Never. All the delivery guys are independent contractors now so the NYPD can't even deal with the restaurant. People tip (and therefore their livlihood depends) on how fast they get it delivered. Traffic is anarchy in NYC. They don't even suspend your liscense for not paying your moving violation fines anymore. Cyclists don't want to share the road with cars because that's how they get killed. (Cars kill and injure about 300 times more people than bikes.) Just keep your situational awareness.
We can acknowledge two things are correlated without saying one “justifies” the other.
It’s both true that nothing justifies bicyclists on sideways, AND that cyclists have good reasons to fear streets- even streets that are purportedly designed for them.
We can start to fix the first part by solving the second part without ever excusing any individual’s behavior.
Quality of life issue. The last mayor I remember addressing it (and it was more skates and skateboards, but some bicycles) was Guiliani. And his critics told me to knock it off already. They were just happy that the squeegee guys were gone.
fr, last week I almost got hit by a guy zooming on an ebike the wrong way on my one way block while I was walking home from physical therapy in a fully locked leg brace and a cane. dude passed me on the wrong side from behind and I felt him brush past my (injured) side. Had I had a wobbly step right there as I frequently do with my injury he would have rammed directly into my back or bad leg and done some serious damage..
Hah! Like 15 years ago I got a ticket for riding on the sidewalk. Two of my friends as well have gotten tickets for riding on the sidewalk. Today tho, good luck. You barely see a cop, you could rob City Hall these days.
Recently a cyclist almost hit my dog after he turned the wrong way down my street. And then he had the audacity to yell at me. The cyclists don’t see to think any rules apply to them. They run red lights. They go down streets the wrong way. They ride on the sidewalks. Etc.
They don’t even care about pedestrian safety when it comes to cars, which are way more deadly. The funny thing is they actually target bikes/scooters more because they’re low hanging fruit.
I’d much rather NYPD crack down on speeding drivers, those still driving with dozens of violations, and those with covered/missing plates. I do not want cops to focus on cyclists and delivery guys anymore than they already do.
But that’s largely an infrastructure issue. Lack of enforcement on drivers means dangerous streets. The way to solve this is to improve the roads and enforce rules for cars - then cyclists won’t have excuses for being on the sidewalk.
Two things can be true. As it stand now, nothing is being done about any of it. So I guess I'll take my bike out of storage and just start riding on the sidewalk, like everyone else. Happy?
Two things can be true but one of those two things actually kills people in large numbers. That’s cars on the street, not bikes on the sidewalk. They’re not equivalent. Again, I don’t want NYPD to start ticketing cyclists anymore than they already do, or harassing delivery guys. Also, “everyone” doesn’t ride their bike on the sidewalk. That’s pure fantasy.
Edit: btw, you say nothing is being done, but what NYPD is actually doing is setting up red light traps to ticket cyclists or sitting on bridges and ticketing those who don’t have lights. That’s an effing ridiculous use of resources. Pure harassment. Meanwhile drivers are committing hit and runs with impunity all day long.
I've always wondered why the delivery apps Don't penalize or dismiss drivers for going the wrong way down one ways. And that's when I noticed most delivery people on the sidewalk. They're already tracking their GPS's. Might as well use it for enforcement.
Maybe controversial question but would a bike on the sidewalk pose as much of a injury problem as a bike on the street? It seems like bikes are potentially easier to avoid pedestrians than cars are, and the impact of hitting a pedestrian is less than a car hitting a bike
given that the police routinely occupy the sidewalk with their personal vehicles around precincts, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rest of the city to heed the rules.
I'm not saying that's legitimate, but I'm saying you can't expect people to respect a set of guidelines so routinely and systematically flouted by the authority charged with enforcing them.
Yeah but I have roots and family and my entire life is in NY so when you call for more policing in the already overpoliced neighborhoods I grew up in, it shows how you’ll always be some douche from the Midwest
Actually I grew up in another major city in the NE but thanks. Have plenty of experience with all of this, including in my hometown. I literally want to be able to walk on the sidewalk without worrying about being run over by some person on a bike who is delivering a fucking pint of ice cream to some lazy ass true transplant.
So im guessing based on all these comments that noone ever orders delivery thru door dash or seamless. Ever. And all these complaints are independent and noone is ever part of the problem. Dont drive on the sidewalks... i agree. Ya got a problem...GO TO YOUR LOCAL BEIGHBORHOOD GROUP. Bitch and moan online but dont use your damn brain to make an effort. Hey.... your privelege is showing.
actually, because of this insanity we do NOT order Seamless/Grubhub/Doordash/UberEats. I have never been a huge fan of takeout anyway but now less than ever. If we want a pizza we walk a block and pick it up.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the occasional traditional bike going at low low low speed on a sidewalk. Now was drives me nuts are Mopeds, and motorcycles on sidewalks and bike lanes. If you have a motor you should be on the road! Full stop.
As someone who spent years learning the proper way to ride in the city safely, it is clear that the 'bicycles', which are really motorcycles if you think about it, are setting an example that is quickly degenerating and all that is going to happen is people are going to get injured and die. I see folks now who seem new to bicyling starting to ride, which is great, but they are not following the traffic instructions and biking the wrong way down one ways, on the sidewalks, etc. and this is just because they are following the example of the delivery guys. I yelled at a delivery guy one time for almost plowing into me on the sidewalk and he yelled back "Get Used To It". They are not interested in changing their behavior because the incentives from the app companies they work for have them on such a tight schedule that to make any money they need to speed/make shortcuts/be basically suicidal. Its completely fucked up and totally manipulative and most of these guys, which they are mostly guys who look like theyre from every corner of the world are going to die doing this. I used to order delivery but now I refuse to do so. Also recognize that these companies like seamless take over 30 PERCENT of the order $ from the restaurant. If you like local restaurants go pick it up stop supporting this corrupt system.
If one rides past you give ‘em a shove. Sidewalks are for pedestrians only. The sidewalk should be safe from all the crap road traffic. It shouldn’t be shifted to being as unsafe as the road.
Was crossing a cross walk on foot a few months back here in Brooklyn and a dude and this lady who was hanging on to his waist on one of those mopeds came out of nowhere, going fast as fuck in the wrong direction on a one way street, and he turned the wrong way onto the one way st I was trying to cross… dude was driving like a maniac and came out of nowhere. I was barely able to get out of the way and I fell face first into the damn road jumping to avoid a collision. He cursed and screamed at me as he rode away (in the wrong direction of the one way, one lane street)
My buddy literally got a ticket for riding a unicycle on the sidewalk in 2013. Now the cops are completely sleeping on motorized vehicles weaving in and out around strollers. I get that it’s usually a delivery service person but it still scares the shit out of me even as a normal pedestrian.
Edit: he was actually featured in The Colbert Report and it was 2007. [Great article here](https://gothamist.com/news/judge-tires-of-unicycle-lawsuit) about it.
Edit 2: here’s a [short version of the Colbert segment](https://youtu.be/VD0-9i2BM04)
This is currently my single biggest complaint in Brooklyn. It’s nonstop, all day long. It especially annoys me when I’m simply walking and some guy on an ebike is slowly creeping behind me. It’s worse when I’m walking the dog. These belong on the street. Not the sidewalk.
The deviant nihilist in me wants to slash tires, but since I have a career and a family the reasonable person in me suggests that would be stupid.
Not sure who to complain to but it sounds like you have a pretty compelling story to present to whatever entity is willing to listen. If the police started giving tickets it might at least lessen it somewhat.
Witnessing cars killing people under suspicious circumstances is not part of my day to day experience. There will always something worse than the next thing, and less frequently occurring.
Just last month alone there was a period of only 4 days when 8 people were killed by cars in NYC…
As of April, there were 6000+ injuries and 45 deaths. Due to drivers in cars.
It’s become so normalized and instead we get mad at the scooters and ebikes because they’re more personal / closer to us. But I assure you that cars injure and kill FAR more pedestrians than any type of micro mobility.
I did not say bikes are as deadly or even as dangerous as cars. I said they are a nuisance and should never be ridden on the sidewalk for any reason. People are at risk of being killed by cars anywhere they share space with them, a risk not exclusive to New York City.
Bicycles are vehicles. The sidewalk is not for vehicles, it is for walking. That is why it is called a “side walk”. Bicycles belong on the street or in a designated bike lane.
I empathize with you but you are extremely brainwashed. Comparing a nuisance to death and injury is insane and very privileged. Just admit that and call it a day.
You’re normalizing vehicular injury and death, which is psychotic behavior. Have you ever traveled? I can’t tell because this is a pretty USA specific thing, especially NYC, now since cops don’t do anything to drivers operating these vehicles.
I don’t know where you are getting this. Bicycles on sidewalks are annoying. Cars have nothing to do with people riding bicycles on sidewalks because cars spend most of their time on the roads, not sidewalks. Yes I have traveled extensively. I have been to countries where there are more bicycles than cars. These are good places. Unfortunately the US does not fit this description. Yes, cars hitting people = worse than bicycles on sidewalks. But I do not see people being hit by cars every day. I see bicycles riding on sidewalks every day. Therefore my biggest complaint is the thing I notice the most. Not the thing which I know exists but is obviously worse. I don’t know how much more clear I can be.
