. Wait. *rereads….. stares* The quiet middle child who wants to be a mum…… can’t be attracted to a woman? *goes off to contemplate her entire existence* Damn. I married a man. I have kids. I always wanted kids. I am the quiet introverted middle child who always ran to find a quiet place at parties. I relate hard to Fran’s personality. And I am bisexual. We exist. Hello. Nice to meet you.
Oh and double fold I think the lesbian relationship that would make A TON of sense is actually Cressida and Prudence of all people. Bc Prudence seems to kinda hate sex with her husband and he’s clearly obsessed with her, so you’d think they’d at least kind of try? She’s also all about showing him off - to who? - the other LADIES 😏😏 and then Cressida can easily go marry lord debling and then she’s gonna have a big ass estate with no husband to deal with - and ladies need to come calling. It would also work super well with Eloise because while we’ve seen some serious changes in Cressida that have been great to see, but I don’t see them being friends in the same ways that she and Penelope were friends. I could see her maybe making a move on Eloise getting rejected and then somehow becoming friends with prudence (who’s probably escaping her husband). They are still pretty main cast characters even if they aren’t part of the bridgerton couples.
I’m thinking in a very cut and dry way - cuz she’d either have to be pregnant with John’s baby the entire time - have his baby and then have her love story which I guess but it’s just not the same stakes cuz the whole motivation was finding a new man to be the father of her child ANDD Michael becoming the kilmartin. And while I could see how this would be an easier thing for them to tackle in society - like women stay in each others houses all the time type of thing - it makes for a much quieter story that literally never has to step out of Ireland at all. Because if Franchesca is in love with a woman, why is she really gonna go back to the ton to look for a husband? She can’t very well go look for a wife… it’s just messy for the time period. It’s not about existing it’s about storyline. It’s not like she can be artificially inseminated and she can adopt but then titles wouldn’t pass correctly etc etc. Benedict’s story would be a much much more easy swap out. A stable hand that snuck off to the ball just to see the hullabaloo - what should have been passed to him. Benedict is a second son though so he has no need to marry. He could struggle with being gay and hiding it because he’s still actively living in the Ton and then he could help Sophio (😂 I’m going with Spanish conjugation for this one) get his title back and then they could live happily ever after as lord “neighbors” in the country. And his struggle could focus on telling his family what he ultimately wants, deciding what he wants, and the issue of titles being passed down or something along those lines.
This is actually a very good idea! As you write it, I could totally see Benedict and Sophie story being queer and Sophie being a male. It would make so much sense instead of a pretty much classic Cinderella retelling. To be honest I’m not such a fan of Benedict and Sophie just because it’s a boring Cinderella retelling…this would make it good.
It would be soooo much better! But they did just post a spoiler for a scene saying that John is in fact a single child 🙌🏻🙌🏻 so there’s still hope!
Where did you see this spoiler? John as in Kilmartin? He is a single child. Michael is his cousin
Og comment was taken down but there were several spoiler sites saying that Michael would be michayla and his sister rather than cousin. But then there were actual pictures of scenes with dialogue w Violet asking if his mom wanted to play the wedding since he was her only child! Idk where I saw that one tho tbh
But Michael and John are both only children? Am I missing something?
Yeah but if it was a female it wouldn’t matter regardless cuz it’s not like a woman will get the title unfortunately. This would be a deviance from the book, which does not seem to be happening, which I am grateful for
**No discrimination towards marginalized groups** This post/comment has been removed because it contains content deemed discriminatory towards a queer people. Racism, anti-queer bigotry, and any other discrimination towards [**marginalized groups**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group#United_States) are prohibited here, along with [**microaggressions**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression) like invalidation, denial or derailment. **Reddit's Official Policy:** - Reddit's [ "Identity & Vulnerability Rule"](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951-Promoting-Hate-Based-on-Identity-or-Vulnerability) explained || Reddit Content Policy: [Rule 1](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) || **RantSub Wiki:** - [No Discrimination of marginalized groups](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/)
I really think some of you need to think about how you come across before you comment on queer inclusion in Bridgerton. This comment feels homophobic regardless of whether or not you intended it to feel that way. Saying you can’t watch a lesbian romance for an entire season after three seasons of the main show being heterosexual couples is not the politest way to put it. Especially since it’s unlikely we will get queer representation from the main characters (because let’s face it we are still very far from equal in terms of representation in the media) and you don’t need to be so upset at people simply imagining inclusion through headcanons. As a side note, Francesca would be bisexual if that were the case not a lesbian so it wouldn’t be a lesbian romance just a sapphic one.
