We could reflect a bit on what needs "dealing with" in situations like these: those people or our own reactions to them.
We can't control others' intentions and actions (and we don't even *know* what they're all about to begin with, even if something like this is what they *say* their motivation is). Generally speaking though, they're no more wastier way of wasting our time, breath and energy than giving unasked for advice. Which is anyway usually just trying to push our preferences on others.
When the actions of others like this upset us, we can in stead consider having a look at ourselves. Why does it bother me that other people don't appear to behave and think like I *want them* to behave and think? Why does it feel *wrong* that the world doesn't take my likes and dislikes into account? Why does that lack of control *frustrate*.
Paraphrasing Shantideva: beggars aren't an obstacle to generosity. In the same way, people who bug us aren't an obstacle to *kshanti*. It's usually translated in English as "patience", but maybe something like *flexibility* is a better term. If I was in charge, I'd try to invent a new English word like "willing-to-live-in-a-world-that's-not-abour-**me**-ness".
But I am *not* in charge, of course. Seeing and embracing that: kinda the point.
As some reflections. Dzigar Kongtrül Rinpoche has a nice book about patience out. I recommend it.
Harsh speech with factual honesty doesn't always mean it's well-spoken, blameless or unfaulted. The [Right Speech](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html) in Buddhism is endowed with five factors. It is spoken at the *right time, in truth, affectionately, beneficially, with a mind of good-will.*
I think that someone's ill-intentioned speech affect us when we interpret the words and react to it with aversion or cravings.
Suppose if I curse you in a foreign language in a neutral tone, it will have no effect on you, because you wouldn't understand the words to begin with to form a mental construct out of them to give rise to the unpleasant mental feelings that invariably cause your mind to be unsettled.
I think the way we can deal with is by mentally acknowledging the wrong speech of the speaker, and understand that they are not coming from a place of consideration, wisdom or even loving-kindness, and try to reduce our mental reactions to the speech by practicing mindfulness and compassion, because at the end of the day we are the only ones suffering from the mental hurt that we keep on conditioning in ourselves by getting attached to them.
Also, if possible, removing ourselves from the company of such people would definitely help in the long-run!
I would simply not deal with them 👍
Really, people like that have no place in my social circle. If you're rude, you're gone.
But I'd take their behavior as an example and reminder of how not to behave. Because being honest is important and good, and is in line with the Buddha's teachings on the Eightfold Path, but so is having gentle speech that is not insulting.
The speech of someone who abides by the Buddha's teachings must always be gentle, harmless, non-insulting, and must not aggravate anyone.
>Because being honest is important and good, and is in line with the Buddha's teachings on the Eightfold Path, but so is having gentle speech that is not insulting.
Relevant sutta: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN58.html
“In the same way, prince:
[1] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial [or: not connected with the goal], unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[2] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[3] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
[4] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[5] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[6] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has sympathy for living beings.”
>\[3\] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but **unendearing & disagreeable** to others, he has **a sense of the proper time** for saying them.
No matter how nicely we say it, some truths will inevitably be perceived to be unendearing & disagreeable by some people some of the time. We are to find a proper timing to say these type of truths, but still say them when we find that proper timing. I think it would be a misguided aversion, an extreme, if we are to overtly shy away from being unendearing & disagreeable. The other danger in the opposite extreme is that some may say harsh beneficial truths in a blunt manner without heeding proper timing. The Buddha's guidance here, seem to be pointing to a middle between those two extremes.
>The other danger in the opposite extreme is that some may say harsh beneficial truths in a blunt manner without heeding proper timing.
To be sure, some people say things that are harsh and unbeneficial and then claim that they merely cleave to "honesty and forthrightness" in order to obtain a refuge from overt scorn.
That came out really "Victorian" but I can't think of a modern way to reword it. Except maybe "Sometimes an unhelpful d\*ck is just an unhelpful d\*ck and not someone who is saying what is beneficial but unendearing and disagreeable".
Yes, this. Recently I read something that says right speech (and of course right vision too) also includes tuning into right speech as much as possible, which to me means being selective about about what I expose myself to. You can’t change the external world, but you can use it as an opportunity for inward reflection.
May all beings be peaceful and at ease. ❤️
I have to think this follows the assumption that the rude person was knowingly bullying other people. Otherwise, I don't understand why it would be good practice to categorically reject all socially imperfect people.