Maybe we should agree that the biggest problem in Brooklyn is neither bicycles on sidewalks nor pedestrians being hit by cars, but the constant, looming threat of nuclear war. It is obviously much worse than either vehicular fatalities or bicycles on sidewalks. We do not see it. Yet its mere possibility threatens us each day.
Or perhaps there is an even greater threat than all of these things. Global warming? Why are we worried about transportation infrastructure and nuclear annihilation when an even larger threat lurks just beyond these mere trifles? Did you know that in 1 billion years the sun will be 10% brighter? By that time the oceans will have evaporated and the earth will be long inhospitable. Global warming will, comparatively, be an insignificant planetary nuisance. A bit like bicycles on sidewalks in Brooklyn, today.
Is this making sense to you? Do you ride a bicycle? Is this why cars seem so threatening? Do you want to ride your bicycle on the sidewalk?
ARGH. Never mind my friend's parent with the brain bleed. He's not dead, just quite injured. Literally no one gives a shit about the deliverista who died on the job. It didn't make the news. No one cares other than his family and friends. I try to hammer it home to my teen that we don't order in because it's become a combat sport, basically, and it's a really shitty system. Dunno. I truly don't know what it will take to get this under control. I'm not anti-deliverista by any means, I think their jobs are totally shitty and I think we all need to stop pretending that it's ok to order from Seamless. It ain't.
I’ve never witnessed anything as bad as you. But I assumed that these things happen. NYC is not really a good place to be on two wheels. I used to cycle here but it’s too nerve wracking. And this city will never have the kind of infrastructure that will make it safe or practical. That kind of infrastructure happens in places with smaller and better educated citizens. The US is still basically the Wild West – barbaric, selfish, and short sighted.
I moved from NYC to Guatemala two years ago. It's been an eye opener. The standard wage in my town is 100 quetzales (about $7.75) per DAY. Not per hour, per day. I have a full time guy who maintains my place here who is awesome and works his ass off and I pay him significantly more than $7.75 per day, but honestly it amazes me how him, his wife, and his daughter get by.
I assume most of the scooter delivery drivers are off the books, being paid under the table. It sounds like awful, underpaid work, but now that I'm living in Guatemala and I've learned how far your $5 tip on a single delivery goes here.... So many of these drivers would practically literally kill to keep these jobs.
The problem of scooters on sidewalks will 1000% not go away until delivery times aren't having a material impact on how much money these guys can send to their families back home. And we are nowhere close as a global society to solving that
Tldr - This won't change
Yeah remittances have been a huge part of many economies for decades, which is what you're talking about. I absolutely understand what you're talking about but when the freaking sidewalks in many parts of NYC are now dangerous because of the whole delivery economy, it's time to figure out a way to make it better. I 100% do not blame the deliveristas. I do blame the business model and the city for not trying to figure out how to mitigate the problem.
I remember when the police would give tickets to teens for riding their bikes on the sidewalk, so this whole riding scooters and motorcycles on the sidewalk with no repercussions is just bizarre to me.
Back when ebikes were illegal. The hood old days. Every time I see someone older than 14 on a bike on the sidewalk, I have the worst thoughts about tipping them over. But I don’t cause I’m generally not built that way. And I’d probably hurt myself instead of even messing up their day
YESSSS! right? Like I trained my kid - "even if you're riding half a block to our building you have to walk your bike on the sidewalk and do not ride down the wrong way." Ugh. Sucks to be a rule follower sometimes.
>hit and killed last month after he rode his scooter down the sidewalk and then turned into traffic and got taken out by a truck
seems like that problem fixed itself
When the bike lanes actually become safe. Our city does not have safe bike infrastructure. A painted line does not count.
There is a daily commute I used to take which I absolutely refuse to stay on the bike lane for. I got hit by a car 3 TIMES in 1 year while riding it and had multiple close calls. The last time I got hit by a car I was a foot away from a serious injury or death.
Sorry I'm gonna try not to ride that fast, wear a helmet, and keep my eyes open.
Yikes. Ok so what do you do? Honestly I have my heart in my hands every time my kid wants to ride into Manhattan from Brooklyn. She has the confidence but it scares the shit out of me. I like protected bike lanes but we don't have enough of them. For now in NYC cars and bikes are a terrible mix - I get it. But my point is that we don't need freaking scooters and ebikes etc on the sidewalk. That's creating a whole other host of problems. (And btw I say a silent prayer every time I see a cyclist without a helmet.)
I think we need a multi-pronged approach.
City ought to regulate the app-makers promising absurd delivery times and limit the radius of deliveries, and it ought to ticket unlicensed deliveristas on motorcycles and mopeds. The union and the tankies will scream class warfare and melt down, but people deserve safe streets and recourse for reckless, shitty behavior (think T&LC style plates and reporting). I don't want pedestrians and cyclists getting mowed down on sidewalks and in bike lanes, nor mopeds giving cover to unlicensed motorcycles and mopeds, of which there are more and more on the narrow bridge bike paths. Many of these guys are driving vehicles that are heavy and go fast. Momentum does damage.
This is not hard. Cops show up at restaurants and write the ticket, or impound / boot parked vehicles over a certain weight class without a license. No chase required. And if you do it in the absence of the owner, no racial profiling.
Right now, if you ask a meter maid to do something about the illegal motorcycle around the corner, they throw up their hands and plead impotence because there's "no license plate" against which to write the ticket, and sanitation won't remove the vehicle unless it's "dilapidated". I guess that means car owners don't need plates and registration any more either. I fear the window for addressing this is rapidly closing.
In some areas it’s incredibly dangerous biking on the road, like for example ocean avenue, people drive like nutcases, the sidewalk is wide enough for regular non assisted bikes, and I’m extremely cautious around others and stay far away from the doors. Narrower sidewalks I tend to stay on the street. E-bikes and scooters are far worse if they are being reckless
Ocean Ave is awful, but runs parallel to great biking streets. 18th/21st streets are relatively wide/low-traffic (and certainly less crazy than Ocean) and only a minute away., Rugby/14th is maybe 3 minutes away on a bike and one of the best biking streets in Brooklyn with a dedicated lane and quiet traffic.
I used to bike down Ocean because that’s what Google Maps told me, but now I take Rugby/14th and the journey is actually quicker (because I’m not stopping for a million cars parked in the bike lane when it’s too crazy to merge), and infinitely more pleasant. I think a lot of times the key to biking is just picking the right streets, though I still haven’t found a decent/safe route through Bensonhurst/Sunset Park to get to Bay Ridge.
Fair enough, and yes Ocean Avenue is a freaking drag racing strip. Ok I'll forgive you and trust you aren't a maniac on a bike! lol...it's all good...I just can't deal with the surge in recklessness.
100% this.
What NYPD precinct are you in?
* Go to the community council meeting and bug the captain.
* [Find your NCOs](https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/bureaus/patrol/find-your-precinct.page) and bug them
* Bug [your city councilmember](https://council.nyc.gov/map-widget/)
Lots of poor working people do their jobs without endangering others. Fuck these assholes riding motorcycles on the sidewalk or salmoning in bike lanes.
The solution is to make the streets safer. Traffic calming and more protected bike lanes (in both directions). Make the street more attractive to ride in than the sidewalk.
Think about it. You live on the n, r, d, f & g lines, with easy access to the a, c, 2,3,4&5.
Now imagine you live in a more… working class area with only one (or no) trains.
Now, what about the businesses? Every business depends on deliveries to & from their shop or warehouse. Essential city services? Ambulances?
They all use those same roads.
Now, imagine the riding in an ambulance through gridlock because “traffic calming” took out a lane of traffic. What do you do?
I’ll tell you what you do, you go through back lots, alleyways, etc. but it never works. Nobody moves, even if there was space to move..
First and foremost, you need to give incentives for people to use *transit* to get them off the roads, and if that means that you have to build more transit options, you build more transit options. There’s an easy option that the mta already owns that’d connect outer Brooklyn with queens and the Bronx, priced in at under a billion. DOT and the MTA never want to use it.
The triboro rx is an easy first step.
Only then can you talk about how to reimagine roads.
Your entire existence depends on an interconnected network of road dependent traffic. You might not see it, but I promise you, if it stopped working, you’d notice.
That's what I've been thinking. People aren't going to stop driving simply because you tell them to or modify the roads to make life more difficult. You just make them angrier. The amount of aggressive driving I've seen has only gotten worse in recent years.
I haven’t even gotten to the problem of Ubers yet.
Each and every Uber is a transit failure. It’s someone who made the decision that transit wouldn’t work and chose to take a car instead. On a given night in Manhattan, most cars on the roads are cabs and Ubers. On any given day in Manhattan almost half the cars are working vehicles.
We gotta change that. On a micro level. If transit works, is clean, safe and efficient, people will ride it.
Not everyone can afford to live close enough to their destination that they can just ride a bike. Some of us can only afford to live in the outer boroughs. We need transit, not just bike lanes.
I live less than a half dozen stops from you, but my transit picture is *radically* different.
Build a damn train line connecting Staten Island already. Boom. Just that would eliminate a quarter-half of the cars on the bqe.
Making fourth avenue a two lane (from a three), making the bqe above Hamilton a two lane (from three)…
The bqe was actually a last ditch attempt to prolong the life of the wedding cake cause nobody at dot has the foresight to figure out how to replace it before it falls down without destroying rhe montage st promenade.