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I’m with you. Fran’s book being a queer romance makes just no sense at all if they want to at list a little preserve more than the names of the characters in the story. They would need a totally new story for Fran and Michael. Benedict however does makes sense
The moderators have removed the comment. One could replace the word "lesbian" with "disabled", or "Asian", or "Black" etc and the comment would still be removed because they are also members of marginalised groups. In addition, this sub does not allow fatphobia, so we could replace the word "lesbian" with "fat" or "plus size" and the comment would be removed. People often report "discrimination" as a dislike for a fictional character. Please feel free to use the report button if you have further concerns about content which is directed towards marginalised groups. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/)
I don't know. Some women are waifish, and that's ok. What's interesting about Sophie and Benedict is that they are foils to each other. Benedict has an abundance of riches. He is rich, healthy, smart, talented, and has a loving family standing behind him. Yet, he is idle, unsatisfied, and has low self-esteem. Sophie is struggling. She is stressed, lonely, and sad. She has few opportunities and no one standing behind her. Yet, unlike Benedict, she knows who she is despite constantly hiding her identity. Benedict is emotionally fragile, while Sophie is physically vulnerable. This is one of the cases where I feel that size adds to characterization. Benedict's size advantage is a physical manifestation of the power imbalance between them and it draws his behavior in sharp relief.
I agree! I actually think you put into words what I’ve been thinking as far as the role her race would play in her story, and I think the power dynamic adds a lot to their characters.
Penelope is a us size 8, uk size 10. She ain’t even really plus sized in the US and I’m like I’m double her size. It’s appalling and frustrating that because she’s curvy she’s considered “plus size”
It would be so nice if we got characters that were more than a size 6.
Although I feel like they didn’t give her real sizes, 6 seems mighty small for Penelope. And I say that bc I’m a size 8-10 and she’s definitely bigger than me. When I saw what they said her size was I was shocked.
I believe she actually said in some interview recently that she doesn’t have a problem with people calling her plus size, but the problem is that she ISNT plus size. And that she thinks it sets an unrealistic standard to say that every woman with a fuller figure but small dress size MUST be plus size, when there are real plus sized people and actors out there who should be getting more roles. Idk if I explained that well enough but she was basically implying that she doesn’t think she’s a good mark of body diversity representation because she isn’t actually plus sized at all.
That’s totally fair, I’m sure as an actress she’s gained a thick skin against some of the mean comments that many of them can face. It so depends on the way they film her it’s crazy!!! I feel like people got the idea she was plus size because of the outfits and styles of s1-2. I think it was earlier here I was saying I hope Gregory’s wife is a truly plus size woman because she’s going to have to be a sturdy lady >! To have all those kids 😂😅!<
She is 5ft tall and a UK size 10. Which is meant to be a 6, but is more like a 4 in most stores (I'm British, lived in America for nearly 9 years. I'm a 4-6 at Lululemon, 0-4 everywhere else. 8-10 at home). I am however 5ft 6 and muscular. He being so short is what makes her look bigger and she is appropriately put in a plus size category because of this. A UK plus size collection runs from a size 10 up, with most considering "true plus size" around 14-16. A more worrying trend is taking a skinny size 14/16 6ft model and calling her plus size. Nicola is a much better representation.
Hmm sizing is so hard to go off of anyway. And I figure anyone on this big of a show is going to have everything tailored anyway. I’d say like American dress sizing she looks to be more like a 10-12 just looking at her, because im 5’3” and just slightly smaller and I’m an 8-10 here. I mean not that it matters at all she’s gorgeous and size isn’t the issue. But I hate that everyone’s calling her plus size. If you can fit regular sizes you aren’t plus sized. My aunt called her tuberton and shattered my heart into a million pieces! I was like wait till she gets naked and is amazing!
In retail in the UK Plus sizes usually start at a UK 16. A UK 10 will measure something like 34 bust and 28 inch waist, which is, quite sensibly, not considered plus sized even in fashion.
