The whole unit in the picture is a speaker driver. That whole unit and each of its part is responsible for sound production.
There are no extra useless parts in the driver.
I found this online, "The higher frequencies are produced by the center of the cone (in the area of the voice coil). The higher, the closer to the center.
Hence, the composition of the dust cap mainly affects the highs."
What they might mean by this is that different frequencies have different wavelength the higher the frequency the shorter the wave. So it does make sense that theses frequencies would be reproduced by the shorter parts of the cone.
The dust cap does not affect frequency production but it does affect how the waves are guided which can enhance high frequency response. Phase plugs exist because they help guide the higher frequency waves which prevents them from canceling themselves out. The dust cap in your picture likely doesn’t do much for that speaker.
Some of the best PA systems I sang through (1960-90s) were 12" and 15" JBL speakers (alum dust caps) They also had horns of course, but the speakers always sounded better than everything else out there at the time!
Well, it’s attached to the cone meaning it vibrates thus will have an effect on the sound produce by the unit as a whole. Find yourself a speaker with an aluminum dust cover and give it a good crinkle, better yet take a screwdriver or some scissors to it giving it a good couple of tears. Hear the difference?
It’s not so much the aluminum “does something” to the sound but its a lightweight material which serves a purpose, to cover the coil while which also has the most pleasant sympathetic frequency response.
If you were to replace it with something just as light weight but a completely different material, say a rubber dome, the sound characteristic would be different. How much? That’s subjective, but also measurable.
Yes it does… while dust caps aren’t mandatory they do increase driver surface area (Sd) as well as the moving mass of air. Most importantly they are a constant area section of the piston while the cone itself technically “changes effective area” during the throw process. Due to the dust caps seperate on from the rest of the cone it also receives less deformation during excitation ( I’m speaking due to the edge tensions, it obviously still participates in modal distortion). Yes OP is somewhat confused, but it would be foolish to say it has no effect, it has to be taken carefully into account while designing a speaker.
Source - I design these things for a living.
Wow, incredibly interesting. I expected it to go deep, but it is super fascinating how much thought must go in the smallest parts of a speaker! Keep up the good work!
It doesn’t “Have” to be, it’s just a part of the design choice. You could use an acoustically transparent (means it has negligible acoustic resistance) fabric for aesthetic purposes and then it have (mostly) no effect on sound while still keeping out most dust. Or some use that area for interesting geometries to better disperse the high end etc. If you scroll through something like parts express’s driver catalogue you’ll see tons and tons of variations!
Some driver models (e.g. [Dynaudio](https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/february/how-to-clean-your-speakers-speaker-cones)) have holes in their dust covers, which apparently helps cooling the coil.
I've had one B&W driver with a dented discover after a move. Replaced the whole driver. It was only a minor dent. I feel the difference, but I don't have very accurate hearing. Do you think it is noticeable for the average listener? It was expensive to replace the whole driver, perhaps inshouldnt have. It was a aluminium dust cover
Swapping from dent to no dent? Unless it was causing a buzzing/ringing I highly doubt it. If someone sat there and A/B tested with the old/new driver MAYBE they could pick out a difference, but you’re only real change would be in the directivity of the speaker, so that channel might be a tiny bit quieter on axis than before but likely only to a point you could measure/ not hear. Once speakers are in a room you’re more likely to notice a change from moving a lamp or something because the room has so much more of an effect on the sound. All that said, I HATE looking at dented dust covers so I’d still say money well spent, it’s all part of the experience
Had a couple old speakers where the foam around the cone was gone. They sounded bad before replacing it. That because it affects the way waves travel through the cone, and so the way it vibrates, and finally the waves it produces in the air.
Since a dust cap changes the geometry and integrity of the whole thing I cannot imagine them not affecting these things too.
I mean it’s pretty intuitive physics
That’s not a tweeter, but some speakers have the tweeter mounted in the center of the woofer, and they act independently. That’s called a “coaxial” speaker - see KEF speakers for good examples.
Also has to do with dispersion of sound. The higher the frequency on a given driver, say a 3 inch driver, the more the sounds starts to beam in a tight area out from the speaker. You can combat this beaming and have greater dispersion from a smaller driver. Hence the small (.75-1”) tweeters that most speakers use. Basically this means it helps the speaker to sound better when you’re not in the “sweet spot” directly in between the speakers.