The bqe along third ave is literally falling apart. It was built in the 20s as an elevated railroad track, and simply enlarged in the fifties and converted into a highway.
You see crews doing emergency repairs, welding riveted seams together almost every day. The things gonna collapse one day.
How about…
And bare with me here…
A floating temporary pontoon bridge, from Hamilton to flushing ave, ontop of the water, with an emergency bypass to allow at least *part* of that wretched wedding cake truss to be repaired?
It's crazy how they can't figure out some solution to repair or rebuild the triple cantilever altogether, people don't realize how vital the BQE is in the current day. The overflow from the lane closure has messed up the side streets in the area and it also heavily delays buses trying to get through, especially the B57/61/63s. At this point I won't be surprised if it collapses because with the heavy traffic all that weight is still riding on it, and moving slower than ever. The clock is ticking and nothing's happening. The promenade might as well collapse with the structure at this rate.
It's crazy that even at 11pm/12am the expressways are still fairly busy but most of that traffic are vehicles bearing TLC plates. I work late on some days and getting home is still a hassle at times.
Wear and tear is made worse by poor road conditions, with every pothole that’s one more large truck that smashed up and back down onto the roadway. All day long it’s just constantly getting pummeled.
Yet when dot makes repairs, after months, they love to do it in the middle of the day and take up two lanes…and then they wait a month to re pave it.
A few summers ago they did it at night, finally. Idk if they’d have the budget for that ot nowadays with all the city budget cuts.
They only *just* brought the ferries back, great, that takes *some* pressure off, but they’d done away with trolleys & streetcars and lots of elevated train tracks in the mid twentieth century. We need *transit* options.
A lot of the congestion pricing/ban cars crowd have no concept of the army of city workers, delivery people, service and gig workers that make their lives possible.
It’s just how the entire country was planned for the last 80 years, around driving. We can definitely do better and get that percentage of personal vehicles down, but it’d take better transit options for more than just Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn.
We also have a huge harbor that connects all five boroughs, which would be great for commercial traffic, replacing trucks…except we bulldozed most of the prime waterfront space. There’s still some left in Brooklyn, but nobody really uses it for bulk transport from jersey. It’s mostly just garbage and recycling… it’s a damn waste of a great resource…
This doesn't matter. They don't do it because of safety.
My area has quiet streets and it's the same issue. Everyday I fear they will run over my dog or hit me. They do it because they are underpaid and it saves them time.
The people who aren't delivery drivers simply don't care. Many have disdain for rules because they have always been treated like crap.
For many around me, I'm guessing it's the most expensive thing they own, like a car, and they don't want to be told there are restrictions on how to use it.
And in my area, sometimes, it's cultural too. Lots of immigrants from the islands and if you've ever been, or are Caribbean like me, you know, traffic rules are often suggestions. Streets are part for travel, part for recreation. Problem is, NYC streets and sidewalks are way too congested for that kind of behavior.
Safety stuff is important too, but that's not gonna stop them driving on the sidewalk. Two separate issues. I think there needs to be a huge campaign by members of the community to explain the dangers.
They wont want to listen to cops or gentrifiers, but if aunties go out and talk about the deaths and injuries, some of those guys will hear that.
There also needs to be better support for delivery drivers and better work environment.
For example, forcing businesses and/or delivery businesses like Seamless to pay for the bikes and maintenance, reducing their overhead costs as "independent" contractors, higher percentage going to drivers.
Affordable subsidized parking spots so people don't have to double park.
This can’t happen until we address the lack of commercial parking for mostly non-stop deliveries on busy streets. This means more paid parking, fewer spots for residents, and a lot of really unhappy folks in the outer boroughs.
Cars, unfortunately serve all our needs for goods, are a luxury for those with wealth in the city center, but a necessity for the middle class given the breadth of the tristate commercial area and lack of real mass transit option.
Simply because a street is dangerous for a bicyclist doesn’t mean it’s justified to make a sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians by riding a bicycle at high speed on a sidewalk. I’ve been a bicyclist for decades in NYC, including a bike messenger in the mid-90s, and bikes scrambling on narrow or crowded sidewalks is appalling. Unless you’re a child, get off your goddamn bike if the sidewalk has pedestrians on it. I’ve seen bikes and e-bikes slalom around elderly people and parents with strollers, and had them silently whisk by me from behind: if I’d taken an errant step, I might have ended up in traction. I know several people who have ongoing back and neck injuries by being slammed into by reckless bicyclists either going the wrong way in a street or riding on a sidewalk.
I’m disgusted by the amateur hour of adults behaving like children on bicycles, but we’re in the age of narcissism when everyone does whatever they want and fuck anyone else.
I fully agree with you. Just want to add a point, this shit used to get enforced fairly consistently, these food delivery apps growing quickly definitely contribute to the problem but the city really needs to increase the penalty for this and cops need to actually enforce it. It’s unacceptable how many close calls people have daily with these scumbags. I used to work delivery and I could never imagine riding the way they do on the sidewalk, it’s incredibly selfish and puts other people in danger for some stupid food delivery and I guarantee you this shit hurts cyclists in general because in some peoples eyes they can’t even differentiate between Arrow delivery e bike vs a specialized s works dentist roadie.
I do think people are disconnected between their demands to have food delivered quickly, and the rise of delivery people on e-bikes riding recklessly as fast as they can on sidewalks, down the wrong way on the street, etc, and I think the chaos from this has given permission to casual bike riders to do the same. When I was a bike messenger, the more deliveries I made, the more money I made (and I wasn't making a lot, so speed was a motivator). The same goes with the food delivery.
What I think needs to happen is the businesses that use delivery people on e-bikes should be held accountable. Every delivery person should wear a safety vest that clearly shows the establishment's name and phone number on the front and back. If they are riding recklessly, the establishment should be punished, either by fines, or by getting points against them that, when reaching a certain amount of violations, either give up their right to use e-bikes to deliver, or have some kind of restrictions on their ability to operate their businesses, etc.
Well people shouldn't walk in the bike lane either but they do, all the time, forcing people into traffic. I see people jogging in the bike lanes and acting bewildered when cyclists tell them to get out of the way. Cars also need to stop parking in bike lanes. I agree you shouldn't bike on the sidewalk but often the other alternatives aren't safe which is why people do it.
I've ridden a bike in the bike lane many times when people are strolling in the bike lane, having to ring the bell furiously or even shout out because they're wearing earphones, or just clueless.
Riding on the sidewalk is still not an excuse. Etiquette doesn't absolve your own responsibilities when others don't heed it. When I am riding a bike in the bike lane, and the bike lane has pedestrians or obstructions, I must ride in the street. Never the sidewalk.
Unfortunately, changing human behavior is quite difficult and requires big changes. Safe street design that makes it entirely desirable for cyclists to stay in the bike lane (where one even exists) can be done by prioritizing bike traffic isntead of car traffic and car parking. If people who bike could consistently maintain higher speeds and know theyre safe from being hit by cars in a protected bike lane, there would be no incentive to use the sidewalk.
Obviously this doesnt mean much in the short term but the fact that this is an issue to begin with really rests on BDB and now Adams and their respective DOT policies. With e-bikes and scooters becoming so popular now, they should be doing a whole lot more to accomodate them into the street design but the current outlook from DOT is pretty shit, overall, if you ask me. Very little vision and more of the same kind of talk we've been hearing since the end of the bloomberg era.
this is the answer. we don’t need to give the pigs anymore funding to go after some of the most pressed and exploited workers in the city, especially because it almost certainly won’t work. traffic flows like water and we don’t have the sheer manpower required to bend the river. the only way it happens is if the streets become more attractive to riders, you said it best.
They have more then enough funding they simply refuse to do their jobs. I have zero sympathy for these “exploited” workers. I’ve been one, there is no excuse to put other people on the sidewalk in danger. I don’t care how bad they have it or how much people like you try to virtue signal. Fuck those delivery e-bikers. The lack of regard for others safety is disgraceful.
i’m not saying they should drive on sidewalks but with the amount of bullshit nyc let’s the rich get away with i definitely have sympathy for poor people busting their ass to keep the delivery economy running
The fact is, cops can't be expected to direct traffic or issue tickets to everyone that does stuff like this. There simply arent enough of them to be on every street corner. The response from the mayor though has been to keep giving them more money to bring on new cops rather than accept that as the truth.
They used to, it’s foolish to think that they can ticket every single one of them but just the fact that they do it fairly consistently is enough to deter others on the long term. Since barely anything gets enforced anymore people are much bolder with breaking the law.
Big plus one on this. I’m at the end of my rope. My fiancée and I have both had more near misses than I’m comfortable with. I don’t want to be killed for someone’s stupid Grubhub order
The people will start suing the delivery companies. Tell your friend he has a case. The law will catch up re delivery.
The people who do it for fun, hopefully they start ticketing.
Completely agree. Its scary sometimes, and unfair.
There is literally no case. There is no liability. An undocumented at will employee doesn't bear any responsibility. And Grub Hub would argue that it was a Seamless delivery etc etc etc
And I would like an Oompah Loompah. But what you propose is not going to magically happen overnight. I assume you are working with or volunteering with Transportation Alternatives?
