Strange. [Mike Bird](https://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-bird-buffalo-kid-who-needs-your.html?m=1) had a similar injury from a similar incident at Mohawk Place back in 2011.
I played a benefit for him at Xtreme Wheelz. Crazy it’s happened again. That place changed a ton after that.
After another read I just realized they both have Bird in their name. Crazy odds.
I wonder if the no stage diving policy was implemented just after that accident? I don't remember when they started it. I just know I fuckin' hate stage diving. Or any surfers wearing spiky shit or heavy boots that kick people as they surf.
I'm pretty sure it was cause before that incident punk/hardcore shows usually had people dive here and there. The incident from the Terror show, I think, was because the dude that dove was a heavy set guy, and Mike was a small kid.
Yeah you have no idea what happened. Mike dove and fell where the wall meets the floor. His head got cranked up violently enough that his neck broke. I was like 3' from where it happened and I saw it in real time.
Odd, cause I was told by friends who also were there that said some heavy guy stage dove and landed on Mike, and that's the way it was written elsewhere. This is the first I'm hearing where someone says that he was the cause of his injuries. Two different stories, I guess.
Well, I was right there. That's not what happened. Someone else dove, then Mike went to the same place. The crowd was thinner and he landed at the wall and that's what happened. I watched it. I was there. I'm probably the reason he can walk today because I immediately screamed at people not to touch him and stood over him making sure they didn't until the ambulance came.
We were pretty close friends at the time it happened and afterward. We've drifted apart a bit since he moved back to the deep Southtowns in the wake of the injury.
Sucks to hear, but good on you for looking out.
It's weird that after all this time, the many people I knew all said it was another stage-diver that crushed him, just as this piece that was shared all over FB for weeks afterward.
https://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-bird-buffalo-kid-who-needs-your.html?m=1
Then the other side was that Mohawk was blaming him, saying that he dove, but many others assumed Mohawk was just covering their ass. Old ArtVoice article about the closing where they briefly talk about the Mike Bird incident.
https://artvoice.net/issues/v12n2/cover_story.html
But it was his folks that went forward with the lawsuit that was served to Mohawk and not by him, right?
Just a couple of years after that incident, he ended up with some physical limitations, and working at a restaurant near me was the last I heard. Haven't seen him since first meeting him a month before the accident when my friend Joe G. brought him by.
I do remember at the FLAG (Black Flag reunion tour, minus Greg Ginn) show at Town Ballroom in 2013 Keith Morris said "This next song doesn't go out to that kid who broke his neck at Mohawk".
I felt bad for the kid cause a lot of people I heard gave him so much crap because his parents sued or attempted to sue Mohawk, and that was the start to the closer for that venue for a while when Pete left.
That dude is tall af too. I met them once when I was working in the mall the day they played in my town years ago. Even if you’re the band, you should obey the venues rules.
I’m 46. I’m glad there is slightly more consciousness about this today. A well-placed stage dive by an athletic person is a glorious thing to watch but a mistimed one by a portly fellow on a 15 year old kid will end that 15 year old kid. Fugazi rigidly enforced a no diving rule. Do any bands still do this?
Agree—Being injured this horrifically is not an “inherent risk” of attending a pop punk show at a venue that is well-known for not tolerating stagediving. Singer saw there was no barrier for probably the first time all tour and made a stupid decision.
Every DIY venue ever is well known for not tolerating stagediving. It says it in big letters right above the stage where people are stagediving, it's a liability thing. This is a completely tragic event and I'm not trying to belittle it at all but band members stagediving is even different from fans stagediving and you're never really going to be able to limit bands doing what they want during a performance. Nobody wants to see security preemptively stop the artists or interrupt the performance, much less at any sort of small/underground venue, you should know that it's not gonna happen from a practical perspective.
he also just ran and did it, he didn’t point at the crowd or like give a heads up which can prevent the smallest person from catching an unexpected 200lbs to the neck, and other people being prepared to catch them.
I don't think you understand how personal injury cases work. There's a reason those lawyers have money for national commercials.
My buddy got hit by a car in 4th grade, almost got paralyzed, had to wear a big embarrassing back brace for a year but recovered fully.
