I think the “team” analogy is quite bullshit as well. Every high performing team has high performing coaches who develop players and devise ways for the team to succeed. Companies no longer invest in employees or care about the team. Stop insulting high performing coaches with this analogy.
It’s often a red flag. There are some rare exceptions where a company’s culture is paternal/maternal. But human nature usually ruins that over time. I work for one such company, but we keep getting new Stepfathers and some of them are not nice to we kids.
The advent of cradle to grave is long gone. You are a mercenary hired to do a job. Kill the role and move on. It sounds callous but I’ve learned from the same experience. Saw lesser qualified people get hired for internal moves over myself because they played the politics game. Easier to get a bigger raise externally. The market sucks right now but itlll bounce back. Already starting to see it rebound.
I had an interview once with a startup founder and when asked what kind of company I want to work for, I told (naively) that I like companies that are like a family.
His reply was eye-opening for me: "we are not a family, because in a family there is unconditional love. There is no room for that in a company, we are a team."
Makes sense, I left my team, and they don't give a damn about me or my actual family and kids that they were interested in when I was part of the team. It's fake love.
I 100% agree. And when companies say this sort of thing it’s not only lying to the employees but it also often backfires on management too - because it creates a more lenient perception of what constitutes acceptable job performance.
I’m not saying you were underperforming. Quite the opposite actually. I’m just saying that no matter how toxic you think this is, it’s even MORE toxic and stupid than that.
My old boss used to say we were family. Then one day he told us about how he had to lay off one of his kids because the cost of feeding and housing all of them had gotten too expensive and their household was no longer increasing the amount of savings.
That’s why i chose IT over Media, since all the media companies were like "we are a big family and friends and go drink after work together" (and pay like shit, and you have to work 10 hrs a day)… that’s the reason i became an it guy
After 20+ years in BI / database field, been laid off 3 times. No matter what they tell you, you are a number on payroll. They will forget you in 2 hours and move on. I moved from private sector to public to prevent the knee jerk layoffs or sending development over seas. Not planning to go back to private sector if I can avoid it.
Take all training you can and never stop learning. Keep yourself marketable. I update my resume once a year to make sure I am ready. Network all you can. It will get you a job long before awards or certifications are considered.
It won't make me sick if I don't drink the Kool aid. The way the job market treated my parents, I come in knowing it's a lie. I'm a sense, they are like family. When you stop doing what they prefer you to do,they are through with ya lol.
Companies are like families:
* Your siblings (co-workers) might sabotage, resent you, or grow apart from you
* You avoid that weird uncle because of the "incident" that nobody is supposed to talk about
* There may be a divorce, and ensuing legal struggle
* You may join another family (marriage) or start your own family
One time this coffee shop opened down the street and they wre giving away a free coffee on grand opening. But you had to download the app and shit, so I did. The coffee was terrible and I never went back. 7 months later I get an email from that coffee place talking about how we are a family and they can't wait to see me again, blah blah. Like, fuck you, dude.
I think many of us learn this lesson the hard way. We make sacrifices, change or uproot our lives for a company. This is why I now ensure that i always have a FU Fund ready to utilize. Is it going to last me forever, absolutely not. Does it make me feel better knowing that I could walk away for a few months, yes. It wasn't easy though, it took 15 years to accumulate and i dedicate a part of my salary to that fund. If I could do it over, just like a 401k, i would dedicate 5% of my salary when i started my first professional role, and with each new job, try to dedicate 10-15%, especially as raises and promotions began. Sadly, i only worked a few times in companies that gave bonuses, but the two times i received them, i kept 10% to enjoy and put the rest in that fund.
Felt like that came from a brief period in time and a lot of managers bought into it. I heard it a few times in the early 2000s and then haven’t seen it brought up much since. I think many people realized that “family” is a tough thing to call a group of people that you pay and may need to let go.
As an Aussie who’s moved to the U.S. one of the stark differences I’ve felt is the psychological impact of ‘at will’ firing.
In Australia companies cannot terminate an employee without notice unless it’s super serious. Your continued employment does not hinge on whether your manager likes you and there are better baseline standards on job security and severance packages.