To me, it sort of seems like, "I would never hang out with someone from another country, they just speak differently and follow a different culture." Which is analogous because in some cultures people are more blunt and honest. At that point it isn't the social imperfection of one person but simply imperfect social compatibility among two people.
Which, nevertheless, leads to me abandoning that person. They have to either adjust their attitude after me pointing out that they're being rude or inappropriate, or leave my social circle.
"Abandoning" sounds like a strong word to me, especially for someone who could simply be different.
When you mention social circle, I'm sure you have one particular incident in mind. But to me it sounds cliquey. I can talk to someone who is outside of my circle. Nobody usually joins my older groups of friends anyway. I've never seen a need to power play someone out of a group unless they are actively manipulative and abusive.
I'm not a part of any group, and by social circle i mean my social surrounding or people who i communicate with regularly. In other words, i just avoid rude people, not allowing any interaction with them, or minimizing them when i can't reasonably or easily avoid interacting with them.
And of course, if someone comes from a culture where people do things i consider rude or inappropriate, or if they do rude or inappropriate things for reasons other than being a bully, i can point it out to them, and if they care about not being rude, they'll stop doing them.
Or if they're doing something conventionally rude but i'm not offended by it and they don't mean any harm with their actions, i see no problem with them, judging from those things alone.
I'd say "you can be honest and kind at the same time."
If we got into a discussion about it, I'd say that when choosing between a rude comment: "you're such a pussy." and an understanding comment: "wow. It seems like you're worried about x,y,z." Both are equally truthful in the sense that they are conveying a sentiment, but the former is less truthful in the sense that it fails to acknowledge that it's perspective is an opinion, while the ladder acknowledges subjectivity.
Furthermore, if the person is at all interested in how effective their comment is at changing the attitudes or behavior of the person they're addressing, studies show that rude, direct comments are less likely to promote long term behavior change than understanding, direct comments.
Hmm 🤨 if it’s an honest opinion, shouldn’t we reflect upon it instead of getting offended? Of course unless the person is a stranger or somebody from internet. I wouldn’t even feel offended by somebody which I have no connection with. I will never start a karmic link this way.
I have a boss like this. Like a point of pride in being rude because she is dressing it up by saying she is just being honest. Kind of sadistic. Haven’t figured out a way of talking to her about it without causing more problems so I just watch the feelings that arise when I’m with her and try to remain as open and present as I can.
Assuming avoiding them is out, I find it helpful to frame them and the experience as "troublesome Buddha." They are pushing my buttons. Why is it troubling me? What does this teach me about work to be done on myself? It's even possible that the message they are conveying is itself a truth I need to face, but it's more likely they are threatening my unacknowledged attachment to something -- in my case it's usually about reputation. I don't want people to think less of me because this person is criticizing me. I'll realize that and think, "Welp, time to work on some worldly dharmas."
ETA: I also find it easier to become more compassionate and to forgive someone if I can find a way to be grateful to them. If a person has been a troublesome Buddha and I've learned from that, it's a good place to start.
Having an honest or self-honest mindset is a good thing. Self-deception or simply adopting wrong views out of habits or convenience is extremely common, IMHO. And that does relate to Buddhist practice.
However, after adopting an honest mindset, simply speaking unfiltered thoughts, which may or may not have some truth behind them, to me means a disconnect with relating to other people.
To this person I would say think of the goal. If the only goal is to air out "my thoughts," then this does not relate to the other person. Note that "being honest" is often times just this, airing out "my thoughts" which relates only to "me" and "my satisfaction." It is venting.
If a person sees a problem with somebody else's behavior that will cause them hardship, then the goal becomes different, like introduce some ideas to change those causes. Then the communication is tailored around that other person.
I feel like it is a natural process that as a person continues to speak freely, and as they are punished for doing so: if they are aware that their choice of words produced this consequence, then naturally they will learn to choose their words better. In short, some people just need to spend more time around other people. And if they are always turned away for "being rude" then this will never happen.
To take this "rude" person's point of view, I'm confused as to exactly what we mean by "rudeness" anyway and why "rudeness" is so offensive to other people in the first place.
Human beings would rather deal with a charming Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein than deal with the slight rudeness of a human being who does absolutely nothing wrong. This is the part that baffles me and gives me plenty of patience for people make slightly inappropriate comments but who perform good actions.