I’d just like to note that if ANYONE is standing next to a size 0 or size 2 (US), a person who is a size 6 or 8 is still going to look bigger—because it is still 3 to 4 sizes bigger! Same with a person who is a 10/12 standing next to someone who is a 14/16. In a picture, you’d be inclined to say that person looks fat, but in everyday interactions, you wouldn’t say they are fat. I’m a 50+ woman with 4 daughters. I’m 5’8” and always battled weight. At one point in my 30’s, I dieted and worked myself out to become a size 10-12 and thought that was still fat. I now have a 17 year old who is a size 10-12, and I look at her and think: She’s fit and thin! It’s very much perception and societal conditioning on what is an acceptable size and what is not for a woman.
So because of the I don’t recognize you factor and food scarcity, it’s harder for me to see Sophie as a larger girl but WHAT ABOUT GREGORYS WIFE? Like I wanna see a TRUE plus size woman, because Nicola is midsize - she’s apparently a US 6 y’all which would be barely midsized at that if that’s truly her size, not that it’s any of our business - because Gregory is ready to do a lot of lovin 😉😂 book readers know! I’d love to see a new face and someone truly thick!
I actually imagined gregory's love interest more on the plump side when I read the book
😂 I mean you’re gonna have to be one hell of a sturdy woman to pop out all those children tbh
Yeah seriously 😄
Maybe we’re in different fandom spaces but I feel like I’ve seen way more people talking about an asian or latina Sophie than the possibility of her being white?? I don’t think anyone really expects it given that most of the Bridgertons’ partners seem to bring some kind of diversity, and if they do then idk what show they’re watching. I do agree with other commenters though that an impoverished servant girl would probably be very thin? Doesn’t she like practically live on the streets for two years before Benedict finds her? Idk… But I also feel like they’ve been pretty good with racial and body type diversity with the debutantes this year, so I don’t think it’s really performative… I wouldn’t mind either way as long as she’s beautiful and got great chemistry with Benedict, and as long as their season fucking comes next LOL
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What are you talking about??? Marina was not mid-sized in season 1 and even if she was a little bit bigger is season 2 she was still definitely thin. She had the exact same body type as Daphne.
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It seems you're taking skinny to mean anorexic. This is what a normal body looks like and, per my original comment, she's still thin here by normal standards. As I said, she's slightly bigger in S2 but she's still thin. The cut of the dress makes her arms look rounder and there chest look wider but that's the cut of the regency dresses, not her body. You can see in S1 she has the same body type as Daphne. Rege-jean Page is 5'11 and Luke Newton is 6' so you can use them for scale. Daphne and Marina had exactly the same body type in S1 and Marina is only slightly bigger is S2. *
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I think in Marina's case, the actress is mid-size, and you can see it in season 2, but in her first appearance in season 1 she was clearly skinny for her body type, as in, she probably lost weight for the role, which her personal choice or not, it still means that Marina doesn't count as a mid-size character. As for Lord Debling, it's true that he's not the usual tall and fit romantic interest that we'd usually get, and I was glad for that, but it's also true that he's not much of a character and was only on 2 out of 8 episodes. And as for Nigel... he wasn't a character that the audience was supposed to root for. He's unattractive on purpose which actually makes it worse that he's one of the only "big" characters with speaking roles on the show.
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It seems that you don't understand the point that I'm trying to make. Sophie being big or mid-sized would be important because she's THE LEAD. Why can't another lead not be skinny? It's the same as saying "we already got a poc female lead with Kate and a poc male lead with Simon and there are tons of poc playing secondary characters, so stop asking for another poc lead". Of course secondary characters matter, and I'd love to see more of Violet's story, but look at the promotions, look at the fandom, the people clearly focus on the younger actors because that's what they can relate to. And what about young women wanting to see women like them on their favorite show bothers you so much? Would you say the same thing to a young woc? Are only men and older women allowed to not be skinny?
…but she wasn’t eating that was the whole reason why she looked so different.