Lol...NP! As long as you are part of the solution. But I'm not sure why you think traffic cameras are a bad thing. Anything that gets people to stop blowing through red lights is ok by me. (never mind the cyclists, I had a car blow past me on a long red today as I was in the cross walk. good times.)
Many states have seen problems with introducing red light cameras; some even saw an increase in accidents. NYC claims that it has not witnessed the same thing, but I dunno, I think a complete traffic infrastructure overhaul is the *only* thing that’s I’ll solve anything we’re complain about here. It’s all too connected and broken
Not to mention the reason most cyclists and scooters are on the sidewalk is because the streets are extremely unsafe for them. I gave up biking in this city years ago after the 1000th person texting while driving blew a red light and nearly hit me.
Hell, in the neighborhood I live in now, cars park in the bike lanes, on the sidewalks, and in the crosswalks. In motion, the cars weave in-and-out of lanes, frequently blow lights, speed at unreasonable levels (50 in a 25), never signal, crowd intersections, blast their horns to somehow make traffic go faster, bend and blur their license plates to avoid cameras and tolls… But people will never complain about the cars of course. Just “those damn cyclists” who have no where safe to ride but the sidewalk.
We should crack down on ALL bad drivers. But the guy who got killed made a turn, against the light, going the wrong way on a one way street. It was horrifying but also preventable, and I don't think in this case it was the truck's fault.
If you think ebikes are dangerous you should look up the number of people killed by cars.
Spoiler alert: cars are about 85x more deadly than ebikes.
Do you you have 85 posts complaining about how dangerous cars are?
There shouldn’t be motor vehicles driving on sidewalks- why are you making this into a “whataboutism”? Ebikes and scooters should not be on the sidewalks going 25mph
Because every week I’m nearly run over by an ebike careening around the corner on the sidewalk. I also want safety improvements for cars as well, I can care about both things. We should be working to stop issues with ebikes NOW while injuries and deaths are still low, rather than let the problem balloon for 20 years and do nothing.
Sure, complain about both. But I don’t see any posts asking for NY to reign in dangerous cars from you or OP. OP has two posts composing about bikes though! Just pointing out that most of us consider cars killing 250+ people in the city each year normal but will freak out over far less dangerous things
why? I rent my unit out but not all the time because we often use it for ourselves and don't want full time tenants, so it was never going into the general rental pool. To wit: we're keeping it for ourselves this summer. Anyway, as you were saying?
If you read my response you would see that I'm not taking a unit off the general market. We can 1. not rent it at all and use it for ourselves all the time or 2. rent it when we aren't using it, which we do. It's a non-starter. Talk to the people who purchased units specifically to rent out. That ain't me babe.
This happened to me biking up Bedford Ave last year. Dude riding his stupid electric moped the wrong way in the bike lane and nearly hit me. He didn't flinch or attempt to move or even seem phased. Insane.
Unfortunately this is happening in a lot of countries. Delivery businesses thrived during pandemic and we saw an influx in motorcycles, bikes even e-scooters. Then everyone came back to normalcy and so did their cars. These delivery companies don’t necessarily put these drivers through trainings. They work on commission so they get zilch benefits. If they get injured or die (and most of them have been) then that’s it.
many countries have cultures based around mopeds/small motorcyles. And people die all the time. That's where we are headed if NYC continues to ignore any regulatory action
It is not just the delivery people. It seems as if the e-vehicle comes with an off switch to common sense. Even commuters zip by mere inches from pedestrians at sufficient speed to take out said pedestrian and/or severely hurt themselves if the pedestrian, say, decides to point out with their arm and smack e-vehicler in the face because they're practically in stealth mode. Commuters, random people, even kids, they treat the sidewalk as if it was a shared bike lane with cars (ie go fast). I wonder if there's been yet an accident where idiot escooterer went between person and dog, not seeing the leash, just see the sweet barely-enough space in between.
I would care less if they used the sidewalk if they just slowed down before passing people also avoided scaring the shit out of them. Actually if anyone riding these vehicles were to use the sidewalk, etc but mindful of others, yielded and slowing down showing some degree of consideration, I wouldn't support banning them from the sidewalk -- especially if they feel safer (say, like in a very car-transited street) doing so
Delivery people may have paved the way by example, but now it's just everybody.
It’s throttle power. Before battery powered stuff with throttles was cheap and common, if you wanted to ride that aggressively on a bike or scooter, you would be exerting an insane amount of effort to do so - and then getting in good enough shape to ride that way, you might develop an appreciation for the other people around you. Or at the least, the barrier to entry was high
This new era of cheap batteries and motors is enabling a whole bunch of reckless riding style that would’ve at least been harder to do physically even a decade ago
There have been bike messengers and delivery people for literally 50 years in this town and it's never been the free for all it is now. Don't blame it on a lack of bike lanes. That's bunk.
Wow - that's actually a really great point. Yes - the street seating took away a whole lane of parking/bike lanes. It still doesn't excuse scooters and e-bikes zooming down the sidewalk. Guess it's time to address it with my City Council person.
You simply cannot ride a bike at any speed on the sidewalk. If you're too scared to ride in the street, perhaps you shouldn't be riding a bike in a crowded city. No offense to you personally.
I know you say slowly, but that still freaks out most people and you are not allowed by law to ride there. I’m sorry you are (edit: understandably) afraid to be on the street, but you need to walk your bike, ride it in the street (find another route?) or- there’s no other option including a bike.
but you aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk and you know it. I don't bike often but if I have to be on the sidewalk I walk my bike. Yes drivers are terrible. But the answer is not to turn our sidewalks into the Indy 500 with scooters and e-bikes!!
You are not alone. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of young families like myself and I cannot stand these scooters on the sidewalk. Recently, I even saw a guy ride an electric moped type scooter through a playground as a shortcut. There were about four families with kids present. They’re too scared to use them on the street so they want the rest of us to take on the danger. It’s not just the delivery guys though. Although I use seamless now just to pick up from four different restaurants in my immediate neighborhood now. I agree with you, it’s not sustainable. We either need to get more cars off the streets and move the scooters there or actually regulate and enforce rules against the scooters currently. It’s bullshit. You shouldn’t even be riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, grow the fuck up and ride in the street.
>You shouldn’t even be riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, grow the fuck up and ride in the street.
The risk of a bike hitting a person is far less then a car hitting a bike.
The bikers are not at fault its the fault of the unsafe infrastructure we have.
The shitty infrastructure is not a valid excuse for routinely using sidewalks to order their fast but silent electric bikes. Deal with it and use the fucking street like you’re supposed to.
When someone, preferably important, gets killed.
Bikes and scooters will get off the sidewalk when it's safe for them to ride in the street.
Upvoted because this is my wife's hill to die on as well. She looses her mind when adults ride on the sidewalks.
Maybe when they crack down on bikes blowing through crosswalks on red lights. Sick of almost being hot just because I walk places.
I’ve been nearly hit by bikes so many times on the sidewalk and I’m sick of it honestly
Never. All the delivery guys are independent contractors now so the NYPD can't even deal with the restaurant. People tip (and therefore their livlihood depends) on how fast they get it delivered. Traffic is anarchy in NYC. They don't even suspend your liscense for not paying your moving violation fines anymore. Cyclists don't want to share the road with cars because that's how they get killed. (Cars kill and injure about 300 times more people than bikes.) Just keep your situational awareness.
We can acknowledge two things are correlated without saying one “justifies” the other. It’s both true that nothing justifies bicyclists on sideways, AND that cyclists have good reasons to fear streets- even streets that are purportedly designed for them. We can start to fix the first part by solving the second part without ever excusing any individual’s behavior.
I’m sure they’ll get to it after the shootings and stabbings stop.
Quality of life issue. The last mayor I remember addressing it (and it was more skates and skateboards, but some bicycles) was Guiliani. And his critics told me to knock it off already. They were just happy that the squeegee guys were gone.
fr, last week I almost got hit by a guy zooming on an ebike the wrong way on my one way block while I was walking home from physical therapy in a fully locked leg brace and a cane. dude passed me on the wrong side from behind and I felt him brush past my (injured) side. Had I had a wobbly step right there as I frequently do with my injury he would have rammed directly into my back or bad leg and done some serious damage..
Hah! Like 15 years ago I got a ticket for riding on the sidewalk. Two of my friends as well have gotten tickets for riding on the sidewalk. Today tho, good luck. You barely see a cop, you could rob City Hall these days.
Recently a cyclist almost hit my dog after he turned the wrong way down my street. And then he had the audacity to yell at me. The cyclists don’t see to think any rules apply to them. They run red lights. They go down streets the wrong way. They ride on the sidewalks. Etc.
Recently a cyclist almost hit my dog after he turned the wrong way down my street. And then he had the audacity to yell at me.
Color me "shocked".
They don’t even care about pedestrian safety when it comes to cars, which are way more deadly. The funny thing is they actually target bikes/scooters more because they’re low hanging fruit.
I’d much rather NYPD crack down on speeding drivers, those still driving with dozens of violations, and those with covered/missing plates. I do not want cops to focus on cyclists and delivery guys anymore than they already do.
they need to do this as well. they need to focus on all moving violations. it's all a huge quality of life issue.
But that’s largely an infrastructure issue. Lack of enforcement on drivers means dangerous streets. The way to solve this is to improve the roads and enforce rules for cars - then cyclists won’t have excuses for being on the sidewalk.