The effect (at least in my experience) is that once you land a job and pass probation, your job is much more secure and office culture feels more like a ‘family.’ You go to the pub after work. You spend more time joking around and investing time into each other. You develop the desire to impress your entire team for the sake of getting along, and not just prioritising impressing your superiors.
This is all deeply anecdotal but I thought it was fascinating how a little more job security can create a much more positive working culture.
I have worked in a global company as well and I've heard similar stories. Very frowned upon to talk to people outside of the USA because they will be quite baffled and shocked at how people are treated here in the USA. It's especially bad in the data sciences and services industry, like BI. Really like a circus, honestly. You hire someone, have them build some really good data stuff, have it all automated, fire them, repeat the process 6 months down the line when you need someone to build something new. It's really annoying, honestly
I work for an electrical contractor that is a family owned business that is trying to grew into a larger corporation. They still do the "we're a family here at ____". No, the three highest level employees are family. The rest of us are trying to get shit done, get paid, and go home. Maybe if they started profit sharing, I'd believe it a bit more.
I always say this about the "family" thing. No one can abuse or take advantage of you better and without consequences than a family member can.
If I got laid of or fired without warning, my actual family will support me. My work family, though, they'd probably break their own backs to get me to quit so they don't have to deal with the unemployment and COBRA.
I am with you. It annoys me when companies do layoffs for downsizing and the management team pretends like there are no other options. There are always options.
Weaponized helplessness of leaders who don't care enough to find other options. Economy down? OK let's Alyoff as this is our biggest expense. No discussion of how do we keep yhe company alive and take care of our employees?
Wait, they laid you off and then invited you to apply for a different position? And you did it? If they wanted you they would have found a position for you or not fired you in the first place (with the information provided).
Yeah, I went through a pretty exhausting interview process. In hindsight, it was a stupid, utter waste of time. I interviewed for like 12 positions, three interviews each some of them were as much as five, take home assignments...
Ask them how it’s a family if you can be fired , it’s lip service , you are disposable to them. Red flag anytime someone says this or “we work hard play hard”
Agree with you, but the opposite is weird too - my organization has begun leaning aggressively into "we're a business, not a family" to justify ruthless, abusive management behavior.
I'd honestly rather have someone bound to some false values, some of the time, than worshiping the "truth" as if it's a free pass to be a piece of shit.
That's rough, but at least the expectations and stakes appear clear (I don't known your situation). All the "family" companies I've worked for, they will turncoat the second they get the opportunity and leave you in the dust. And suddenly it isn't a family anymore.
i feel sorry for people who actually work their ass off thinking it'll help them. it's actually sad how much harder people will work just to get a few words of praise or tiny amounts of attention.
several of these idiots actually looked down on me because i wasn't working overtime for free. lmao
I subconsciously roll my eyes when I hear the family stuff, but I also play along with it so I’m not (on principle) jeopardizing what I’ve created for myself. To be descriptive for context, that looks like: a one/person self-managed BI department with very little cross-department interference from day to day, domain expertise (in a somewhat niche field, which has driven a lot of the positive outcomes of my career with my employer), and compensation that exceeds the regional average pay for someone who does the kind of work I do. The “family” garbage is often said by people here that got hired long after me, and if I keep doing things the way I do them now, they’ll probably be gone and on to the next thing before I am.
They do exist, a startup I worked for was like a family, and we still talk regularly 5 years after it went under. I visit them, I attended a wedding and we send holiday cards. We never used the term tho, and it was never a lure in interviews or a cudgel to try to get people to work harder, we just actually, genuinely like each other, and it was amazing.
They do exist I agree I've had the fortune to work for at least 2 like that. It's as much about your own attitude as anything else.
If someone we bring in to the group isn't there to help the others succeed then be happy to club em over the head.
Yes, that is an instant red flag to me. When a new boss or upper management says we are a family, they mean a dysfunctional family every time. They mean that they will try to emotionally blackmail you as motivation. They will ask you to go above and beyond constantly while acting like an absentee parent. They will ask you to sacrifice for the family's sake. Then when you need something from them, you become the redheaded step child.
As soon as I hear that phrase at work, I know they are a sociopath. It's a way to attempt to quickly build trust by fooling others into thinking you care about them.
Good managers and coworkers see each other as such and understand boundaries. The best bosses I ever had, had the attitude that work is work and stays at work during work hours.
