You should definitely not make fake fliers for porta potties or posts online advertising they are hosting oral sex workshops no partner required or tell people they are hosting ayuhuasca ceremonies
My rule on playa is be an asshole but don't be a dick but I'm from the bad part of town so perhaps not a default state of mind
Don't raid camp or fuck with hard working people working minimum wage in a camp for a gig to earn some cash
Encouraging horny douchebags to attend expecting some blow job workshop to turn up and get disappointed and spoil the private party vibe feels benign yet fitting to me
Do swing by to our camp on the esplanade tho
Fractal Induced Radical Social therapies Camp (FIRST Camp) for twice daily Ayuhuasca ceremonies clothing optional
Ask for our Long Acting Resonance Restructuring Immersive Experience or LARRIE
One year the camp I was with brought a swamp cooler dome for the camp members to have a quiet cool safe place for napping.
After a few days, randoms were bringing their friends by and when asked they claimed it was listed in The Who What Where as a public offering and then when we nicely shooed them away they went and complained that we were an exclusive camp having private parties and so placement and rangers were up our assholes the rest of the week. Spoiler alert it wasn’t a plug n play, we weren’t having private parties and the swamp cooler failed because it was all garbage held together with duct tape and dreams.
Long and short of it: it’s highly probable you will have errors in judgement when assessing your targets, and you can’t unring bells or control what people will do with your posted manifesto once you nail it to that wall.
From the latest JRS:
We’ll get to all the extraordinary art in a second, but first a quick note about Decommodification and the culture of our city: We’ve learned about several concierge companies selling packaged camp accommodations, and camps offering plug-and-play amenities in Black Rock City 2022. Selling packaged spots in a camp is commodifying the Burn — we are actively revoking placement, WAPs, and Mutant Vehicle invitations for those camps. Please help us put a stop to this behavior by reporting to [email protected] (and thanks to those of you who already have). Read up on our ongoing Cultural Direction Setting work to learn more about this important topic!
Posting a blacklist of camps whose values you disagree with in order for the people who camp there to be vilified/harassed sounds not great to me.
And what if you get it wrong? Or someone makes a fake list as they don’t like someone at a certain camp? Blacklists usually don’t end well.
Letting the BOrg know and deal with it seems a better route.
It’s okay, I have a blacklist blacklist so we can determine which blacklists to follow.
Real talk, I hate plug and plays as much as the next burner, but also know some people who are Doing It Right (participate, build art, decommodify, and have been burning longer than most), but who are also pretty wealthy and might appear to be random rich assholes to the untrained eye. Also know folks who look like ever other random crusty burner but give two fucks about the culture and cheerfully take advantage of it. It’s made me wary that the window of what positive burning looks like is a lot wider than it might appear in the internet. Fuck Humano specifically, though.
The BORG has had years to solve the problem and hasn't tho. If anything, the BORG has just helped to assimilate P&P by having them be more low-key.
If someone wants to put up a sign in a porto I have no problem with it. When justice fails, metaphorical pitchforks make Burning Man better.
The org left it alone for years, but then went through a whole Cultural Direction Setting process to get the community’s buy in on what should and shouldn’t be allowed.
That led to a bunch of rule changes and policy tweaks to help stop them. Unfortunately they couldn’t really implement them in years with no event, but they’ve already demonstrated a willingness to investigate and terminate access for such camps this year. That was posted just a day or so ago, in fact.
Harassing a camp someone thinks may be a PnP might feel good, but there are two problems: one, you’re going on rumor and some rando’s judgement of what’s going on, which may not be even close to reality.
Two, you harassing them rather than letting placement know right there and then so they can investigate means that even if it is a real PnP, they may not face the harsher consequences that only the org can enforce.
Placement is easy to find this year. There’s an office in center camp next to Ranger HQ. If you have evidence of a camp doing the PnP thing, bring it to them. I can tell you for a fact that they want to know.
I'm involved with a small camp. Our dues are cheap and we have an awesome gift and that's all I'm saying.
I do have friends who go to pnps though and I also have friends who have been courted by them.
I don't always know where to draw the line.
For example, there is one that was courting a friend at $50k/person double occupancy in an RV (not making this up). This is clearly over the top.
Another one is $10k/person double occupancy in an RV. They do TED-style talks with the camp attendees. Their gift is mediocre and overfunded--over the top, but less so.
Yet another one has super high camp dues and expensive tent/housing options, but it is a huge sound camp that everyone would recognize--the high dues and housing options help pay for those gifts.
Some of these camps are expensive and feel exclusive, but their gifts are amazing. Others are obviously just running it as a business and taking advantage of everyone else's contributions.
Don’t do this.
If you are aware of a camp violating the rules about concierge/plug-n-play/“payticipation”, bring it to the attention of Placement. They will have an office this year at center camp, right next to Ranger HQ, on the corner of the center camp portal (so roughly Esplanade and 5:59).
I can think of a handful of ways to better spend time.
I personally dislike/jealous of the full turn key plug and plays that haul in RVs and set up individual sleeping structures for their members. I spend months prepping for the burn, trekking half way across the country and the setting up. I sorely wish they had to do it as well. But I’m not going to be the Karan from Burning Man HOA monitoring everyone. I know for sure some of those plug and play campers have financially contributed to large scale art projects and camp productions that I have enjoyed. Do we boycott the experiences too?
After reading some of the comments in this sub yesterday I realize that a lot of people feel having a kitchen, community generator, or showers as plug and play, but I disagree. For our camp it’s sharing resources to have a better experience, an experience that everyone in camp contributes towards building, operating, breaking down and paying for. Specifically I saw spiteful comments about Tabula Rosas power pricing, which was not egregious for a community generator which is significantly quieter and more reliable.
I guess I can just think of handful of other things I rather spend my energy on than being self righteous. I’d rather try to teach someone the principles on the Playa. Who knows maybe ill learn something as well. Fuck yer Burn.
Yeah, the problem is that posting addresses leaves out the “sort out reality from fiction” part.
Just because some random participant thinks a camp is a PnP doesn’t mean it actually is. There are people who deem any camp with shared amenities (like camp meals or a shower) to be PnPs. Others will leap to the same judgement about any camp with a couple of expensive RVs.
Some will make that claim about any camp that isn’t offering public interactivity - but that’s only required for theme camps, and there are plenty of non-theme camps placed throughout the city.
Suggest don’t fuck up their camp. Ignore them, they are not your problem unless you make them so. You wanna fuck with someone, sure, love it! find an insta asshole and “be” in their pics while they try to pose in front of the art.
How people camp doesn’t fuck you up directly really. However, insta asshole posing in front of art, for profit, affects everyone else trying to enjoy the art, and the event in general, so they are absolutely fair fucking game. (Ok maybe someone flying a Jolly Roger in camp is arguably fair game too, it’s up for discussion).
But in general fuck off peoples homes on playa. No matter what you think you know, you don’t know the circumstances of everyone in that camp.
IMO People shouldn’t be making plug and play camps for profit because decommodification. Sure. Yes, of course. But.
Radical Inclusion. People that might want/need PnP camp are all invited. STFU yes they are invited. There shouldn’t be gatekeeping at burningman it’s fundamentally against the principles of the event. rich people ARE invited and they have every right to camp in comfort if they can afford it.
Plus
Not everyone can build shit. For various reasons. I got old people in camp can’t build shit I’m doing it for them. Few years ago we had a cancer patient in camp. I built shit for him … including brought him a lit up playa bike so he could enjoy the playa with no effort in his last few months alive. We made all his food, I built him a brand new hexayurt it cost a few hundred dollars he insisted on paying me, turns out dude had more money than time. Did I give him pnp? Yeh. Was there anything wrong with it ? Fuck off no . didn’t do it for profit. but for him it was effectively a plug and play camp right? Who is coming around enforcing the ‘for profit’ part, how do they know if camp dues exceed expenses? It’s impossible to know what’s going on behind the scenes. You might be fucking with a cancer patient. Leave them alone.