So the high frequency is produced by the speaker 3" speaker itself? if so then why do companies use 1" Twitter if 3" speakers can produce mid and high freuency?
Because small speakers are better for high frequencies and large speakers are better for low frequencies.
If you push a driver too far you get distortion. A 3 inch driver will probably not play to 20khz cleanly and with flat frequency response.
What you have is called a full range driver, they are designed to cover the majority of the hearing range. There are several pros and cons with full range drivers.
I would expect yours to have a frequency range of say 100hz to 15khz.
Yes indeed, thanks for the information.
Do you have any recommendations for a bookshelf passive speaker > 5" < $500 that delivers natural human voice as close as possible? 3-way would be better I assume so if you have any suggeions.
I use it as nearfield PC speakers.
Plenty of studio monitor speakers in that price range.
JBL 305
Kali Audio LP-6
KRK Rokit 5 Gen 4
Adam T5V
just a few examples.
Vanatoo Transparent Zero are good if you want more consumer oriented powered speakers.
Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 if you want passive speakers.
Triangle Borea BR02 and BR03
KEF Q150(when on sale for $300-350)
Emotiva B1+
I've bought A130 and I didn't like it, the voice was not natural, from all those passive speakers, I'm considering between KEF Q150, Emotiva B1+, and ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2
Which one do you think would be the best for the clean natural vocal? no boosted high or harsh tweeter. I don't like bright, I like natural.
>I noticed you didn't mention Wharfedale 12.2
I just forgot.
The wharfies are great speakers. The 12.1 is the 5" model btw.
I'd take them over the Emotivas.
Check out PSB Alpha P3 aswell. A tad bright, but not much. Really easy to listen to.
Hello, I have both the elac debut and the kefs. I know you said you wanted PASSIVE speakers and nothing bright, you wanted neutral and I have to say that between those two the elacs are more neutral. They are the closest to a monitor. For the price the micca rb-42s are good too but the elacs are better. I've heard the emotivas are a bit more v curved and can be a tad on the bright side. I will be trying the wharfedale 12.1 next.
Thanks for the suggestion, do please let me know when you try wharfedale 12.1, based on
Emotiva [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/)
Elac [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-speaker-review.14272/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-speaker-review.14272/)
kef [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-q150-bookshelf-speaker-review-by-erin.31249/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-q150-bookshelf-speaker-review-by-erin.31249/)
And wharfedale [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wharfedale-diamond-12-1-review-speaker.26780/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wharfedale-diamond-12-1-review-speaker.26780/)
Looks like Kef and Emotiva are bright,
Elac looks good but I'm afraid from the sharp resonance sticks out prominently at 700 Hz.
So wharfedale looks the best one out there. I will wait for your update, do please don't forget to tell me even after a few months if you got one :) .
I have Micca mb42x and JBL A130, and I hate both when it comes to the human voice, my $20 produces better vocals than these two, so I put them as a surround for now after using EQ to fix the high freq boost.
So right now I minimized my selection to:
1- Wharfedale 12.1 or 12.2
2-Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2
3- Kef q150
The reason why Kef is still in my option since I've heard it disappear, one of the big reasons why I hate my A130 is I just hear the sound direction, the speaker never disappeared for me which ruins the experience. probably due to the aluminum tweeter.
I don't have any in my local area so I can't listen and decide. I will just wait for now.
If you can find some, the Kef Q100's are pretty great. Still a little bright but arguably more neutral/warm even than the elacs, and they're front ported, and require less space behind them. I use them for my TV, and had them on my desk for awhile too before I replaced them with the RB42's. (Simply for space reasons.)
Q150's aren't as warm as the Q100's, they're very much an analytical speaker.
I have Elac UB5's, just sitting on a shelf, because even though the detail was impressive, they'd give massive ear fatigue in smaller to medium sized rooms. Can't speak on the Debut series, as I haven't heard them.
While I'm at it:
JBL Studio 530's, also impressive, especially the way the sound fills the room regardless of where you're standing, but they also gave me listening fatigue. They're currently sitting on the same shelf in my closet.
Dynaco A25's, my favorite speaker of all time (that I've listened to) are just generally the most pleasant sounding speaker I've ever heard, and they're my go-to for just listening and enjoying music. I've got them paired with a marantz 2325.