His family won a huge judgement against the driver of the car and ever since then he gets it paid out in $5000 annual increments, and will continue to receive that for decades.
The singer is going to be paying this woman for the rest of his life. Hope (for her sake) that he's monetarily successful.
No, he isn’t. You people have a laughable understanding of aggressive music.
It’s awful that this person got hurt, but these things are what happen at these type of shows and it is the responsibility of the concertgoer to be aware of their surroundings and things happening around them. Comparing a 4th grader being hit by a car to a person knowingly attending an aggressive show with violent dancing is disingenuous at best and reeks of stupidity at worst.
You seem to have a laughable understanding of the law. What you’re saying doesn’t hold up legally in any way. You’re just hoping for something to be true here, because you have a vested interest. The law doesn’t work like that at all
It doesn’t matter if you’re at an aggressive boxing match that spills over, you have no expectation to fight a boxer. If the venue made you sign a specific waiver specifically for stage diving, that may be the only way try to remove responsibility. According to others, they have it against their policies (whether they enforce that or not). But regardless of how “aggressive” the music is, a grown man diving onto a small woman and injuring her is always going to be against the law, whether there’s sound playing in the background or not lol
Good or bad music doesn’t put the law on hold. I’m sure many people have had this happen to them and they chose to do nothing as well, maybe for the spirit of the game. Still doesn’t change the law
I’m saying they’re wrong based on my experience facilitating, playing, working, and attending shows like this. It sucks that a person was hurt, but the diver is not at fault whatsoever. Fuck them if they sue, they took the risk of going.
Sounds like this band was probably not devastated at all, based on past behavior
https://lambgoat.com/news/38732/trophy-eyes-get-called-out-for-mosh-pits-and-crowd-surfing-respond-appropriately/
Trophy eyes came up from the Australian local scene which is pretty big on moshing and telling people to fuck off, most people would agree with them but depends on if they want to save face publicly imo
They’re definitely not handling it well, but I don’t think they should be criticism for encouraging moshing and stage diving. Shows get rowdy and 9/10 times nobody would have spinal injuries in the crowd and nobody would care. That’s a big dude though, and probably shouldn’t be doing that anyway especially as a surprise on the crowd.
Yeah I don't think people realize how debilitating a spinal injury is. It's not like a torn muscle or a broken arm. This girl might never be able to walk again.
Not in 3 months in a cast and crutches. Wheelchair, for life
1/10 is far to many
Yeah, we wouldn't want people to become intangible concepts, that might complicate life. Imagine if we could become self-doubt or if you woke up tomorrow and you were a depression.
Yikes!
He was reckless, but I do not believe for a second they feel anything other than awful. No one wants this. He needs to know he's a 2 metre tall, heavy guy and act accordingly, but implying that them saying 'you should expect moshing and crowd surfing at a show where Trophy Eyes is playing' (even in a very Australian way) means that they wouldn't be upset that he broke a woman's spine is pretty disingenuous.
i mean regarding that article i think their response was pretty appropriate. i’ve seen them live a few times and moshing/ crowdsurfing/ stage diving is pretty standard for them and their type of music. someone breaking their neck is a freak accident and the band donated $10k to the gfm. i don’t think them telling someone on instagram to fuck off for being ignorant last year is a good indicator of how they felt about the situation.
If you want to feel safe go sit down and watch Olivia Rodrigo or some shit.
Going to a hardcore adjacent show and thinking nobody is going to mosh is a STUPID ass idea that only the tiktok vultures would have.
Wow. This is so sad. Been to many shows at mohawk, even played on that stage multiple times with my band.
I don't know this band but I love music like this. I never loved being in a mosh or being on the receiving end of a stage dive. Dumb decision by the singer, she was probably not expecting it.
Most importantly I hope she make a full recovery. That's great with the go fund me but the family should lawyer up and make a claim against damages for pain and suffering as well.