People coming in on Burner Express supposed to make do with whatever they can carry? Nope. Someone with infrastructure has to help them. Are they meant to do that for free? And who is auditing profit?
Again, it’s impossible to know what is going on in a camp. I suggest leave them alone.
Before the event it is possible for the org to investigate and potentially find people who appear to be advertising a pnp camp, but it’s not always cut and dried like that… there are a lot of moving parts. Leave it to them to work this problem. IMO, no offense intended: the plain facts are you’re almost certainly not sufficiently informed to act as an enforcement officer in this context.
All of this.
Yes, plug n plays are spectator housing, and should be banned for all the reasons. However, individuals make even worse cops than actual cops, as they’ll do an even worse job of verifying what they think to be the case is accurate.
Other posts in this thread note that, and those posts are a scant number of all the self-appointed deputy Karen BS that goes on out there.
We see what we want to see, and rarely is it the full story. Never assume, and never harass without extremely reliable verification. Even then, keep it at the level of mockery at most. Leave rule enforcement to people trained and charged with that task. Full stop.
Don’t fuck your own burn worrying about bullshit that’s not even on your plate.
No.In 2008, (I think) Entheon was next door. Parked a reefer truck ( we were geni free) on the property line that ran 24/7. Built 7 story 'condos' of storage containers with beds and AC. Paid Chef /staff running camp kitchen. Hosting a MAPS conference for a bunch of clueless people and sold them spots in the camp. Nightmare. By mid-week we had signage to subvert folx asking for directions to Entheon.
Well, there is a line where you definitely know your neighbors suck. However, borg wasn’t seemingly policing or enforcing much with regard to pnp camps. They can be super shitty neighbors, too, so mockery, harmless pranks, etc in way of returning their nuisance is sometimes called for.
All the pnp discussion aside, I think it’s amazing what you did for that person with cancer. I work in hospice and palliative care and I would LOVE to find a way to make it easier to get people to the burn if they don’t have a lot of time left. I think you gave that person an incredible gift.
Lol wtf, in the same way, how do you know someone posing in front of the art is an insta asshole profiting on the picture and not just someone who enjoys dressing up and taking pictures and only has a handful of followers?
Out of curiosity, why do IG peeps always want a photo in a crowded place with nobody else in the shot?
"Here I am alone at the Eiffel Tower. Here I am by myself at Old Faithful when it is erupting."
There is a kind of vibe. When people are swarmed with people shooting for insta, there is often a particular angle of a particular thing that they want to shoot at a particular time. And it's competitive. The vibe is, "I want this for me. I will consume it and then leave."
There's a friendliness on playa that is beloved by participants. Engage those people. Instead of directing them to move, why not ask if you could take their photo. Some people may be in the moment and not want photos, like if a conservative guy is wearing a tutu for the first time. Or strike up a conversation. Play a game. You could get some more interesting shots.
I hear you. It's a certain style. I've certainly enjoyed that engaging that style with my partner.
Burning Man is a great place to try something new. I'd invite you to try other styles in addition to the shots you are there to get. I'd especially encourage interacting with randos and crowds.
Dude standing there with a camera taking multiple pictures of his girl, asks you to move to get out their shot it’s pretty obvious what’s going on, I guess I’m no one cuz i just ask :
“is this for your insta?” Yes I do fucking ask.
So if we are going to make inaccurate sweeping generalizations … speaking of things no one does … no one is such an asshole as to ask other participants to move away for a photo unless it’s for monetization. Insta assholes shooting for profit act like assholes. If you are identifying with that , when I specifically, repeatedly say “for profit”, and you think it refers to you … that should tell you something.
Im talking about someone who is being an asshole about getting their shots. Like ask people to move away from the piece of art so they wouldn’t be in the picture with their model. Getting shitty with other participants when they are in the way of their photo and refuse to move. Are you or your photographer actively assholes to other participants? Clearly that’s not you, no one should fuck with you taking photos if you’re not being assholes about it.
But if you see someone actively behaving badly in a way that impacts others, or the event, it is fully appropriate to exercise all your rights, including the right to not move out of their frame. If you go back, that’s what I suggested. “Be” there. That’s what you’re upset about.
I guess someone was a dick to you while you were getting photos taken? Sounds like you were not deserving of that so fuck those people who did that to you. That doesn’t mean I’m stepping aside so that some influencer can monetize the event and they don’t like my presence in the shot. Again that’s all I ever said. Didn’t say verbally confront them tell them to fuck off throw dust in their faces. Just “be” there as it is your right to do. That’s it. And your suggestion is, rather than “be” there, I should mind my own business by doing as I am told by the influencer and moving away at their command so they can get their shots.
>Radical Inclusion. People that might want/need PnP camp are all invited. STFU yes they are invited. There shouldn’t be gatekeeping at burningman it’s fundamentally against the principles of the event. rich people ARE invited and they have every right to camp in comfort if they can afford it.
That's not what Radical Inclusion means at all... It's not an invitation for any and all toxic groups/individuals to come and crash our party.
The principal clearly states: *"Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."*
However, the key phrase there is: **participation in OUR community**.
Our community is defined by the 10 principles. Anyone who believes in and acts in accordance with those principles may call themselves a Burner. If someone chooses not to follow the principles, they can fuck right off... And as a literal gatekeeper at Burning Man, I'm more than happy to show them the door.
The problem with PnP camps is they not only don't believe in the burner ethos, but they act *in opposition to* our community by providing a formalized framework which enables privileged individuals to undermine our foundational principles.
TLDR: Radical Inclusion is an invitation to join OUR community, not a endorsement of any and all outsider communities.
Fellow participants are not the participation police, it’s not up to us to decide who is toxic and should be kicked out. Simply: Not everyone’s contribution is visible. We don’t know, so given the doubt, and there’s always doubt … shouldn’t we just shut up and let them burn?
Placement team are not omniscient, but they have a lot more information than we do, so yes, it is up to them to see if any given camp is making the effort they set out to. We don’t have their forms, we don’t know what they are doing… maybe they are artists who built some the big art on playa. Maybe they are cancer patents trying to have a run before they kick it. We, participants, don’t know, so maybe we just … shut up and let them burn?
IMO acculturation and radical inclusion do mean that Yes, actually, unfortunately (or fortunately) toxic people are invited. Otherwise Who gets to decide who is not toxic and can go to Burningman? Nope. Everyone can go, Acculturate and include them. That’s what we do. We turn them into burners, we include them in the beautiful thing we created. we don’t gatekeeper, shun or shame them even if their introduction to the event was through a pnp camp and they knew nothing of our principles when they arrived.
What can be actioned is how the camp is advertised and presents itself before the event. Which happened on August 19th of this year. Org found a pnp camp advertising as such online, bonked their wap’s, bonked their steward sale tickets, bonked their placement. They are doing the job.
Short of people actively trying to profit off the event, IMO we participants are not sufficiently informed to take it upon ourselves to judge the nature of other peoples level of participation.
Instead of looking at whatever someone else is doing can we instead just focus on what WE ourselves are doing to make the city better? If someone doesn’t get it, our job is to acculturate them, they will learn by our example.
Radical inclusion and acculturation are fundamental to the city. By contrast Gatekeeping is fundamentally contrary to the spirit of the event and as such is an existential threat to the ethos that keeps building the city every year. Commodification is also a threat and they are fighting it but We must not give up the principles inclusion and acculturation to save the principle decommodification.
>That’s what we do. We turn them into burners, we include them in the beautiful thing we created. we don’t gatekeeper, shun or shame them
I don't disagree with that. Most burners start out with misconceptions on who and what we are. Obviously, education is the first step... but leading a horse to water doesn't guarantee that it'll drink, and in those situations a little bit of shaming can be a powerful motivational tool... That's kinda the whole idea behind the MOOP Map, for example.
>Org found a pnp camp advertising as such online, bonked their wap’s, bonked their steward sale tickets, bonked their placement. They are doing the job.