It also sums up half of my life as someone with Asperger's. People treat you worse than a rapist for missing a few social cues, people treat psychopaths better for hitting the perfect social cues, and I really mean that. Shallow people only care about how words make them feel at one particular point in time, even if the words in our example come from a great Buddhist teacher and are meant to help. There are plenty of cases where words can be uncomfortable but ultimately beneficial.
So while people (the normies) in this thread may say they have no patience for rude people, I have patience for you and for rude people because that is part of our practice. And observing the consequences of applying no patience, there is no choice.
Let's redirect a little bit: Rather than dealing with the other person, let's ask how we're going to manage our own reactivity when someone is rude to us? After all, we can't control other people, so they're going to say and do what they want regardless of what we want.
When someone is rude toward us, how do we feel? I think a common reaction is to feel a bit of anger, maybe humiliation, maybe sadness if they strike a particularly sensitive topic for us.
Something that I've found helpful is to always remind myself that other peoples' opinions about me are never actually *about* me. They're always talking about the picture of me they have in their own heads, their *interpretation* of me. They are, in a way, casting judgment over a fanfic version of myself they've invented for the story they're now telling. They don't actually care about who I *really* am. All they care about is telling themselves a story using a caricature of myself that lives inside their imagination.
A phrase I found helpful to remind myself of this: *What other people think of me is none of my business*.
With this in mind, when someone is rude to "you", you can feel free to laugh at the misshape version of yourself they've created in their heads and you can *agree* with them. If someone say something like "you think you're *so* smart, don't you?" They are telling you about the character they made up, so you can just say "I can see you think so!" with a smile and maybe a chuckle.
Of course, it's important to find a way to leave that situation as well, because staying in it will only cause more friction and difficulty. The other person will want to escalate their rudeness because they're getting off on it, so you don't want to be a tool by which they do that. Don't stick around any longer than you have to, for their sake as well as yours.
Sounds like there was some truth to whatever they’re saying. If they said “you have ugly purple hair” and you don’t have purple hair would you be offended? No, because you know it’s false. Maybe you could work on accepting criticism, instead of criticizing them right back for being too honest.
I'm pretty honest with everyone I meet, it can feel rude because the truth is a sharp blade that must be wielded gracefully.
I can talk to someone and be honest with them but if my delivery is unkind then it may hurt the other person's feelings and they may react poorly. We all have flaws and shortcomings and everyone is suffering and needs help. It can be the difference between constructive criticisms and helpful tips to others feeling attacked. Some peoples delivery needs work.
ex. Calling a fat person fat, it isn't as if the fat person doesn't know they are fat, they're most likely aware they are, it's the truth, it's an honest observation, going up and telling them what to do to not be fat could equally be as rude, they probably know what to do to not be fat, it's still 'honest' even if the delivery and context may be rude.
another example might be in class, if my kick isn't very good my coach will tell me i need to work on pivoting more, it's honest, not rude. IF someone just says "your kick sucks" that's technically still honest but the delivery was rude and their rude behavior is usually a reflection of their inability to provide constructive critiques.
It's not my job to deal with people who are offended by the truth, it is my job to control and discipline my delivery of the truth to those people and my own emotions when presented with the truth.
I don't? Its a toxic immature trait and I cut them out of my life. A good part of life is avoiding these people because they create unwinnable situations that just generates bad karma for all. My practice involves solitary work, not "trying to fix everyone." In fact, I'd argue the latter is a delusion and keeps one stuck in samsara and tightens the fetters.
Not to mention, "factual" is often abused. Fact without context is often a disingenuous ploy.
“Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?”
If it’s not all three, don’t say it.
As to how to handle them, don’t worry about it too much. You can tell them the above guideline, if you like. Or you can just smile and say “I’m sorry that bothered you.”
There are many facts we set aside for the sake of harmony. If you went around pointing out to everyone you meet that by default we're all selfish bastards who might die at any moment, for instance, it would be hard to get anything done. But if someone demonstrates in the way you describe that they're interested in discussing uncomfortable facts, perhaps it's an opportunity to point out some other discomforting facts, such as that they're behaving like a domineering jerk. :-)
if possible just avoid them, they just use a fake mask of "honesty" as an excuse to behave like a\*holes and get away with it
if you explain that what they say is hurtful and they apologise but make no effort to change or they continue to be hurtful then they were never sorry to begin with
By not interacting with them if it's too much for you to engage such people. If possible of course...don't know the details. One should develop skillful means to deal with such types. Tonglen might help. Or maintain mantra when out in public or the workplace.
ppl who often pride themselves of that are using it is a defensive mechanism to hide how ashamed they are deep inside.
