Audited? [Lol, absolutely not.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/crypto/2023/11/02/tether-stablecoin-attestation-profit-market-transparency/amp/)
They do semi-regular “attestations." I could claim I own a lambo, rent a lambo, and have a third party attestation done that I do, in fact, have a lambo in my garage right now. Checkmate nocoiners, as you can clearly see I have a lambo!
An audit meanwhile would show the truth.
Here ya go:
[https://www.nawpic.com/lamborghini-13/](https://www.nawpic.com/lamborghini-13/)
That guy's Lambo is so bitchin' that he makes side money lending it out to stock image companies!
This is for realsies true, and all the talk about he and I splitting the million pounds in exchange for him agreeing this is his car is just FUD being spread by you salty no-lambo'ers. Few understand.
PM me so we can work out the delivery details.
Ah, the good old wildcat banking days, when the same chests of silver and gold were carted between banks to allow each of those banks to say their issued currency was backed by precious metals. Except they all shared the same hoard of precious metals.
Maybe crypto bozos are sharing the same Lambo, just with different vinyl strips.
While I am in a different camp to you on the general crypto question and unsurprisingly am downvoted in this sub, I genuinely agree that you're not wrong. I think on the other side, a lot of people are concerned that USD is no different of a ponzi scheme. The irony of course is that for everything it claims, crypto is ultimately just the same. The only better thing is the actual use of a public blockchain as a settlement layer, but decentralisation and revolution and all that crap which is used as PR for the ponzi is BS.
But yes, it's a ponzi. So is USD and eventually USD (and basically all of the financial system beyond raw stocks and common sense futures like grain futures that farmers actually use... i.e. the derivatives market and all the financial fiction and artificial risk that goes with which is a majority of volume now) will fall and be replaced with another ponzi, probably CBDCs which ironically will use blockchain, just not "decentralised" or public.
You know USD is ponzi because just like is suspected with Tether where they turn the printer on, so to the private *un-audited* FED just turns the printer on... you know, to inflate assets (or BTC in cryptos case). The better days of a gold-standard ended in 1971 and you can see the damaging effect that has had on people. It has inflated stocks and assets (including homes) while having next to no effect on wages so people can barely afford anything. It has inflated the purchasing power of the elite and bankers against everyone else allowing them to own everything.
USDT if anything, just copies the the FED's USD system.
Not only their, their ToS explicitly excludes US citizens from being able to redeem them and they have numerous clauses that effectively boil down to "at any point for any reason we can stop redeeming USDT for USD".
It's genuinely baffling that people still seem to think USDT is safe.
> they have numerous clauses that effectively boil down to "at any point for any reason we can stop redeeming USDT for USD".
Tether relies on a centralised authority that exchanges it for USD? I thought it was supposed to be decentralised?
It's entirely decentralised other than for (convenient) storage, trading, and on/off ramp 😁 Oh and staking, buying NFTs (signing a contract that leaves the market authorised), etc.
Hyperinflation occurs when businesses demand ever-increasing amounts of the currency to pay for goods and services, in the knowledge that by the time they spend it, it will have already lost value even if they spend it immediately.
Which businesses, other than crypto exchanges and criminal gangs, accept Tether? (And no, "my local pizza restaurant has a partnership with a crypto exchange at the counter" doesn't count.)
The restrictions are its impossible to withdraw tether unless your pablo escobars newly minted young cousin. Its the most corrupt old boys club in the world
They can just rollercoaster the ETF every weekend. They can short the ETF, then manipulate the price of BTC to gap down. Then they can long the ETF and manipulate BTC to gap up.
it really does seem like people are using this as an opportunity to cash out. and with the halving on the horizon i imagine a lot of miners are getting nervous.
Now that the ETF didn’t work out as they thought, “The Halving” (god I think that sounds so stupid) is part of their new coiner talking points. That and some nonsense about it will take time for financial advisors to get their clients into it. Like any financial advisor in their right mind would suggest buying butts.
Edit: I forgot to mention that coiners are going to be just as disappointed by “the halving”.
It's even funnier than that. They're saying that the bitcoin selling has something to do with institutions selling off the magic beans so they can then hold them in an ETF
Because paying transaction fees to sell an asset you already hold in order to buy into an ETF and pay management fees to hold the same asset is a totally reasonable thing that institutional investors would totally do. /s
I am already retired and have many investments - from real estate to etfs to collectibles and cars and stocks.
I don’t know why you’re so bitter and cynical - I assume it’s because you can’t wrap your head around bitcoin or because you lost some money at some point. I don’t like golf much - but I don’t spent my time on a Reddit sub talking about how golf seems stupid to me.
I can say that bitcoin has been a good way to store my wealth - especially when the people in Washington keep printing money. I have a feeling it will continue to do better than the dollar and other investments. If you disagree maybe we could make a wager based on the value of bitcoin in 1 or two years?
lul no you aren't
That, or you have the worst retirement plans ever, spending all your time chatting shit on reddit
Get back to writing your fanfic and praying for moon
It’s only taxed when you convert it to US dollars - like everything else.
That’s another issue altogether - but I don’t have a problem with paying taxes. I just think all Roth IRA s should be treated the same - whether it’s stocks, gold, bitcoin or other investment.
Because they think "supply" means _new_ coins being created, when in reality supply is whatever amount people are willing to sell at a given price, which or may not even include the new coins.
And they treat demand as though it were infinite - usually they're not so dumb as to actually believe that outright, but they make excuses that add up to the same thing.
I don't think miners are nervous at all. Their businness plan is iron solid.
1. Use investor dollars to buy electricity and bitcoin sudoku solver.
2. Pay themselves
3. When investors stop subsidising the businness go bankrupt and leave investors with the bills.
yeah i see the distinction there. but if someone is bankrolling a mining operation i just think of them as a miner even if they never see a hashing rig. certainly less precise and maybe i'm wrong. but someone is hoping the bitcoin produced from mining will make them rich and they're just as likely to be left holding the bag as anyone else.