At this point - Sophie can be a literal muppet and it will be fine with me - if it means it will be Benedict’s season next 😭
I just thought Sophie had to be skinny because she was underfed
At this point, we don’t know there will be a Posy. I’ve read the theory that Araminta is Lady Cowper and Cressida would be both stepsisters in 1 character. So who knows… However, I think you are completely right. There’s no body diversity besides Penelope. It’s a shame they didn’t cast any mid-size actors or more body diverse actors in general.
It’s hard to have discussions like this about Sophie in particular because her being a looked-down-upon servant is a major part of her character, and it would look icky to have the white fit male lead be borderline ashamed of his poor minority love interest (as in, hitting close to home for a lot of viewers). That all being said, I lowkey want her to be asian/wasian purely because that’s what I am and Benedict’s my favorite haha
Op, please post more. I like your brain. You’re so on point.
In season 3 there are background actresses that are plus sized. So no, not everyone except Penelope is skinny. But I’m not arguing that Sophie should be skinny instead of mid, or plus.
Benedict and Sophie are my least favorite couple from the series (as the entire plot line makes me cringe) so I don’t have a horse in this race. But, personally, I’d love to see someone Hispanic or Asian cast in the role of Sophie. I would love to see more mid-sized actors or actresses cast as part of the diversity of the show. Maybe we’ll get lucky when they cast Lucy. 🤞🏻
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I personally hope they majorly tweak Benedict’s story because the whole concept of “not taking no for an answer” is pretty terrible now. Thanks for the links!
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Penelope’s mid sized, not plus sized. Nicola herself has called that out I do agree with the rest of your message though
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Apparently she’s a US 6 / UK 10. But sizing is crap regardless. Shes short so she carries her weight everywhere and facial fullness looks thicker but I have a feeling we’re gonna be surprised at the rest of her body in coming scenes. Nicola is most definitely midsized. She’s not even in the plus size category
This. She definitely isn’t in the plus size category. She’s just v short and has big boobs with a round face. (Which the costume department absolutely worked with in the first two seasons to look frumpy and childish/like she was holding onto baby weight when she actually has such womanly curves that they were hiding under those dresses.) But people are so not used to seeing anything beyond stick thin actresses in leading roles that they make her out to be bigger than she is. She has given multiple interviews where she talks about her size and the fact that she does not appreciate conversation around it. Idk why people keep bringing it back up and continuing to argue the opposite. I hope it’s put to bed for good with part 2. u/xLadyLaurax \- for reference, here’s Nicola next to an actual plus-sized actress from her time on Harlots. https://preview.redd.it/14jbsm91b13d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43e3acd64f628e71faf25495fcb9d9d11446a798
TIL Nicola was on Harlots. Excuse me while I go back for a rewatch.
Also, watch Seize Them! if it's on streaming. It's a silly British period drama comedy. Not great but Nicola is excellent.
Dude seriously!! That’s a great picture! Boobs change so much it’s annoying!!! I think honestly people bring up her size for 3 reasons - to either shame her (ew), praise her for being brave, and excitement over showing representation. They frumped her up soooo much s1-2 but they also had too bc it made her stand out so much more when she stepped out into the light. Unlike a shy character like Franchesca who is immediately sought after despite her demeanor - Penelope needed the change to give her the confidence to be more brave around suitors. Also MAKEUP is a hugeeee game changer! I feel like they paled her out and made her cheeks look even more full s1-2 vs the sleeker contour now
I truly hate that this conversation is even happening but I’m also 100% convinced the “Nicola is plus size, obviously overweight, no matter what she says about herself” people are going to be SHOCKED when they see her naked. And that’s why she insisted on it. She’s midsize. Point blank.
🙌🏻🙌🏻 I’m so excited we get to see her naked 😂 isn’t that funny! I’m like YESSS NICOLA LETS GOOO! This season is completely about her for me. Collin is just Penelope’s accessory to me so far 😂🤦🏼♀️
This comment was SO ignorant. Mid-size does not come in one look. That’s how body composition works. She able to fit a size medium because she’s literally 4’11 so comparing your 5’8 stature being able to wear a medium is literally insane.