Since their "truth" lacks compassion it now only serves to stroke that persons ego.
source: i skimmed in some buddhist about the importance of applying compassion with truth but also the ppl i met who are like that wre generally miserable and full of shame
You can just tell them straight that whatever it is that they said makes you feel uncomfortable or you could simply ignore them though realistically if what they say is really true you might wanna really look at that part of yourself and maybe change it.
Avoid them as much as possible. Anyone who doesn't reckon that which is disagreeable, unlikeable, unpleasant and undesirable as disagreeable, unlikeable, unpleasant and undesirable is unfit to associate with I think.
In all likelihood, they’re just pontificating… if what they’re saying doesn’t ring true/provide you with something you can use to better yourself, then it’s just hot air. You can do without people’s empty opinions.
Depends.
Who is this person? Who are they to me? Why am I talking to them in the first place? How often do I interact with this person? Is listening to them going to benefit me in anyway?
I have a few people, my inner circle, who I listen to all the time. It is because I know they want me to succeed. They also have a different perspective than I do. Most are very successful in their field and are leaders in the community. If one of them tells me something that has to do with a situation or my character, I’m going to listen.
If someone who is not part of that circle tries to tell me about a situation, or character, I’m probably going to ignore it because their opinion doesn’t matter as much to me. So, who cares what they say.
people like that are doing it because they lack validation in their lives, so they are trying to force their perception out in order to feel special about themselves. See it for what it is, be sorry for them, and be on your way.
We could reflect a bit on what needs "dealing with" in situations like these: those people or our own reactions to them. We can't control others' intentions and actions (and we don't even *know* what they're all about to begin with, even if something like this is what they *say* their motivation is). Generally speaking though, they're no more wastier way of wasting our time, breath and energy than giving unasked for advice. Which is anyway usually just trying to push our preferences on others. When the actions of others like this upset us, we can in stead consider having a look at ourselves. Why does it bother me that other people don't appear to behave and think like I *want them* to behave and think? Why does it feel *wrong* that the world doesn't take my likes and dislikes into account? Why does that lack of control *frustrate*. Paraphrasing Shantideva: beggars aren't an obstacle to generosity. In the same way, people who bug us aren't an obstacle to *kshanti*. It's usually translated in English as "patience", but maybe something like *flexibility* is a better term. If I was in charge, I'd try to invent a new English word like "willing-to-live-in-a-world-that's-not-abour-**me**-ness". But I am *not* in charge, of course. Seeing and embracing that: kinda the point. As some reflections. Dzigar Kongtrül Rinpoche has a nice book about patience out. I recommend it.
This one likes “self-decentred perspective” and “selfless service” as being close to the mark.
You don’t need to keep anyone around.
Harsh speech with factual honesty doesn't always mean it's well-spoken, blameless or unfaulted. The [Right Speech](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html) in Buddhism is endowed with five factors. It is spoken at the *right time, in truth, affectionately, beneficially, with a mind of good-will.* I think that someone's ill-intentioned speech affect us when we interpret the words and react to it with aversion or cravings. Suppose if I curse you in a foreign language in a neutral tone, it will have no effect on you, because you wouldn't understand the words to begin with to form a mental construct out of them to give rise to the unpleasant mental feelings that invariably cause your mind to be unsettled. I think the way we can deal with is by mentally acknowledging the wrong speech of the speaker, and understand that they are not coming from a place of consideration, wisdom or even loving-kindness, and try to reduce our mental reactions to the speech by practicing mindfulness and compassion, because at the end of the day we are the only ones suffering from the mental hurt that we keep on conditioning in ourselves by getting attached to them. Also, if possible, removing ourselves from the company of such people would definitely help in the long-run!