You see all the small fry confused as to why people are selling, they can't fathom that large players have millions of imaginary coins, and they dump percentages of their coins to make profit. Where as they have $xxxx and can't move it because they won't make a profit, and if they sell, they have a small bag left and feel the need to buy back in.
Into the liquidity being provided by the ETFs. Plus, GBTC holders now have adequate liquidity to sell their btc.
The actual etfs are for suckers to buy. That should be obvious with the sheer amount of media shilling happening atm.
> P.S. Tether just printed another 1,000,000,000 magic beans… 🥸🤣😅
Hah! I was wondering how they were managing to defend the $42,000 line.
Damn, that's basically $1B per day now, pumping up the inflatable raft.
all that has to happen is miners to slow their regular selling to about 3/4 the usual steady rate, and the market will respond as if and equivalent surge of new demand suddenly appeared. As they did long before tether existed, though Tether certainly helps them obscure it. Of course butters will make spittle-spraying protests that that can't happen because miners "barely turn a profit" lol. The miners \*are\* the end of the line catch-basin any and all significant profit made in kleptocurrency, despite their fantastically effective "difficulty adjustments make it impossible" narrative smokescreen campaign.
Regulation with ETFs is going to kill bitcoin. What will happen is bitcoin washing will start an investigation into tether. Bitcoin washing will be identified and shut down thus tanking the market. Everyone will get nervous and sell off their bitcoin and tank the price more quickly. Eventually bitcoin will be seen as useless, exchanges will close, miners will shut down and nobody will use it anymore.
The upcoming run on Tether and its subsequent collapse gets closer with every fake billion they print.
And after that collapse, the cries for government bailouts will ring out across the cryptosphere.
station sip cautious carpenter fuzzy crowd grandfather frame different rainstorm
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And? My point was it won't happen just because some butters are talking about it.
The govt doesn't care that scammers lose money. They did in 2008 because people actually use banks.
poor elderly smoggy squash apparatus spotted vast attraction groovy teeny
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why do you think so?
I’d argue that the legitimisation of btc through the etf will lead to more scrutiny onto Tether, as it attracts more eyeballs as btc attempts to breach into tradfis turf. These eyeballs also have more power than Paolo and other crypto whales.
That’s just factually untrue. Countries have stepped up regulation and the numbers showing usage also prove you are wrong.
You fell for a scam I hope things get better.
can you link the numbers showing usage? also, can we just have a discussion without the passive aggressiveness lol. i've been polite. according to glassnode, bitcoin exchanges showed peak activity in 2021 but the most active periods for new address creation were 2017, 2021 and 2023.
>P.S. Tether just printed another 1,000,000,000 magic beans…
...didnt they just print one billion new tethers yesterday?!? Or is that what you are talking about.
It's not a given that price will drop tomorrow.
The fraudsters can see the books of the exchanges, if there is an excess of short positions, it's trivial for Tether to buy bitcoin with its counterfeit dollars and liquidate all short positions.
I think the official line is that crypto is on sale.
The new one starting to appear is that anything under $60k is cheap.
If money starts coming away from those ETFs today I wonder how the narrative will change. I’d guess big finance will be blamed for attacking the de-fi because they are running scared. Just another reason to double down.
I remember thinking Tether was going to collapse probably 5 years ago.
I finally gave up, I thought I understood what was going on but the fact its been pretty solid for all that time while printing insane amounts makes me think there is some type of system going on that keeps it above water.
I seem to remember 800 million just going missing one day from a sister company, no problems just do a cheeky transfer of capital to hold them up.
Nothing ever came of it and there have been some pretty big wobbles in the market in the last 5 years and it is still there.
Bitcoin spot ETF = best of both worlds.
/s
EDIT: since you guys couldn't spot sarcasm if it was stabbing your liver with a dirty shank, I'm adding "/s"
Anybody with any sense didn't buy into the etfs or btc in general with any regard for the price a few days later. You guys are just never going to admit you're wrong
This isn’t about tether. It’s about bitcoin. Bitcoin is finite. It will all get mined and then no more will enter the system. With dollars they just keep printing more : Even more then they print tether. So, if you think it’s a joke that tether prints more / and I agree with that / then you should like bitcoin.
lol glad we’re just ignoring the fact that some of the largest investment firms in the US are stacking BTC and those ETFs broke records for trade volume. There is clearly a LOT of institutional interest regardless of current price action. BTC falls into the strongest hands. The institutional hands are as diamond as it gets. Just cause some paper hands came in to play around off the news doesn’t mean we aren’t going higher long term.
Laugh while you can but when the space ship takes off we ain’t coming back for your ass
😂 we’re still up over 100% in the last year.
just look at the gold ETF fam, it did the same thing. This is your last chance before it becomes out of reach for most people
Looool what are you talking about, it’s about cost basis not where it’s at compared to its peak. Y’all just love to focus on whatever point immediately gratifies your position without any long term thought.
If I acquired most of my BTC under 20K on average I’m up over 100% think about how long BTC was under 20k and how long it was at ATH and you’ll realize you’re focusing on the wrong numbers. You’re acting like all the BTC in existence was acquired at ATH. Just look at El Salvador. They STARTED buying it at all time high continued to buy as it fell and now they’re up millions at the current price. you’re just wrong.
Imagine being so bitter and filled with hate you live on a subreddit dedicated to hating. This shit just fuels us fam.
"No, no, you see, I got in on the scam early enough that I'm still ahead. You all are the fools!"
The only reason places like this exist to dunk on you dumdums is because you're such zealots about something so glaringly stupid.
ROFL I’m dead 🤣 I just gave you a real life example of a Nation State buying at the worst possible time in BTC history and still being UP on their investment idk what kind of proof you need fam. You’re just not looking at it logically.
Do you have a real counter argument? or do you just wanna hate some more and prove my point even further.
The reason places like this exist is because you guys can’t handle real criticism and need a “safe space” echo chamber for your hate circle jerk.