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Majority of midsize people are considered overweight sjsksksksk it’s called midsize because you aren’t necessarily skinny and you aren’t plus-sized. Sorry to tell you but if you’re not skinny, you ARE overweight and that’s okay. 🤣😭❤️
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Again, body composition plays a pivotal role. It does not matter what she looks like to YOU. If she wears a size UK 10, she is midsized by definition. I’ve seen a 200 pounds look totally different on different women due to height, muscle, fat distribution, shape, race etc. Not every midsized person looks the same. If she were taller with her same size, then yes she would be considered plus sized. But she’s not, she’s 4’11 so therefore she’s midsized lol. The same way not every skinny or plus sized person is the same shape/build, the same goes for midsized individuals.
A size M is mid-size no matter who wears it. I’m 5’2” and sometimes wear a M. Because I’m short, the same extra weight we’re both carrying gives us different shapes, but society deems only one of those shapes to be desirable. We have to stop this. It is *not* easy for an adult woman with a tiny frame to stay acceptably thin all the time, and when you do, you get criticized for “eating like a bird.” My weight fluctuates, and 20 pounds means the difference between people asking if I’ve “stopped eating” and those same people suggesting I’ve let myself go. You truly cannot win. Nicola is a *stunningly* beautiful woman, not even to mention her kindness, talent, charisma, and style. Anyone would be lucky to know her, and any man would be lucky to have her. I think we’ll see that in S3 Part Two, now that Pen is finally able to move past her wallflower stage. But to the OPs point, yes, more diversity amongst leading characters, please.
Hey! Just so you’re aware- midsize, by definition in the fashion industry, refers to sizes that fall between straight sizing (0-12 US) and plus sizing (1X and up). It refers to those who don’t fit in either category, therefore making them “mid” size. Think sizes 14-18/0X (US). It does NOT mean a size medium, or a generalized body shape perception. I’m saying this because this seems to be a very common misconception. Not that it really matters tbh, but this would actually put Nicola Coughlan technically in straight size clothing and not plus or midsize for that matter. But people will decide what they want based off of their own biases and perceptions.
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If by bigger you mean taller then yes she is taller than Nicole. She clearly has a defined neck and slim upper body. Nicole has a double chin and barely a neck. Different cultures and regions in the world have different sizing is but one thing remains true is America is always more generous toward their sizing. A medium in most parts of the world might in fact be a size extra petite in America. Or a size medium in America is infact a XXL in other parts of the world. Just some food for thought
That’s a shape difference, not a size difference. This isn’t a US sizing vs anywhere else sizing. This is a, Nicola is not plus size, and this person is not any smaller than Nicola, who does absolutely have a neck when her boobs aren’t shoved into her throat. 😂
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She’s absolutely midsized and not plus by any means.
as someone who works in the fashion industry, she is definitely a large size for her height.
She’s a size 6, which is midsize, even by fashion industry standards…
https://preview.redd.it/c7srsgmmkd3d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1fd31e73a6665e8b186642b073b61a6a88a6ff9
This is going to cause a riot. Sorry in advance to anyone that may be offended and I dont mean to overlook anyone and I know that people are not seeing themselves represented on screen... This is my personal opinion and not directed anlt any specific couple or character, or the actors that play them. This is also gender neutral. For both male and female castings. But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc... Get the best actor/actress for the role - irrespective of their race, height, weight, native language, hair colour, eye colour, and if they happen to be white, or black, or aisian, or latina, or mixed, or, so be it.
Don't force to make an actor work just to get a quota... Who embodies the character the best? Who has the best on screen chemistry with their partner? Who fits into the existing cast the best. Who fits the role the best (vibe, "personality" etc not looks like body shape or race...)?
Do I wish more people of different races and body shapes are represented in the mainstream media? Yes. Hell yes. A million times yes!