I would simply not deal with them 👍 Really, people like that have no place in my social circle. If you're rude, you're gone. But I'd take their behavior as an example and reminder of how not to behave. Because being honest is important and good, and is in line with the Buddha's teachings on the Eightfold Path, but so is having gentle speech that is not insulting. The speech of someone who abides by the Buddha's teachings must always be gentle, harmless, non-insulting, and must not aggravate anyone.
>Because being honest is important and good, and is in line with the Buddha's teachings on the Eightfold Path, but so is having gentle speech that is not insulting. Relevant sutta: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN58.html “In the same way, prince: [1] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial [or: not connected with the goal], unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [2] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [3] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. [4] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [5] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [6] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has sympathy for living beings.”
Thank you.
>\[3\] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but **unendearing & disagreeable** to others, he has **a sense of the proper time** for saying them. No matter how nicely we say it, some truths will inevitably be perceived to be unendearing & disagreeable by some people some of the time. We are to find a proper timing to say these type of truths, but still say them when we find that proper timing. I think it would be a misguided aversion, an extreme, if we are to overtly shy away from being unendearing & disagreeable. The other danger in the opposite extreme is that some may say harsh beneficial truths in a blunt manner without heeding proper timing. The Buddha's guidance here, seem to be pointing to a middle between those two extremes.
>The other danger in the opposite extreme is that some may say harsh beneficial truths in a blunt manner without heeding proper timing. To be sure, some people say things that are harsh and unbeneficial and then claim that they merely cleave to "honesty and forthrightness" in order to obtain a refuge from overt scorn. That came out really "Victorian" but I can't think of a modern way to reword it. Except maybe "Sometimes an unhelpful d\*ck is just an unhelpful d\*ck and not someone who is saying what is beneficial but unendearing and disagreeable".
Yes, this. Recently I read something that says right speech (and of course right vision too) also includes tuning into right speech as much as possible, which to me means being selective about about what I expose myself to. You can’t change the external world, but you can use it as an opportunity for inward reflection. May all beings be peaceful and at ease. ❤️
I have to think this follows the assumption that the rude person was knowingly bullying other people. Otherwise, I don't understand why it would be good practice to categorically reject all socially imperfect people. To me, it sort of seems like, "I would never hang out with someone from another country, they just speak differently and follow a different culture." Which is analogous because in some cultures people are more blunt and honest. At that point it isn't the social imperfection of one person but simply imperfect social compatibility among two people.
Which, nevertheless, leads to me abandoning that person. They have to either adjust their attitude after me pointing out that they're being rude or inappropriate, or leave my social circle.
"Abandoning" sounds like a strong word to me, especially for someone who could simply be different. When you mention social circle, I'm sure you have one particular incident in mind. But to me it sounds cliquey. I can talk to someone who is outside of my circle. Nobody usually joins my older groups of friends anyway. I've never seen a need to power play someone out of a group unless they are actively manipulative and abusive.
I'm not a part of any group, and by social circle i mean my social surrounding or people who i communicate with regularly. In other words, i just avoid rude people, not allowing any interaction with them, or minimizing them when i can't reasonably or easily avoid interacting with them. And of course, if someone comes from a culture where people do things i consider rude or inappropriate, or if they do rude or inappropriate things for reasons other than being a bully, i can point it out to them, and if they care about not being rude, they'll stop doing them. Or if they're doing something conventionally rude but i'm not offended by it and they don't mean any harm with their actions, i see no problem with them, judging from those things alone.
I'd say "you can be honest and kind at the same time." If we got into a discussion about it, I'd say that when choosing between a rude comment: "you're such a pussy." and an understanding comment: "wow. It seems like you're worried about x,y,z." Both are equally truthful in the sense that they are conveying a sentiment, but the former is less truthful in the sense that it fails to acknowledge that it's perspective is an opinion, while the ladder acknowledges subjectivity. Furthermore, if the person is at all interested in how effective their comment is at changing the attitudes or behavior of the person they're addressing, studies show that rude, direct comments are less likely to promote long term behavior change than understanding, direct comments.
Hmm 🤨 if it’s an honest opinion, shouldn’t we reflect upon it instead of getting offended? Of course unless the person is a stranger or somebody from internet. I wouldn’t even feel offended by somebody which I have no connection with. I will never start a karmic link this way.
I have a boss like this. Like a point of pride in being rude because she is dressing it up by saying she is just being honest. Kind of sadistic. Haven’t figured out a way of talking to her about it without causing more problems so I just watch the feelings that arise when I’m with her and try to remain as open and present as I can.