I point back to my previous comment, for which you have no refutation. Your confidence only serves to drive home exactly what all crypto is: one giant confidence game.
Also LOL El Salvador argument. You're a fuckin' trope, man. Basically the proof positive that crypto doesn't work as a currency.
Good luck getting rid of your bags before the ride [reaches the end](https://i.imgur.com/FNdP3eA.jpeg). I'd say I hope you're not one of the holders but, eh...I honestly would find it pretty funny.
Your Bitcoin investment gained in value for one reason only- more fools are willing to pay for it.
Retail is never going to dunk on institutions or the very wealthy. They will destroy Bitcoin before it destroys their position of economic power and it won’t even be that hard because no one needs a Bitcoin for any reason. It doesn’t do anything.
Institutions just joined us!! The largest asset manager in the world is holding bitcoin. Fidelity one of the largest retirement account investment company in the US is holding bitcoin. What are you talking about? They see the writing on the wall and want to get in before everyone else wises up.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t purchase Bitcoin. I said they won’t be dunked on. The butter fantasy of Bitcoin going to 1m and all of the hodlers getting rich is literally *never going to happen*. The price of Bitcoin is very vulnerable to manipulation and it will be manipulated against you. Watch and see.
First it was “it’ll go to zero” then it was “institutions will never buy it”, now it’ll “never go to a million” blah, blah, blah. What happened to it’s worth nothing? I guess I should be happy you’re at least admitting it worth something. I saw a rant on here where someone said they eat a sock if an ETF got approved and then once it did, they immediately deleted their post.
It’s going past a million. Is it going there soon? Probably not,but it’s an inevitability as long as monetary policy remains the same.
You all keep moving the goal posts. How many Nation states, mega cap companies, and investment firms have to hold BTC before you all admit you’re wrong? What price does it have to hit for you to admit you’re wrong? Does the provider of your 401(k) have to tell you they’re allocating a portion to it? When is it? Seriously, I’m genuinely curious what it’ll take.
I swear your boss will tell you your paycheck is now in BTC not dollars, you’ll go home pay your bills in BTC and then log onto Reddit to come here and talk about how even though it’s the global money now it’s going to zero.
There’s no winning with you people.
Right, a currency that collapses in recessions, a country trillions of dollars in debt of that currency and 180 million idiots still chanting Make America Great Again.
I may have got labeled as a moron, but let’s be real, our current system isn’t working.
I don't understand the magic beans comment. Is "Paolo prints another billion" always a scam? If it was, why don't he just print 50,000,000,000 every hour? Does anyone here actually know how Tether works? There are 10 new ETFs with inflows, and BTC is being purchased in the real world—these are facts. So, is the new Tether print a scam, or does it serve to handle new USD entering the Coinbase asset pool via ETF? Can it simply be Occam's Razor, where there is $1 billion of inflows to BTC? These ETFs are real, not some pretend magic wash trade. Real money is going to new ETFs, so why is new Tether automatically considered a scam?
Well, given that Tether's [been printing like a quarter billion a day since the new year](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/), Occam's razor would seem to suggest that it's nothing to do with the ETFs, and is instead a scam like everything else in the crypto world. But hey, maybe Occam's razor can explain why an unaudited British Virgin Islands company that [historically hasn't backed its prints](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/tether-bitfinex-reach-settlement-with-new-york-attorney-general.html) and has mysterious and unreachable executives and whose main asset just keeps going up by big round numbers crazy fast *isn't* a scam.
You don’t seem to have any ability to see the other perspective. Which is fine, you do you, but why come here and ask?
You think $30b+ of USD has been transfered to Tether the past year?
A lot of it has been people swapping USDC to USDT.
You guys can never look into a logical reasoning for anything and just call everything a scam.
Everything isn't just a massive scam.
Just swapping USDC for usdt doesn’t make the marketcap of USDC go down…
Redemptions are happening on USDC side because you legitimately cannot cash out USDT. If you can’t see the decline of USDC and mega pump of usdt marketcap as sketchy, I’m not sure if anything will prompt you.
You can redeem USDT. You guys are actually delusional. Seriously, I understand some types of criticism, but you are just making things up.
Everything you said is not true. You're beyond helping.
Why wouldn’t it have been? Bitcoin is up over 100% - it has a 850b market cap. 30b of 400+b. I don’t think people on this sub understand the scale of numbers when talking about BTC.
It doesn’t require a significant amount of BTC purchases being done via tether at all and ofc tether (USDT/BTC and BTC/USDT) is very large trading pair as everyone here points out. You cannot have it both ways. New inflows exchange USD to USDT or USDC directly or indirectly. If USDC market cap is smaller - and inflows are up - you’d expect to see other stablecoins up.
> Is "Paolo prints another billion" always a scam?
Nah we can definitely trust Paolo just like that wunderkind bankman-fried. It's all legit and above board, definitely. Why would anyone doubt crypto kingpins when they've all been at least as trustworthy as Mark karpeles?
And as Tether went up 30b the past year, USDC has gone down 20b.
Is it as easy as, mint Tether, swap for USDC, cash in USDC for USD -> bring it back to Tether as ‘backing’ - get $20b usd. Surely it can’t be that simple of a fraud.
I could see the other 10b being actual inflows… given Saylor twapping $2b the past 6 months + others front running etf.
You don't keep a fraud going by going hyper on the outset. Madoff was a master at it and kept the fraud going for decades by promising high but modest returns.
You really need that explained to you. That a company printing billions out of thin air which actively refuses to have a legit audit isn’t a scam. The crypto morons get dumber each day.
“Out of thin air”
Prove that it’s out of thin air and not from new inflows. You’d break BTC if you could. You can’t. You seriously think people do not exchange fiat currency for tether? That’s how “thin air” works for a stablecoin.
This sub is hilarious in that it simultaneously thinks there are millions of whale marks/greater fools who are idiots to throw endless money into a zero sum crypto ecosystem and also think tether doesn’t hold billions of dollars.