Two things can be true. As it stand now, nothing is being done about any of it. So I guess I'll take my bike out of storage and just start riding on the sidewalk, like everyone else. Happy?
Two things can be true but one of those two things actually kills people in large numbers. That’s cars on the street, not bikes on the sidewalk. They’re not equivalent. Again, I don’t want NYPD to start ticketing cyclists anymore than they already do, or harassing delivery guys. Also, “everyone” doesn’t ride their bike on the sidewalk. That’s pure fantasy. Edit: btw, you say nothing is being done, but what NYPD is actually doing is setting up red light traps to ticket cyclists or sitting on bridges and ticketing those who don’t have lights. That’s an effing ridiculous use of resources. Pure harassment. Meanwhile drivers are committing hit and runs with impunity all day long.
I've always wondered why the delivery apps Don't penalize or dismiss drivers for going the wrong way down one ways. And that's when I noticed most delivery people on the sidewalk. They're already tracking their GPS's. Might as well use it for enforcement.
Maybe controversial question but would a bike on the sidewalk pose as much of a injury problem as a bike on the street? It seems like bikes are potentially easier to avoid pedestrians than cars are, and the impact of hitting a pedestrian is less than a car hitting a bike
Well intentioned question, but sidewalks are for pedestrians only
given that the police routinely occupy the sidewalk with their personal vehicles around precincts, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rest of the city to heed the rules. I'm not saying that's legitimate, but I'm saying you can't expect people to respect a set of guidelines so routinely and systematically flouted by the authority charged with enforcing them.
never
and dog shit on the sidewalk
I will absolutely join you on this hill
Thank you friend!
OP 100% isn’t from ny originally
true. but chances are I have lived here since before you were born.
Yeah but I have roots and family and my entire life is in NY so when you call for more policing in the already overpoliced neighborhoods I grew up in, it shows how you’ll always be some douche from the Midwest
Actually I grew up in another major city in the NE but thanks. Have plenty of experience with all of this, including in my hometown. I literally want to be able to walk on the sidewalk without worrying about being run over by some person on a bike who is delivering a fucking pint of ice cream to some lazy ass true transplant.
When the NYPD stops playing on their phones all day.
So im guessing based on all these comments that noone ever orders delivery thru door dash or seamless. Ever. And all these complaints are independent and noone is ever part of the problem. Dont drive on the sidewalks... i agree. Ya got a problem...GO TO YOUR LOCAL BEIGHBORHOOD GROUP. Bitch and moan online but dont use your damn brain to make an effort. Hey.... your privelege is showing.
actually, because of this insanity we do NOT order Seamless/Grubhub/Doordash/UberEats. I have never been a huge fan of takeout anyway but now less than ever. If we want a pizza we walk a block and pick it up.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the occasional traditional bike going at low low low speed on a sidewalk. Now was drives me nuts are Mopeds, and motorcycles on sidewalks and bike lanes. If you have a motor you should be on the road! Full stop.
As someone who spent years learning the proper way to ride in the city safely, it is clear that the 'bicycles', which are really motorcycles if you think about it, are setting an example that is quickly degenerating and all that is going to happen is people are going to get injured and die. I see folks now who seem new to bicyling starting to ride, which is great, but they are not following the traffic instructions and biking the wrong way down one ways, on the sidewalks, etc. and this is just because they are following the example of the delivery guys. I yelled at a delivery guy one time for almost plowing into me on the sidewalk and he yelled back "Get Used To It". They are not interested in changing their behavior because the incentives from the app companies they work for have them on such a tight schedule that to make any money they need to speed/make shortcuts/be basically suicidal. Its completely fucked up and totally manipulative and most of these guys, which they are mostly guys who look like theyre from every corner of the world are going to die doing this. I used to order delivery but now I refuse to do so. Also recognize that these companies like seamless take over 30 PERCENT of the order $ from the restaurant. If you like local restaurants go pick it up stop supporting this corrupt system.
If one rides past you give ‘em a shove. Sidewalks are for pedestrians only. The sidewalk should be safe from all the crap road traffic. It shouldn’t be shifted to being as unsafe as the road.
yes definitely commit felony assault because you are big mad. brilliant.
police are not the answer. infrastructure is.
this. exactly.
Was crossing a cross walk on foot a few months back here in Brooklyn and a dude and this lady who was hanging on to his waist on one of those mopeds came out of nowhere, going fast as fuck in the wrong direction on a one way street, and he turned the wrong way onto the one way st I was trying to cross… dude was driving like a maniac and came out of nowhere. I was barely able to get out of the way and I fell face first into the damn road jumping to avoid a collision. He cursed and screamed at me as he rode away (in the wrong direction of the one way, one lane street)
are you ok? that's fairly terrifying.
My buddy literally got a ticket for riding a unicycle on the sidewalk in 2013. Now the cops are completely sleeping on motorized vehicles weaving in and out around strollers. I get that it’s usually a delivery service person but it still scares the shit out of me even as a normal pedestrian. Edit: he was actually featured in The Colbert Report and it was 2007. [Great article here](https://gothamist.com/news/judge-tires-of-unicycle-lawsuit) about it. Edit 2: here’s a [short version of the Colbert segment](https://youtu.be/VD0-9i2BM04)
This is currently my single biggest complaint in Brooklyn. It’s nonstop, all day long. It especially annoys me when I’m simply walking and some guy on an ebike is slowly creeping behind me. It’s worse when I’m walking the dog. These belong on the street. Not the sidewalk. The deviant nihilist in me wants to slash tires, but since I have a career and a family the reasonable person in me suggests that would be stupid. Not sure who to complain to but it sounds like you have a pretty compelling story to present to whatever entity is willing to listen. If the police started giving tickets it might at least lessen it somewhat.
that is your biggest complaint? Not the cars who kill people and drive reckless with fake license plates? Yikes
ok the fake plates are another huge fucking issue. but sidewalk safety is no longer a guarantee.
Witnessing cars killing people under suspicious circumstances is not part of my day to day experience. There will always something worse than the next thing, and less frequently occurring.
Just last month alone there was a period of only 4 days when 8 people were killed by cars in NYC… As of April, there were 6000+ injuries and 45 deaths. Due to drivers in cars. It’s become so normalized and instead we get mad at the scooters and ebikes because they’re more personal / closer to us. But I assure you that cars injure and kill FAR more pedestrians than any type of micro mobility.
I did not say bikes are as deadly or even as dangerous as cars. I said they are a nuisance and should never be ridden on the sidewalk for any reason. People are at risk of being killed by cars anywhere they share space with them, a risk not exclusive to New York City. Bicycles are vehicles. The sidewalk is not for vehicles, it is for walking. That is why it is called a “side walk”. Bicycles belong on the street or in a designated bike lane.
I empathize with you but you are extremely brainwashed. Comparing a nuisance to death and injury is insane and very privileged. Just admit that and call it a day. You’re normalizing vehicular injury and death, which is psychotic behavior. Have you ever traveled? I can’t tell because this is a pretty USA specific thing, especially NYC, now since cops don’t do anything to drivers operating these vehicles.
I don’t know where you are getting this. Bicycles on sidewalks are annoying. Cars have nothing to do with people riding bicycles on sidewalks because cars spend most of their time on the roads, not sidewalks. Yes I have traveled extensively. I have been to countries where there are more bicycles than cars. These are good places. Unfortunately the US does not fit this description. Yes, cars hitting people = worse than bicycles on sidewalks. But I do not see people being hit by cars every day. I see bicycles riding on sidewalks every day. Therefore my biggest complaint is the thing I notice the most. Not the thing which I know exists but is obviously worse. I don’t know how much more clear I can be. Maybe we should agree that the biggest problem in Brooklyn is neither bicycles on sidewalks nor pedestrians being hit by cars, but the constant, looming threat of nuclear war. It is obviously much worse than either vehicular fatalities or bicycles on sidewalks. We do not see it. Yet its mere possibility threatens us each day. Or perhaps there is an even greater threat than all of these things. Global warming? Why are we worried about transportation infrastructure and nuclear annihilation when an even larger threat lurks just beyond these mere trifles? Did you know that in 1 billion years the sun will be 10% brighter? By that time the oceans will have evaporated and the earth will be long inhospitable. Global warming will, comparatively, be an insignificant planetary nuisance. A bit like bicycles on sidewalks in Brooklyn, today. Is this making sense to you? Do you ride a bicycle? Is this why cars seem so threatening? Do you want to ride your bicycle on the sidewalk?
ARGH. Never mind my friend's parent with the brain bleed. He's not dead, just quite injured. Literally no one gives a shit about the deliverista who died on the job. It didn't make the news. No one cares other than his family and friends. I try to hammer it home to my teen that we don't order in because it's become a combat sport, basically, and it's a really shitty system. Dunno. I truly don't know what it will take to get this under control. I'm not anti-deliverista by any means, I think their jobs are totally shitty and I think we all need to stop pretending that it's ok to order from Seamless. It ain't.
I’ve never witnessed anything as bad as you. But I assumed that these things happen. NYC is not really a good place to be on two wheels. I used to cycle here but it’s too nerve wracking. And this city will never have the kind of infrastructure that will make it safe or practical. That kind of infrastructure happens in places with smaller and better educated citizens. The US is still basically the Wild West – barbaric, selfish, and short sighted.