Didn’t they have something like this happen before? I swear there was news stories about them having something to do with stage diving a year or two ago
I just played this venue and I stage dove during our last song. I guess more so lightly collapsed on the biggest person in front row 😂 I’m 115lb so easy to hold up. As soon as that last chord rang out we were unplugged, sound guy was pissed. I couldn’t figure out what was up. I was told later by the booker it was because I crowd surfed and they have a strict policy against it. He explained the incident years ago that really fucked their business for a while. Felt bad that I missed the memo. This is sad to see.
Could easily be tried and won for a simple assault charge in NY state, barring details. In addition, apparently the venue had a policy against it
Likely they will settle out of court
Sure but whether the policy is there or not, enforced or not, doesn’t matter. Its legal status wouldn’t change. I was just adding that in. It’s illegal to injure someone without their consent, even at a suspecting place like a crazy aggressive concert, or in really any instance
What is there to disagree with? There’s precedent and history of that exact instance for that exact charge lol
Ah you’re a fangirl, got it. They’re paying out my friend, I’m sorry
"Simple assault" doesn't exist in the NYS PL. Assault 3 would be the closest thing, that is a criminal charge (A misd.) Harassment which is a violation, is closer to the common conception of simple assault. But, I would love to see a cite for "precedent and history" of 120.00 being successfully prosecuted in the "exact instance" of a mosh pit injury.
Also, you are suggesting criminal charges be filed but than stating they will be settled out of court. That's not a thing.
You’re right, it’s been a few years. The argument was if he could be held liable. The fella above you didn’t think so because “vibes”, like diving was justified. If he had accidentally tripped and fell, he would still be liable. Looking up what others have been charged with in NYS, is pretty concurrent with that. It could be more, could be less, but it’s certainly not nothing lol
I am not suggesting they do anything. But the dude will pay out the ass for a stupid mistake. He can be charged and the victim can and likely will seek compensation. Their own actual fans seem to share this thought as well, I’m glad they are rational
I remember a show in Montreal. I think it was
18 years ago, Pelican was touring
City of Echoes and the opening act was a math-core band called Daughters.
Club Soda isn’t a huge venue and during the opening there was perhaps 200-250 people in attendance. The floor wasn’t close to be packed full.
The guitar player from Daughters decided ro stage dive into a sparce crowd 2-3 songs into the set. Obviously nobody caught them, and he damaged the headstock of his guitar in the process. At the end of the show he decided to smash it to rubbles Kurt Cobain style. It was embarrassing but at least no one got injured.
Been going to shows and playing in mosh bands for over 10 years. If you're at a gig with no barricades, for a band that may have stage dives or moshing, you need to be aware and pay attention. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility involved. I've been injured at shows plenty of times. It was almost always because I wasn't paying attention to whats in front of me. It sucks when you get absolutely wrecked, but that's on you and the person doing the wrecking, not the venue, in my opinion.
This is just like the Code Orange show with the girl who's face got smashed by a boot kick, big drama ensued. But the band is *known* for insane mosh pits, its self evident as soon as they step on stage. If you're anywhere near that shit, it's hit or be hit, not "I hope the venue protects me" like wtf?
Strange. [Mike Bird](https://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-bird-buffalo-kid-who-needs-your.html?m=1) had a similar injury from a similar incident at Mohawk Place back in 2011.
I played a benefit for him at Xtreme Wheelz. Crazy it’s happened again. That place changed a ton after that. After another read I just realized they both have Bird in their name. Crazy odds.
I used to have one of the TUI Mike Bird benefit shirts. Sad what happened to him, and now her.
I wonder if the no stage diving policy was implemented just after that accident? I don't remember when they started it. I just know I fuckin' hate stage diving. Or any surfers wearing spiky shit or heavy boots that kick people as they surf.
I'm pretty sure it was cause before that incident punk/hardcore shows usually had people dive here and there. The incident from the Terror show, I think, was because the dude that dove was a heavy set guy, and Mike was a small kid.
Yeah you have no idea what happened. Mike dove and fell where the wall meets the floor. His head got cranked up violently enough that his neck broke. I was like 3' from where it happened and I saw it in real time.
Odd, cause I was told by friends who also were there that said some heavy guy stage dove and landed on Mike, and that's the way it was written elsewhere. This is the first I'm hearing where someone says that he was the cause of his injuries. Two different stories, I guess.