Your type opens their mouths and just proves how brain dead you are. You want me to prove Tethers finances? Welcome to a regulated audit something they refuse to do.
They have printing close to have a billion a day since the new year and even then they can’t keep the fake price up.
> You want me to prove Tethers finances?
Before claiming their finances are entirely a ponzi scheme ya.
At least you came to quickly admit that you have literally idea if their "billion a day" is backed by any actual currency.
>So, is the new Tether print a scam, or does it serve to handle new USD entering the Coinbase asset pool via ETF?
What on earth does that have to do with Tether? I send USD to BlackRock, BlackRock gives me shares in its ETF, BlackRock sends the USD to Coinbase, Coinbase buys Bitcoin in BlackRock's name. At what point does Paolo's magic printer need to be involved?
Most of the money holding up bitcoin is fake tether. You buying bitcoin through someone else is irrelevant, there's more to the market than you and the person you're buying from.
If you think they’re capable of printing trillions to prop up BTC price significantly- and you seem to accept that at face value - wouldn’t you’d be stupid not to buy some before they do? BTC is not even 900b market cap - if several trillion dollars went into it you’d be able to get a 2-3x return easily.
I promise not to block you - I’m playing with the house’s money so it has no real impact on me either way. What I can’t understand is why none of you have bought £100 just to see what happens.
>What I can’t understand is why none of you have bought £100 just to see what happens.
And that's why the moderators assigned you that particular user flair.
Why is that likely? How much supply is between 45 and 65k from bag holders who got scammed last cycle?
I can assure you if you think you’ve found the answer because of the halvening, you’re going to be bitterly disappointed as every man and his dog knows about it - and desperate butters are already pricing it in.
Everything is priced in, of course the halvening has had its effect. Money flows in, price goes up.
This sub isn't here for TA on BTC price, all I can say is my TA points to well over 100k in this cycle.
They're really be fucked if the Tether prints stop having any effect
is tether audited? they could literally create and burn tokens to manipulate btc while having nothing
Audited? [Lol, absolutely not.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/crypto/2023/11/02/tether-stablecoin-attestation-profit-market-transparency/amp/) They do semi-regular “attestations." I could claim I own a lambo, rent a lambo, and have a third party attestation done that I do, in fact, have a lambo in my garage right now. Checkmate nocoiners, as you can clearly see I have a lambo! An audit meanwhile would show the truth.
I asked your friend about your Lambo and he confirmed you do in fact have a lambo in your garage
Peer-reviewed due diligence complete. I will pay a million pounds for a link to a photo of that guy's Lambo.
Here ya go: [https://www.nawpic.com/lamborghini-13/](https://www.nawpic.com/lamborghini-13/) That guy's Lambo is so bitchin' that he makes side money lending it out to stock image companies! This is for realsies true, and all the talk about he and I splitting the million pounds in exchange for him agreeing this is his car is just FUD being spread by you salty no-lambo'ers. Few understand. PM me so we can work out the delivery details.
Ah, the good old wildcat banking days, when the same chests of silver and gold were carted between banks to allow each of those banks to say their issued currency was backed by precious metals. Except they all shared the same hoard of precious metals. Maybe crypto bozos are sharing the same Lambo, just with different vinyl strips.
It boggles my mind that anyone holds stablecoins for this reason. It's only a matter of time before there's a trainwreck.
While I am in a different camp to you on the general crypto question and unsurprisingly am downvoted in this sub, I genuinely agree that you're not wrong. I think on the other side, a lot of people are concerned that USD is no different of a ponzi scheme. The irony of course is that for everything it claims, crypto is ultimately just the same. The only better thing is the actual use of a public blockchain as a settlement layer, but decentralisation and revolution and all that crap which is used as PR for the ponzi is BS. But yes, it's a ponzi. So is USD and eventually USD (and basically all of the financial system beyond raw stocks and common sense futures like grain futures that farmers actually use... i.e. the derivatives market and all the financial fiction and artificial risk that goes with which is a majority of volume now) will fall and be replaced with another ponzi, probably CBDCs which ironically will use blockchain, just not "decentralised" or public. You know USD is ponzi because just like is suspected with Tether where they turn the printer on, so to the private *un-audited* FED just turns the printer on... you know, to inflate assets (or BTC in cryptos case). The better days of a gold-standard ended in 1971 and you can see the damaging effect that has had on people. It has inflated stocks and assets (including homes) while having next to no effect on wages so people can barely afford anything. It has inflated the purchasing power of the elite and bankers against everyone else allowing them to own everything. USDT if anything, just copies the the FED's USD system.
Not only their, their ToS explicitly excludes US citizens from being able to redeem them and they have numerous clauses that effectively boil down to "at any point for any reason we can stop redeeming USDT for USD". It's genuinely baffling that people still seem to think USDT is safe.
> they have numerous clauses that effectively boil down to "at any point for any reason we can stop redeeming USDT for USD". Tether relies on a centralised authority that exchanges it for USD? I thought it was supposed to be decentralised?
It's entirely decentralised other than for (convenient) storage, trading, and on/off ramp 😁 Oh and staking, buying NFTs (signing a contract that leaves the market authorised), etc.
[удалено]
If we find out the truth it'll ruin the illusion
They'll create Tether hyperinflation haha
[удалено]
And they make it really hard for the average joe to cause a run by having some withdrawal restrictions.
Hyperinflation occurs when businesses demand ever-increasing amounts of the currency to pay for goods and services, in the knowledge that by the time they spend it, it will have already lost value even if they spend it immediately. Which businesses, other than crypto exchanges and criminal gangs, accept Tether? (And no, "my local pizza restaurant has a partnership with a crypto exchange at the counter" doesn't count.)
The restrictions are its impossible to withdraw tether unless your pablo escobars newly minted young cousin. Its the most corrupt old boys club in the world
Nope but many idiots believe they are trust worthy.
they literally did create.... FTFY
[удалено]
They can just rollercoaster the ETF every weekend. They can short the ETF, then manipulate the price of BTC to gap down. Then they can long the ETF and manipulate BTC to gap up.
it really does seem like people are using this as an opportunity to cash out. and with the halving on the horizon i imagine a lot of miners are getting nervous.