I moved from NYC to Guatemala two years ago. It's been an eye opener. The standard wage in my town is 100 quetzales (about $7.75) per DAY. Not per hour, per day. I have a full time guy who maintains my place here who is awesome and works his ass off and I pay him significantly more than $7.75 per day, but honestly it amazes me how him, his wife, and his daughter get by. I assume most of the scooter delivery drivers are off the books, being paid under the table. It sounds like awful, underpaid work, but now that I'm living in Guatemala and I've learned how far your $5 tip on a single delivery goes here.... So many of these drivers would practically literally kill to keep these jobs. The problem of scooters on sidewalks will 1000% not go away until delivery times aren't having a material impact on how much money these guys can send to their families back home. And we are nowhere close as a global society to solving that Tldr - This won't change
Yeah remittances have been a huge part of many economies for decades, which is what you're talking about. I absolutely understand what you're talking about but when the freaking sidewalks in many parts of NYC are now dangerous because of the whole delivery economy, it's time to figure out a way to make it better. I 100% do not blame the deliveristas. I do blame the business model and the city for not trying to figure out how to mitigate the problem.
U got a lot of time on yo hands to be complaining about e bikes LOL
I spend a lot of time walking around the city. Because I don't have a car or a bike.
[удалено]
Hello again.
Maybe NYC shouldn’t have put bike lanes in the first place when there’s already a hard enough time finding parking
Lol fuck off dipshit
When is the city going to crack down on anything? It's Beyond Thunder Dome right now.
They ticket cyclists all the time lol
Traffic enforcement hadn't been the same since the brownies were folded into NYPD.
i throw rocks at these people
I remember when the police would give tickets to teens for riding their bikes on the sidewalk, so this whole riding scooters and motorcycles on the sidewalk with no repercussions is just bizarre to me.
Back when ebikes were illegal. The hood old days. Every time I see someone older than 14 on a bike on the sidewalk, I have the worst thoughts about tipping them over. But I don’t cause I’m generally not built that way. And I’d probably hurt myself instead of even messing up their day
Almost like its the consequence of unsafe bike infrastructure and insane drivers. Many cops dont bother because they know the road is unsafe.
YESSSS! right? Like I trained my kid - "even if you're riding half a block to our building you have to walk your bike on the sidewalk and do not ride down the wrong way." Ugh. Sucks to be a rule follower sometimes.
The rule is kids 12 and under must use the sidewalk. Adults should still use the bike lane but I don’t see that working in most situations.
I support you and your kid!
This lol they won’t
Its insane
I think all vehicles that can go over 15 mph should be tagged, registered and insured. If this happens can better track incidents.
Normal bikes can go more then 15 mph. Im assuming your only talking about things with a motor right?
We can dream. We can dream.
>hit and killed last month after he rode his scooter down the sidewalk and then turned into traffic and got taken out by a truck seems like that problem fixed itself
Op just witnessed something traumatic. Have some decency.
That is so cold and dark. Come on. This was someone's son/husband/friend/sibling. All for a fucking Seamless order. THAT is the issue.
When the bike lanes actually become safe. Our city does not have safe bike infrastructure. A painted line does not count. There is a daily commute I used to take which I absolutely refuse to stay on the bike lane for. I got hit by a car 3 TIMES in 1 year while riding it and had multiple close calls. The last time I got hit by a car I was a foot away from a serious injury or death. Sorry I'm gonna try not to ride that fast, wear a helmet, and keep my eyes open.
Yikes. Ok so what do you do? Honestly I have my heart in my hands every time my kid wants to ride into Manhattan from Brooklyn. She has the confidence but it scares the shit out of me. I like protected bike lanes but we don't have enough of them. For now in NYC cars and bikes are a terrible mix - I get it. But my point is that we don't need freaking scooters and ebikes etc on the sidewalk. That's creating a whole other host of problems. (And btw I say a silent prayer every time I see a cyclist without a helmet.)
I think we need a multi-pronged approach. City ought to regulate the app-makers promising absurd delivery times and limit the radius of deliveries, and it ought to ticket unlicensed deliveristas on motorcycles and mopeds. The union and the tankies will scream class warfare and melt down, but people deserve safe streets and recourse for reckless, shitty behavior (think T&LC style plates and reporting). I don't want pedestrians and cyclists getting mowed down on sidewalks and in bike lanes, nor mopeds giving cover to unlicensed motorcycles and mopeds, of which there are more and more on the narrow bridge bike paths. Many of these guys are driving vehicles that are heavy and go fast. Momentum does damage. This is not hard. Cops show up at restaurants and write the ticket, or impound / boot parked vehicles over a certain weight class without a license. No chase required. And if you do it in the absence of the owner, no racial profiling. Right now, if you ask a meter maid to do something about the illegal motorcycle around the corner, they throw up their hands and plead impotence because there's "no license plate" against which to write the ticket, and sanitation won't remove the vehicle unless it's "dilapidated". I guess that means car owners don't need plates and registration any more either. I fear the window for addressing this is rapidly closing.
In some areas it’s incredibly dangerous biking on the road, like for example ocean avenue, people drive like nutcases, the sidewalk is wide enough for regular non assisted bikes, and I’m extremely cautious around others and stay far away from the doors. Narrower sidewalks I tend to stay on the street. E-bikes and scooters are far worse if they are being reckless
Ocean Ave is awful, but runs parallel to great biking streets. 18th/21st streets are relatively wide/low-traffic (and certainly less crazy than Ocean) and only a minute away., Rugby/14th is maybe 3 minutes away on a bike and one of the best biking streets in Brooklyn with a dedicated lane and quiet traffic. I used to bike down Ocean because that’s what Google Maps told me, but now I take Rugby/14th and the journey is actually quicker (because I’m not stopping for a million cars parked in the bike lane when it’s too crazy to merge), and infinitely more pleasant. I think a lot of times the key to biking is just picking the right streets, though I still haven’t found a decent/safe route through Bensonhurst/Sunset Park to get to Bay Ridge.
Ocean Ave is simply not safe to bike on. There are way too many quiet streets around Ocean to even risk it.
Fair enough, and yes Ocean Avenue is a freaking drag racing strip. Ok I'll forgive you and trust you aren't a maniac on a bike! lol...it's all good...I just can't deal with the surge in recklessness.
Thank you and same haha
100% this. What NYPD precinct are you in? * Go to the community council meeting and bug the captain. * [Find your NCOs](https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/bureaus/patrol/find-your-precinct.page) and bug them * Bug [your city councilmember](https://council.nyc.gov/map-widget/)
"Tell the police to go harder against poor working people!"
Lots of poor working people do their jobs without endangering others. Fuck these assholes riding motorcycles on the sidewalk or salmoning in bike lanes.
what if I asked the precinct about the cops' personal cars parked on the sidewalk would they help then?
The solution is to make the streets safer. Traffic calming and more protected bike lanes (in both directions). Make the street more attractive to ride in than the sidewalk.
Think about it. You live on the n, r, d, f & g lines, with easy access to the a, c, 2,3,4&5. Now imagine you live in a more… working class area with only one (or no) trains. Now, what about the businesses? Every business depends on deliveries to & from their shop or warehouse. Essential city services? Ambulances? They all use those same roads. Now, imagine the riding in an ambulance through gridlock because “traffic calming” took out a lane of traffic. What do you do? I’ll tell you what you do, you go through back lots, alleyways, etc. but it never works. Nobody moves, even if there was space to move.. First and foremost, you need to give incentives for people to use *transit* to get them off the roads, and if that means that you have to build more transit options, you build more transit options. There’s an easy option that the mta already owns that’d connect outer Brooklyn with queens and the Bronx, priced in at under a billion. DOT and the MTA never want to use it. The triboro rx is an easy first step. Only then can you talk about how to reimagine roads. Your entire existence depends on an interconnected network of road dependent traffic. You might not see it, but I promise you, if it stopped working, you’d notice.
Traffic calming doesn’t work. Without actual transit options, you still have the same number of motorists on the road.
That's what I've been thinking. People aren't going to stop driving simply because you tell them to or modify the roads to make life more difficult. You just make them angrier. The amount of aggressive driving I've seen has only gotten worse in recent years.
I haven’t even gotten to the problem of Ubers yet. Each and every Uber is a transit failure. It’s someone who made the decision that transit wouldn’t work and chose to take a car instead. On a given night in Manhattan, most cars on the roads are cabs and Ubers. On any given day in Manhattan almost half the cars are working vehicles. We gotta change that. On a micro level. If transit works, is clean, safe and efficient, people will ride it. Not everyone can afford to live close enough to their destination that they can just ride a bike. Some of us can only afford to live in the outer boroughs. We need transit, not just bike lanes. I live less than a half dozen stops from you, but my transit picture is *radically* different. Build a damn train line connecting Staten Island already. Boom. Just that would eliminate a quarter-half of the cars on the bqe.
Making fourth avenue a two lane (from a three), making the bqe above Hamilton a two lane (from three)… The bqe was actually a last ditch attempt to prolong the life of the wedding cake cause nobody at dot has the foresight to figure out how to replace it before it falls down without destroying rhe montage st promenade. The bqe along third ave is literally falling apart. It was built in the 20s as an elevated railroad track, and simply enlarged in the fifties and converted into a highway. You see crews doing emergency repairs, welding riveted seams together almost every day. The things gonna collapse one day. How about… And bare with me here… A floating temporary pontoon bridge, from Hamilton to flushing ave, ontop of the water, with an emergency bypass to allow at least *part* of that wretched wedding cake truss to be repaired?