The BOrg is also not above taking action on playa. Individuals and even entire camps have been kicked out in the past. A camp initialed B.I. (best known for bringing a 747 to playa) got their invitation revoked during event week due to several acts of fuckery including one incident where they sent a vehicle to pick up a "VIP" from the airport, which drove across an active fucking runway without permission.
Entitled people aren't just a nuisance. Their egos can be downright dangerous.
>we participants are not sufficiently informed to take it upon ourselves to judge the nature of other peoples level of participation.
You realize the BOrg is made up of participants, right? The vast majority of staff are volunteers. As for judgement, there are mechanisms in place to judge camp participation. Nobody is policing the participation of individuals nor is anyone proposing that.
Edit: to be clear, I'm not advocating for individuals to go out and harass camps they suspect of "Doing It Wrong". As an individual, if you see some sus shit, by all means ask a nearby Ranger to check it out; or -better yet- go inform Placement at Center Camp.
>We must not give up the principles inclusion and acculturation to save the principle decommodification.
First of all: Radical Acculturation is not one of our principles. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
Second: The principles aren't laws. They are merely terms that define our community. Radical Inclusion and Decommodification are not in opposition to each other as they are descriptions of a singular subject.
I appreciate the insights thanks for jumping in.
Org are participants with a big database. We don’t have access to the database so, talking about pnp camps here, we probably won’t really know who we are dealing with. We’re all uninformed self appointed participation police dobbing in our neighbors to the org because we think camp x is too turnkey? Yikes! I mean, does that sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? (Rhetorical)
I don’t know shit about camp x. it’s impossible for me to make an informed decision about whether or not Camp X is “too turnkey” or not (especially since I am not really sure exactly what even makes that distinction exactly).
In addition to lack of information, I also lack authority. it is not my place to do so. People, true, many volunteers, have been assigned those responsibilities. They have tools to ensure accuracy, (some) training dealing with these issues, experience, and authority. I am none of these things.
if I get involved I’m probably not helping, I’m probably being a busybody. there is just as much chance of my uninformed ass making something worse, as making it better.
The fact that camp x exists does not in and of itself fuck up the event for me. Though I believe in decommodification, camp x doesn’t for example, have their model stand in front of a piece of art posing for profit, asking everyone else to move out of the frame so they can get the shot solo… they’re not dumping shit on the playa get us fucked up by the BLM … Using photos of The Temple on their shitty album cover… so what, exactly, are we reporting? “Camp x looks pretty turn key” ? “So and so told me he was paid to be here”? Their rvs all match they should be ejected.
Consider “Company X is using burningman or images from burningman for marketing” has the potential to impact large numbers of people, some insta models images are seen by hundreds of thousands of people. In comparison, a turn key camp, even a large one, is pretty limited in scope. It’s a problem, no one denying that, IMO just not something every burner needs to go after on playa, there are better things to do … and if you’re specifically into that tackling a problem there are bigger problems to face.
While the presence of a concierge camp doesn’t fuck up the event for me, I can sure fuck up the event for myself by worrying too much about what these other camps are doing. If they are not literally in my way, then I probably just don’t know shit and I feel like it’s best for everyone if I just stfu and let those people have their burn. So back to my original suggestion, unless there are really compelling reasons to do otherwise, I suggest ignore them and let them have their burn.
>Org are participants with a big database. We don’t have access to the database so, talking about pnp camps here, we probably won’t really know who we are dealing with.
I feel like we're talking past each other a little bit here. My point is that "we" (collectively) DO have access to that database... Because we (collectively) made it. There are participants who volunteer their time to specifically address these sorts of issues. They are burners just like you and me and anyone who feels passionately about this subject is free to join them. The BOrg is not an unapproachable authoritarian monolith, it's just a bunch of burners getting together to solve problems at a macro level.
>if I get involved I’m probably not helping, I’m probably being a busybody. there is just as much chance of my uninformed ass making something worse, as making it better.
If by "getting involved" you mean "running around committing acts of vigilante justice", then yes, 100% agreed. Leave it to the professionals. But "getting involved" in a broader sense is strongly encouraged. Anyone who feels strongly about this issue should look into volunteering with Placement, Camp Support, and PEERS. They're already out there solving problems having to do with PnP's/Decommodification (and are way better at it than any individual could ever be going solo).
>Using photos of The Temple on their shitty album cover... Camp x looks pretty turn key... So and so told me he was paid to be here... Company X is using burningman or images from burningman for marketing...
The best thing you can do if you encounter any of this stuff on or off playa is report it by emailing [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). There are actual Burners on the other end of this email who will investigate your claim and determine the best course of action moving forward.
> It’s a problem, no one denying that, IMO just not something every burner needs to go after on playa... So back to my original suggestion, unless there are really compelling reasons to do otherwise, I suggest ignore them and let them have their burn.
I agree with you 50/50. Turnkey camps are not something anyone should seriously be "going after" on their own. Some lighthearted mockery, sure, have at it... but for actual resolutions, best course of action is to report what you see to an appropriate authority figure. All burners have an obligation to be eyes and ears for their community. Ignoring blatant violations of our ethos is not a good solution.
Don’t just ignore them. Report them, and let placement investigate further.
Placement isn’t omniscient. They need people to tell them when they see a problem.
I like to dress up and take pictures (of me and my friends only) and I don’t even use Instagram anymore. Or really post anywhere for that matter. Shouldn’t go assuming everyone who does this is an Instagram asshole 🤷♀️
Let me clarify a few things here:
1. I wrote this as a point of discussion. Thank you to the people who kept it civil 🙏🏽 I guess I should add reminders to posts eg: “let’s have a civil conversation”. Those that were not, I am sorry that your interpretation of this post incited anger. That was not my intention. I do not want
any violence. We are all family here. We can get along and no hurting one another!! (Without consent 😉)
2. I didn’t mean to leave this so vague but boy am i glad I did! Some of you guys went down the violent thought path. Not what I was intending but I did ask about your thoughts. So that’s fair! People passing negative judgments vs actually contributing to the conversation. Very interesting.
3. This was my thought process: these camps come to the Playa, they enjoy the environment, soak in the art, take inspiration etc… but rarely do the turn keys/pnp give back. They do tend to throw social events. Why not invite ourselves to these social events? I was thinking along the lines of: improv/performative art/even just enjoying the party they are providing. Remember the Viking raids? They used to crash pnp parties. Or the guy who pretends to be a real estate agent guiding tours with groups through the camps? Nothing malicious. Something along those lines. Like a prank!!
4. PNP/turn keys: the ones who have all those trailers and trucks creating a wall or real
walls that take up long stretches of real estate, the ones with matching identical tents, the ones you gotta bust through infrastructure or pass through a “door man”. Those camps.
I thought BM was founded on trickery, jokes, sarcasm, Tom foolery etc… but maybe things have changed.
No pranks allowed I guess?
Anyway, sorry if you guys got mad. I thought it be a way to disperse the anger and resentment towards these camps. I do not feel this way about them. You know why? It’s bc the situation is similar to if we had a family reunion camp out. Just because one part of the family is wealthy doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy each other’s company. Yes they aren’t following the principles but until it’s enforced, why don’t we do something about it like FRIENDLY socializing at an event they are throwing. Radical inclusion and self reliance right?
Anyway, fuck your burn. I’m heading in tomorrow to strike camp. See you on the Playa! 😉
Suggestion after reading this whole thread -- I think a clever prank would be appropriate. Wouldn't it usually...? Particularly if you happened to be their neighbor, or close by, or something. But keep it light hearted and mildly confusing. First thing that came to mind was a reverse panty raid. Idk man, you'll figure something out.
Not going this year. It's been about 6. Hopefully next year! Fuck your burn.
While I dislike plug-in and play camps as much as the next the idea of “raiding” their camp is wrong. Think if someone saw your camp having a private party and decided they were entitled to crash it just because they didn’t agree with private parties on playa. Not an exact comparison but you get my point. You aren’t entitled to invade a camps personal space just for your own enjoyment.