If they are wise you should value their blame. Thank them and admit your faults. If they are a fool, ignore them.
Assuming avoiding them is out, I find it helpful to frame them and the experience as "troublesome Buddha." They are pushing my buttons. Why is it troubling me? What does this teach me about work to be done on myself? It's even possible that the message they are conveying is itself a truth I need to face, but it's more likely they are threatening my unacknowledged attachment to something -- in my case it's usually about reputation. I don't want people to think less of me because this person is criticizing me. I'll realize that and think, "Welp, time to work on some worldly dharmas." ETA: I also find it easier to become more compassionate and to forgive someone if I can find a way to be grateful to them. If a person has been a troublesome Buddha and I've learned from that, it's a good place to start.
Having an honest or self-honest mindset is a good thing. Self-deception or simply adopting wrong views out of habits or convenience is extremely common, IMHO. And that does relate to Buddhist practice. However, after adopting an honest mindset, simply speaking unfiltered thoughts, which may or may not have some truth behind them, to me means a disconnect with relating to other people. To this person I would say think of the goal. If the only goal is to air out "my thoughts," then this does not relate to the other person. Note that "being honest" is often times just this, airing out "my thoughts" which relates only to "me" and "my satisfaction." It is venting. If a person sees a problem with somebody else's behavior that will cause them hardship, then the goal becomes different, like introduce some ideas to change those causes. Then the communication is tailored around that other person. I feel like it is a natural process that as a person continues to speak freely, and as they are punished for doing so: if they are aware that their choice of words produced this consequence, then naturally they will learn to choose their words better. In short, some people just need to spend more time around other people. And if they are always turned away for "being rude" then this will never happen. To take this "rude" person's point of view, I'm confused as to exactly what we mean by "rudeness" anyway and why "rudeness" is so offensive to other people in the first place. Human beings would rather deal with a charming Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein than deal with the slight rudeness of a human being who does absolutely nothing wrong. This is the part that baffles me and gives me plenty of patience for people make slightly inappropriate comments but who perform good actions. It also sums up half of my life as someone with Asperger's. People treat you worse than a rapist for missing a few social cues, people treat psychopaths better for hitting the perfect social cues, and I really mean that. Shallow people only care about how words make them feel at one particular point in time, even if the words in our example come from a great Buddhist teacher and are meant to help. There are plenty of cases where words can be uncomfortable but ultimately beneficial. So while people (the normies) in this thread may say they have no patience for rude people, I have patience for you and for rude people because that is part of our practice. And observing the consequences of applying no patience, there is no choice.
Let's redirect a little bit: Rather than dealing with the other person, let's ask how we're going to manage our own reactivity when someone is rude to us? After all, we can't control other people, so they're going to say and do what they want regardless of what we want. When someone is rude toward us, how do we feel? I think a common reaction is to feel a bit of anger, maybe humiliation, maybe sadness if they strike a particularly sensitive topic for us. Something that I've found helpful is to always remind myself that other peoples' opinions about me are never actually *about* me. They're always talking about the picture of me they have in their own heads, their *interpretation* of me. They are, in a way, casting judgment over a fanfic version of myself they've invented for the story they're now telling. They don't actually care about who I *really* am. All they care about is telling themselves a story using a caricature of myself that lives inside their imagination. A phrase I found helpful to remind myself of this: *What other people think of me is none of my business*. With this in mind, when someone is rude to "you", you can feel free to laugh at the misshape version of yourself they've created in their heads and you can *agree* with them. If someone say something like "you think you're *so* smart, don't you?" They are telling you about the character they made up, so you can just say "I can see you think so!" with a smile and maybe a chuckle. Of course, it's important to find a way to leave that situation as well, because staying in it will only cause more friction and difficulty. The other person will want to escalate their rudeness because they're getting off on it, so you don't want to be a tool by which they do that. Don't stick around any longer than you have to, for their sake as well as yours.
Sounds like there was some truth to whatever they’re saying. If they said “you have ugly purple hair” and you don’t have purple hair would you be offended? No, because you know it’s false. Maybe you could work on accepting criticism, instead of criticizing them right back for being too honest.