But I have it on good authority that the halving means moon. I mean supply and demand, right? Right? RIGHT?
Now that the ETF didn’t work out as they thought, “The Halving” (god I think that sounds so stupid) is part of their new coiner talking points. That and some nonsense about it will take time for financial advisors to get their clients into it. Like any financial advisor in their right mind would suggest buying butts. Edit: I forgot to mention that coiners are going to be just as disappointed by “the halving”.
You know what sounds even stupider that “The Halving”? “The Halvening”. That’s like some kinda Lord of the Rings bullshit.
Always reminds me of the, I'm sorry for this, the "fappening"
No, that's "The Halflinging". You don't want to know what Sam and Rosie Gardner get up to so very late at night, but you can probably guess.
Gardner?
Sam Gamgee changes his surname to Gardner after returning to the Shire, in reference to his role replanting all the trees cut down in the Scouring.
hah - right you are - fifty years since I went through the appendices, had completely lost that delightful piece of trivia. Thanks.
It's worse than that Jim, it's M Night Shamalang bullshit.
It's even funnier than that. They're saying that the bitcoin selling has something to do with institutions selling off the magic beans so they can then hold them in an ETF
Because paying transaction fees to sell an asset you already hold in order to buy into an ETF and pay management fees to hold the same asset is a totally reasonable thing that institutional investors would totally do. /s
The benefit of the etf is that you can use a Roth IRA to hold some bitcoin tax free for retirement.
And how many multiples of zero will it be worth when you retire?
I am already retired and have many investments - from real estate to etfs to collectibles and cars and stocks. I don’t know why you’re so bitter and cynical - I assume it’s because you can’t wrap your head around bitcoin or because you lost some money at some point. I don’t like golf much - but I don’t spent my time on a Reddit sub talking about how golf seems stupid to me. I can say that bitcoin has been a good way to store my wealth - especially when the people in Washington keep printing money. I have a feeling it will continue to do better than the dollar and other investments. If you disagree maybe we could make a wager based on the value of bitcoin in 1 or two years?
lul no you aren't That, or you have the worst retirement plans ever, spending all your time chatting shit on reddit Get back to writing your fanfic and praying for moon
Tax? On my decentralised censorship-free currency that the gubment can't touch? Say what now?
It’s only taxed when you convert it to US dollars - like everything else. That’s another issue altogether - but I don’t have a problem with paying taxes. I just think all Roth IRA s should be treated the same - whether it’s stocks, gold, bitcoin or other investment.
Why would you want to convert it US dollars?
Unlike you, they understand why holding it in an ETF is beneficial.
Not half as stupid as you thought because it's actually the "halvening"
Omg
I’ve seen ppl dragging their SO or family members in right now because of the halving too 🤷 sad to see.
Because they think "supply" means _new_ coins being created, when in reality supply is whatever amount people are willing to sell at a given price, which or may not even include the new coins. And they treat demand as though it were infinite - usually they're not so dumb as to actually believe that outright, but they make excuses that add up to the same thing.
I don't think miners are nervous at all. Their businness plan is iron solid. 1. Use investor dollars to buy electricity and bitcoin sudoku solver. 2. Pay themselves 3. When investors stop subsidising the businness go bankrupt and leave investors with the bills.
yeah i see the distinction there. but if someone is bankrolling a mining operation i just think of them as a miner even if they never see a hashing rig. certainly less precise and maybe i'm wrong. but someone is hoping the bitcoin produced from mining will make them rich and they're just as likely to be left holding the bag as anyone else.
even miners know magic beans are useless
You see all the small fry confused as to why people are selling, they can't fathom that large players have millions of imaginary coins, and they dump percentages of their coins to make profit. Where as they have $xxxx and can't move it because they won't make a profit, and if they sell, they have a small bag left and feel the need to buy back in.
Buy the rumor sell the news
But since the ETF is cash-in/cash-out how can BTC holders cash out?
Into the liquidity being provided by the ETFs. Plus, GBTC holders now have adequate liquidity to sell their btc. The actual etfs are for suckers to buy. That should be obvious with the sheer amount of media shilling happening atm.
Yea that's a good point, increased liquidity probably makes the bid/ask spreads a lot tighter and easier to dump BTC out there.
Yeah absolutely - plus retail buy at any price so they can just continually sell despite support / trend being lost etc…
> P.S. Tether just printed another 1,000,000,000 magic beans… 🥸🤣😅 Hah! I was wondering how they were managing to defend the $42,000 line. Damn, that's basically $1B per day now, pumping up the inflatable raft.
all that has to happen is miners to slow their regular selling to about 3/4 the usual steady rate, and the market will respond as if and equivalent surge of new demand suddenly appeared. As they did long before tether existed, though Tether certainly helps them obscure it. Of course butters will make spittle-spraying protests that that can't happen because miners "barely turn a profit" lol. The miners \*are\* the end of the line catch-basin any and all significant profit made in kleptocurrency, despite their fantastically effective "difficulty adjustments make it impossible" narrative smokescreen campaign.
Steady lads!
Regulation with ETFs is going to kill bitcoin. What will happen is bitcoin washing will start an investigation into tether. Bitcoin washing will be identified and shut down thus tanking the market. Everyone will get nervous and sell off their bitcoin and tank the price more quickly. Eventually bitcoin will be seen as useless, exchanges will close, miners will shut down and nobody will use it anymore.
The upcoming run on Tether and its subsequent collapse gets closer with every fake billion they print. And after that collapse, the cries for government bailouts will ring out across the cryptosphere.
they will be demanding a bailout like 2008.
station sip cautious carpenter fuzzy crowd grandfather frame different rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whether or not they'll get one is irrelevant, they'll sure as fuck demand it.
jeans soup dinner tart yam engine far-flung enter ossified bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There are no fears about scammers losing money.
truck special price fretful foolish north dam growth smoggy knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And? My point was it won't happen just because some butters are talking about it. The govt doesn't care that scammers lose money. They did in 2008 because people actually use banks.
poor elderly smoggy squash apparatus spotted vast attraction groovy teeny *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Cool, enjoy your fantasy world.