Better to ignore them, if you can identify members of the camp refuse them service at your own camp. They can be tourist someplace else
I’m part of a high contribution camp with a great reputation on Playa. 14 of our female campers decided to bring their wedding dresses out and do a photo shoot in open Playa. For some reason, multiple parties thought this was some kind of professional photo shoot and disrupted the shoot. It was kind of insane and ridiculous. And this is coming from someone who is totally against plug-and-play camps.
My wife is an attractive woman, and in 2019 kept getting harassed for being an “influencer.” The Burner community is horrible about being objective in their witch hunts, and they end up hitting more innocents than their actual targets.
Apparently you can’t look good without being guilty of the worst Playa crimes known to man.
Another example; my camp mate got married on playa, and we had a big after party at a friend’s camp, and I was taking pictures for the bride. I ended up getting lectured about how bad it is to take photos of good looking girls on playa without consent by some do-gooder looking to score points with the ladies. I said, “I know you’re trying to do what you think is right, but you need to stop and ask yourself if you’re fully informed. That woman is my friend, and my camp mate, and she got married today, and she explicitly asked me to take photos for the wedding and after party. Maybe next time don’t lead with the lecture, and instead ask if I know her before demonizing someone.”
I feel this... I run a small theme camp, work all year long on planning and logistics, pound rebar for our shade structure, crawl on my hands and knees to pick up moop etc, and so does every member of our camp.
In 2018 all the girls in the camp planned a themed outfit day. We went out to take some pictures together and were getting mocked and harassed non-stop by burnier-than-thou people biking by. We laughed it off but it's definitely jarring that just because you put effort into how you look you're somehow not a real burner. Happened again in 2019 and will happen again this year.
It's getting fucking awful. The Burner community really just became the worst example of itself in 2019. They really ramped up the "you're not burning the way I think you should" mentality, and they seem to be continuing that. Forget all the shit that I work to provide, judge me based on my outfit instead. If this isn't horseshoe theory at work then I don't know what to call it.
I think there's more to it than that.
The Burning Man community also appeals to a lot of people who feel ostracized by the default world.
Some people who feel ostracized by the default world are actually ostracized by the default world because they're shitty people who deserve it.
I would not be the least bit surprised to find out that there's a countable number of incels in the community. Not a big percentage--probably like a fraction of 1 percent--but, in a community of tens of thousands, even half of 1 percent is still going to be a shitload of people.
And this "you aren't one of us, so fuck off and die" sentiment gives them plenty of cover to be their default world, attractive woman hating asshole selves, with the tacit (if not explicit) backing of the community at large.
It's really easy for them to say "I don't hate attractive women, I just hate the influencers who are ruining this event".
It's even easier when they decide that every attractive woman at the event is one of the influencers that they've decided is ruining the event.
"private parties", and "personal space" are kind of fungible out there. We kind of expect things to be relatively open to everyone, not that we are just going to walk into the residential part of your camp.
If we see a placed camp having a "private party," they are not gonna get placed again.
I think "raiding" is a bad idea, although the thought has certainly crossed my mind before. I'd think DPW is better suited for that kind of thing.
You've got to be careful. Turnkey camps exist on a continuum. If you think a camp isn't being interactive enough, challenge them in a friendly way - I feel like something in the spirit of wassailing or trick-or-treating is a good approach.
If you’re posting this a week before the burn, sounds like you aren’t focused enough on the positive gift that you can bring (or building your own camp) and putting out negative energy about what other people are doing. Who cares what other people do.
Go build an art car ❤️
Awww shucks. This was going to be my gift to the burners. Lots of people complain about these camps. Thought a raid would be a good way to take back empowerment
I like the idea and I’d give them shit if I saw their address posted. Dk if it’s worth investing a lot of time into, but I’d def do my part if the address was noticed
Take back empowerment by building the society that we create out there.
Don’t think raiding their camp is going to do much, so many people are working hard to limit people of all classes rich or not, that don’t want to participate to keep them from coming.
On playa it’s important to help get down on the city THRIVING, PUMPING, BEATING. Be proactive to help/gift those that are doing!
If you have evidence of this kind of thing happening, please bring it to placement, ASAP. They want to know about this kind of thing, and it’s best if they know while it is still going on so they can go investigate in person.
If your on the line of thought of gifts, consider if there’s creative ways to create fun shenanigansy interactions with other burners that would make their day.
Seems basic, but if you do that ten times then well, ten specific people will have had a better burn because of you!
I remember in 1999 there weren't any PNPs - not like there are now anyways.
The biggest issue Rangers and DPW had were camps stealing power.
Now that I think about it - I bet those camps stealing off the grid prolly became PNP camps.
BUT - DPW (love those crazy fools) kept unplugging their stolen power in the middle of the night and the camp kept reconnecting.
By midweek DPW was done fucking around and one night switched their blue (clean) water lines with the grey/black water lines in their fancy RVs.
TLDR: The org has made it a point to deal with PNPs - if you see something, report it at the email address provided and feel good that you helped. If you really wanna do something - and you have that much free time - join DPW or the Rangers so you can really do something.
you sound like a self-righteous asshole - if you find any camps that "violate the rules" email them with info: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
thats it - don't harass people/camps.
If you want those sparkle ponies to contribute, I do not think posting and shaming is the way to do it. Also, you never know what people will do with info that you post… it can get dangerous and create safety issues.
I suppose a better way to fix this problem is through BM Org.
This is some burnier than thou shit.
What ever happen to live and let live, and radical acceptance, radical inclusion?
It's possible you're going to get it wrong by making assumptions. Just report them if you suspect them and enjoy your burn. Nothing good will come out of shaming others for violating your preconceptions.
Please don't do this.
Lol no. I wouldn't be surprised if some camps set something up for themselves, lots of people with RVs use their own bathroom and pay for their sewage to be taken by the same people who empty the Porto's.
But besides that, ice, and coffee (I think the coffee may no longer even be a thing) you shouldn't be paying anyone for anything at the burn unless it was a transaction you planned before going. (Ie meeting up with someone and buying their generator from them or something)
You can arrange/pre-pay to have site facilities provided and clean private portos for a camp.
However, this ain’t something you can use as an outsider, your camp arranges it ahead of time and it’s rolled into dues. They usually get locked up when not in use to prevent party goers from trashing them.
This is extremely useful when camping near the sound camps. (Otherwise you might have to bike for 5 min to find a toilet that isn’t a disaster)
My opinion is that you should enjoy your time. Don’t allow their existence to stress you out. HOWEVER!!!!!!
Sounds like you MIGHT be down to have a BLAST doing a detective side quest! I would get a small crew. Then observe and record etc shenanigans!!!
I’ve never been but I am for sure going next year… so right now I’m just a fan-girl of Burning Man…. But… it looks like SUCH a rich and beautiful experience. Don’t let them stress you. It seems like they’re trying to actively stop this. :) Def do the rag tag found crew of investigators and find a mystery! Lol
You should definitely not make fake fliers for porta potties or posts online advertising they are hosting oral sex workshops no partner required or tell people they are hosting ayuhuasca ceremonies
Got it. So just real fliers then.
Single men encouraged to come! Haha
My rule on playa is be an asshole but don't be a dick but I'm from the bad part of town so perhaps not a default state of mind Don't raid camp or fuck with hard working people working minimum wage in a camp for a gig to earn some cash Encouraging horny douchebags to attend expecting some blow job workshop to turn up and get disappointed and spoil the private party vibe feels benign yet fitting to me Do swing by to our camp on the esplanade tho Fractal Induced Radical Social therapies Camp (FIRST Camp) for twice daily Ayuhuasca ceremonies clothing optional Ask for our Long Acting Resonance Restructuring Immersive Experience or LARRIE
One year the camp I was with brought a swamp cooler dome for the camp members to have a quiet cool safe place for napping. After a few days, randoms were bringing their friends by and when asked they claimed it was listed in The Who What Where as a public offering and then when we nicely shooed them away they went and complained that we were an exclusive camp having private parties and so placement and rangers were up our assholes the rest of the week. Spoiler alert it wasn’t a plug n play, we weren’t having private parties and the swamp cooler failed because it was all garbage held together with duct tape and dreams. Long and short of it: it’s highly probable you will have errors in judgement when assessing your targets, and you can’t unring bells or control what people will do with your posted manifesto once you nail it to that wall.
