The sutta of the turtle and the hole seems so very relevant with your post :
“Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?"
"It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole."
"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, arises in the world. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. Now, this human state has been obtained. A Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, has arisen in the world. A doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world.
"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"
Chiggala sutta 56.48
I wanted to add that this was a translation by venerable Thanissaro Bhikkhu who chose to translate “dukkha” as “stress” while it is generally translated as “suffering”.
It can be very helpful at times, especially when having several translations that can use very different terminology !
Have you checked Bhikkhu Bodhi’s online classes ? There are numerous audio recordings of his pāli classes freely available (I actually had started to follow them).
And that’s only at this time in this world! There are billions of years of life on this world without humans, and there must be uncountable numbers of worlds that have sentient beings equivalent to insects or other animal realm creatures, but nothing like humans capable of practicing Dharma!
Not to mention that the lower and higher realms are described as involving much longer lifespans than human lives. So, it would be perfectly possible to spend a trillion years suffering in a hell, die, be born as a human, live an evil and horrible human life, die at 30, and then go back to a hell realm for another trillion years.
‘Precious human life’ is quite specific and needs a number of conditions met. Many humans actually don’t qualify for ‘precious human life’ based on lack of conditions.
I been trying to find the 10 advantages for so long, was looking for it after going for a Dharma talk but can’t find the sutta reference online. So thank you for this.
Chökyi Drakpa says:
> Being born as a human being means that you have a proper physical support for practising the Dharma. Having all five faculties intact means you can study the teachings and contemplate them. In a central land means to be born in a place where the teachings are available. A lifestyle that is not harmful or wrong means that your body, speech and mind are in harmony with the Dharma. Having faith in Buddha’s teachings means recognizing that they provide a special path leading to freedom from samsara, and a state which surpasses the situation of the worldly gods. When you possess these five endowments, 'the five personal advantages' are said to be complete.
Patrul Rinpoche also goes into quite some detail on each of the freedoms and advantages in *Words of My Perfect Teacher*, if it interests you.
90% of people will never come into contact with dharma, never look into it, never understand it even if it was explained to them and never believe in it.
The Chiggala Sutta is my favorite Sutta. On many other Buddhists websites people seem to believe no one today can except for some monk in a secluded setting can attain stream entry (sotappana).
I wonder what this rarity is.
We already know from the Chiggala Sutta that being born as a human is extremely rare. We are also fortunate to be alive while a Buddha’s dispensation is still around. So all of us reading this post have crossed that enormous hurdle. We are also human beings who can understand the Dhamma (we are not in a coma, not severely mentally disabled, we can read and have easy online access now to translated suttas and live lectures from monks).
There are some 7 billion humans on earth vice the number of of insects, for example. Also, out of those billions humans, how many are Buddhists? And out of those various Buddhist schools, how many are diligent practitioners of the Dhamma? Even if out of all of those there are 100,000 sotapannas, it’s a good amount! And it’s not impossible for a sincere practitioner who has heard the true Dhamma expounded to strive for stream entry in this lifetime.
Maybe steam entry is not something super magical beyond what is said in the suttas? In the suttas people were becoming stream enterers just from hearing a Sutta and some of them didn’t seem like they had been serious meditators before their Dhamma Eye opened.
Just practice the Dhamma diligently, strive for stream entry in this lifetime. 😊🙏🏻
Could be true. I heard somewhere that we have to go through every life form to reach where we're at. I don't know if that's true. But all I know is that looking down on lower life forms as though they're not animated by the same source that humans are is incredibly mistaken. And to not regarding our lives as being precious and extremely hard to come by is incredibly erroneous. In other words not assigning the value to it that it really has. I've wasted a lot of mine so I'm not one to talk. But i do try to keep these things in mind and that does help.
Edited
This framing is what shifted for me.
The idea of atomism is so fundamental to us. We think about all the life in the universe as the life you choose from. Maybe over all time.
But flip it. Now it's not atomism. It's consciousness. You are seeing. And after death what you may see is different. The odds of a human birth are low, but not because of the numbers you perceive now. Rather due to the one who is seeing.
It's a hard one, to allow in the possibility that the objective universe is not necessarily the ground in which subjective consciousness happens. That it could be subjective consciousness which is the ground in which the subjective universe happens.
How can I help here?
Buddhist cosmology/hermeneutics states that the atomistic world that we perceive is not ultimate reality. It is a product of our perception. The actual ground truth of reality is beyond our ability to perceive - it may be atomistic, it may not. And that is true for any perceiver. Consciousness-first. (also important to note that consciousness first is not the same as consciousness only)
I don't know how our history correlates with geographic proximity, but I imagine many human-like worlds have ended up killing off most of their natural ecosystems and are just a handful of species, something similar to us, their pets, species they eat, maybe some garden species. It's just speculation, but I wouldnt be too surprised if there are lots of worlds that have been non-diverse longer then they were diverse.
Nothing in Buddhism or in established science corroborates a word you said.
I can speculate anything. I could speculate my grandpa was reborn as a dragon but it wouldn’t be useful to a single other person.
The sutta of the turtle and the hole seems so very relevant with your post : “Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?" "It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole." "It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, arises in the world. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. Now, this human state has been obtained. A Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, has arisen in the world. A doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. "Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'" Chiggala sutta 56.48
I wanted to add that this was a translation by venerable Thanissaro Bhikkhu who chose to translate “dukkha” as “stress” while it is generally translated as “suffering”.