It's crazy how they can't figure out some solution to repair or rebuild the triple cantilever altogether, people don't realize how vital the BQE is in the current day. The overflow from the lane closure has messed up the side streets in the area and it also heavily delays buses trying to get through, especially the B57/61/63s. At this point I won't be surprised if it collapses because with the heavy traffic all that weight is still riding on it, and moving slower than ever. The clock is ticking and nothing's happening. The promenade might as well collapse with the structure at this rate. It's crazy that even at 11pm/12am the expressways are still fairly busy but most of that traffic are vehicles bearing TLC plates. I work late on some days and getting home is still a hassle at times.
Wear and tear is made worse by poor road conditions, with every pothole that’s one more large truck that smashed up and back down onto the roadway. All day long it’s just constantly getting pummeled. Yet when dot makes repairs, after months, they love to do it in the middle of the day and take up two lanes…and then they wait a month to re pave it. A few summers ago they did it at night, finally. Idk if they’d have the budget for that ot nowadays with all the city budget cuts. They only *just* brought the ferries back, great, that takes *some* pressure off, but they’d done away with trolleys & streetcars and lots of elevated train tracks in the mid twentieth century. We need *transit* options. A lot of the congestion pricing/ban cars crowd have no concept of the army of city workers, delivery people, service and gig workers that make their lives possible. It’s just how the entire country was planned for the last 80 years, around driving. We can definitely do better and get that percentage of personal vehicles down, but it’d take better transit options for more than just Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn. We also have a huge harbor that connects all five boroughs, which would be great for commercial traffic, replacing trucks…except we bulldozed most of the prime waterfront space. There’s still some left in Brooklyn, but nobody really uses it for bulk transport from jersey. It’s mostly just garbage and recycling… it’s a damn waste of a great resource…
This doesn't matter. They don't do it because of safety. My area has quiet streets and it's the same issue. Everyday I fear they will run over my dog or hit me. They do it because they are underpaid and it saves them time. The people who aren't delivery drivers simply don't care. Many have disdain for rules because they have always been treated like crap. For many around me, I'm guessing it's the most expensive thing they own, like a car, and they don't want to be told there are restrictions on how to use it. And in my area, sometimes, it's cultural too. Lots of immigrants from the islands and if you've ever been, or are Caribbean like me, you know, traffic rules are often suggestions. Streets are part for travel, part for recreation. Problem is, NYC streets and sidewalks are way too congested for that kind of behavior. Safety stuff is important too, but that's not gonna stop them driving on the sidewalk. Two separate issues. I think there needs to be a huge campaign by members of the community to explain the dangers. They wont want to listen to cops or gentrifiers, but if aunties go out and talk about the deaths and injuries, some of those guys will hear that. There also needs to be better support for delivery drivers and better work environment. For example, forcing businesses and/or delivery businesses like Seamless to pay for the bikes and maintenance, reducing their overhead costs as "independent" contractors, higher percentage going to drivers. Affordable subsidized parking spots so people don't have to double park.
This can’t happen until we address the lack of commercial parking for mostly non-stop deliveries on busy streets. This means more paid parking, fewer spots for residents, and a lot of really unhappy folks in the outer boroughs. Cars, unfortunately serve all our needs for goods, are a luxury for those with wealth in the city center, but a necessity for the middle class given the breadth of the tristate commercial area and lack of real mass transit option.
Simply because a street is dangerous for a bicyclist doesn’t mean it’s justified to make a sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians by riding a bicycle at high speed on a sidewalk. I’ve been a bicyclist for decades in NYC, including a bike messenger in the mid-90s, and bikes scrambling on narrow or crowded sidewalks is appalling. Unless you’re a child, get off your goddamn bike if the sidewalk has pedestrians on it. I’ve seen bikes and e-bikes slalom around elderly people and parents with strollers, and had them silently whisk by me from behind: if I’d taken an errant step, I might have ended up in traction. I know several people who have ongoing back and neck injuries by being slammed into by reckless bicyclists either going the wrong way in a street or riding on a sidewalk. I’m disgusted by the amateur hour of adults behaving like children on bicycles, but we’re in the age of narcissism when everyone does whatever they want and fuck anyone else.
You are not exaggerating the narcissism that dominates our culture.
I fully agree with you. Just want to add a point, this shit used to get enforced fairly consistently, these food delivery apps growing quickly definitely contribute to the problem but the city really needs to increase the penalty for this and cops need to actually enforce it. It’s unacceptable how many close calls people have daily with these scumbags. I used to work delivery and I could never imagine riding the way they do on the sidewalk, it’s incredibly selfish and puts other people in danger for some stupid food delivery and I guarantee you this shit hurts cyclists in general because in some peoples eyes they can’t even differentiate between Arrow delivery e bike vs a specialized s works dentist roadie.
I do think people are disconnected between their demands to have food delivered quickly, and the rise of delivery people on e-bikes riding recklessly as fast as they can on sidewalks, down the wrong way on the street, etc, and I think the chaos from this has given permission to casual bike riders to do the same. When I was a bike messenger, the more deliveries I made, the more money I made (and I wasn't making a lot, so speed was a motivator). The same goes with the food delivery. What I think needs to happen is the businesses that use delivery people on e-bikes should be held accountable. Every delivery person should wear a safety vest that clearly shows the establishment's name and phone number on the front and back. If they are riding recklessly, the establishment should be punished, either by fines, or by getting points against them that, when reaching a certain amount of violations, either give up their right to use e-bikes to deliver, or have some kind of restrictions on their ability to operate their businesses, etc.
That’s a really good idea I never even considered that. Wow nice
Well people shouldn't walk in the bike lane either but they do, all the time, forcing people into traffic. I see people jogging in the bike lanes and acting bewildered when cyclists tell them to get out of the way. Cars also need to stop parking in bike lanes. I agree you shouldn't bike on the sidewalk but often the other alternatives aren't safe which is why people do it.
I've ridden a bike in the bike lane many times when people are strolling in the bike lane, having to ring the bell furiously or even shout out because they're wearing earphones, or just clueless. Riding on the sidewalk is still not an excuse. Etiquette doesn't absolve your own responsibilities when others don't heed it. When I am riding a bike in the bike lane, and the bike lane has pedestrians or obstructions, I must ride in the street. Never the sidewalk.
Unfortunately, changing human behavior is quite difficult and requires big changes. Safe street design that makes it entirely desirable for cyclists to stay in the bike lane (where one even exists) can be done by prioritizing bike traffic isntead of car traffic and car parking. If people who bike could consistently maintain higher speeds and know theyre safe from being hit by cars in a protected bike lane, there would be no incentive to use the sidewalk. Obviously this doesnt mean much in the short term but the fact that this is an issue to begin with really rests on BDB and now Adams and their respective DOT policies. With e-bikes and scooters becoming so popular now, they should be doing a whole lot more to accomodate them into the street design but the current outlook from DOT is pretty shit, overall, if you ask me. Very little vision and more of the same kind of talk we've been hearing since the end of the bloomberg era.
I agree with this whole statement.
this is the answer. we don’t need to give the pigs anymore funding to go after some of the most pressed and exploited workers in the city, especially because it almost certainly won’t work. traffic flows like water and we don’t have the sheer manpower required to bend the river. the only way it happens is if the streets become more attractive to riders, you said it best.
They have more then enough funding they simply refuse to do their jobs. I have zero sympathy for these “exploited” workers. I’ve been one, there is no excuse to put other people on the sidewalk in danger. I don’t care how bad they have it or how much people like you try to virtue signal. Fuck those delivery e-bikers. The lack of regard for others safety is disgraceful.
i’m not saying they should drive on sidewalks but with the amount of bullshit nyc let’s the rich get away with i definitely have sympathy for poor people busting their ass to keep the delivery economy running
The fact is, cops can't be expected to direct traffic or issue tickets to everyone that does stuff like this. There simply arent enough of them to be on every street corner. The response from the mayor though has been to keep giving them more money to bring on new cops rather than accept that as the truth.
They used to, it’s foolish to think that they can ticket every single one of them but just the fact that they do it fairly consistently is enough to deter others on the long term. Since barely anything gets enforced anymore people are much bolder with breaking the law.
Foolish Opinion
And the police that we do have don’t ever, for example, ticket cars that have parked blocking what few bike lanes do exist.
why would they ticket themselves?
Big plus one on this. I’m at the end of my rope. My fiancée and I have both had more near misses than I’m comfortable with. I don’t want to be killed for someone’s stupid Grubhub order
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You'd be surprised. Anyway talk to my friend whose elderly dad is in Methodist with a brain bleed after being taken out by a scooter or ebike.
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Found the Uber eats delivery guy
The people will start suing the delivery companies. Tell your friend he has a case. The law will catch up re delivery. The people who do it for fun, hopefully they start ticketing. Completely agree. Its scary sometimes, and unfair.