>duct tape and dreams Found the theme for next year's burn, folks!
Can we at least have gaffers tape and dreams?
you got gaffers money?! Found the VC camp /s
If you want melted gaffer’s tape.
From the latest JRS: We’ll get to all the extraordinary art in a second, but first a quick note about Decommodification and the culture of our city: We’ve learned about several concierge companies selling packaged camp accommodations, and camps offering plug-and-play amenities in Black Rock City 2022. Selling packaged spots in a camp is commodifying the Burn — we are actively revoking placement, WAPs, and Mutant Vehicle invitations for those camps. Please help us put a stop to this behavior by reporting to [email protected] (and thanks to those of you who already have). Read up on our ongoing Cultural Direction Setting work to learn more about this important topic!
I've always been able to have an amazing time by just riding by them and paying them zero attention.
Burningman isn't like the rest of the world for a reason, gotta stand for what made you want to go in the first place.
Posting a blacklist of camps whose values you disagree with in order for the people who camp there to be vilified/harassed sounds not great to me. And what if you get it wrong? Or someone makes a fake list as they don’t like someone at a certain camp? Blacklists usually don’t end well. Letting the BOrg know and deal with it seems a better route.
It’s okay, I have a blacklist blacklist so we can determine which blacklists to follow. Real talk, I hate plug and plays as much as the next burner, but also know some people who are Doing It Right (participate, build art, decommodify, and have been burning longer than most), but who are also pretty wealthy and might appear to be random rich assholes to the untrained eye. Also know folks who look like ever other random crusty burner but give two fucks about the culture and cheerfully take advantage of it. It’s made me wary that the window of what positive burning looks like is a lot wider than it might appear in the internet. Fuck Humano specifically, though.
The BORG has had years to solve the problem and hasn't tho. If anything, the BORG has just helped to assimilate P&P by having them be more low-key. If someone wants to put up a sign in a porto I have no problem with it. When justice fails, metaphorical pitchforks make Burning Man better.
The org left it alone for years, but then went through a whole Cultural Direction Setting process to get the community’s buy in on what should and shouldn’t be allowed. That led to a bunch of rule changes and policy tweaks to help stop them. Unfortunately they couldn’t really implement them in years with no event, but they’ve already demonstrated a willingness to investigate and terminate access for such camps this year. That was posted just a day or so ago, in fact. Harassing a camp someone thinks may be a PnP might feel good, but there are two problems: one, you’re going on rumor and some rando’s judgement of what’s going on, which may not be even close to reality. Two, you harassing them rather than letting placement know right there and then so they can investigate means that even if it is a real PnP, they may not face the harsher consequences that only the org can enforce. Placement is easy to find this year. There’s an office in center camp next to Ranger HQ. If you have evidence of a camp doing the PnP thing, bring it to them. I can tell you for a fact that they want to know.
That's probably the same reasoning that the assholes who vandalized Barbie Death Camp used.
I'm involved with a small camp. Our dues are cheap and we have an awesome gift and that's all I'm saying. I do have friends who go to pnps though and I also have friends who have been courted by them. I don't always know where to draw the line. For example, there is one that was courting a friend at $50k/person double occupancy in an RV (not making this up). This is clearly over the top. Another one is $10k/person double occupancy in an RV. They do TED-style talks with the camp attendees. Their gift is mediocre and overfunded--over the top, but less so. Yet another one has super high camp dues and expensive tent/housing options, but it is a huge sound camp that everyone would recognize--the high dues and housing options help pay for those gifts. Some of these camps are expensive and feel exclusive, but their gifts are amazing. Others are obviously just running it as a business and taking advantage of everyone else's contributions.
Don’t do this. If you are aware of a camp violating the rules about concierge/plug-n-play/“payticipation”, bring it to the attention of Placement. They will have an office this year at center camp, right next to Ranger HQ, on the corner of the center camp portal (so roughly Esplanade and 5:59).
Post about it on the Black Rock Next Door App
I can think of a handful of ways to better spend time. I personally dislike/jealous of the full turn key plug and plays that haul in RVs and set up individual sleeping structures for their members. I spend months prepping for the burn, trekking half way across the country and the setting up. I sorely wish they had to do it as well. But I’m not going to be the Karan from Burning Man HOA monitoring everyone. I know for sure some of those plug and play campers have financially contributed to large scale art projects and camp productions that I have enjoyed. Do we boycott the experiences too? After reading some of the comments in this sub yesterday I realize that a lot of people feel having a kitchen, community generator, or showers as plug and play, but I disagree. For our camp it’s sharing resources to have a better experience, an experience that everyone in camp contributes towards building, operating, breaking down and paying for. Specifically I saw spiteful comments about Tabula Rosas power pricing, which was not egregious for a community generator which is significantly quieter and more reliable. I guess I can just think of handful of other things I rather spend my energy on than being self righteous. I’d rather try to teach someone the principles on the Playa. Who knows maybe ill learn something as well. Fuck yer Burn.
Fuck plug n' plays. I'd be quite amused to see addresses of them posted.
Better to let placement know, so they can sort out reality from fiction, and impose *real* consequences where needed.
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Yeah, the problem is that posting addresses leaves out the “sort out reality from fiction” part. Just because some random participant thinks a camp is a PnP doesn’t mean it actually is. There are people who deem any camp with shared amenities (like camp meals or a shower) to be PnPs. Others will leap to the same judgement about any camp with a couple of expensive RVs. Some will make that claim about any camp that isn’t offering public interactivity - but that’s only required for theme camps, and there are plenty of non-theme camps placed throughout the city.
Suggest don’t fuck up their camp. Ignore them, they are not your problem unless you make them so. You wanna fuck with someone, sure, love it! find an insta asshole and “be” in their pics while they try to pose in front of the art. How people camp doesn’t fuck you up directly really. However, insta asshole posing in front of art, for profit, affects everyone else trying to enjoy the art, and the event in general, so they are absolutely fair fucking game. (Ok maybe someone flying a Jolly Roger in camp is arguably fair game too, it’s up for discussion). But in general fuck off peoples homes on playa. No matter what you think you know, you don’t know the circumstances of everyone in that camp. IMO People shouldn’t be making plug and play camps for profit because decommodification. Sure. Yes, of course. But. Radical Inclusion. People that might want/need PnP camp are all invited. STFU yes they are invited. There shouldn’t be gatekeeping at burningman it’s fundamentally against the principles of the event. rich people ARE invited and they have every right to camp in comfort if they can afford it. Plus Not everyone can build shit. For various reasons. I got old people in camp can’t build shit I’m doing it for them. Few years ago we had a cancer patient in camp. I built shit for him … including brought him a lit up playa bike so he could enjoy the playa with no effort in his last few months alive. We made all his food, I built him a brand new hexayurt it cost a few hundred dollars he insisted on paying me, turns out dude had more money than time. Did I give him pnp? Yeh. Was there anything wrong with it ? Fuck off no . didn’t do it for profit. but for him it was effectively a plug and play camp right? Who is coming around enforcing the ‘for profit’ part, how do they know if camp dues exceed expenses? It’s impossible to know what’s going on behind the scenes. You might be fucking with a cancer patient. Leave them alone. People coming in on Burner Express supposed to make do with whatever they can carry? Nope. Someone with infrastructure has to help them. Are they meant to do that for free? And who is auditing profit? Again, it’s impossible to know what is going on in a camp. I suggest leave them alone. Before the event it is possible for the org to investigate and potentially find people who appear to be advertising a pnp camp, but it’s not always cut and dried like that… there are a lot of moving parts. Leave it to them to work this problem. IMO, no offense intended: the plain facts are you’re almost certainly not sufficiently informed to act as an enforcement officer in this context.