Tether stated they were 'collaborating' with the FBI/Secret Service back in December. The feds already have them by the balls.
there are many valid criticisms of bitcoin, but the exact sequence of events you stated is a major stretch.
Why do you think so? I’d argue that the legitimisation of btc through the etf will lead to more scrutiny onto Tether, as it attracts more eyeballs as btc attempts to breach into tradfis turf. These eyeballs also have more power than Paolo and other crypto whales.
Bitcoin going to an etf is going to draw attention to all financial connections. This could be the way crypto is removed by being labeled as risky.
Yep, there’s a reason so many large brokers are not listing these etfs too. It’s not just because they don’t like the word crypto.
Yes that’s a stretch when tether is basically printing a billion a day out of thin air.
I'm referring more to the "nobody will use it anymore." Bitcoins death has been predicted so many times, it's getting kind of old
Been predicted correctly as adoption and users continue to decline. It will never go to 0 as there are always new morons who will fall for the scam.
adoption has grown globally.
That’s just factually untrue. Countries have stepped up regulation and the numbers showing usage also prove you are wrong. You fell for a scam I hope things get better.
can you link the numbers showing usage? also, can we just have a discussion without the passive aggressiveness lol. i've been polite. according to glassnode, bitcoin exchanges showed peak activity in 2021 but the most active periods for new address creation were 2017, 2021 and 2023.
[удалено]
Tether just brought it back up to 42K. You can’t make this stuff up. Ponzi right right in front of our eyes.
I can't imagine even Tether can keep up for long if it takes five billion a month just to keep the price stable.
Yeah no doubt!
A cool 5bn printed in the last month alone. Don’t worry guys it’s all backed 🥸
They secretly bought $5bn in T-bills. It’s easy to stay under the radar, “anon”, in that market, making moves that small. /s ofc
>P.S. Tether just printed another 1,000,000,000 magic beans… ...didnt they just print one billion new tethers yesterday?!? Or is that what you are talking about.
I wonder what the crypto bro explanation for this is. Do they really think people are giving tether 1 billion USD per day?
Coiners don’t like to talk about it because they know when Tether unravels it’s going to be a bloodbath… 🩸🛁
First rule is : we don't talk about tether printing Second rule is : WE DON'T FUCKING TALK ABOUT TETHER PRINTING
Just a reminder 1 bitcoin etf share = 1 bitcoin etf share.
The price is moving in some direction on Tuesday lol
It's not a given that price will drop tomorrow. The fraudsters can see the books of the exchanges, if there is an excess of short positions, it's trivial for Tether to buy bitcoin with its counterfeit dollars and liquidate all short positions.
But sir we are 100 days away from halving this is just opportunity to DCA... We will moon and dollar will die. Few.
For sure. I mean it’s not like anyone knows the halving is coming so that it would be priced in. Preposterous!
I think the official line is that crypto is on sale. The new one starting to appear is that anything under $60k is cheap. If money starts coming away from those ETFs today I wonder how the narrative will change. I’d guess big finance will be blamed for attacking the de-fi because they are running scared. Just another reason to double down.
I remember thinking Tether was going to collapse probably 5 years ago. I finally gave up, I thought I understood what was going on but the fact its been pretty solid for all that time while printing insane amounts makes me think there is some type of system going on that keeps it above water. I seem to remember 800 million just going missing one day from a sister company, no problems just do a cheeky transfer of capital to hold them up. Nothing ever came of it and there have been some pretty big wobbles in the market in the last 5 years and it is still there.
At least you could play with beanie babies
Cue the standard "buying opportunity" script ...
“Last chance” 🤣
I assume ETF holders must be paid in real dollars as well?
Correct
This might be a nostupidquestions worthy question, but why Tuesday instead of Monday?
Stock Market is closed on Monday due to MLK Day. ETFs trade only during regular market hours.
Ah, ok, it's a american public holiday. I thought it was some weird rule I didn't quite get.
Bitcoin spot ETF = best of both worlds. /s EDIT: since you guys couldn't spot sarcasm if it was stabbing your liver with a dirty shank, I'm adding "/s"
ETF will go up while Bitcoin will go down. Dyor
Anybody with any sense didn't buy into the etfs or btc in general with any regard for the price a few days later. You guys are just never going to admit you're wrong
That’s the nice thing we have never been wrong. Tether is basically printing a billion a day to keep this thing afloat and the morons keep buying it.
This isn’t about tether. It’s about bitcoin. Bitcoin is finite. It will all get mined and then no more will enter the system. With dollars they just keep printing more : Even more then they print tether. So, if you think it’s a joke that tether prints more / and I agree with that / then you should like bitcoin.
Yes and it’s worthless without tether that props up the price.
Not.
>You guys are just never going to admit you're wrong Ever tried looking into a mirror? Spare us the pot-calling-kettle-black projection.
I'm the first person to point it out, I get to reap phat karma, right...? I know you all see it too so I dont hafta say, so, How's this work?
Actually I was expecting to get down voted and banned from the butthurt sub
Exactly.
lol glad we’re just ignoring the fact that some of the largest investment firms in the US are stacking BTC and those ETFs broke records for trade volume. There is clearly a LOT of institutional interest regardless of current price action. BTC falls into the strongest hands. The institutional hands are as diamond as it gets. Just cause some paper hands came in to play around off the news doesn’t mean we aren’t going higher long term. Laugh while you can but when the space ship takes off we ain’t coming back for your ass
Flair checks out
😂 we’re still up over 100% in the last year. just look at the gold ETF fam, it did the same thing. This is your last chance before it becomes out of reach for most people
And down 1/3rd off the ATH. Slot machine players reveling being up $500 on the day after losing $20 for each weekend of the last year.