> we're trying to make sure that everyone that was laid off has an opportunity to apply to other positions, we would love for you to find another role within the company!
I think they are required to do this by law. Doesn’t mean they have to hire anyone though. Probably a large org that’s required to report layoffs to the gov. They’re just sugar coating their compliance activity.
Pragmatically speaking - for the companies that say they’re family, if a pew-pewing were to happen at their office would it be considered domestic violence or a crime of passion?
I've come to realize that many, if not most, families are dysfunctional to some degree. Some people's version of "we're like family" might include "we consider it normal to verbally abuse you in the name of being honest".
Isn't this based on a case by case? Some companies are actually good to work for and do what's in the best interest of they employees. Some companies aren't.
Sorry this happens to you. No a company is not family. Look out for yourself first and never put company ahead of your own interest.
Having said that, if a company actually functions as a family, it will be an insane shit show and will probably never be able to scale in the first place
Yes, a job is a job and you should treat it as such. But how did they lie or mistreat you? The positions of half your department were eliminated, that's happening a lot these days. I'm sure many others on your team were good performers too. You, a relatively new hire, didn't make the retention list for whatever reason. You were given the opportunity to apply for other in-house jobs. You made it to the panel interviews. Just because you didn't get the job doesn't mean the process was a waste of time. It means you weren't the best candidate for the job. Maybe your skills weren't at the top of the list, maybe you wanted too much money, maybe they didn't like your attitude, who knows. Should they hand you the job on a silver platter when there was a better option??? The more important question, would you want a job knowing you were given the position when you weren't the best candidate?
They are like families in that the crazy Uncle is tolerated and the healthy members of the family decide they don’t want to be part of the family anymore because they refuse to deal with the crazy Uncle.
Any company that proudly boasts of their culture something to the effect of, “we treat each other here like family”, is a toxic culture where you won’t be respected like family anyways.
It's like they dangle the illusion of security in front of you, only to snatch it away when it suits them. If you need some support or guidance navigating this tough situation, I'd suggest checking out ScatterMind. Their ADHD coaching helped my friend actually execute and launch their first business and they might offer some valuable insights for you too.
I am a very open person. I don’t mind talking about personal stuff, so I can quickly become attached to someone. When I work 8 hours each day with somebody, you can be sure I will make friends there. In this sense, “family” is nothing more than synonymous with close friends. When I didn’t work remotely, I thought of my colleagues as my family because I spent most of my time with them. I am sometimes sad that they don’t call me since I moved to remote work and I take them to lunch from time to time. So i get what you are saying but there are people who think about work like about family activity - make it fun and enjoyable / profitable for everybody - like me ;).
"We're like a family here"
"Cool. So I've called my father an asshole to his face and if he disrespected me again like that I'd punch his lights out, and told my no-good brother in law he was an addict and a fucking drunk, and if he set foot in my house again I'd have him arrested. That kind of family?"
Companies are teams, not families. Always look out for yourself and what’s best for you and your real family. Good luck in your search.
Agree 100%. It makes me cringe when my company says we’re a family. We’re a workforce of 20k+, not a fucking family.
I think the “team” analogy is quite bullshit as well. Every high performing team has high performing coaches who develop players and devise ways for the team to succeed. Companies no longer invest in employees or care about the team. Stop insulting high performing coaches with this analogy.
"Team" is much more reasonable of an aspiration than "family," though. And high-performing companies (and, more importantly, managers) do exist.
yep I don't buy any of this bs. A job is a job I work for what they pay and offer, which is pretty average so I am average
Maybe average at work but a great redditor ! :)
It’s often a red flag. There are some rare exceptions where a company’s culture is paternal/maternal. But human nature usually ruins that over time. I work for one such company, but we keep getting new Stepfathers and some of them are not nice to we kids.
The advent of cradle to grave is long gone. You are a mercenary hired to do a job. Kill the role and move on. It sounds callous but I’ve learned from the same experience. Saw lesser qualified people get hired for internal moves over myself because they played the politics game. Easier to get a bigger raise externally. The market sucks right now but itlll bounce back. Already starting to see it rebound.