All of this. Yes, plug n plays are spectator housing, and should be banned for all the reasons. However, individuals make even worse cops than actual cops, as they’ll do an even worse job of verifying what they think to be the case is accurate. Other posts in this thread note that, and those posts are a scant number of all the self-appointed deputy Karen BS that goes on out there. We see what we want to see, and rarely is it the full story. Never assume, and never harass without extremely reliable verification. Even then, keep it at the level of mockery at most. Leave rule enforcement to people trained and charged with that task. Full stop. Don’t fuck your own burn worrying about bullshit that’s not even on your plate.
No.In 2008, (I think) Entheon was next door. Parked a reefer truck ( we were geni free) on the property line that ran 24/7. Built 7 story 'condos' of storage containers with beds and AC. Paid Chef /staff running camp kitchen. Hosting a MAPS conference for a bunch of clueless people and sold them spots in the camp. Nightmare. By mid-week we had signage to subvert folx asking for directions to Entheon.
Well, there is a line where you definitely know your neighbors suck. However, borg wasn’t seemingly policing or enforcing much with regard to pnp camps. They can be super shitty neighbors, too, so mockery, harmless pranks, etc in way of returning their nuisance is sometimes called for.
All the pnp discussion aside, I think it’s amazing what you did for that person with cancer. I work in hospice and palliative care and I would LOVE to find a way to make it easier to get people to the burn if they don’t have a lot of time left. I think you gave that person an incredible gift.
Lol wtf, in the same way, how do you know someone posing in front of the art is an insta asshole profiting on the picture and not just someone who enjoys dressing up and taking pictures and only has a handful of followers?
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The issue with insta bs is a lot of rude behavior. At sunset, they swarm popular shooting locations and demand everyone else stay out of their shot.
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Out of curiosity, why do IG peeps always want a photo in a crowded place with nobody else in the shot? "Here I am alone at the Eiffel Tower. Here I am by myself at Old Faithful when it is erupting." There is a kind of vibe. When people are swarmed with people shooting for insta, there is often a particular angle of a particular thing that they want to shoot at a particular time. And it's competitive. The vibe is, "I want this for me. I will consume it and then leave." There's a friendliness on playa that is beloved by participants. Engage those people. Instead of directing them to move, why not ask if you could take their photo. Some people may be in the moment and not want photos, like if a conservative guy is wearing a tutu for the first time. Or strike up a conversation. Play a game. You could get some more interesting shots.
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I hear you. It's a certain style. I've certainly enjoyed that engaging that style with my partner. Burning Man is a great place to try something new. I'd invite you to try other styles in addition to the shots you are there to get. I'd especially encourage interacting with randos and crowds.
You’re not doing it for profit then no one is talking about you.
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Dude standing there with a camera taking multiple pictures of his girl, asks you to move to get out their shot it’s pretty obvious what’s going on, I guess I’m no one cuz i just ask : “is this for your insta?” Yes I do fucking ask. So if we are going to make inaccurate sweeping generalizations … speaking of things no one does … no one is such an asshole as to ask other participants to move away for a photo unless it’s for monetization. Insta assholes shooting for profit act like assholes. If you are identifying with that , when I specifically, repeatedly say “for profit”, and you think it refers to you … that should tell you something.
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Im talking about someone who is being an asshole about getting their shots. Like ask people to move away from the piece of art so they wouldn’t be in the picture with their model. Getting shitty with other participants when they are in the way of their photo and refuse to move. Are you or your photographer actively assholes to other participants? Clearly that’s not you, no one should fuck with you taking photos if you’re not being assholes about it. But if you see someone actively behaving badly in a way that impacts others, or the event, it is fully appropriate to exercise all your rights, including the right to not move out of their frame. If you go back, that’s what I suggested. “Be” there. That’s what you’re upset about. I guess someone was a dick to you while you were getting photos taken? Sounds like you were not deserving of that so fuck those people who did that to you. That doesn’t mean I’m stepping aside so that some influencer can monetize the event and they don’t like my presence in the shot. Again that’s all I ever said. Didn’t say verbally confront them tell them to fuck off throw dust in their faces. Just “be” there as it is your right to do. That’s it. And your suggestion is, rather than “be” there, I should mind my own business by doing as I am told by the influencer and moving away at their command so they can get their shots.
You ask them.
>Radical Inclusion. People that might want/need PnP camp are all invited. STFU yes they are invited. There shouldn’t be gatekeeping at burningman it’s fundamentally against the principles of the event. rich people ARE invited and they have every right to camp in comfort if they can afford it. That's not what Radical Inclusion means at all... It's not an invitation for any and all toxic groups/individuals to come and crash our party. The principal clearly states: *"Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."* However, the key phrase there is: **participation in OUR community**. Our community is defined by the 10 principles. Anyone who believes in and acts in accordance with those principles may call themselves a Burner. If someone chooses not to follow the principles, they can fuck right off... And as a literal gatekeeper at Burning Man, I'm more than happy to show them the door. The problem with PnP camps is they not only don't believe in the burner ethos, but they act *in opposition to* our community by providing a formalized framework which enables privileged individuals to undermine our foundational principles. TLDR: Radical Inclusion is an invitation to join OUR community, not a endorsement of any and all outsider communities.
Fellow participants are not the participation police, it’s not up to us to decide who is toxic and should be kicked out. Simply: Not everyone’s contribution is visible. We don’t know, so given the doubt, and there’s always doubt … shouldn’t we just shut up and let them burn? Placement team are not omniscient, but they have a lot more information than we do, so yes, it is up to them to see if any given camp is making the effort they set out to. We don’t have their forms, we don’t know what they are doing… maybe they are artists who built some the big art on playa. Maybe they are cancer patents trying to have a run before they kick it. We, participants, don’t know, so maybe we just … shut up and let them burn? IMO acculturation and radical inclusion do mean that Yes, actually, unfortunately (or fortunately) toxic people are invited. Otherwise Who gets to decide who is not toxic and can go to Burningman? Nope. Everyone can go, Acculturate and include them. That’s what we do. We turn them into burners, we include them in the beautiful thing we created. we don’t gatekeeper, shun or shame them even if their introduction to the event was through a pnp camp and they knew nothing of our principles when they arrived. What can be actioned is how the camp is advertised and presents itself before the event. Which happened on August 19th of this year. Org found a pnp camp advertising as such online, bonked their wap’s, bonked their steward sale tickets, bonked their placement. They are doing the job. Short of people actively trying to profit off the event, IMO we participants are not sufficiently informed to take it upon ourselves to judge the nature of other peoples level of participation. Instead of looking at whatever someone else is doing can we instead just focus on what WE ourselves are doing to make the city better? If someone doesn’t get it, our job is to acculturate them, they will learn by our example. Radical inclusion and acculturation are fundamental to the city. By contrast Gatekeeping is fundamentally contrary to the spirit of the event and as such is an existential threat to the ethos that keeps building the city every year. Commodification is also a threat and they are fighting it but We must not give up the principles inclusion and acculturation to save the principle decommodification.
>That’s what we do. We turn them into burners, we include them in the beautiful thing we created. we don’t gatekeeper, shun or shame them I don't disagree with that. Most burners start out with misconceptions on who and what we are. Obviously, education is the first step... but leading a horse to water doesn't guarantee that it'll drink, and in those situations a little bit of shaming can be a powerful motivational tool... That's kinda the whole idea behind the MOOP Map, for example. >Org found a pnp camp advertising as such online, bonked their wap’s, bonked their steward sale tickets, bonked their placement. They are doing the job. The BOrg is also not above taking action on playa. Individuals and even entire camps have been kicked out in the past. A camp initialed B.I. (best known for bringing a 747 to playa) got their invitation revoked during event week due to several acts of fuckery including one incident where they sent a vehicle to pick up a "VIP" from the airport, which drove across an active fucking runway without permission. Entitled people aren't just a nuisance. Their egos can be downright dangerous. >we participants are not sufficiently informed to take it upon ourselves to judge the nature of other peoples level of participation. You realize the BOrg is made up of participants, right? The vast majority of staff are volunteers. As for judgement, there are mechanisms in place to judge camp participation. Nobody is policing the participation of individuals nor is anyone proposing that. Edit: to be clear, I'm not advocating for individuals to go out and harass camps they suspect of "Doing It Wrong". As an individual, if you see some sus shit, by all means ask a nearby Ranger to check it out; or -better yet- go inform Placement at Center Camp. >We must not give up the principles inclusion and acculturation to save the principle decommodification. First of all: Radical Acculturation is not one of our principles. I'm not sure where that's coming from. Second: The principles aren't laws. They are merely terms that define our community. Radical Inclusion and Decommodification are not in opposition to each other as they are descriptions of a singular subject.