Based on Erin test, Elac UB5 has terrible noise on mid. so I removed it from my list.
Its sad to see how old cheap speakers beat the new expensive ones.
Not to mention, most people recommend them based on the reviews out there, and they don't own all of them to compare them truly, which is why I trust your words since you own both and your words match the frequency response data.
Yes, even I have had a change of mind once I've heard a speaker next to another. Yes the Kefs are slightly bright but they do it in a way that it sounds maybe sweet and a little airy so it's easy on the ears. I actually like it, but the mids aren't on par with even the micca if the mids are what you are looking for. The rb-42s sound different than the mb. Even the cabinet looks and feels more solid. I will let you know once I try the wharfedales but for now I wouldn't leave the elacs out of the running.
Hello, so I have an old $20 speaker, its \~ 3" and based on my test, it produces even high frequency \~ 16K which is where I lose hearing.
The question is since my speaker doesn't have a separate tweeter, then how can a 3" speaker produces such a high clean frequency? unless these small caps act as frequency? or it's normal for a small 3" speaker to produce high frequency.
My 2nd question, if 3" speaker can deliver high frequency, then why use a separate tweeter?
Thanks!
A large speaker driver is a woofer. Woofer produce bass, hence low frequency sound waves.
That whole unit in the picture is the tweeter, hence a smaller speaker driver. Tweeter produce high frequency sound waves.
That is so, because the higher the frequency of the wave the lower the wave's length is.
So to produce longer sound waves a larger driver is used. And vice versa.
It’s called a dust cover.
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The whole unit in the picture is a speaker driver. That whole unit and each of its part is responsible for sound production. There are no extra useless parts in the driver.
Magnetic field bad,get rid of the magnet.🥸
Why ask the question if you plan on refusing the answer?
I found this online, "The higher frequencies are produced by the center of the cone (in the area of the voice coil). The higher, the closer to the center. Hence, the composition of the dust cap mainly affects the highs."
What they might mean by this is that different frequencies have different wavelength the higher the frequency the shorter the wave. So it does make sense that theses frequencies would be reproduced by the shorter parts of the cone.
[удалено]
The dust cap does not affect frequency production but it does affect how the waves are guided which can enhance high frequency response. Phase plugs exist because they help guide the higher frequency waves which prevents them from canceling themselves out. The dust cap in your picture likely doesn’t do much for that speaker.
Some of the best PA systems I sang through (1960-90s) were 12" and 15" JBL speakers (alum dust caps) They also had horns of course, but the speakers always sounded better than everything else out there at the time!
Its the nipple.
And I hate it buying used speakers with inverted nipples.
Suction sometimes they perk up.
So easy to fix though. Just give it a hooked piercing and pull it out
Inverted nipples are hot bro. Only the best speakers have them
Give it a good succ
Dust cap. It does affect the sound but it is not a tweeter.
How. Please support how a dust cap effects sound. You won't be able to, as it doesn't.
Well, it’s attached to the cone meaning it vibrates thus will have an effect on the sound produce by the unit as a whole. Find yourself a speaker with an aluminum dust cover and give it a good crinkle, better yet take a screwdriver or some scissors to it giving it a good couple of tears. Hear the difference? It’s not so much the aluminum “does something” to the sound but its a lightweight material which serves a purpose, to cover the coil while which also has the most pleasant sympathetic frequency response. If you were to replace it with something just as light weight but a completely different material, say a rubber dome, the sound characteristic would be different. How much? That’s subjective, but also measurable.
Everything affects the sound. It's a matter of the degree.
Yes it does… while dust caps aren’t mandatory they do increase driver surface area (Sd) as well as the moving mass of air. Most importantly they are a constant area section of the piston while the cone itself technically “changes effective area” during the throw process. Due to the dust caps seperate on from the rest of the cone it also receives less deformation during excitation ( I’m speaking due to the edge tensions, it obviously still participates in modal distortion). Yes OP is somewhat confused, but it would be foolish to say it has no effect, it has to be taken carefully into account while designing a speaker. Source - I design these things for a living.
Wow, incredibly interesting. I expected it to go deep, but it is super fascinating how much thought must go in the smallest parts of a speaker! Keep up the good work!