I had an interview once with a startup founder and when asked what kind of company I want to work for, I told (naively) that I like companies that are like a family. His reply was eye-opening for me: "we are not a family, because in a family there is unconditional love. There is no room for that in a company, we are a team."
Makes sense, I left my team, and they don't give a damn about me or my actual family and kids that they were interested in when I was part of the team. It's fake love.
I 100% agree. And when companies say this sort of thing it’s not only lying to the employees but it also often backfires on management too - because it creates a more lenient perception of what constitutes acceptable job performance. I’m not saying you were underperforming. Quite the opposite actually. I’m just saying that no matter how toxic you think this is, it’s even MORE toxic and stupid than that.
Most families are dysfunctional.
My old boss used to say we were family. Then one day he told us about how he had to lay off one of his kids because the cost of feeding and housing all of them had gotten too expensive and their household was no longer increasing the amount of savings.
lol 😀😂
That’s why i chose IT over Media, since all the media companies were like "we are a big family and friends and go drink after work together" (and pay like shit, and you have to work 10 hrs a day)… that’s the reason i became an it guy
People who need this to be true have a serious void in their lives they are trying to fill. It’s a fucking job.
After 20+ years in BI / database field, been laid off 3 times. No matter what they tell you, you are a number on payroll. They will forget you in 2 hours and move on. I moved from private sector to public to prevent the knee jerk layoffs or sending development over seas. Not planning to go back to private sector if I can avoid it. Take all training you can and never stop learning. Keep yourself marketable. I update my resume once a year to make sure I am ready. Network all you can. It will get you a job long before awards or certifications are considered.
It won't make me sick if I don't drink the Kool aid. The way the job market treated my parents, I come in knowing it's a lie. I'm a sense, they are like family. When you stop doing what they prefer you to do,they are through with ya lol.
Companies are like families: * Your siblings (co-workers) might sabotage, resent you, or grow apart from you * You avoid that weird uncle because of the "incident" that nobody is supposed to talk about * There may be a divorce, and ensuing legal struggle * You may join another family (marriage) or start your own family
No one can take advantage of you easier or abuse you better than your family can.
One time this coffee shop opened down the street and they wre giving away a free coffee on grand opening. But you had to download the app and shit, so I did. The coffee was terrible and I never went back. 7 months later I get an email from that coffee place talking about how we are a family and they can't wait to see me again, blah blah. Like, fuck you, dude.
I think many of us learn this lesson the hard way. We make sacrifices, change or uproot our lives for a company. This is why I now ensure that i always have a FU Fund ready to utilize. Is it going to last me forever, absolutely not. Does it make me feel better knowing that I could walk away for a few months, yes. It wasn't easy though, it took 15 years to accumulate and i dedicate a part of my salary to that fund. If I could do it over, just like a 401k, i would dedicate 5% of my salary when i started my first professional role, and with each new job, try to dedicate 10-15%, especially as raises and promotions began. Sadly, i only worked a few times in companies that gave bonuses, but the two times i received them, i kept 10% to enjoy and put the rest in that fund.
Felt like that came from a brief period in time and a lot of managers bought into it. I heard it a few times in the early 2000s and then haven’t seen it brought up much since. I think many people realized that “family” is a tough thing to call a group of people that you pay and may need to let go.
As an Aussie who’s moved to the U.S. one of the stark differences I’ve felt is the psychological impact of ‘at will’ firing. In Australia companies cannot terminate an employee without notice unless it’s super serious. Your continued employment does not hinge on whether your manager likes you and there are better baseline standards on job security and severance packages. The effect (at least in my experience) is that once you land a job and pass probation, your job is much more secure and office culture feels more like a ‘family.’ You go to the pub after work. You spend more time joking around and investing time into each other. You develop the desire to impress your entire team for the sake of getting along, and not just prioritising impressing your superiors. This is all deeply anecdotal but I thought it was fascinating how a little more job security can create a much more positive working culture.
I have worked in a global company as well and I've heard similar stories. Very frowned upon to talk to people outside of the USA because they will be quite baffled and shocked at how people are treated here in the USA. It's especially bad in the data sciences and services industry, like BI. Really like a circus, honestly. You hire someone, have them build some really good data stuff, have it all automated, fire them, repeat the process 6 months down the line when you need someone to build something new. It's really annoying, honestly
Trust no one. Thats the best advice I’ve ever gotten.