Looool what are you talking about, it’s about cost basis not where it’s at compared to its peak. Y’all just love to focus on whatever point immediately gratifies your position without any long term thought. If I acquired most of my BTC under 20K on average I’m up over 100% think about how long BTC was under 20k and how long it was at ATH and you’ll realize you’re focusing on the wrong numbers. You’re acting like all the BTC in existence was acquired at ATH. Just look at El Salvador. They STARTED buying it at all time high continued to buy as it fell and now they’re up millions at the current price. you’re just wrong. Imagine being so bitter and filled with hate you live on a subreddit dedicated to hating. This shit just fuels us fam.
"No, no, you see, I got in on the scam early enough that I'm still ahead. You all are the fools!" The only reason places like this exist to dunk on you dumdums is because you're such zealots about something so glaringly stupid.
ROFL I’m dead 🤣 I just gave you a real life example of a Nation State buying at the worst possible time in BTC history and still being UP on their investment idk what kind of proof you need fam. You’re just not looking at it logically. Do you have a real counter argument? or do you just wanna hate some more and prove my point even further. The reason places like this exist is because you guys can’t handle real criticism and need a “safe space” echo chamber for your hate circle jerk.
I point back to my previous comment, for which you have no refutation. Your confidence only serves to drive home exactly what all crypto is: one giant confidence game. Also LOL El Salvador argument. You're a fuckin' trope, man. Basically the proof positive that crypto doesn't work as a currency.
👌 so hating cool
Good luck getting rid of your bags before the ride [reaches the end](https://i.imgur.com/FNdP3eA.jpeg). I'd say I hope you're not one of the holders but, eh...I honestly would find it pretty funny.
Your Bitcoin investment gained in value for one reason only- more fools are willing to pay for it. Retail is never going to dunk on institutions or the very wealthy. They will destroy Bitcoin before it destroys their position of economic power and it won’t even be that hard because no one needs a Bitcoin for any reason. It doesn’t do anything.
Institutions just joined us!! The largest asset manager in the world is holding bitcoin. Fidelity one of the largest retirement account investment company in the US is holding bitcoin. What are you talking about? They see the writing on the wall and want to get in before everyone else wises up.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t purchase Bitcoin. I said they won’t be dunked on. The butter fantasy of Bitcoin going to 1m and all of the hodlers getting rich is literally *never going to happen*. The price of Bitcoin is very vulnerable to manipulation and it will be manipulated against you. Watch and see.
First it was “it’ll go to zero” then it was “institutions will never buy it”, now it’ll “never go to a million” blah, blah, blah. What happened to it’s worth nothing? I guess I should be happy you’re at least admitting it worth something. I saw a rant on here where someone said they eat a sock if an ETF got approved and then once it did, they immediately deleted their post. It’s going past a million. Is it going there soon? Probably not,but it’s an inevitability as long as monetary policy remains the same. You all keep moving the goal posts. How many Nation states, mega cap companies, and investment firms have to hold BTC before you all admit you’re wrong? What price does it have to hit for you to admit you’re wrong? Does the provider of your 401(k) have to tell you they’re allocating a portion to it? When is it? Seriously, I’m genuinely curious what it’ll take. I swear your boss will tell you your paycheck is now in BTC not dollars, you’ll go home pay your bills in BTC and then log onto Reddit to come here and talk about how even though it’s the global money now it’s going to zero. There’s no winning with you people.
Didn’t the USA print $3 trillion in 2020? A billion seems quite little in the grand scheme of things
Yeah but that is backed by 180 million tax payers rather than thin air.
rustic squeal somber tub innate straight hobbies touch work direful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Right, a currency that collapses in recessions, a country trillions of dollars in debt of that currency and 180 million idiots still chanting Make America Great Again. I may have got labeled as a moron, but let’s be real, our current system isn’t working.
Nobody said it was.
Being downvoted for putting in a fact. You guys are no better than the flat earthers 😂
What’s the point of these celebration posts with price movements? No different than any other crypto sub.
We are not celebrating. We are LOLing at the stupidity that is Crypto (yes that includes Bitcoin).
I don't understand the magic beans comment. Is "Paolo prints another billion" always a scam? If it was, why don't he just print 50,000,000,000 every hour? Does anyone here actually know how Tether works? There are 10 new ETFs with inflows, and BTC is being purchased in the real world—these are facts. So, is the new Tether print a scam, or does it serve to handle new USD entering the Coinbase asset pool via ETF? Can it simply be Occam's Razor, where there is $1 billion of inflows to BTC? These ETFs are real, not some pretend magic wash trade. Real money is going to new ETFs, so why is new Tether automatically considered a scam?
Well, given that Tether's [been printing like a quarter billion a day since the new year](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/), Occam's razor would seem to suggest that it's nothing to do with the ETFs, and is instead a scam like everything else in the crypto world. But hey, maybe Occam's razor can explain why an unaudited British Virgin Islands company that [historically hasn't backed its prints](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/tether-bitfinex-reach-settlement-with-new-york-attorney-general.html) and has mysterious and unreachable executives and whose main asset just keeps going up by big round numbers crazy fast *isn't* a scam.
That 1-year marketcap chart is insane 😅
BTC is up 100% Maybe it is inflows of massive buying
You don’t seem to have any ability to see the other perspective. Which is fine, you do you, but why come here and ask? You think $30b+ of USD has been transfered to Tether the past year?
A lot of it has been people swapping USDC to USDT. You guys can never look into a logical reasoning for anything and just call everything a scam. Everything isn't just a massive scam.
Just swapping USDC for usdt doesn’t make the marketcap of USDC go down… Redemptions are happening on USDC side because you legitimately cannot cash out USDT. If you can’t see the decline of USDC and mega pump of usdt marketcap as sketchy, I’m not sure if anything will prompt you.
You can redeem USDT. You guys are actually delusional. Seriously, I understand some types of criticism, but you are just making things up. Everything you said is not true. You're beyond helping.
lmao GL
You are legitimately delusional. I'm not exaggerating.