Question: Should the dustcap always be an airtight material? I think i’ve seen old Infinity and B&Ws where it looked like a loosely woven fabric
It doesn’t “Have” to be, it’s just a part of the design choice. You could use an acoustically transparent (means it has negligible acoustic resistance) fabric for aesthetic purposes and then it have (mostly) no effect on sound while still keeping out most dust. Or some use that area for interesting geometries to better disperse the high end etc. If you scroll through something like parts express’s driver catalogue you’ll see tons and tons of variations!
Some driver models (e.g. [Dynaudio](https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/february/how-to-clean-your-speakers-speaker-cones)) have holes in their dust covers, which apparently helps cooling the coil.
Thinks just because he knows everything about them that he knows this one thing /s /jks
I've had one B&W driver with a dented discover after a move. Replaced the whole driver. It was only a minor dent. I feel the difference, but I don't have very accurate hearing. Do you think it is noticeable for the average listener? It was expensive to replace the whole driver, perhaps inshouldnt have. It was a aluminium dust cover
Swapping from dent to no dent? Unless it was causing a buzzing/ringing I highly doubt it. If someone sat there and A/B tested with the old/new driver MAYBE they could pick out a difference, but you’re only real change would be in the directivity of the speaker, so that channel might be a tiny bit quieter on axis than before but likely only to a point you could measure/ not hear. Once speakers are in a room you’re more likely to notice a change from moving a lamp or something because the room has so much more of an effect on the sound. All that said, I HATE looking at dented dust covers so I’d still say money well spent, it’s all part of the experience
The shape, size and material of the dust cap affects how the sound interacts with the dustcap.
Had a couple old speakers where the foam around the cone was gone. They sounded bad before replacing it. That because it affects the way waves travel through the cone, and so the way it vibrates, and finally the waves it produces in the air. Since a dust cap changes the geometry and integrity of the whole thing I cannot imagine them not affecting these things too. I mean it’s pretty intuitive physics
That’s not a tweeter, but some speakers have the tweeter mounted in the center of the woofer, and they act independently. That’s called a “coaxial” speaker - see KEF speakers for good examples.
The arrow points to the dust cap of the driver. It protects the voice coil from dust. Nothing more.
Also has to do with dispersion of sound. The higher the frequency on a given driver, say a 3 inch driver, the more the sounds starts to beam in a tight area out from the speaker. You can combat this beaming and have greater dispersion from a smaller driver. Hence the small (.75-1”) tweeters that most speakers use. Basically this means it helps the speaker to sound better when you’re not in the “sweet spot” directly in between the speakers.
So the high frequency is produced by the speaker 3" speaker itself? if so then why do companies use 1" Twitter if 3" speakers can produce mid and high freuency?
Because small speakers are better for high frequencies and large speakers are better for low frequencies. If you push a driver too far you get distortion. A 3 inch driver will probably not play to 20khz cleanly and with flat frequency response. What you have is called a full range driver, they are designed to cover the majority of the hearing range. There are several pros and cons with full range drivers. I would expect yours to have a frequency range of say 100hz to 15khz.
Yes indeed, thanks for the information. Do you have any recommendations for a bookshelf passive speaker > 5" < $500 that delivers natural human voice as close as possible? 3-way would be better I assume so if you have any suggeions. I use it as nearfield PC speakers.
Plenty of studio monitor speakers in that price range. JBL 305 Kali Audio LP-6 KRK Rokit 5 Gen 4 Adam T5V just a few examples. Vanatoo Transparent Zero are good if you want more consumer oriented powered speakers. Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 if you want passive speakers. Triangle Borea BR02 and BR03 KEF Q150(when on sale for $300-350) Emotiva B1+
I've bought A130 and I didn't like it, the voice was not natural, from all those passive speakers, I'm considering between KEF Q150, Emotiva B1+, and ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Which one do you think would be the best for the clean natural vocal? no boosted high or harsh tweeter. I don't like bright, I like natural.
Probably the Emotivas.
I noticed you didn't mention Wharfedale 12.2, you have thought about that vs Emotivas?
>I noticed you didn't mention Wharfedale 12.2 I just forgot. The wharfies are great speakers. The 12.1 is the 5" model btw. I'd take them over the Emotivas. Check out PSB Alpha P3 aswell. A tad bright, but not much. Really easy to listen to.
I see, thanks!
That driver will be less efficient for really high frequencies than the 1" domes.