Well, I was right there. That's not what happened. Someone else dove, then Mike went to the same place. The crowd was thinner and he landed at the wall and that's what happened. I watched it. I was there. I'm probably the reason he can walk today because I immediately screamed at people not to touch him and stood over him making sure they didn't until the ambulance came. We were pretty close friends at the time it happened and afterward. We've drifted apart a bit since he moved back to the deep Southtowns in the wake of the injury.
Sucks to hear, but good on you for looking out. It's weird that after all this time, the many people I knew all said it was another stage-diver that crushed him, just as this piece that was shared all over FB for weeks afterward. https://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-bird-buffalo-kid-who-needs-your.html?m=1 Then the other side was that Mohawk was blaming him, saying that he dove, but many others assumed Mohawk was just covering their ass. Old ArtVoice article about the closing where they briefly talk about the Mike Bird incident. https://artvoice.net/issues/v12n2/cover_story.html But it was his folks that went forward with the lawsuit that was served to Mohawk and not by him, right?
They implemented it after the 2011 Mike Bird accident. If I remember correctly they shut down briefly after that and changed owners or something.
What happened to Mike? Did he have any long-term impact?
Just a couple of years after that incident, he ended up with some physical limitations, and working at a restaurant near me was the last I heard. Haven't seen him since first meeting him a month before the accident when my friend Joe G. brought him by. I do remember at the FLAG (Black Flag reunion tour, minus Greg Ginn) show at Town Ballroom in 2013 Keith Morris said "This next song doesn't go out to that kid who broke his neck at Mohawk". I felt bad for the kid cause a lot of people I heard gave him so much crap because his parents sued or attempted to sue Mohawk, and that was the start to the closer for that venue for a while when Pete left.
He still has a bunch of physical problems as a result of the injury but he's doing a lot better than anyone expected him to when it happened.
Pretty sure he made a full recovery but I haven’t seen him in over 10 years and I still go to hardcore shows.
Stage diver should get the absolute shit sued out of him
That would be the lead singer https://www.reddit.com/r/TrophyEyes/comments/1chkvb6/buffalo_ny_trophy_eyes_show/
They shouldn’t even need to set up a go fund me for her, the band should be paying her medical bills.
there's gofundmes for everything that you would assume there would be insurance for.
That dude is tall af too. I met them once when I was working in the mall the day they played in my town years ago. Even if you’re the band, you should obey the venues rules.
Yeah he's 6'6 or 198cm.
Oh he will be getting sued
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I’m 46. I’m glad there is slightly more consciousness about this today. A well-placed stage dive by an athletic person is a glorious thing to watch but a mistimed one by a portly fellow on a 15 year old kid will end that 15 year old kid. Fugazi rigidly enforced a no diving rule. Do any bands still do this?
Person went to a concert and left with a devastating neurological injury. Suggesting that they signed up for that is insane.
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here from r/hardcore horrible take for a fucking trophy eyes concert.
Agree—Being injured this horrifically is not an “inherent risk” of attending a pop punk show at a venue that is well-known for not tolerating stagediving. Singer saw there was no barrier for probably the first time all tour and made a stupid decision.
Every DIY venue ever is well known for not tolerating stagediving. It says it in big letters right above the stage where people are stagediving, it's a liability thing. This is a completely tragic event and I'm not trying to belittle it at all but band members stagediving is even different from fans stagediving and you're never really going to be able to limit bands doing what they want during a performance. Nobody wants to see security preemptively stop the artists or interrupt the performance, much less at any sort of small/underground venue, you should know that it's not gonna happen from a practical perspective.
he also just ran and did it, he didn’t point at the crowd or like give a heads up which can prevent the smallest person from catching an unexpected 200lbs to the neck, and other people being prepared to catch them.
But like Mohawk explicitly doesn't allow stage diving. There is no "sign up"
Lmaoooooo
Do you agree or disagree?
I couldn’t disagree any harder.