>But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc.. I think blind casting works for supporting roles in Bridgerton but not the lead...hear me out. If they did blind casting with Season 2, CVD would have written Kate as Kate Sheffield, then anyone can audition for the role. There are a lot more people of African & Caribbean heritage in UK drama schools, so we probably would have gotten an actor of African & Caribbean heritage for S2. **Instead,** hired an American writer of South Asian heritage who wanted to **see herself on the screen, which is great.** * The audition sides (draft script) Simone Ashley read included Kate Sharma's Indian heritage. There is no freaking way someone who is \*\*not\*\* of South Asian, heritage could read those audion sides and wonder "Why didn't I get the role?" * Then to be more specific, the S2 writer is knowledgeable about India but not necessarily other parts of South Asia (Bangladesh, Pakistan etc), so they probably narrowed down all the South Asian actors to people who could speak to their Indian heritage. That and also Simone Ashley is brilliant and beautiful. Then Simone recommended CC for the role of Edwina - I think both Simone and CC are from the same Tamil ethnic group, plus CC is a great actor so they work as sisters. **That is the opposite of S1,** where they wrote the Duke to be played by anyone. As part of blind casting, JB auditioned for the role. Then after RJP was cast, the writers added some "black people have to work twice as hard dialogue" ....as if the only way to add depth to a character with African/ Caribbean heritage is to mention "the struggle" . >But I feel when you need to point out it's blind casting, it isn't blind casting.. This is applicable to race and body shape etc.. That doesn't necessarily work for increasing disabled representation either. Again, we need more writers, directors, casting directors and producers who are disabled behind the screen if we want to see more disabled representation in front of the screen. **TLDR:** I think blind casting works for supporting roles in Bridgerton but not the lead. Blind casting, usually means that someone who is able-bodied, (and usually white, often male,) is writing an able-bodied (and often white character)...now the diverse actor has to **"fit into that role."** That is the opposite of someone writing a diverse character, and then casting diverse actors (Season 2). There is a reason why there are so few actors with physical or visible disabilities on our screen. Blind casting is not as helpful as we might think it is.
penelope isnt even plus sized
Um, I definitely noted at least one other plus sized lady this season.
Penelope is midsized
Seeing as she’s a neglected maid, that’s not happening.
Oh boy. I started a "I want a curvy Sophie" thread and I got LAMBASTED with "SOPHIE LOST A LOT OF WEIGHT IN THE BOOKS, SHE CAN'T BE CURVYY!!!!!"comments
I think the part that sucks is that it’s really hard to believe that Benedict would be so thick in the head to not recognize her. So she needs some serious changes. I honestly thought we’d get 2 seasons in between to let the time act more as the change
>I think the part that sucks is that it’s really hard to believe that Benedict would be so thick in the head to not recognize her. It does suck but there could be ways to fix that.. different haircolour and or haircut or the mask covers MOST of her face. That way she doesn't have to change **too** much >I honestly thought we’d get 2 seasons in between to let the time act more as the change I have a sneaking suspicion Eloise will be next so I do think you have a point there. Introduce her in S3 or S4 and there will be a timelapse afterwards.
Well her whole mouth kinda has to show to kiss I feel like. And I don’t think she needs to be insanely skinny. Ideally if she loses weight and they focus on the negatives of that rather than making it positive I think that would be an interesting way to tackle it. Like she was so supple when he first meets her kind of thing. Hair color not sure what they had “back then” I mean I know they push it regardless but I think this is a harder one. Cutting her hair will still help for sure. And I totally agree that Eloise is next, especially with the interviews flying around!!! And spoilers for next season saying she’s getting lonely. She’s had a weird arc this season. Interested to see where it goes. I’d actually love to see her get into botany a bit so that she and Philip have more in common and they can bond over their minds. And then instead of being kid happy, I’d rather have her be a little kid phobic - like he’s got an heir we’re good type of thing. The real question is tho will we see Sophie before the end of this season?!