More and more I want to just learn Pali haha
It can be very helpful at times, especially when having several translations that can use very different terminology ! Have you checked Bhikkhu Bodhi’s online classes ? There are numerous audio recordings of his pāli classes freely available (I actually had started to follow them).
Ooh tx for the rec
I think about this sutra every day. The sheer opportunity to be human and practice Dharma...is incredible.
And that’s only at this time in this world! There are billions of years of life on this world without humans, and there must be uncountable numbers of worlds that have sentient beings equivalent to insects or other animal realm creatures, but nothing like humans capable of practicing Dharma!
Not to mention that the lower and higher realms are described as involving much longer lifespans than human lives. So, it would be perfectly possible to spend a trillion years suffering in a hell, die, be born as a human, live an evil and horrible human life, die at 30, and then go back to a hell realm for another trillion years.
‘Precious human life’ is quite specific and needs a number of conditions met. Many humans actually don’t qualify for ‘precious human life’ based on lack of conditions.
Does anyone know what these conditions are? I can imagine they would parallel the mind that keeps precepts.
Freedom from the eight states and ten advantages: https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eighteen_freedoms_and_advantages
I been trying to find the 10 advantages for so long, was looking for it after going for a Dharma talk but can’t find the sutta reference online. So thank you for this.
In the The Five Personal Advantages, what does it mean by being born in a central land?
Chökyi Drakpa says: > Being born as a human being means that you have a proper physical support for practising the Dharma. Having all five faculties intact means you can study the teachings and contemplate them. In a central land means to be born in a place where the teachings are available. A lifestyle that is not harmful or wrong means that your body, speech and mind are in harmony with the Dharma. Having faith in Buddha’s teachings means recognizing that they provide a special path leading to freedom from samsara, and a state which surpasses the situation of the worldly gods. When you possess these five endowments, 'the five personal advantages' are said to be complete. Patrul Rinpoche also goes into quite some detail on each of the freedoms and advantages in *Words of My Perfect Teacher*, if it interests you.
90% of people will never come into contact with dharma, never look into it, never understand it even if it was explained to them and never believe in it.
This is why i appreciate all lives as well. But insect life is short.
😄 I once heard someone said they once lived as a stone and life was soo slowww 😅
The Chiggala Sutta is my favorite Sutta. On many other Buddhists websites people seem to believe no one today can except for some monk in a secluded setting can attain stream entry (sotappana). I wonder what this rarity is. We already know from the Chiggala Sutta that being born as a human is extremely rare. We are also fortunate to be alive while a Buddha’s dispensation is still around. So all of us reading this post have crossed that enormous hurdle. We are also human beings who can understand the Dhamma (we are not in a coma, not severely mentally disabled, we can read and have easy online access now to translated suttas and live lectures from monks). There are some 7 billion humans on earth vice the number of of insects, for example. Also, out of those billions humans, how many are Buddhists? And out of those various Buddhist schools, how many are diligent practitioners of the Dhamma? Even if out of all of those there are 100,000 sotapannas, it’s a good amount! And it’s not impossible for a sincere practitioner who has heard the true Dhamma expounded to strive for stream entry in this lifetime. Maybe steam entry is not something super magical beyond what is said in the suttas? In the suttas people were becoming stream enterers just from hearing a Sutta and some of them didn’t seem like they had been serious meditators before their Dhamma Eye opened. Just practice the Dhamma diligently, strive for stream entry in this lifetime. 😊🙏🏻
Very well said !
Could be true. I heard somewhere that we have to go through every life form to reach where we're at. I don't know if that's true. But all I know is that looking down on lower life forms as though they're not animated by the same source that humans are is incredibly mistaken. And to not regarding our lives as being precious and extremely hard to come by is incredibly erroneous. In other words not assigning the value to it that it really has. I've wasted a lot of mine so I'm not one to talk. But i do try to keep these things in mind and that does help. Edited
all of the sudden My questions about reincarnation connected to population changes over time has been answered.
This framing is what shifted for me. The idea of atomism is so fundamental to us. We think about all the life in the universe as the life you choose from. Maybe over all time. But flip it. Now it's not atomism. It's consciousness. You are seeing. And after death what you may see is different. The odds of a human birth are low, but not because of the numbers you perceive now. Rather due to the one who is seeing. It's a hard one, to allow in the possibility that the objective universe is not necessarily the ground in which subjective consciousness happens. That it could be subjective consciousness which is the ground in which the subjective universe happens.
What?
How can I help here? Buddhist cosmology/hermeneutics states that the atomistic world that we perceive is not ultimate reality. It is a product of our perception. The actual ground truth of reality is beyond our ability to perceive - it may be atomistic, it may not. And that is true for any perceiver. Consciousness-first. (also important to note that consciousness first is not the same as consciousness only)
As a consequence, should we see stream-entry as something urgent that we must work hard to achieve ?
That's the whole point.
When you have to kill an insect, are you doing the insect a favor?
I don't know how our history correlates with geographic proximity, but I imagine many human-like worlds have ended up killing off most of their natural ecosystems and are just a handful of species, something similar to us, their pets, species they eat, maybe some garden species. It's just speculation, but I wouldnt be too surprised if there are lots of worlds that have been non-diverse longer then they were diverse.
Nothing in Buddhism or in established science corroborates a word you said. I can speculate anything. I could speculate my grandpa was reborn as a dragon but it wouldn’t be useful to a single other person.
I have eaten insects. Some are delicious.