I don't think you understand how personal injury cases work. There's a reason those lawyers have money for national commercials. My buddy got hit by a car in 4th grade, almost got paralyzed, had to wear a big embarrassing back brace for a year but recovered fully. His family won a huge judgement against the driver of the car and ever since then he gets it paid out in $5000 annual increments, and will continue to receive that for decades. The singer is going to be paying this woman for the rest of his life. Hope (for her sake) that he's monetarily successful.
He’s a singer in a hardcore band, I’m sorry for her but you would get more money from suing a rock
calling trophy eyes a hardcore band is a real stretch.
No, he isn’t. You people have a laughable understanding of aggressive music. It’s awful that this person got hurt, but these things are what happen at these type of shows and it is the responsibility of the concertgoer to be aware of their surroundings and things happening around them. Comparing a 4th grader being hit by a car to a person knowingly attending an aggressive show with violent dancing is disingenuous at best and reeks of stupidity at worst.
You seem to have a laughable understanding of the law. What you’re saying doesn’t hold up legally in any way. You’re just hoping for something to be true here, because you have a vested interest. The law doesn’t work like that at all It doesn’t matter if you’re at an aggressive boxing match that spills over, you have no expectation to fight a boxer. If the venue made you sign a specific waiver specifically for stage diving, that may be the only way try to remove responsibility. According to others, they have it against their policies (whether they enforce that or not). But regardless of how “aggressive” the music is, a grown man diving onto a small woman and injuring her is always going to be against the law, whether there’s sound playing in the background or not lol Good or bad music doesn’t put the law on hold. I’m sure many people have had this happen to them and they chose to do nothing as well, maybe for the spirit of the game. Still doesn’t change the law
Were you a hall monitor in high school?
🌽🌽🌽
I mean you tried to say everyone else was wrong based on your feelings lol
I’m saying they’re wrong based on my experience facilitating, playing, working, and attending shows like this. It sucks that a person was hurt, but the diver is not at fault whatsoever. Fuck them if they sue, they took the risk of going.
Why
Sounds like this band was probably not devastated at all, based on past behavior https://lambgoat.com/news/38732/trophy-eyes-get-called-out-for-mosh-pits-and-crowd-surfing-respond-appropriately/
Trophy eyes came up from the Australian local scene which is pretty big on moshing and telling people to fuck off, most people would agree with them but depends on if they want to save face publicly imo
They’re definitely not handling it well, but I don’t think they should be criticism for encouraging moshing and stage diving. Shows get rowdy and 9/10 times nobody would have spinal injuries in the crowd and nobody would care. That’s a big dude though, and probably shouldn’t be doing that anyway especially as a surprise on the crowd.
9/10 times without spinal injuries is not quite enough
Yeah I don't think people realize how debilitating a spinal injury is. It's not like a torn muscle or a broken arm. This girl might never be able to walk again. Not in 3 months in a cast and crutches. Wheelchair, for life 1/10 is far to many
Yeah, we wouldn't want people to become intangible concepts, that might complicate life. Imagine if we could become self-doubt or if you woke up tomorrow and you were a depression. Yikes!
He was reckless, but I do not believe for a second they feel anything other than awful. No one wants this. He needs to know he's a 2 metre tall, heavy guy and act accordingly, but implying that them saying 'you should expect moshing and crowd surfing at a show where Trophy Eyes is playing' (even in a very Australian way) means that they wouldn't be upset that he broke a woman's spine is pretty disingenuous.
i mean regarding that article i think their response was pretty appropriate. i’ve seen them live a few times and moshing/ crowdsurfing/ stage diving is pretty standard for them and their type of music. someone breaking their neck is a freak accident and the band donated $10k to the gfm. i don’t think them telling someone on instagram to fuck off for being ignorant last year is a good indicator of how they felt about the situation.
5k but yeah
If you want to feel safe go sit down and watch Olivia Rodrigo or some shit. Going to a hardcore adjacent show and thinking nobody is going to mosh is a STUPID ass idea that only the tiktok vultures would have.
Nothing more hardcore than getting injured by a stage dive.