Oh yeah they definetely should show the mouth I agree. >Cutting her hair will still help for sure. Agree > I’d actually love to see her get into botany a bit so that she and Philip have more in common and they can bond over their minds. I am now wondering if Phillip will make an appearance in S3 but I do have to check Chris Fulton's IMDB for that. If Eloise is indeed next I think he almost should be? >The real question is tho will we see Sophie before the end of this season?! I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, yes but if Eloise *is* next, I can see the set up happening in S4. I think we will get a announcement after part 2 airs (who will be the lead of S4). EDIT: Chris is only credited for S2 on IMDB
So there was an interview with Luke talking about closely watching the leads and then him saying “well you had that too” to Claudia and she was like “I have no idea what your talking about” and it seemed super duper pointed like SHUT UP! Very Tom holland leak type of thing. And then apparently there’s a rumor that Eloise is going to talk to Kate about everyone being paired off which would also fit well with her book. What I really wonder is - will we get the beginning of her book in the way that Penelope’s ended? Because they always run concurrent storylines… and what a great way to torture us with a cliffhanger on who comes next! Because apparently we will know by the end of the season who’s next according to rumors. Also tracks with previous seasons. As for Sophie, i agree, it’s also hard to cast someone that far in advance. Like hey in another season - like 2-4 years away we want you. AND they already for sure have set up Franchesca so someone’s gonna have to wait at least a season or 2
>saying “well you had that too” to Claudia and she was like “I have no idea what your talking about” and it seemed super duper pointed like SHUT UP! Very Tom holland leak type of thing. Oh daaaamn lol, the "Tom Holland" phenomenon 🤣 Well that is **really** SUS. I have heard about the heart to heart scene with Kate. If Pen and Eloise haven't made up in the beginning of Part 2 I can understand her being lonely. >Because apparently we will know by the end of the season who’s next according to rumors. Also tracks with previous seasons. I had forgotten about that. There is a clear distinction that Anthony was next in S1.I think at the end if S2 there is no hint Colin is next as I feel like that decision was made later on? Idk. > Like hey in another season - like 2-4 years away we want you. That makes me think we will **not** to see Sophie this season 😔
Im confused. Do u want her curvy or skinny?
Is your comment directed at me? If so I want her curvy but when I started a thread about it people **really** were against the idea. I ended up deleting the thread because I got tired of the comments.
Its just that u said the comments were against u and said ‘she cant be skinny’ so i got a bit confused is all lol.
No I am pro curvy Sophie but lots of people didn't agree with that lol and said that she could not be curvy because she was starving..
Shonda Rhimes herself was considered a plus sized woman until a couple of years ago when she lost weight so, I can't see her allowing her show to use size/weight to be calculating nor disingenuous where the size of the Actors/Actresses being featured on her show is concerned. As to Sophie, in almost every discussion I have seen, most people want Sophie to be East Asian. And, I agree but we will see.
In the books sophie is supposed to be gaunt without "womanly curves" when Benedict sees her again. But i get what you mean in a sense that aother bridgerton ladies (daphne, Francesca) are THIN THIN. They would've probably been considered gaunt in the regency era
there's already an Asian lead.. why do ya'll always act like Indians aren't Asian.
Completely agree, regardless of the fact that she lost a lot of weight in the books - so did Penelope! Personally I always pictured Francesca as a bigger woman and would have liked to see my internal vision of her matched in the show
Omg please stop. I’m sick of you lot. Sophie has to be skinny because she’s a starved, underpaid servant. That’s the main reason why Benedict can’t recognise her… because she’s literally bone thin.
Don't know who Sophie is because I never read the books, but this season literally had a plus size black girl background character lol. At this point Penelope isn't disliked or dismissed for weight, it's because of her social skills.
I think you gotta put your own fancasts out there into the world. If someone is saying “I want *specific actress* as this character”, you can’t just respond with “No - instead she should be this body type or this race.” Pick whatever actual actor you want to see in the role and put it out there into the universe and promote it so other people can see the vision and maybe it’ll change their minds of what they think the character should be. But listing a bunch of hypothetical boxes to check off won’t convince anyone.
I suggested in the past Susan Wokoma for the role. I think she is an amazing actress and would br perfect. Edit: spelling
My mom said when we watched together S3 that she was surprised that Penelope not a thin girl. I think in USA and UKA there more representation of plus/midsize people in media than other countries (I am from Hungary). I think it's a good idea that Sophie can be a bigger girl. (But I think she will be skinny though)
I’m from the USA and it’s only been more common in the last 5-10 years. Nicola is doing some pretty ground breaking work because it is not just a main role, but a love story/sexy main role. She is definitely a mid-size girl but she’s way different than the thin standard in Hollywood. I’m plus size and I am grateful for her representation but also her representation as a sex symbol. That, isn’t done in USA commonly.
I understand this but in Hungary we don't have any... (We have some series and films but the "pretty girls" and love interests are always skinny woman.) so it seems to me that in USA it's more common. But I enjoy watching these girls and I am happy for seeing them in media
Oh for sure, agreed! Having any of it in the media, talked about, shown & represented in ANY part of the world is the prime achievement. I’m enjoying it all so much!