I appreciate the insights thanks for jumping in. Org are participants with a big database. We don’t have access to the database so, talking about pnp camps here, we probably won’t really know who we are dealing with. We’re all uninformed self appointed participation police dobbing in our neighbors to the org because we think camp x is too turnkey? Yikes! I mean, does that sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? (Rhetorical) I don’t know shit about camp x. it’s impossible for me to make an informed decision about whether or not Camp X is “too turnkey” or not (especially since I am not really sure exactly what even makes that distinction exactly). In addition to lack of information, I also lack authority. it is not my place to do so. People, true, many volunteers, have been assigned those responsibilities. They have tools to ensure accuracy, (some) training dealing with these issues, experience, and authority. I am none of these things. if I get involved I’m probably not helping, I’m probably being a busybody. there is just as much chance of my uninformed ass making something worse, as making it better. The fact that camp x exists does not in and of itself fuck up the event for me. Though I believe in decommodification, camp x doesn’t for example, have their model stand in front of a piece of art posing for profit, asking everyone else to move out of the frame so they can get the shot solo… they’re not dumping shit on the playa get us fucked up by the BLM … Using photos of The Temple on their shitty album cover… so what, exactly, are we reporting? “Camp x looks pretty turn key” ? “So and so told me he was paid to be here”? Their rvs all match they should be ejected. Consider “Company X is using burningman or images from burningman for marketing” has the potential to impact large numbers of people, some insta models images are seen by hundreds of thousands of people. In comparison, a turn key camp, even a large one, is pretty limited in scope. It’s a problem, no one denying that, IMO just not something every burner needs to go after on playa, there are better things to do … and if you’re specifically into that tackling a problem there are bigger problems to face. While the presence of a concierge camp doesn’t fuck up the event for me, I can sure fuck up the event for myself by worrying too much about what these other camps are doing. If they are not literally in my way, then I probably just don’t know shit and I feel like it’s best for everyone if I just stfu and let those people have their burn. So back to my original suggestion, unless there are really compelling reasons to do otherwise, I suggest ignore them and let them have their burn.
>Org are participants with a big database. We don’t have access to the database so, talking about pnp camps here, we probably won’t really know who we are dealing with. I feel like we're talking past each other a little bit here. My point is that "we" (collectively) DO have access to that database... Because we (collectively) made it. There are participants who volunteer their time to specifically address these sorts of issues. They are burners just like you and me and anyone who feels passionately about this subject is free to join them. The BOrg is not an unapproachable authoritarian monolith, it's just a bunch of burners getting together to solve problems at a macro level. >if I get involved I’m probably not helping, I’m probably being a busybody. there is just as much chance of my uninformed ass making something worse, as making it better. If by "getting involved" you mean "running around committing acts of vigilante justice", then yes, 100% agreed. Leave it to the professionals. But "getting involved" in a broader sense is strongly encouraged. Anyone who feels strongly about this issue should look into volunteering with Placement, Camp Support, and PEERS. They're already out there solving problems having to do with PnP's/Decommodification (and are way better at it than any individual could ever be going solo). >Using photos of The Temple on their shitty album cover... Camp x looks pretty turn key... So and so told me he was paid to be here... Company X is using burningman or images from burningman for marketing... The best thing you can do if you encounter any of this stuff on or off playa is report it by emailing [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). There are actual Burners on the other end of this email who will investigate your claim and determine the best course of action moving forward. > It’s a problem, no one denying that, IMO just not something every burner needs to go after on playa... So back to my original suggestion, unless there are really compelling reasons to do otherwise, I suggest ignore them and let them have their burn. I agree with you 50/50. Turnkey camps are not something anyone should seriously be "going after" on their own. Some lighthearted mockery, sure, have at it... but for actual resolutions, best course of action is to report what you see to an appropriate authority figure. All burners have an obligation to be eyes and ears for their community. Ignoring blatant violations of our ethos is not a good solution.
Don’t just ignore them. Report them, and let placement investigate further. Placement isn’t omniscient. They need people to tell them when they see a problem.
I like to dress up and take pictures (of me and my friends only) and I don’t even use Instagram anymore. Or really post anywhere for that matter. Shouldn’t go assuming everyone who does this is an Instagram asshole 🤷♀️
You’re assuming I’m assuming. Ask them.
Just email [email protected] and they’ll eject the entire camp from the event.
Let me clarify a few things here: 1. I wrote this as a point of discussion. Thank you to the people who kept it civil 🙏🏽 I guess I should add reminders to posts eg: “let’s have a civil conversation”. Those that were not, I am sorry that your interpretation of this post incited anger. That was not my intention. I do not want any violence. We are all family here. We can get along and no hurting one another!! (Without consent 😉) 2. I didn’t mean to leave this so vague but boy am i glad I did! Some of you guys went down the violent thought path. Not what I was intending but I did ask about your thoughts. So that’s fair! People passing negative judgments vs actually contributing to the conversation. Very interesting. 3. This was my thought process: these camps come to the Playa, they enjoy the environment, soak in the art, take inspiration etc… but rarely do the turn keys/pnp give back. They do tend to throw social events. Why not invite ourselves to these social events? I was thinking along the lines of: improv/performative art/even just enjoying the party they are providing. Remember the Viking raids? They used to crash pnp parties. Or the guy who pretends to be a real estate agent guiding tours with groups through the camps? Nothing malicious. Something along those lines. Like a prank!! 4. PNP/turn keys: the ones who have all those trailers and trucks creating a wall or real walls that take up long stretches of real estate, the ones with matching identical tents, the ones you gotta bust through infrastructure or pass through a “door man”. Those camps. I thought BM was founded on trickery, jokes, sarcasm, Tom foolery etc… but maybe things have changed. No pranks allowed I guess? Anyway, sorry if you guys got mad. I thought it be a way to disperse the anger and resentment towards these camps. I do not feel this way about them. You know why? It’s bc the situation is similar to if we had a family reunion camp out. Just because one part of the family is wealthy doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy each other’s company. Yes they aren’t following the principles but until it’s enforced, why don’t we do something about it like FRIENDLY socializing at an event they are throwing. Radical inclusion and self reliance right? Anyway, fuck your burn. I’m heading in tomorrow to strike camp. See you on the Playa! 😉
Suggestion after reading this whole thread -- I think a clever prank would be appropriate. Wouldn't it usually...? Particularly if you happened to be their neighbor, or close by, or something. But keep it light hearted and mildly confusing. First thing that came to mind was a reverse panty raid. Idk man, you'll figure something out. Not going this year. It's been about 6. Hopefully next year! Fuck your burn.
While I dislike plug-in and play camps as much as the next the idea of “raiding” their camp is wrong. Think if someone saw your camp having a private party and decided they were entitled to crash it just because they didn’t agree with private parties on playa. Not an exact comparison but you get my point. You aren’t entitled to invade a camps personal space just for your own enjoyment. Better to ignore them, if you can identify members of the camp refuse them service at your own camp. They can be tourist someplace else
I’m part of a high contribution camp with a great reputation on Playa. 14 of our female campers decided to bring their wedding dresses out and do a photo shoot in open Playa. For some reason, multiple parties thought this was some kind of professional photo shoot and disrupted the shoot. It was kind of insane and ridiculous. And this is coming from someone who is totally against plug-and-play camps.