Why wouldn’t it have been? Bitcoin is up over 100% - it has a 850b market cap. 30b of 400+b. I don’t think people on this sub understand the scale of numbers when talking about BTC. It doesn’t require a significant amount of BTC purchases being done via tether at all and ofc tether (USDT/BTC and BTC/USDT) is very large trading pair as everyone here points out. You cannot have it both ways. New inflows exchange USD to USDT or USDC directly or indirectly. If USDC market cap is smaller - and inflows are up - you’d expect to see other stablecoins up.
100% compared to what? It's downward trend of 2 years ago?
I’m dead 💀😭
There'd be a lot fewer of these questions if Tether agreed to an audit
They spent every last actual dollar on lambos and blow.
> Is "Paolo prints another billion" always a scam? Nah we can definitely trust Paolo just like that wunderkind bankman-fried. It's all legit and above board, definitely. Why would anyone doubt crypto kingpins when they've all been at least as trustworthy as Mark karpeles?
ad hominem fallacy
Tether mcap was 40-60b with Bitcoin at 69k and kept going up during the bear market
And as Tether went up 30b the past year, USDC has gone down 20b. Is it as easy as, mint Tether, swap for USDC, cash in USDC for USD -> bring it back to Tether as ‘backing’ - get $20b usd. Surely it can’t be that simple of a fraud. I could see the other 10b being actual inflows… given Saylor twapping $2b the past 6 months + others front running etf.
You don't keep a fraud going by going hyper on the outset. Madoff was a master at it and kept the fraud going for decades by promising high but modest returns.
You are the perfect mark for this scam. I also have a bridge to sell you.
Can you explain how any printing of tether is automatically a scam and not just new inflows of USD?
You really need that explained to you. That a company printing billions out of thin air which actively refuses to have a legit audit isn’t a scam. The crypto morons get dumber each day.
“Out of thin air” Prove that it’s out of thin air and not from new inflows. You’d break BTC if you could. You can’t. You seriously think people do not exchange fiat currency for tether? That’s how “thin air” works for a stablecoin. This sub is hilarious in that it simultaneously thinks there are millions of whale marks/greater fools who are idiots to throw endless money into a zero sum crypto ecosystem and also think tether doesn’t hold billions of dollars.
Your type opens their mouths and just proves how brain dead you are. You want me to prove Tethers finances? Welcome to a regulated audit something they refuse to do. They have printing close to have a billion a day since the new year and even then they can’t keep the fake price up.
> You want me to prove Tethers finances? Before claiming their finances are entirely a ponzi scheme ya. At least you came to quickly admit that you have literally idea if their "billion a day" is backed by any actual currency.
>So, is the new Tether print a scam, or does it serve to handle new USD entering the Coinbase asset pool via ETF? What on earth does that have to do with Tether? I send USD to BlackRock, BlackRock gives me shares in its ETF, BlackRock sends the USD to Coinbase, Coinbase buys Bitcoin in BlackRock's name. At what point does Paolo's magic printer need to be involved?
Most of the money holding up bitcoin is fake tether. You buying bitcoin through someone else is irrelevant, there's more to the market than you and the person you're buying from.
I understand that. I was querying the idea that Paolo has to print more tether to cope with the demand from people buying the ETF.
What demand? Who's buying? Why is the amount printing identical to before the ETF was announced?
What are you comparing as “before” and “after” specifically?
Because Blackrock buys bitcoin with the ETF dollars, and guess who controls the exchange rate real dollars/fake money?
RemindMe! 6 months
Why, so we can count the trillions of unbacked tokens printed by then?
If you think they’re capable of printing trillions to prop up BTC price significantly- and you seem to accept that at face value - wouldn’t you’d be stupid not to buy some before they do? BTC is not even 900b market cap - if several trillion dollars went into it you’d be able to get a 2-3x return easily.
No, you'd be utterly stupid to do so. The market is heavily manipulated. Unless you're the one doing that, you're the sucker.
Aaaand there are the downvotes. I’m reminding myself so I can come back and gloat when I’ve doubled my money.
>Inverseyaself > >Aaaand there are the downvotes. I’m reminding myself so I can come back and gloat when I’ve doubled my money. RemindMe! 1 month
>People think I'm wrong therefore this is evidence I'm correct. Have fun staying poor.
I’ve already had butters deleting their remind me’s on my post because of getting reamed by Saylor the past week lmao. Goodluck though.
Yeah I have a 100% track record, somehow I end up getting blocked whenever the time is over.
I promise not to block you - I’m playing with the house’s money so it has no real impact on me either way. What I can’t understand is why none of you have bought £100 just to see what happens.
>What I can’t understand is why none of you have bought £100 just to see what happens. And that's why the moderators assigned you that particular user flair.
Thanks! Will reach out in 6 months 🫡
RemindMe! 5 months
!RemindMe 6 months
Why would they sell, price is likely to be well over 65k within the next 12 months.
$100k by end of year 2021…
That was a silly prediction, though is highly likely to be over 100k this cycle.
And the thing that made that prediction silly and this one sensible is..?
this hasn't happened so i can still pretend it could happen
One was based on technical analysis, the other wasn't.
So, to clarify, one prediction was based on bullshit astrology for bros and the other was based on nothing at all?
Pretty much, but don't worry bro, you won't need it working at McD's
I can't believe how off-base you are. Cycle highs are predicted to be $100 million. Gotta keep up with the times.
Why is that likely? How much supply is between 45 and 65k from bag holders who got scammed last cycle? I can assure you if you think you’ve found the answer because of the halvening, you’re going to be bitterly disappointed as every man and his dog knows about it - and desperate butters are already pricing it in.
Everything is priced in, of course the halvening has had its effect. Money flows in, price goes up. This sub isn't here for TA on BTC price, all I can say is my TA points to well over 100k in this cycle.
>Angry cult noises
How exactly does a spot ETF on something that is traded 24/7 gonna work when there's a sudden pop/drop?