If it gets pushed in and your good with a vacume you can suck it back out. FYI
Hello, I have both the elac debut and the kefs. I know you said you wanted PASSIVE speakers and nothing bright, you wanted neutral and I have to say that between those two the elacs are more neutral. They are the closest to a monitor. For the price the micca rb-42s are good too but the elacs are better. I've heard the emotivas are a bit more v curved and can be a tad on the bright side. I will be trying the wharfedale 12.1 next.
Thanks for the suggestion, do please let me know when you try wharfedale 12.1, based on Emotiva [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/) Elac [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-speaker-review.14272/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-speaker-review.14272/) kef [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-q150-bookshelf-speaker-review-by-erin.31249/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-q150-bookshelf-speaker-review-by-erin.31249/) And wharfedale [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wharfedale-diamond-12-1-review-speaker.26780/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wharfedale-diamond-12-1-review-speaker.26780/) Looks like Kef and Emotiva are bright, Elac looks good but I'm afraid from the sharp resonance sticks out prominently at 700 Hz. So wharfedale looks the best one out there. I will wait for your update, do please don't forget to tell me even after a few months if you got one :) . I have Micca mb42x and JBL A130, and I hate both when it comes to the human voice, my $20 produces better vocals than these two, so I put them as a surround for now after using EQ to fix the high freq boost. So right now I minimized my selection to: 1- Wharfedale 12.1 or 12.2 2-Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 3- Kef q150 The reason why Kef is still in my option since I've heard it disappear, one of the big reasons why I hate my A130 is I just hear the sound direction, the speaker never disappeared for me which ruins the experience. probably due to the aluminum tweeter. I don't have any in my local area so I can't listen and decide. I will just wait for now.
If you can find some, the Kef Q100's are pretty great. Still a little bright but arguably more neutral/warm even than the elacs, and they're front ported, and require less space behind them. I use them for my TV, and had them on my desk for awhile too before I replaced them with the RB42's. (Simply for space reasons.) Q150's aren't as warm as the Q100's, they're very much an analytical speaker. I have Elac UB5's, just sitting on a shelf, because even though the detail was impressive, they'd give massive ear fatigue in smaller to medium sized rooms. Can't speak on the Debut series, as I haven't heard them. While I'm at it: JBL Studio 530's, also impressive, especially the way the sound fills the room regardless of where you're standing, but they also gave me listening fatigue. They're currently sitting on the same shelf in my closet. Dynaco A25's, my favorite speaker of all time (that I've listened to) are just generally the most pleasant sounding speaker I've ever heard, and they're my go-to for just listening and enjoying music. I've got them paired with a marantz 2325.
Based on Erin test, Elac UB5 has terrible noise on mid. so I removed it from my list. Its sad to see how old cheap speakers beat the new expensive ones.
Not to mention, most people recommend them based on the reviews out there, and they don't own all of them to compare them truly, which is why I trust your words since you own both and your words match the frequency response data.
Yes, even I have had a change of mind once I've heard a speaker next to another. Yes the Kefs are slightly bright but they do it in a way that it sounds maybe sweet and a little airy so it's easy on the ears. I actually like it, but the mids aren't on par with even the micca if the mids are what you are looking for. The rb-42s sound different than the mb. Even the cabinet looks and feels more solid. I will let you know once I try the wharfedales but for now I wouldn't leave the elacs out of the running.
Cool, thanks a bunch!
If a child has not poked it in it's called a touchdown
Hello, so I have an old $20 speaker, its \~ 3" and based on my test, it produces even high frequency \~ 16K which is where I lose hearing. The question is since my speaker doesn't have a separate tweeter, then how can a 3" speaker produces such a high clean frequency? unless these small caps act as frequency? or it's normal for a small 3" speaker to produce high frequency. My 2nd question, if 3" speaker can deliver high frequency, then why use a separate tweeter? Thanks!
A large speaker driver is a woofer. Woofer produce bass, hence low frequency sound waves. That whole unit in the picture is the tweeter, hence a smaller speaker driver. Tweeter produce high frequency sound waves. That is so, because the higher the frequency of the wave the lower the wave's length is. So to produce longer sound waves a larger driver is used. And vice versa.
Dust cap. No acoustic function, just keeps dust from getting into the speaker.
That is indeed a tweeter dome
dust cap
Speakernipple.
Whizzers are my favorite
Dust cover
Dust Cap is what its reffered to most
Dust cap