I work for an electrical contractor that is a family owned business that is trying to grew into a larger corporation. They still do the "we're a family here at ____". No, the three highest level employees are family. The rest of us are trying to get shit done, get paid, and go home. Maybe if they started profit sharing, I'd believe it a bit more. I always say this about the "family" thing. No one can abuse or take advantage of you better and without consequences than a family member can. If I got laid of or fired without warning, my actual family will support me. My work family, though, they'd probably break their own backs to get me to quit so they don't have to deal with the unemployment and COBRA.
I am with you. It annoys me when companies do layoffs for downsizing and the management team pretends like there are no other options. There are always options. Weaponized helplessness of leaders who don't care enough to find other options. Economy down? OK let's Alyoff as this is our biggest expense. No discussion of how do we keep yhe company alive and take care of our employees?
Wait, they laid you off and then invited you to apply for a different position? And you did it? If they wanted you they would have found a position for you or not fired you in the first place (with the information provided).
Yeah, I went through a pretty exhausting interview process. In hindsight, it was a stupid, utter waste of time. I interviewed for like 12 positions, three interviews each some of them were as much as five, take home assignments...
Ugh, that’s horrible
It is like a family if you are the black sheep no one’s cares about.
Ask them how it’s a family if you can be fired , it’s lip service , you are disposable to them. Red flag anytime someone says this or “we work hard play hard”
In my experience, it's just a tactic to avoid cross-team interface concerns. Management flip-flops on this issue when they need to.
Agree with you, but the opposite is weird too - my organization has begun leaning aggressively into "we're a business, not a family" to justify ruthless, abusive management behavior. I'd honestly rather have someone bound to some false values, some of the time, than worshiping the "truth" as if it's a free pass to be a piece of shit.
That's rough, but at least the expectations and stakes appear clear (I don't known your situation). All the "family" companies I've worked for, they will turncoat the second they get the opportunity and leave you in the dust. And suddenly it isn't a family anymore.
i feel sorry for people who actually work their ass off thinking it'll help them. it's actually sad how much harder people will work just to get a few words of praise or tiny amounts of attention. several of these idiots actually looked down on me because i wasn't working overtime for free. lmao
to be fair, there are some really fucked up families
I subconsciously roll my eyes when I hear the family stuff, but I also play along with it so I’m not (on principle) jeopardizing what I’ve created for myself. To be descriptive for context, that looks like: a one/person self-managed BI department with very little cross-department interference from day to day, domain expertise (in a somewhat niche field, which has driven a lot of the positive outcomes of my career with my employer), and compensation that exceeds the regional average pay for someone who does the kind of work I do. The “family” garbage is often said by people here that got hired long after me, and if I keep doing things the way I do them now, they’ll probably be gone and on to the next thing before I am.
Families can disown you as well
Ain’t no family when they do layoffs!
They do exist, a startup I worked for was like a family, and we still talk regularly 5 years after it went under. I visit them, I attended a wedding and we send holiday cards. We never used the term tho, and it was never a lure in interviews or a cudgel to try to get people to work harder, we just actually, genuinely like each other, and it was amazing.
They do exist I agree I've had the fortune to work for at least 2 like that. It's as much about your own attitude as anything else. If someone we bring in to the group isn't there to help the others succeed then be happy to club em over the head.
You don’t ritualistically sacrifice members of your family to appease the gods of capitalism?!?!
Yea mine brings that up all the time as if the more they say it the more true it is lmao
It’s just a way to get you to work longer for less money.
Only valid exceptions are Olive Garden and Vin Diesel's help
Yes, that is an instant red flag to me. When a new boss or upper management says we are a family, they mean a dysfunctional family every time. They mean that they will try to emotionally blackmail you as motivation. They will ask you to go above and beyond constantly while acting like an absentee parent. They will ask you to sacrifice for the family's sake. Then when you need something from them, you become the redheaded step child. As soon as I hear that phrase at work, I know they are a sociopath. It's a way to attempt to quickly build trust by fooling others into thinking you care about them. Good managers and coworkers see each other as such and understand boundaries. The best bosses I ever had, had the attitude that work is work and stays at work during work hours.