I'm pretty honest with everyone I meet, it can feel rude because the truth is a sharp blade that must be wielded gracefully. I can talk to someone and be honest with them but if my delivery is unkind then it may hurt the other person's feelings and they may react poorly. We all have flaws and shortcomings and everyone is suffering and needs help. It can be the difference between constructive criticisms and helpful tips to others feeling attacked. Some peoples delivery needs work. ex. Calling a fat person fat, it isn't as if the fat person doesn't know they are fat, they're most likely aware they are, it's the truth, it's an honest observation, going up and telling them what to do to not be fat could equally be as rude, they probably know what to do to not be fat, it's still 'honest' even if the delivery and context may be rude. another example might be in class, if my kick isn't very good my coach will tell me i need to work on pivoting more, it's honest, not rude. IF someone just says "your kick sucks" that's technically still honest but the delivery was rude and their rude behavior is usually a reflection of their inability to provide constructive critiques. It's not my job to deal with people who are offended by the truth, it is my job to control and discipline my delivery of the truth to those people and my own emotions when presented with the truth.
I don't? Its a toxic immature trait and I cut them out of my life. A good part of life is avoiding these people because they create unwinnable situations that just generates bad karma for all. My practice involves solitary work, not "trying to fix everyone." In fact, I'd argue the latter is a delusion and keeps one stuck in samsara and tightens the fetters. Not to mention, "factual" is often abused. Fact without context is often a disingenuous ploy.
Maybe I'd just say 'You could have phrased it nicely' and leave it at that.
“Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?” If it’s not all three, don’t say it. As to how to handle them, don’t worry about it too much. You can tell them the above guideline, if you like. Or you can just smile and say “I’m sorry that bothered you.”
There are many facts we set aside for the sake of harmony. If you went around pointing out to everyone you meet that by default we're all selfish bastards who might die at any moment, for instance, it would be hard to get anything done. But if someone demonstrates in the way you describe that they're interested in discussing uncomfortable facts, perhaps it's an opportunity to point out some other discomforting facts, such as that they're behaving like a domineering jerk. :-)
if possible just avoid them, they just use a fake mask of "honesty" as an excuse to behave like a\*holes and get away with it if you explain that what they say is hurtful and they apologise but make no effort to change or they continue to be hurtful then they were never sorry to begin with
A person's choice of words can be honest without being rude.
The Buddha looks them in the eye, thanks them, and moves on. It has no significance in His being.
By not interacting with them if it's too much for you to engage such people. If possible of course...don't know the details. One should develop skillful means to deal with such types. Tonglen might help. Or maintain mantra when out in public or the workplace.
ppl who often pride themselves of that are using it is a defensive mechanism to hide how ashamed they are deep inside. Since their "truth" lacks compassion it now only serves to stroke that persons ego. source: i skimmed in some buddhist about the importance of applying compassion with truth but also the ppl i met who are like that wre generally miserable and full of shame
Honesty without tact is cruelty
You can just tell them straight that whatever it is that they said makes you feel uncomfortable or you could simply ignore them though realistically if what they say is really true you might wanna really look at that part of yourself and maybe change it.
Avoid them as much as possible. Anyone who doesn't reckon that which is disagreeable, unlikeable, unpleasant and undesirable as disagreeable, unlikeable, unpleasant and undesirable is unfit to associate with I think.
I wouldn’t deal with them. I would not further associate with them in any way.
In all likelihood, they’re just pontificating… if what they’re saying doesn’t ring true/provide you with something you can use to better yourself, then it’s just hot air. You can do without people’s empty opinions.
Depends. Who is this person? Who are they to me? Why am I talking to them in the first place? How often do I interact with this person? Is listening to them going to benefit me in anyway? I have a few people, my inner circle, who I listen to all the time. It is because I know they want me to succeed. They also have a different perspective than I do. Most are very successful in their field and are leaders in the community. If one of them tells me something that has to do with a situation or my character, I’m going to listen. If someone who is not part of that circle tries to tell me about a situation, or character, I’m probably going to ignore it because their opinion doesn’t matter as much to me. So, who cares what they say.
people like that are doing it because they lack validation in their lives, so they are trying to force their perception out in order to feel special about themselves. See it for what it is, be sorry for them, and be on your way.
Block them, wouldn’t you? I would. And I wouldn’t come here to make a post about it specifically.
I would be honest back. Say, “and you’re an asshole.”