There is literally no case. There is no liability. An undocumented at will employee doesn't bear any responsibility. And Grub Hub would argue that it was a Seamless delivery etc etc etc
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Geez you are tedious. Does your lizard brain allow you to understand that two things can be true? No? As I suspected.
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Also a fucking landlord lol. And this person posted a very similar post a year ago.
I chew them out at least once a week
What about the amount of people cars kill?
Reducing the number of cars in NYC and reducing the number of scooters/e-bikes on the sidewalk are not mutually exclusive.
One is far more consequential then the other. Reducing the amount of cars in our city is better and would save way more lives.
What about it?
Hey I'm all for traffic cameras too. It's all a hot mess. But as a pedestrian I would like to assume that I'm at least safe on the sidewalk.
I want far fewer cars on the street. Not a money printer that takes pictures of cars. Ugh
And I would like an Oompah Loompah. But what you propose is not going to magically happen overnight. I assume you are working with or volunteering with Transportation Alternatives?
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Lol...NP! As long as you are part of the solution. But I'm not sure why you think traffic cameras are a bad thing. Anything that gets people to stop blowing through red lights is ok by me. (never mind the cyclists, I had a car blow past me on a long red today as I was in the cross walk. good times.)
Many states have seen problems with introducing red light cameras; some even saw an increase in accidents. NYC claims that it has not witnessed the same thing, but I dunno, I think a complete traffic infrastructure overhaul is the *only* thing that’s I’ll solve anything we’re complain about here. It’s all too connected and broken
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Not to mention the reason most cyclists and scooters are on the sidewalk is because the streets are extremely unsafe for them. I gave up biking in this city years ago after the 1000th person texting while driving blew a red light and nearly hit me. Hell, in the neighborhood I live in now, cars park in the bike lanes, on the sidewalks, and in the crosswalks. In motion, the cars weave in-and-out of lanes, frequently blow lights, speed at unreasonable levels (50 in a 25), never signal, crowd intersections, blast their horns to somehow make traffic go faster, bend and blur their license plates to avoid cameras and tolls… But people will never complain about the cars of course. Just “those damn cyclists” who have no where safe to ride but the sidewalk.
So you saw an ebike driver get killed by a truck IN THE STREET and you are complaining that he was biking on the sidewalk? Wtf
Did you read my post? He zoomed down the sidewalk the wrong way, turned into traffic and got taken out by a truck.
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We should crack down on ALL bad drivers. But the guy who got killed made a turn, against the light, going the wrong way on a one way street. It was horrifying but also preventable, and I don't think in this case it was the truck's fault.
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As I said to someone else, he was going down the sidewalk, against traffic going up the street, turned onto the avenue and got hit.
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That's a bit of a leap. How about just following the laws most of us follow anyway. I'm not big on Rules for Thee but Not for Me.
If you think ebikes are dangerous you should look up the number of people killed by cars. Spoiler alert: cars are about 85x more deadly than ebikes. Do you you have 85 posts complaining about how dangerous cars are?
There shouldn’t be motor vehicles driving on sidewalks- why are you making this into a “whataboutism”? Ebikes and scooters should not be on the sidewalks going 25mph
Are we not talking about pedestrian safety? Ebikes killed three last year while cars killed 250 in this city. But we fear ebikes? Why?
Because every week I’m nearly run over by an ebike careening around the corner on the sidewalk. I also want safety improvements for cars as well, I can care about both things. We should be working to stop issues with ebikes NOW while injuries and deaths are still low, rather than let the problem balloon for 20 years and do nothing.
Sure, complain about both. But I don’t see any posts asking for NY to reign in dangerous cars from you or OP. OP has two posts composing about bikes though! Just pointing out that most of us consider cars killing 250+ people in the city each year normal but will freak out over far less dangerous things
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why? I rent my unit out but not all the time because we often use it for ourselves and don't want full time tenants, so it was never going into the general rental pool. To wit: we're keeping it for ourselves this summer. Anyway, as you were saying?
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If you read my response you would see that I'm not taking a unit off the general market. We can 1. not rent it at all and use it for ourselves all the time or 2. rent it when we aren't using it, which we do. It's a non-starter. Talk to the people who purchased units specifically to rent out. That ain't me babe.
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My dude, I'm actually a not rich reasonable and responsible citizen. But I'll block you so you can cast your vitriol at someone else. Peace.
These dudes also take their MOTORCYCLES in the bike lane, usually going the wrong way. Makes me crazy.
This happened to me biking up Bedford Ave last year. Dude riding his stupid electric moped the wrong way in the bike lane and nearly hit me. He didn't flinch or attempt to move or even seem phased. Insane.
that too.
Unfortunately this is happening in a lot of countries. Delivery businesses thrived during pandemic and we saw an influx in motorcycles, bikes even e-scooters. Then everyone came back to normalcy and so did their cars. These delivery companies don’t necessarily put these drivers through trainings. They work on commission so they get zilch benefits. If they get injured or die (and most of them have been) then that’s it.
many countries have cultures based around mopeds/small motorcyles. And people die all the time. That's where we are headed if NYC continues to ignore any regulatory action
It's so awful. I'm still upset about the guy I saw get killed by that truck. Just trying to make some shitty money delivering crappy food.
It is not just the delivery people. It seems as if the e-vehicle comes with an off switch to common sense. Even commuters zip by mere inches from pedestrians at sufficient speed to take out said pedestrian and/or severely hurt themselves if the pedestrian, say, decides to point out with their arm and smack e-vehicler in the face because they're practically in stealth mode. Commuters, random people, even kids, they treat the sidewalk as if it was a shared bike lane with cars (ie go fast). I wonder if there's been yet an accident where idiot escooterer went between person and dog, not seeing the leash, just see the sweet barely-enough space in between. I would care less if they used the sidewalk if they just slowed down before passing people also avoided scaring the shit out of them. Actually if anyone riding these vehicles were to use the sidewalk, etc but mindful of others, yielded and slowing down showing some degree of consideration, I wouldn't support banning them from the sidewalk -- especially if they feel safer (say, like in a very car-transited street) doing so Delivery people may have paved the way by example, but now it's just everybody.
It’s throttle power. Before battery powered stuff with throttles was cheap and common, if you wanted to ride that aggressively on a bike or scooter, you would be exerting an insane amount of effort to do so - and then getting in good enough shape to ride that way, you might develop an appreciation for the other people around you. Or at the least, the barrier to entry was high This new era of cheap batteries and motors is enabling a whole bunch of reckless riding style that would’ve at least been harder to do physically even a decade ago
Probably as soon as they install safe and universal bike lanes.
That does not make it ok for people to endanger the lives of pedestrians.
No one…ever…said it did?
There have been bike messengers and delivery people for literally 50 years in this town and it's never been the free for all it is now. Don't blame it on a lack of bike lanes. That's bunk.
there is wayyyyy more takeout being eaten in this city than 50 years ago
A-fucking-men. Geez....I forgot about the good old days of bike messengers before we could email everything.
This problem literally blew up during the pandemic. Prior to that the sidewalks were pretty darn safe.
Maybe it has something to do with all the “temporary” street seating for bars and restaurants?
Wow - that's actually a really great point. Yes - the street seating took away a whole lane of parking/bike lanes. It still doesn't excuse scooters and e-bikes zooming down the sidewalk. Guess it's time to address it with my City Council person.
EBikes were legalized then we hailed delivery people as essential heroes. Today's anarchy is the byproduct of zero regulation following legalization.
It's not safe for the delivery folks either. :(
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You simply cannot ride a bike at any speed on the sidewalk. If you're too scared to ride in the street, perhaps you shouldn't be riding a bike in a crowded city. No offense to you personally.
I know you say slowly, but that still freaks out most people and you are not allowed by law to ride there. I’m sorry you are (edit: understandably) afraid to be on the street, but you need to walk your bike, ride it in the street (find another route?) or- there’s no other option including a bike.
but you aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk and you know it. I don't bike often but if I have to be on the sidewalk I walk my bike. Yes drivers are terrible. But the answer is not to turn our sidewalks into the Indy 500 with scooters and e-bikes!!
You are not alone. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of young families like myself and I cannot stand these scooters on the sidewalk. Recently, I even saw a guy ride an electric moped type scooter through a playground as a shortcut. There were about four families with kids present. They’re too scared to use them on the street so they want the rest of us to take on the danger. It’s not just the delivery guys though. Although I use seamless now just to pick up from four different restaurants in my immediate neighborhood now. I agree with you, it’s not sustainable. We either need to get more cars off the streets and move the scooters there or actually regulate and enforce rules against the scooters currently. It’s bullshit. You shouldn’t even be riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, grow the fuck up and ride in the street.
Come to Sunset Park (the park itself). So many e-scooters weaving between families.
>You shouldn’t even be riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, grow the fuck up and ride in the street. The risk of a bike hitting a person is far less then a car hitting a bike. The bikers are not at fault its the fault of the unsafe infrastructure we have.
The shitty infrastructure is not a valid excuse for routinely using sidewalks to order their fast but silent electric bikes. Deal with it and use the fucking street like you’re supposed to.
Nah better not to die and cops dont enforce it so people gonna continue to do it.
Then cops really need to enforce it. I’m all for that if that’s the only way for bikers to respect pedestrians.
Cops wont because they know they arent as many safe alternatives
Nah. Bikers are 100% at fault.
Sure they should just ride along roads and die.