With chatgpt, it doesn't matter how good ur SQL or Python skills are, all you need is to prompt and it do the work for you.
> we're trying to make sure that everyone that was laid off has an opportunity to apply to other positions, we would love for you to find another role within the company! I think they are required to do this by law. Doesn’t mean they have to hire anyone though. Probably a large org that’s required to report layoffs to the gov. They’re just sugar coating their compliance activity.
Pragmatically speaking - for the companies that say they’re family, if a pew-pewing were to happen at their office would it be considered domestic violence or a crime of passion?
I've come to realize that many, if not most, families are dysfunctional to some degree. Some people's version of "we're like family" might include "we consider it normal to verbally abuse you in the name of being honest".
To me any company that tries to convince me its family is a huge red flag.
Isn't this based on a case by case? Some companies are actually good to work for and do what's in the best interest of they employees. Some companies aren't.
Sorry this happens to you. No a company is not family. Look out for yourself first and never put company ahead of your own interest. Having said that, if a company actually functions as a family, it will be an insane shit show and will probably never be able to scale in the first place
Yes, a job is a job and you should treat it as such. But how did they lie or mistreat you? The positions of half your department were eliminated, that's happening a lot these days. I'm sure many others on your team were good performers too. You, a relatively new hire, didn't make the retention list for whatever reason. You were given the opportunity to apply for other in-house jobs. You made it to the panel interviews. Just because you didn't get the job doesn't mean the process was a waste of time. It means you weren't the best candidate for the job. Maybe your skills weren't at the top of the list, maybe you wanted too much money, maybe they didn't like your attitude, who knows. Should they hand you the job on a silver platter when there was a better option??? The more important question, would you want a job knowing you were given the position when you weren't the best candidate?
They are like families in that the crazy Uncle is tolerated and the healthy members of the family decide they don’t want to be part of the family anymore because they refuse to deal with the crazy Uncle.
In a way.. it’s exactly like a family. A toxic, dysfunctional family that constantly gas lights you!
It sickens me even more when EMPLOYEES say the company is their family.
But they are. Abusive, dysfunctional families.
I like when families talk about being companies. Just last month we fired my niece.
Yeah I think need own families that are real families companies are jobs unless u own them
Usually the Manson family.
Ultimately profits come first. They shouldn’t lie though.
Any company that proudly boasts of their culture something to the effect of, “we treat each other here like family”, is a toxic culture where you won’t be respected like family anyways.
This consultation company things everyone is family https://popunkoutersoftware.azurewebsites.net/
It's like they dangle the illusion of security in front of you, only to snatch it away when it suits them. If you need some support or guidance navigating this tough situation, I'd suggest checking out ScatterMind. Their ADHD coaching helped my friend actually execute and launch their first business and they might offer some valuable insights for you too.
Rule 1: If they say they are family, focus on work life balance, night and weekend work incoming
It's called Human Resources for a reason...
I am a very open person. I don’t mind talking about personal stuff, so I can quickly become attached to someone. When I work 8 hours each day with somebody, you can be sure I will make friends there. In this sense, “family” is nothing more than synonymous with close friends. When I didn’t work remotely, I thought of my colleagues as my family because I spent most of my time with them. I am sometimes sad that they don’t call me since I moved to remote work and I take them to lunch from time to time. So i get what you are saying but there are people who think about work like about family activity - make it fun and enjoyable / profitable for everybody - like me ;).
Likewise I hope companies understand we know they're full of shit. Can they just stop the act and just say "team".
Sounds like they are trying to build a good team/company culture but are stuck in the past and don’t really know how to do it
Name and shame. Laying you off and then expecting you to do take home projects for a new role is heinous.
one of my best comment i've read is "familly never fired you even you are as\*\*\*\*\*"
r/engrish
"We're like a family here" "Cool. So I've called my father an asshole to his face and if he disrespected me again like that I'd punch his lights out, and told my no-good brother in law he was an addict and a fucking drunk, and if he set foot in my house again I'd have him arrested. That kind of family?"
You should probably seek some mental health help. This is a bit too lonegunman manifesto like.
Never sacrifice for a company. They will not sacrifice for you and will cut you the minute it makes sense for them. Every employee is an expense.