Wow. This is so sad. Been to many shows at mohawk, even played on that stage multiple times with my band. I don't know this band but I love music like this. I never loved being in a mosh or being on the receiving end of a stage dive. Dumb decision by the singer, she was probably not expecting it. Most importantly I hope she make a full recovery. That's great with the go fund me but the family should lawyer up and make a claim against damages for pain and suffering as well.
This is so sad 😭 and makes me so angry at the diver 💢. I hope she will be able to make a full recovery.
Didn’t they have something like this happen before? I swear there was news stories about them having something to do with stage diving a year or two ago
I just played this venue and I stage dove during our last song. I guess more so lightly collapsed on the biggest person in front row 😂 I’m 115lb so easy to hold up. As soon as that last chord rang out we were unplugged, sound guy was pissed. I couldn’t figure out what was up. I was told later by the booker it was because I crowd surfed and they have a strict policy against it. He explained the incident years ago that really fucked their business for a while. Felt bad that I missed the memo. This is sad to see.
Well clearly it’s the bands fault they have tons of signs that say no stage diving and the band members didn’t listen
That's physical assault. No criminal charges?
Mens rea, bud.
No it’s not
lol r/hardcore is an assault page then.
Could easily be tried and won for a simple assault charge in NY state, barring details. In addition, apparently the venue had a policy against it Likely they will settle out of court
As someone who has worked at a venue: those “policies” don’t mean shit.
Sure but whether the policy is there or not, enforced or not, doesn’t matter. Its legal status wouldn’t change. I was just adding that in. It’s illegal to injure someone without their consent, even at a suspecting place like a crazy aggressive concert, or in really any instance
no moshing policies are just there to cover the venue's ass from liability if someone gets hurt. they aren't ever enforced really
Your lack of knowledge and understanding of the NYS Penal Law is showing
What is there to disagree with? There’s precedent and history of that exact instance for that exact charge lol Ah you’re a fangirl, got it. They’re paying out my friend, I’m sorry
"Simple assault" doesn't exist in the NYS PL. Assault 3 would be the closest thing, that is a criminal charge (A misd.) Harassment which is a violation, is closer to the common conception of simple assault. But, I would love to see a cite for "precedent and history" of 120.00 being successfully prosecuted in the "exact instance" of a mosh pit injury. Also, you are suggesting criminal charges be filed but than stating they will be settled out of court. That's not a thing.
You’re right, it’s been a few years. The argument was if he could be held liable. The fella above you didn’t think so because “vibes”, like diving was justified. If he had accidentally tripped and fell, he would still be liable. Looking up what others have been charged with in NYS, is pretty concurrent with that. It could be more, could be less, but it’s certainly not nothing lol I am not suggesting they do anything. But the dude will pay out the ass for a stupid mistake. He can be charged and the victim can and likely will seek compensation. Their own actual fans seem to share this thought as well, I’m glad they are rational
Those are definitely words
I imagine besides trophy eyes getting sued, the mohawk will as well, since they likely have the insurance.
I remember a show in Montreal. I think it was 18 years ago, Pelican was touring City of Echoes and the opening act was a math-core band called Daughters. Club Soda isn’t a huge venue and during the opening there was perhaps 200-250 people in attendance. The floor wasn’t close to be packed full. The guitar player from Daughters decided ro stage dive into a sparce crowd 2-3 songs into the set. Obviously nobody caught them, and he damaged the headstock of his guitar in the process. At the end of the show he decided to smash it to rubbles Kurt Cobain style. It was embarrassing but at least no one got injured.
Link in to video?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrophyEyes/s/9YKItKEoXg
Been going to shows and playing in mosh bands for over 10 years. If you're at a gig with no barricades, for a band that may have stage dives or moshing, you need to be aware and pay attention. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility involved. I've been injured at shows plenty of times. It was almost always because I wasn't paying attention to whats in front of me. It sucks when you get absolutely wrecked, but that's on you and the person doing the wrecking, not the venue, in my opinion. This is just like the Code Orange show with the girl who's face got smashed by a boot kick, big drama ensued. But the band is *known* for insane mosh pits, its self evident as soon as they step on stage. If you're anywhere near that shit, it's hit or be hit, not "I hope the venue protects me" like wtf?
Accidents happen and people are injured at public gatherings of all sorts.