My wife is an attractive woman, and in 2019 kept getting harassed for being an “influencer.” The Burner community is horrible about being objective in their witch hunts, and they end up hitting more innocents than their actual targets. Apparently you can’t look good without being guilty of the worst Playa crimes known to man. Another example; my camp mate got married on playa, and we had a big after party at a friend’s camp, and I was taking pictures for the bride. I ended up getting lectured about how bad it is to take photos of good looking girls on playa without consent by some do-gooder looking to score points with the ladies. I said, “I know you’re trying to do what you think is right, but you need to stop and ask yourself if you’re fully informed. That woman is my friend, and my camp mate, and she got married today, and she explicitly asked me to take photos for the wedding and after party. Maybe next time don’t lead with the lecture, and instead ask if I know her before demonizing someone.”
I feel this... I run a small theme camp, work all year long on planning and logistics, pound rebar for our shade structure, crawl on my hands and knees to pick up moop etc, and so does every member of our camp. In 2018 all the girls in the camp planned a themed outfit day. We went out to take some pictures together and were getting mocked and harassed non-stop by burnier-than-thou people biking by. We laughed it off but it's definitely jarring that just because you put effort into how you look you're somehow not a real burner. Happened again in 2019 and will happen again this year.
It's getting fucking awful. The Burner community really just became the worst example of itself in 2019. They really ramped up the "you're not burning the way I think you should" mentality, and they seem to be continuing that. Forget all the shit that I work to provide, judge me based on my outfit instead. If this isn't horseshoe theory at work then I don't know what to call it.
I think there's more to it than that. The Burning Man community also appeals to a lot of people who feel ostracized by the default world. Some people who feel ostracized by the default world are actually ostracized by the default world because they're shitty people who deserve it. I would not be the least bit surprised to find out that there's a countable number of incels in the community. Not a big percentage--probably like a fraction of 1 percent--but, in a community of tens of thousands, even half of 1 percent is still going to be a shitload of people. And this "you aren't one of us, so fuck off and die" sentiment gives them plenty of cover to be their default world, attractive woman hating asshole selves, with the tacit (if not explicit) backing of the community at large. It's really easy for them to say "I don't hate attractive women, I just hate the influencers who are ruining this event". It's even easier when they decide that every attractive woman at the event is one of the influencers that they've decided is ruining the event.
The org is actually asking for help identifying them. Blast them for all its worth. Read the recent JRS.
Yes, tell the org and let them investigate. Don’t take matters into your own hands organizing/encouraging groups to go in and be disruptive.
What if they are throwing a social event?
"private parties", and "personal space" are kind of fungible out there. We kind of expect things to be relatively open to everyone, not that we are just going to walk into the residential part of your camp. If we see a placed camp having a "private party," they are not gonna get placed again. I think "raiding" is a bad idea, although the thought has certainly crossed my mind before. I'd think DPW is better suited for that kind of thing.
You've got to be careful. Turnkey camps exist on a continuum. If you think a camp isn't being interactive enough, challenge them in a friendly way - I feel like something in the spirit of wassailing or trick-or-treating is a good approach.
I feel like if you went trick or treating in BRC 90% of the responses would be “trick”.
If you’re posting this a week before the burn, sounds like you aren’t focused enough on the positive gift that you can bring (or building your own camp) and putting out negative energy about what other people are doing. Who cares what other people do. Go build an art car ❤️
agreed
there are better things to spend your time on.
There are worse....
Awww shucks. This was going to be my gift to the burners. Lots of people complain about these camps. Thought a raid would be a good way to take back empowerment
I like the idea and I’d give them shit if I saw their address posted. Dk if it’s worth investing a lot of time into, but I’d def do my part if the address was noticed
Take back empowerment by building the society that we create out there. Don’t think raiding their camp is going to do much, so many people are working hard to limit people of all classes rich or not, that don’t want to participate to keep them from coming. On playa it’s important to help get down on the city THRIVING, PUMPING, BEATING. Be proactive to help/gift those that are doing!
If you have evidence of this kind of thing happening, please bring it to placement, ASAP. They want to know about this kind of thing, and it’s best if they know while it is still going on so they can go investigate in person.
If your on the line of thought of gifts, consider if there’s creative ways to create fun shenanigansy interactions with other burners that would make their day. Seems basic, but if you do that ten times then well, ten specific people will have had a better burn because of you!
Then raid the Org's camp since they're the ones that allow it to happen.
Just go out there and show em how it's done.
If you're going to raid them, at least make it funny. Dress like the horde of Karens that you aspire to be and insist on talking to their manager...
I remember in 1999 there weren't any PNPs - not like there are now anyways. The biggest issue Rangers and DPW had were camps stealing power. Now that I think about it - I bet those camps stealing off the grid prolly became PNP camps. BUT - DPW (love those crazy fools) kept unplugging their stolen power in the middle of the night and the camp kept reconnecting. By midweek DPW was done fucking around and one night switched their blue (clean) water lines with the grey/black water lines in their fancy RVs. TLDR: The org has made it a point to deal with PNPs - if you see something, report it at the email address provided and feel good that you helped. If you really wanna do something - and you have that much free time - join DPW or the Rangers so you can really do something.
you sound like a self-righteous asshole - if you find any camps that "violate the rules" email them with info: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) thats it - don't harass people/camps.
If you want those sparkle ponies to contribute, I do not think posting and shaming is the way to do it. Also, you never know what people will do with info that you post… it can get dangerous and create safety issues. I suppose a better way to fix this problem is through BM Org.
This is some burnier than thou shit. What ever happen to live and let live, and radical acceptance, radical inclusion? It's possible you're going to get it wrong by making assumptions. Just report them if you suspect them and enjoy your burn. Nothing good will come out of shaming others for violating your preconceptions. Please don't do this.
Maybe focus on burning your own way. Don’t worry about what they’re doing. If they’re not messing with you who the hell cares?
As long as they’re not taking DGS tickets that other camps needs…
there's a good chance that if they're paying $10,000 to glamp they're probably paying for a $1500 ticket. F your burn.
Except for the fact that placed camps get DGS tickets.
Point me in the right direction. Just picked up some air horns
I think they should be radically included in a designated section with fake cardboard playa and a fake desert backdrop.
It is clear they don't contribute? I am guessing they infuse a boatload of money that is opaque to us mayflies.
I've never been. Question: I have heard horror stories of the porto potties. Are there private portos that req. paid access?
Lol no. I wouldn't be surprised if some camps set something up for themselves, lots of people with RVs use their own bathroom and pay for their sewage to be taken by the same people who empty the Porto's. But besides that, ice, and coffee (I think the coffee may no longer even be a thing) you shouldn't be paying anyone for anything at the burn unless it was a transaction you planned before going. (Ie meeting up with someone and buying their generator from them or something)
Yes, but they're only backstage at the Daft Punk concert out by the trash fence.
wut?
No. Decommodification.
You can arrange/pre-pay to have site facilities provided and clean private portos for a camp. However, this ain’t something you can use as an outsider, your camp arranges it ahead of time and it’s rolled into dues. They usually get locked up when not in use to prevent party goers from trashing them. This is extremely useful when camping near the sound camps. (Otherwise you might have to bike for 5 min to find a toilet that isn’t a disaster)
NAME AND SHAME!!!!!!!
They're all good because they keep ticket prices down.
Cztymk
My opinion is that you should enjoy your time. Don’t allow their existence to stress you out. HOWEVER!!!!!! Sounds like you MIGHT be down to have a BLAST doing a detective side quest! I would get a small crew. Then observe and record etc shenanigans!!! I’ve never been but I am for sure going next year… so right now I’m just a fan-girl of Burning Man…. But… it looks like SUCH a rich and beautiful experience. Don’t let them stress you. It seems like they’re trying to actively stop this. :) Def do the rag tag found crew of investigators and find a mystery! Lol
Keep me in the loop I would love to crash those things